Isreal Invasion on Lebanon.

[airswifter]

Personally, i can understand they want to protect isreal....
but going on to the extend of invading and killing is wrong. They are definately moving in the wrong way.
So debate about how you think of the current affair?

[Ai]

Euhmm you do know why they've "Commited to War" don't you?

[Nihsnek]

Personally, i can understand they want to protect isreal....
but going on to the extend of invading and killing is wrong. They are definately moving in the wrong way.
So debate about how you think of the current affair?

Well...Israel has been taking a beating for many years. Israel was again attacked by Hezbollah, who was unprovoked, but decided to capture an Israel soldier. There's nothing wrong with defending your land and removing some pests while your at it, is there?

[Hattori]

I'd have to agree that Israel is in the right - after all, the St. Petersburg announcement by the U.N. clearly stated that Hezbollah was the instigater of the conflict and had to be the first one to take steps to end it. Israel may be opportunistic here, but they are certainly justified in their assault. After all, if an enemy attacks you unprovoked and then retreats back to their territory, do you just throw up your arms and go, "oh well, guess we can't attack them now!"? That'd be the equivalent of the United States failing to retaliate for Pearl Harbor.

[Ai]

Lets see...

Lebanon isn't part of this conflict as a combatee...basically they have hezboula in their country and it's against hezboula that Isreal is fighting...Hezboula simply calls lebanon home..War has not been declared against lebanon by isreal simply against Hezboula...

Basically you can look at this whole conflict as a larger Terrorist movement if you wish to call Hezboula terriorists as Isreal is saying.

so far the lebanon government isn't highly panicked by the incursion of the Isreal troops into it's outer edges..Basically their millitary is currently on a high state of alert and is ready to act they say if Isreal tries to push their millitary forces North past Sidon...Not that they would really matter anyway because their millitary force sucks the ass...

Hezboula are a minority government party in Lebanon which is why Isreal probably has no quams about throwing missles at it's cities because they feel that they are partly to blame for whats going on..

Currently this is basically a small war on terrorism between Isreal and Hezboula...But the feeling in the UN and around the international community is one that they should bring it under control as soon as possible because they are afraid that it will escalate into a full blown large scale war in the middle east because syria and Iran are known supporters and millatry weapons backers of the Hezboula movement...so if Isreal decides to start a third front..who knows...

As far as Isreal are concerned they are fully within their international rights to pursue Hezboula to eradication because many in the international community view Hezboula as a terrorist group...

The only reason they were even admitted into the lebanese government as a political party was in the hopes that they would disarm and become a proper poplitical party...Oh look it backfired...

As for Isreal throwing missles at their citys in what they call 'Hezboula Targets" They seemingly have it right...Since Hezboula are a political party in the Lebanese government they have also been responsible for building many infastructes and government not to mention commercial buildings in their districts..So Isreal is probably hitting the right targets..

As to whether Isreal is justified in this largly agressive behavior towards that side of Lebanon is something for debate indeed..My personal opinion is that they went to far...But hey they're known for it... a while ago they released about 400 Hezboula prisioners in exchange for the three deceased bodies of their soldiers...And since Hezboula this time has two live soldiers whom they are refusing to surrender them back to the Isreal'e government who knows..But i do know Isreal overeacts in an insane amount..

As for Isreal taking a beating for many years i believe you can look back and notice the fact that that entire region has been taking a beating for many centuries..The middle eastern area concerning countries like Iran, Syria, Iraq, Israel and Lebanon have been a cooking pot of discontent for many a year...And they are all to blame...You can't keep on holding grudges...you have to lead by example....

[mooks]

This attack has nothing to do with the soldiers,
Hezbollah did not surprise Israel with the capture of the two Israeli occupation soldiers. Hezbollah leader Hasan Nasrallah has repeatedly warned that if Israel does not release its Lebanese prisoners, he will be compelled to take Israeli soldiers as bargaining chips. The 400 Hezbollah who were released 2 years ago were mainly Palestinians with connections... Most of them civilians inculding Shiite cleric Abdel Karim Obeid who support Hezbollah- that's why such a large exchange happened in such a short time..(Although why they released Lebanese guerrilla leader Mustafa Dirani, escapes me.)


And Israel has not been sitting idly by since its partial withdrawal from South Lebanon in 2000. It has not only continued to occupy parts of South Lebanon, but also has been violating Lebanese sovereignty, by air, sea, and land.

Furthermore, Israel has adamantly refused to give to Lebanon a map of the more than 400,000 land mines that it left behind in South Lebanon, and which continue to kill Lebanese children in the region.
The recent crisis, as the article in the Washington Post by Robin Wright pointed out yesterday, is an international/regional conspiracy to implement United Nations Security Council resolution 1559.
The groundwork for this aggression began with the work of Rafiq al-Hariri [the slain former Lebanese prime minister] in 2004, when he worked with the US and France to pass that resolution in the Security Council.

well, enough with the history and facts...
Here is the statement by Fouad Siniora (Prime minister, îf you don't know him)

As we were preparing for a new phase of reform and development, here we are again facing Israeli attacks that have killed civilians, destroyed the country's roads and airport, hit its main ports and violated Lebanon's sovereignty and its citizens' rights and dignity. Nothing is stopping this criminal war machine from murdering our people and leaving them homeless.
The government has stated that it was not aware of what was to take place and does not adopt the operation carried out by Hizbullah to capture the two Israeli soldiers. Israel has no right to devastate Lebanon, render its citizens homeless and destroy its ports. This makes us more dedicated than ever adhere to the government's sole right to protect Lebanon and the Lebanese from any threat or attack.
Lebanon cannot grow and develop if the government is the last to know and yet the first to pay the price. The government alone can make the decision of taking this country to war and peace because it represents the will of the Lebanese. United, we face the attack; and we will remain united through the state and its constitutional institutions.
Dear Lebanese,

Our government and people are facing fierce aggression, to which we will not surrender. While we take all the political and relief measures, I would like to remind you of what the Cabinet decided in its latest session: "We stress the Lebanese government's right to protect the country and citizens, preserve its security and safety and its right and duty to exert its control over all the Lebanese territory and make national decisions on the internal and international levels."
Accordingly, we urge an immediate cease-fire under the auspices of the United Nations, which would be able, in cooperation with sisterly Arab countries and the Lebanese government, to resolve all the problems that caused the latest clashes.
Secondly, we call for the establishment of the government's sovereignty in all Lebanese territory in cooperation with the UN ... and adherence to the Truce Agreement signed in 1949 and the Taif Accord.
Third, Lebanon urges its brothers and friends in the world to immediately help the Lebanese by either pressuring Israel to stop its attacks or providing humanitarian aid.
The Lebanese government holds the Israelis responsible for this humanitarian and economic catastrophe in Lebanon. We were still working on erasing the signs of the Israeli invasions in 1982, 1993 and 1996 and now Israeli aggression is targeting us one again.

[dragoneyes001]

this conflict was in the cards the second Hamas/Hezbollah got elected to run Lebanon.

they have been behind such a large percentage of bombings and other attacks on Israeli's that electing them to power was guaranteeing a fight.

also since Hezbollah since entering power has made every effort to antagonise Israel whats happening today actually falls under restrained.

people are quick to call foul when civilians get caught up in the conflict but try looking at it in Israeli eyes these are the same people who decided Hezbollah a known terrorist supporting group was just peachy a choice to lead them. they may be regretting their choice now.

Israel has never taken crap from those who attack them by military or otherwise the fact only one '72 Olympics terrorist is still living (only because he was in jail) is a prime example.

[AznPoi]

I'm scare this will escalate into WW3. I just turned 18 and I can't get out of draft until I'm 21. I hope it's a small time thing that will not require the US to draft soldiers.

[Littlelegs]

G.Bush better not bring the draft back...no!!!!

[dragoneyes001]

umm! you better look up a bit of history.

if you think US forces will get into the Israeli Lebanon conflict your completely ignoring the past.

besides Bush is trying to push your country to hate Iran to protect hegemony he's not going to get directly involved militarily in this conflict unless someone drops a nuke and everyone gets involved.

this conflict will continue till either Hezbollah loses so many leaders its incapable of fighting where israel will occupy some portions of lebanon for years to come (as a buffer zone) or if lebanon against all odds manages to inflict so many Israeli casualties that Israeli's call for peace. its pretty sure israel will be the decider of when enough is enough.

[saycheese]

its only a minor conflict atm, not a war yet. give it another week, and then you can predict for more accurate results(speed is of the essence here for israil). i am personally aginest the draft, conscripts should be a last resort(to act as reserves), aside from the waste of lives, it also increases criminal activity within the army. numbers would not be efficent aginest modern armies anyway.

edit: it should be "not really a war yet". i knew, i missed sumthin : o. also for the draft, i am refering to draft in america

[firebug]

There won't be a draft; today's war requires smaller elite units, not a bunch of rag-tag little boys waving around M-16's.

It is safe to say that unless you have elite tactical training in desert/urban warfare, you won't be drafted to that region.

[mooks]

Yeah, they have a right to defend their country... killing 300 in Lebanon(Mostly women and children), injuring over 2thousand and displacing half a million people is the aproppriate response to get 2 soldiers back... yeah right.

the thing is Israeli jet fighters are hitting everything...bridges, airports, civillian cars, civillian buildings, everything...there's no such thing as "Military targets" or hizbollah targets and the proof for this is that Manar Tv station which belongs to Hizbollah is still broadcasting live shows while a whole City (El Dahieh el janoubieh.. population more then 60k habitant) is completely down.(Oh, they bombed tv station it this morning) Massacres done by IDF is intentional even though they claim the opposite for a simple proof that it's being repeated day after day in the past 4 days and during previous wars....most of the civilian casualties (massacres) are done by direct hits on civilian targets by Israeli fighters..


Here is what is going on...
(HIGHLY GRAPHIC IMAGES: WARNING)
http://www.cmylebanon.com/images/thumbnails.php?album=lastup&cat=-207

http://lebanonheartblogs.blogspot.com/2006/07/warning-strong-pictures.html


I think a fundamental question about this is being ignored...

WHY NOW? Kidnappings, arrestings and exchange of fire has been happening there for while... Why at this exact moment?

The Israeli people are not daft at all... It's the government that implies such terrorism(In the literal sense) and injustice...
Thousands of Israeli's have been protesting in Beirut and tel-aviv. They don't want such atrocities committed in their name, AND they realize that such senseless atrocities is what breeds 'fundamentalism' and 'terrorism' with most of them shouting and holding slogans- 'we want peace for our children' (It's good to see people who value ALL human life-instead of the overly-priviledged)

http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2006/07/israelis_protes.php

Then again this is all avoided by the mass media- public opinion and actual events have no chance against political analysts and 'middle east experts'

[airswifter]

Basically...i tell you what breed "terrorism". Endless war and bombing is the root of terrorism. If everyone can have peace who will want to fight?Tolerating is a factor to breed harmony. If your neighbour irritated you, does it make sense for you blasting his head off? This is simply a vicious cycle, one side has to stop in order for it to happen.The more you kill, the stronger the resentment within a community.

Even you want to fight for peace, you should deal with North Korea first. They are even more nusaince compared to others.

Your Faithfully
Mr Peace

[Undying]

Thousands of Israeli's have been protesting in Beirut and tel-aviv.
Thausands? Perhas you should look closer. 200 hundreds Israelli were in Tel-Aviv, which just happens to be still outside the range of Hezbollah rockets. I'm wondering what would they be saying when a rocket blasts through their heads.

Listen, what would you do if a bunch of terrorists would start bombarding your country with no provocation from your side? Would you still be waving the banner of peace and love, while people (innocent citizens) are dying all around you? No, you'd be the first to suggest attacking the country which houses these terrorists and does not expell them. The current Israelli "inasion" into Lebanon is meant to completely destroy the Hezbollah, which is Israel's enemy. I want to see you sitting in your basement, waiting for the siren and the rockets, and still waving this "no, war is wrong we should be negotiating" falg of yours.

Listen, there can be no negotiation woth the Hezbollah because the entire reason for their existence is to destroy Israel. How on earth are you supposed to be negotiating with people who only care about killing you? That's how it is, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Also, unlike the Hezbollah, who give us no warning with the rockets, which causes the deaths that do occur (miraceoulusly, very few so far), while the Israelli air-force gives a two hour warning to the citizens. It is because the Hezbollah terroritst are hiding inside the populace that citizens are hurt. Trusts me, Israel has as little interest in this war as Lebanon.

Also, the Hezbollah is a part of Iran, which at the moment is attempting to establish its control over the Middle East. That's why almost all of the UN is supporting Israel right now.

And lastly, I ask again: would be waving this endless "you shouldn't fight you should talk" flag if it was you who is attacked? Somehow I doubt you are that much of a scumbag...

Hoping for peace forever,
Undying.

[mooks]

I got my info from a nice little link below that statement... I was misinformed- my bad

Maybe if Israel hadn't invaded Lebanon in '82, '93, and again in '96 Hezbollah would not have been so active and supported. and all of UN supporting Israel? Is that what Kofi Annan said yesterday?
Can you imaging getting a two hour warning in a city with a pop. est. 2million? why not make it three? I can't answer the question about innocent people dying all around me, hold on.. let me ask the lebanese.

Y'know, maybe you're right...

Get rid of the whole city with 23tons of explosives, and decimate their whole infrastructure, from airports and stations to sewage and waterworks, the deaths of a few hundred lebanese are obviously insignicant compared to the couple of terrorists and two soldiers they're after.



But those pictures tell me a different story...
Hezbollah are terrorists only to Israel, US and UK.. the EU and the rest of the world do not consider them 'terrorists' but a legitimate resistance group.
Ofcourse now.. they are 'engaging in terrorist activites' as the UN so eloquently put it...
Then again this has all to do with the 'UN Resolution 1559' and getting it to be inforced as quick and as hard as possible

But yeah, let's concentrate on that... forget all that lebanese suffering and innocent people gettin caught up...it's not important- don't even look at the pictures.

[Kyouka Suigetsu]

Ah, the wonders of humanity, we wouldn't be people without them. My personal opinion is that Israel has gone a bit too far, but I can hardly blame them. My response would probably be along the same lines. I'm hoping that within the next few decades an alien intelligence will decide to come down here and starts massacring people. This is probably the only thing that will bring humanity together by showing us how small we are and how petty are differences truly are, then we'll all die shortly after since the technology gap is too big for us to overcome our enemies.

[dragoneyes001]

I got my info from a nice little link below that statement... I was misinformed- my bad
Maybe if Israel hadn't invaded Lebanon in '82, '93, and again in '96 Hezbollah would not have been so active and supported. and all of UN supporting Israel? Is that what Kofi Annan said yesterday?
Can you imaging getting a two hour warning in a city with a pop. est. 2million? why not make it three? I can't answer the question about innocent people dying all around me, hold on.. let me ask the lebanese.
Y'know, maybe you're right...
Get rid of the whole city with 23tons of explosives, and decimate their whole infrastructure, from airports and stations to sewage and waterworks, the deaths of a few hundred lebanese are obviously insignicant compared to the couple of terrorists and two soldiers they're after.
But those pictures tell me a different story...
Hezbollah are terrorists only to Israel, US and UK.. the EU and the rest of the world do not consider them 'terrorists' but a legitimate resistance group.
Ofcourse now.. they are 'engaging in terrorist activites' as the UN so eloquently put it...
Then again this has all to do with the 'UN Resolution 1559' and getting it to be inforced as quick and as hard as possible
But yeah, let's concentrate on that... forget all that lebanese suffering and innocent people gettin caught up...it's not important- don't even look at the pictures.

mooks one question since you've been alive how many bombs have been detonated in israel by terrorists? and how many lives lost?
the israeli have never taken crap from anyone why would you expect them to start now. Hamas may as well be the shin-fen of the hezbollah when they got elected this fight was guaranteed.

[Undying]

@Mooks: Say, where do you live? How many rockets have fallen on/near to your house? Let me tell you a little story: I live in a rather peacful area in Haifa. The place is filled with aging people, kindergardens, schools, and generally a large amount of children and elderly people. A rocket has fallen within 50 meters of my house.

Ok, just in case you're a total dumbass and can't figure out why did I tell you about myself, I'll explain: in Israel, areas with many innocent citizens are being bombarded as I write these lines. How exactly do you expect the army and Isarel generaly to react? Should we just sit tight and wait for our deaths? We have every right to attack Lebanon, which houses those terrorists.

Now you've been posting propaganda about the citozens of Lebanon, showing us incredible pictures. Well, do you happen to know what happens in Israel? EXACTLY THE SAME. You're a total dumbass if you think otherwise, and generally misinformed if you think Israel is to blame here.

Lastly, do you really listen to what Kofi Ana says? That bribed idiot? Oh please. Since when did you become "expert" in the Middle East, and again, just how many rockets fell on your house?

[Random Havoc]

Reading all of this I ask myself how difficult it is to end a war when both sides are forced to ask for the death of their ennemy. As Undying said, they won't just be asking for negotiations while bombs fly overhead, they will want the other side to cease immediately, through any means necessary, even through their deaths. How then can this battle/war end? If a more powerful nation is to enter the fray and overpower 1 or both sides in order for all this to stop, what stops other nations from doing the same? That will just lead to a bigger war.

How then, do you stop this?

[prelude]

sorry mistake i was watching the first page!!!

[airswifter]

The best ideas is to change all the political parties in middle east. They are such a burden to international society. Oil going up and escalating deaths of civilains. They are all damn bastard.Reformat all middle east countries like america did to Iraq.

After Hezbollah and Iran out of Lebanon.....what will happen...
i can tell you isreal will have no peace still...This country has made enemies throughout the muslim world....

Although i am not a muslim but i can predict it can turn into a major war.More terrorist groups might be borned because of it. Many other countries might enter the fray. It is like China helped North Korea to push back American army.They are in the same group and ideology.

[AznPoi]

There is a possiblility that I think this will escalate out of hand. I mean sooner or later many countries are going to be like

"WTF is Israel doing bombing everything and killing civilians. I'm going to side with Lebanon."

Then the US will be like we've always had an alliance with Israel blah blah blah

Then the whole world will split into two.

Maybe i'm just a pessemistic.

[Nihsnek]

There is a possiblility that I think this will escalate out of hand. I mean sooner or later many countries are going to be like

"WTF is Israel doing bombing everything and killing civilians. I'm going to side with Lebanon."

Then the US will be like we've always had an alliance with Israel blah blah blah

Then the whole world will split into two.

Maybe i'm just a pessemistic.

Why would a "smart" country think that? They know the reason, it's not cold fusion science. You don't think Hezbollah isn't killing civilians? Is Israel really the bad guy here?

Once again:

Hezbollah and Iran out of Lebanon.

No justice, no peace.

Hezbollah and Iran out of Lebanon.

No justice, no peace.

[airswifter]

Many peoples just fight for the sake of revenge. The consequence might not be just cornered into particular corner. The world is connected. What if it triggered some war pact made by other countries?We are going to suffer as well.
War not equal to only solution. Forgiveness is a key to better future. Terrorists then has lesser reasons to use to terrorise us.
Why dont i suggest......The political leaders of both countries just take a knife each to fight themselves in some isolated island. Dont drag the people into the fray.

Why would a "smart" country think that? They know the reason, it's not cold fusion science. You don't think Hezbollah isn't killing civilians? Is Israel really the bad guy here?

Once again:

Hezbollah and Iran out of Lebanon.

No justice, no peace.

Hezbollah and Iran out of Lebanon.

No justice, no peace.

Lemme tell you.....both countries are bad....shame on them to disregard human rights.

Shame
Shame
Shame

[Nihsnek]

Many peoples just fight for the sake of revenge. The consequence might not be just cornered into particular corner. The world is connected. What if it triggered some war pact made by other countries?We are going to suffer as well.
War not equal to only solution. Forgiveness is a key to better future. Terrorists then has lesser reasons to use to terrorise us.

Your right. Let's forgive brutal savages! Let's see...if we forgive terrorist for there "mistakes"(they arn't), then they will also see kindness and stop attacking us! WRONG! These arn't kindergarden kids who have to say "sorry" to each other, they are grown men. Please use some common sense.

Why dont i suggest......The political leaders of both countries just take a knife each to fight themselves in some isolated island. Dont drag the people into the fray.

Hezbollah is a political leader!!? Didn't know that, ooh, wait, he's not. Why should we have to negotiate with terrorist? That would be like trying to ask Hitler to release all of the Jewish people back during the Holocaust.

Hezbollah and Iran out of Lebanon.

No justice, no peace.

Hezbollah and Iran out of Lebanon.

No justice, no peace.

Hezbollah and Iran out of Lebanon.

No justice, no peace.

Hezbollah and Iran out of Lebanon.

No justice, no peace.

[airswifter]

Hezbollah is a political leader!!? Didn't know that, ooh, wait, he's not. Why should we have to negotiate with terrorist? That would be like trying to ask Hitler to release all of the Jewish people back during the Holocaust.

Isnt that what Isreal doing now the same as Hilter? Bombing on "Targets" that are housing. Although i am not from both countries, i am deeply disturbed by what is going on....

[dragoneyes001]

Hezbollah is not a he its a group.

Hezbollah[1] (Arabic: حزب الله‎, meaning Party of God) is a Lebanese Shia Islamic group and political party, with a military arm and a civilian arm, founded in 1982 to fight the Israeli Defense Forces who occupied southern Lebanon until the year 2000. [2] Its leader is Hassan Nasrallah.

Hezballah was "inspired by the success of the Iranian Revolution"[3] and was formed primarily to combat Israeli occupation following the 1982 Lebanon War.[4][5][6] The United States and Israel claim that Hezballah receives financial and political assistance, as well as weapons and training, from Iran and Syria.[7] Syria and Iran admit supporting Hezballah, but deny supplying it with weapons.[8][9] Along with the Amal movement, Hezbollah is the main political party and military organization representing the Shia community, Lebanon's largest religious bloc.[10] Founded with the aid of Iran and funded by it,[11] Hezbollah follows the distinct Shia Islamic ideology developed by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, leader of the Islamic Revolution in Iran.[12]

Hezbollah is regarded by the Iranian[13] and Syrian[14] governments as a legitimate resistance, a view common in the Arab and Muslim world,[15] [16] and is a recognized political party in Lebanon, where it has participated in government.[17] The civilian wing participates in the Parliament of Lebanon, taking 18% of the seats (23 out of 128) and the bloc it forms with others, the "Resistance and Development Bloc", 27.3% (see Lebanese general election, 2005). It is a minority partner in the current Cabinet. The civilian wing also runs hospitals, news services, and educational facilities. Its Reconstruction Campaign (Jihad al-Bina) is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructural development projects in Lebanon.[18]

Hezbollah is considered a terrorist organization, by Israel,[19] the United States,[20] the United Kingdom,[21] and Canada.[22] The European Union does not list Hezbollah as a "terrorist organization", but does list Imad Mugniyah,[23] Hezbollah's senior Intelligence officer, as a terrorist. The EU also supports measures aimed at disarming Hezbollah.[24]


Origins
Scholars differ as to when Hezbollah came to be a distinct entity. Some organizations list the official formation of the group as early as 1982. (GlobalSecurity.org, 2005) whereas Diaz and Newman maintain that Hezbollah remained an amalgamation of various violent Shi’a extremists until as late as 1985 (Diaz & Newman, 2005, p. 55). Regardless of when the name came into official use, a number of Shi’a groups were slowly assimilated into the organization, such as Islamic Jihad, Organization of the Oppressed on Earth and the Revolutionary Justice Organization [citation needed]. These designations are considered to be synonymous with Hezbollah by the US[25], Israel[26] and Canada[27]

Hezbollah's strength was enhanced by the dispatching of one thousand members of the Irani Revolutionary Guards and the financial backing of Iran. It became the main politico-military force among the Shi’a community in Lebanon and the main arm of what became known later as the Islamic Resistance in Lebanon.[28]

Hezbollah follows Shi'ite Islamist ideology developed by the leader of the 1979 Islamic Revolution in Iran, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, but it has abandoned its goal of establishing a fundamentalist Shi'ite state in Lebanon.[29]

[edit]
Hezbollah during the Lebanese war (1982-1990)
[edit]
Combat Operations
After emerging during the civil war of the early 1980s as an Iranian-sponsored second resistance movement (besides Amal) for Lebanon's Shia community, Hezbollah focused on expelling Israeli and Western forces from Lebanon. It is the principal suspect[citation needed] in several notable attacks on United States, French and Italian Multinational forces, whose stated purpose was the stabilization of Lebanon: the suicide bombings of the U.S. Embassy, which killed 63, including 17 U.S. citizens; of the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut (see 1983 Beirut barracks bombing), which killed 241 U.S. servicemen; and of the French multinational force headquarters which killed 58 French troops. Hezbollah has always denied having any involvement with these bombings, although regarding them as justified. [citation needed]

Elements of the group have been linked to involvement in kidnapping, detention and interrogation of U.S. and other Western hostages in Lebanon by groups such as Islamic Jihad who claimed the hostage-takings were in retaliation to the detentions, hostage-taking and torture by the Israeli proxy army South Lebanon Army (SLA).




[edit]
The South Lebanon period (1990-2000)
The continued existence of Hezbollah's military wing after 1990 violates the Taif Agreement that ended the Lebanese civil war, which requires the "disbanding of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias" and requires the government to "deploy the Lebanese army in the border area adjacent to Israel." The Lebanese government did not try to disarm the Hezbollah during the 1990-2000 period, justifying its position by the fact that Hezbollah was a legitimate national resistance force, fighting for the liberation of the south, then occupied by Israel.

[edit]
Conflict in South Lebanon
See: South Lebanon conflict

Billboard in Southern Lebanon depicting Hezbollah martyrsSouth Lebanon was occupied by Israel between 1982 and 2000. Hezbollah, along with the mainly leftist and secular groups in the Lebanese National Resistance Front, fought a guerilla war against Israel and the Israeli proxy South Lebanon Army. The National Resistance Front militias disarmed in accordance with the Taif Accords, but Hezbollah remained defiant, claiming until all Lebanese soil was liberated and Israel expelled, resistance against occupation would continue. They had become by far the largest and most powerful and effective of the resistance organizations. The fighting culminated during Operation Grapes of Wrath in April 1996 when Israel launched an assault and air-campaign against Hezbollah. The campaign failed and resulted in the Israelis killing 106 civilians and refugees in an aerial bombardment of a United Nations base at Qana.(Grapes of Wrath operation)[4]

In January 2000, Hezbollah assassinated the commander of the South Lebanon Army's Western Brigade, Colonel Aql Hashem, at his home in the security zone. Hashem had been responsible for day to day operations of the SLA.[30]

On the 24th of May, "after the collapse of the SLA and the rapid advance of Hezbollah forces, Israel withdraws its troops from southern Lebanon, more than six weeks before its stated deadline of 7 July."[31] This was widely considered a victory for Hezbollah and boosted its popularity hugely in Lebanon.[32]

[edit]
Continued activities against Israel after 2000
Hezbollah's role in the Israeli withdrawal from southern Lebanon gained the organization much respect within Lebanon and the wider Arab and Islamic world, particularly among the country's large Shi'a community. The Shi'a are the single largest religious group in Lebanon, comprising at least 40% of the three million citizens (see Demographics of Lebanon). The Maronite Christian President of Lebanon, Emile Lahoud, said: "For us Lebanese, and I can tell you the majority of Lebanese, Hezbollah is a national resistance movement. If it wasn't for them, we couldn't have liberated our land. And because of that, we have big esteem for the Hezbollah movement."[33]

Since Israel forces left Southern Lebanon, Hezbollah has provided military defense of the area acting as the area's army. Despite no official declaration, the stated policy of the Lebanese Government has supported Hezbollah as the army of South Lebanon[34]. Fouad Siniora said that "the continued presence of Israeli occupation of Lebanese lands in the Chebaa Farms region is what contributes to the presence of Hezbollah weapons. The international community must help us in (getting) an Israeli withdrawal from Chebaa Farms so we can solve the problem of Hezbollah's arms," [5]


Clashes between Hezbollah and Israeli forces continued, albeit at a relatively low level, in the years following 2000[35]

[edit]
Hezbollah after the Israeli withdrawal

Hezbollah outpost near the Israeli border. This small outpost was built after the Israeli withdrawal.On May 25, 2000, Israel withdrew from Lebanon to the UN-agreed Israeli border, and their pullout was certified by the UN as complete.[36] Lebanon and Syria claim the Shebaa Farms, a 35 km² area, to be occupied Lebanese territory[37] despite the UN ruling, and on that basis Hezbollah has continued to engage Israeli forces in that area. The UN recognizes the Shebaa farms as part of the Golan Heights, and thus Syrian (and not Lebanese) territory occupied by Israel since the 1967 Six-Day War.

Israeli aircraft continue to fly over Lebanese territory, eliciting condemnation from the ranking UN representative in Lebanon. Hezbollah's retaliatory anti-aircraft fire, doubling as small caliber artillery, has on some occasions landed within Israel's northern border towns, inciting condemnation from the UN Secretary-General.[38] On November 7, 2004, Hezbollah responded to what it described as repeated Israeli violations of Lebanese airspace by flying an Iranian-built unmanned drone aircraft over northern Israel.[39]

Furthermore Hezbollah says Israel's withdrawal from southern Lebanon proves that the Jewish state only understands the language of resistance. They defend their right to keep their weapons as a deterrent against Israeli attack, to liberate the disputed Shebaa Farms border area, which is occupied by Israel.[40]


The former President of the German intelligence service BND, August Hanning, during the press conference in Beirut, regarding the German negotiated prisoner exchange between Israel and Hezbollah. January 30, 2004 see also Elchanan Tenenbaum.Hezbollah abducted three Israel Defense Forces soldiers during an October 2000 attack in Shebaa Farms, and sought to obtain the release of 14 Lebanese prisoners, some of whom had been held since 1978. On January 25, 2004, Hezbollah successfully negotiated an exchange of prisoners with Israel, through German mediators. The prisoner swap was carried out on January 29: 30 Lebanese and Arab prisoners, the remains of 60 Lebanese militants and civilians, 420 Palestinian prisoners, and maps showing Israeli mines in South Lebanon were exchanged for an Israeli businessman and army reserve colonel Elchanan Tenenbaum kidnapped in 2001 and the remains of the three Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldiers mentioned above, who were killed either during the Hezbollah operation, or in its immediate aftermath.

On July 19, 2004, a senior Hezbollah official, Ghaleb Awwali, was assassinated in a car bombing in Beirut. Hezbollah blamed Israel; credit was claimed, and then retracted, by a previously unheard of Sunni group called Jund Ash Sham, while Israel denied involvement.[41] According to Al-Arabiya, unidentified Lebanese police also identified the group as a cover for Israel.[42] Israel alleges that Hezbollah had been increasingly involved in training and arming Hamas (see section in this article: Hezbollah activities in the al-Aqsa Intifada.) This claim has been strengthened by Nasrallah's own words. In 2001 Jordan arrested three Hezbollah members attempting to smuggle Katyusha rockets into the West Bank. Nasrallah responded that "it is a duty to send arms to Palestinians from any possible place."[43] After Israel's assassination of Hamas spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, Hezbollah attacked the IDF along the Blue Line.[44] Most recently, during Awwali's funeral, Nasrallah proclaimed that Awwali was "among the team that dedicated their lives in the last few years to help their brothers in occupied Palestine,"[45] which some take to refer to aiding Hamas. On February 9, 2005 Palestinian Authority officials blamed Hezbollah for attempting to derail the recent truce between Israel and Palestine by offering increased funding and bonuses to the militant cells it operates in Israel for any attack they carry out.[46]

In June 2006, the Lebanese military arrested an alleged assassination squad led by former South Lebanese Army corporal Mahmoud Abu Rafeh. According to army statements, the cell was trained and supported by the Israeli Mossad and "used ... to carry out assigned assassinations in Lebanon." Among the killings attributed to the squad are those of Hezbollah officials Ali Saleh (2003) and Ali Hassan Dib (1999).[47]




[edit]
UN resolution 1559
On September 2, 2004, the UN Security Council adopted UN Security Council Resolution 1559, coauthored by France and the United States. Echoing the Taif Agreement, the resolution "calls upon all remaining foreign forces to withdraw from Lebanon" and "for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias." Lebanon is currently in violation of Resolution 1559 over its refusal to disband the military wing of Hezbollah[48][49]. Critics of the resolution argue however that an attempt from the weak and confessionally divided Lebanese army to disarm Hezbollah would be very difficult and could restart the Lebanese civil war. Syria was also in violation of the resolution until recently because of their military presence in Lebanon.

On October 7, 2004 the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan reported to the Security Council regarding the lack of compliance with Resolution 1559. Mr. Annan concluded his report by saying: "It is time, 14 years after the end of hostilities and four years after the Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon, for all parties concerned to set aside the remaining vestiges of the past. The withdrawal of foreign forces and the disbandment and disarmament of militias would, with finality, end that sad chapter of Lebanese history."[50]

The January 20, 2005 UN Secretary-General's report on Lebanon stated that "The continually asserted position of the Government of Lebanon that the Blue Line is not valid in the Shab'a farms area is not compatible with Security Council resolutions. The Council has recognized the Blue Line as valid for purposes of confirming Israel’s withdrawal pursuant to resolution 425 (1978). The UN Security Council has repeatedly requested that all parties respect the Blue Line in its entirety."[51]

On January 28, 2005 UN Security Council Resolution 1583 called upon the Government of Lebanon to fully extend and exercise its sole and effective authority throughout the south, including through the deployment of sufficient numbers of Lebanese armed and security forces, to ensure a calm environment throughout the area, including along the Blue Line, and to exert control over the use of force on its territory and from it.[52]

On January 23, 2006 the UN Security Council called on the Government of Lebanon to make more progress in controlling its territory and disbanding militias, while also calling on Syria to cooperate with those efforts. In a statement read out by its January President, Augustine Mahiga of Tanzania, the Council also called on Syria to take measures to stop movements of arms and personnel into Lebanon.[53]

The question of compliance with Resolution 1559 is a prominent matter in Lebanese politics. Prime Minister Fouad Siniora has stated that the government considers Hezbollah arms to be a domestic affair and that stated policy should reassure Hezbollah that the government will protect its military wing.[54]. Hezbollah was trying to convince the government to clearly state that the Shiite group's military wing was a resistance group, not a militia, and therefore did not have to comply with the resolution.

Druze leader MP Walid Jumblatt has repeatedly insisted that he objects to the disarmament of Hizbullah, according to the international resolution, describing the party as a "resistance group" and not a militia. He engaged in an electoral alliance with Hizbullah during last year's parliamentary election, with one of the titles of the alliance being "the protection of the resistance," but is now calling on Hizbullah to be integrated into the Lebanese Army and hand in its weapons over to the government.[55]

Saniora has more recently stated that "the continued presence of Israeli occupation of Lebanese lands in the Shebaa Farms region is what contributes to the presence of Hezbollah weapons. The international community must help us in (getting) an Israeli withdrawal from Chebaa Farms so we can solve the problem of Hezbollah's arms."[56]

[edit]
Hezbollah activities in the al-Aqsa Intifada
Main article: al-Aqsa Intifada

Recruits being sworn in – Beirut, November 11, 2001.In December 2001 three Hezbollah operatives were caught in Jordan while attempting to bring BM-13 Katyusha rockets into the West Bank. Syed Hassan Nasrallah, secretary general of Hezbollah, responded that "It is every freedom loving peoples right and duty against occupation to send arms to Palestinians from any possible place."[57]

During 2002, 2003 and 2004, the Israeli Security Forces thwarted numerous suicide bombing attacks, some of which Israel claims were planned and funded by Hezbollah and were to have been carried out by Tanzim (Fatah's armed wing) activists. Israeli officials accused Hezbollah of aiding Palestinian political violence and participating in weapon smuggling (see also: Santorini, Karin A).

On June 16, 2004, two Palestinian girls — aged 14 and 15 — were arrested by the Israeli Defense Forces for plotting a suicide bombing.[58] According to an IDF statement, the two minors were recruited by Tanzim activists.[59] On June 23, 2004, another allegedly Hezbollah-funded suicide bombing attack was foiled by the Israeli security forces.[60]

In February 2005 the Palestinian Authority accused Hezbollah of attempting to derail the truce signed with Israel. Palestinian officials and former militants described how Hezbollah promised an increase in funding for any occupation resistance group able to carry out an attack on Israeli military targets.[61]

Since the May 2000 Israeli withdrawal, Hezbollah has continued fighting the IDF around the disputed 35 km² Shebaa Farms area on the Lebanese-Syrian border.

[edit]
Hezbollah and the "Cedar Revolution"
After the assassination of Rafik Hariri in February 2005, Hezbollah strongly supported Syria through demonstrations. On March 8, in response to the demonstrations of the Cedar Revolution which resulted in Syria's withdrawal, Hezbollah organized a counterdemonstration, reiterating Hezbollah's rejection of Resolution 1559 and support for Lebanese-Syrian alliance.[62] It later won the greatest number of representatives in its history during the national parliamentary elections of May 2005, and was asked to join the government in July 2005 in the name of national unity. Hezbollah still retains its weapons, and the subject remains extremely controversial in Lebanon.

[edit]
Hezbollah following the "Cedar Revolution"
During the months following Syria's (Hezbollah's main backer) April 2005 withdrawal from Lebanon, international and domestic pressure has mounted on Hezbollah to dismantle its military wing and become solely a political party. On November 21, 2005 Hezbollah launched a heavy attack along the entire border with Israel which was intended to provide tactical cover for a squad of Hezbollah special forces attempting to abduct Israeli troops from the Israeli side of the village of Al-Ghajar.[63] The attack failed when IDF Paratroopers ambushed and killed 4 Hezbollah members and scattered the rest.[64] The IDF counter-attacked and destroyed Hezbollah's front line outposts and communication centers. The scope of the attack forced Lebanon (whose army does not control southern Lebanon) to request a cease-fire. Following the attack the UN Security Council denounced Hezbollah.[65] Commentators have speculated that the attack was an attempt to draw Israel into renewed conflict in Lebanon, alleviating diplomatic pressure on its backers Syria (which is under investigation for the assassination of Lebanese prime minister Rafiq Hariri) and Iran (which is under UN investigation regarding alleged violations of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty).[66]

On December 27, 2005, BM-21 Grad rockets fired from Hezbollah territory smashed into houses in the northern Israeli city of Kiryat Shmona wounding three people.[67] UN Secretary General Kofi Annan called on the Lebanese Government "to extend its control over all its territory, to exert its monopoly on the use of force, and to put an end to all such attacks."[68] Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora denounced the attack as "aimed at destabilizing security and diverting attention from efforts exerted to solve the internal issues prevailing in the country."[69] Hezbollah denied any responsibility or knowledge that an attack was going to take place.

[edit]
Post-Lebanese election
After the 2005 elections, Hezbollah held 23 seats (up from eight previously) in the 128-member Lebanese Parliament. It also participated for the first time in the Lebanese government that was formed in July 2005. Hezbollah has two ministers in the government, and a third is Hezbollah-endorsed. It is primarily active in the Bekaa Valley, the southern suburbs of Beirut, and southern Lebanon. The group is headed by Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah and is financed largely by Iran and Syria, though it also raises funds itself through charities and commercial activities.

In spite of having a foot inside the government, Hezbollah has been frequently at odds with certain members of Fouad Siniora's cabinet and in early 2006 formed an alliance with Michel Aoun (a former critic of both Hezbollah and Syria) and the Free Patriotic Movement. This new Shiite-Christian alliance aims at creating a new majority outside the 14 March forces and is likely to provide the basis for Aoun's presidency when Emile Lahoud's term expires in 2007.[70]

[edit]
2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict
This section documents a current event.
Information may change rapidly as the event progresses.

Main article: 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict
Further information: International reactions to the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict
[edit]
Political activities
Hezbollah is an active participant in the political life and processes of Lebanon. The organization has been involved in activities like building schools, clinics, and hospitals.[71][72]. In 1992, it participated in Lebanese elections for the first time, winning 12 out of 128 seats in parliament. It won 10 seats in 1996, and 8 in 2000. In the general election of 2005, it won 23 seats nationwide, and an Amal-Hezbollah alliance won all 23 seats in Southern Lebanon.

Mohamed Fneish was appointed Energy and Water Minister in the cabinet and has been quoted as saying "We are a political force that took part in the polls under the banner of defending the resistance and protecting Lebanon and got among the highest level of popular backing ... Hezbollah’s resistance (against Israel) does not in any way contradict its political role. If joining the government and parliament is a national duty, then so is defending the country.”[73]

[edit]
Foreign relations
Hezbollah claims that it forbids its fighters entry into Iraq for any reason, and that no Hezbollah units or individual fighters have entered Iraq to support any Iraqi faction fighting the United States. However, on April 2, 2004, Muqtada al-Sadr announced his intention to form chapters of Hezbollah and Hamas in Iraq.[74] He is not known to have consulted Hezbollah or Hamas before making this statement.

Hezbollah has been accused of having links to Al-Qaeda.[75] Since September 11, 2001 Hezbollah's alleged links with al-Qaeda came under more scrutiny. U.S. intelligence officials have stated they believe there has been contact between Hezbollah and low-level al-Qaeda figures that fled Afghanistan for Lebanon.[76] Many have even suggested a broader alliance between Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.[77] Such claims are dubious however since Al-Qaeda's Wahhabist ideology considers Shia muslims as infidels, which it has demonstrated in suicide bombings and attacks on Shia targets in Iraq.[78] Hezbollah has publicly denied having any ties with al-Qaeda,[79] and many sources have reported no connection between Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda.[80] Finally, Zarqawi issued an audio recording where he called the Hezbollah an "enemy of Sunnis" and a "shield" for Israel,[81] referring to the party's handling of the Lebanese border dispute with Israel.

In 2004 the Dutch internal security agency AIVD, concluded:

"Investigations have shown that Hezbollah’s militant wing, the Hezbollah External Security Organization, has been directly and indirectly involved in terrorist acts. It can also be concluded that Hezbollah’s political and terrorist wings are controlled by one coordinating council. This means that there is indeed a link between these parts of the organization. The Netherlands has changed its policy and no longer makes a distinction between the political and terrorist Hezbollah branches. The Netherlands informed the relevant EU bodies of its findings."[82]
It is widely believed that Hafez al-Assad and Hezbollah were closely linked; this did not significantly affect his relations with the rest of the world. Bashar al-Assad, his son and successor, has been subjected to sanctions by the U.S. due to (among other things, such as occupying Lebanon) his continued support for Hezbollah, which it views as a terrorist organization. However, on March 3, 2005, the Bush administration stated that it would consider Hezbollah legitimate if it disarmed, but also said that this did not represent a change in their view of the organization, which is unlikely to do so.

Those who consider Hezbollah to be a terrorist organization consider its sponsors (in particular Iran, Syria, and Lebanon) to stand in violation of UN Security Council Resolutions 1373 and 1566. Further, UN Security Council Resolution 1559 calls for the dismantling of Hezbollah and all other militias. Israel has lodged continuous complaints about Hezbollah's actions.[83] Israel has bombed several Syrian targets in retaliation for terrorist and guerrilla attacks by Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah that Israel claims were sponsored by Syria. An Israeli official said that those attacks are a "message to Syria to stop sponsoring terrorism."

[edit]
Ideology
The organization views an Islamic republic, on the Iranian model, as the ideal and eventual form of state. However, as their conception of an Islamic republic requires the consent of the people, and since Lebanon remains a religiously and ideologically heterogeneous society (see Demographics of Lebanon), their political platform revolves around more mundane issues.[citation needed] According to their published political platform in 2003, Hezbollah favors the introduction of an Islamic government in Lebanon by peaceful democratic means.

Hezbollah supports the destruction of the state of Israel[84] and co-operates with other militant Islamic organizations such as Hamas in order to promote this goal.

Hezbollah's ideology is based in the Shi'a tradition of Islam, specifically in the concept of "Willayat Al-Faqih" put forth by Ayatollah Khomeini and other Islamic scholars in Iran. Hezbollah seeks to set up an Islamic government in Lebanon modeled after the one in Iran.[citation needed] The following excerpt is taken from the group's political platform, first published in 1985: "The solution to Lebanon's problems is the establishment of an Islamic republic as only this type of regime can secure justice and equality for all of Lebanon's citizens." The Hizballah organization views as an important goal the fight against 'western imperialism' and its eradication from Lebanon. The group strives for complete U.S. and French withdrawal from Lebanon, including all their institutions.[citation needed]

The conflict with Israel is viewed as a central concern. This is not only limited to the IDF presence in Lebanon. Rather, the complete destruction of the State of Israel and the establishment of Islamic rule over Jerusalem is an expressed goal.[citation needed]

[edit]
Media operations
Hezbollah operates a satellite television station from Lebanon, Al-Manar TV ("the Lighthouse") as well as a radio station, al-Nour ("the light"). Qubth Ut Alla ("The Fist of God") is the monthly magazine of Hezbollah's paramilitary wing.

Al Manar broadcasts news in Arabic, English, French and Hebrew and is widely watched both in Lebanon and in other Arab countries. Its transmission in France (even via satellite, not by any station based on French territory) is controversial. It has been accused of promoting religious and racial hatred (against Jews), which is a criminal offense in France. On December 13, 2004, the French Conseil d'État, acting on the request of the French TV authorities, issued an injunction to Eutelsat to cease the broadcasting of Al Manar in France.[85]

The Hezbollah Central Internet Bureau in 2003 released a video game titled Special Force, intended to simulate Arab-Israeli conflicts from an Arab perspective.

[edit]
Armed wing, links to other armed groups, and designations as terrorist
The United States, Britain, Israel and some other Western countries consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization but throughout most of the Arab and Muslim worlds, Hezbollah is highly regarded as a legitimate resistance movement. [86]. The Lebanese government confirmed it as a legitimate resistance against occupation.[87] [88]

[edit]
Alternate names
Hezbollah has a military branch known as Al-Muqawama al-Islamiyya ("The Islamic Resistance"), and is the possible sponsor of a number of lesser-known militant organizations, some of which may be little more than fronts for Hezbollah itself. These organizations include the Organization of the Oppressed, the Revolutionary Justice Organization, the Organization of Right Against Wrong, and Followers of the Prophet Muhammad[89][90][91].

[edit]
Allegations of specific terrorist attacks
Hezbollah is believed by the United States and some other countries' intelligence agencies to have kidnapped and tortured to death U.S. Marine Colonel William R. Higgins and the CIA Station Chief in Beirut, William Francis Buckley without incontrovertible evidence, [92][citation needed] and to have kidnapped around 30 other Westerners between 1982 and 1992, including U.S. journalist Terry Anderson, British journalist John McCarthy, the Archbishop of Canterbury's special envoy Terry Waite and Irish citizen Brian Keenan.[93] Hezbollah was accused by the US government of being responsible for the April 1983 bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Beirut that killed 63; of being behind the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing, a suicide truck bombing that killed 241 U.S. Marines in their barracks in Beirut in October 1983; of bombing the replacement U.S. Embassy in East Beirut on September 20, 1984, killing 20 Lebanese and two U.S. soldiers; and of carrying out the 1985 hijacking of TWA Flight 847 en route from Athens to Rome. These accusations are denied by Hezbollah.[94]

It is claimed that Hezbollah had a hand in the terrorist attacks in Argentina in 1990 and 1994: the Israeli Embassy Attack in Buenos Aires and the AMIA Bombing, respectively.[95][96] Hezbollah denies these claims.[97]

Hezbollah has denounced some acts of terror, such as the September 11 attacks,[98] GIA massacres in Algeria, Armed Islamic Group attacks on tourists in Egypt[99], and the murder of Nick Berg.[100] However, it expresses support and sympathy[101] for the activities of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, Islamist groups responsible for suicide attacks and armed resistance in Israel and the Palestinian territories.

[edit]
Designation as terrorist organization
Hezbollah has been labeled a terrorist organization by the United States,[102] the United Kingdom,[citation needed] the Netherlands,[103] Canada, [104] Israel and Australia,[105] but not by the European Union.[106]

In a non-binding resolution adopted by the European Parliament on 10 March 2005, the MEPs urged the EU Council to brand Hezbollah a terrorist organization. However, the Council has so far been reluctant to do so, as France, Spain, and Britain fear that such a move would further damage the prospects for Middle East peace talks.[107] The EU has, however, agreed to block Hezbollah's Al-Manar television from European satellites in order to enforce European regulations against "incitement to racial and/or religious hatred."[108]

[edit]
Military Wing
The goverment of Lebanon has accepted Al-Muqawama al-Islamiyya as an arm against occupation of Lebanese land. The P.M. of Lebanon said that "the continued presence of Israeli occupation of Lebanese lands in the Chebaa Farms region is what contributes to the presence of Hezbollah weapons. The international community must help us in (getting) an Israeli withdrawal from Chebaa Farms so we can solve the problem of Hezbollah's arms," [6]

The United Nations has called for the disbanding of Hezbollah's military wing in UN Security Council Resolution 1559.

[edit]
Armed strength
Its strength is disputed, and has been variously estimated as "several thousand" [109] and "several thousand supporters and a few hundred terrorist operatives"[110].

[ron]

Just thoughts that people seem to have forgotten or not have known because of lack of information and digging:
We seem to be forgetting what happened after Israel left Lebenon. The Hezballa only has certain types of missles that can work at a certain range. The Lebonese governenment promised the Israeli's that when they left, the Hezbehella would not be able to get near that boder. Obviously that has worked well.

About the deaths, 150 have died in a population of 671 million. That's not a lot. Im not saying it's right, but look at the ratio. And this COUNTS the Hezbellah people killed, not just civillians. The last thing Israel wants to do is kill people. They even went so far as to go to Palestine a few years ago door to door and look for terrerorists, killing 12 soldiers that the country the size of New Jersy cannot spare. Instead of just sending missles to Gaza, they endangered themselves so not to kill civillians. They could have easily done this without loss of Israeli's

These people are hiding behind their citizens, and using schools and homes as shields. The Israeli's have been warning the people to leave their homes in order to give them a chance to escape, something that Hezbelleha did not give the same consideration to the Israeli's. When a 19 year old is killed in Palestine, people danced and chanted around the limbs that the soldiers couldnt take back with them because he was so dismembered. Have you EVER heard an Israeli do that?

Israel can only restrain so much. They can easily take on Lebenon without the loss of Israeli soldiers, but instead don't, and put themselves at risk. Israel is so small, they need everyone they can get.

Solution: there is none. The only way is to seculerize the school systems in Arab countries and make them realize that free thought and ideas aren't just Westeren things. This war isnt just against Israel and Lebenon, but democracy and the West. The Osolo Accords were a failure, just to postpone the invetibable by ignoring the three major points of Israel and Palestine: Refugees, boders, and Jeruslem and giving Arafat more time to attack Israel. We cannot have another "solution" like this one.

agh sorry this is so long, i kinda ranted longer than i thought T_T

[Nihsnek]

hitler in real life wasnt as bad as american propagenda is making him to be, and war has always involved rape, pillage and the loss of civlian lives. that has never changed.

Hitler wasn't that bad in real life. He killed 6 million Jews. Don't reply with some nonsense like "Hitler isn't to blame". I'm sick of people trying to take the blame off all of the truely evil people and put it on innocents.

[airswifter]

Based on encarta real meaning of terrorist...

somebody using violence for political purposes: somebody who uses violence or the threat of violence, especially bombing, kidnapping, and assassination, to intimidate, often for political purposes

One country kidnapped 2 people and bombing.
Another bombing and uses violence.

Bombardment is alright but rebuilding is a tough progress...i dont think the isrealis is prepared to help....lebanon then have to ask for international aids..or UN....
That is unfair for us. All you do is to destroy, we, tax payers of other nations need to foot the bill for you....:(


Respect Human Rights....do the right thing
From start...what is democracy......what is right and what wrong...can human really define them??
The best way is to let them decide what kind of country they are building......That is how life should be..
Like china....people are happy despite in a communist state..
What makes them so? No one can answer...
That's how the world works.

[ron]

China is happy? That is impossible to tell because no one is allowed to see the slums of China without the governments consent. The reason China is happy for now is because they are socialist.

The U.N. is just a title. They don't really care about what is happening, they are just anti-Israel. A majority of the countries there are third world Arab countries. A few years ago terrorists crossed over the boder, kidnapped, tortured, and killed two Israeli soldiers. They sent a tape to the U.N. The U.N. NEVER gave Israel that tape to find out who did it. To this day, the U.N. is hiding that tape, the men who did this got away, no punshiment.

The last thing on your mind should be how are we going to pay for it. It's not America's problem. We aren't going to send troops there, Israel wouldn't want us to. It's their war. They don't need the U.S.'s troops, so a draft is just out of the question. Don't worry.

[saycheese]

Hitler wasn't that bad in real life. He killed 6 million Jews. Don't reply with some nonsense like "Hitler isn't to blame". I'm sick of people trying to take the blame off all of the truely evil people and put it on innocents.

dude, get some facts straight and do some research. and once again, do not put words into people's mouths.

@ ron - people are saying how the war can escalate and turn into a bigger war, which may have american involvement, and if it gets nasty, the draft could be in place.

edit: ah w/e i mite as well explain it. i said, hitler WASNT AS BAD, as the AMERICAN PROPAGENDA is making him to be. i did NOT say he isnt to be blamed.

[Nihsnek]

dude, get some facts straight and do some research. and once again, do not put words into people's mouths.
@ ron - people are saying how the war can escalate and turn into a bigger war, which may have american involvement, and if it gets nasty, the draft could be in place.

I know the facts. I did do research.

edit: ah w/e i mite as well explain it. i said, hitler WASNT AS BAD, as the AMERICAN PROPAGENDA is making him to be. i did NOT say he isnt to be blamed.

Why exactly did you say this in the first place? It really had no relevance to the topic.

Anywho, back to the subject, just had to make a comment.

[KT Samurai]

Hitler was a prick. How can anyone try to soften to blow against his name? It's well deserved, as history points out. Sure, he wasn't such a bad guy while he fought in World War I (the sneaky bastard actually took a whole trench's worth of his enemies hostage somehow) and he certainly wansn't hurting anyone while he was trying to become a painter. But seriously, when he started making a bid for power and his opponents started dying myteriously I think we can all safely say that he was a frickin' scum bag.

Anyway, while it's an interesting topic we shouldn't jack the thread entirely with talk of how ****ing evil Hitler was or wasn't. Let's get back to this Lebanon crap.

So, yeah. This whole conflict doesn't make any sense. It's a long, long history of attacks, counter attacks, counter attacks to counter attacks, and just plain needless killing. Why all the fuss? Because two religious groups simply refuse to see eye to eye. They can't accept that someone might be different than them. Hell, one side has pledged to never stop fighting as long as the other side even exists (hint: it's not Isreal). That's fanaticism at it's worst.

Both parties are to blame. No one's really stepped up and said, "Hey. This is silly. Let's stop." They hate each other way too much.

As someone pointed out earlier, Israel did, at one time, pull out of certain sections of certain countries for peace (whether they wanted peace themselves or were pressured into it I can't say). What did the liberated countries do with their new land and spare time? Pursue peace? No, they dug a friggin' hole for a future surprise attack and ended up taking Israeli soldier(s) (I thought it was one, but the stuff I'm reading now is sayin' 2) hostage. Wow! What a great use of peace time!

[Nihsnek]

""Both parties are to blame. No one's really stepped up and said, "Hey. This is silly. Let's stop." They hate each other way too much.""
(can't get that to quote for some reason)
Well, it's a bit hard to negotiate with terrorist. But yea, they both have such strong hate towards each other, something they won't be able to talk away.

As someone pointed out earlier, Israel did, at one time, pull out of certain sections of certain countries for peace (whether they wanted peace themselves or were pressured into it I can't say). What did the liberated countries do with their new land and spare time? Pursue peace? No, they dug a friggin' hole for a future surprise attack and ended up taking Israeli soldier(s) (I thought it was one, but the stuff I'm reading now is sayin' 2) hostage. Wow! What a great use of peace time!

2 hostages, yea. It's pretty sad that some people have no morals as humans.

[dragoneyes001]

thats the problem isn't it both sides decided to elect hard ass leaders and look what it got them!

neither side is inocent where their votes went so I'll be damned if all this "the civilians are suffering" has much meaning for either side.

if you elect assholes to lead you and you wind up in a war don't whine when people are getting killed because of your votes and the same stands true of people who voted Bush into second term.

theres a reason the term hardliner exists this does not mean vote for the weak just don't vote for the one you know is looking for a fight.

lebanon put Hamas and Hezbollah into office and israels Prime Minister Ehud Olmert’s is no saint either.

this war will be over a lot faster than people seem to believe unless some outside force enters it.

[ron]

Israel doesn't hate Lebenon. They disagree, but as long as the Lebenon people didn't attack Israel, they would be fine.

And it's not like Israel has not tried for peace. They offered Arafat everything, all of Israel, except Jeruslem, and the Palistians refused. They won't be happy till Israel is dead. We can't have that. If something like the Holocaust ever happens again, the Jews need a place to go. That is why it is so important and why the Israeli people are so bent on protecting it, no matter the cost. They take "never again" pretty seriously. If all the countries of the world reject the Jews again, they always will have a place to go. Never again will they be helpless.

[airswifter]

Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice was set to arrive in the Middle East on Sunday, though she ruled out a quick cease-fire as a "false promise."

President Bush said his administration's diplomatic efforts would focus on finding a strategy for confronting Hezbollah and its Syrian and Iranian backers.

Bush is always bending for war.....that's who he is.....I love Bill Clinton!!

U.N. humanitarian chief Jan Egeland said it would take more than $100 million to help the displaced. He said he would make an appeal "urging, begging" the international community for contributions.

See.....in the end....it still causes outsiders some money.....Damn it...

[KT Samurai]

Yeah, I'm sure Israel doesn't hate Lebanon for all those rocket attacks, suicide bombings, and other lovely junk that's been thrown their way. I'm sorry, buddy, but there's gotta be some hate there. Israel wouldn't be prowling around in their assault aircraft all the time if they didn't hate everyone who has messed with them.

Besides, how can you speak for the Israeli people like that? Unless you happen to live there or have ever been there I'll remain skeptical of your statement.

And you make it sound like we're all Jew-hungry or something. Israel wants the holy land for the same reason everyone else does -- it's holy! They have sacred ground there, and they don't want anyone else soiling it. Sadly, they couldn't claim it all because, as fate would have it, other faiths have laid claim to the exact same spot. Funny how that works out, jan.

[TheSixth]

I'm sure this has alredy been posted but i [I]really[I] don't have the time to look through tree pages of debate and (I KNOW THIS POST IS VERY LONG BUT PLEASE TAKE THE LIME TO READ IT). Anyways, here is my opinion on the issue: i think that isreal is using the capture of their two officers as an excuse to invade Lebannon and rid the country of the Hezbollah (spelling?). Also, i'm sure you've all noticed that the U.N. and the U.S. are doing absolutely nothing, Israel COMPLETLY relies on U.S. support which includes tank parts, billions of dollars, economic support, ect. This conflict would be over within days with a single call from the U.S. cutting them off from all support, but since the U.S. won't do anything the U.N. won't either. Lastly, the Israeli Prime Minister claims that the invasion of Lebannon is just to rid the country of the Hezbollah, which has a much stronger military force than the Lebanese government, but when Israel gets their troops spread throughout Lebannon whose to say that they wouldn't just overpower them and take over. However, this would provoke the U.S. and U.N. into action, starting a new war, which Israel smart enough to aviod. With Israel on the brink of possible nuclear war, Hezbollah missiles claiming many innocent lives, and the world powers going on as if they approve of Israel's actions, the world seems to be falling down a path of relentless wars and terrorism. I look forward to a good debate later when the thread picks up.

[mooks]

Let's keep the debating to just that- and refrain from any name-calling or deliberate instigating... We don't wanna get this thread closed because two people go out of their way to offend each other.. I'm not gonna name names... (What is Terrorism? Can developed nations perfrom this act? :thread: )

Israel definetely hates lebanon-

Lebanon definetely hates Israel... it's just how it is...

Again... why do people not get the point?

Yes... Hezbollah should not have attacked Israel, and vice versa...
BUT if one thinks there was peace and two soldiers got kidnapped out of the blue... You're greatly mistaken-

Besides... Israel is bringing a gun to a fist fight, in terms of porportion.
In the end the facts remain the same-

"The death brings the number of people who have died so far in the fighting to at least 301. Before Sunday's attacks, the IDF said 35 Israelis, 15 of them civilians, had been killed. At least 266 Lebanese people have been killed, according to officials."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/23/mideast/index.html

[TheSixth]

Was that targeted at me? :confused:

[airswifter]

Latest News
Palestinian militants in Gaza fired three rockets at
Israel early Sunday, despite reports that they had agreed to halt such attacks.


Palestinian officials said earlier that the main militant groups — Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades — had agreed to stop firing rockets if Israel calls off its Gaza offensive.

Palestinian militants entered the fray into attacking isreal.....

This thing just simply gets out of hand....Someone must stop that wide spreading suffering.

~Peace~

[mooks]

Was that targeted at me? :confused:


I wasn't talking about you!! don't worry...

I was referring only to those it implies...

[ron]

To reply to some statments:

I don't believe this thing would be over if the U.S. cut off economic sanctions with Israel. That would just leave Israel helpless against Hezbahella and every single country sournding them. Terrorists aren't going to stop just because the the world "condems it". Look through history, that has worked well.

The Jews want Israel for the its holiness, I agree. But when the Jews owned Jeruslum, they allowed any Arab in who wished to go. When the Arabs owned it, no one was allowed in, and the state went to hell.

About the deaths, its terrible. I really wish it wasn't happening. But why condem only Israel when Americans are going around killing thousands of Iraqi's? Or Darfur is killing thousands, maybe even millions of their own people? Every single year 100-200 Israeli's die from terrorists attacks, civillians at malls (that time the only deaths were kids between the ages 5-17) and buses. But the world doesn't react. It's just a tiny headline on the news maybe. No one has a U.N. meetings or even bothers to condem the Palistinians. When another 10 Israeli soldiers die, and their bodies not returned to their families, no one cares. I would be quiet interested to see if anyone reacted or was suprised, or even cared to all the history I have given about the U.N. being anti-Israel and all of the times that Israeli's have died.

War has changed, there is no honor in it, no "I'm offically going to declare" so the other side knows. Now, your enemy hiding behind innocent people I dont know what else you can do to ensure protection of your people. Israel has been restraining for too long, and if they really wanted to, they could destroy all of Lebenon easily without the loss of Jewish life.


By the way, this forum is really good with respecting other people's opion and it's nice that this topic can be debated without harrasment, espically considering my opion appears to be the minority. Just wanted to say I appreciate it ^_^

[TheSixth]

An interesting opinion. But i think you underestimate just how much Israel relies on foreign, mainly U.S., support. I was exagerating a bit when i said it would be over within days, but i think you'd be suprised at how quickly Israel would start pulling back troops and starting negotiatons. But you are right about the U.N.'s inaction during this crisis when Israel is at the brink of all out war.

As for Iraq, i think that we should have pulled all of our troops back a few months ago. The U.S. is hated around the world, even thought we have spend trillions of dollars over the past 50+ years rebuilding war-torn countries during the Cold War, and we aren't doing any good there. U.S. troops will continue do die in Iraq needlesly when they could be with their families, bu that is entirely different subject.

[airswifter]

Basically, I belong to the type of people that love peace....Peaceful resolution as an ultimate way of handling thing. I will not bear to kill a single soul...that's my wish. You may disagree.....but hopely the bombing will soften abit in coming days....

Peace People

[dragoneyes001]

I wasn't talking about you!! don't worry...
I was referring only to those it implies...

he was talking about me and nihsnek who by the way have not even responded to each others posts in this thread so its quite out of place to mention.

as far as the UN is concerned only war crimes will become an issue the conflict between israel and Lebanon has existed so long no one at the UN is delusional enough to think any sanctions will do anything there are not many outside actions that would change anything resolutions are purely to try and get both sides to realise how far they are going.

also since peace keeping is only brought about when both sides ask for it during a cease fire or when one side asks specifically for protection there's not likely to be peace keepers brought into the middle.

its not likely the israelis will ask for foreign troops to guard their borders and its just as unlikely the lebanese will want a buffer between them and israel since its hard to allow the teens to chuck rocks at the troops if there's 1/4 mile of peacekeepers between them. needless to say that quarter mile would be in the most disputed territory so both sides would not like it.

war especially urban warfare is not civilian exclusive the moment troops hide among the population the civilians no longer have the safety of being civilians its the troops on the side who retreats among the civilian population's responsibility to evacuate them from the war zone in other words if the Hezbolla want to use rockets and guns to fight the israeli and then go hide in populated areas its their fault if locals get hurt because they are the ones who drew the fire to the civilians. yes they would be quickly slaughtered if they didn't hide as they are. but its still their fault if others get hurt. the Hezbolla are a valid target for the israelis and they actually do have the right to follow them back to their retreated hideouts unfortunately that means people who are not fighting will get hurt or killed there's no way they can avoid this and again its Hezbollah's fault if they cared so much about the civilians they would not be hiding among them. besides those rockets they have been tossing Israels way are literally tossed at areas not specific targets which means they are making no effort to avoid civilian casualties why should the world be upset only about lebanese civilians and not upset about israeli civilians?

I'm not for either side but I do recognise that israel has more standing as the agressed prior to this conflict if the Hezbolla has awakened the tiger by poking it with a stick they will suffer the clawing they deserve.
there are decades of bad feelings and actions from both sides antagonising each other and israel is just as much to blame for some of its actions in the past but in this fight we as outside observers better think before we cry "poor civilians" and make decisions based on that cry when one of the main combatants is purposely getting its own civilians dragged into the conflict all the while purposely targeting the civilians of its opponent. yes Hezbollah is the one group who is causing the most civilian deaths by their actions and its Hezbolla that should be condemned for it.

[Kootje]

I think this is alll about the U.S, because of there economic suport, and military suport as well, Isreal feels powerfull, I don't now exactly how this started but it's gotten out off hand! U.S makes a big difference, since they support it's not like a country other than libanon is going to stop isreal! Everyone is scared to do a thing, 'cause they don't want conflict/war with U.S! Btw I hate BUSH(Bush=Monkey)

[Nihsnek]

I think this is alll about the U.S, because of there economic suport, and military suport as well, Isreal feels powerfull, I don't now exactly how this started but it's gotten out off hand! U.S makes a big difference, since they support it's not like a country other than libanon is going to stop isreal! Everyone is scared to do a thing, 'cause they don't want conflict/war with U.S! Btw I hate BUSH(Bush=Monkey)

All about the US? Do more research before you post opinions. This war is over years, and years of unprovoked attack on Israel. Finally, once Hezbollah captured 2 innocent Israeli soldiers, UNPROVOKED, Israel said "enough with it". Israel has given Lebanese people notice of bombs that would hit targets. As you know, probably not, Hezbollah has setup several missile sites in residential homes. That's right, using human shields. Israel can trace the vapor trails from missiles fired, and they bomb that site back. So, duh, if a terrorist was in my house sending off bombs to innocent people, I would either: a) Kill that idiot before anything was set off or b) Get the hell out of there and live to fight another day. Who is the real bad guy here? You decide.

Also, don't post your opinions of Bush on a topic over Israel and Hezbollah, it's unnecessary.

Hezbollah and Iran out of Lebanon.

No justice, no peace.

[Kootje]

I'm sorry, you're right i should do more research.

[Delta]

I think this is alll about the U.S, because of there economic suport, and military suport as well, Isreal feels powerfull, I don't now exactly how this started but it's gotten out off hand! U.S makes a big difference, since they support it's not like a country other than libanon is going to stop isreal! Everyone is scared to do a thing, 'cause they don't want conflict/war with U.S! Btw I hate BUSH(Bush=Monkey)

I dont think that most nations are afraid of war with the US because of this conflict, I think most countries are afraid of this conflict spiraling out of control and dragging the rest of the world into it. Thats why some countries that have traditionally been against Israel condemning the acts of Hezbollah, even though they also say Israel is using excessive force.

[ron]

Once again some thoughts to think about:

I agree, the United States has HUGE amount of control over Israel because it is the only country that trades with them. But we aren't going to stop supporting them because Bush is very pro-Israel. The reason is is when Bush went to the Middle East when he was only a senator/govenor (I'm not sure which) Ariel Sharon, before he was prime minister, showed him all over Israel and gave him a huge tour of the country and its history. Bush was greatly moved. No other country in the Middle East sent anyone out to greet him. Strange how a few years later, Bush became president and Ariel Sharon became prime minister, and when Israel was in trouble, Bush was there to help. Just makes you think how the little things can sometimes come back.

But I'm afraid we don't need to worry about Israel negotiating (sorry can't spell). Israel has negociated with Palistian plenty of times, Egypt, Jordan, given land back that they have taken over in order to secure peace. Now, I may be biasing a bit, so for the benifit of the doubt, I doubt Israel will want to negociate with anything except for the destruction of Hezbehella, because last time the Lebenonese government didn't hold up their end of the bargain. But let's say we do stop economic sanctions to Israel, and they do agree to pull out and negociate out of desperation, how do you negociate with terrorists when they attacked with no purpose? What do they want? What do you give them? Israel? Not going to happen. Besides the fact that they don't need to worry about the support of the world when they have Syria and Iran providing them with plenty.

p.s. TheSixth, your banner is awesome!

[TheSixth]

Once again some thoughts to think about:
I agree, the United States has HUGE amount of control over Israel because it is the only country that trades with them. But we aren't going to stop supporting them because Bush is very pro-Israel.
But I'm afraid we don't need to worry about Israel negotiating (sorry can't spell). Israel has negociated with Palistian plenty of times, Egypt, Jordan, given land back that they have taken over in order to secure peace. Now, I may be biasing a bit, so for the benifit of the doubt, I doubt Israel will want to negociate with anything except for the destruction of Hezbehella, because last time the Lebenonese government didn't hold up their end of the bargain. But let's say we do stop economic sanctions to Israel, and they do agree to pull out and negociate out of desperation, how do you negociate with terrorists when they attacked with no purpose? What do they want? What do you give them? Israel? Not going to happen. Besides the fact that they don't need to worry about the support of the world when they have Syria and Iran providing them with plenty.
p.s. TheSixth, your banner is awesome!

Thx ron. Anyways, the Lebanese government isn't in a position to do much right now since the Hezbollah have more power than their military. Also, what are you talking about :confused: ?! Syria and Iran aren't exactly pro-Israel, unless you were referring to the Hezbollah.

[ron]

ha sorry, I was refering to Hezbellah

[chipp zanuff]

First of all, I think it’s stupid to say (innocent soldiers),and it’s really ridicules to say that Israel want to save the 2 prisoner, while Lebanon has hundreds and hundreds of prisoners in the Israeli prisons, and why are they bombarding the civilian people? Why don’t they fight Heizb Allah only? And if anyone will say that Hezb Allah also do the same they, I’ll say that Hezb Allah don’t use an Internationally banned weapons like Fission bombs and Bombs phosphoric substances, it’s war racist with flimsy pretexts .
Until now more than 800 were killed by Israel and more than 4000 were injured by them too, also they target the Relief trucks and International forces, now Lebanon needs milliards of dollars for Reconstruction. Is this for 2 prisoners!!!
I think that Olmert and Perez who came from diplomatic background want to proof to Israeli people that they can be like Sharon, they can kill innocent people and do massacre.
Anyway, Hezb Allah has the right to fight Israel because of:-
1_trying many times to kill Hasan Nasr Allah.
2_the Arabian prisoners in Israel
3_ the Israeli Network spies in Lebanon.

[Delta]

Anyway, Hezb Allah has the right to fight Israel because of:-
1_trying many times to kill Hasan Nasr Allah.
2_the Arabian prisoners in Israel
3_ the Israeli Network spies in Lebanon.

So those 3 things give Hezbollah the right to kill innoent civilians? You've gotta be kidding me.

[chipp zanuff]

and what about israel? daes it have the right to kill Lebanon just for 2 soldiers, please read all the post before saying anything

[Delta]

and what about israel? daes it have the right to kill Lebanon just for 2 soldiers, please read all the post before saying anything

I did read the post, and I never said Israel had the right to do what it's doing, you assumed that, I just think justifying the death of innocents is bullshit.

[Nihsnek]

So those 3 things give Hezbollah the right to kill innoent civilians? You've gotta be kidding me.

Lol, i'm going to have to agree with Delta here.


Although, Israel does have the right to defend themselves.

[prelude]

ok now u are saying that one has the right to kill and another doesnt! its all wrong if u ask me defending or attacking its the same thing cause innocent people end up dead and its no laughing matter!

[TheSixth]

With Condaleeza Rice's speech yesterday (spelling?) the U.S. pretty much just stated that they are supporting Israel here, not that i can say i'm surprised. However, with the deaths of those four U.N. peacekeepers along the Israel-Lebannon border, hopefully the U.N. will be shocked into action.We are so close to all-out war in the middle east right now it's frightening, and nobody seems to give a damn. The people with the power to make a difference aren't doing anything, while the people who can't make a difference can only discuss our opinions with one another.

[Nihsnek]

ok now u are saying that one has the right to kill and another doesnt! its all wrong if u ask me defending or attacking its the same thing cause innocent people end up dead and its no laughing matter!

Oh geeze...someone needs to go back to Reading English 101.

I SAID Israel has the right the defend themselves. It's just like standing up for yourself.

Example: If you were being bullied by this one big meanie at school over and over, eventually you would take action. Either it be a) going crazy and shooting up the school or b) beating the shit out of him and expose him who he really is, a loser.

Well, since your so set on peace, why don't you go take a visit and talk to Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah on your ideas, i'm sure he would understand.

[mooks]

Yeah, defend yo self...

Although I don't know what hospitals, schools, tv stations, airports and UN outpost stations have to do with it...

Since they decided to hault all dialogue and recognition of Hezbollah... the attack was unprovoked- out of the blue...

But yeah! 300 civilians dead and counting- since they kidnapped 2 soldiers and killed 29(15 of them soldiers)- they are totally in the right... this is defense.

And since they are hiding within civilians... Get rid of them all. Even if they hide in mosques, or hospitals- they've never been there... but they have 'intelligence' that 'confirms' this...

Only they have a right to defend themselves.. since they are totally innocent and they are just, well... y'know

[dragoneyes001]

you are aware when dead a hezbollah member suddenly becomes a civilian?

only the top tier will remain publicly recognised as hezbollah but the average grunt firing off those missiles will be made into a civilian casualty simply to bull-crap the numbers.

don't ever believe numbers during war they are geared solely towards propaganda. I should know while we knew the numbers of dead to be in the hundreds of thousands the press was still belching forth that only tens of thousands <<<< which should have been taken as a massacre but the lower numbers had their effect nations sat on their asses.

plus like I've said before the lebanese civilian population ELECTED hamas and Hezbollah to represent them now that they get exactly what those two groups were gunning for they complain! don't even try to tell me the people who voted for those groups had no idea what either group stood for politically and they sure as hell DID know they were going to start a fight with Israel.

so explain why now that they are getting turfed for their own decision we as the world should run in to stop what they initiated because they don't like the outcome. seriously if you see someone pissing off a pitbull by kicking it will you blame the pitbull for biting them?

[mooks]

So they act more like pitbulls than people...

Hezbollah, take great pride in their martyrdom- ever since 1982 lebanese war-it's no secret.

I don't see exactly how the number of civilian casualties are propaganda... is it the ideological views established by repetition rather than verification or mass suggestion (broader strategic methods). I'm confused.

I think it's widely confirmed that the use of force is inhuman and terrorizing...
Besides... this is all just to attract the attention of the even more radical factions to come out of the wood-work. Just a few more hospitals and schools down... and every arab resistance group will come a-calling. Then, it's open season on radical islamists. Perfect reason, cover and justification to go all out in the region. And if Iran get's involved, perfect- that'll be two down one more to go (axis of evil thing)

Let's just sit back and watch... it's gonna get intense...

[dragoneyes001]

So they act more like pitbulls than people...
Hezbollah, take great pride in their martyrdom- ever since 1982 lebanese war-it's no secret.
I don't see exactly how the number of civilian casualties are propaganda... is it the ideological views established by repetition rather than verification or mass suggestion (broader strategic methods). I'm confused.
I think it's widely confirmed that the use of force is inhuman and terrorizing...
Besides... this is all just to attract the attention of the even more radical factions to come out of the wood-work. Just a few more hospitals and schools down... and every arab resistance group will come a-calling. Then, it's open season on radical islamists. Perfect reason, cover and justification to go all out in the region. And if Iran get's involved, perfect- that'll be two down one more to go (axis of evil thing)
Let's just sit back and watch... it's gonna get intense...

its simple if Israel kills 200 Hezbolla grunts the infantry level and after they are killed Lebanon proclaims them as civilian deaths it becomes a load of crap being fed to the media to alter world opinion against Israel.

do yourself a favor don't ever believe the numbers the press is feeding you.
you really think the US only killed a few civilians while bombing Iraq? there are thousands that never made the press releases and in this case the numbers are being fudged in the opposit way. unfortunatly a sixteen year old who was a grunt for Hezbollah once he's been hit by a rocket looks exactly as any civilian: DEAD.

[mooks]

So all the numbers and images are just propaganda... eyewitness accounts and videos, freelance press-all of it. Interesting
So basically, the whole town, well a couple of towns are just all Hezbollah fighters...

[dragoneyes001]

your talking 300 people out of how many million?

yes some civilians actually are but don't be naive to think they all are.

do you think the 10 year old in vietnam who tosses a gernade into a bar and is subsequently killed by troops is a civilian? its a kid but he still killed people to get himself killed.

by the way eye witnesses and video of civilian deaths where are these links.
because if they have filmed all three hundred deaths then you might be able to argue they were all civilians but thats unlikely at best.

and you keep missing the point those civilians are the ones who put the radicals into power so how can you justify whining that they are getting killed because their leaders started the fight thats killing them. if someone jumps off a building will you blame the building for being high enough to kill them?

[mooks]

Oh, it's out there... I even posted a couple of links on the first page... But that's some really gruesome footage-

And it's kinda insenstive to show such things when there are people from that region around here...

But if you've heard of 'media scrape' or 'Internet Broadcast Corp' then you should check the site out... it has footage from both sides-powerful stuff. All done mainly by freelancers and locals.

http://www.ibctoday.com/News/Home.aspx

About:
'Internet Broadcast Corp has signed agreements with both leading news agencies and wholesalers, including Reuters, Associated Press, Canadian Press and Dogan News Agency (a leading Turkish news agency). Internet Broadcast Corp broadcast partners include local television broadcasters from Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan.

Daily, Internet Broadcast Corp publishes between 70-90 (over 1.5 hours) global news video clips. Internet Broadcast Corp content is updated throughout the day, 7 days per week. Internet Broadcast Corp's global & local broadcast partners provide multi-perspectives on global news from local sources. Internet Broadcast Corp produces English subtitles rather than voice-over to ensure integrity of the original content.

Internet Broadcast Corp encourages individuals around the world to submit their news stories, providing a venue for empowered individual journalism as the most democratic form of news reporting.'

[Vampyrelord]

Isreal's behaivour is simply barbaric. Of course their reaction is disproportionate! 2 of their soldiers are kidnapped, so they reply by devastating an entire region! Isreal are worse terrorists than the terrorists.

No good will come from this invasion, mark my words.

[Delta]

I've been thinking about reasons for Israel's responce to kiddnaping of 2 soldiers, and I had this thought. Israel is a country where a very large majority of the population has at least been a part of the military at some point or another right? Well if 2 soldiers are captured and Israel did nothing, dont you think it would undermine the country's confidence in the military taking care of them? In a country where almost everyone is in the military at one point or another you want know know that if you are captured your country will do everthing it can to bring you back. I dunno, just a thought, if anyone sees any holes in it point it out plz, i'd like to develope this idea a bit more.

[Nihsnek]

Isreal's behaivour is simply barbaric. Of course their reaction is disproportionate! 2 of their soldiers are kidnapped, so they reply by devastating an entire region! Isreal are worse terrorists than the terrorists.

No good will come from this invasion, mark my words.

So if terrorists in Cuba began launching conventional missiles at the United States and killing and terrorizing the civilian populations of Miami, Atlanta, and New Orleans, your response would be to simply launch few conventional missiles back? In your 'rules of friendly warfare', would we be allowed only to launch one missile for every missile fired at us? You are joking around, right?

Do you have even a remote understanding of what is going on in that part of the world or do you simply allow your head to be filled with "diptsy dumpster trash" provided by the propagandists in the non-American media? (ABC, CBS,NBC, CNN, NY Times, Washington Post, etc.)?

Israel is outnumbered 100 to 1 in that region. What would you do if you were them, throw spitballs? Do you have any concept of what it takes to ensure the survival of a nation?

I think you must have been kidding...you had to be. No American would ever think like this.


Also, in spite of this, I would like everyone to take a minute and read this:


For those who don't know, Dennis Miller is a comedian who has a show called Dennis Miller Live on HBO. He recently said the following about the Mideast situation:

"A brief overview of the situation is always valuable, so as a service to all Americans who still don't get it, I now offer you the story of the Middle East in just a few paragraphs, which is all you really need.

Here we go: The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about that: There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word.

Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years. Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern invention Before the Israelis won the land in the 1967 war, Gaza was owned by Egypt, the West Bank was owned by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians."

As soon as the Jews took over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the "Palestinians," weeping for their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation."

So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" anymore to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our deaths, until someone points out they're being taped. Instead, let's call them what they are: "Other Arabs who can't accomplish anything in life and would rather wrap themselves In he seductive melodrama of eternal struggle and death." I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN.

How about this, then: "Adjacent Jew-Haters." Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own country. Oops, just one more thing. No, they don't. They could've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, especially two years ago at Camp David but if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to figure out some way to make a living. That's no fun. No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region want: Israel.

They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course - that's where the real fun is - but mostly they want Israel. Why? For one thing, trying to destroy Israel - or "The Zionist Entity" as their textbooks call it - for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward on God's Earth, and if you've ever been around God's Earth . . . you know that's really saying something. It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic about the great history and culture of the Muslim Midleast.

Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since Algebra, and, by the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one.

Chew this around and spit it out: 500 million Arabs; 5 million Jews. Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear that, if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, everyone will be pals. Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what about the string of wars to obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths to drive every Jew into the sea? Oh, that? We were just kidding.

My friend Kevin Rooney made a gorgeous point the other day: Just reverse the Numbers. Imagine 500 million Jews and 5 million Arabs. I was stunned at the simple brilliance of it. Can anyone picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite to themselves? Of course not.

Or marshaling every fiber and force at their disposal for generations to drive a tiny Arab State into the sea? Nonsense. Or dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Impossible. Or spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their bread with the blood of children? Disgusting. No, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the worst Jews would ever do to people is debate them to death.

Mr. Bush, God bless him, is walking a tightrope. I understand that, with vital operations in Iraq and others, it's in our interest, as Americans, to try to stabilize our Arab allies as much as possible, and, after all, that can't be much harder than stabilizing a roomful of super models who've just had their drugs taken away. However, in any big-picture strategy, there's always a danger of losing moral weight. We've already lost some.

After September 11th, our president told us and the world he was going to root out all terrorists and the countries that supported them. Beautiful.

Then the Israelis, after months and months of having the equivalent of an Oklahoma City every week (and then every day), start to do the same thing we did, and we tell them to show restraint.

If America were being attacked with an Oklahoma City every day, we would all very shortly be screaming for the administration to just be done with it and kill everything south of the Mediterranean and east of the Jordan.

Please feel free to pass this along to your friends.

Walk in peace! Be Happy! Have a wonderful life

[ron]

First off, this is not the first time Lebenon has taken Israeli soldiers. And they also didnt just take 2 soldiers, they ran over the border, where they shouldn't have been allowed in the first place, according to the deal, killed 8, and than ran back with 2 in hopes to negociate the release of their own people in Israeli prisons. You ask sympathy for these people? Have you noticed that the Amnesty for Human Rights thingy (the ones that makes sure POW are treated right) have not even TRIED to check up on the soldiers taken? When Israel had Palistian refugees, the commitee was up in arms. And you say only two soldiers, try telling that to their parents. These soldiers are kids, and their families don't even know if they're alive. And even if the Human Rights place asked to see the soldiers, which they haven't even attempted, I doubt Hezbellha would comply.

And about numbers. It seems Israel is held at higher standards than the rest of the world, and thats just not fair. 300 people in Iraq die a DAY, and the world doesn't react. Darfur is killing thousands of its own people, and I don't see anyone doing anything. But when Israel kills 300 people in 11 days after an unprovoked attack, suddenly the U.N. and the Great 8 are invovled. The news is totally slanted. Even the people in Lebenon, the Christans and Druids, are supporting Israel. They know that once Hezbehlla is out of Lebenon, then they can really be a democracy.

Also, Hezbehlla is not a country. We shouldn't be reffering to it as if it were its own. It's a terrorist group. There is no negocitating or trying for a cease fire. I'm sorry to say, but it's impossible to end this peacefully. With the destruction of Hezebellha, this will aslo greatly weaken Iran, who has always threatened to use Hezbehlla as a weapon if anything were to happen.

[ron]

Btw, Nisnehk (sorry for spelling) that Dennis Miller thing was great and competely true. Thankz for showing it.

[Nihsnek]

300 people in Iraq die a DAY, and the world doesn't react. Darfur is killing thousands of its own people, and I don't see anyone doing anything. But when Israel kills 300 people in 11 days after an unprovoked attack, suddenly the U.N. and the Great 8 are invovled. The news is totally slanted. Even the people in Lebenon, the Christans and Druids, are supporting Israel.

You sir, are absolutely correct.

Also, Hezbollah is not a country. We shouldn't be reffering to it as if it were its own. It's a terrorist group. There is no negocitating or trying for a cease fire.

Again, another valid point. Just if some people could understand this ...

[dragoneyes001]

looks like people from my country are getting involved we have the pleasant task of investigating the bombing of the UN building at least we're trusted to give an unbiased report on what we find out.

[mooks]

First off, this is not the first time Lebenon has taken Israeli soldiers. And they also didnt just take 2 soldiers, they ran over the border, where they shouldn't have been allowed in the first place, according to the deal, killed 8, and than ran back with 2 in hopes to negociate the release of their own people in Israeli prisons. You ask sympathy for these people? Have you noticed that the Amnesty for Human Rights thingy (the ones that makes sure POW are treated right) have not even TRIED to check up on the soldiers taken? When Israel had Palistian refugees, the commitee was up in arms. And you say only two soldiers, try telling that to their parents. These soldiers are kids, and their families don't even know if they're alive. And even if the Human Rights place asked to see the soldiers, which they haven't even attempted, I doubt Hezbellha would comply.
And about numbers. It seems Israel is held at higher standards than the rest of the world, and thats just not fair. 300 people in Iraq die a DAY, and the world doesn't react. Darfur is killing thousands of its own people, and I don't see anyone doing anything. But when Israel kills 300 people in 11 days after an unprovoked attack, suddenly the U.N. and the Great 8 are invovled. The news is totally slanted. Even the people in Lebenon, the Christans and Druids, are supporting Israel. They know that once Hezbehlla is out of Lebenon, then they can really be a democracy.
Also, Hezbehlla is not a country. We shouldn't be reffering to it as if it were its own. It's a terrorist group. There is no negocitating or trying for a cease fire. I'm sorry to say, but it's impossible to end this peacefully. With the destruction of Hezebellha, this will aslo greatly weaken Iran, who has always threatened to use Hezbehlla as a weapon if anything were to happen.

So by your logic... we should forget whats happening to the lebanese because there are other atrocities going on in the world? And who exactly is forgetting!?

I dunno what news outlet you rely on- but people are really concerned over here(Euro-news outlets, BBC, canal+) that nobody is seeing how Israel is taking this opportunity to 'arrest' Palestinian politicians- and advance there military efforts-such as the missile attack in gaza that killed a couple of kids(ooh, and a suspected militia-so it wasn't a total waste) And the tanks that moved into refugee camps also in Gaza...

And I'm not sure exactly who in Lebanon is welcoming this invasion... considering that the majority of the people actually support Hezbollah-

And considering the 2 soldiers.. the reason why Amnesty or other International humanitarian organizations have not gotten involved is because of the circumstances...

On june 24th, when Israel abducted two Gaza civilians, a doctor and his brother. We don't kn