Our own power or powerlessness

[Fect]

We all know or think we have a certain power to take our own discourse and change the world, or we persuade others to do it for us.

This thread is designed to discuss our own power to do things, in general, and more specifically whether we can or not.

But can we truly change the world? Even united can we? And how?

[dragoneyes001]

nice topic this will go in many directions.

i'll wait for now before posting a few idea's that may or may not work.

the 60's shows that changes can be made by the masses do we actually have the will to implement what we decide is worthy?

[Jack Van Burace]

I have some sort of power, since I can debate reasonably fine, and since I can take on ppl that try 2 use fisical violence against me ^^

There were these guys in college, and they really suck. Like, they mock a girl that has coordination problems (something about complications during birth). They try 2 get ppl in low jobs fired if they don't do their biddings (cuz they know these ppl really can' argue back). They talk bad about ppl in their faces using obvious codes that everyone can figure, but they can play fools and deny if u say they're talking about u. Well, during the Argentina vs. Germany world cup match, they came 2 play the fools and decided 2 stop exactly in front of the bar's tv, blocking exactly my view alone...

I pushed them off, and one of them tryed 2 provoke me still. I w8ed till next time we met, when it was THEY who weren't expecting, and as I found them I threw a slap in the provoker's face, out of the blue. I called his bluff, and payed back at same coin. He then got mad and came back at me, but not just he didn' harm me (cuz he was disoriented), but he got lot's of punches in the forehead (where it doesn't leave a mark). He felt, and his '$-h0le' friend came and tryed 2 provoke me too, pushing my girlfriend, 2 which I responded w/ a well given slap in their face :-)

Bottom line: the college security didn't meddle in, as I knew would happen, but as they didn' expect, cuz I know they don't wanna face any sort of lawsuit, so they turn a blind eye for common fights, only appearing after it's over. And so far Ive NEVER HEARD ANY COMPLAINTS AGAIN about those charachters, as they figured out they couldn't do whatever inside the campus, and not get punished for it. So yes, I did changed a bad part of the world, and didn' get caught bcause I was already ending my graduation earlier than any punitive process could take place (I knew this was gona happen in advance too, lol).

EDIT: And yes, I did kept hearing Kill Bill's whistling song in my head afterwards, for days... X-D

[mooks]

Hell yeah! Slap those fools!

I hope he had a red handmark on his face...

I work for an NGO called ACT International (Action by Churches Together)- Where I am currently the media consultant. Basically, ACT gathers information on humanitarian disasters and conflict- then draw plans for stablizing and rehabilitating the population affected in the area. Another way we differ from your average NGO- is that we try to find sustainable ways for people to help themeselves and solutions for long-term sustainability. It doesn't really have much to with religion or creed- it relies more on the promises Churches make to help with donations or other things they preach about. We just make sure they keep their promises.

The work that they do is Humanitarian aid- I recently finished a flash-show showing the response effort by ACT in south east asia Tsunami and earthquake disasters..
http://act-intl.org/news/dt_nr_2006/act_video-tsunami.html

And that's my voice...

We differ from other organizations such as Oxfam, ChristianAid and CARE because we don't spend the majority of our budget on advertising, supply and communications. And we don't compete! (I think that's the main one)

ACT has done more work in it's ten year existence- than other NGO's 50yrs anniversary of commitment and work-who require certain restrictions and guidelines.


I strongly believe in the power to change the world, from an individual's efforts- that's how people come together in the first place

[Hisaki]

Changing the world... It would be difficult. Perhaps impossible. Uniting ourselves to do so would be agonizing at best. "The Irony of Democracy: Masses in America" is a great example of this; as long as someone in power opposes anything at all, there's a good chance that a resistance can be formed against it.

For example, the study asked a group of people two questions: One, do you support programs that care for the needy? The majority replied "Yes." Two, do you support welfare? The majority replied "No." But welfare is a program that helps the needy, so why the sudden change in attitude? The answer lies in the understanding of welfare that has been propagated throughout the masses.

In America, at the least, we have a very limited understanding of just how much power we have in government workings. In the 2004 elections, for example, Georgia voted for Bush before even 50% of the votes had been counted. Georgia's representatives in the Electoral College felt that they liked Bush's views more, so they decided to give Georgia's votes to him instead of waiting to see how the people of Georgia felt. Most people don't even know the Electoral College exists, or that its function is to elect the President, while the votes of the populace really mean nothing. But, we're fooled into thinking that we have some say in our matters.

The members of Congress have also shown themselves to be less than able in some matters. The Net Neutrality bill would keep the Internet as it is now, instead of changing it into a place where the highest bidder gets to have their websites shown while those with little or no money lose all rights to their webpages. Yet the senator advocating it doesn't even seem to know how the Internet works, from his disjointed ramblings, and some senators are in opposition to it, due to a lack of knowledge and/or desire for personal gain that could come from the stratification of the Internet. In that case, does Congress truly represent our interests? Do they have the knowledge to make informed decisions about matters, or will they vote based on what they think is right, and not what's truly right?

All of these factors together present a gigantic obstacle to any form of unity. If a group of bureaucrats decided that they didn't want unity among world nations, they could simply take existing information and phrase it in such a way that it would seem unappealing to unify. A little propaganda here and there wouldn't hurt either. The majority of people would simply believe it, because so few people do research about what they hear; they simply take it at face value, not stopping to consider if it's actually true or not. The Electoral College could elect a President that opposes unity, if it's within their interests, regardless of the populace's desire for a united world. Congress in itself could have its own reasons to oppose unity, or, again, propaganda and cleverly altered statements could be used.

These are just the machinations of the United States itself. Each nation has its own faults, its own weak points in its infrastructure. Undoubtedly, each nation also has its own cadre of corrupt government officials that would oppose even the most sensible and helpful measures. With these problems in the way... Unity, and even our own sense of having any real power in matters, may be a hopeless dream.

[Jack Van Burace]

Hell yeah! Slap those fools!
I hope he had a red handmark on his face...
I work for an NGO called ACT International (Action by Churches Together)- Where I am currently the media consultant. Basically, ACT gathers information on humanitarian disasters and conflict- then draw plans for stablizing and rehabilitating the population affected in the area. Another way we differ from your average NGO- is that we try to find sustainable ways for people to help themeselves and solutions for long-term sustainability. It doesn't really have much to with religion or creed- it relies more on the promises Churches make to help with donations or other things they preach about. We just make sure they keep their promises.
The work that they do is Humanitarian aid- I recently finished a flash-show showing the response effort by ACT in south east asia Tsunami and earthquake disasters..
http://act-intl.org/news/dt_nr_2006/act_video-tsunami.html
And that's my voice...
We differ from other organizations such as Oxfam, ChristianAid and CARE because we don't spend the majority of our budget on advertising, supply and communications. And we don't compete! (I think that's the main one)
ACT has done more work in it's ten year existence- than other NGO's 50yrs anniversary of commitment and work-who require certain restrictions and guidelines.
I strongly believe in the power to change the world, from an individual's efforts- that's how people come together in the first place

Yes, NGO's are very nice! I hope someday they come 2 take on many governmental areas, cuz taxes are always diverted, and are non optional. NGO's are supported by choice, and thus they always represent a true social need. Even tho I support that no1 HAS 2 b part of a group 2 have a voice, coming toghether for a purpose is very important, and many heads think better than just one ^^

[tortuegenial]

yes there are some things that we can change with time because we have the power voice our opinions and persuade people to do what we perceive to be good.
but then again I dont think that we have enough power to change some certain things in this world, take say racism for example. There are some people that are simply born into the idea and it gets engraved in their heads for the rest of their lives, no matter what you do or tell them they will still have this opinion because thats just simply how they look at the world.
They've been looking at it in this way ever since they were children and it is almost impossible to change. The amount of hate groups in america and around the world is shocking to the point that it is even scary. I think with the history of some countries and the ideologies that they continue to carry makes their people extremely difficult to persuade.
Even such things as communism and religion.
I have seen this before my eyes and they just do not want to hear the real and true things, they have no interest whatsoever and I think in this way there lies no hope.

[mooks]

Changing the world... It would be difficult. Perhaps impossible. Uniting ourselves to do so would be agonizing at best. "The Irony of Democracy: Masses in America" is a great example of this; as long as someone in power opposes anything at all, there's a good chance that a resistance can be formed against it.
For example, the study asked a group of people two questions: One, do you support programs that care for the needy? The majority replied "Yes." Two, do you support welfare? The majority replied "No." But welfare is a program that helps the needy, so why the sudden change in attitude? The answer lies in the understanding of welfare that has been propagated throughout the masses.
In America, at the least, we have a very limited understanding of just how much power we have in government workings. In the 2004 elections, for example, Georgia voted for Bush before even 50% of the votes had been counted. Georgia's representatives in the Electoral College felt that they liked Bush's views more, so they decided to give Georgia's votes to him instead of waiting to see how the people of Georgia felt. Most people don't even know the Electoral College exists, or that its function is to elect the President, while the votes of the populace really mean nothing. But, we're fooled into thinking that we have some say in our matters.
....

....If a group of bureaucrats decided that they didn't want unity among world nations, they could simply take existing information and phrase it in such a way that it would seem unappealing to unify. A little propaganda here and there wouldn't hurt either. The majority of people would simply believe it, because so few people do research about what they hear; they simply take it at face value, not stopping to consider if it's actually true or not. The Electoral College could elect a President that opposes unity, if it's within their interests, regardless of the populace's desire for a united world. Congress in itself could have its own reasons to oppose unity, or, again, propaganda and cleverly altered statements could be used.
These are just the machinations of the United States itself. Each nation has its own faults, its own weak points in its infrastructure. Undoubtedly, each nation also has its own cadre of corrupt government officials that would oppose even the most sensible and helpful measures. With these problems in the way... Unity, and even our own sense of having any real power in matters, may be a hopeless dream.


I agree and believe me, I understand hopelessness like no other. Coming from Kenya, Africa... Corruption should be our capital's name. But such dire realism, and grim optimism- I believe is just as dangerous as corruption itself... Kenya is now on it's way to reform- for a nation that once upon a time, bribery actually took up a percentage of the country's gross domestic product, has now almost stamped out corruption from civil factors... And I also think that having a vision of a united world is also quite dubious- that is true.

But instead think of what is possible, and what can change... I don't believe i can change the world, working where i work- but i know i can change the lives of a couple families in Darfur or in south India...

Take Cuba for example- despite the trade embargo(which nobody fully understands how damaging this is) and well-funded propaganda... It now has free education and a free health care system- only a dream in the US...

We may not be able to change the whole world- but changing a part of it-however small, is still a change for the better

[Jack Van Burace]

Well, I wouldn't take Cuba as an example, as they have absolutely no freedom. Fidel killed all who disagreed w/ him at the begining of comunist Cuba, and as u end school in there, u're obligated 2 pursue the profession appointed 2 u by the government. Like, no matter what u do, if u wanna b a doctor, but there are construction workers missing, u HAVE 2 professionalize in construcion worker and carry cement thru the rest of your life. Also, u can't have entertainment besides the arts provided by the government. Your kids will b begging for foreigners 2 get as much as a simple crayon, cuz they're not entitled 2 have that. Food is always the same too: salad(tomato, letuce and carrot), chicken wing, pork meat, and rice. U can't have anything else, ever. And no, I'm not kidding!

I want peace and equal rights for everyone too, but taking away freedom is not a choice. We need education 2 make things right. That's all.

[mooks]

Well, I wouldn't take Cuba as an example, as they have absolutely no freedom. Fidel killed all who disagreed w/ him at the begining of comunist Cuba, and as u end school in there, u're obligated 2 pursue the profession appointed 2 u by the government. Like, no matter what u do, if u wanna b a doctor, but there are construction workers missing, u HAVE 2 professionalize in construcion worker and carry cement thru the rest of your life. Also, u can't have entertainment besides the arts provided by the government. Your kids will b begging for foreigners 2 get as much as a simple crayon, cuz they're not entitled 2 have that. Food is always the same too: salad(tomato, letuce and carrot), chicken wing, pork meat, and rice. U can't have anything else, ever. And no, I'm not kidding!

I want peace and equal rights for everyone too, but taking away freedom is not a choice. We need education 2 make things right. That's all.

I ain't talking about the beginning of communism in Cuba- which is socialist now..



The Cuban Project? Operation Mongoose? Just wiki those two events...

Same food, entertainment, cars from the past- Like I said, trade embargo and Helms-Burton Act. THIS is what i'm talking about- no one understands and it will take too long to get into... maybe i'll make a new thread to address this form of economic strangulation and alienation- Infact wiki 'Helms-Burton act' too....

And despite Venezuelan assistance and external financing from trading partners such as the European Union and China, the average Cuban's standard of living remains at a lower level than before the downturn of the post-Soviet period. State salaries continue to fail to meet personal needs under a state rationing system chronically plagued with shortages. As the variety and amount of rationed goods available declines, Cubans increasingly turn to the black market to obtain basic food, clothing, household, and heath amenities. In addition, petty corruption in state industries, such as the pilferage of state assets to sell on the black market, is common. This is the way of life in Cuba- unfortunately.. it has much more potential than anyone thought possible... But

I love Cuba- my sister-in-law comes from there and she is part of 'Committees for the Defense of the Revolution' , and I'm going there this Christmas (before i am shipped to Israel...)
And i stay in Matanzas, not near the beach- not Havana

[Hisaki]

I agree and believe me, I understand hopelessness like no other. Coming from Kenya, Africa... Corruption should be our capital's name. But such dire realism, and grim optimism- I believe is just as dangerous as corruption itself... Kenya is now on it's way to reform- for a nation that once upon a time, bribery actually took up a percentage of the country's gross domestic product, has now almost stamped out corruption from civil factors... And I also think that having a vision of a united world is also quite dubious- that is true.
But instead think of what is possible, and what can change... I don't believe i can change the world, working where i work- but i know i can change the lives of a couple families in Darfur or in south India...
Take Cuba for example- despite the trade embargo(which nobody fully understands how damaging this is) and well-funded propaganda... It now has free education and a free health care system- only a dream in the US...
We may not be able to change the whole world- but changing a part of it-however small, is still a change for the better

I can't really argue with that; any change for the better is something to be appreciated. However, we could be making larger changes, if only we had a desire to help other nations in greater ways.

For example, consider if you will a farm plot that's 700 by 500 feet. It can grow a decent amount of food, let's say for 5 people.

Now, be a bit abstract. Consider building a skyscraper that's 700 by 500 feet. Extend it upwards, say, 50 stories (I'm not sure if this is structurally possible, to be honest, but humor me). If the conditions on each floor were the same as a greenhouse, altered a bit when necessary to be more accomodating, you could effectively replicate the farm plot 50 times over in the same amount of space. All that would be needed is enough machinery and personnel to ensure that growth would proceed normally.

It's a bit of an odd idea, but it begs the question of why it hasn't been done yet. If we were to pioneer a technology like that, we could create an explosive increase in food production, and drastically cut back on world hunger. There appear to be no negative consequences to such an idea, and the technology to make it reality is available, so... Why haven't we done it?

Corruption plays a part in the shortage of food in developing countries. To sustain their own economies, they take out loans from the World Bank, and export food to try to make enough money to pay off the loans. Two things impede them: One, most developed countries want to be exportive, not importive, in their economic policies. Two, the World Bank wants to be repaid in their own currency, the U.S. dollar, which carries more value than the currencies of developing countries.

This creates a never-ending cycles of debt in developing countries, as they must ironically take out more loans to pay off their existing loans, while their attempts to create a stronger economy are undermined by the obsolescence of whatever products they can export. Murdock states that the growth of the population in such countries therefore suffers from inverse growth: Poverty and hunger become the reasons for overpopulation, instead of overpopulation creating poverty and hunger, which is usually the case. Since the burdens of the nation's economy are passed on to the people, they must produce more food to export, while not having enough money to hire additional workers. Hence, they have more children, which are a viable source of free labor. Essentially, the system is engineered to ensure that developing countries cannot ever become advanced.

In countries that had advanced enough to have a relatively stable economy before the advent of the World Bank, such problems are not so devastating. However, the Bank's abuse of underdeveloped countries continues to be a problem. If we were to provide more support by lending our technology to those countries, or by pioneering new advances in food production, we could cause sweeping changes around the world that would improve the standard of life for millions.

But that would cause a loss of profits for us. So we won't, apparently. Sometimes our foreign policy is downright sickening.