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Hattori
09-17-2006, 06:08 PM
There have been some complaints lately from various players that a specific type of build and combat art are unbalanced. This is the last discussion we shall have on the topic. I will not brook further whining. If you possess a valid and well-articulated/researched rebuttal to my arguments, please PM me and I will see if anything further needs to be changed.

1. It's a game, people, you're supposed to have fun, and whining isn't fun ^_^. Not for you and especially not for me, because guess who has to balance all the rulesets? (Take a wild one here.)

2. There is no single stat nor single build which can dominate all others. There are some builds that are better than others - since when is this not true? Simply because a build is gimped for STR or DEX, it's broken? Combat-optimized builds will perform better in the field than those which aren't. It's just a simple fact of RPGs.

Ex:

People have been complaining that kaze_mizu's build and associated combat art are too strong. I will now construct two builds - one strength-focused and one constitution-focused - that are capable of utterly dominating him. They will be the same level as him, and possess the same number of techniques and Shikai release.

1.: Strength-gimped combat build.

Combat Art: Zanjutsu

STR 6 (9)
DEX 0
CON 3
REI 2

to-hit 15d10 [7-10]
EVA 0
Saves 4d6 + 3
HP 108
Damage 9+ 5 + 4 = 18, Crit 4

WF: Zan
WS: Zan
Batter
IW
GIW
Extend: Hohou
Extend: Zanjutsu
(Inactive: Azusa-Yumi (level 1))
Toughness 4x

Active Techs:

#202 Azusa-Yumi (lvl2)
Convert speed energy into strength
Requires: Azusa-Yumi
Difficulty: Medium (str)
Damage: None
Special: Strength +3 and dexterity -1 for the next 2 turns
Reiatsu cost: 6

#158 Beserk
Enter a furious rage, but loose control of your own actions.
Requires: None
Difficulty: Medium (str)
Damage: None
Special: Beserk on self for two turns, you may roll three more hit dice in your regular physical attack rolls for the next two turns
Reiatsu Cost: 5

Shikai Ability: Overpower

First Turn: Release, Shikai, Buff, Kaze buffs too unless he's suicidal

Second Turn: Kaze uses Iajutsu, doing 40 damage. At the maximum, he has 3 EVA. I use normal attacks twice, hitting an average of 6 times per attack (SEV 3 Critical Hit). This means, on average, I get a Sev 3 Critical Hit on Kaze. I use CS: Vitals every time, reducing his DEX by 8 in the second turn. If I get lucky, I castrate him, pwning him. Alternatively, I could take my full damage on my crits and inflict 54 damage per strike, killing him in this round alone.

Third Turn: Kaze uses Iajutsu, possibly doing 40 damage. At the maximum, he has 1 EVA. I attack twice, using my first to drop his DEX to -1 and my second to kill him.

Pwned.

(Note: You really don't need to take Toughness for this build to work.)

The second build is even more effective against Dexers. Watch this.

STR 3 (8)
DEX 0
CON 6 (8)
REI 2

To-hit 8 + 3 + 3 = 14d10
EVA - 0
HP 143
Saves 4d6 + 8
Damage 15

WF
WS
IW
GIW
Extend: Hohou
Extend: Zanjutsu
Inactive: (Azuma-Yumi (Level 1))
Toughness 5x

Combat Art: Total Defense

Techniques:

Azuma-Yumi
Berserk

Shikai Ability: Frenzy

First Turn: Kaze buffs, I buff

Second Turn: Kaze uses Iajutusu on me, doing 4 (Dauntless, I'm immune to Iajutsu) whole damage! Zomg! At this rate it'll take him a mere 30 rounds to kill me! I attack twice, hitting an average of 4 times (1 when EVA is factored). It will take me 2-3 rounds to kill him.

Third Turn: Same thing

...

In the event that Kaze gets insanely lucky and I haven't hit him for six whole rounds, by the sixth round his Shikai wears off and I'm still going strong. He loses an action and 2 DEX, making it even easier for me to beat him. The chances of me losing are one in thousands.

Pwnt.

Kaze owned you because he was higher level and had a better build. If you had asked, I would have provided build advice for you guys as well.

This does not mean that your builds will experience same or even similar results against this type of player, but truly, STR-based Zanjutsu, when well-built, is unstoppable. Once you hit them with Castration, it's all over. Con-based wall is even more unstoppable against Dexers. Dexers fare well against low-DC techniques, low-attack die opponents, and low-hp no DR opponents. They BLOW against high-CON total defense.

3. GM Activity:

When I took the post of Hollow/Renegade GM it was with the understanding that I would be facing five other GMs not on my side. Thus, I made it my duty to actively monitor my section of the forums, knowing that both I and my side were outnumbered severely. However, due to a recent slew of GM inactivity (at no fault of their own; they're just on vacation or have lots of school - not that I don't have the latter). When distributing RPP, I always read the RP carefully and weigh it holistically (against other players) and absolutely (against my personal standard).

Now, if you were in my position, would you seriously devote the majority of your time to Shinigami affairs and neglect your own side? I expected to be outnumbered and outgunned, so I heavily encouraged training and good RPing to give my Renegades a chance. Now it appears that people are resentful because I coached my own side without giving as much attention to the other. Tell me: what kind of coach teaches the other side? I think I've been more than clear when I've said that anyone who needs build help need only ask, and I really shouldn't be doing that. We GMs do not recieve a greater proportion of time to accomplish our duties. We - contrary to what some people may believe - have lives of our own and are not professional RPers.

I have decided to change Hohou so that it possess a DEX requirement. I am at the limits of my patience with all this whining. Here's a thought: How about I just stop GMing at all?

IceFlame
09-17-2006, 07:32 PM
Very true man, very true.... (+reps)

And Btw...

((Oh, I think it works on Hollows. And it's more of a joke ability than a real one...I mean, you can use it, but - seriously?))

My,my.... seems that my rpg instict was once again correct about its importance :toocool: .

Jaran
09-17-2006, 07:36 PM
Lol, that attack is pretty pwn though. xD Oh, one question about the ACA, Hat...with the Zan techs, can you only use them each once per fight?

Hattori
09-17-2006, 07:38 PM
Ostensibly yes, but no one did, so I just kinda let it slide...after all, Zanjutsu is the most common combat art and it wouldn't make sense to be able to chop off only one limb a battle (Monty Python and the Holy Grail, anyone?). You can only Castrate them once though. (hopefully)

Jaran
09-17-2006, 07:48 PM
LMAO! Yeah...I didn't think anyone had more than one ding-dong. xD

Okay, just making sure, because I saw your post about using Called Shot: Joints every round, and I was wondering what was going on there.

Cloud
09-17-2006, 08:06 PM
A few things real quick.

1) Hattori don't quick GM'ing. I'd kill all the people that upset you because I need you to teach me how to RP better by telling me that I'm a noob at RP'ing still ^.^

2) Are we to assume that Castrate wears off at the end of a battle(I know it lasts only 4 rounds in that fight)? Or is it useable only once on each opponent? Just a question and I figured it was pretty valid because I didn't know how skilled the medics were.

3) You didn't even use the example that my character is. At 20th level(If I ever get there anyways...) I will be doing 770 damage(with max crit which will happen a lot with all of the attack die I will have and added percent to hit per die. I'll hit on 6-10.) with normal attacks effectively killing all opponents in one blow except for those God-Forsaken GodSpeeders. Of course this is based just on the rules that are here right now.

Hattori
09-17-2006, 08:09 PM
Castrate can be healed by 4th Division medics or Ming's Infirmary.

Unless you become a master at RPing, it'll take you years to hit 20th level.

Kazmiz
09-17-2006, 08:24 PM
Then we shall all become masters of RP! Or die trying. Seriously. xD

Cloud
09-17-2006, 08:26 PM
Meh, years are nothing to me. I have nothing but time.... Ok, not really. Want to hook me up with some tips on RP'ing anybody? Feel free to PM with any tips that you may have no matter how many people you think have PM'ed me already. And I have another question but I'll look it up first and if I don't find it I'll post it in the FAQ's.

((EDIT: Oh kaze, I'm pretty sure he just meant me. You seem to be really good at Rping so it shouldn't take you nearly as long as me to get to level 20.))

Hattori
09-17-2006, 08:30 PM
Well, zen, you must factor HP into the equation as well. Can your build survive being hit by Tian Wu Jian's Senkei (+50 Celestial damage) at Critical Severity 5? You're looking at around 496 damage on a first strike - if you can survive that, you might have a chance. If you can't, all the STR in the world is useless. Also, don't forget that dexers will have around EVA 10 at 20th level, and the really gimped ones might hit 13-15. If you go up against a 90% concealed Soul Ripper ninja with a +EVA Bankai, you're screwed - you'll have about 2 STR after one round.

Cloud
09-17-2006, 08:48 PM
Well if an opponent had 13 evasion then I'd have to hit will all of my dice but I could still take them out in one blow seeing as the most hitpoints you could have is tops like 400(with a pure constitution build) so i would just have to hit with 6 of my die in addition to the die that are blocked so I could hypothetically kill a 12 Evasion Person in one blow if I were extremely lucky but thats highly unlikely. I know that my character isn't perfect and will get pwned by pure dexers but if I get the first blow against any other type of build then I'll rape I think. Not counting other factors tho such as the Soul Ripper Ninja you mentioned. But either way I know that I'm not the best at this game but you didn't really have to rip down my build so badly...

Hattori
09-17-2006, 08:54 PM
It's a good build, Zen, but I was just pointing out that there is no such thing as a perfect build. The closest I've gotten is Tian Wu Jian, and I've already designed a character capable of defeating him.

Btw, the most HP you can have is over 1500. Check the Bankai rules.

Cloud
09-17-2006, 08:59 PM
Oh, Duh. Forgot about Bankai. I meant without it. I haven't memorized the Bankai rules just yet. Working on it tho so try not to change 'em too much after I get them memorized.

As for my build not being perfect. Yeah I know. A pure dex user with GodSpeed will be completely unaffected by my normal attacks so I'd be pretty much screwed against them.

Jaran
09-17-2006, 11:03 PM
Not if you get Onslaught. It's possible to kill Godspeed users with an Onslaught user. :)

Cheezex1337
09-17-2006, 11:31 PM
((OOC: You all think too much about builds and stuff =P.))

Cloud
09-18-2006, 12:33 AM
Not if you get Onslaught. It's possible to kill Godspeed users with an Onslaught user. :)

OMG thank you. You are the MAN! I completely forgot about that. I planned on getting Onslaught so I guess I will be able to take on Godspeed users. But I do agree that my build isnt perfect. In a team tho I would definitely rape as long as the opponent didn't go for me first.

Jaran
09-18-2006, 12:52 AM
Very true. :P I'm kind of planning on doing around the same thing...although I'm not sure.

maximoose666
09-18-2006, 01:01 AM
Hattori, I'm with you 100% on this; you are in charge of the RPG and you must do as you see fit with the rules. On a side note, although I'm busy, if I need to fill in for a Shinigami GM then I will do so for a while. We can also consider promoting another player to GM, I know one or two have been asking me about it. But I'll discuss this in the GMs' area :)

Hattori
09-18-2006, 01:15 AM
Arrgh, they forgot to change the techs to their revised forms!

These are the actual Onslaught, Wall, and Godspeed techs. You will note that they are all majorly nerfed. Sorry for releasing the prototypes.

Godspeed:

EXP BURN 1400
+1 Action per round
Tier IV Shunpo at will
Always strike first

The Wall:

EXP BURN 2000
Damage Reduction 20/- All Physical
Damage Reduction 30/- All Elemental
50% Immunity to one physical attack type of choice (Pierce/Bludge/Slash)

Onslaught (Active Tech):

EXP BURN 2500

1/day for number of rounds equal to level become Unstoppable (+20 damage, multiplied on crits)

1/day for number of rounds equal to level become Unblockable (Ignore all Damage Reduction, even Supernal)

1/day for number of rounds equal to level become Unconquerable (Immune to all status effects, can be used after a status effect has been taken place, gain Damage Reduction 40/- against one damage type)

I'm sure everyone will agree that these techniques are a lot less extreme than previously. This is because of the introduction of Combat Arts, which reduced the need for them.

Analog
09-18-2006, 03:51 AM
Don't quit Hattori! If people are whining thats there problem and clearly don't realize why they are playing the game. It's not your fault that other GM's aren't on. So if people whine just tell them to stfu!

sto67
09-18-2006, 05:20 AM
lol nobody is pointing fingers at hattori, he has our respect for being an active and fair GM.

sith29
09-20-2006, 09:46 AM
yeah i never said that i have something against hattori. its only that we don't have such active GM. And that sucks... Maybe you realy should make another GM. I propose Jaran. I think he is most active shiniagami player and he RP good. But decision is up to you GM's.

Ultimatum479
09-20-2006, 10:53 AM
Well, if it's just RPP distribution you need, I'm here now.

I'll try not to do too many major RPP decisions at the beginning. I'll work my way up.

sith29
09-20-2006, 11:08 AM
Um.. You are new GM Ultimatum??

Cloud
09-20-2006, 12:41 PM
he is a pseudo-GM. he can GM and give out RPP but he doesnt have any admin-like powers in the roleplaying forums. at least thats how i understand it to be. he was appointed by Hattori and took over for part of the Co-Op quest. Altho I had believed that he would be working on Renegades side. I'd assumed that is was partly to control the meks over here since it was only Hattori but maybe he does both sides.

sith29
09-20-2006, 01:11 PM
(then we shinigmi still don't have such active GM. Only raven is here more often)

Cloud
09-20-2006, 01:23 PM
I think they are getting a new GM over there soon. Or at least I know that Hisagi has asked about being a GM. Dunno how that's going tho. I'll ask him next time I talk to him.

sith29
09-20-2006, 01:53 PM
Hisagi?? who's that. I still think Jaran would be good. Or Sto. They are very active. They would be good Gm's

Cloud
09-20-2006, 01:59 PM
Hisagi-Sama formely known as Ajames I believe. He's active on the IRC channel a lot. I don't know sto at all so I can't say anything about him. Jaran might make a good GM. Dunno for sure tho.

sto67
09-20-2006, 02:30 PM
id rather not GM even if i was offered the position. i like being active but i dont have a good grasp of the rules yet anyways so you are better off finding someone more suitable lol

Jaran
09-20-2006, 04:43 PM
I would rather have Hisagi (ajames) GM, personally. I mean, I know the rules and I'm very active, but if I was GMing, I wouldn't be able to offer all of my time to it, due to the fact that I'm already an RPer. Anywho, Hisagi doesn't have a character and knows the rules very well, and has observed or read every single post in the RPG threads, multiple times. I think he would be the best choice for a Shinigami GM.

That's just me though. xD

Night Prowler
09-20-2006, 06:10 PM
sigh/ I'm gonna hate myself for doing this but...

If you ever need someone to RP a minor character or something, I could do it saying that I have an extensive history in RPing.

Hattori
09-20-2006, 07:06 PM
I do not have any plans for incoporating new full GMs, and any that would chance to apply would, at the very least, have to be better at RPing than any other non-GM player present.

Ultimatum479
09-21-2006, 02:00 AM
...if I was GMing, I wouldn't be able to offer all of my time to it, due to the fact that I'm already an RPer....Hisagi doesn't have a character...
O RLY?!?1111!!!!oneone!!!

Interesting. That's what I thought too, as he has no character creation thread. I'm not entirely sure what the deal with this is, then. http://forums.bleachportal.net/showthread.php?t=19701

Shinomori
09-21-2006, 02:06 AM
He "has" a character. It, however, has never been used. You'd have to have him explain it.

Jaran
09-21-2006, 02:18 AM
That character is being used for his GM test. Lol. :P

Otherwise, he wouldn't have a character at all. I think Maxi is just testing his RP abilities. Hopefully he'll pass. -_-