What's the point of it all?

[subhuman_77]

Friend of mine wrote this. It's an interesting take on existential matters. Don't be lazy and read it.

In this modern age of ours', we are finally beginning to understand that there is really no point to anything. The human mind creates a scenario out of any situation, when there is really no situation. Our actions are motivated by our interests. Our morality is fixated by our actions. It's a blank chart, and we've been drawing in it for thousands of years. But what does the drawing signify? Does it mean the same than when it was blank? To understand that life is worthless, that it is just another process of the endless universe, that our pains and our pleasures, our successes and our failures, are all illusions of the mind, is the deepest human disillusionment. To understand that everything is evanescent, even this state of mind of mine, is the most perturbing truth. We are nothing. Yet our minds create the illusion that we are everything.

Over the past several weeks, I've researched peak oil and humanity's impending doom when it comes to happen. I've thought of several conflicting analysis in regards to this theory, from the most utopian outcome to the most chaotic, and in the end, I have found nothing. I stand where I started: with nothing. We are reaching a breakpoint in the infrastructure of civilization itself. The evidence is enormous. It covers climatic, economic, topographic, and political expanse. We are reaching a break point in which the entire structure in which we have survived for the past 200 years will break down, and a new age of darkness will settle in.

At first, I believed 'world controllers', wherever they are or even if they exist, must have a plan of recovery and survival if such a crisis were to occur. They must have understood the consequences of the crisis and they must be taking action before it strikes. But as the evidence mounted up, I began to understand that I was as clueless as the most powerful leader in the world. I begun to understand that the bureaucracy of this world has prevented us as a species to surpass these obstacles and look ahead. In a way, modernity has blurred our progression by forestalling our sight. Red tape has confounded our vision and we are being left defenseless against a giant crisis that will envelop our future with war after war, and tragedy after tragedy.

But then I thought that even though the 'world controllers' idea was probably not possible, humans would learn sooner or later. But they haven't. From Jesus Christ to Dostoevsky, we've been indoctrinated to believe that human will is renewable. We've been indoctrinated to believe that we learn from our mistakes and that we are rational beings. Any irrational outcome of our actions has been blamed on the errors past, when our human nature is left ignored. The truth is that we are not rational creatures. Redemption is not an option for us as a society. As individuals, we may learn from our mistakes by suppressing our instincts, but the intentions and the thoughts will still be there. A mudererer will always be a murderer. A rapist will always be a rapist. A lover witll always be a lover. We never change, we only think we change. And there in lies the second great disillusionment of humanity.

We repeat the errors of the past. When the break point comes, humans will be forced to change, but for now, we will remain the same: unchanged. We will continue on our path to doom. It's as if we're embodied in the mind of a stubborn and spoiled child. The mother tells the child to study in class because he will end up failing and dropping out, but the child thinks he knows best because he doesn't like the teacher and because he thinks he can teach himself. The child fails a subject but continues to ignore the advice. The child fails another subject, but he continues adament in his rebellion. The child fails the third subject and is expelled, and now the child cries. He wants to be given a second chance. Nature, fortunately, will probably give us a second chance, but like the child, we will continue ignoring the advice until the break point comes, and then again, it might be too late, for both the child and for humanity.

But are we really worth saving? What defines us, what makes us important, that we are worth anything in this universe of ours'? When we are driving on our cars on our way to work, we pass tens of thousands of people and think nothing of it. These tens of thousands of people are just like us. They think like us, breathe like us, and feel like us. They are our equals. Yet we dismiss them. We focus on ourselves. We focus on our conscience. To think that we are the focus point of the entire universe is in the instinct of every one of us. It's in our best interest to think of ourselves as primordial, and everyone else as secondary. And we give this illusion no thought. We accept it as it is, without second thought. Yet some of us come to the understanding that in the end of things, each and every one of us is meaningless. We create things out of nothingness and idealize illusions in order to support our existence. We believe that life is worth living for. But why, we do not know. We have the utmost horror of death and even more for suicide, but we give no substance to this unquestionable conviction. "Who in their right mind would want to die?" We ask ourselves. But should we also ask, "Who in their right mind would think of living?" What difference does it make, in the end of things, if I kill a man, rape a girl, shoot myself, or mislead millions. Will this not lead me to the same end? Death? Will this not lead me to where it leads you?

We'd like to think that there is something after life, a place where bad men can be punished, where the suffering can be rewarded, where the experiences of life can be extended, yet we base this out of the same factor that we base our worth of living: on nothing. We base it on the illusion that life is precious, that we are important, that we are the center point of everything, and therefore, that we must matter. But we don't matter. There is no afterlife as we imagine it. We will not survive death. We will be silenced by it and our state of conscience will cease to be. No... we do not matter. We are but a pixel within a pixel within a pixel of the expanse of the universe. So are we worth living? In the universe's sense, no. Is it easier to live with the illusion that we are worth living and that we indeed do matter? Yes. So from one stream of consciousness to another, I say good night. And I'm sorry if this is a virus to anyone's conscience. It's a virus to mine own, so let me discard some of reality unto others so that I'm not living it alone.

[_Ink]

depressing really

i agree that you made me feel more depressed this way with your two words of wisdom.


That is why we exist to exist, it is fundamental that all things are made to die, we are made to end, and hence all is unimportant, but a point of history and future, do not deny it, it is this fear that we always create self delusions to tell us we have intrinsic value. When in any case, we exist simply because, a temporary place of self delusion and fantasies.

[SHiKaMaRi]

What you posted up there, that long, long story of we, humans, is so damn depressing but true.

[tortuegenial]

i agree that you made me feel more depressed this way with your two words of wisdom.
That is why we exist to exist, it is fundamental that all things are made to die, we are made to end, and hence all is unimportant, but a point of history and future, do not deny it, it is this fear that we always create self delusions to tell us we have intrinsic value. When in any case, we exist simply because, a temporary place of self delusion and fantasies.

For the most part I agree at this point with some of what the post says......
however, that we were made to die and that we are not important....! I don't think that is the case.
I think it is fundamental that all things are made in order to continue the existence of life or of our species and not made simply to die. I think that is one of the underlying importance of our existence. The survival of our species is something that every living thing cherishes and strives for in life, from all plants to all animals.
One of our problems is that we do not look at ourselves as a taxonomic group but rather as individuals with our own personal and selfish goals. But of this group I think that we are an especial species, that is we are uniquely different from the rest of all living things. We can communicate at a much greater level with our unique ability to use language, we think rationally, we have cognitive thinking, we think creatively we discuss and ponder, we are also imaginative.
I think this itself, our unique separation from other species, warrants enough belief that we are important and that we are worth something in this universe.

[Lex]

Don't know why you people are depressed by the truth...we are here to do our thing, whatever that might be, then to return to the earth as worm food. If you ask me these 'world controlers' is nothing more than the planet wanting to heal itself. Go watch X the movie.

[tortuegenial]

Don't know why you people are depressed by the truth...we are here to do our thing, whatever that might be, then to return to the earth as worm food. If you ask me these 'world controlers' is nothing more than the planet wanting to heal itself. Go watch X the movie.

You'r right, I wouldn't say that its that depressing, maybe for a bit but otherwise it's enlightening, or at least should be, because it exercises the brain's thoughts. Again, I'm not ready to accept that it is the truth, that in the end we simply die and that is it, or that we have no purpose on earth and that we aren't important.

[subhuman_77]

I think that is one of the underlying importance of our existence. The survival of our species is something that every living thing cherishes and strives for in life, from all plants to all animals.
Yes i do believe that life is a cycle, that every living thing cherishes and strives for in life, but are we important, do we really matter? who are we to decide?for us to live is nothing more but to complete the cycle of live, to survive for our's sake existens.
I belive that until the human race learns to accept this reality, and the human race becomes ONE. (talking about races/religion etc.) then we could reach new goals.
I found this pictures,that might get off topic but its just to show you, how much of existance do we contribute....
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/subhuman_77/13db957.jpg
so little compare to our sun....
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/subhuman_77/13db967.jpg
just compare how little the sun is compare to Arcturus...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/subhuman_77/13db976.jpg
And Now see how Arcturus is compared to Antares..............
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/subhuman_77/13db986.jpg
Depressing isn't it.....

[Delta]

Yes i do believe that life is a cycle, that every living thing cherishes and strives for in life, but are we important, do we really matter? who are we to decide?for us to live is nothing more but to complete the cycle of live, to survive for our's sake existens.
I belive that until the human race learns to accept this reality, and the human race becomes ONE. (talking about races/religion etc.) then we could reach new goals.
I found this pictures,that might get off topic but its just to show you, how much of existance do we contribute....
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/subhuman_77/13db957.jpg
so little compare to our sun....
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/subhuman_77/13db967.jpg
then....
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/subhuman_77/13db976.jpg
AND then....>?
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/subhuman_77/13db986.jpg
Dpressing isn't it.....

Thats not nearly as depressing as the empty space and vast distances between us and other stars like that, try to imagine distances over which light, on of the fastest traveling things known to man, isn't just slow, but moves at a snail's pace, at least over intervals of time that hold any meaning for us anyway.

[Akiha]

Yes, this is depressing, but it is the TRUTH. We humans are nothing to the universe, less than dirt, dust more likely. We have no purpose to the universe, we only think of ourselves, and our problems. The selfishness of mankind will be its doom. I go to bed with these thoughts every night, yet I can bare the truth. The truth is painful, and many people deny the truth to protect themselves, but you can't hide the fact that we are nothing.

[I)ante]

Way to make me feel small Subhuman_77 =P

[*Hollow*Ichigo]

i live with it and thats how it is u can try to change it but u no it wont work...>.> so u just live with it! so u wont have to keep thinking abouit it and depressing urself evenmore.....

[Pyramus]

I'm a cristian so i belive that we have a purpose, and mabye we have to realise that purpose! Who knows, we might be the saviours of the universe someday when all the other alien races need our help!

[Delta]

Yes, this is depressing, but it is the TRUTH. We humans are nothing to the universe, less than dirt, dust more likely. We have no purpose to the universe, we only think of ourselves, and our problems. The selfishness of mankind will be its doom. I go to bed with these thoughts every night, yet I can bare the truth. The truth is painful, and many people deny the truth to protect themselves, but you can't hide the fact that we are nothing.

But I think thats where we kinda disagree, personally I think depressing isnt as good a word as intimidating. I dont think just because we're insignificant when compared to the universe that we're "nothing", it doesnt matter if you think life was created by design or by chance, I still think life is unique and needs to spread, just makes things more interesting in my opinion. Who cares if looking at the universe doesnt give some purpose in life, make one of your own and enjoy it, enjoy life, because as you point out, it's fleeting.

[IheartBleach]

Wow. Such pessimism and emo-ism here. Some of you sound so suicidal. *passes happy pills out to everyone*

I agree with Delta. heh.
It might seem like we don't matter on a larger scheme of things, but does that make our existence completely irrelevant??? Hell no! Art, science, history, literature, language, and even religion all emphasize and reassure our existence. As individuals, we seem insignificant to the entire world, and as a planet, we are just a speck of nothingness when compared to the vast expanse of time and space, the universe. But why do we even bother trying to measure ourselves to something so massive and full of mystery that's beyond our comprehension? Why not just accept that we're a part of it? I think we all matter, not exactly to the entire universe, but something even more important that directly impacts our lives. We matter to our friends, family, community, society, environment, etc.

Basically, the author of that fine essay up there is asking, "What's the point of it all if everything will eventually lead to death?" I guess we really can't help but wonder what's going to become of us after we die, or how minuscule we are in the chain of existence. But there are some things that will forever remain a mystery (at least to mankind's knowledge), and we just have to accept it. So, y'know, try not to focus on death, but turn your attention toward life instead. The meaning of life, I think, is to live a life of meaning -- to feel joy, excitement, wonder; to strive for improvement; to have a reason for being, etc etc.

[subhuman_77]

make one of your own and enjoy it, enjoy life, because as you point out, it's fleeting.
i agree. There's no reason or why to be depress by this Theory. Its not like we have an option, but learn to live knowing this.(not saying this is the total truth b/c there's no way of us knowing).
I still think life is unique and needs to spread
Yes it is unique, but only to us... our minds create the illusion that we are everything. As mean as it sounds, Do we really care for people We don't know??... So what i'm practically saying, is that a person doesn't care about a fraction of 6.3 Billion ppl. We are only concern to what's happening in our surounding, whatever it affects us economically/political or social. The selfishness of mankind will be its doom and i believe That's what will drag us down, or not even drag us down, but go on interminable circles. Have you ever heard "History Repeats itself"? Because ITS TRUE!, We've been indoctrinated to believe that we learn from our mistakes and that we are rational beings. Any irrational outcome has been blamed as past errors or mistakes, when our human nature is left ignored. The truth is that we are not rational creatures. And i know we consider ourself Ration creatures, but then why do we keep doing the same errors throughout history?

[Rising Phoenix]

Well this is rather a nice piece of work and all it sais is true in a way. But I'll remind you the other side of the scale: The universe is made of atoms.

As for death. Well death is not a bad thing, nor is it evil, it's the natural end all things from atoms, to Whales, to Stars, to Galaxies. If it weren't for death things would stay the same and we wouldn't understand how feeble and fragile life is and that is beautiful if you think about it... And one must remember that life and creation commes from death and vice versa.

Finaly I will remind you that all things are connected. Whatever effects one thing effects as all. So in effect we all are one single beeing of brilliant complexity and beauty and it's all thanks to the small things(like us). It's high time we learnt to live with the world and not against it. We are One with Evrything and that is the truth found in all things.


Death and Life are one and the same.

Evryone and One are the same as well.

Take care and next time you see a smaller creature then you, consider yourself lucky :).

Rising Phoenix

[saycheese]

this is geting quite philosophical, most people understands these things as they grow up. it dosnt matter if we eventually will die, but we are an influence and that we are alive n kickin. weee, butterflies of africa.

[Snuffle]

We're here to learn and to grow. Our trials help us do that. If you then death is then end, then I feel sorry for you. However despondent and doomed that little essay makes humanity seem, one cannot ignore the triumphs and creations of humanity. That line of thinking leads nowhere.



Do try to summarize your essays people.

[Osoheil]

Sorry, I was lazy, read some of it, and stopped.

It is nonsense. If life is so bad, kill yourself. What is the point of living if living is pointless? There probably isnt one, you should probably tell your pal to find a tall tree and a short rope. Or some therapy, whatever.

Now, for those of us that actually enjoy our lives. We will keep going, peak oil or not. Human beings are typically pretty good at perserverance and adaptability. We can survive much as history has showed us time and time again.

I dare your amigo to tell my dad, who worked 12+ hour days six days a week for years upon years to provide for his family, that it was all pointless. That would be such an insult he would probably stomp him flat. And that is just my dad, who knows how many other fathers and mothers and whoever else work so hard to do things for their family and to survive. Insulting all of their effort and pride.

Also, as humans become more intelligent as a whole, I think we begin to realize just how UNintelligent we are and how little we do know. So much about the world and universe we live in cannot be solidly explained it leaves vast amounts of room for what most people see as god, or Muhammad, or whoever.

Sure, when you die nothing may happen. Or something might. Why waste what life you do have, for whatever reason you have it, on trying to tell people that life is a waste?

I am pretty damn happy with mine, and I think when I die nothing is going to happen except my body will corrode.

Phew, I think my download is done.

[Siblesz]

Sorry, I was lazy, read some of it, and stopped.
It is nonsense. If life is so bad, kill yourself. What is the point of living if living is pointless? There probably isnt one, you should probably tell your pal to find a tall tree and a short rope. Or some therapy, whatever.
Now, for those of us that actually enjoy our lives. We will keep going, peak oil or not. Human beings are typically pretty good at perserverance and adaptability. We can survive much as history has showed us time and time again.
I dare your amigo to tell my dad, who worked 12+ hour days six days a week for years upon years to provide for his family, that it was all pointless. That would be such an insult he would probably stomp him flat. And that is just my dad, who knows how many other fathers and mothers and whoever else work so hard to do things for their family and to survive. Insulting all of their effort and pride.
Also, as humans become more intelligent as a whole, I think we begin to realize just how UNintelligent we are and how little we do know. So much about the world and universe we live in cannot be solidly explained it leaves vast amounts of room for what most people see as god, or Muhammad, or whoever.
Sure, when you die nothing may happen. Or something might. Why waste what life you do have, for whatever reason you have it, on trying to tell people that life is a waste?
I am pretty damn happy with mine, and I think when I die nothing is going to happen except my body will corrode.
Phew, I think my download is done.
Hehe... Yes... I love this kind of argument. It's good entertainment. BTW- I wrote the essay.

Albeit my argument is based upon emotion through logic, your argument is based upon emotion through emotion. Although I agree with you in some major points, as in why waste your time musing about things that are not pertinent to what makes us human, you also ignore a large facet of the argument: why not show you the light? Why, if you pardon my French, not rape your innocence and naivitee? Ignorance is bliss, and that's a certainty, but ignorance also breeds more ignorance. Will humans live in blissful ignorance forever? Surely, you do not think so. With the breach of information we possess today, it's not only a necessity to become informed, but a duty as well. When will we learn our limits as a species? As you say, we may surpass the crisis of peak oil through human ingenuity, but how will we be able to mediate the animal instincts that turn us against each other, that create conflict in passion, and that abuse of our capacity if we blind ourselves to following the illusory track?

You seem to have a very optimistic viewpoint of life. You seem to equate my argument with human morality, and I'm sorry to break it to you, but you're using an obsolete scale of judgement. Of course, I'm not saying I have the moral standard to claim that anything is more righteous than any other thing, but I don't need to. When you stumble upon nihilism, morality is but a stepstone in human societal progression. It means NOTHING. Of course, I can prove this to you, but it seems like you prefer to live in ignorance than in light. And for good reason, too. Give me the option, and I would side with ignorance over knowledge as well. Why? Because, to put it in John Lennon's words, "living is easy with eyes closed." But I, as many others, wasn't given that choice. Call me selfish for discarding this reality upon your eyes, but it doesn't take away from its validity. Senseless emotion will take you on a roundtrip to limitation. And the fact that you didn't even finish reading the argument proves that.

[dragoneyes001]

Hehe... Yes... I love this kind of argument. It's good entertainment. BTW- I wrote the essay.

Albeit my argument is based upon emotion through logic, your argument is based upon emotion through emotion. Although I agree with you in some major points, as in why waste your time musing about things that are not pertinent to what makes us human, you also ignore a large facet of the argument: why not show you the light? Why, if you pardon my French, not rape your innocence and naivitee? Ignorance is bliss, and that's a certainty, but ignorance also breeds more ignorance. Will humans live in blissful ignorance forever? Surely, you do not think so. With the breach of information we possess today, it's not only a necessity to become informed, but a duty as well. When will we learn our limits as a species? As you say, we may surpass the crisis of peak oil through human ingenuity, but how will we be able to mediate the animal instincts that turn us against each other, create conflict in passion, and abuse of our capacity if we blind ourselves to following the illusory track?

You seem to have a very optimistic viewpoint of life. You seem to equate my argument with human morality, and I'm sorry to break it to you, but you're using an obsolete scale of judgement. Of course, I'm not saying I have the moral standard to claim that anything is more righteous than any other thing, but I don't need to. When you stumble upon nihilism, morality is but a stepstone in human societal progression. It means NOTHING. Of course, I can prove this to you, but it seems like you prefer to live in ignorance than in light. And for good reason, too. Give me the option, and I would side with ignorance over knowledge as well. Why? Because, to put it in John Lennon's words, "living is easy with eyes closed." But I, as many others, wasn't given that choice. Call me selfish for discarding this reality upon your eyes, but it doesn't take away from its validity. Senseless emotion will take you on a roundtrip to limitation. And the fact that you didn't even finish reading the argument proves that.

since you wrote the original start to this discussion I'll address you in my response to it.

there are a few points you seem to be missing like potential.

potential can be as an individual: we may be going towards a future where a particular individual has an importance to the entire universe.

or we could be moving towards human potential: where as a group our evolution will eventually reach the point of having an unknown meaning of importance.

there's also the potential from religions and beliefs in one case one belief is that we progress from life to life in effect reincarnating living many lives growing our souls till we're ready to ascend to another existence.

the thing with your essay is its limited by your point of view however much you think you can see clearly your limited to only your experiences which may be lacking to be able to see whats true or not true.

[Siblesz]

since you wrote the original start to this discussion I'll address you in my response to it.
there are a few points you seem to be missing like potential.
potential can be as an individual: we may be going towards a future where a particular individual has an importance to the entire universe.
Very true. And the necessity has never been greater.

or we could be moving towards human potential: where as a group our evolution will eventually reach the point of having an unknown meaning of importance.
I'd discount evolution as a whole. Society moves millions of years faster than evolution. Evolution, or in other words, instincts, are what keeps us down as a species (yet interestingly enough, also what defines us as one).

there's also the potential from religions and beliefs in one case one belief is that we progress from life to life in effect reincarnating living many lives growing our souls till we're ready to ascend to another existence.
There's literally no evidence of energy (and we are just that: particles of energy), going from one reality of existence to another. We're putting human concepts into scientific realities. There's no place for them in science. Science is pretty crude and straightforward. Is there a lot more we have not found yet? Of course... but as you said, the essay never addresses that issue... it avoids the incongruency. The essay solely addresses the meaninglessness of our existence (but note that meaninglessness has a meaning in of its own).

Another part I largely ignored was the universality of the system. The universe might work as one entity. Take a single particle of the entity away, and the system collapses or regresses. So each of us, as particles of energy that we are, might have value of one sort or another, but the value is so displaced from human meaning as to be incoherent to our logic.

the thing with your essay is its limited by your point of view however much you think you can see clearly your limited to only your experiences which may be lacking to be able to see whats true or not true.
With the information that we're given today, we can come to the logical conclusion that A.) morality is an invention of man, B.) God, in the human sense, is an invention of man, C.) anything of value in society gained its worth through our drive for survival. Through these three logical paradigns, the whole of society is devoid of universal meaning. But there are other possibilities. For example, God might simply be an evolved being from another of our numerous galaxies who is experimenting on us (kind of like a Twilight Zone episode). There are many possibilities. But from what we can see, analyze, and prove, A through C have been pretty constant to human history and our evolutionary and societal pattern.

Anyhow, to give you a sense of what some of my philosophies are, here's an e-mail I wrote to a fellow scholar of mine:
What is God, to me? To answer this question, I must first ask this: why must God be proclaimed a conscious being? If God is a conscious being, then the aforementioned logic applies. But if unconscious, then a whole new ball game results. God, to me, is not an individual, but the compilation of all of the energy in the universe, including our own selves. We are God. Let me explain. Imagine that the universe is a magnet with two countering forces, the negative and the positive side. These two forces struggle against each other in an immortal and therefore perpetual cycle of conflict and balance. Out of this conflict, the universe takes its force, out of this force, energy ensues, and out of this energy, existence is formulated.

But let’s not say the word ‘formulated’… it is the improper term for such a philosophy, for in order for this philosophy to work, one must abide by two principles: The first is the principle of the conservation of matter. Matter cannot be created nor destroyed. Therefore, if matter stays the same eternal and can only be distributed and morphed according to the present laws of chemistry, then there is no creation and no destruction, only separation and distribution. Second, if this principle is maintained, then the principle of time must also be dismissed. Time is, in essence, a man-made invention. Although nature does coordinate itself according to a somewhat foreseeable pattern of progress, this pattern does not signify that there is a beginning and an end to all matter in the universe. Rather, it means that things are evenly distributed and balanced all over the universe in an orderly manner. Time was created by the human mind in order to keep track of this process of balance, and by this pretense and by the observation of the process that we configured with our human logic, and from what we termed ‘the birth and death’ of trees and animals, to the cycle between the coming of the moon to the coming of the sun, we determined that the universe had to have a beginning and an end. We logically predicted that if humans and nature alike showed this same pattern of 'life and death' in their limited existence, then the universe must also be the same. And therefore, through this logic, we invented God, the creator and destroyer of the universe, for in his absence, the logic would fail to be.

What we failed to take note of was the fact that nature does not have a beginning and an end. Nature is recycled. The beginning is the end and the end the beginning. Our birth is our death, and our death is our birth. When we die, we decay into organic material. This organic material is not dead, for it feeds into the ground and fertilizes it, therefore providing life to the ground beneath us. The ground beneath us feeds the plants. The plants feed the animals. The animals feed the humans. And these same humans die and feed the ground. Spring befalls summer, which befalls fall, which befalls winter. Winter befalls spring, which befalls summer, which befalls fall. And so on... all in a perpetual cycle of energy. And although the process does find an end, it is not an end exerted by itself, but by the redistribution of matter around itself.

This brings up two further questions. The first, is the question of where life comes from if there is no creation, and the second, is the predilection that if we are all but matter within the recycling and redistribution of the universe, then the self and the individual are also man-made pretenses. I will answer the first question first. The question of where life comes from is the one that I hold the most doubt in, for there is little logic explanation. According to this philosophy, life comes from the conflict of forces in the universe and the energy that it creates. Within this solar system’s context, life comes from the sun’s energy. Matter is lifeless or inorganic in every planet but that of Earth (and maybe on the moon Enceladus in Saturn), so how then does life occur? It can’t occur from nothing, but can it be a chemical reaction? If microscopic life forms when a chemical reaction between salt water and other elements and the energy of the Sun occurs, then the question of where life comes from is solved. So far, neither I nor any other person that I know of has been able to find factual evidence to support this claim, but it is logical if true. If there is energy and water, then can life not morph out of these two combinations? But there is no proof to this, so it has to be set aside. The second theory pertinent to this philosophy but of which must abide with the first is the possibility that life was imported to Earth from another planet (Mars may have had life hundreds of millions of years ago or from a meteor containing microscopic organisms that collided with the Earth). But if this is true, then where did that life come from? This is the only issue with this philosophy, for if life cannot be created from the random combination of energy and matter, then it has to come from a divine being. But if it can come from this combination, then all else follows. Evolution is but the outcome of life. It is incredible that out of one microscopic organic particle, we were created... but according to all scientific evidence gathered, this is truly so.

Now, to explain the second question in which the idea of the individual, or the self, is dismissed. If the self is but a fantasy of the mind, it would mean that all individuals are part of the same process, and that in the end of our organic lifetime, we will all rejoin this process and recycle from matter to other matter. This philosophy coordinates itself with the Indian philosophy of the Moksha, or the universal spirit and the recycling of the soul from death unto life and from life unto death. Many questions arise. The most troubling question comes with the denial of the self. If we are but particles of matter awaiting our redistribution, then all ideals of conscious and individuality must be set aside. But this is not so, for although we change from day to day, and we were not the same person we were yesterday, we are the same selves in the here and now. The self exists, but only in the present reality. As redistribution of matter continues, the self changes along with the process, but the idea of the self still remains within the present reality, and as such, it makes part of the process and is an important element for the process itself to work.

I’ll provide two examples in order to explain the logic, one psychological, and the other through this e-mail’s content. The first example comes from a psychology case study which I read a couple of months ago. A woman in her mid 30s experienced massive brain damage that distorted her sensory brain capabilities. After the brain damage, whenever the lady saw a couple kissing, she felt the couple’s kiss in her lips. She had lost her ability to sense her own touch, but gained the ability to sense the touch of others. Through this case study, I begun to doubt reality and the self. Is reality real, or are we living in a mind-created fantasy? The self is a subjective thing. We are not really ourselves, but what our mind tells us that we are. As Descartes says, we think, therefore we are. Now, there are two ways to analyze the question on whether reality is real or not.

The first: No, it is not real within the objective universe, for we are not really ourselves but matter within this charted and balanced conflicting universe. The second:

Yes, it is really real because we think it’s real. A healthy man who’s been taught to think that he’s a cripple since childhood will really believe that he is a cripple and act as such, even though he really is not a cripple and can walk perfectly fine. As such, we all believe that our reality is real, and therefore, we act it out as such, even if it isn’t real. But the mere fact that we think it is real, makes it real to our own selves.

The second example comes from this e-mail. After I send you this email and you read it completely, your mind will assess this information and change some of its pattern of logic. After this change comes about, a few of your neurons will redistribute themselves in order to formulate this new pattern. Therefore, the day after you read this, you will be a different person because of it. Slightly so, but you will still be different. This will make you a different self than the self that you were yesterday. And being a different self means that the idea of the self can be dismissed altogether, for if you are not the same self you were yesterday, then there is no constant self at all, only a self that is temporary and that will join with the ALL as change continues its immortal course.

If one understands all of these factors, then the puzzle quickly formulates by itself. One must see to it that one understands the pace at which the universe changes. Second by second, the reality that surrounds one changes itself. Second by second, the matter within and around one distributes itself. Second by second, the two conflicting poles of the immortal, constant, yet ever-changing universe conflict with each other. I am your matter, you are my matter, we are the matter of nature, nature is the matter of the universe. We are all combined, we are all separate. We are all individual entities within our individual realities, yet we are one combined entity within one combined reality. Immortality… that is God. We are God. God is us.

I hope that you understand this philosophy. It reminds me of the one Beatles song ‘I am the Walrus’… You know… “I am he, as you are he, as you are me, and we are all together”. Haha… And to think that the Indians were thinking about this 4,000 years into the past! Oh… humans haven’t changed a bit… our access of information, our technology, and standards of living have expanded, yet our minds have evolved very little in the past 5,000 years. Always look back to history, for all the answers are already there. All one has to do is look, and there lies the answer to one’s question.

That should give you a pretty good idea of why I think like I do.

[SoggyFrog]

When we say that human life is pointless in the whole scheme of things, that is only one perspective. It is an important perspective, but it should not diminish all others. Our individual perspective, of how we live and experience life, is very different from that. Osoheil, your father should not be insulted by this fact.

As you detail, he earned a living for himself and his family, and it is certain he has enjoyed the fruit of his labour. He has every right to be proud of what he has achieved, he knows that one day he will die and you will die and eventually we will all be forgotten. But today, he is where he is in this time, and it is a very true reality. It is a blip in time and a lonely tiny place in the universe, but it is there.

There is no falsity in Siblesz' words but it does not dismiss the worth of ethic and labour to improve our own view of things.

[SolBeowulf19]

Why choose to live when we are nothing. Or more, why choose life over death when life means simply living in an illusion, a dream, as it were. I cannot state others reasons for doing this, but I can state my own.

Because I can.

Because I have the ability to say that I wish to live in this illusion rather than die and be free from it. Because being free from the illusion by my own hand would mean, for me, running. And that is something I do not wish to do. I choose to live in illusion because I have the ability. I also have the ability to laugh and "God" as it were. More so for things he can do that I find funny.


In a way, it is asking the question "Why?"
What one should ask is "Why not?"

[Kyouka Suigetsu]

Wow, I was quite surprised by your essays. They're very well written and thought provoking as well. In my mind, I acknowledge there isn't anything in existence that has intrinsic value. Some things have purpose though. All living things exist to propogate their species. Life spreads for reasons we're unaware of in spite of lacking any real meaning. This in itself begs the question as why life even exists then. Humans, as a species we constantly mull over the value of our lives, while we shouldn't even preoccupy ourselves with such matters. Like you said, "It doesn't matter." We live and that's enough in itself. It's not like the majority of us don't find something to enjoy within the scope of our existences. Those things give meaning to are lives because they appeal to something within. We seek out those experiences because they drive us to live. It might give us a hollow sense of having a purpose, but I'd take that over having a real defined purpose in the scheme of things and being unhappy. You can't always have your cake and eat it too. It may just be stimulation of the animal within, but it makes us happy.

Also, why concern yourself with a universal point of view when the only perspective you can truly view the world from is your own? You end up putting yourself in a position you were never meant to be in. We aren't the universe; we're a part of it. As most modern psychologists have discovered, the most important component of maintaining sanity is the feeling of being important or belonging to something. Humanity belongs to the universe and in some way that gives us purpose in itself. It might not be value, but people interchange the two pretty easily anyway.

[dundo1989]

wow...that made me speechless..
its so sad......i wonder how depressd he was to think of dat and write it all...
but hey...we all know we r going to die one day...so we should live our lives to da fullest and enjoy evry moment...its bttr to die happy dan dying regretfull....am i right or am i right :D

[phantom_ko]

If youre going to get said at it, id think u shud try and avoid the truth and be like a "normal" "blind" human being, because in a way you would have less of these problems and that you would be happier to live you life and continue in this world.

I think the essays are very well written and i think u have made some very good points which i have yet to arrive at for myself.

[Demon of The Fall]

I'd like to think that my actions matter. Not to the universe or even to our planet, but if another human acknowledges my accomplishments, and passes that on to his/her offspring or friends, my life has a purpose, and that purpose is fulfilled. This purpose may be an illusion created by my mind, but who gives a ****? It makes me happy, and it might have made another person happy, and that's all I need.

[*Hollow*Ichigo]

im like half christian so i do kinda belive theres a purpose but theres just all this stuff ur brain makes to block ur free will

[chiking1]

WOW, that's a really good essay you pasted. But I will dissagree with the part where your friend mentioned that the reason we were created was to die. If that was the case, then why don't we all kill ourselves right now? I think that the reason we were made is to find something to be remembered by, something that people would care about even after you die.

[subhuman_77]

the reason we were created was to die. If that was the case, then why don't we all kill ourselves right now?
why not??
the point my friend is giving you is that even if we die tomm, it won't matter,(surely it's matter to your family memebers) but not to the rest. to the rest you will only appear as any other article on the newspaper of kid who died.

reason we were made is to find something to be remembered by, something that people would care about even after you die.
again yes, but only to the people you matter to.
Of course there's exeptions where one person could change the world, like a stalin or a hitler. But what are the changes of us being a person who could affect the world for out death? one in a million.... maybe more heheh

[shadow_of_89]

Our part in the universe is simply to keep a cicle....we are nothing in the universe.....we are born just to complete a cycle of evolution.......If one man can influence not just Earth,solar system but our galaxy with his actions(hopefully constructive) then we can say that we are a bit important...... for the moment let's stay in our little dark cave and eat drink sleep reproduce and die......

[sto67]

life itself may not have a meaning but that doesnt mean you should just keel over and die. life is what you make of it, and whatever you want to do with your life is your business.

does the meaning of life really matter at all? i think not.

[ravenx]

Life has a meaning.
From the most primitive unicelular organism to us humans there is one force that drives us and that is reproduction. This is the trate that all scientist use to difine life.
We humans are the only species on earth that searches for another reason for life to exist. We try to creat reasons by imaginig that there is a great plan for us that we are not just simple tools used by DNA to evolve , to survive and to spread.
Our purpose is not to die but to reproduce , to try to excape our mortal condition by the things we leave behind , through our genes .

[Esedess]

My thoughts, pointless as they are:

You weren't born with a point or purpose. Hell, you're a useless piece of walking, talking, assimilating, learning meat. Just like me.

However...

Why should this restrict you in any way? Purpose, the point of it all...that's not a predetermined thing that's the same for us all. We're human beings, and in my opinion that means we've the power to do the greatest of goods or the direst of evils. What you do, how you do it, that's what defines a person and defines a soul.

If we look from a biological point of view, s'all reproduction. Sex is teh meaning of teh life. All any species has as a prime directive is to survive onwards and pass their genes on too.

My stance is that life is there for living. The point in it and the purpose you individually have is up to you, you're the one it matters to, it's your free will to go find it. Even if the purpose is minute, if it means something, then you should go for it and fullfill it, as others will fullfill theirs. I'd hope everyone follows a moral path as I try to, but then again, that's free will ain't it?

So purpose is never a certain thing, but it isn't some species-wide formula or undeniable truth. Your lifes purpose can be as simple as living. Living so that others may know happiness or undeniable pain for even a fraction of their meek existance. That, my friends, is all down to you.

/ramble

[grieversangel]

I think that all people on earth have a purpose. People in your life come and go and it's not just because they want you to hurt or to suffer it's because you were ment to learn something from them and once you learn it then there might not be a reason for that person to be there anymore.

[DestinyBlade]

Quote: "the gods envy US. They envy us 'cause we're mortal..." Achilles (however you spell it)

The reason we make the same mistakes is because we learn better from ourselves than others. The human mind is complex. Many of us think what is good is good (be a good kid, etc.). However, there are those who think differently. For example, the aztecs. They sacrificed humans without a thought, killing them for some imaginary divine being(s). It is a good thing we are mortal. If we weren't, the earth would overpopulate. We havent even discovered hyperspace/wormholes/stargate/etc.

To be continued...(too tired to write the rest; teach you some other time)

[yellow flash]

The person who wrote that article tried to classify the entire human race based on his experiences and his beliefs. He obviously went through a very traumatizing experience in life, Or maybe what seemed like never ending cycle of inexperiences. So he needs to think up an elaborate excuse in order to justify to himself his own feelings of worthlessness and his desire for death.

Even if we are nothing more than insects a part of something as immense as the universe, The universe is not one giant solid entity. It is the millions of little things which people would think insignificant, That all come together to form that which we call the universe. Some people believe that as an individual they do not matter, Like if they ceased to exist it would not make a difference. But like a puzzle, Without all the peices we can not become whole.

Who is to say your bonds and dreams and aspirations and accomplishments are fake? And even if they were, Would it really matter? Do you feel joy and warmth and comfort when you experience these things? Does your heart not beat a little easier? We are born on this earth and then we die. But what we do with that time is entirely up to us. Personally I want to live my life so I have no regrets. So I can look back and say "Even if it was meaningless, I experienced love and happiness and sadness. And even if I don't leave any mark on society, Those experiences made it worth it."

[Fect]

Too many 1-liners. I don't like them. Thread will either be closed, or you will recieve a warning. Thank you.

[Habanero]

On some extent, I agree with the OP. I've actually thought that way since I was around ten years old... But the vanity of life doesn't really bother me. To be honest, not at all. Why should it? Life is too short to not have fun.
I don't see any purpose for life either, any other than life itself. It actually comforts me that I can choose just the way of life I want to, and live it the way I want to, because I got no purpose.
I've thought it this way: There's no other purposes for your life than those that you make for yourself. At the moment, I want to have fun and enjoy my youth. While also I want to study and hopefully benefit my environment somehow.
My dreams and desires are all the purpose for my life I need. That's it :winking56