Obsession: Radical Islamic War against the west [Archive]

Mashu-truth seeker

09-20-2006, 08:04 AM

A documentary that's on Google about the extremists in Islam...

Please watch the entire video before posting... Be warned, it does have scenes of graphic violence, though not to gut wrenching extremes.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8427641488814272733&q=obsession+radical+islam (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8427641488814272733&q=obsession+radical+islam)

My opinion is, this is getting out of hand, the entire Islamic extremest movement is becoming an entity of global domination, this is no longer a controversial subject, it's beyond that. What this has become is, as the video stated, a decleration of War upon Judaism and western civilization in it's entirity. We can no longer hide from this fact or we will reap dire consequences, not just America, but the entire freethinking world.

I am chilled and sickened to my very core as a person of free western ideology that my country along with many others has become so censored as to basicly decieve me and millions of others into thinking this is an isolated, small threat from a peppered "militia" of sorts. They are a major opposition to the entire non-Islamic and moderate Islamic world and something needs to be done soon about this before massive atrocities are committed, atrocities that could make 911 and the bombings in London a drop in the bucket comparatively. To think that soo many of their youth have such an all-encompassing, all-consuming pure hatred for everyone that is not of their radical faith through the teachings and fear-centric propoganda of the radicals is just insane, to the very definition of the word.

I'm not posting this as a "well its Americas fault" debate thread, this concerns everyone that is of a non-Islamic or moderate Islamic backround. We can no longer sit idly by and allow this to become any larger than it has become. The video was dead on in it's comparison of these extremists with Nazi Germany. We can't use the excuse of 'un-PC' any longer and expect the problem to go away.

The World needs to stand up against this threat of global proportions and take a stand. History repeats itself and this documentary has truely cemented that into my being, and as the video quoted:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

Lex

09-20-2006, 08:12 AM

Im not one for this discussions as I try not to get involved with any kind of war, makes me itch.
I agree that we shouldn't sit by idly and do nothing but no one wants to act.
My father told me of a group of soldiers who he worked with when he did his serve...I can't recall the name now but they were used to combate terrorists...let's see if I remember this correctly...once they drew their knives they were not allowed to be sheathed without blood being spilt, I think that's how it goes...clean killers, never found the bodies.
We should combate terrerism with terrorism, they bomb us, we bomb them...they'll stop soon enough...or what ever, my country is sitting on their backsides and doing nothing anyway.

_Ink

09-20-2006, 10:58 AM

So I heard, whats new? They can't even swallow down a fact that the Pope mentioned " A LITTLE BIT " about their religion, the moment you even dare to think about it and say it a little louder, they would cry Jihad.

I am no kidding here, the fact is that due to their unforgivingness, I am slowly realizing there is really no way to help them, and it certainly sure there is no way to even come close to convincing them, they will stop soon enough alright, once they killed every american and british person.

Frankly, I don't want to sound like a religion hater, but if you all think of going out of hand, it is not just that anymore, look at the frequency of these happenings now? a war here, a bomb there, I reckon it won't even stop that easily.

Wolfman Walt

09-20-2006, 09:01 PM

One of the more interesting theories that I've read about Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorism movements is that they're actually caused by internal strife in the Muslim community. It's really Muslim vs. Muslim rather then Muslims vs. the west. The reasoning (or atleast that I can remember) is that Muslims who head towards funtamentalism are that way because they're afraid they're losing their culture and their religion due to globalism and they damn anything that has influence over younger muslims (IE the west) or any sort of advancement in terms of their religion. As such, some islamic terrorist groups work on the idea that if everyone becomes a muslim, then there can be no influence to advance the religion.

Ofcourse, it doesn't help in the way that Islamic terrorists work. A majority of their middle section (Henchmen for lack of a better term; Terrorism generally works in a pyramid hiearchy) is composed of uneducated (That's not to say stupid) people who don't even know what the Koran really says for the most part. These people have been poor all their life and as such are easily misled by anyone preaching hope. More importantly is that these people have a very large support base and people who don't support them avert their eyes to their actions.

Currently, there's really one MAJOR problem with handling Terrorism (ontop of: How do you exactly define terrorism?): how to handle it. Is it a military or a criminal endeavor? That's one of the biggest questions going on right now, still. How to handle terrorism and what is the response. If you react to it as though it's a crime, you're put pretty much into a reactionary stage: You can't catch the bad guys unless they're on your turf already. If you're proactive though and use your military, you have to worry about A. the world court frowning upon you and B. defying other nations soveirgnty (Afghanistan, Iraq). Ofcourse there's problems with both, most of which is that they're both really only short term solutions. Terrorism is almost a culture all of it's own, and the only way to combat it is to change the culture (which really rules out seeing terrorism as solely a criminal endeavor).

That ofcourse is easier said then done so it really becomes; do we have the will to do so and will the world cooperate cause something like that involves the level of WW2 germany with unrestricted military and none of the PC stuff that the military has to endure.

Mashu-truth seeker

09-20-2006, 10:46 PM

Give it another few thousands of innocent deaths in country's around the world and I think (hopefully) that the world will wake up and realize this threat for what it really is. I just don't see this coming to any sort of conclusion without radical actions on our own accord.

The longer we wait the more and more disillusioned and brainwashed these countrys will become, plus the fact that many are getting further and further down the path of nuclear advancments, and these people will have absolutly no problem setting one off. Thats why this has become so frightening because then who did it, which country is responsable? etc...

I fear that the last course of action will be to invade all of these countrys and basicly as you said reconstruct their 'culture'. Otherwise they will only become stronger and more radical each passing day.

I was chilled to the bone when in the video the little 3 1/2 year old girl spoke about how the Jews are the biggest threat in the world, thats beyond a crime...

Shinomori

09-21-2006, 12:54 AM

No war against Islamic Fashist will be won as long as the American Left remains unchecked. Like the terrorist, they hate America and wish for this country to be brought down a notch.

WOW.

Bias much?

The "American Left" has just as much right to their opinions as any neo-conservative does. Their opinions (which shall hereby be referred to as "our" opinions, since I am part of this aforementioned "American Left") are not AGAINST America. We are against what America has become - a laughingstock. Where there was freedom, there are now laws like the Patriot Act that rip away the Constitution and replace it with rule by fear. Where there was industry, we have jobs HEMORRHAGING out of the country due to outdated ideas on work and workers. Where there was a sense of security, we now live in terror of the next attack on our nation because of attacks on others. What I, as part of the left (but not all of it, these may or may not be the views of the actual american left, as is the same about the previously stated views), want is a new america that is more focused on improving itself than "improving" other countries.

And now, to go back on topic.

Yes, there is a problem. Islamic militants have become so heartened by their newfound success that they're getting jihad-crazy. Every time someone does something that goes against their religion, they go "JIHAD!" Comics make a caricature of Mohammed? JIHAD! Pope speaks badly about a rival religion? JIHAD! Frankly, it scares me. They don't have the power to do incredible amounts, but the thought of what it could mean for the world isn't very comforting.

Wolfman Walt

09-21-2006, 01:20 AM

Interestingly enough, every country's greatest fear (and this includes Radical Islam) is that the two parties in the US unite on almost every issue. They realize that once this happens, the US won't have much holding it back internally to combat problems such as terrorism. Ofcourse, it's reasonable to that both parties won't agree on much in awhile being that we (representing our mutual parties on the board) find it hard to come to any sort of reasonable conclusion.

they go "JIHAD!" Comics make a caricature of Mohammed? JIHAD!

What I think is funny about the Danish comics (it was the danes that caused all the "trouble" right?) is that Southpark has been showing the prophet Muhammed for years. Since the episode "Super Pals" where Muhammed was a star in it, he's been in every intro sequence and still can be found on the splash screen for southpark with everyone else standing together. Ofcourse, this idea becomes even more hilarious when you realize that during the "Cartoon Wars" episodes, Viacom (comedy central's owners) made them censor the image of Muhammed who was only gonna be a guy standing there.

The other funny thing is about what the pope said. The pope refused to say Islam is a religion of peace, so what do they do? They burn stuff until the pope appologizes. What's worse, is I think these folks (The radical islamic fundamentalists) are giving NORMAL Islamic practicioners a black eye in that now everyone lumps normal Muslims who are just as normal and peaceful as you and I (Well...maybe more you then I, but you get the point) together with them, which is definetly the wrong thing to do. As I mentioned earlier, the only way to really counter these types of terrorists is to change the culture, which you can't do if you treat all muslims as enemies.

Nihsnek

09-21-2006, 01:42 AM

WOW.

Bias much?

The "American Left" has just as much right to their opinions as any neo-conservative does. Their opinions (which shall hereby be referred to as "our" opinions, since I am part of this aforementioned "American Left") are not AGAINST America. We are against what America has become - a laughingstock. Where there was freedom, there are now laws like the Patriot Act that rip away the Constitution and replace it with rule by fear. Where there was industry, we have jobs HEMORRHAGING out of the country due to outdated ideas on work and workers. Where there was a sense of security, we now live in terror of the next attack on our nation because of attacks on others. What I, as part of the left (but not all of it, these may or may not be the views of the actual american left, as is the same about the previously stated views), want is a new america that is more focused on improving itself than "improving" other countries.

Considering that the Patriot Act has been used to find terrorist in America, I would invalidate your opinion in a second.

We have jobs hemorrhaging out of the country due to outdated ideas on work and workers...hmm..let's see. Bill Cliton canceled funding on various major scientific experiments, hydrogen car being one. What exactly is the Left doing to improve the country? Strengthing the ACLU to dismember more public schools, and to kill all of our rights? To take innocent lifes??

We now live in terror??? WE NOW LIVE IN TERROR? We live in terror of the Left bringing America to it's knees! That's what we are in terror of! As long as a Republican is in office, America will NOT fall to radical suicide muslims!

What exactly was JOHN KERRY going to do to help prevent terror? WITHDRAWL FROM THE MIDDLE EAST? WOULD THAT HELP? NO!

Improving ourself??? Besides creating some of the most advanced tech. stuff ever, what else has been going up? Let's see...lowest unemployment rate since who knows when...economy is booming...

I can list as much evidence as needed for proof of what I said earlier.

@Nihsnek - I would personally like to see this evidence. Please post it, for all of us.

Lunatic

09-21-2006, 01:50 AM

Shinomori

09-21-2006, 02:00 AM

Considering that the Patriot Act has been used to find terrorist in America, I would invalidate your opinion in a second.

We have jobs hemorrhaging out of the country due to outdated ideas on work and workers...hmm..let's see. Bill Cliton canceled funding on various major scientific experiments, hydrogen car being one. What exactly is the Left doing to improve the country? Strengthing the ACLU to dismember more public schools, and to kill all of our rights? To take innocent lifes??

We now live in terror??? WE NOW LIVE IN TERROR? We live in terror of the Left bringing America to it's knees! That's what we are in terror of! As long as a Republican is in office, America will NOT fall to radical suicide muslims!

What exactly was JOHN KERRY going to do to help prevent terror? WITHDRAWL FROM THE MIDDLE EAST? WOULD THAT HELP? NO!

Improving ourself??? Besides creating some of the most advanced tech. stuff ever, what else has been going up? Let's see...lowest unemployment rate since who knows when...economy is booming...

I can list as much evidence as needed for proof of what I said earlier.

You're off topic.

Scream if you must.

And initial shock at you posting aside, loonandtick, I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. Burning stuff and declaring that they're going to go to war with any non-Islamic country ISN'T jihad?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2363459,00.html

Declaring jihad ISN'T jihad?

(for the record, I never said they actually DID declare jihad, I said that the THREAT of jihad, i.e. going JIHAD! at everything, is getting rather trite.)

They use this "holy war" thing as a weapon to try and impose their will.

athenaofstarlite

09-21-2006, 03:26 AM

I thank you deeply for posting this. I have been lectured on Muslim and Islam in school but it was still not in-depth enough. This has insipired me to send it to all of my friends.

Most people still think Iraq is conected to Al Queda. American censorship scares me, but not nearly as much as the Iranian propaganda in that video. I was crying by the part with the children (most much younger than my age, mind you) holding guns.

Again, thank you.

Muja

09-21-2006, 04:49 AM

I agree with you lunatic
Most people do not know the true meaning of Jihad, and Islam.
Anyway I didn’t like the part with the kids carrying guns. That’s just wrong.
But is it getting any better in Iraq, Palestine, and other countries around the world?. I don’t believe everything that the media shows us these days. We don’t even know what is really happening anymore. For my opinion it’s more like People against each other.

saycheese

09-21-2006, 06:59 AM

i agree with lunatic and muja. i am gonna blame america for turning middle east into such a hell hole, and while doing so, they actually give extremists power and influence over the people, which initially starts with "kill americans"(which is how the current iranian president got into power) which later turns into "kill westerners" and finnaly into "kill infidels" which is basically every non-muslim there is. most groups fall into the first catagory, and very few fall into the third catagory as they actually have fairly good ties to countries which is not directly related to america. whats even sickening is that americans and british forces have recently made pacts with the iraqi religious leaders in return for safety of their soldiers for the up coming election year. the religious leaders in return get the authority over the lands and can do whatever they like, and 2 common treatments are random execution(identified with taped legs and hands, bare feat and a bullet to the back of the head) and that woman have to wear triditional isslamic clothing or be beaten to death, and these woman actually could ware whatever they wanted under saddam(not saying hes a good fella but hell, the people enjoyed a better life under him). these religous leaders also tell their people who to vote for, and that northern forces makes a pact with the kurds, the forces around baghdad makes pacts with sunni while the southern forces makes pacts with the shiate. and the iraqi police and army cant do jack shit about these religious fantatics while the american and british soldiers role are now to standby and let these fanatics do whatever they want. for gods sakes, this means that the army has completely lost its initiative and will be played around by the authority. not to mention the fact that by doing this, its a fucking mockery to all the soldiers and civillians who died. although economy was the primary objective of the US, bringing peace to iraq was intended. so much for that.

Vampyrelord

09-21-2006, 07:48 AM

mooks

09-21-2006, 10:00 AM

The video was very interesting and informative... but there were some problems i noticed...

first of all, Walid Shoebat... who is a former PLO terrorist, and is commonly referred to as 'the terrorist who turned to love' is not really a credible person when it comes to any side...

His bizarre tale contrasts sharply with the story of another Palestinian immigrant to the United States. Michel Shehadeh, and another Palestinian, Khader Hamide, are currently facing deportation proceedings for being affiliated with the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), which the United States designates as a terrorist organization. Shehadeh has denied any association with the organization.

In 1987, thirteen armed Immigration and Naturalization Services (INS) officers stormed his apartment. Since his initial detention, the case was dropped several times, as judges ruled it unconstitutional to target individuals for First Amendment activities. According to David Cole, a professor of Law at Georgetown, and his one time attorney, he is being deported for "for distributing Palestinian magazines and raising humanitarian aid in Los Angeles more than twenty years ago."

The legal crusade against Shehadeh has taken different turns. Most recently, the Department of Homeland Security tacked on retroactive provisions in the PATRIOT Act. Those First Amendment activities at the center of the proceedings have been re-defined as giving "material support" to a terrorist group under the PATRIOT Act even though the alleged activities and affiliation occurred nearly two decades ago. It also continues to rest its case on the McCarran-Walter Act, which was "declared unconstitutional fourteen years ago and was repealed by Congress thirteen years ago."

Still, no authorities allege that Shehadeh participated in any criminal acts. The Washington Post reported that then-FBI Director William Webster told Congress in 1987 that Shehadeh had not engaged in any terrorist activity and he would not have been detained if he were a US citizen.

For the past seventeen years, Shehadeh faced these charges along with seven others in what has been termed the "LA 8" case. During that time, he remained an outspoken and highly transparent activist as the Western director for the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC), which was founded by ex-Senator James Abourezk.

Compared with Walid Shoebat's self-described record of violence, Michel Shehadeh's first amendment activities are trivial. So trivial in fact that another Palestinian-American activist with a similar history, Imad Hamad, was going to be awarded the "Exceptional Public Service award" by the FBI.

It was revoked after a New York Post article by Debbie Schlussel condemned him for being subject to past deportation proceedings himself, as well has speaking out in defense of other "suspected terrorists." In the Schlusselian plane of logic, Arabs and Muslims, especially politically outspoken ones, are presumed guilty. Acquittals and other legal failures to establish guilt just do not matter to her; being tried is a crime itself. After all, she reasons, it was "political pressure from Michigan politicians" that saved him from deportation, not, we are to believe, the lack of conclusive evidence plus the feeble legal theory holding the case together.

The FBI officially stated that evidence being used against Shehadeh referenced Hamad. As David Cole explained it, "[i]t would have been too much of an embarrassment to honor a man (Hamad) who had once been affiliated with the same Palestinian groups, while trying to deport two men for the same affiliations." John E. Bell Jr., the special agent formerly in charge of the FBI's Detroit office, called the FBI's decision to rescind the award "embarrassing to the FBI and Hamad." Hamad's past role with the PFLP does not differ substantively from Shehadeh's, and both became regional directors of the same mainstream organization. Going after Shehadeh based on charges of terrorism, then, appears to be a stretch to the say the least.

The double standard is obvious. Publicly, Shoebat boasts of a criminal past with an apparent immunity. The key difference between the two is that Shehadeh remained an outspoken supporter of Palestinian rights, whereas Shoebat became a Christian Zionist lauded by pro-Israeli organizations as well as Televangelist Pat Robertson, who interviewed Shoebat on the Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN). As for his violent background, the pro-Israeli community not only turns a blind eye, they actually welcome it. They see it as legitimizing. Central Connecticut State University Professor Jay Bergman, said it gave "his testimony a special credence and credibility that it might otherwise lack." Shoebat's pro-Israeli supporters then validate and benefit from Shoebat's past anti-Israeli violence. While Shehadeh worries about his future and where his family will go in the case of his deportation, Shoebat freely tours synagogues, Hillel centers, and universities where he flaunts his militancy in Palestine. With supporters like Pat Robertson, and close friends of Christian fundamentalism leading the "war on terrorism," it is no surprise this double standard exists.
(source: http://www.counterpunch.org/youmans05052004.html, "Propaganda and Persuasion" by Garth S. Jowett, Pub- Sage Publications INC, 4th edition ISBN: 1412908973)

Secondly, is the rhetoric taken out of context by Dr. Khaleel Mohammed (a proffessor of religious studies at san diego state univ.) I'm very familiar with his books and i have also attended one of his lectured in Geneva in 2001... he is an outspoken supporter of the PLO and palestinian movement as well as a revered expert on internal strife within the muslim community. However i have said enough so far and will talk about Dr. Khaleel in another post

Mashu-truth seeker

09-21-2006, 04:36 PM

hmm, very insightful mook, thanks for the information, everything has a spin and I suppose he just served his purpose by being in this video.

Yes, there is a problem. Islamic militants have become so heartened by their newfound success that they're getting jihad-crazy. Every time someone does something that goes against their religion, they go "JIHAD!" Comics make a caricature of Mohammed? JIHAD! Pope speaks badly about a rival religion? JIHAD! Frankly, it scares me. They don't have the power to do incredible amounts, but the thought of what it could mean for the world isn't very comforting.

Well with the nuclear progress Iran is taking the thought of them not being able to do much goes flying out the window. Not that Iran as a state would set one off but it would be VERY easy for Iran to either sell and or "lose" a few nukes which *shudders* you know what could happen. The only thing that in the end will change any of this is the education of their youth, which is an enormous task, one that almost seems impossible with how cemented into some of these fundamentalists hate has become.

athenaofstarlite, please don't thank me, I just found the video and decided to post it before google removes it completely >_< The creator and the people who were interviewed deserve that praise, if any is praise is deserved at all. Your spreading it around to your friends is what's needed by everyone, if everybody in the world were forced to watch this I think the problem might become a much more serious topic, one that might get dealt with sooner rather than later...

Vampyrelord

09-21-2006, 06:00 PM

Many of these so-called Islamic extremists seem to me to be little more than nihilists hijacking Islam and using it as an excuse for their destructive desires.

There are always dangerous fanatics like this, and they always have a different excuse. To me, the violent society we live in, and have lived in for seemingly the entirety of history, has the effect of producing monsters like these. Of course, there will always be a few nutters, it's unavoidable...

Nihsnek

09-22-2006, 01:37 AM

Nihsnek - Just so you know, it is pretty much common knowlege that Clinton did wonders for the economy. if you can provide any reliable evidence at all to suggest that it was Clinton rather than Bush who is responsible for the current economic slump, I will be impressed.

The economic slump was in full throttle in the 4th quarter of 2000. If you recall, technology stocks cratered, (some might say that this was traceable to Clinton's Attorney General Janet "Waco" Reno's full frontal attack on Microsoft). This in turn triggered a 10% downturn in the stock market. As Bush was assuming office, it was also discovered that original estimates of the budget surplus were wildly overestimated, (oh what a surprise). Unemployment rates and jobless claims were up in the first quarter of 2001, just as Bush was sworn in as President. If you recall, investor confidence in the markets had been shaken by the revelations of massive corporate fraud perpetrated on the investment community; crimes committed at Enron, Crossroads and others in the late 1990's were the headliners. In addition to this set of problems inherited by Bush, 9/11 hit us. So in addition to the first two problems, both of which were manifested long before Bush came into office, he also inherited from the previous administration the unfinished business of fighting terrorism. The 9/11 attack crippled the airline and commercial aerospace business and other related industries. The economy was on the verge of total collapse.

His first priority was to propose a major tax cut, (one of two that would eventually pass), to stimulate the economy. His second priority was to stimulate the economy in the short term with spending, and allowed the dollar to devalue in order to pay back debt with cheaper dollars. His third priority was to spare no expense in going after and prosecuting corporate criminals, (something noticeably absent in the previous administration). The strategy worked. The recession was shallow, job creation, (that would be great paying jobs just so you don't come back with that tired old argument) was brisk, home ownership soared to an all time high and unemployment is currently lower than at anytime during the so-called boom years of Clinton, (which we all know he inherited from Reagan, with Bush Sr. fixing the banking system).

Mashu-truth seeker

09-22-2006, 01:49 AM

Jesus Nihsnek, once again WAY off topic, stop commandeering this thread for a random BS Liberal vs Conservative/Clinton vs Bush debate, either post your own debate thread on the issue or just PM him about it. Go spew your retoric elsewere, no president has control over the economy, period, end of story... And just a little stab at your point, then why is corporate america's profits up 72% and yet homeland america's income is down .5% in the last 5 years, I'd say, if the president has control over such things as you seem to think, that his prioritys and morals are so out of wack its not even funny.

Now either discuss the issue in question or stop posting in this thread.

Nihsnek

09-22-2006, 03:42 AM

Jesus Nihsnek, once agin WAY off topic, stop commandeering this thread for a random BS Liberal vs Conservative/Clinton vs Bush debate, either post your own debate thread on the issue or just PM him about it. Go spew your retoric elsewere, no president has control over the economy, period, end of story... And just a little stab at your point, then why is corporate americas profits up 72% and yet homeland america's income is down .5% in the last 5 years, I'd say, if the president has control over such things as you seem to think, that his prioritys and morals are so out of wack its not even funny.
Now either discuss the issue in question or stop posting in this thread.

Of course the President does not control the economy.....everyone knows that, but apparantely you have no appreciation for what was done.

A. aggressive prosecution of corporate criminals by the executive branch of government helped restore confidence in the markets; that's a big deal.

B. Spending policies agreed to by congress helped stimulate the economy when we were in real trouble.

C. Government bailout of the airline industry was a key factor.

D. Bush's tax reductions passed by Congress have had a direct effect in stimulating growth.

E. Most importantly, the stabaliztion of the "homeland" security with no future attacks brings investor confidence. So if the big stuff the government is responsible for does not get done, then it is impossible to grow an economy.
You rightly point out that profits are up, although your numbers are wrong. So are your income statistics, but hey, it's all relative. The fact is everybody is working, money is being made, we live in relative security, the middle class is paying much less than it's share in taxes, (lowest 50% only contribute 5% of total tax revenues to Uncle Sam, my source is the IRS). Entitlements to the poor and to the middle class are at an all time high and all is well domestically; so what's your beef? That it pains you to give credit for this to Bush? To a Republican Congress?

On a positive note, I will not continue this off-topic discussion here - I only tried to respond to Vampyre and Mashu.

mooks

09-22-2006, 04:16 AM

Yes, there is a problem. Islamic militants have become so heartened by their newfound success that they're getting jihad-crazy. Every time someone does something that goes against their religion, they go "JIHAD!" Comics make a caricature of Mohammed? JIHAD! Pope speaks badly about a rival religion? JIHAD! Frankly, it scares me. They don't have the power to do incredible amounts, but the thought of what it could mean for the world isn't very comforting.

I agree with you to a certain extent... There is a level of extremism that is becoming really hard to tolerate, and everyone feels like they're walking on eggshells...

But in context to the Mohammed caricatures... If anyone is at all familiar with the reigion or culture- out of all the insults and injury that one can impose on Islam... that was seriously the worst case scenario... the reaction was really not a surprise. There is not one muslim who was not offended. The fact that every single muslim country- be it extremist or not... EVEN Saudi Arabia, which is America's best friend (they didn't bat an eyelid during the Israeli Lebanon conflict) could not tolerate the extent of the insult. It's amazing how anyone cannot understand the seriousness of the nature. I guess nothing is worthy of any repsect anymore and is just fair game for 'free speech' to defame... excepts maybe the holocaust, 9/11 and 'democracy'

It's funny, because it goes both ways... Alot of people cannot understand- or fathom the concept that a country would attack another for three years or so because of the actions of six people and their organization, who don't even come from the invaded country. It may be completely natural and justifiable by your standards, but it's completely alien and unconcievable to others.

As for Pope Benedict's comments, as much as they were uncalled for, the response was really extreme. But quoting Paleologus, is really a stupid mistake! especially when inter-faith or inter-religious dialogue is so fragile.

Although Paleologus may be famed for trying to reunite the Eastern Orthodox Church with the Roman Catholic Church among western theologians and history in general, that was they're only achievement which never happened... They main goal of reunification was to get rid of the Turks.

Not only that but they're rise to fame had to with the family's support of the 4th crusade. The crusade before that was geared at re-conquering the Holy land from Saladin, the only person ever to sustain peace and harmony in the region, also respected by all religions and revered as one of greatest men to befit the term legend. Now the 4th crusade included the slaughter of greeks, muslims and catholics living in harmony with them.

Don't you think it's kind of hypocritical to quote such a person from this era to judge the actions of a religion who were persecuted during that era? I mean, we all know what happened during the crusade's... Personally i laughed when i heard about it, i really couldn't believe he would do such an ignorant thing. then again, i can't believe the extent of the protests, or the idiocy to start riots and killings in response to being called violent (THAT, doesn't make any sense-it's their loss)

I'm not justifying the horrible deaths or the slogans chanted during the protests that were made in response... But the extremism is one both sides... we just get the melodramatic version from the media. After 9/11, before the culprit was even fingered, mosques were set on fire, random 'arabs' were whooped and women got raped, it was third page news for a week. The far right in the US have their own protests, as well as the BNP in the UK with equally horrifying remarks- we just don't get the slow-motioned close up with the base organs in the background.

Mashu-truth seeker

09-22-2006, 04:23 AM

Once afreakinggain you could have just PMed me about this, You just got un-banned Nihsnek, don't push your luck, and no, my numbers are about correct, the discrepency of Corporate profits to middle-class profits in the last five years is staggering, sorry, but it is. And no, I don't mind giving dues where dues are deserved but Bush has done nothing but anger America and the rest of the world and made us lose popularity across the board with every nation on Earth.

Back on topic, What do the rest of you think is the ultimate solution to this growing problem with Radicals? (and yes Nihsnek, though I don't agree with it, your opinion is allowed) I'm on a teetering bridge with regards to an all out, multi-national crackdown or if everyone should just pull out and close their borders to all Islamic immigrants until that area cools down or kills each other. That is very extreme and I would really hate to see so many turned away but they're not doing anything about the problem themselves.

If the documentary's numbers are correct then the 85-90% of the non-radicals should be taking care of this problem themselves, it's intimidating I understand but really, they're letting them shit in their own nest in a way. The gang problem in LA was for the most part dealt with by the normal average citizens there and in term has cleaned up a lot in the last 10 years.

Thoughts?

mooks

09-22-2006, 07:08 AM

I find it very hard to come up with any solution regarding this topic.

First off, the internal strife within the muslim community is much more complicated than they're refusal to actively speak out against islamic extremism... it's not unrelated to it, but it is not the only problem. There is the difference in practices regarding sunni's and shi'ites,
there is the difference between arab muslims and asian muslims and how globalization is causing friction between them,
there's the Saudi royal family and it's inability to conform to democracy despite being in bed with the west , the modernization of it's main cities (Riyadh, Jeddah, Dammam and Mecca) and it's effect on arabic life(especially mecca), which is in conflict with Islamic lifestyle,
there's UAE (United Arab Emirates) with it's astounding modernization which hasn't come into terms with it's international aspect and influence and how it is changing the business and investment for the whole region and islamic society with it's modernization (arabic pop stars, sex symbols and materialization of traditional arabic clothing by gucci, prada and so on and what it means and how it affects islamic life).
You have western muslims in the US and Europe with identity crisis, whether to support patriotism or religion first, their inability to integrate into western society with the whole 'terrorism' problem (since it's only muslims doing all the terrorizing; from the western viewpoint, ofcourse.. but are they beginning to see it their way?) as well as Ramadan and how it affects modern lifestyle. You also have the problem of seperating islam from arabic culture, which dominates the religion and the arabs inability to accept non-arabs as muslims despite islam being the fastest growing religion... all of which become huge debates during the Hajj when all muslims come together and becomes it all becomes intertwined together with radical islam which makes the situation very sensitive...

I feel as if the documentary only talks about half of the problem- and then sums up every islamic faction against any aggression into one category and labels them extremists if they have a history of violence.
You have Hamas and PLO in Palestine which is supported by the majority of the muslim world... as they feel Palestine is unjustly treated- there is nothing that can be done to change the attitudes by muslims about this... but the problem begins with suicide bombing- and the culture it's producing... despite the fact that they have no army or means to fight back, this act of desperation is an increasingly worrying debate among muslims. There has to be a way to support those who are terrorized, without supporting the terrorism they inflict. that is the problem with the palestine problem... Which becomes an even bigger debate when it is shi'ites talking about it, and sunni's talking about it...

The extent of radical Islam is seriously taken out of context... for example: there is no doubt that Haj Amin who was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem in the 30's and 40's was a supporter of the movement of nazi germany- but then the footage is used to link him and radical islam today.
Yes, they shared common views, the circumstances are similar, but they are different... there is no direct link between them. Only similar circumstances... and this happens throughout the documentary.

Another example... Dr. Khaleel Mohammed (prof. at san diego state univ.) is in the same documentary as sir Martin Gilbert the historian!!! They have like opposite trains of thought, yet in this documentary they seem to address the same subject.

This documetary reminds me of Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 which, despite it's best intentions, was full of propaganda and half-truths

Fect

09-22-2006, 10:41 PM

Back on topic, What do the rest of you think is the ultimate solution to this growing problem with Radicals? (and yes Nihsnek, though I don't agree with it, your opinion is allowed) I'm on a teetering bridge with regards to an all out, multi-national crackdown or if everyone should just pull out and close their borders to all Islamic immigrants until that area cools down or kills each other. That is very extreme and I would really hate to see so many turned away but they're not doing anything about the problem themselves.

Heh. There is one problem with a "multi-national" crackdown. The U.S. isn't giving anyone else any direction. Europe is frustrated, because they want to help in some way, but as the sheriff of the posse, we aren't giving them any direction. The United States is acting in a unipolar fashion, causing a huge breakdown in negotiations with other countries and with NATO.

Not only that, but U.S. Soft power (ability to ask others to help/influence others to fit our agenda) is declining because of our lack of multipolar action. Fewer and fewer nations are willing to help the U.S. or join its efforts in the global community. Yes, our hard power (armed forces) is at an all time high, but Soft power cannot exist without hard power or vice versa.

To maintain hegemony over the world, the U.S. has to be multipolar, and act as though its not the only nation in this fight.

Bush said in his speech that this is a fight against "Nazis and Soviets of our era," but weren't other nations involved in those fights? Weren't the Nazis defeated by Russia, Britain, and the United States?

Sadly, without multipolar action, we won't be able to pass any agenda to any other country, and soon, we'll plunge the entire world into chaos as they scramble to pick up the "power pieces" that once was the United States.

Jack Van Burace

09-22-2006, 10:49 PM

Heh. There is one problem with a "multi-national" crackdown. The U.S. isn't giving anyone else any direction. Europe is frustrated, because they want to help in some way, but as the sheriff of the posse, we aren't giving them any direction. The United States is acting in a unipolar fashion, causing a huge breakdown in negotiations with other countries and with NATO.
Not only that, but U.S. Soft power (ability to ask others to help/influence others to fit our agenda) is declining because of our lack of multipolar action. Fewer and fewer nations are willing to help the U.S. or join its efforts in the global community. Yes, our hard power (armed forces) is at an all time high, but Soft power cannot exist without hard power or vice versa.
To maintain hegemony over the world, the U.S. has to be multipolar, and act as though its not the only nation in this fight.
Bush said in his speech that this is a fight against "Nazis and Soviets of our era," but weren't other nations involved in those fights? Weren't the Nazis defeated by Russia, Britain, and the United States?
Sadly, without multipolar action, we won't be able to pass any agenda to any other country, and soon, we'll plunge the entire world into chaos as they scramble to pick up the "power pieces" that once was the United States.
What I don't get is why do United Statiens seem to believe there is a need for directioning in the world. That they are world sheriffs, and that they need 'Hard power', as you stated. Latin america, as a whole, doesn't have any kind of power to prevent beeing invaded/abused/destryed by US military power. And yet, we live peacefully everyday. Miracle?! I don't really understand why does US citizens believe war could be necessary, and meddling into other peoples countries would be of any good. That's what created terrorism, yoiu know? CIA taught the Mujahedeen how to make bombs to fight the Taleban, and then taught the Taleban how to make bombs to take down the Mujahedeen. Last chapter we've seen the US invaded Afghanistan and help once again the Mujahedeen to take over. Why do you believe getting into other people's business will be any good??

Mashu-truth seeker

09-22-2006, 11:07 PM

What I don't get is why do United Statiens seem to believe there is a need for directioning in the world. That they are world sheriffs, and that they need 'Hard power', as you stated. Latin america, as a whole, doesn't have any kind of power to prevent beeing invaded/abused/destryed by US military power. And yet, we live peacefully everyday. Miracle?! I don't really understand why does US citizens believe war could be necessary, and meddling into other peoples countries would be of any good. That's what created terrorism, yoiu know? CIA taught the Mujahedeen how to make bombs to fight the Taleban, and then taught the Taleban how to make bombs to take down the Mujahedeen. Last chapter we've seen the US invaded Afghanistan and help once again the Mujahedeen to take over. Why do you believe getting into other people's business will be any good??

Probably because things like WWII would have gone unchecked, if everyone thought like you do we'd all be speaking German/Japanese... I understand your viewpoint because I've heard the same ignorant rhetoric in the past by tons of people but it doesn't work, power that goes unchecked will eventually take over. Concerning the middle east I agree that whatever we do just backfires in the end because those people are nearly unhelpable but we're still at least trying instead of just letting them walk around without atleast attempting to make a balance of some sort. Your silence won't save you.

Heh. There is one problem with a "multi-national" crackdown. The U.S. isn't giving anyone else any direction. Europe is frustrated, because they want to help in some way, but as the sheriff of the posse, we aren't giving them any direction. The United States is acting in a unipolar fashion, causing a huge breakdown in negotiations with other countries and with NATO.

Not only that, but U.S. Soft power (ability to ask others to help/influence others to fit our agenda) is declining because of our lack of multipolar action. Fewer and fewer nations are willing to help the U.S. or join its efforts in the global community. Yes, our hard power (armed forces) is at an all time high, but Soft power cannot exist without hard power or vice versa.

To maintain hegemony over the world, the U.S. has to be multipolar, and act as though its not the only nation in this fight.

Bush said in his speech that this is a fight against "Nazis and Soviets of our era," but weren't other nations involved in those fights? Weren't the Nazis defeated by Russia, Britain, and the United States?

Sadly, without multipolar action, we won't be able to pass any agenda to any other country, and soon, we'll plunge the entire world into chaos as they scramble to pick up the "power pieces" that once was the United States.

I will agree that the current administration hasn't been adept at making any foreign friends in whats transpired, but really the rest of the world should be able to help without us having to tell them what to do, Bush is a joke. Russia, the UK, parts of Africa and many other places have been bombed and had problems with Islamic fundamentalism so really they should be just as worried as we are, but really all they can do is be angry at us because we haven't done precisly what the UN had wanted America to do, which is stay out of the situation, except for Afgahnistan.

The middle east is one big cluster ****. Theres really nothing one can do diplomaticly or peacfully that will have any impact on the situation there. And soon with the introduction of WMD's in Iran the whole network of insurgency and terrorism becomes a lot more scary than it currently is. I just don't want to see another world war if it can be avoided here and now, but with the way Jack wants it we should just let them march all over the world without opposition until its to late, which then everyone will be screaming at us again, blaiming America for the problems and why we didn't stop it sooner....

And Mooks, the only thing I take seriously in any of these documentory's is the footage from the country's of discussion. Whatever the rest of the individuels say is always going to have a spin, a bias so I normally don't take what they're saying to heart anyway. I'm just extremely worried about the youth their creating there and the growing grip of unchecked hatred thats starting to grow beyond its normal minority boundrys. 10-15% (if the numbers are correct) is a huge amount already, and with the amount of child programming that these extremists are using its just getting out of hand.

The whole of modernization and the conflicts within the Arab community are a huge issue and one that is so complicated that its almost impossible to appease everyone, yet something drastic is going to be needed not only by us but by the real victims in all of this which is the Muslims themselves or I forsee a war much larrger than what most want to admit too.

Jack Van Burace

09-22-2006, 11:13 PM

power that goes unchecked will eventually take over
Funny you should say that. Who checks US power??

Or do you say: "it's ok to take over because it's us, not them"?

Mashu-truth seeker

09-22-2006, 11:32 PM

Funny you should say that. Who checks US power??

Or do you say: "it's ok to take over because it's us, not them"?

Are we going unchecked? I didn't think we were the ones subjigating our women and commiting mass genocides with chemical weapons and the whole sale slaughter of thousands over 30 years of tyrannical rule. Once again don't speak about things you know nothing about. Besides, the UN checks us on everything...

Jack Van Burace

09-22-2006, 11:39 PM

Besides, the UN checks us on everything...
That's why the forbidden the Iraq invasion and you did it anyway... right!

Mashu-truth seeker

09-22-2006, 11:43 PM

Jack Van Burace

09-22-2006, 11:53 PM

Maybe because the tyrant we implanted was going out of control and the UN didn't want to look badly, but you being from latin america its ok to have horrible tyrannical rulers right, thats really all your country's have... The more the better...
LOL! Thank you for pointing it out how prejudicial your judgement is! And you still believe the rest of the world is full of morons who can't even tie their shoe-laces, tsc. I'm really not trying to offend you, but beeing the "truth-seeker" you should question more your surroundings, and look into things more deeply than "it's something too complicated for you don't understand...". LOL! "it's a technicallity, we're the US and we have to babysit the world!" :rolleye09

Mashu-truth seeker

09-23-2006, 12:13 AM

Jack Van Burace

09-23-2006, 12:23 AM

I'm sorry, but I have done much more for the world in researching than you probably has. I see many people working at the labs I used to, and their work goes published on international magazines. I don't see anyone sitting here and bit.ching. On the contrary, I see many hard and very competent workers. Latin america's main export product is people, and not restaurant workers or low jobs like you're probably thinking.

Having military power is not much of a contribution, is it?

Mashu-truth seeker

09-23-2006, 12:33 AM

Ya, get uppety after just saying what you did, HAHAHA, you call me prejudice... wow, your somethin else... I'm a welder for a machine shop, but I have seen that we are the world leaders in research and devolopment of technology in the areas of medicine/agriculture/military/computers/transportation etc.. And to think that you put those words in my mouth, when did I say only small class workers, which are essential to all economys, only come out of your countrys. This only shows the pure ridiculous ignorant hate that spews from you and many like you about the US and our views, or what you think our views are.

After having this debate with you I can see why so many people act the way they do because they buy into the retarded propoganda of your countrys media about how evil and militaristic the US is.

Jack Van Burace

09-23-2006, 12:41 AM

My point is not that US can't contribute to "mankind wealth". Have you ever accessed this much culture generated? I don't wanna transfer the discussion to that, so I won't insist on it. But it's good to know you're not prejudicious about jobs at least.

My point exactly is, we are INDEPENDENT of the USA, and not sit back country. Just like you probably not working at welding instead of a high paying executive because you're sit back. I know you would like to get very well payed like they do, but you do contribute to the world too, don't you? Well, my country, and none other I guess, is a "sit back country" like you said. And I don't think we need USA to cook our meals for us. Believe me!

Mashu-truth seeker

09-23-2006, 12:56 AM

I didn't say you couldn't take care of yourselves, and what I meant by sit-back is in the international arena, not personal affairs if I was misinterpreted. The foreign issues of the world always involve the US and though sometimes its a painful show to watch, it is necassary in todays world to be invloved when your a country of our size and power. I wish everyone would be nice and helpful and succeful and no tyrants existed but thats not the case and we're more than not called upon to be the middle-men in such endevors of unstabilized situations.

mooks

09-23-2006, 07:14 AM

Prejudice? I'm just trying to explain to you that what were doing doesn't concern countrys that can only sit back and bitc.h while never doing anything about it themselves. If your not going to get involved then stfu, I'm not calling you stupid, just ignorant, and I hold onto that.
You have no idea how much the world relys on us, really, between us and China we hold the vast majority of economic and military power in the world, yet all anyone of the smaller countrys can do is go "gimme gimme gimme" and then spit on us after we do, calling us murderers and oppresors. I just wish for once that the US would cut all foreign aid from every country in the world and see how long it takes for everyone to come crawling, kicking and yelling, back to us.
And yes, we do "babysit" a large portion of the world because we have the most power and in todays modernized climate its only natural that we would. But to be called war mongers after all the good things that we do for the world its just kind of backhanded, no its really backhanded.

Y'see, this is the main problem... People who think the world revolves around the US. If you were to just visit any european, or asian country you would see that the world can survive just fine without help from the US... It's not like they make the best cars, tv's or phones... or dominate exports of raw materials (sawgum, steel, oil, copper, wood, cotton, etc) or dominate food exports (coffee, tea, rice, beef, etc GM foods are an exception the US dominates like there's no tomorrow). America dominates in Information, and space technology. Medical research is not dominated by the US, but monopolized by them(Pfizer may be the biggest research-based company but doesn't dominate in advancement). and That's what globalization is for... for america to sell thy're products to other countries because most wouldn't buy them . It's the World Bank and IMF that the world revolves around. An unwritten rule establishes that the IMF's managing director must be European and that the president of the World Bank must be from the United States. Executive Directors, who confirm the managing director are voted in by Finance Ministers from countries they represent. The IMF is for the most part controlled by the major Western Powers, with voting rights on the Executive board based on a quota derived from a monetary stake in the institution. Rarely does the board vote and pass issues contradicting the will of the US or Europeans. The IMF is considered to be responsible for worsening or actually creating famine in Malawi (2002), Ethiopia (2003) and Niger (2005). AND THAT is the reason why the US gives foreign aid. Speaking of foreign aid- it's just public relations and a money shot for camera's... US foreign aid doesn't really help in the long run-

The headquarters may be in washington, but it's not an American institute... and if i remember correctly, the US has the most outstanding debt more than any other country. The only 'good' US export is the music or movies, apart from that.. it's through some underhanded, political technicality from a supposedly international constitution

When it comes to being tyrranical.. the US holds the torch, most of the corporations abroad are the ones that support dictators in third world countries.. (Shell in Nigeria, Unical in Afghanistan; Caterpillar in Brazil, Venezuela.. Coca-cola under the names Dasani and BonAqua in India, DOW Chemical in Vietnam). And when it comes to corporations committing atrocities and human right violations... the list is endless. A seperate thread needs to made to hold the magnitude of offences to be discussed.
They tried to privatize water in Ghana and Tanzania for crying out loud. Privatizing water- y'know what that means? It means if rain falls, people can't collect water because it belongs to the company... and people think the US helps other countries out of 'goodness' of their hearts, HA!

You have to look under what context the US controls so much of world resources.

Mashu-truth seeker

09-23-2006, 05:11 PM

I already stated that others can take care of themselves but as in the other thread I've decided since so many just want to spit on us, well I'm gonna petition to get all aid pulled from all foreign nations so I don't have to worry about it any longer... Why help others when we can just help ourselves more huh? Might as well since thats all the rest of the world thinks about us anyway.

And I've been to the UK, Morocco, Spain, France and Eqypt and for people in the UK Spain and France yes, they do fine by themselves, but head to Morocco where you get flooded by people who just want you to buy all of these little trinkits and baubles from them, then when you've helped out as much as your willing to the rest of them call you petty and cheap because you didn't buy their little bracelets etc... They expect me out of the box to buy this crap from them because I'm American, but if I won't I'm a horrible human being... I'ts no different in the big picture so like I said, I'll make it my duty to get all of the horrible foreign aid pulled from all of the self-sufficient country's we give it too. If no one needs us then so be it...

I'm done debating people who hate America for the most self-rightious, pompous, intolorant reasons, things I've been fed since I was a child from foreign media.

Jack Van Burace

09-23-2006, 07:18 PM

The people your government left in charge the FIRST TIME was a Tyrant, a murderer, and a torturer. The people your country left in charge THIS TIME are executioners and torturers too, but now they call it a "democracy". Saddan used to be elected by voting too, you know? 99% the last one, lol! Big deal!!!

Nobody hates US for pompous reasons. That's your prejudice talking since people in Morocco try to sell things thru all means, even emotional blackmail. XD And you have widened it to just anything foreign, believing in the self image that USA is out there to help, to fix it's mistakes, and isn't appreciated by that. Perhaps you live like that, and is a person like that. But think straight: your country isn't doing anything nice out there. Maybe even the soldiers believed they were on a "freedom mission" perhaps...

mooks

09-24-2006, 08:47 AM

And I've been to the UK, Morocco, Spain, France and Eqypt and for people in the UK Spain and France yes, they do fine by themselves, but head to Morocco where you get flooded by people who just want you to buy all of these little trinkits and baubles from them, then when you've helped out as much as your willing to the rest of them call you petty and cheap because you didn't buy their little bracelets etc... They expect me out of the box to buy this crap from them because I'm American, but if I won't I'm a horrible human being... I'ts no different in the big picture so like I said, I'll make it my duty to get all of the horrible foreign aid pulled from all of the self-sufficient country's we give it too. If no one needs us then so be it...

seriously...

Your comparing foreign aid to street vendors. Seriously.

I mean, seriously...

are you serious?

chipp zanuff

09-24-2006, 09:16 PM

Your title is so funny and at the same time so ridicules, what radical war are you talking about? Muslims don’t have even the power to free their countries that are under occupation, they’re so weak; also they can’t use the media for their aims. Are you telling me that they are fighting the west by some agents and extremist who are pretending Islam? Or by some ignorant people who can’t read the holy Koran? Rubbish, the only radical war that I see is the radical Christian war with the command of Bush, in every declaration, he uses words like (crusade war), (radicals muslims), and every time Rice tries to save the situation, and the pope quoted says from an ancient roman empery, and this says associated the violent and Islam, he knows that the current situation between Arabs and western people is already bad and it doesn’t need any irresponsible words to be worse. for me, I thing there is a new generation of radical christians have born in western countries, and the radical muslims are disappearing .

The Islam is the only religion that doesn’t care about others religion, here in Emirates (thank god, there’s someone said UAE not Dubai), we find many people from many countries from different religions, nobody cares if you are muslim or not, they only work together without any problems, there are mosques, churches, synagogues and temples. Everybody has his rights and do his job.

Did you hear a jaw or Christian suffered from oppression in any Arabian or Islamic country? No, it didn’t happen and it won’t happen? Did you hear an Islamic declaration enraged jaws or Christian? No, not at all, do you know way? Because Islam is a tolerant religion, it respects others, their religions and their beliefs. Also Islam welcomes the new Muslims, al Zakah (charity) is given to 8 kinds of people including the new muslims, Islam gives them this money to start a new life.

Arabs and Muslims are people like you, they want their rights to be return to them, and they want people to respect them and their religion. Also there is something unique in Arabs, they care so much about their pride and their honor, if you humiliate them, it will be a very big problem, they are patient but not in theses things. They are so kind, naïve and generous.

I said this before and I’ll say it again Islam is the religion of peace and love, it is innocent from the deeds of few muslims, if you think that muslims are bad and violent, that’s because they are far from the tenets of Islam.

If you want to know more about al jihad, enter this website: www.islamworld.net/
This is a direct link about the different between jihad and terrorism http://www.thetruereligion.org/terror.htm

animalistic

09-25-2006, 10:25 AM

The problem is many people are ignorant to the fact of where these people are coming from...not every single bad thing that happens that involves muslims mean its jihad or w/e as the movie indicates

Also alot of people are ignorant about wat happens and accuse all muslims for being part of this...also

both islamist fundamentalists AND americans ALL misunderstand the true meaning of jihad....
you are completely right, jihaad os supposed to fighting for our religion, and a person who dies during this is called shaheed and they are supposed to go straight to heaven, now some of the muslims think that if they go and blow themselves up they will go to heaven, apparently they forgot to read the part in islam that tells us that suicide is against our religion and obviously you wont got to heaven if you do so. Just wanted to clear this up. Now those "confused" muslims really piss me off cuz its all becuz of them that whenever somethin blows up every blames the muslims even if there was no proof wut so ever. Also did you see the movie Inside man, the part where the police take the mask of the indian and theyre like "o shit he's an arab" cuz he had a long beard, that part was really funny but at the same time i was thinkin "wtf is that supposed to mean?"

shadow_of_89

09-26-2006, 08:40 PM

They have created preconceptions about Islam....and they are ignorant enough so they won't give a nickle on finding out more about it....U can't help it.....this is our world....humans do enjoy beeing played and have others think for them.....

Nihsnek

09-27-2006, 09:59 PM

Once afreakinggain you could have just PMed me about this, You just got un-banned Nihsnek, don't push your luck, and no, my numbers are about correct, the discrepency of Corporate profits to middle-class profits in the last five years is staggering, sorry, but it is. And no, I don't mind giving dues where dues are deserved but Bush has done nothing but anger America and the rest of the world and made us lose popularity across the board with every nation on Earth.
Back on topic, What do the rest of you think is the ultimate solution to this growing problem with Radicals? (and yes Nihsnek, though I don't agree with it, your opinion is allowed) I'm on a teetering bridge with regards to an all out, multi-national crackdown or if everyone should just pull out and close their borders to all Islamic immigrants until that area cools down or kills each other. That is very extreme and I would really hate to see so many turned away but they're not doing anything about the problem themselves.
If the documentary's numbers are correct then the 85-90% of the non-radicals should be taking care of this problem themselves, it's intimidating I understand but really, they're letting them shit in their own nest in a way. The gang problem in LA was for the most part dealt with by the normal average citizens there and in term has cleaned up a lot in the last 10 years.
Thoughts?

And you could have PMed me :headbang.

Have any sources for you information? I forgot, America is running for #1 in the popularity contest...

While I don't have an exact plan, cleaning out the scum from the true Muslims is what will be done. Taking care of some of the largest terrorist groups will bring Muslim extremistism down a notch.

The bottom line is, we can't ignore the rising of this cult. History has shown many times what has happened under such extreme cults, and what will happen.