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View Full Version : The Anime Media Debate


Unholy
07-08-2006, 12:02 PM
There has long been a giant WAR ON MEDIA in the Anime community. That is, the fact people get incredibly outraged at the fact websites charge for the downloading of Anime.

There are two types of these "culprits", those websites that ask for donations such as Bleach Portal and those that have "Premium" Services such as Naruto Fan.

The Anime Community of the internet is like any community on the internet, made of hundreds of thousands of people. Of these, there will be the occasional evil person or so, that will exploit the community to make a profit, however I wish to explain in this what exactly goes into making a website and then let anyone contribute or argue anything that I say.

First, being my area of expertise I will start with websites asking for donations, since that is what Bleach Portal is.

Bleach Portal has one of the highest Donation Goals in the anime community, being only a smidgeon below $1000. This all goes into our pockets right? Of course not. No matter how much you can bring in your facts and figures, people just have no idea that their facts and figures are so rudimentarily incorrect that they should probably do a little more research next time.

Debate One: "A server doesn't cost $950"
Absolutely Correct, but 5 do. Bleach Portal currently uses 5 Dedicated 20mbps Servers for its media downloads. That's $249 per server, per month. That comes to a total of $1245 a month.

Why do we need 5 servers? Because of the insane traffic that we receive each and every day. you know all the complaints about slow downloads? THAT IS BECAUSE OF THE TRAFFIC. Simple and plain evidence there, even 5 servers cannot handle our traffic.

So why can't we get more servers? Because they are already $1250 a month! People are already complaining about our goal being $950!

Debate 2 "So the contests must be rigged then"
There is a simple phrase "Spending Money to make Money" the prizes are paid via advertising revenue. These Prizes then give incentive to potential Donators to donate causing increased Donations surpassing the cost of the Prize itself.

Debate 3 "But you have advertisements everywhere"
Well first of all, The banner ad on the top of our page pays for our dedicated "WEBSITE" hosting, not our "MEDIA" hosting. The Website and the Media are hosted on entirely different servers in different locations. Secondly, the bottom advertisement not only has to pay for the prizes but make up that other $300 of our donation goal that we don't get each month to pay for the Media Servers. Any excess money is then saved and spent to upgrade services such as the new Download Script which we brought someone from outside (so not myself) to do so that we could get the most from our servers.

Debate 4 "I don't believe you"
Well... that is just a testament to your own ignorance in the field. If you knew anything about running a large website, and providing large media files to a wide audience then you might actually understand that what we say here isn't just a giant government conspiracy so that we can steal all your money. Trust me, for the work that goes into Bleach Portal, even stealing all the donations would make it the lowest paying job since slavery.

My added addition.
I personally as I mentioned above, do not see the problem people have with Anime Websites making a profit. Sure, the Fansubs are free property, but what the Fan subbers do is illegal to begin with. You can go into the ethical reasons from dawn till dusk, but it is a shit load of work to create and maintain a website, not to mention a large scale one. If it weren’t for the every increasing experience I get from this project, and just my love for providing the fans with the things they enjoy I wouldn’t be here.

Spending your whole life on something for no return seems to me quite useless, I mean, there is A LOT of work that goes into websites that have nothing to do with Media, “stealing money from the fan subbers” is a ridiculous claim.

Sure, a lot of sites wouldn’t deserve any money at all for the work they do, they get some substandard CMS and get a few people to randomly work for free and then go “yay look at my site I’m so great” Bleach Portal is constantly trying to improve everything in its arsenal (in Version 5 unlike ever before) I do hours of tireless work, but so does everyone who has helped me so far and will help me in the creation of Version 5 of Bleach Portal. Websites, although may seem like a few hours work take hours to not only create but test and secure (especially in my field of being the programmer)

If a webmaster was found to be taking money from donations that weren’t hindering the site (such as buying like a shared crappy media server then keeping the $1000 donated for a better one) then I wouldn’t really have a problem with it. For anyone thinking that I probably do this, it’s just my luck that Lunatic controls the funds so I couldn’t even if I wanted to … *cry* :P

Anyway, as for services such as Naruto Fan, some are good, some are bad. Many such as Naruto Fan is beginning to become are excessive at their money laundering. With Bandwidth limits, there is no need for $8/mo for 5GB of B/W. Servers themselves are inexpensive, it’s the lines they are connected to that cost the money. If you are limiting the amount one can download, then that’s just insane. For example a server with like 2TB (2000GB) of Bandwidth per month is $200 or so. That may be a bit high. Anyway, that’s say 400 people at 5 GB per month. That’s $3200 taken from members for a $200 server.

So, sure they are making $3000 profit from one server, but really is that even a problem? I mean, sure the fan subbers subbed the anime, but they don’t own it either. If the licensing companies don’t care, then it doesn’t really matter. The question isn’t “Oh they are selling free fan subs!” because the fan subs don’t belong to the fan subbers to give away for free anyway. Making a profit from them, or giving them away for free are both equally illegal. So really, if one can charge $8 for a service and get people to pay for it even though they are being grossly ripped off, then good luck to them.

The world is full of people looking to make a profit, money is wanted by everyone, it is the global commodity, people will do whatever they want for it, and no matter how much you ***** about ethics, they will always be doing it.

Dissidia
07-08-2006, 12:28 PM
There's not much I don't agree on here as I dont really see the debateable factor, its more of a "how large community fansites operate 101". As for the subscription thing like NarutoFan, sure people are being ripped off, but equally they can go elsewhere and get it for free if they look. I'd rather see subbers getting a bit more cash but hey, you can't dictate to people how to spend their own money.

P.S. from all the hype I'm expecting V5 to be the second coming of christ :winking56

Unholy
07-08-2006, 12:41 PM
Second coming of christ, lol... I don't usually announce next versions, because I don't like letting people down, but I seem to drop alot of features because ppl don't expect them, thus don't miss them ;)

THanatosX
07-08-2006, 01:35 PM
nobody has the right to charge money for free fansubs

Unholy
07-08-2006, 01:55 PM
/me doesn't think THanatosX read my post at all... plus his comment has no argument in it... this is the exact reason I brough up the topic, people whining non stop without anything solid :/

Shaehl
07-08-2006, 04:01 PM
nobody has the right to charge money for free fansubs

Websites that charge money for access to their services aren't necessarily charging for the sub itself. Regardless, no one has any obligation to give anyone free service.

Delta
07-08-2006, 04:48 PM
nobody has the right to charge money for free fansubs

You have the right to charge for anything you like aslong as it's not screwing with anyone else's property rights. If you can convince people to pay you to stay home and sleep, good for you.

Back on topic I never complain about slow downloads, not updating, ect. Why because i'm not paying anything. If you pay for something you should expect some decent service and you have a right to complain if you think the services rendered aren't good enough, if your not paying anything, sit down and shut up.

Hattori
07-08-2006, 06:23 PM
You have the right to charge for anything you like aslong as it's not screwing with anyone else's property rights. If you can convince people to pay you to stay home and sleep, good for you.
Back on topic I never complain about slow downloads, not updating, ect. Why because i'm not paying anything. If you pay for something you should expect some decent service and you have a right to complain if you think the services rendered aren't good enough, if your not paying anything, sit down and shut up.

On the money. You can pick and choose all you want amongst the free sites, but don't whining to one because they're providing a service you're not paying for. If you do whine, at least have the decency to donate.

That being said, donations/profits are necessary for a site to expand. Investments can yield larger, more frequented sites, and money is needed not only to maintain overhead but also to get bigger and better. I wouldn't be suprised if a good portion of Narutofan's revenue goes towards investment as well.

Unholy
07-09-2006, 02:49 AM
As I should have mentioned above, BT allows you to find all these files for free anyway, if you are willing to pay for the extra convinance then by all means. Its SUPPLY AND DEMAND, thats why people pay $10 for a bag of popcorn at the cinema, when its like $1.50 at the stores. It's the CONVENIANCE that leads people to paying, not the actual media itself they pay for, why would people pay if they could get it for free at the same conveniance?

Yuki
07-09-2006, 12:11 PM
I didn't know all that... It's nice to know it, I'm more conscious about the work of all people behind the webpages... Thanks, Unholy for your great work...
Yeah, you're right downloadin' episodes from the internet, and also the work of fansubbers is illegal... But, think a little... If all this "business" didn't exist, people in Europe wouldn't be able to get any anime episodes (only the licensed ones, and there are very few)... It's not fair that for not living in Japan or near to it we got excluded of anime and manga... If there are rules, there must be someone to break them... Subbers are doin' well, as long as they don't earn money with it... :P

KT Samurai
07-09-2006, 08:14 PM
Does this web site use bit torrent to distribute its files? If not, why not? I imagine it's a lot cheaper.

I agree, there's nothin' to debate here. If we want websites like this one to exist we can't expect 'em to live off out our gratitude alone. You have to pay for stuff, and if you happen to make some pocket money for yourself in the meantime then good for you. That's completely understandable considering the service you're providing. It's basic business, as you've already clearly demonstrated.

This probably should have been more of an announcement rather than a debate.

Hattori
07-09-2006, 08:16 PM
Torrents are generally slower for people with slow connections.

chiking1
07-10-2006, 01:30 AM
It would cost more to have direct downloads, so free sights usually have torrents.

dragoneyes001
07-10-2006, 03:38 AM
my comment is exacly that not a debate.

have you checked to see if the added cost of going to 50mbps servers while droping total number of servers to three might save you cost? some server groups will have deals on bigger servers in comparison to the smaller ones.

it might be worth a look since you'd have an extra 50mbps on three or you could go even with just two bigger servers. asuming they dont cost 250% more each.