The effect of religions

[Reefern86]

All right I hope this inspires some serious debates. The question is this.

Are religions in fact distroying our concept morality and the way we as nations and people act?

In my opinion religion is a mistake. Most people jion religions not for the actual spiritual sence but to be excepted by a group. There is nothing wrong with this, but it then becomes a matter of debate. Every different religion "believes" in different ideals and what is excepted, and this in trun leads to conflict.
Wars have been fought (are still being fought) basesed on these flawed religions. Due to nothing but different beliefs people have been killed and it has also formed the basis of our goverments, justice systems, and the way we veiw others. It is because of this that i find ALL religion to be wrong. Not that they dont premote good ideas but the negative out ways the good.
Plus they have kept individuals from making their own beliefs because they r afraid that the other religions and peole will come after them. This is NOT what belief should be and it is for these reasons that i think we should get rid of all organized religion.

PLZ feel free to state ur views on this subject. Thx >.<

[Esedess]

All right I hope this inspires some serious debates. The question is this.
Are religions in fact distroying our concept morality and the way we as nations and people act?
In my opinion religion is a mistake. Most people jion religions not for the actual spiritual sence but to be excepted by a group. There is nothing wrong with this, but it then becomes a matter of debate. Every different religion "believes" in different ideals and what is excepted, and this in trun leads to conflict.
Wars have been fought (are still being fought) basesed on these flawed religions. Due to nothing but different beliefs people have been killed and it has also formed the basis of our goverments, justice systems, and the way we veiw others. It is because of this that i find ALL religion to be wrong. Not that they dont premote good ideas but the negative out ways the good.
Plus they have kept individuals from making their own beliefs because they r afraid that the other religions and peole will come after them. This is NOT what belief should be and it is for these reasons that i think we should get rid of all organized religion.
PLZ feel free to state ur views on this subject. Thx >.<

The concept of religion you imply, is that of simply a group, say, a church, and no, a religion these days does not have a thing to do with belief. Most people join a religion because they've been brought up that way and their aversion is liekwise instigated through growth and development within the beliefs of their parents. I don't agree that all religion is wrong, the Taoist and Bhuddhist monks in China and far eastern places seem to have the right idea. Organised religion has become a sham.
We could make a difference by discussing our beliefs and exploring them without discrimination, but it's a long time before that'll happen. I mean, I agree with what a lot of, say, Jesus said, but I don't care who the hell he was, Son of God or not. I look around and i think to myself about what seems to work on a human level or not, then work from there. I likes to spread the love.

[SoundWave]

Omg... I saw a program on the telly today.. It was about a girl from Palestine and she's an Arab living Israel.. As most of you ppl might know there's an ongoing conflict between the arabs in Palestine and the Jews in Israel.

Anyway Back to this girl, she was training Karate together with her sister, but her brothers and her mother said that women isn't supposed to do karate. "Because women aren't supposed to do those moves" they said.

She really loved the sport and her father and sister supported her. She was really good, won the WM 2003.

Then the pressure from her brothers became heavier and she got married to a husband with the same opinion as her brothers. The arabic women have to obey their husband at all costs, don't ask me why, it's something with their religion, something like that. So her husband said that she couldn't continue with karate, "only to be a trainer" he said.

You could see that she was sad, but she just kept smiling and pretending that everyhtings good.

A tragic end to a tragic story... When I saw this it me so damn mad.. How do you think her life looks like now. She's just an empty shell. What use is there to live if you're living in misery. How long do you think she will last?. Ppl kill for the sake of their religion in one way or another. I think religion should be scrapped.

"Guns don't kill people, religion does"

[Delta]

I dont think it's religion itself that is the problem, its religious extremism, and problibly extremism general, that is the cause of most of the conlicts you're talking about. Religion has been use as an excuse to start wars and conflicts, but usually there are economic or political reasons behind it. Most people, religious people included, are reasonable, its the 5% of the population who are batshit crazy and shouting it from the rooftops who screw everything up for the rest of us.

[Byakuya Teichou]

Whoa thats a sad story. Sometimes i do question my religion of chrristianity and wonder why certain things in the world happen. But what can we do i guess some things will never change.

[Reefern86]

I dont think it's religion itself that is the problem, its religious extremism, and problibly extremism general, that is the cause of most of the conlicts you're talking about. Religion has been use as an excuse to start wars and conflicts, but usually there are economic or political reasons behind it. Most people, religious people included, are reasonable, its the 5% of the population who are batshit crazy and shouting it from the rooftops who screw everything up for the rest of us.

though u do have a point the proble is that religion gives these "batshit crazy" people an EXCEPTABLE outlit for what they r doing. U and i both realize that they r freakn meesed up, but they have "religious" goals (or so they say) and thus these people r supported. Whithout the organized religions backing them I feel less people would be going along with them and more people would c them for what they rly r...

@Byakuya: The fact that u feel (and many other ppl feel the same) that there is something wrong, but that it wont change, will lead to change. If more people were open about their beliefs Everything COULD change, and that's what im hopping for actually. (srry all for the side note there)

[SoundWave]

I dont think it's religion itself that is the problem, its religious extremism, and problibly extremism general, that is the cause of most of the conlicts you're talking about. Religion has been use as an excuse to start wars and conflicts, but usually there are economic or political reasons behind it. Most people, religious people included, are reasonable, its the 5% of the population who are batshit crazy and shouting it from the rooftops who screw everything up for the rest of us.
And how do we get rid of these "extremists"?.. It's easy scrap religion and poof.. gone.. :D

[opticlink]

Those that want to be influenced by religeon extremists, let them. I don't need someone to tell me what the right religeon is.

[7D$]

And how do we get rid of these "extremists"?.. It's easy scrap religion and poof.. gone.. :D
NOs wtf are you nuts lol you cant just scrap a religion lmao that would be like impossible

and i knwo there are rotten apples everywhere in every religion and those damn fools fukin it up for everybody that has the same religion

and it kinda makes me mad when i hear the story of the girl mostly because i am a arab and i do know it happens alot that women that are married should listen to their husband all the time but that makes me sick cuz Those ppl are friggin ignorant if they think their the superior sex and that they think that women doesnt have any feeling or doesnt need any joy in her live grrrrrr i hate them That man should be glad that the women is doing karate so when his arse is kicked that he can call his wife to sort the shizz out lol

[SoundWave]

NOs wtf are you nuts lol you cant just scrap a religion lmao that would be like impossible
and i knwo there are rotten apples everywhere in every religion and those damn fools fukin it up for everybody that has the same religion
and it kinda makes me mad when i hear the story of the girl mostly because i am a arab and i do know it happens alot that women that are married should listen to their husband all the time but that makes me sick cuz Those ppl are friggin ignorant if they think their the superior sex and that they think that women doesnt have any feeling or doesnt need any joy in her live grrrrrr i hate them That man should be glad that the women is doing karate so when his arse is kicked that he can call his wife to sort the shizz out lol
I know I know, religion can't be scrapped, cuz then there would be rebellions and all that shit. Ppl will have to realize what is wrong with their religion themselves..

Sometimes there aren't just a couple of extremists you know.. Take the Palestines for example, they all live by the same strict rules.. Would you call all of them extremists?

[7D$]

I know I know, religion can't be scrapped, cuz then there would be rebellions and all that shit. Ppl will have to realize what is wrong with their religion themselves..
Sometimes there aren't just a couple of extremists you know.. Take the Palestines for example, they all live by the same strict rules.. Would you call all of them extremists?
thats a common mistake to call all the palistines a extremist cuz if i where in their shoes i would stand up for my country too and tried to take my belongings back, i dont know if you know palestines situation but i think they arent extremists

[SoundWave]

thats a common mistake to call all the palistines a extremist cuz if i where in their shoes i would stand up for my country too and tried to take my belongings back, i dont know if you know palestines situation but i think they arent extremists
Well that's not what I'm talking about, ofcourse they can be mad about some1 taking their country.. I'm reffering to the rules they live by, The rules from their religion. For ex. that the woman must obey her husband. Palestine was just an example. I think that ppl in Iran also have a very strict life, because of their religion.

[7D$]

Well that's not what I'm talking about, ofcourse they can be mad about some1 taking their country.. I'm reffering to the rules they live by, The rules from their religion. For ex. that the woman must obey her husband. Palestine was just an example. I think that ppl in Iran also have a very strict life, because of their religion.
hmmmkay i c your piont ans i am agreeing with ya

I dont know either lol Egypt is a muslim country too but they arent that strict well in some lil towns they are but i think it has to do with the econmy of the country too maybe they cling to hard on the religion or something i dont know for sure

[SoundWave]

In Iran it's their leader.. Ayatollah.. one crazy arse.. And with palestine I think it's a mix of poor economy and being pressed down, forced to live with walls around them.

[Silhouette]

I agree that religion should be wiped off the face of this earth. However, in removing religion, those morons will just find another excuse for war.

"Oh, they're terrorist! This is a war against terror!"
"We must go, and get rid of this weapon of mass destruction!"
"We must bring Democracy to that land, and liberate those poor souls from tyrany"

My ass. Even though religion is the prime excuse for going to war, there are still many others, waiting to be used. Oh wait, they're being used now. :rolleye09

Those that want to be influenced by religeon extremists, let them. I don't need someone to tell me what the right religeon is.

It doesn't really matter what you think, does it? No. As long as those extremists use religion to control the majority, the opinions of the minority mean absolutely nothing.

Things will never change. Why? Because there will always be power hungry fools who feel that the only way to solve problems, is war. And there will always be someone egging them on. There will always be some excuse to hide behind. And they will always be cowards, afraid to show their true intentions, because they know what they are doing is wrong.

Things will never change because there will always be different religions. Different codes of life. Too many people, and not enough land. "God gave us this land." That doesn't mean ****. Who says that your god even exists? No proof at all. No proof that if he did exist, that he said you can have that land. Using "divine right" is also a problem..

But whatever. The only way things can ever change, is if certain religions, or people are completely wiped off the face of this earth.

-I appologize if this post offended anyone. I am not attacking people, so much as their religions.. I do not believe in genocide either. However...nevermind. This post was not made out of hate. Religion, and the way people blindly follow it, just pisses me off.. :sad:

[gwcommander]

Getting rid of relgion isnt going to stop evil in the world. We as humans would find something else to fight about. And to say wiping out religon is like saying why not get rid of this race of people or because you have a funny accent. I think that to say relgion is evil is totally ignorant. People courupt what ever they can. Most world relgions and even my own (yes im Christian deal with it) talk about doing good things for the world. yea we got our differences but extreamism is what is wrong with the world. Money and power are not the true principles of most relgions. And to steriotype ppl becuase of right wing nuts like pat robinson or osama bin ladin for muslims. If you dont like relgion thats fine just dont attack us for it.

[Reefern86]

I dont know if i agree with the "wipe religion off the face of the earth" idea. While i do believe it causes more harm then good (like i stated earlier). I dont think total eradication will work either. The only reason i dont want it totaly distroyed is because the basic "beliefs" all promote basic good behavior. (Ok not all religions, but at least the people r following SOME type of rules).

I think it would be best if they weren't the over powering organizations they r today. Screw the Vadican (i cant spell stfu), get rid of the HUMAN influence on beliefs...then we will be better off.

[gwcommander]

i sort of agree with you Reefern86. i know your not trying to say kill all relgion. I do know where your coming from though. I think that relgion has been man handled for many many years. Even though im a christian i think we all should be able to belive the way we want. Cuz i dont want someone saying hey you can't do that. Its my right. But we got a few extreamist and the people who arent hypocrates and good people get the label of being evil or fashist or what ever. I have been discriminated for what i belive and it isnt fun. So we just got to point those bad people out and say hey were not going to let you hurt the innocent people with your brainwashing. and im not catholic so the vadican thing dont bother me. lol

[Delta]

though u do have a point the proble is that religion gives these "batshit crazy" people an EXCEPTABLE outlit for what they r doing. U and i both realize that they r freakn meesed up, but they have "religious" goals (or so they say) and thus these people r supported. Whithout the organized religions backing them I feel less people would be going along with them and more people would c them for what they rly r...

I think you mean acceptable..... anyway I think people like that would find an excuse to start conflicts even if religion didnt exist, mby accuse them of having weapons of mass distruction or something :rolleye09 .

And how do we get rid of these "extremists"?.. It's easy scrap religion and poof.. gone..

Right, then people just start wars for other reasons instead of religious ones.

[TwilightFlower]

Religion cannot be eradicated for the same reason that government cannot be eradicated. Humans need them. Even if you managed to wipe out all religion currently in existence, humans would make new ones. Maybe better ones. Maybe worse ones. Religion in and of itself is not evil. People are. They warp things. They distort things. You can't change that simply because the only way would be to totally eradicate mankind. And I, for one, have a huge problem with that. And if you don't believe me that religions are not the problem, here's a very good example. I am a Wiccan, a witch. My religion is completely non-violent. There are some not nice karmic laws that come into play for wrong-doers. Yet there are those who claim to be witches just so they can exact revenge on others. They think they can claim to be Wiccan and hex people into the next century. That isn't what Wicca is about. Hexing people is a strict no-no. But people warp the religion. People twist it around for their own selfish ends. It is people that are the problem.

[brolijc]

Religions will most probably never disappear, even when all religions we know now disappears, someone out there will make a new one, a new believe. Some people out there used religions to make use of people in the religions, some people use religions for evil.

I have seen quarrels between people of different religions so many times that it becomes a common thing to me. It usually the person that made the fight or argument happen. For example, I once quarrelled with this person over Christianity, I'm not a Christian, I'm a freethinker. But this person kept asking me to become a Christian, after numerous times of declining, the person still continue asking me, so I asked a few questions about the religion, and the person gave me irritating answers with no backing or supporting proof at all. Got pissed and in the end quarrelled and almost fought with the person after I kind of try to disprove what the person was saying. Perharps I was abit too harsh but just imagine, I'm studying in a Christian school and almost everyday, someone will ask me to become a Christian. No offense to anyone here

Some religions are perfectly fine, for example Buddism (not sure how you spell it). It teaches you beliefs, no fighting and stuffs. Monks will not force you to do anything unless maybe if it is gonna hurt another person.

I believe that religions nowadays are more of like a book that teaches the person how to be a good person in life instead of handing everything you have to the religion and the god you believe. However some religions does just the opposite, there was one in US last time where the religion believes that a man must marry at least 3 women to go to heaven, and the head of that religion or cult is now in the top 10 wanted person in FBI's wanted list.

Religions are fine as long as a person don't overdo it and your sure that you benefit from it

[Silhouette]

Yeah, that is rather annoying when people try to "convert" you to their religion. And whenever I have a question, they always give me the same annoying answers. I'm getting tired of hearing that I'll go to hell if I don't become a Christian. Yeah, if hell exists, then I'm probably bound for it, even if I were Christian. So whatever.

People do not need religions. I don't have a religion, and I live my life just fine. People think they need religion. Governments, although they are usually corrupt, are needed to keep order. The only purpose for religion is to give people a code to live by. However, everyone is different, will believe different things, and will have different codes. This causes conflict. Indeed it is humanity that is evil, and humanity that warps things. No matter what you use to "unite" the masses, there will always be conflict because of it. Religion, nationalism, race, etc., will always be a problem in this world.

People are evil, yes? And who created these religions? People. People nowadays will see religion as something good (most people). But more often than not, it is used by people for their own personal gain. Things created by humanity usually have a likeness to its creater. Humans are constantly changing, for better or for worse, like religion is. Humans are constantly at quarrel with one another, like the various religions. Can't we all just get along? Obviously not. :rolleye09

Humanity is doomed. It is only a matter of time until we destroy ourselves. The US alone already has the power to destroy half the earth, but that's another story.. :whatevah:

[mooks]

Only half the earth? is that it!?

Anyways... I gotta say that religion is important- regardless whether there is a God or not. There are organizations such as ACT (Action by Churches Together), and WCC (World Council of Churches) and GIO (Global Islamic Organisation).. whose main purpose is Humanitarian work on a global scale.

Now sure, there are humanitarian organisations out there unrelated to religion also doing the same thing right? Well, yes and no. Organisations such as the UN, EPA, HungerWeb, USAID, directrelief.org, and so on. the ONLY difference between these organizations are corruption and scandal. Now, maybe religion plays a part in a persons conscience or not- the fact is undisputable.
Without religion, you have a society that without spirituality or guidance yearns for some sort of purpose or meaning that interprets itself in forms of cults, or psychiatric dependancy or a way of discipline that is governed by emotional reaction and/or psycho-active drugs or chemicals.
You have no common ground of morality or respect because it is open to interpretation by almost any angle. Absolute freedom leads to technicalities that ultimately harm the vulnerable individuals. Total freedom is a double edged sword... without any restrictions exercised as it is so openly practiced and preached in the West- leads to unbelievable circumstances.. such as the infamous tale of the thief who cut himself while he was robbing some lady, eventually wins a courtcase, Or complete insults to a whole culture or nation disguised as art- such as the 'defamation of gypsies'.These circumstances would not happen in a religious nation.
NOW, I'm fully aware of the circumstances religion restricts and opposes and how it affects modern life- the stance on Homosexuality, or abortion, etc. that is why religion should change to shape our times.
Things like Honor killings, KKK, Jihad, (vegans... i'm kidding, j/k!) are more cultural reflections than religion.
Religion is societies way of keeping taboos and deviancy in check, who can argue about what the 10commandments preach? or the pillars of Islam? ... OK, some, maybe most of it maybe outdated or downright wrong- but that's because it is old.. suitable for generations long gone. Religion should change.. not go away.

[Jack Van Burace]

Faith is a powerfull tool, and don't kid yourselves that u could live whithout it just cuz u don't have a religion. Every time u face fear u practice faith. When u test an experiment u don't know if will work, u have faith it will, otherwise u wouldn't test it. The main diference between religious ppl and non religious ones are their choice of trust. Some trust in a thousands years old book, and others keep their thrusness at a minimun. Can't b argued, as well as it's impossible to put your hand inside some1's head and flick a switch so they can agree whith you. Nowadays I believe society is going 2 a direction in which religious thinking will become more of a burden, in counterpart 2 middle ages when it was unquestionable. And I don't think I really want it 2 disappear, cuz diversity of ideas is what makes the ways of thinking go further ( take Darwin and Mendell, both partially wrong and oposing 2 each other, but them both gave birth 2 neo-darwinism, which is broadly accepted).

BTW, just cuz I said that doesn't mean I believe anyhow that 'inteligent design' or creationism will really contribute 2 the evolutionary thinking. :-)

[~black butterfly~]

religion has good and bad effects...good in a sense that it provides guidance in life. it helps people see the purpose and meaning of life... however, it becomes bad when people become blinded to what is taught and they see the world and life in a narrow tunnel... and they do rituals and stuff that is harmful for them.... plus the disagreement in beliefs... i think that makes religion bad....

[TwilightFlower]

Disagreement in beliefs? If religion is bad because of that, then so is government. So is pretty much every structure we have come to rely on, all the way down to the family unit. You cannot use that to claim that religion is wrong. People need to put their faith in something. They need to hope. We can say now that religion is wrong or bad because most of us don't live in a time or place where it is almost required. Catholicism is notably losing members now, but there are other religions that face the same problem. Many people in more organized and better off countries are moving away from religion because they take it for granted that their good circumstances will always remain that way. Religion tends to become more popular when there is less to take for granted. This is because people need something to fall back on, some faith or guidance, when they feel that things can't get any worse for them. When people are starving or oppressed, they need to feel that some god(s) will help them through it or will be there to welcome them when they die. People need faith, so in some form, they need religion.

[brolijc]

Faith is indeed something powerful. But I would prefer to place my faith on myself. When I'm poor, I will work hard and think of ways to get money. When I'm hungry, I will find ways to get food and not stay at home hoping for food to appear.

I would really wonder how many victims out there, when knowing that they are on the brink of death, placed their faith into their religions. And that faith of theirs is just broken like that. This is usually when people turn evil, when the faith of theirs got broken.

However, there are exceptions where faith is the one that causes the person to become an evil person. Some people had such a strong will of justice and faith in their religion, that they do evil stuffs or worse still, kill others believing what they done is right. For example, this guy murdered this gangster because he thinks that he can't be saved anymore, so he decided to act as a god and punish him, or maybe thought that he is just serving his god by erasing evil stuffs from this world

[Silhouette]

I agree. Government is bad. Every structure we "rely" on is flawed. There is no such thing as perfect. Why that word even exist, I do not know.

I've been through some very hard times. Not once did I look to the skies and prayed. Maybe that's why my visions on religion, humanity, and politics are so warped. Whatever. I do not turn to people with my problems, nor do I expect for people to help me, especially when I deny their existance.

True, most people flock to God when they need help, but think about this. They only go to God when they are going through hardships, but during the other times. God who? Sure, there are those who stay true to their beliefs, and look to their gods on the good times and bad. But when most of them are hit by tragedy, it's always, "God, why?"

This next part may seem very offensive: I don't believe in God. What I believe is that instead of him/her/it "creating" us, we created him/her/it. Why, you ask? To have someone to look up to? No. To have someone to help us in times of crisis? No. To have someone to show us the "true" and "just" path? No. So, why did humanity create their gods? To have someone to blame. To have an easy answer to life's many questions.
Why is the sky blue?
- God made it that way.
How was the universe created?
- God did it.
Why are some people such morons?
- To give God something to laugh at.
OMFG! What caused that earthquake?
- "The gods must be angry! We must sacrifice some people! Quick, gather the the rejects of society, and people we don't like!"


Yeah, religion is useful, I guess. Makes people act nice, and do good deeds.. All just to go to heaven. Tch. Like they wouldn't do those things anyway. Nice acting people...good deeds....ROFL! :rolleye09

Eh, whatever. I'm done posting in this topic. Flame me, curse me, whatever. If god does exist, then he is probably already signing those papers to send me to hell when I die. lawl. I bet heaven is boring anyway. :whatevah:

[Reefern86]

Personally I am a religious person. Obviously u wouldn't expect that from my previous posts and veiws, but i am in fact VERY religious. The only difference is that I dont choose to be in a organized religious structure. These religions, such as christianity (which has more branches then any other religion on the damn face of the earth), Judiaism (dont know if thats spelled right), and the other well know religions, are what should be obosed not belief itself. The problem is that these organizations prevent ppl from believing certain things because they dont allow any room for open-mindedness. Thus wars, fighting, and so on.

What is rly needed would either be to have these religions totaly redone (which will never happen) to be more excepting, or to just have them done away with. I admit something will have to take their place, but that something doesnt have to be a GLOBAL religion with set rules and regulations on what u have to believe in. Hell I'll start my own religion right now! A religion without a 5000 year old book telling me what to do (and is outdated as hell), and a religion that noone but me has't to follow. I dont care just as long as ppl become more openminded and stop killing each other over stupid shit. That is what we need...not a complete distruction of beliefs, just a complete distruction of organized religions, that make millions of dollars a year, and tell u not to be excepting of other ideas.

[brolijc]

This next part may seem very offensive: I don't believe in God. What I believe is that instead of him/her/it "creating" us, we created him/her/it. Why, you ask? To have someone to look up to? No. To have someone to help us in times of crisis? No. To have someone to show us the "true" and "just" path? No. So, why did humanity create their gods? To have someone to blame. To have an easy answer to life's many questions.
Why is the sky blue?
- God made it that way.
How was the universe created?
- God did it.
Why are some people such morons?
- To give God something to laugh at.
OMFG! What caused that earthquake?
- "The gods must be angry! We must sacrifice some people! Quick, gather the the rejects of society, and people we don't like!"



Yes! Sessou I had the exact same thinking as you. Just that I didn't want to voice it out because many people whom I expressed it to finds it offensive. Most of the people I know who are in religions share either 1 of these 3 points.

1) Family is in that religion
2) They are having hardships
3) They go to religious meetings to know more people (I have lots of friends like this)

People always tell me the great stuffs their religion had done. For example, a christian friend of mine said that there was a time, where the pastor of his church said "Few years from now, the world's 2 tallest buildings will fall". That was before the 911 incident. I asked him this, "So if he already knew this because god told him, THEN WHY DIDN'T HE REPORT THIS?". The answer is simple, it is coinsidental.

Also, the exact same friend once had an illness which haunt him for about 14 years. This illness was unknown to the doctors, he been through numerous check ups, none was successful. It was something which gave him severe stomachache and made him vomit everything he ate that day and even vomit out the acids inside his stomach. He said that after he went to church, the illness stopped. But what i wondered was, why is it that the EXACT same illness came back a year later?

OK last point
I always ask my friends this. If God truly helped them when they are having hardships, then what happened to those who suffered in Tsunamis? Earthquakes? 911 incident? People who got killed? I'm sure there are definetely some people who, till the last moment of their lives, believed in their god, and that faith was broken just like that. I sometimes wonder if i was that person, and this very thing i believed in for so many years, didn't help me at that moment when i was going to die or something really bad happen to me, how would i feel?

Also, I rather placed my faith in phrases that I hear from the TV or even songs. 1 example is the one in Gensomaden Saiyuki, it was something that Genjo Sanzo said, but i can't really remember the exact phrase, its something like "Kill your father as you see him. Kill the buddha as you see him. Don't be controlled (can't remember the word, but it has similar meaning to this) by anyone. (can't remember the next sentence)" But basically, it means that you shouldn't be listening to orders of anyone, but do what you think is right. Till now i deeply believe in that. I believe that no humans are evil in nature, it is our surroundings, environments, people that affect us for who we are today.

[mooks]

It's a shame... we're not even on the same wavelength...
I don't think this debate is about Evangelists and twisted concepts of Lutherism! If your looking to be cured or saved from a natural disaster- then your barking up the wrong tree... period. In fact, that's not what christianity is about in the first place! (but let's not get into that... )
This is about religion on a broader scale- we can discuss personal views and feelings about faith, god, whatever in the 'Do you believe in god?' thread... even swap sad stories about religious people suffering, i got some real tearjearkers... anyways

obviously, what you guys want is physical proof of a higher being, a miracle maybe. But religion is not about being saved by divine intervention, or about who gets into heaven first.. it's more about how societies in a sense can be coherent and have morality, and sustainable ethics-
regardless of the religion (pick one) we need those nice, do good-ers in society and in the world... compassion is borne from religion- and religion is about compassion and eases the pains of life, i.e- incurable sicknesses, unjust treatment, racist societies... etc. It doesn't mean one will get cured, or saved.. but the faith and hope is what keeps one sane through such hardships... God may exist, and he may not- but regardless it is such devotion that has kept peoples like African-americans (through their own version of christianity, Gospel) from being broken from harsh mistreatment... Or cancer patients to be at peace with their suffering or impending death. Or more commonly the poorest of people, that something good may happen one day...

As for complete freedom..you have no common ground of morality or respect because it is open to interpretation by almost any angle. Absolute freedom leads to technicalities that ultimately harm the vulnerable individuals. Total freedom is a double edged sword... without any restrictions exercised as it is so openly practiced and preached in the West- leads to unbelievably unfair circumstances..

Ofcourse, everything is a double-edged sword, even religion- the injustices that have been carried out in the name of religion... is just unforgivable (Irony?, i think so)... Religion needs to change because our world has changed quicker than religions can adapt... just remember religions change with every watershed moment in history..

Just think of the latter of having no religion whatsoever.. It's a much more scary thing (who's gonna feed the poor? us? ok, bad joke)

[chiking1]

lol i'm an aethiest.. so i dont believe GOD or some higher being is going to save the dying or 'feed the poor'. I think that (note: I THINK) religion is good up until one point. If you believe in it too much, you become dependant on it, and may wait until someone solves your problems for you, or dislike someone with other beliefs.
Therefore, i believe that SOME religion is good, but if you start believing in it too much, it may be bad.

[Sarteck]

I'd like to remind everyone that this is not a "Do you believe in God?" thread (we have one of those already, quite popular, heh). This is a thread debating the effects of religions, so please keep your arguements based on that. :3

[mooks]

I'd like to remind everyone that this is not a "Do you believe in God?" thread (we have one of those already, quite popular, heh). This is a thread debating the effects of religions, so please keep your arguements based on that. :3


Y'know, ya right... Speakin of which, I'd love to pick your brain on this subject, whatchu think about how religion affects society, culture, etc.

I know you always contribute immensely with your rhetoric that begs to be challenged... or revered.