The What ifs of WWII

[saycheese]

what if enigma was never cracked? how long will the war drag on for? what if battle of britian was lost and britany was conquered in weeks/months. what if the war draged long enough for america to develop the nuke, how long will it take for germany to devlop their own nuke? what if hitler didnt make a few of the mistakes like staingrad, convertion of fighter jets or removing power from his own generals or useage of the slavs? thats just a few of the examples, and i did make the debate abit general but thats coz then we can sorta change from topic to topic which are related to the title(see above). i also only listed germany's mistakes and its beacuse its abit more well known as allied victories, feel free to list axis & allied mistakes as a whole.

[Jack Van Burace]

Actually, we really don't know enough 2 debate it in my opinion. German scientists had already discovered tobaco causes lung cancer a long time ago, and because they were Nazis their experiments were thrown away (not discussing if it is right or wrong). All german technology acquired thru experiments whith jews are beeing still reacquired today, thru reasonable methods. And just as these information was kept from public from ethical reasons, there may b a lot more we don't know of the whole war for these same causes.

[Ellegin]

What if sweden didnt get as involved as we got? specialist say that the "Neutrality" of sweden lengthen the war with 2 years

[Jack Van Burace]

What if sweden didnt get as involved as we got? specialist say that the "Neutrality" of sweden lengthen the war with 2 years
What do u mean by 'we'? And what if Sweden wasn't neutral? "Specialists" surely have no idea whatsoever of what WOULD happen, cuz it didn't. That's just a very willd guess. Not trying 2 cut your thinking or turn u down, but the fact is history is kind of a crappy useless thing. U gotta analise every new situation free from ghosts of the past, generalizations block your sight!

[AznPoi]

What if Hitler took over America O.o

[dragoneyes001]

ok here are some what if for you!

1) what if the Japanese had continued with the third wave of the attack on pearl harbor (the landing and taking of hawaii)<<<< this was actualy planned and decided against by the admiral in charge which effectively lost the war for the Japanese.
A) if the invasion had continued and the Japanese had taken Hawaii the US would have been kicked out of the pacific right at the onset of the war.
Australia would have fallen the carriers at sea would have had to run for the coast of the US for supplies making it very likely they would have been picked off on route. China would have been defeated completely and the likelyhood of the US taking back the pacific would have probably been removed completely.

B) if they went ahead and tried to take Hawaii and were driven back the covoy that had attacked pearl would have been destroyed before it could have returned to Japan greatly shortening the pacific war the carriers would have had a much better chance to target and destroy the ships which would have been in a much smaller area to search making them easy targets and the loss of resources trying to take Hawaii would open them up to attack.

2)what if Germany had attacked Russia on the original schedual?

it was sloted for early spring.

A) the blitz would have moved the germans quickly across russia pretty much crushing everything along the way the Russians would have lost months of time to build weapons and re-organise a beheaded army they would have fallen about as fast as the poles did. without the two front war Hitler would have had all his resources available to crush the British. we would speak german today and if you happen to be jewish or any other group the Germans disliked you would not exist.

B) theres really not much of a B available the biggest mistake Hitler made was his timing of the attack on Russia they had time to become just strong enough to slow him into winter months that was the only thing that saved them all the resistance they did muster was only able to work because the Germans were unprepared for harsh winter conditions.

what if the Germans had created the Nuke first?

A) "Ich bin ein Berliner" don't think old Hitler would have had any objection to useing it so the war would have shortened in their favor regardless of who he droped them on.

B) he decides not to use them and the war would have changed little till the end when he would have used it no matter what.

there are a ton of what if's where the Germans would have won the war the big ones are that briton fell, russia loses, or even if the japanese did not attack the US and the US decides to join the germans instead of the allies.

[Vampyrelord]

ok here are some what if for you!
1) what if the Japanese had continued with the third wave of the attack on pearl harbor (the landing and taking of hawaii)<<<< this was actualy planned and decided against by the admiral in charge which effectively lost the war for the Japanese.

It would have been a major setback for America if their aircraft carriers had been destroyed, but I don't think it would have cost them the war. When the Japanese lost the battle of Midway (which was the turning point in the war in the pacific, as I'm sure you already know) they had a considerable numerical advantage and more aircraft carriers...

[Jack Van Burace]

It would have been a major setback for America if their aircraft carriers had been destroyed, but I don't think it would have cost them the war. When the Japanese lost the battle of Midway (which was the turning point in the war in the pacific, as I'm sure you already know) they had a considerable numerical advantage and more aircraft carriers...
The japanese never hit anyone from behind. Americans knew the atack was going to happen, and took out of there their finest carriers in the day of the attack. Japan was surely gona do a surprise attack, but inttentionally the japanese ambassador in the states was left in a 'waiting room' for 8 hours (!) when delivering the war declamation from japanese side. So, when it was actually delivered, it was too late, ppl called (and still do) Pearl Harbor a backstab, and justified the usage of the already (secretly) concluded nuke. This was tought me by a japanese friend, and of course it will never b let out in any school in the states, as well as they'll (the japanese) never b able to say diferently after it happened the way it did.

[dragoneyes001]

It would have been a major setback for America if their aircraft carriers had been destroyed, but I don't think it would have cost them the war. When the Japanese lost the battle of Midway (which was the turning point in the war in the pacific, as I'm sure you already know) they had a considerable numerical advantage and more aircraft carriers...
the destruction of the carriers would have been irrelevant if Hawaii was taken right at the onset of the pacific war.
the US would not have been able to help australia at all (too far) so they would have fallen. that also means no Midway they would have had to attack Hawaii from about 2000 miles away coastal ports of the US and the ships of the 2nd world war would have been hard pressed to carry the battle effectively at that much distance especialy if the japanese had dumped all those planes onto pearls airports for protection over 1/3 were torpedo planes.
the american navy in the pacific was pretty much lost at pearl but a number of the ships had been salvaged and went on to make large contributions to the war if pearl had been taken that would not have happened.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c58/dragoneyes001/1942worldBpacific.jpg
you need to understand the geography involved to understand just how devastating the loss of Hawaii would have been.

[Sanpas]

What if the sky would fall down? Then we would all be wearing blue hats. :winking56
But some years ago I've been reading a nice book about this scenario, the book was called "The man in the High Castle" by Philip K. Dick. I'm citating the back of the cover now.
Philip K. Dick's acclaimed cult novel gives us a horrifying glimpse of an alternative world - one where the allies have lost the 2nd World War. In this nightmare dystopia the Nazis have taken over New York, the Japanese control California and the African continent is virtually wiped out. In a neutral bufferzone that divides the rival superpowers in America lives the author of an underground bestseller. His book offers a new vision of reality, giving hope to the disenchanted. Can other, better worlds really excist?

You should read it, I don't want to spoil anything.

[Kzimask]

What if other country didnt bully/pick on germany for ww1 inncident?
Well most of the Europian blamed german for ww1 since they teamed up with Australians. But you know, other country other than german joined. (If you dont get what I mean by that, GO AND READ ww1 Info). And hitler.. What if he was never born? lol thatd be interesting...

[dragoneyes001]

What if other country didnt bully/pick on germany for ww1 inncident?
Well most of the Europian blamed german for ww1 since they teamed up with Australians. But you know, other country other than german joined. (If you dont get what I mean by that, GO AND READ ww1 Info). And hitler.. What if he was never born? lol thatd be interesting...

if hitler had not been born the nazi organisation would still have existed.

its actually a very good chance they could have had someone else pull off the same thing for them although it would have been about a 70/30 chance against since two of the leaders were just too stupid to pull it off. but 30% is still concidered a good chance it would have all happened pretty close to what did.

[Sanzora]

I’m afraid I find this debate a little pointless… It is pointless to look at ‘What If’s, considering that the war is over and these can firstly make no difference, and secondly be endless in possibility.

[KT Samurai]

I’m afraid I find this debate a little pointless… It is pointless to look at ‘What If’s, considering that the war is over and these can firstly make no difference, and secondly be endless in possibility.

Agreed. There's no real debate here, just speculation based on past events with no real meaning or useable result.

[Deo]

It would have been a major setback for America if their aircraft carriers had been destroyed, but I don't think it would have cost them the war. When the Japanese lost the battle of Midway (which was the turning point in the war in the pacific, as I'm sure you already know) they had a considerable numerical advantage and more aircraft carriers...
its true, america had 9x the output of japan. (militarily speaking)

we still would've gone "island hopping" so the set back wouldn't have been that large.

[shadow_of_89]

Actually the Usa would have lost the entire pacific group and that would be disastrous...the pearl harbour attack was not that distructive...and during the pearl harbour attack a third wave was on the way.....if that third wave was released it would have been bye-bye for the US

[Deo]

Actually the Usa would have lost the entire pacific group and that would be disastrous...the pearl harbour attack was not that distructive...and during the pearl harbour attack a third wave was on the way.....if that third wave was released it would have been bye-bye for the US
We still had the original pacific base (the one before pearl harbor) in california.

[shadow_of_89]

What point in having the base if u don't have ships to fill it?......Most likely it was unprepared to cope with such a number of ships.....

[Raican Katarin]

Ok here goes, ww2 and especially the ww2 airwar is my hoby so if i seem like a know it all im sorry but ive done huge amounts of personal research.

1.) If the UK had lost the battle of britain it did not mean curtains for the western world. Why? Well people seem to forget that if the RAF was destroyed the UK had the greatest navy in the world and after considering the loses the german navy suffered early in the war such a huge consentration of shipping in such a small space (the channel) would literally have been easy meat for the royal navy. And even in the unlikey chance that
the germans did land on british soil people similarly forget that we had just evacuated the a whole army from france and part of the french army!

2.) Even if the USA had lost further shipping due to a third wave at pearl they still had there whole Atlantic fleet to repel a pacific invasion. Germany had no way to mount an invasion on the USA's eastern seaboard and other than convoy protection and anti u-boat patrols they could have been transfered without many problems. BUT even then as we saw in the war it was a matter of months before the USA's industrial might kicked in.

However here are some of my own questions:

1.) What if Italy had used its capable Med naval fleet against the royal navy more viciously? Rommels africa corp would have had the supplies they needed due to protection of convoys, Malta the british outpost in the med and the most bobmed place of the war may have fallen spelling disaster for the UK. It would mean possible loss of access to the suiz cannel meaning no access to the pacific other than via the US and panama. If the Italians had fought harder then things could have been very different.

2.) What if hitler would have got nukes? Who would have he struck first? I think moscow would have been hit first,the war in the east after inncial succeses went terrible for the germans eating a vast amount of there vital war materials.

If you have any questions ill do me best to answer, i dont mean to sound cocky but ww2 is my thing :D