Souls...

[Joe Black]

So, based on the topic title... the thesis question up for debate is:

"Do you believe in the existence of souls? Why or Why not?" Prove your point with either direct or indirect reasoning to how that is so. (in other words, no spamming plz)

Personally, I do believe in the existance of souls, mainly because scientists (to my knowledge), have not unvieled all the secrets of the brain, on how it actually works. (even though they have an idea of which part of the brain does what function). I also believe that a soul has to exist because of different personalities, as well as my belief in the afterlife.

Your thoughts?

[Elelith]

This is one of those questions that can never fully be answered.

It is true that an average human only uses (what is is like 4% of their brain?) So there is a high chance that somewhere in that unknown 96 (or whatever) %, there is room for a soul.

Also because of the way some humans think/act (seeing ghosts, out of body experiences and whatnot.) There is something unexplainable out there (cue X-files music,) we're just not sure what.

I intend to keep my opinions open on this subject, and not make a choice.

Anyone else?..........

[Jack Van Burace]

If your definition of soul is metaphisical I would say it exists, such as culture and any other non concrete objects. Doesn' matter if someone call it by another name, if that's how u call a part of a personality, who's to argue? But not as a phisical thing. Nope. Saying it exists because no1 proved otherwise would b the same as saying the universe was created by a potato concealed in the depths of the universe, just cuz no1 can say otherwise.
Now to debate this issue the only way I've known is to debate the source from where u got that idea. Which influences did your source have 2 think this way? Cuz I don't believe u invented this concept, right?

It is true that an average human only uses (what is is like 4% of their brain?) So there is a high chance that somewhere in that unknown 96 (or whatever) %, there is room for a soul.
Actually, this is a myth. We just don't use our whole brain AT THE SAME TIME, ok? ;-)

[Sanpas]

This is a subject that always interrested me, I cannot think of any anwsers that are sattisfying enough but there is only one anwser that is plausible enough for me to believe.

There is a substance that is present in (so far known) every lifeform, this substance, this molecule is known as ''N,N-DMT'', which stands for N,N-DiMethylTryptamine, it occurs in us as well, to be excact, it is produced in our pineal gland, a gland that is positioned precisely in the centre of our brain, but why it is there and what it is for has always been a mystery for scientists, but it has a rich metaphysical history. Descartes, for example, believed that the pineal was the "seat of the soul". And both Western and Eastern mystical traditions place our highest spiritual centre within its confines.
There is this book that I have been reading called "DMT, The Spirit Molecule" by Rick Strassman, in 1990 he has been conducting experiments on 60 volunteers who were experienced and familliar with the freebase form of DMT and plant analogues called Ayahuasca, a brew containing DMT and MAO inhibitors (to break down the DMT in the stomach) used by shamans in healing rituals.
While it is a very interesting book and worth to read, I cannot write it all down, so I'll try to explain my conclusion of his experiments in short (which I am not so good at).
DMT is released in large quantities as soon as a human is under great physical or emotional stress, such as in birth, death, near-death, psychoses, mystical experiences and alien abduction experiences, and after reading the reports and journals of these brave (or foolish) pioneers, and indeed compare those with the experiences of Christians, Muslims and whatever religious or non-religious people with the above-mentioned kind of experiences, they are strikingly identical. I myself had some mystical experiences that go deeper into this subject, but I will not speak of that now, if at all. But I do have some interesting links on these kind of things, check those out if you like:

www.deoxy.org
www.erowid.org
www.lancerules.com/terence/

enjoy!:biggrinlo

[Jack Van Burace]

Yeap, I heard the pineal gland b4. Like I said, there are many possible explanations that could open the possibility of believing in it. But saying it exists because no1 has shown otherwise, or saying something might b it just cuz no1 has shown what it does shouldn't b an argument. Of course u're right in some way, cuz tylenol for instance, no1 knows what it does inside your body, only that after u take it u stop feeling headache. Period. I won't stop using it because I don't know what it does, cuz it's never been harmfull to me. So I guess it's not so wrong to go this way, even tho I very much disagree whith u (call it a hunch, cuz it can't b called otherwise ^^).

Neway, since u're interested, there's a cult here in south america that drinks the "Chá do Santo Daime"(Tea of Saint Daime), a powerfull allucinogen. They believe that the power of catholic saints rest on plant's alcaloids, and using them for psichic purposes bring them closer 2 god. So saint Mary is in Marijuana, saint daime is in one determined plant(which I don't remember), and others. Drugs have always been heavily associated whith religion (remember that alchohol is also a drug), like Jesus turning water 2 wine, etc.. So, if u like to, google it, cuz learning about religion is a very good way of learning about mankind ^^

[Dekuben]

The soul actually exists as a connection between the brain matter in the cranium and the brain matter surrounding and embedded in the heart tissue.

Therefore the soul can be stopped from going to the after life and immotality can be achieved via intact brain stem/brain/heart transference.

[MJAY]

Thw soul has to exist because when you are brain dead you are still classified as being alive

[KT Samurai]

Thw soul has to exist because when you are brain dead you are still classified as being alive

Like a plant?

[Tokoyami]

The soul actually exists as a connection between the brain matter in the cranium and the brain matter surrounding and embedded in the heart tissue.

Therefore the soul can be stopped from going to the after life and immotality can be achieved via intact brain stem/brain/heart transference.

There is brain matter in the heart?

Where did you learn about the soul existing like that? just curious.

Thw soul has to exist because when you are brain dead you are still classified as being alive
....well......i guess........

Isnt the soul just our conciousness...?

[Buuhan1]

Well....I usually always say I believe in souls and not in ghosts...but the more I think about it the more I think if I believe in one I should the other.

How I think is that ghosts are "evil spirits" when spirits are good souls....but really is their any good or evil in the after life? Sure we get shit like souls invading a person and possessing them but how much truth do we truely know of that?

All I can say is I can't fully determine what I think about something such as the afterlife.....all I can do is imagine.

[Kurai-chan]

i do believe in souls because even I am not capable of explaining why people have this "consciousness" that some people refer to. I believe that it isn't just the brain and the heart that makes us "alive" but there is also something.. something more than that which we can't fully explain because of its complicatedness.

[Dekuben]

Seriously the heart can store memories, there was alot of research into it which was presente dina tv documentary on channel 4. I will try to find relevant information from the internet as quickly as possible.

[Draffut]

This is one of those questions that can never fully be answered.

It is true that an average human only uses (what is is like 4% of their brain?) So there is a high chance that somewhere in that unknown 96 (or whatever) %, there is room for a soul.

Also because of the way some humans think/act (seeing ghosts, out of body experiences and whatnot.) There is something unexplainable out there (cue X-files music,) we're just not sure what.

I intend to keep my opinions open on this subject, and not make a choice.

Anyone else?..........

as someone else said, that is a myth. we use our whole brain. just most of it is actually devoted to our automated functions like breathing, keeping our hearts beating, and keeping our balance while standing. You would be amazed at the thousands of calculations your brain does just to make you not fall over.

Personally, I dont belive that souls exist, atleast in this real of existance. But there is anouther plane where they reside after death.

[Ai]

True....

there is no part of your brain that you don't use unless it's dead tissue...But you can increase your capacity for knowledge by learning..:p

But i do believe that the soul does exist...I atribute this to the fact that we can trace pretty well everything in our bodies to basic atoms and molecules...

If we didn't have a soul then we are the exact same as a piece of dirt or a stone or a tree...If we except the fact that we don't have a soul then we are the same as them...

What gives you self awerness..what provides you with your knowledge of philosophy and learning capability...I believe a soul provides this..

But what happens to this soul once you die...Who knows...

[Silhouette]

i do believe in souls because even I am not capable of explaining why people have this "consciousness" that some people refer to. I believe that it isn't just the brain and the heart that makes us "alive" but there is also something.. something more than that which we can't fully explain because of its complicatedness

Ah, but the brain and heart are indeed what keeps us alive. The brain, I believe, is also our consciousness. Everyone's brain works on different wavelengths or something like that.. (There is a term or something, I think it is wavelengths..) Anyhoo, this contributes to the fact that everyone thinks differently. Without them, we wouldn't be "living", would we?

Souls, if they exist, don't keep us alive, I believe. If they do exist, they might just serve as a way for us to "exist" without a physical body. Like ghosts and spirits. I do believe in ghost, I've even had a few experiences..

But hell, I'm not a scientist, nor do I know about how the body works.. Not completely anyway. :whatevah:

Off topic - About those "experiences". I turned around about an hour ago, and their is a hand print on my moms window. It is a tall window, and I can't reach the handprint, and there is nothing to stand on, nor is there a reason to need to touch that part of the window. The handprint seems to come and go. It's weird. :eek13:

[7D$]

This is one of those questions that can never fully be answered.

It is true that an average human only uses (what is is like 4% of their brain?) So there is a high chance that somewhere in that unknown 96 (or whatever) %, there is room for a soul.

euhm its true we use a lil percentage of the whole brain capacity but that doesnt mean that the remaining 96% (according to you) is unknown by scientist

and i also thing that we have some sort of soul coz the most ppl have the same brain structure but the personality's and the intelligence of ppl are differnt so i guess there is some sort of soul

[Silhouette]

and i also thing that we have some sort of soul coz the most ppl have the same brain structure but the personality's and the intelligence of ppl are differnt so i guess there is some sort of soul

Personalities and intelligence can also be different because of the way the person is raised. What they encounter throughout their life and whatnot. And yes, I know that there is a topic about this.. :rolleye09

[7D$]

lets say the ppl are raised exactly the same their would still be a differnce because thats the way it is

[Silhouette]

True. That's just the way it is. Like goodguys vs badguys. Both usually have a tragic past. One person would want to make everyone miserable like they were, the other would want to fight to make sure that no one goes through what they did. It's just the way it is.. People take hardships and experiences different ways, and that's what forms their personality..

[Dysdaimon]

I believe in the existence of the soul, but it residual place within the human body is another matter. Speaking psychologically, the soul would be your feelings, emotions, thoughts, ideas, and so forth. At least, that's what I believe. I keep thinking the soul is mainly a mental thing, and cannot really be physically manifested, although I do believe it exists.

[Dekuben]

I have been thinking and last night i theorised that maybe our soul is a part of us that is reincarnated and depending on the strength of our personality,

The wiser and stronger our personality is the more similiar our personality will be in the next life as it is a good personality.

If this is going too off topic just delete. I thought someone might be interested in the hypothesis though. The very metaphysical hypothesis that is XD

[nikuwadoko]

I'm not really sure about this...but I'll try to gather my thoughts.

What are souls? Souls are people aren't they? Souls are you, me, and individuals everyone. They are whats "breathing" underneath this skin. Although I am not sure if souls actually "exist". but I do believe "spirits" exist. Though they may seem different spirits in my opinion are more concrete than souls (which are more of a religious thing). They are proof that we actually exist, for example: personal thought, love, relationships, and etc. The major question is, where do all this "good stuff" go after "death"? Here comes the magical part. We don't know if the kind of "death" that we define today ends the "human spirit", but we DO know that it certainly ends physical activity. I truly believe that the spirit lives on. It's hard to explain, but I'm sure if one truly believed in something with all his/her heart than it can overcome physical barriers.

[chiking1]

lol im like... aethiest... so i do not believe in ghosts/souls/spirits... this is because it seems so 'unrealistic,' and i think that when you die, you don't continue on as a ghost... you just DIE...

[Askand]

I read most of the post here and the difference is quite large. I never thought so deep but I do believe in souls. I think what makes me be here is my body but also the unknown part known as soul. It's like Ying and Yang one can't be without the other. The Body is the vessel the Soul is the essence inside the vessel that would be mixed with the experiences in this world. I think you need to be here in order to learn if you can't acomplised the learning then the next time (which is why reencarnation is feaseable) you would do it right.

I know there is no scientific knowledge here but my opnion is based of faith in the unknown. Some things can be explain others....all you need is just a little bit of faith.

Askand

[SolBeowulf19]

The existence of a soul can never be truly proven, now at least. To me a soul is what makes a person who they are. It's like...their conciousness. On this plane they have a physical body, but in that body is a concious. It allows a person to be a person.

[TheSixth]

Yes. A few of you may be surprised at this considering my disposition on religion in my other thread Does Religion Blind Mankind?, but do not believe in the soul the way religious types do. Rather than some thing that is a part of you since you were created in the womb and leaves your body and ascends to heaven or burn in hell blah, blah, blah...It is my belief that the soul is the collection of our experiences and memories since in birth. I believe that we are all born with a blank slate with no soul, and the person we become later in life is decided on how you're raised and the environment in which you grow and create those memories. Basically the soul is the compilation of your individuality, created from your experiences from the moment you hear your first sound, see you first sight, and what you have experienced whether you remember or not. Then that means that by my logic, the soul is mostly developed during the first 15-20 years of your life, and past that point you are the person you will be for life. Of course you can change but as you get older it becomes less likely.

[Lex]

I really enjoy your discussions! I have once before replied to your 'Does religion blind man' and I think I have to disagree with only one thing you said in this one. I don't believe that a soul has finished developing after 15-20 years, I don't think a soul can ever stop developing and evolving. If the soul is what makes a man then it's the soul that can be evil or good...right?
So the way I see it, in my experiance with people, even though you've been 'evil' (For a lack of a better word) your whole life, you should still be able to change towords the end.
Didn't it say in the bible somewhere (Don't quote me, I don't know my bible well) than you can ask for forgiveness even on your death bed you will be forgiven?
If your soul is done developing by 20 how can some people still change?
Hope this doesn't piss you off.

[Silhouette]

Meh. . . *bumps topic*

Faith? Bah! The problem with reincarnation is: You don't remember your past lives, so you can't actually learn from your mistakes..

[TheSixth]

I really enjoy your discussions! I have once before replied to your 'Does religion blind man' and I think I have to disagree with only one thing you said in this one. I don't believe that a soul has finished developing after 15-20 years, I don't think a soul can ever stop developing and evolving. If the soul is what makes a man then it's the soul that can be evil or good...right?
So the way I see it, in my experiance with people, even though you've been 'evil' (For a lack of a better word) your whole life, you should still be able to change towords the end.
Didn't it say in the bible somewhere (Don't quote me, I don't know my bible well) than you can ask for forgiveness even on your death bed you will be forgiven?
If your soul is done developing by 20 how can some people still change?
Hope this doesn't piss you off.

Thx. No, you'd have to say something pretty outrageous to piss me off in a debate of opinions on philosophy. The message boards at Club Bleach are the only place where i can discuss philosophy, world issues, and Bleach.

Anyways, i said that the soul, in my opinion the essence of your individuality and experiences, is mostly developed by your early-mid 20's. There is always room for change, but i'm saying that your experiences in those first 20 or so years of your life form the base of the person you will be later in life.

Okay, i'll go along with your religious P.O.V. for a sec. So someone who has been 'evil' for most of their life no matter what they've done can ask for forgiveness on their deathbed and actually be forgiven just because that person realizes what they have done and is afraid of 'hell'? Where is the justice there? What about the people that person wronged in their life, what if his actions ruined someone's life whether he knew it or not. When there is an injustice there must be a punishment to suit the injustice, it does not matter if the person is sorry, what good does an apology do? Words mean very little these days, well i'm getting a little off-topic here but i believe i've made my point.

I'll be away from the boards for the rest of the day so i'll have to continue this in 9 hours or so.

[TheSixth]

Yes, i belive in the existence of the soul. A few of you may be surprised at this considering my disposition on religion in my other thread Does Religion Blind Mankind?, but do not believe in the soul the way religious types do. Rather than some thing that is a part of you since you were born and leaves your body and ascends to heaven or burn in hell blah, blah, blah...It is my belief that the soul is the collection of our experiences and memories since birth. I believe that we are all born with a blank slate with no soul, and the person we become later in life is decided on how you're raised and the environment in which you grow and create those memories. Basically i believe the soul is the compilation of your individuality, created from your experiences from the moment you hear your first sound, see your first sight, and what you have experienced whether you remember or not. This means that by my logic, the soul is mostly developed during the first 20-25 years of your life and those experiences in that time will form the base of the person will be for life. Of course you can change but as you get older it becomes less likely.

Yeah i just made my own thread on this issue because this thread wasn't on the front list, it's a good thing there's only three posts on it.

[TheSixth]

Meh. . . *bumps topic*
Faith? Bah! The problem with reincarnation is: You don't remember your past lives, so you can't actually learn from your mistakes..

You can save Soul Society, recycle your souls. See it in the new Al Gore movie :LOL:

[rukia723]

i'd say it depends on the culture, whether to believe or not to believe in spirits or whatever.

[Ceres Legend]

Since I am a Muslim, I will say what I believe in. i fully believe in the existence of souls.

the creation of man involves Allah "breathing" a soul into him. This intangible part of an individual's existence is "pure" at birth and has the potential of growing and achieving nearness to God if the person leads a righteous life. At death the person's soul transitions to an eternal afterlife of bliss, peace and unending spiritual growth. This transition can be pleasant (Heaven) or unpleasant (Hell) depending on the degree to which a person has developed or destroyed his or her soul during life.

This is what I believe. I also believe that if free will exists, then a soul most exist too. As the phrase says '' Sell my soul to you '' it means to sell ones free will to a person. Humans have a special ability that can cause us to be responsible for our actions. Rather than being pipelines for chains of natural causes that go back before our birth, we can initiate our own causal chains. This ability is commonly called free will.

Free will involves the freedom to make choices that are not determined by prior causes. Therefore, free will is itself a cause and not an effect in its interactions with corporealtiy. So if free will is to exist, its basis must be incorporeal (once the corporeal is excluded, the incorporeal is the only remaining logical possibility). Since it is the self that causes the actions (i.e. is the basis of the free will), and if the basis of free will is necessarily incorporeal, then the basis of the self is incorporeal. Since the soul is the incorporeal essence of oneself (by definition), then if free will exists the soul must exist also. Free will obviously exists ; just try to wiggle a toe and you will know what I mean. Therefore, a soul also exists. ^^

The eouls exists, because free will exists. ^__^

[dundo1989]

yes i do believe we have souls..as da muslim religion it sais in da quran dat God gave us our souls ...and on da day of judgement our souls will be removed from our body starting from da feet upto da head..so well da quran has its facts...and all i can do is believe in dem..yes and ceres explains it more.....