Yoruichi vs Byakuya [Manga Spoilers]

[agatelinks]

HM, how bout yoruichi vs byakuya?

I'm sure it intrigues us how the Shihouin Princess call the Noble Kuchiki as "Byakuya Bo" (i'm practically collapsed laughing when i watch the scene despite the heat of the battle) *remembering the tone yoruichi have used...*

'how dare she call him like that' you think?

so, how bout an extended fight between them? will "Byakuya Bo" wins if he really tried?

IMO, he will not. The goddess of flash step is just a little one step ahead of him...

but things will go differently in long time battle of course.

[Jay3205]

I think Byakuya would win. Doesn't Yoruichi even say nobody there (meaning her and Ichigo) had the ability to beat Byakuya at that point (on the bridge). We also know that Byakuya is capable of at least keeping up with and defending agaisnt Yoruichi's speed. If Yoruichi could beat Byakuya, why would she need to take Ichigo and run in the first place? I doubt Ukitake would've jumped in.

[Kyouka Suigetsu]

Going by the manga, Yoruichi has more than enough power to defeat Byakuya, but I think she was being honest with her comment. The problem is that her power is all based around close quarters fighting. Senbonzakura is one of the worst zanpakutous to try and combat in such a way because of its nature. She would get shredded by his bankai, but probably not by his shikai due to her reiatsu. Catwoman would put up one helluva fight. Ultimately, she would lose. Kuchiki would probably have more than a couple casts at the end of it though. He might need to have some teeth replaced too.

[esrz22]

Depends. If she can get him into a game of tag/flash step chase, well, she's Goddess of Flash. In such a situation, she'd probably tire Byakuya out. Alternatively, she could use said flash steps to run and grab a giant magnet. Sebonzakura's useless if it's stuck to something! Thirdly, she could grab Soifon, force her into Shikai, and use her as a living weapon. That's a bit unfair, though. Fourth option, she switches to cat mode and suprises Byakuya with a Death From Above. Fifth option, Sebonzakura tears her apart. :p

[Jay3205]

I don't think Byakuya would fall for a game of cat and mouse, seeing as he probably knows by now that he can't match Yoruichi in speed. Using a magnet wouldn't be a good idea because it would attract petals towards Yoruichi. If Byakuya uses extra reiatsu to move the petals slightly off target, Yoruichi would be hit.

Really, this was a bad matchup for Yoruichi due to the nature of Yoruichi's attacks and how Byakuya attacks.

[esrz22]

Using a magnet wouldn't be a good idea because it would attract petals towards Yoruichi. If Byakuya uses extra reiatsu to move the petals slightly off target, Yoruichi would be hit.

No, see, it's a really strong magnet. No amount of reiatsu can move those petals from its tug. They don't exactly go to Yoruchi. They go to the source of the magetic field, and so stick uselessly to the thing. :p
Yeah, wee bit silly. :p

[Guy]

No, see, it's a really strong magnet. No amount of reiatsu can move those petals from its tug. They don't exactly go to Yoruchi. They go to the source of the magetic field, and so stick uselessly to the thing. :p
Yeah, wee bit silly. :p

Oh really? And where have we seen that in Bleach?

To the topic! If Yoruichi didn't escape Soul Society, Byakuya would get pwned. Yoruichi may be faster than Byakuya, but without Suzumebachi, she is at a rather big disadvantage.

Now, it has been made clear to me that in another thread, bankai Ichigo is WAY faster than Yoruichi. Bankai Ichigo was able to deflect Kageyoshi's petals, but Yoruichi, without a zanpakuto and inferior speed, will not be able to. In other words, she's screwed once Kageyoshi is released. If she still had Suzumebachi, then she would stand a chance.

[Astranagun]

Byakuya win.
With the final form of his Senbonzaku Kageyoshi (killing with his own hand) there is no room for Yoruichi FlashStep, no matter how fast she is, she cant go out and she will DOOM

[xiaoshawn]

yoruichi would most probably win, whats that ability called again? is it shunkou? the one which combines kidou with hakudou, it is rather powerful in the manga

[esrz22]

Oh really? And where have we seen that in Bleach?

Oh, well, I'd imagine the Real World has one somewhere. :p

I'll agree with the Shredding of Yoruichi outcome, much as a love her.

[Undying]

Please keep the discussion at least semi-serious.

Byakuya would probably defeat Yoruichi, because his reach is more, and I doubt Yoruichi is fast enough to avoid senbosakura kageyoushi effectively.

Also, her hits would meet witha wall of cutting petals so she won't do much damage.

[Guy]

Also, her hits would meet witha wall of cutting petals so she won't do much damage.

Yeah, once Kageyoshi surrounds Yoruichi, she's screwed. Ichigo came out fine because he was faster and he had a blade to deflect the petals. Yoruichi, first of all, is slower, and without a blade, knocking the petals back will only injure herself.

[pero_renji!]

I think that Yoruichi's Shunko , speed and skills in Kidou would prevail over Byakuya , but it would be one hell of a fight

[Jay3205]

I think that Yoruichi's Shunko , speed and skills in Kidou would prevail over Byakuya , but it would be one hell of a fight

Then why did she say she couldn't beat Byakuya...

[Kyouka Suigetsu]

Lets put it this way, she'd brutally beat unreleased or shikai Byakuya into the ground. Bankai Byakuya would shred her to pieces. His soul slayer would protect him from her attacks and would also make her pay dearly for every attack she attempted. Finally, her shunpo skills are irrelevant when Kuchiki starts controlling Kageyoshi with his hands. Yoruichi would end up being cornered and having a ton of razors getting dumped onto her.

[DarkEyedHero]

Byakuya. hands down. She may be faster than him, but he proved he can counter that with sebonzakura

[Kyouka Suigetsu]

It wouldn't be entirely one sided. Yoruichi could potentially kill Byakuya before he brings his bankai out if she wanted to.

[Guy]

Yoruichi will put up a tough fight, but I doubt she can kill Byakuya before he calls forth his bankai. At the bridge, Yoruichi did not even bother to fight Byakuya because she knows the strength gap.

[Kyouka Suigetsu]

If you have watched 114, then you know that there is no such strength gap. Yammy is far more durable than most shinigami excluding monsters like Aizen and Yamamoto. Arrancar have a natural trait for such and I'll let the anime explain to spare you from spoiling. Byakuya would not take one of Yoruichi's blows well, and he might not even be able to speak if she hit him in the right place or hard enough, so no Bankai.

He'd clearly win if he brought it out though. Byakuya's entire victory hinges on him bringing out Kageyoshi since it is the perfect counter for Yoruichi's abilities.

[Guy]

Yeah, I know that, I've seen the episode. So does that mean Yoruichi got stronger since the encounter with Byakuya on the bridge, because I seem to remember vaguely that Yoruichi was somewhat hesitant to fight Byakuya...

[nouscomd]

As far as I know yoruichi doesnt have a sword or a blade.. She cant win..
K.Byakuya would win ;)

[Kyouka Suigetsu]

Being able to harm an opponent has nothing to do with having a soul slayer. It has to do with how much reiatsu is backing your attacks and the clarity of your intent. For example, Hitsugaya's shikai was only able to make Yammy laugh; Yoruichi's fists caused him to double over in pain. Her melee attacks are stronger than most shinigami's shikais.

I can't understand why you guys don't get this. I've said that Yoruichi could only take Byakuya out in his unreleased or shikai state. In both those situations, she could use her superior shunpo to deliver devastating blows to his body. If he's able to bring out his bankai beforehand or summon his bankai during the battle then it goes completely in his favor.

[Zorokai]

no way is that possible
i reacon yoruichi will win she like way powerfuller than byakuya,
byakuya couldnt even defeat ichigo no way can he defeat yoruichi

[Guy]

Byakuya couldn't defeat Ichigo? What are you talking about? Byakuya still standing after fighting Ichigo meant he couldn't beat him? Byakuya GAVE the victory to Ichigo; he could've just killed him with kidou right there.

Also, are you saying that Yoruichi is stronger than Ichigo? Wtf? Are you watching Bleach by Kubo Taito? Ichigo would beat Yoruichi. Yoruichi is not as fast as Bankai Ichigo, and Kageyoshi will defeat Yoruichi. I do agree with Kyouka that shikai Byakuya will lose though.

[koolspot]

Byakuya couldn't defeat Ichigo? What are you talking about? Byakuya still standing after fighting Ichigo meant he couldn't beat him? Byakuya GAVE the victory to Ichigo; he could've just killed him with kidou right there.
Also, are you saying that Yoruichi is stronger than Ichigo? Wtf? Are you watching Bleach by Kubo Taito? Ichigo would beat Yoruichi. Yoruichi is not as fast as Bankai Ichigo, and Kageyoshi will defeat Yoruichi. I do agree with Kyouka that shikai Byakuya will lose though.


As far as i know, the goddess of flash youruichi is not slower than anyone there.
Ichigo´s speed put byakuya in a lot of trouble. Clearly youruichi is faster than byakuya, and in the bridge scene you can see that...

[Guy]

As far as i know, the goddess of flash youruichi is not slower than anyone there.
Ichigo´s speed put byakuya in a lot of trouble. Clearly youruichi is faster than byakuya, and in the bridge scene you can see that...

Wrong place to debate about this. Yoruichi is not faster than bankai Ichigo. She could not dodge Byakuya's swings. Bankai Ichigo managed to deflect MILLIONS of blades. Clearly, bankai Ichigo is WAY faster. Yoruichi without a zanpakutou cannot defend herself against kageyoshi.

[h0f5]

do remember however, the explosive strength of shunko should be able to blast off byakuya's bankai. In bleach, kageyoshi's strength lies not in the fact that its millions of blades giving it huge flexibility, but in its strength altogether. Kageyoshi's strength lies in its power as a whole, so an equal amount of power should be able to overwhelm it... possibly.

Speed wise though, byakuya should be almost equal or superior to yoruichi, given the fact that even ichigo wasnt fast enough to evade it.

[Jay3205]

Actually, Kageyoshi's strength is in the fact that it is hundreds of millions of blades, as Byakuya states. It does not seem to be such a powerful bankai in strength, seeing as Ichigo is relatively unharmed from being hit by it. After all, its power is spread throughout the hundreds of millions of petals, and not even a million can hit an opponent at one time.

Yoruichi's shunko would initially blast away the petals, but will not constantly keep them away.

[Guy]

People are also forgetting Kageyoshi is NOT Byakuya's most poweful weapon; senkei and hakuteiken are both far more dangerous, and had Byakuya sended all the swords down at once at bankai Ichigo, I believe senkei would have killed him. Ichigo needed help from his Hollow side to even the grounds with hakuteiken Byakuya, so unless one is saying Ichigo is weaker than Yoruichi, then I guess Byakuya wins if he goes bankai.

[DireCry]

Wow, not a bad battle. I would reckon Yoruichi would win, just because she is incredibley swift and what she did to that Arrancar in 115 was awesome.

EDIT: Correction, it was 115.

[Hiyuu Tatsuma]

i would like to say Byakuya but yourichi would win in the end but it would be a good match .yourichi would strip to put Byakuya off of she just fight nude form the start

[Jay3205]

Byakuya would win this... Yoruichi stated this herself. If she was so powerful and skillful, why didn't she just beat Byakuya on the bridge herself and end the whole ordeal?

Byakuya's bankai is the perfect attack to fight against Yoruichi. Yoruichi is slower than bankai Ichigo, and she has no weapon to attack with. She can't block Byakuya's bankai, and she'll take damage everytime Byakuya blocks her.

yourichi would kick ass shes hot and powerful! hands down winner
Isn't this considered spam?

[h0f5]

well why not? Urahara himself could have gone down and defeated renji and byakuya and saved rukia from being taken back to ss, but he didnt, why? Probably that was necessary to let ichigo become stronger in case he needs to do somehting else. Of course, byakuya is probably still going to win. He is a pretty awesome captain if he would go full strength ( all senkei swords at once )

[Jay3205]

I'll say it again... if Yoruichi could beat Byakuya, why did she say she could not? This is about as much proof as you can get that Byakuya would win...

Urahara could've beaten Byakuya and Renji, but what would've been the point really? More captains would've come to take her away, and the end result would be the same. He also seems to have alterior motives. Yoruichi does not have much of a hidden agenda, so she wouldn't run away from Byakuya if her end goal is to beat Byakuya and save Rukia.

[Daniel_Sama]

Byakuya would definelty win. Yoruichi does not have the speed that Ichigo has in his bankai form and thus she would be shredded by Byakuya's petals.

[Samanosuke]

Wow this is actually a pretty close match-up.

Byakuya got this by the ass though, because the only edge Yoruichi has here is speed. (If anyone wants to prove that Yoruichi's attack power is bigger then Byakuya's, have fun lol)

Byakuya has the ultimate range advantage here, Senbonzakura + High Level Bakudous + decent Hadous, will be Yoruichi's downfall as long as Byakuya can keep his distance.

[diamondedge]

yoruichi would most probably win, whats that ability called again? is it shunkou? the one which combines kidou with hakudou, it is rather powerful in the manga
She herself admitted she has not mastered that move herself.

As she admitted she wouldn't be able to beat Byakuya. She may be faster than him, but Byakuya is not one trick wonder.

[sonflour_@))!]

Good god, let's hope he doesn't win. I wouldn't want Sandal hat on my ass for that victory...lol! I actually like Byakuya....

Seeing as how I haven't seen Yoruichi's bankai nor the extent of her powers I'd have to lean towards her. Age and experience might do Byakuya-bo in.
Also she hasn't fought in a while so if she were to do some warm-ups, there'd be a problem for Kuchiki-sama...

This wouldn't be an easy fight though...

sonflour

[DarkSlayer]

People are also forgetting Kageyoshi is NOT Byakuya's most poweful weapon; senkei and hakuteiken are both far more dangerous, and had Byakuya sended all the swords down at once at bankai Ichigo, I believe senkei would have killed him. Ichigo needed help from his Hollow side to even the grounds with hakuteiken Byakuya, so unless one is saying Ichigo is weaker than Yoruichi, then I guess Byakuya wins if he goes bankai.
I'm not doubting what you're saying as far as Byakuya > Yoruichi, but when it comes to Ichigo needing help from his hollow - he needed ogichi's help because he had JUST acheived bankai. His body wasn't used to the incredible amount of energy he possessed in bankai, and he had pushed his body to the limit. When Byakuya had released Senkei, he was only a tad stronger than Ichigo. He only appeared to be getting faster and stronger to Ichigo because Ichigo was tiring and slowing down. I don't think it's really fair to compare Ichigo's unmastered Bankai to Yoruichi's skill as a former captain. (IMO)

(I honestly think if Ichigo had been a bit more time to work with his Bankai before facing Byakuya, that fight would have been a LOT more intense due to the fact that Byakuya would have been a bit more serious when fighting Ichigo)

But yeah - Byakuya > Yoruichi.

[Undying]

I'm not doubting what you're saying as far as Byakuya > Yoruichi, but when it comes to Ichigo needing help from his hollow - he needed ogichi's help because he had JUST acheived bankai. His body wasn't used to the incredible amount of energy he possessed in bankai, and he had pushed his body to the limit. When Byakuya had released Senkei, he was only a tad stronger than Ichigo. He only appeared to be getting faster and stronger to Ichigo because Ichigo was tiring and slowing down.
(I honestly think if Ichigo had been a bit more time to work with his Bankai before facing Byakuya, that fight would have been a LOT more intense due to the fact that Byakuya would have been a bit more serious when fighting Ichigo)
But yeah - Byakuya > Yoruichi.
Just a tiny correction - Ichigo needed Hollow not just because he couldn't use bankai properly yet, but because he allowed it to tire him (he got tired and so his speed dropped).

He could technically beat Byakuya without help right off the bat.

[Seff vi Britannia]

As Undy said, that battle was technically over as soon as Ichigo released bankai. He could have Byakuya the instant he did, so yeah. He just let the fight drag on because

a. It's shounen
b. He's stupid.

[DarkSlayer]

@Undy - Oh yeah...Ichigo did kinda wtfpwn Byakuya with his speed in Bankai after he released. He was just kinda toying with Byakuya to try and "stomp on his pride" a little moar.

Guess I let my Byakuya fanboyism get the best of my memory :p

I remembered Byakuya as being a bit moar powerful (cause he did start to kick Ichigo's ass once Ichi got tired ((sword in foot + white lightning to the chest/shoulder)).)

[Seff vi Britannia]

Yeah, that's not Byakuya being more powerful; that's Ichigo getting weaker as time went on.

[Jeggo]

Yoruichi doesnt use a Soul Slayer. She has a chance to defeat Byakuya only because of her obvious experience, speed and strength.

But she doesnt use a Soul Slayer.

In the end she would probably lose , by reasons stated above (Kageyoshi's Speed > Her. Kageyoshi's Shield > Her attacks. )

On the other hand , we dont know if she , in fact has one. She could just not be using it. This alters the whole fight. Imagine if her Soul Slayer had something similar , as Soi Fongs or something completely different lets say if it created a ''damage mirror''. Every cut that she would suffer , would be inflicted to the enemy. I just made that out myself , to emphasize the BIG difference because of her lack of sword.

P.S Just for the record , in the bridge she said she would have lost if she fought Byakuya , but she didnt have her Soul Slayer. No.Soul.Slayer. Her chances were rather thin. That's why she decided to run away , not because "Byakuya is teh shit11!11 gg , he is faster , stronger and has better hair!1!1 ". The advantage of an armed warrior , over an unarmed enemy is obvious.

[SenpaiRetsu]

Yoruichi doesnt use a Soul Slayer. She has a chance to defeat Byakuya only because of her obvious experience, speed and strength.
But she doesnt use a Soul Slayer.
In the end she would probably lose , by reasons stated above (Kageyoshi's Speed > Her. Kageyoshi's Shield > Her attacks. )
On the other hand , we dont know if she , in fact has one. She could just not be using it. This alters the whole fight. Imagine if her Soul Slayer had something similar , as Soi Fongs or something completely different lets say if it created a ''damage mirror''. Every cut that she would suffer , would be inflicted to the enemy. I just made that out myself , to emphasize the BIG difference because of her lack of sword.
P.S Just for the record , in the bridge she said she would have lost if she fought Byakuya , but she didnt have her Soul Slayer. No.Soul.Slayer. Her chances were rather thin. That's why she decided to run away , not because "Byakuya is teh shit11!11 gg , he is faster , stronger and has better hair!1!1 ". The advantage of an armed warrior , over an unarmed enemy is obvious.

I have to agree with him on this one. though i think two reasons, the fact that she is unarmed being the main reason. and the other huge reason is that she is way out of shape by her standards. but her in her prime with zanpakuto vs. current Byakuya WFTPWNS him

[Neko Bam]

Okay, I will assume the Yoruichi we're talking about is Yoruichi in her prime, when she was the captain of the special forces, and thus had a zanpakuto.

In the Soul Society Arc Yoruichi stated that Byakuya had never beaten her in Flash step tag, and after getting away she admitted that she was getting slower but she still was faster than Byakuya and able to keep up with Soi Fon. Just imagine her speed in her prime!

Furthermore she was able to defeat Soi Fon and her (haxx) Shikai without having a zanpakuto of her own. If we assume we're talking about the Yoruichi before she left SS, she
a) still had a zanpakuto
b) was stronger due to constant training and staying in her human form most of the time.

So if we're talking about Yoruichi before she left SS then it's a total curbstomb for Yoruichi.
If we're talking about Yoruichi during the Soul Society Arc I'd say she'd still win, but only by the edge of a knife.

[Undying]

Okay, I will assume the Yoruichi we're talking about is Yoruichi in her prime, when she was the captain of the special forces, and thus had a zanpakuto.

In the Soul Society Arc Yoruichi stated that Byakuya had never beaten her in Flash step tag, and after getting away she admitted that she was getting slower but she still was faster than Byakuya and able to keep up with Soi Fon. Just imagine her speed in her prime!

Furthermore she was able to defeat Soi Fon and her (haxx) Shikai without having a zanpakuto of her own. If we assume we're talking about the Yoruichi before she left SS, she
a) still had a zanpakuto
b) was stronger due to constant training and staying in her human form most of the time.

So if we're talking about Yoruichi before she left SS then it's a total curbstomb for Yoruichi.
If we're talking about Yoruichi during the Soul Society Arc I'd say she'd still win, but only by the edge of a knife.
Byakuya's hax > Soi Fon's hax.

Yoruichi can't outrun SKY, and there's no ability so far except Ichigo's that can defend against it properly.

[Neko Bam]

I don't really think that Ichigo, even in Bankai mode, could outrun the goddess of flash.

[diamondedge]

Yourichi herself made it pretty clear that she stands no chance against Byakuya, so can we drop this?

[Undying]

I beg to differ.

Ichigo's speed is bankai mode is by far the fastest we've seen thus far, ranging from insane attack speed (he had his sword in several places simultaneously).

He left around 7 solid after images and more blurry ones.

Yoruichi demonstrated nowhere near that speed, and I doubt she was so much impossibly faster in her prime.

Plus the fact remains that SKY is as fast as bankai Ichigo and is omnidirectional so Yoruichi can't block it.

Yourichi herself made it pretty clear that she stands no chance against Byakuya, so can we drop this?
The question raised was about Yoruichi in her prime, not in her current condition. Since the statement that she had no chance against Byakuya was made under her current limitations, Bamboocha assumed that she would stand a chance against Byakuya.

[diamondedge]

As for her prime - Byakuya didn't even demonstrate anything from his overall abilities on that bridge. While I have no doubts she has more experience than he does in terms of battle and that she had reserves, she was absent from SS for quite some time - in the meanwhile she had not seen Byakuya train or progress, she hadn't seen his current abilities at all, yet there was no hesitance in her statement.

[Rayster]

I beg to differ.

Ichigo's speed is bankai mode is by far the fastest we've seen thus far, ranging from insane attack speed (he had his sword in several places simultaneously).

He left around 7 solid after images and more blurry ones.

Yoruichi demonstrated nowhere near that speed, and I doubt she was so much impossibly faster in her prime.

Didn't she leave all those... about 50 or so, after images in her fight against Soifon when those guards came?

I'm pro-Byakuya on this fight, but that needed be to addressed. There's a reason Byakuya had to take her technique to fight an Espada.

[smach]

yoruichi's speed is greater than byakuya's n she's used reflexes close to bankai ichigo's before...remember her little cat fight with soi fon n the executive militia? she first destroys the entire squad w/o her stance dissappearing, n she exchanges punches with soifon that the normal eye can't even see.

to put it in simple terms, ichigo's bankai gives his entire body what shunko gives yoruichi's arms n legs...plus her speed. but her speed is arguably around his level, reflexes included.

my guess is she didn't wanna take byakuya on coz it was the wrong place n the wrong time. not only would they alert everyone else in SS, but it would also result in her not being able to train ichigo, thanks to all the chaos going around the place. she also didn't have the strength to carry everyone else n get them out of there...plus aizen wouldn't be found out...n it would've also been the end for chad, ishida, n orihime too.

there's also something i just realised when looking through the manga. zemeros was kinda meant to be a pun on what yoruichi used on byakuya at the bridge. remember the cutting scene? one second she's bleeding n falling to the ground with her arm cut off, but then she's resting on byakuya's arm, with no injuries whatsoever.


random cameltoe FTW! :Domo
http://img7.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000158/02.jpg

[Habanero]

random cameltoe FTW! :Domo
http://img7.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000158/02.jpg
You really gotta hone your skillz using the "spoiler" command mate :redbiggri

[Undying]

Didn't she leave all those... about 50 or so, after images in her fight against Soifon when those guards came?
I'm pro-Byakuya on this fight, but that needed be to addressed. There's a reason Byakuya had to take her technique to fight an Espada.
Not nearly as solid as Ichigo's.

Byakuya actually lost track of him, which isn't what happened with Yoruichi.

There's a reason she had to use technique to dodge his simple sword slash, you know.

And that's not nearly as omnidirectional as SKY :).

Yoruichi stands no chance, kthx.
yoruichi's speed is greater than byakuya's n she's used reflexes close to bankai ichigo's before...remember her little cat fight with soi fon n the executive militia? she first destroys the entire squad w/o her stance dissappearing, n she exchanges punches with soifon that the normal eye can't even see.
And then gets caught by Byakuya :cm:

Besides, since there was no one to see their fight, of course it wasn't drawn completely, since no one saw it.

And they only exchanged on kick, then Soi used her shikai and was around equal to Yoruichi.
to put it in simple terms, ichigo's bankai gives his entire body what shunko gives yoruichi's arms n legs...plus her speed. but her speed is arguably around his level, reflexes included.
Wrong. Shunko is an offensive technique, not extra speed. Yoruichi was around equal to Soifon, only she lacked the necessary offensive capabilities to stop Soi Fon's shikai.

Ichigo's bankai placed his speed way above Yoruichi.
my guess is she didn't wanna take byakuya on coz it was the wrong place n the wrong time. not only would they alert everyone else in SS, but it would also result in her not being able to train ichigo, thanks to all the chaos going around the place. she also didn't have the strength to carry everyone else n get them out of there...plus aizen wouldn't be found out...n it would've also been the end for chad, ishida, n orihime too.
No, she didn't take on Byakuya because he would've butchered her, and because if she by some miracle managed to land a blow on him, Ukitake would have butchered her.

Yoruichi stands no chance against Byakuya, kthx.
there's also something i just realised when looking through the manga. zemeros was kinda meant to be a pun on what yoruichi used on byakuya at the bridge. remember the cutting scene? one second she's bleeding n falling to the ground with her arm cut off, but then she's resting on byakuya's arm, with no injuries whatsoever.
Yeah, Byakuya used the technique to avoid Zomari :cm:.

Yoruichi needed that to dodge Byakuya's basic speed + sword slash.

SKY is way faster than Byakuya's base speed.

Hence Byakuya's attack is faster. A LOT faster. Fast enough to go around the speed of someone who leaves enough solid aftermimages after him to warrant proper speed.

Yoruichi is doomed.

[Neko Bam]

Didn't she leave all those... about 50 or so, after images in her fight against Soifon when those guards came?
I'm pro-Byakuya on this fight, but that needed be to addressed. There's a reason Byakuya had to take her technique to fight an Espada.
I remember Ichigo leaving multiple images of himself when fighting Byakuya, but I can't remember the scene you are talking about now. Could you please post a caption of it?

[smach]

THIS (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/154/14/) is what he's talkin about. n it should be pretty clear by now that even 11sec vizard ichigo can easily wtfpwn byakuya.
And then gets caught by Byakuya :cm:

Besides, since there was no one to see their fight, of course it wasn't drawn completely, since no one saw it.

And they only exchanged on kick, then Soi used her shikai and was around equal to Yoruichi.soi improved over the last 50yrs n is now around yoruichi's level. your proof against their speed is that their fight was just lazily drawn coz nobody was watching. if that's the case then ichigo's fight was also lazily drawn coz nobody saw it...same as yamamoto's...as well as bankai renji's...as well as zaraki's...as well as the first one vs ikkaku...etc. n yea...just like u said...ONE KICK IS ALL THEY EXCHANGED (http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-157-page-11.html)

oh n FYI soi fon's shikai doesn't increase speed; she proved to be close to yoruichi's speed, if not equal.

Wrong. Shunko is an offensive technique, not extra speed. Yoruichi was around equal to Soifon, only she lacked the necessary offensive capabilities to stop Soi Fon's shikai.

Ichigo's bankai placed his speed way above Yoruichi.then let me rephrase it into a more digestable format: yoruichi's got speed n shunko gives her body reinforcement to boost her attack n defense strength. ichigo's bankai gives him body reinforcement n yoruichi-level speed.

oh n we still haven't seen her sword...

No, she didn't take on Byakuya because he would've butchered her, and because if she by some miracle managed to land a blow on him, Ukitake would have butchered her.

Yoruichi stands no chance against Byakuya, kthx.ya...rlly looked like ukitake was ready to kill the ppl trying to save his squad member...i like this way of thinking...but didn't she explain to ichigo that she took him back to get stronger? nope...she was just mumbling bullshit coz we all saw ukitake pull out his sword n execute hanatarou n ganju. i think got ur point now, kthx.

Yeah, Byakuya used the technique to avoid Zomari :cm:.

Yoruichi needed that to dodge Byakuya's basic speed + sword slash.yoruichi with a body at least 135lb on her shoulder was able to use the cicada thing and still outpace byakuya. :cm:

SKY is way faster than Byakuya's base speed.

Hence Byakuya's attack is faster. A LOT faster. Fast enough to go around the speed of someone who leaves enough solid aftermimages after him to warrant proper speed.sky is about twice as fast as byakuya. ichigo is too...same goes for yoruichi...n judging from how she performed pre-shunko, soi fon as well...

Yoruichi is doomed.Yoruichi is NOT doomed.

[Undying]

soi improved over the last 50yrs n is now around yoruichi's level. your proof against their speed is that their fight was just lazily drawn coz nobody was watching. if that's the case then ichigo's fight was also lazily drawn coz nobody saw it...same as yamamoto's...as well as bankai renji's...as well as zaraki's...as well as the first one vs ikkaku...etc. n yea...just like u said...ONE KICK IS ALL THEY EXCHANGED
:whatevah: Congrats on proving yourself wrong, since the punches are visible, they weren't exactly "faster than the eye could see" as you described.

Secondly, Soi Fon improved over the last 100 years, not fifty.

Thirdly, the scan you posted shows Yoruichi past her prime, where she clearly admitted not having a chance against Byakuya. We are discussing a possible victory if Yoruichi was in her prime.

oh n FYI soi fon's shikai doesn't increase speed; she proved to be close to yoruichi's speed, if not equal.
I never said that. I said she was around equal to Yoruichi, not that her speed increased.

She was about equal because her offensive power allowed her to effectively damage Yoruichi, something she couldn't do before.
then let me rephrase it into a more digestable format: yoruichi's got speed n shunko gives her body reinforcement to boost her attack n defense strength. ichigo's bankai gives him body reinforcement n yoruichi-level speed.
Your point being? She still admitted that Byakuya was more powerful than her, Shunko or not. Her offensive powers are nowhere near Byakuya's with or without shunko.

And Ichigo's speed in bankai is far more than Yoruichi's, thank you very much. Byakuya actually lost sight of Ichigo, a feat that dear Yoruichi never accomplished without a specialized shunpo technique which Byakuya possesses.

oh n we still haven't seen her sword...
Yes we have, and it didn't do anything, because it's just an asauchi.
ya...rlly looked like ukitake was ready to kill the ppl trying to save his squad member...i like this way of thinking...but didn't she explain to ichigo that she took him back to get stronger? nope...she was just mumbling bullshit coz we all saw ukitake pull out his sword n execute hanatarou n ganju. i think got ur point now, kthx.
:facepalm:

Gee, someone here didn't read enough Bleach.

"No one on that bridge had a chance against Byakuya".

Have a nice day.
yoruichi with a body at least 135lb on her shoulder was able to use the cicada thing and still outpace byakuya
The weight one carries does not influence one's speed. Yachiru was as fast with Kenpachi on her, and she was going UP.

As for the technique, it's a situation similar to Byakuya VS Zomari, Zomari was technically faster, so Byakuya had to use a specializing technique.

And she still admitted she had no chance.
sky is about twice as fast as byakuya. ichigo is too...same goes for yoruichi...n judging from how she performed pre-shunko, soi fon as well...

Ichigo is TWICE as fast as Byakuya? Where are you bringing that info from? I must've missed a manga scan somewhere where Ichigo stated his bankai only doubled his speed, when the power increase is around 5 times... yeah, great math there.

And Yoruichi still admitted she had no chance, pre-shunko or after shunko.
Yoruichi is NOT doomed.
"No one on that bridge had a chance against Byakuya".

Oh yeah... that means Ukitake didn't have a chance either...

Yoruichi is doomed in a fight against Byakuya. Have a nice day.

[smach]

:whatevah: Congrats on proving yourself wrong, since the punches are visible, they weren't exactly "faster than the eye could see" as you described.

Secondly, Soi Fon improved over the last 100 years, not fifty.uh, they were made "visible" to show that they're equal in speed, both shunpo n reflexes. notice how they blocked each other's attacks n only came out with one hit? it's just like ichigo vs SKY.

Thirdly, the scan you posted shows Yoruichi past her prime, where she clearly admitted not having a chance against Byakuya. We are discussing a possible victory if Yoruichi was in her prime.prime...as in...her best..? so the ownage vs soi fon doesn't count..? exactly what do u mean by prime?

I never said that. I said she was around equal to Yoruichi, not that her speed increased.

She was about equal because her offensive power allowed her to effectively damage Yoruichi, something she couldn't do before.yup. her little cat fight with yoruichi shows they're generally equal in terms of speed (shunpo+reflexes) and her shikai gave her a temporary upper hand thanks to its simple-yet-very-effective technique of two-hit kills.

Your point being? She still admitted that Byakuya was more powerful than her, Shunko or not. Her offensive powers are nowhere near Byakuya's with or without shunko.

And Ichigo's speed in bankai is far more than Yoruichi's, thank you very much. Byakuya actually lost sight of Ichigo, a feat that dear Yoruichi never accomplished without a specialized shunpo technique which Byakuya possesses.yea...swinging a sword then realising she's on the other side of the bridge clearly shows that he didn't lose sight of her. oh, plus both ichigo n yoruichi weren't even tryin to fight...unlike byakuya's "i'll kill u all coz u don't follow the rulez" determination...

Yes we have, and it didn't do anything, because it's just an asauchi.seems my info's gotten a little rusty...when was that?

:facepalm:

Gee, someone here didn't read enough Bleach.

"No one on that bridge had a chance against Byakuya".

Have a nice day.

The weight one carries does not influence one's speed. Yachiru was as fast with Kenpachi on her, and she was going UP.

As for the technique, it's a situation similar to Byakuya VS Zomari, Zomari was technically faster, so Byakuya had to use a specializing technique.

And she still admitted she had no chance.


Ichigo is TWICE as fast as Byakuya? Where are you bringing that info from? I must've missed a manga scan somewhere where Ichigo stated his bankai only doubled his speed, when the power increase is around 5 times... yeah, great math there.

And Yoruichi still admitted she had no chance, pre-shunko or after shunko.

"No one on that bridge had a chance against Byakuya".

Oh yeah... that means Ukitake didn't have a chance either...

Yoruichi is doomed in a fight against Byakuya. Have a nice day."No one at the bridge..." as in none of you, as in ichigo, hanatarou, or rukia...we can ignore ganju coz he was already dead. yoruichi could only carry one person n still outpace byakuya. she had three options: rukia, hanatarou, or ichigo. she chose ichigo coz not only would ukitake not let the others die, but ichigo's the only one who had the potential to kick byakuya's ass if given the right training.

yachiru wasn't running away from anyone either, amirite? furthermore, unless you can prove she was trying to outpace someone like byakuya...i don't see how she fits into the topic at hand...especially when yoruichi already said 1 person is her max while still outpacing byakuya.

about ichigo's speed: srry, here's what i meant to say:
sky with hands is about twice as fast as sky without hands. ichigo is too...same goes for yoruichi...n judging from how she performed pre-shunko, soi fon as well...

[Undying]

uh, they were made "visible" to show that they're equal in speed, both shunpo n reflexes. notice how they blocked each other's attacks n only came out with one hit? it's just like ichigo vs SKY.
roflcopter

No shit. Linear attacks = omnidirectional attack.

Yeah, you win the logicless award.

prime...as in...her best..? so the ownage vs soi fon doesn't count..? exactly what do u mean by prime?
Prime = one hundred years ago.

And she never owned Soi Fon, they were roughly equal. In fact, Soi Fon was the better because she actually has shikai and bankai.
seems my info's gotten a little rusty...when was that?
Flashback, her telling about herself and Urahara, she had a sword on her hip. Also, Soi Fon's sword is actually Yoruichi's, since the weapon passes from one head of the Secret Ops to the next.

And since one cannot transfer their shikai to someone else (being unique to the soul), the shikai is entirely Soi Fon's.

Lastly, Yoruichi never used anything the like of shikai at any time (even during the battle with Soi Fon, where such a weapon would have probably evened the odds), and since a shiaki can be reproduced from the owner's soul, the logical conclusion would be that she doesn't have one.
"No one at the bridge..." as in none of you, as in ichigo, hanatarou, or rukia...we can ignore ganju coz he was already dead. yoruichi could only carry one person n still outpace byakuya. she had three options: rukia, hanatarou, or ichigo. she chose ichigo coz not only would ukitake not let the others die, but ichigo's the only one who had the potential to kick byakuya's ass if given the right training.
Yoruichi was on the bridge, hence the statement "no one on that bridge" refers to her as well.

Also, you need to reread that chapter, Yoruichi never actually outpaced Byakuya, he caught her, forcing her to use a specializing technique. Also, SKY is way faster than Byakuya's own speed, thus making her ability to barely dodge him invalid.

When she ran away, while she claims she could have outran Byakuya (possible), I doubt it would have been so easy had he chose to actually chase her, which he didn't.
yachiru wasn't running away from anyone either, amirite? furthermore, unless you can prove she was trying to outpace someone like byakuya...i don't see how she fits into the topic at hand...especially when yoruichi already said 1 person is her max while still outpacing byakuya.
Her max while escaping, since taking two would've put her in the path of Byakuya. Also, seeing as Byakuya didn't actually chase her, we cannot know whether she would have been able to really outpace him, and fighting is not the same as running, especially when dealing with an omnidirectional attack of that magnitude.

And I brought Yachiru as an example to show that the weight one carries does not influence one's speed in Bleach, not as a speed comparison, do read what I write. Yachiru was using her regular speed while dragging Kenpachi, who weight more than Ichigo. Now, unless Yachiru is stronger than Yoruichi, this shows that the weight is irrelevant.

about ichigo's speed: srry, here's what i meant to say:
sky with hands is about twice as fast as sky without hands. ichigo is too...same goes for yoruichi...n judging from how she performed pre-shunko, soi fon as well...
Excuse me? SKY with hands > Ichigo's speed (they could circumvent around him to attack from different sides, hence they had the speed to keep up with him).

Ichigo's speed > Yoruichi speed. Also, Base SKY is plenty fast enough to catch Yoruichi, unless you claim that Yoruichi's speed is so great Byakuya would lose sight of her (never happened).

And Shunko does not increase one's speed.

Also, let's assume that Yoruichi tries to use Shunko and her "amazing punching speed" to deflect SKY. She has nowhere near the attack speed required to cause an omnidirectional attack in all sides simultaneously. If she had that kind of speed, Soi Fon would have been owned, and hard.

I don't think you get what it takes to deflect SKY's attack, you need to have your weapon everywhere at once. Think of it as having over a hundred swords all around you, all at once. No one, thus far, demonstrated this level of attack speed, least of all Yoruichi (who specializes in Shunpo anyway, which is movement speed and not attack speed).

Even if Yoruichi's shunko can disperse those petals she's hitting (and it cannot, unless you claim that Shunko is more powerful than Getsuga Tenshou, and I mean LOADS more powerful), she cannot hit all of the petals, or even enough to form any serious defense. Her back is exposed, as is her legs and head. Since she cannot punch in all directions at once, she cannot deflect SKY, and hence, stands no chance.

[smach]

roflcopter

No shit. Linear attacks = omnidirectional attack.

Yeah, you win the logicless award.ouch...that one rlly hurt! :sad

ichigo left dozens of after-images while circling byakuya; yoruichi defeated a whole militia squad without her previous posture changing one bit. unless he had already started getting weaker, ichigo should've been able to do the same thing he did the first time...like kill byakuya in one strike before the petals actually got to him. byakuya had nothing to defend with, so why would yoruichi have a problem doing the same? it's pretty clear that both ichigo n yoruichi weren't fighting with their full strength while their opponents were all about executing those who don't follow the rules. even one hit using shunko would be disastrous on byakuya, let alone soi fon...who could actually reduce the damage by using her own.

Prime = one hundred years ago.

And she never owned Soi Fon, they were roughly equal. In fact, Soi Fon was the better because she actually has shikai and bankai.she only used her shunko to nullify soifon's...n we've seen how strong her physical strength is when she kicked yami's ass barehanded.

Flashback, her telling about herself and Urahara, she had a sword on her hip. Also, Soi Fon's sword is actually Yoruichi's, since the weapon passes from one head of the Secret Ops to the next.

And since one cannot transfer their shikai to someone else (being unique to the soul), the shikai is entirely Soi Fon's.

Lastly, Yoruichi never used anything the like of shikai at any time (even during the battle with Soi Fon, where such a weapon would have probably evened the odds), and since a shiaki can be reproduced from the owner's soul, the logical conclusion would be that she doesn't have one.the flashback is from back-in-the-day when they had just joined their squads. urahara also had one back-in-the-day instead of the walking cane he carries around nowadays.

the sword of the special ops commanding officer is not passed down the line. it would be illogical if there was a special sword for the officer coz it would mean carrying two at all times. the fact that soi fon uses the sword to release her shikai should be more than enough proof of that. plus there's also the fact that yoruichi's from the "four great noble houses" that are known for having strong people in them.

yoruichi wasn't trying to kill soi fon; shunko would've been more than enough if her goal was to destroy her, let alone harm her in any way.

Yoruichi was on the bridge, hence the statement "no one on that bridge" refers to her as well.it's the same as when ulquiorra n yami first went to rukongai. there was confusion as to whether ulquiorra meant they both wouldn't stand a chance or only yami wouldn't. the official dub translated it as "none of you..." n i doubt they get paid for making sloppy translations. but just to be sure, i'll try to check with a couple other sources n let u know what they say.

but regardless, yoruichi's objective was to bring ichigo back n train him, not attempt to rescue everyone. fighting there would've brought more attention n i doubt anyone besides VL's can handle more than one captain at a time. it was either go into hiding n increase ur strength in numbers, or pray you somehow defeat the gotei 13 by yourself.

Also, you need to reread that chapter, Yoruichi never actually outpaced Byakuya, he caught her, forcing her to use a specializing technique. Also, SKY is way faster than Byakuya's own speed, thus making her ability to barely dodge him invalid.

When she ran away, while she claims she could have outran Byakuya (possible), I doubt it would have been so easy had he chose to actually chase her, which he didn't.

Her max while escaping, since taking two would've put her in the path of Byakuya. Also, seeing as Byakuya didn't actually chase her, we cannot know whether she would have been able to really outpace him, and fighting is not the same as running, especially when dealing with an omnidirectional attack of that magnitude.yoruichi's words are more than enough proof that capacity/weight is a factor. doubting her words is like doubting ulquiorra when he told yoruichi that he would have the upper hand, especially when they're trying to defend chad, ichigo, n orihime. the fact that they didn't reply means they got the point; same goes for byakuya. so until kubo shows us that byakuya can actually catch up...we're obliged to stick to what's been said n showed so far, which is that yoruichi is beyond byakuya's speed.

And I brought Yachiru as an example to show that the weight one carries does not influence one's speed in Bleach, not as a speed comparison, do read what I write. Yachiru was using her regular speed while dragging Kenpachi, who weight more than Ichigo. Now, unless Yachiru is stronger than Yoruichi, this shows that the weight is irrelevant.there's no proof whatsoever that yachiru was using her fastest speed. her being able to carry zaraki shows that she's stronger than what her body implies, not that shunpo is immune to weight. there's also nothing to compare with in terms of her speed n she doesn't make any comment regarding her speed while carrying zaraki compared to when she's not.

but the bottom line is still that speed will always go down if more weight is added. it's one of those real-life rules that's also accepted n applied in bleach. until someone proves or states otherwise, we can't say yoruichi was at her fastest or that byakuya can catch up until we see it actually happen.

Excuse me? SKY with hands > Ichigo's speed (they could circumvent around him to attack from different sides, hence they had the speed to keep up with him).ichigo wasn't going at his fastest n fatigue was already setting in. that's why he's even more stunned when byakuya shifts to senkei.

Ichigo's speed > Yoruichi speed. Also, Base SKY is plenty fast enough to catch Yoruichi, unless you claim that Yoruichi's speed is so great Byakuya would lose sight of her (never happened).byakuya lost track of yoruichi, who was carrying ichigo, and wasn't even attacking. byakuya then gets up close n swings but yoruichi uses cicada n rests on his arm, just to add insult to injury. she then tells him he can keep chasing on if he wants, to which he shuts up quits trying.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/118/14/

And Shunko does not increase one's speed.i think this is what i said: ichigo's bankai = shunko + yoruichi's speed

Also, let's assume that Yoruichi tries to use Shunko and her "amazing punching speed" to deflect SKY. She has nowhere near the attack speed required to cause an omnidirectional attack in all sides simultaneously. If she had that kind of speed, Soi Fon would have been owned, and hard.was ichigo/yoruichi going all out on byakuya/soi fon? nope.
was byaukya/soi fon going all out on ichigo/yoruichi? yup

I don't think you get what it takes to deflect SKY's attack, you need to have your weapon everywhere at once. Think of it as having over a hundred swords all around you, all at once. No one, thus far, demonstrated this level of attack speed, least of all Yoruichi (who specializes in Shunpo anyway, which is movement speed and not attack speed).ichigo has, n his speed is comparable to yoruichi's. the only thing keeping yoruichi from doing so it ATM is we don't know what her soul slayer looks like, meaning we can't just expect her sword to be body-length like ichigo's. but her shunko was used to absorb a massive attack from soi fon, so i bet she can fire something stronger.

Even if Yoruichi's shunko can disperse those petals she's hitting (and it cannot, unless you claim that Shunko is more powerful than Getsuga Tenshou, and I mean LOADS more powerful), she cannot hit all of the petals, or even enough to form any serious defense. Her back is exposed, as is her legs and head. Since she cannot punch in all directions at once, she cannot deflect SKY, and hence, stands no chance.shunko n GT work the same way: the user puts however much power they want into the attack n lets it loose. if used with the intent to cause damage or kill (ie byakuya's n soi fon's determination) they will result in stronger attacks, making them able to penetrate byakuya's petals n hit him. n if they don't, ichigo/yoruichi can still get behind him n finish him off in one attack, using the opening gained from byakuya blocking.

[Undying]

ichigo left dozens of after-images while circling byakuya; yoruichi defeated a whole militia squad without her previous posture changing one bit. unless he had already started getting weaker, ichigo should've been able to do the same thing he did the first time...like kill byakuya in one strike before the petals actually got to him. byakuya had nothing to defend with, so why would yoruichi have a problem doing the same? it's pretty clear that both ichigo n yoruichi weren't fighting with their full strength while their opponents were all about executing those who don't follow the rules. even one hit using shunko would be disastrous on byakuya, let alone soi fon...who could actually reduce the damage by using her own.
Firstly, Byakuya lost sight of Ichigo. That for one shows just how insanely fast is Ichigo, since Byakuya hardly ever loses sight of anyone. Secondly, Yoruichi may be able to land a single blow on Byakuya. Maybe. One attack isn't going to kill Byakuya unless it's a stab to the neck, and since Yoruichi isn't as fast as bankai Ichigo, Byakuya won't lose sight of her and be able to dodge. Thirdly, Yoruichi may have left dozens of afterimages fighting a bunch of low-level weaklings, but notice how she wasn't quite as successful with Soi Fon? That's because their speeds are similar. Ichigo was making afterimages fighting Byakuya, who while possibly not as fast as Soi Fon, is still insanely fast. For someone to confuse him to this level requires insane speeds, which Yoruichi doesn't possess.

Thirdly and lastly, Byakuya attacked Ichigo with a linear attack, not an omnidirectional one. Had Byakuya used an omnidirectional attack, Ichigo would not be able to get to him. Yoruichi both lacks the speed to make Byakuya lose sight of her, and she lacks the offensive capabilities to stop SKY.

she only used her shunko to nullify soifon's...n we've seen how strong her physical strength is when she kicked yami's ass barehanded.
And got a broken arm and a leg, thx. Also as I said, maybe her Shunko can disperse a small amount of SKY. That is, if her Shunko grants her more power than a Getsuga Tenshou.

She could never defend against the whole of it.

And you are still claiming that a linear attack could beat an omnidirectional one. That's so logical.
the flashback is from back-in-the-day when they had just joined their squads. urahara also had one back-in-the-day instead of the walking cane he carries around nowadays.
And now she doesn't have a sword. Why?

Because she never had it. A Shikai can be reproduced from the owner's soul, so if she could use it, she'd pull it out - why use an unmastered technique if she can use a more mastered one?
the sword of the special ops commanding officer is not passed down the line. it would be illogical if there was a special sword for the officer coz it would mean carrying two at all times.
No, it would simply show a symbol. Carrying two swords is not illogical, it's simply symbolic, much like another haori. However after rechecking, apparently this was an anime reference I mistook for a manga reference, so the sword is indeed Soi Fon's.
the fact that soi fon uses the sword to release her shikai should be more than enough proof of that. plus there's also the fact that yoruichi's from the "four great noble houses" that are known for having strong people in them.
So what? "Reiatsu more than others" does not mean that they must have a zanpakto, or shikai and bankai.

Kaien only had shikai and was VC level, and he was from the Five Great Noble Houses. Also, Hitsugaya isn't a noble, yet he's more powerful than most nobles shown so far (with the exception of Yoruichi, Soi Fon, and Byakuya).

yoruichi wasn't trying to kill soi fon; shunko would've been more than enough if her goal was to destroy her, let alone harm her in any way.
Rofl.

Soi Fon's speed is equal to hers.

Her shikai allows her to kill her if she hits her one more time. And she still hasn't shown her bankai.

And you're saying that Shunko would be enough? Please... Soi Fon was dominating the fight entirely. The only reason why Yoruichi didn't die was because Soi Fon wasn't really trying to kill her.
yoruichi's words are more than enough proof that capacity/weight is a factor. doubting her words is like doubting ulquiorra when he told yoruichi that he would have the upper hand, especially when they're trying to defend chad, ichigo, n orihime. the fact that they didn't reply means they got the point; same goes for byakuya. so until kubo shows us that byakuya can actually catch up...we're obliged to stick to what's been said n showed so far, which is that yoruichi is beyond byakuya's speed.
All right, let's say that weight does influence speed in Bleach (bull, Yachiru was as fast as always carrying Kenpachi, Kenpachi is heavier, hence weight does not influence speed). However, running is not the same as fighting. Yoruichi was able to outpace Soi Fon's speed while running away, but Soi Fon was more than a match when they were fighting. Yoruichi's speed is hardly much faster than Byakuya's movements, let alone his attack speed.

Even if she has the speed to run away from Byakuya, she doesn't move nearly as fast as you are trying to pass here, and she still can't defend against an omnidirectional attack.
there's no proof whatsoever that yachiru was using her fastest speed. her being able to carry zaraki shows that she's stronger than what her body implies, not that shunpo is immune to weight. there's also nothing to compare with in terms of her speed n she doesn't make any comment regarding her speed while carrying zaraki compared to when she's not.
She was every bit as fast with Zaraki on her as she was without (see other speed demonstrations).

And she wasn't even using shunpo, which is a specializing speed technique (she was clearly drawn jumping up). If regular speed is immune to weight, then so is Shunpo.
but the bottom line is still that speed will always go down if more weight is added. it's one of those real-life rules that's also accepted n applied in bleach. until someone proves or states otherwise, we can't say yoruichi was at her fastest or that byakuya can catch up until we see it actually happen.
Ok, Byakuya can't capture Yoruichi while she's running away. Neither could Soi Fon, who was more than equal to Yoruichi in speed.

Running away is not the same as fighting. Not to mention that Yoruichi doesn't have the speed to outpace SKY.

And last but not least, "no one on that that bridge had a chance against Byakuya". Yoruichi admitted not being able to beat Byakuya by her own mouth.
ichigo wasn't going at his fastest n fatigue was already setting in. that's why he's even more stunned when byakuya shifts to senkei.
Ichigo used his faster to escape (he claims he could go faster and does) and SKY caught him. Fatigue set in when Byakuya switched to Senkei, that's when Ichigo's speed started dropping and he thought Byakuya got faster.

Fact remains that SKY movement speed > Ichigo movement speed.
byakuya lost track of yoruichi, who was carrying ichigo, and wasn't even attacking. byakuya then gets up close n swings but yoruichi uses cicada n rests on his arm, just to add insult to injury. she then tells him he can keep chasing on if he wants, to which he shuts up quits trying.
In other words, Byakuya is so fast, Yoruichi needs a specialized technique just to dodge his regular speed. SKY's speed is more than Byakuya's own, and Yoruichi can't dodge an omnidirectional attack.
i think this is what i said: ichigo's bankai = shunko + yoruichi's speed
Are you saying that Yoruichi has as much power as bankai? Woah there, fanboy. Hold your horses. Bankai Ichigo would decimate Yoruichi, since bankai > sealed unless someone has the one and only weakness to it, which Yoruichi doesn't She does not have the power or the speed to stop SKY's attack.

And "no one on that bridge had a chance against Byakuya". She admitted it.
was ichigo/yoruichi going all out on byakuya/soi fon? nope.
was byaukya/soi fon going all out on ichigo/yoruichi? yup
Was Yoruihci being caught repeatedly with deadly hits? Yup. You're saying she didn't run away at full speed, because she was about to get killed?

Yeah, I see the logic there.

Was Ichigo running his fastest when trying to avoid SKY? Yup

Did SKY catch him? Yup.

Pwnt.
ichigo has, n his speed is comparable to yoruichi's. the only thing keeping yoruichi from doing so it ATM is we don't know what her soul slayer looks like, meaning we can't just expect her sword to be body-length like ichigo's. but her shunko was used to absorb a massive attack from soi fon, so i bet she can fire something stronger.
Roflcopter. No shit, you're comparing Ichigo's ATTACK SPEED to Yoruichi, who is known for specializing in movement techniques.

I give you the logicless awardx2.

Now then.

Ichigo's attack speed is by far greater than Yoruichi's. She has nowhere near the attack speed and attack power to effectively defend against SKY. The speeds are nowhere comparable, Ichigo is by far faster than Yoruichi.
shunko n GT work the same way: the user puts however much power they want into the attack n lets it loose. if used with the intent to cause damage or kill (ie byakuya's n soi fon's determination) they will result in stronger attacks, making them able to penetrate byakuya's petals n hit him. n if they don't, ichigo/yoruichi can still get behind him n finish him off in one attack, using the opening gained from byakuya blocking.
Nope, wrong.

GT works in the following way: Zangetsu uses Ichigo's reiatsu and forms a crescent shaped blade which has more than Ichigo's regular cutting power in it. He explained it quite clearly.

Shunko is Kido (you know, what Byakuya uses with exceptional mastery?) added on top of punches to maximize their efficiency.

There is nothing alike in those two techniques. And Shunko has nowhere near the destructive power that GT demonstrated and that SKY effortlessly blocked.

Also, reiatsu wise, Byakuya is by far superior to Yoruichi.

Reiatsu + omnidirectional attack make him more than powerful enough to wtfpwn her. Her movement speed won't save her, she can run, but she can't fight.

[diamondedge]

I won't quote everything but oh boy smarch you've gone low lately.

Yourichi with Ichigo on her arms said "I can only carry one person on my back in order to escape Byakuya for CERTAIN."

If Byakuya was only as fast as she gave him credit for, she wouldn't have to use that technique she taught Bykauya too in order to escape him from the bridge.

So, she is that tiny bit faster than him, but to think she'd be able to do anything to SKY even with her shunko (with which she might even kill herself as she didn't master it yet - she admitted herself) or even AVOID it, that's just crazy.

It's as Undying said, she stands no chance.

[SenpaiRetsu]

GT>>>>>>>>>>>shunko destructive force, GG

[smach]

why thank u very much NisamaPwns for your remarkable contribution to the debate. i will make sure to keep your thoughts in mind whenever i'm posting here coz u clearly provide the most insight compared to dia n Undy.

@Undy: i'm still checking around to see how others translate the scene so i'll get back at u later n tell u what they say. 'mkay?

I won't quote everything but oh boy smarch you've gone low lately.n why's that? coz i believe byakuya lost fairly to ichigo? coz i believe ichigo's better than byakuya? or is it coz i believe repeated attacks by small blades won't have any effect on 6th n above? but hey, i appoligise for not meeting your standards...i'll try do my best next time.

Yourichi with Ichigo on her arms said "I can only carry one person on my back in order to escape Byakuya for CERTAIN."the way u said that makes it sound like she actually needs one person on her back to outpace byakuya.

If Byakuya was only as fast as she gave him credit for, she wouldn't have to use that technique she taught Bykauya too in order to escape him from the bridge.n it's pretty clear that even prior to that she was still toying with byakuya. byakuya got pissed coz he actually lost sight of her so he stepped up his game n got faster. yoruichi countered by using cicada. n then dared him to chase after her.

So, she is that tiny bit faster than him, but to think she'd be able to do anything to SKY even with her shunko (with which she might even kill herself as she didn't master it yet - she admitted herself) or even AVOID it, that's just crazy.yoruichi: do you understand now...why i never showed this technique to you? it's because this technique is way too dangerous.

how that translates to "i might even kill myself coz i haven't mastered it yet" is beyond me. we saw how destructive the ability is. just initiating it alone carved a couple feet into the ground n incinerated everything in sight. soi fon herself only survived coz the attack she fired managed to keep her save.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/159/01/

it's the same reason why urahara told renji to train chad instead.

[diamondedge]

the way u said that makes it sound like she actually needs one person on her back to outpace byakuya.
Of course that's not what I meant.

It was meant "even if I got someone on my back I should have no problems escaping him."

n it's pretty clear that even prior to that she was still toying with byakuya. byakuya got pissed coz he actually lost sight of her so he stepped up his game n got faster. yoruichi countered by using cicada. n then dared him to chase after her.
Would you be so kind and provide me the scan where Byakuya lost sight of her before she used cicada?

yoruichi: do you understand now...why i never showed this technique to you? it's because this technique is way too dangerous.

how that translates to "i might even kill myself coz i haven't mastered it yet" is beyond me.

Well DUH, but did you see what the spirit force for shunko does? It completely ripped apart her outfit, meaning it possibly could harm her too if it got out of control.

Honestly, I see no other reason for her so say technique is dangerous other than it might hurt her in the process.

[Undying]

@Undy: i'm still checking around to see how others translate the scene so i'll get back at u later n tell u what they say. 'mkay?
Does it matter?

Yoruichi does not have the needed attack speed to effectively defend against SKY, and she does not have the movement speed to outpace it.

Even if she didn't outright admit it, I'd like a scan where Yoruichi's attack speed was enough to cause her to have an omnidirectional attack.

I'd also like a scan where it's proven that Kido has more power than GT.

Also, if Kido - Shunko is Kido added on top of punch for more offensive power of each punch - is more powerful than GT, then Byakuya is much more powerful than before, because Byakuya wields Kido and his abilities are flawless, hence his Kido is flawless and hence his Kido is powerful. Since his Kido is powerful and Kido has more power than GT, Byakuya's Kido has more power than GT.

And since his bankai has more power than Kido, being his ultimate offensive technique, you've just proven that Byakuya is the most powerful character in Bleach. GG.

[smach]

Of course that's not what I meant.

It was meant "even if I got someone on my back I should have no problems escaping him."so u also believe carrying someone doesn't affect ur speed..?

Would you be so kind and provide me the scan where Byakuya lost sight of her before she used cicada?byakuya hates her boobs n wants to cut them off (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/118/13/)
yoruichi ends up behind him so he swings at her (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/118/13/)
he's shocked n awed that she's somehow on the other side of the bridge (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/118/15/)
he steps up his game n gets beside her (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/118/16/)
her arm is chopped off n she faints (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/118/17/)
he's in shock n awe again that she smiles n farts on his arm (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/118/18/)
she dares him to follow (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/118/19/)
he shuts up n quits trying (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/119/01/)

Well DUH, but did you see what the spirit force for shunko does? It completely ripped apart her outfit, meaning it possibly could harm her too if it got out of control.she's practiced with it before so she knows how to utilize it better than ichigo does his bankai so i doubt her bones will start cracking or she'll lose strength from using it either.

Honestly, I see no other reason for her so say technique is dangerous other than it might hurt her in the process.it's the same reason urahara didn't want to train chad w/his bankai; it's a technique that's too dangerous to be used for training purposes.

Does it matter?

Yoruichi does not have the needed attack speed to effectively defend against SKY, and she does not have the movement speed to outpace it.forcing byakuya to defend himself from a shunko attack should be enough to keep the petals from getting to her. if ichigo wasn't just set on proving byakuya wrong about his speed then i bet firing a GT would've given him the opening he needs to finish byakuya in one strike. plus bankai GTs also don't just disipate on impact.

Even if she didn't outright admit it, I'd like a scan where Yoruichi's attack speed was enough to cause her to have an omnidirectional attack.as in...hit many targets at once? or hit one target from different directions..? she instatly took out an entire batle-trained shunpo-capable militia that was scattered around so i doubt circling byakuya n hitting him from different directions will be much of a obstacle for her.

I'd also like a scan where it's proven that Kido has more power than GT.wow...again with this. it's a fact that ichigo didn't use use a strong GT on the petals. it's also a fact that yoruichi never used her full strength with shunko. she only nullified soi fon's strongest charge - which was rlly big itself (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/159/16/) - by neutralizing it like urahara did with yami's ceros. n the fact that soi fon has far less knowledge of it compared to yoruichi (meaning she can't utilize it as well) just goes to show that perfecting shunko is a feat in itself.

Also, if Kido - Shunko is Kido added on top of punch for more offensive power of each punch - is more powerful than GT, then Byakuya is much more powerful than before, because Byakuya wields Kido and his abilities are flawless, hence his Kido is flawless and hence his Kido is powerful. Since his Kido is powerful and Kido has more power than GT, Byakuya's Kido has more power than GT.

And since his bankai has more power than Kido, being his ultimate offensive technique, you've just proven that Byakuya is the most powerful character in Bleach. GG.wow...seems like some ppl still believe ichigo always puts the same amount of reiatsu into all his attacks. if that were the case then the same attack that first hit grimjow is the same one that got blocked by the petals coz they're all the same as the one that destroyed hakuteiken.

[Undying]

forcing byakuya to defend himself from a shunko attack should be enough to keep the petals from getting to her. if ichigo wasn't just set on proving byakuya wrong about his speed then i bet firing a GT would've given him the opening he needs to finish byakuya in one strike. plus bankai GTs also don't just disipate on impact.
:facepalm:

Shunko gives Yoruichi as much attack power as Bankai Getsuga Tenshou?

Ok fanboy, hold your horses. First, Ichigo could not yet fire GTs in bankai. Second, Shunko has more power than GT in bankai? Shunko has demonstrated nowhere near the destructive power of shikai GT, and you've upped the game to bankai.

SKY effortlessly blocked shikai GT, which has more power than Shunko. That's one argument down.

Also, "defending against a Shunko punch"? Lolwut? She can't disperse the petals, they are faster than her movement or attack speed, and the instant she touches them Byakuya has the opening he needs to wrap her in an omnidirectional sphere, AKA Goukei.

Seriously, your arguments have reached a new level of impossible logic. Shunko is now somehow the equal of a bankai GT. Right.
as in...hit many targets at once? or hit one target from different directions..? she instatly took out an entire batle-trained shunpo-capable militia that was scattered around so i doubt circling byakuya n hitting him from different directions will be much of a obstacle for her.
Sigh... Omnidirectional attack = hitting everywhere simultaneously. Yoruihci never demonstrated this kind of attack speed. You really need to look closer at SKY, because you have no idea what you are talking about.

Secondly, the afterimages that Yoruichi left were nowhere near as solid as Ichigo's. In fact, she was more "blinking" as the anime chose to draw it, while Ichigo was leaving nearly solid afterimages.

I think you need an explanation on what omnidirectional means. It means from every direction. Every direction. Full 360 degrees circle from ALL angles. Can your precious Yoruichi attack in all directions at once? Nope. You confused her shunpo speed (which isn't that impressive compared to Ichigo, whose speed is by far greater than hers), which is her movement speed, with her attack speed, which is extremely low.

And since she lacks both attack speed, attack power, and movement speed to outdo SKY in a fight, she stands no chance.
wow...again with this. it's a fact that ichigo didn't use use a strong GT on the petals. it's also a fact that yoruichi never used her full strength with shunko. she only nullified soi fon's strongest charge - which was rlly big itself - by neutralizing it like urahara did with yami's ceros. n the fact that soi fon has far less knowledge of it compared to yoruichi (meaning she can't utilize it as well) just goes to show that perfecting shunko is a feat in itself.
Ichigo didn't fire a full-power GT at the petals? Srsly? He wasn't trying his hardest? Scan plz.

Byakuya's Kido which neutralized Renji's bankai made a pretty big flash too, are you claiming it has more destructive power than Ichigo's GT? Because I have no problem with that, not Byakuya's Kido is more powerful than GT.

GT (which has more power than Ichigo's regular slashes, which in turn caused a massive crater when clashing with Zaraki) demonstrated offensive power enough to slice a mountain easily. Shunko barely made a crater.

You're arguing on superthin ice here, I suggest stopping before you prove you just don't read Bleach.
wow...seems like some ppl still believe ichigo always puts the same amount of reiatsu into all his attacks. if that were the case then the same attack that first hit grimjow is the same one that got blocked by the petals coz they're all the same as the one that destroyed hakuteiken.
:facepalm: You're comparing two different fights here. Fo shizzle, Ichigo didn't fire a maximum power GT at the petals. He was trying to get himself killed by firing a half-assed attack at a bankai.

Yeah, I adore your way of thinking. Ichigo wasn't trying to destroy SKY with his attack, he was just firing his weakest attack, because obviously his weakest attack would beat a bankai, and Ichigo knows it.

Also, are you saying that a Getsuga fired at Senbonzakura shikai was more powerful than the one fired at SKY? Seriously? Ichigo must've figured that bankai makes Byakuya weaker, so he should use his weakest possible attack, since firing his maximum at shikai was obviously more obvious.

By your own logic, Ichigo fired a maximum powered GT at Byakuya's shikai, and then used LESS power at Byakuya's bankai.

Either way, maximum GT (according to you, the one that was fired at Byakuya's shikai) demonstrated more destructive power than shuko, since the GT actually caused a large crater and "sliced" the mountain, while Shunko made a big flash and a lot of wind.

Either way, demonstrated attack power is massively different. Even if we follow your "logic"and claim that Ichigo fired a less-powerful GT at Byakuya's shikai than the one he fired at SKY, the demonstrated destructive power is on a whole different scale than Shunko (which didn't even make a proper crater, just a few big flashes and a small hole in the ground, a feat Ichigo surpassed when he fought Kenpachi, and at the time he was weaker than when fighting Byakuya).

SKY effortlessly blocked a GT. That's fact. If it effortlessly blocked GT, it will effortlessly block Shunko, which demonstrated a far lower destructive force (combined from Yoruichi's blocking of Soi Fon and Soi Fon's actual attack).

In other, simpler words, Yoruichi doesn't stand a chance, and your claims are outright ridiculous. Do yourself a favor and stop wasting my time.

[diamondedge]

so u also believe carrying someone doesn't affect ur speed..?
If it didn't Yourichi wouldn't have made that statement. Whree the fak did I ever say it doesn't?

My point is, that she wouldn't have to resort to cicacda after she was really confident about easily escaping him even with someone on her back.

byakuya hates her boobs n wants to cut them off (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/118/13/)
yoruichi ends up behind him so he swings at her (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/118/13/)
he's shocked n awed that she's somehow on the other side of the bridge (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/118/15/)
he steps up his game n gets beside her (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/118/16/)
her arm is chopped off n she faints (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/118/17/)
he's in shock n awe again that she smiles n farts on his arm (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/118/18/)
she dares him to follow (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/118/19/)
he shuts up n quits trying (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/119/01/)

I am sorry but none of these scans provide what I asked you to, to show Byakuya that loses sight of Yourichi.

Shut up and quit trying? :rolleye09

she's practiced with it before so she knows how to utilize it better than ichigo does his bankai so i doubt her bones will start cracking or she'll lose strength from using it either.
LOL WTF.
I never said It'd break her bones.
She SAID she didn't master it yet and that it might be DANGEROUS.

Which part of the sentence is unclear to you?

it's the same reason urahara didn't want to train chad w/his bankai; it's a technique that's too dangerous to be used for training purposes.
Facking read, "I DIDN'T MASTER IT YET".

forcing byakuya to defend himself from a shunko attack should be enough to keep the petals from getting to her. if ichigo wasn't just set on proving byakuya wrong about his speed then i bet firing a GT would've given him the opening he needs to finish byakuya in one strike. plus bankai GTs also don't just disipate on impact.
Blaspemy, Byakuya has effectively defended against an attacks who posses spirit far greater than shunko with Senbonzakura! :o

You are actually implying shunko is bankai force attack. Gimmie a break. You can't even proof it's enough powerful to stop the petals ONCE. You have no proof she can do it 1000 times in a row. kthanxbie.

as in...hit many targets at once? or hit one target from different directions..? she instatly took out an entire batle-trained shunpo-capable militia that was scattered around so i doubt circling byakuya n hitting him from different directions will be much of a obstacle for her.
:o

Renji took out entire 6th squad when he wanted to rescue Rukia.

Gimmie a faking break, these are canon folder. :whatevah:

[COLOR=RoyalBlue][SIZE=2][FONT=Comic Sans MS]wow...again with this. it's a fact that ichigo didn't use use a strong GT on the petals.
Again with this shit.

It gets easier the more you due it, and because Ichigo improves with each battle it could only be stronger, tyvm.

[Zanga]

Even if Shunko hold push back SKY, I doubt it's somethign Yourichi can continously use.

Byakuya however can probably go for hours on end.

[Jeggo]

Byakuya would win. I'm bored to go in details , and besides Undying and Diamondedge have already done so.

p.s When Shunko is proved to be as strong as a Bankai , Hitsugaya will pawn Aizen. It will never happen.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Byakuya would win. I'm bored to go in details , and besides Undying and Diamondedge have already done so.
p.s When Shunko is proved to be as strong as a Bankai , Hitsugaya will pawn Aizen. It will never happen.

Hey, Kendo was shown to be stronger than a bankai. (or two)

Why not shunko? xD

[Jay3205]

This should be a case closed battle... seeing as Yoruichi directly admitted to being weaker. Yoruichi in base state was injured by Yammi... and we know that Byakuya would have disposed of Yammi with no problem or injury.

Also, just for reference, Byakuya was so stunned when Yoruichi disappeared because he was sure he hit her, yet she appeared fine. In fact, Byakuya did cut her, and she spits up blood later; she would've lost if she had stayed and tried to fight.

Also, Byakuya knows tons of kidou. If Rukia has enough power to injure the 9th espada with kidou, Yoruichi would be screwed if Byakuya used kidou on her... and we know that Byakuya can easily launch kidou larger than Renji's bankai. Yoruichi's speed won't help if he just blasts away half the field.

[April_San]

it would be a close battle indeed
they are both really strong

[smach]

@h3h3h3: he's got a point though...shunko is lightening and SKY is metal. yoruichi is a lighnting powerhouse that can direct its charges while byakuya is immobile with thousands-to-millions of shredded metal fragments around him. maybe she'll go from cat to human n right into shunko w/o putting on clothes n she'll be shooting lightning bolts from her nipples. :headbang

Shunko gives Yoruichi as much attack power as Bankai Getsuga Tenshou?

Ok fanboy, hold your horses. First, Ichigo could not yet fire GTs in bankai. Second, Shunko has more power than GT in bankai? Shunko has demonstrated nowhere near the destructive power of shikai GT, and you've upped the game to bankai.

SKY effortlessly blocked shikai GT, which has more power than Shunko. That's one argument down.

Also, "defending against a Shunko punch"? Lolwut? She can't disperse the petals, they are faster than her movement or attack speed, and the instant she touches them Byakuya has the opening he needs to wrap her in an omnidirectional sphere, AKA Goukei.

Seriously, your arguments have reached a new level of impossible logic. Shunko is now somehow the equal of a bankai GT. Right.both techniques can be charged up before release. GT aplifies cuts, shunko electrocutes to ashes.

Sigh... Omnidirectional attack = hitting everywhere simultaneously. Yoruihci never demonstrated this kind of attack speed. You really need to look closer at SKY, because you have no idea what you are talking about.

Secondly, the afterimages that Yoruichi left were nowhere near as solid as Ichigo's. In fact, she was more "blinking" as the anime chose to draw it, while Ichigo was leaving nearly solid afterimages.

I think you need an explanation on what omnidirectional means. It means from every direction. Every direction. Full 360 degrees circle from ALL angles. Can your precious Yoruichi attack in all directions at once? Nope. You confused her shunpo speed (which isn't that impressive compared to Ichigo, whose speed is by far greater than hers), which is her movement speed, with her attack speed, which is extremely low.

And since she lacks both attack speed, attack power, and movement speed to outdo SKY in a fight, she stands no chance. afterimages are meaningless if you can't hit your taget. ichigo did it, zomari too...but all that did is confuse byakuya for a second or two. yoruichi wtfpwns an entire executive militia (in the blink of an eye) that was trained both by her n soifon. your only arguement against her speed is the scene at the bridge when she was toying with byakuya, and that ichigo left afterimages while she didn't. logic says the unseen poses greater danger than that which is visible but makes visual replicas to mislead you. byakuya has done the latter, ichigo n yoruichi have done both.

Ichigo didn't fire a full-power GT at the petals? Srsly? He wasn't trying his hardest? Scan plz.

Byakuya's Kido which neutralized Renji's bankai made a pretty big flash too, are you claiming it has more destructive power than Ichigo's GT? Because I have no problem with that, not Byakuya's Kido is more powerful than GT.

GT (which has more power than Ichigo's regular slashes, which in turn caused a massive crater when clashing with Zaraki) demonstrated offensive power enough to slice a mountain easily. Shunko barely made a crater.

You're arguing on superthin ice here, I suggest stopping before you prove you just don't read Bleach.

You're comparing two different fights here. Fo shizzle, Ichigo didn't fire a maximum power GT at the petals. He was trying to get himself killed by firing a half-assed attack at a bankai.

Yeah, I adore your way of thinking. Ichigo wasn't trying to destroy SKY with his attack, he was just firing his weakest attack, because obviously his weakest attack would beat a bankai, and Ichigo knows it.

Also, are you saying that a Getsuga fired at Senbonzakura shikai was more powerful than the one fired at SKY? Seriously? Ichigo must've figured that bankai makes Byakuya weaker, so he should use his weakest possible attack, since firing his maximum at shikai was obviously more obvious.

By your own logic, Ichigo fired a maximum powered GT at Byakuya's shikai, and then used LESS power at Byakuya's bankai.

Either way, maximum GT (according to you, the one that was fired at Byakuya's shikai) demonstrated more destructive power than shuko, since the GT actually caused a large crater and "sliced" the mountain, while Shunko made a big flash and a lot of wind.

Either way, demonstrated attack power is massively different. Even if we follow your "logic"and claim that Ichigo fired a less-powerful GT at Byakuya's shikai than the one he fired at SKY, the demonstrated destructive power is on a whole different scale than Shunko (which didn't even make a proper crater, just a few big flashes and a small hole in the ground, a feat Ichigo surpassed when he fought Kenpachi, and at the time he was weaker than when fighting Byakuya).

SKY effortlessly blocked a GT. That's fact. If it effortlessly blocked GT, it will effortlessly block Shunko, which demonstrated a far lower destructive force (combined from Yoruichi's blocking of Soi Fon and Soi Fon's actual attack).

In other, simpler words, Yoruichi doesn't stand a chance, and your claims are outright ridiculous. Do yourself a favor and stop wasting my time.there was no crater left when clashing with zaraki; their attacks were strong enough to cut two buildings (in half, one behind the other) at the same time n their collision brought a couple others to the ground.

GT strength: (ch162p10-11 (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/162/10-11/)) >= (ch151p21 (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/151/21/)+p22 (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/151/22/)) > (ch160p18-19 (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/160/18-19/)+20 (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/160/20/)) > (ch161p15 (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/161/15/))

ichigo was pissed at byakuya for taking him lightly and not using his bankai; yoruichi barely tried to release a flash but it still carves n disintergrates the battleground, showing soi fon why she wasn't taught the technique.

#33 aka soukatsui fires a large amount of spiritual energy over a wide area. if it could be concentrated into one shot then it would rival zangetsu's core ability. shunko does the latter and also carries TZ's ability, plus it has the added benefit of electrocuting its target.

This should be a case closed battle... seeing as Yoruichi directly admitted to being weaker. Yoruichi in base state was injured by Yammi... and we know that Byakuya would have disposed of Yammi with no problem or injury.
when did she admit being weaker? and she got injured by yami coz of underestimating his skin; i doubt byakuya would kick/punch/stomp yami without sustaining injuries either, let alone be capable of using similar hand-to-hand combat.
Also, just for reference, Byakuya was so stunned when Yoruichi disappeared because he was sure he hit her, yet she appeared fine. In fact, Byakuya did cut her, and she spits up blood later; she would've lost if she had stayed and tried to fight.
when did she spit out blood..? the only ocasion when blood fell near her was when she used the cicada trick on byakuya, and when she was putting ichigo down at the cave, whom she had stabbed n injected with medicine.
Also, Byakuya knows tons of kidou. If Rukia has enough power to injure the 9th espada with kidou, Yoruichi would be screwed if Byakuya used kidou on her... and we know that Byakuya can easily launch kidou larger than Renji's bankai. Yoruichi's speed won't help if he just blasts away half the field.byakuya can't hit what he can't see, n exactly what will he use to blast away half the field? that incantation was used to disrupt the rhythm of renji's bankai, not blast away half the field; renji himself thought it was to blind him, not destroy him. so far, the only person who has shown the strength to blast away half the field is yoruichi, who actually destroyed more than half without even intending to do so.

[Undying]

both techniques can be charged up before release. GT aplifies cuts, shunko electrocutes to ashes.
Shunko can be charged up? Since when? Scan please, don't shoot random stuff out of your ass if you want to debate.

Also, it's hilarious that you mention that it "electrocutes", since Ikkaku and Iba were discussing it. It's Kido, not real lightning.
afterimages are meaningless if you can't hit your taget. ichigo did it, zomari too...but all that did is confuse byakuya for a second or two. yoruichi wtfpwns an entire executive militia (in the blink of an eye) that was trained both by her n soifon. your only arguement against her speed is the scene at the bridge when she was toying with byakuya, and that ichigo left afterimages while she didn't. logic says the unseen poses greater danger than that which is visible but makes visual replicas to mislead you. byakuya has done the latter, ichigo n yoruichi have done both.
No. If one leaves visible parts of them behind when moving, they are moving quite quickly. If someone can leave a tangible target behind, the speed involved is by FAR greater. Yoruichi barely left any afterimages. Ichigo left solid ones. Ichigo's speed is greater.

Also, Byakuya has knowledge and mastery of Yoruichi's technique. Since he has it and knowns of it, he can counter it.
there was no crater left when clashing with zaraki; their attacks were strong enough to cut two buildings (in half, one behind the other) at the same time n their collision brought a couple others to the ground.

GT strength: (ch162p10-11) >= (ch151p21+p22) > (ch160p18-19+20) > (ch161p15)
:whatevah: Ichigo fired a Getsuga when he released bankai? Ichigo used a GT to destroy the stand? I demand proof of this. Ichigo did not fire Getsuga when he released his bankai. Ichigo did not use a Getsuga to bring down the stand, he simply slashed it.

Also, Ichigo and Kenpachi colliding brought down a building, that's the equal of a crater.

Lastly, prove that the GT in ch161 was weaker than the one in chapter 160, since Ichigo would obviously fire a WEAKER attack at Byakuya's bankai. Your logic is astounding.
#33 aka soukatsui fires a large amount of spiritual energy over a wide area. if it could be concentrated into one shot then it would rival zangetsu's core ability. shunko does the latter and also carries TZ's ability, plus it has the added benefit of electrocuting its target.
Kido does not electrocute its target.

Also, prove that theory about Kido first, I'm too lazy to start arguing about Kido but the see-all and end-all situation is that you're just plain wrong.

Ans shunko does not have more power than bankai. Your fantasies are meaningless.
when did she admit being weaker? and she got injured by yami coz of underestimating his skin; i doubt byakuya would kick/punch/stomp yami without sustaining injuries either, let alone be capable of using similar hand-to-hand combat.
"No one on that bridge had a chance against Byakuya". Yoruichi admitted to being inferior. Take you fantasies about electrocuting stuff with Kido lightning somewhere else please
byakuya can't hit what he can't see, n exactly what will he use to blast away half the field? that incantation was used to disrupt the rhythm of renji's bankai, not blast away half the field; renji himself thought it was to blind him, not destroy him. so far, the only person who has shown the strength to blast away half the field is yoruichi, who actually destroyed more than half without even intending to do so
Byakuya can't see Yoruichi? He can see her just fine, she had to resort to Cicada to flee.

And blasting away half the field removes the necessity to see the target, you're simply hitting everything at once. Kind of like his bankai works.

And also. You claim that Shunko has more power than a bankai. You claim that Kido lightning can electrocute people. You claim that Yoruichi's linear attack speed with Shunko can somehow encompass an omnidirectional attack. You claim that Ichigo fired a WEAKER attack at a bankai than he did at a shikai.

I am laughing my ass off at your level of "logic". Look, I know you like Yoruichi, but sexual fantasies don't make for valid arguments.

[smach]

Shunko can be charged up? Since when? Scan please, don't shoot random stuff out of your ass if you want to debate.
soi fon put more power into her final charge and the output drastically increased. only shunko has been clearly shown to be amplifiable; your insults don't prove otherwise coz they're...just insults.
Also, it's hilarious that you mention that it "electrocutes", since Ikkaku and Iba were discussing it. It's Kido, not real lightning.it was shown both in the manga and anime to resemble lightning; just coz you can't accept it don't mean ikkaku n iba were wrong.

No. If one leaves visible parts of them behind when moving, they are moving quite quickly. If someone can leave a tangible target behind, the speed involved is by FAR greater. Yoruichi barely left any afterimages. Ichigo left solid ones. Ichigo's speed is greater.

Also, Byakuya has knowledge and mastery of Yoruichi's technique. Since he has it and knowns of it, he can counter it.zomari n ichigo left afterimages to confuse byakuya; yoruichi destroyed an entire squad w/o even flinching. confusing one person is not even comparable to destroying an entire squad with your previous posture remaining intact. leaving behind decoys is less impressive than defeating an entire squad of at least 15 military-trained opponents without giving a single person the chance to even blink or flinch. in short, being in many places at once and managing to remain invisible is still more effective n impressive than leaving tangible targets behind to hide the real you, and also means you're faster.

:whatevah: Ichigo fired a Getsuga when he released bankai? Ichigo used a GT to destroy the stand? I demand proof of this. Ichigo did not fire Getsuga when he released his bankai. Ichigo did not use a Getsuga to bring down the stand, he simply slashed it.
ichigo stabbed the stand n fired a GT right into the power-absorbing stone, forcing the stand to break apart and also resulting in the big hole at the hill. the bankai release may not have been GT, but the amount of random power released was enough to make byakuya shield himself. if it was all to be concentrated into one slash then byakuya would receive alot of damage if he remained in its path.
Also, Ichigo and Kenpachi colliding brought down a building, that's the equal of a crater.
personally i don't think it's rlly equal...but the point still remains that they did not make a crater.
Lastly, prove that the GT in ch161 was weaker than the one in chapter 160, since Ichigo would obviously fire a WEAKER attack at Byakuya's bankai. Your logic is astounding.the scale of the attacks says it all, so unless you can prove that the one in 161 would've caused comparable damage (or greater) to the hill as the one prior to SKY release...

Kido does not electrocute its target.

Also, prove that theory about Kido first, I'm too lazy to start arguing about Kido but the see-all and end-all situation is that you're just plain wrong.

Ans shunko does not have more power than bankai. Your fantasies are meaningless.

"No one on that bridge had a chance against Byakuya". Yoruichi admitted to being inferior. Take you fantasies about electrocuting stuff with Kido lightning somewhere else please
"None of you could have defeated Byaukya...Rukia wouldn't have a chance at defeating Byakuya anymore than the rest of them back there would have. You alone have the ability to do that, GIVEN the right training. So i brought you back here to GIVE you that training."
Byakuya can't see Yoruichi? He can see her just fine, she had to resort to Cicada to flee.
byakuya lost sight of yoruichi when he first swung his sword and also got mislead by her cicada. if yoruichi was actually fighting then he would've been injured both times.
And blasting away half the field removes the necessity to see the target, you're simply hitting everything at once. Kind of like his bankai works.

And also. You claim that Shunko has more power than a bankai. You claim that Kido lightning can electrocute people. You claim that Yoruichi's linear attack speed with Shunko can somehow encompass an omnidirectional attack. You claim that Ichigo fired a WEAKER attack at a bankai than he did at a shikai.
if a kido flame can burn objects n a kido rope can tie someone up to immobilize them and a kido thrust can actually thrust someone...then a large kido lightning strike that burned the ground can definitely electrocute someone as well.
I am laughing my ass off at your level of "logic". Look, I know you like Yoruichi, but sexual fantasies don't make for valid arguments.srry to tell you this but kido is not just the big flashes of light and six immobilization beams that byakuya has repeatedly used...different techniques have different outcomes, like flames, lightning bolts, magic black boxes, etc...so don't get all pissed just coz yoruichi can actually hold her own without using her zanpakuto or throwing large amounts of mini-shrapnel at her oppenents.

you put byakuya on yoruichi's level in terms of speed coz he managed to catch up to her at the bridge...all you're doing is intentionally disregarding the fact that she wasn't even being serious and that she also effortlessly used more impressive speed after that incident, which has only been approached by bankai ichigo so far.

nobody claimed yoruichi can do a 360-degree omnidirectional attack. i said she can counter it or alternatively dodge/evade.

[diamondedge]

]afterimages are meaningless if you can't hit your taget. ichigo did it, zomari too...but all that did is confuse byakuya for a second or two. yoruichi wtfpwns an entire executive militia (in the blink of an eye)
LOL why do you so stubbornly insist that pawning canon folder is SO awesome? Ichigo with his nobie shikai shills could do it, he even pawned VC's barehanded. lol, seriously.

that was trained both by her n soifon. your only arguement against her speed is the scene at the bridge when she was toying with byakuya, and that ichigo left afterimages while she didn't. logic says the unseen poses greater danger than that which is visible but makes visual replicas to mislead you. byakuya has done the latter, ichigo n yoruichi have done both.
Which you fail to see is that leaving CLONES behind demands much greater speed that only leaving afterimages.

If you can do one, you can do the other, duh.

byakuya can't hit what he can't see, n exactly what will he use to blast away half the field? that incantation was used to disrupt the rhythm of renji's bankai, not blast away half the field; renji himself thought it was to blind him, not destroy him. so far, the only person who has shown the strength to blast away half the field is yoruichi, who actually destroyed more than half without even intending to do so.

Oh my, I must have missed the part where Goukei destroyed an entire Building in HM, and we all know how big the buildings in HM are.

What I also fail to see, how someone dodges something that is closing on you, without any blind spots.
I'd love to see you escape the room that has all 4 walls coming to crush you.

[Undying]

soi fon put more power into her final charge and the output drastically increased. only shunko has been clearly shown to be amplifiable; your insults don't prove otherwise coz they're...just insults.
Shunko was "amplified"? It was two attacks colliding, of course it had more power, you still haven't proven that Shunko can be charged up for greater power.
it was shown both in the manga and anime to resemble lightning; just coz you can't accept it don't mean ikkaku n iba were wrong.
Iba and Ikkaku said it won't electrocute, genius. They said quite clearly it hit ONLY what it was intended to hit. Just because you don't know what you're talking about doesn't make your wishes come true.
zomari n ichigo left afterimages to confuse byakuya; yoruichi destroyed an entire squad w/o even flinching. confusing one person is not even comparable to destroying an entire squad with your previous posture remaining intact. leaving behind decoys is less impressive than defeating an entire squad of at least 15 military-trained opponents without giving a single person the chance to even blink or flinch. in short, being in many places at once and managing to remain invisible is still more effective n impressive than leaving tangible targets behind to hide the real you, and also means you're faster.
Wrong, wrong, and... wrong.

Byakuya and Zomari weren't trying to confuse Byakuya, they were simply so fast, their movement left behind a tangible clone. By FAR faster than Yoruichi. Leaving behind tangible clones requires a FAR greater speed than leaving behind barely visible afterimages.

And Renji destroyed THE ENTIRE 6th squad when he was going to save Rukia. THE ENTIRE SIXTH SQUAD! That must mean he's so awesome, right? Oh and Chad destroyed the entire 11th squad without any effort, that means he's so uberized, RIGHT!? Bullshit. Destroying some nameless random (and mostly even faceless) characters means NOTHING.

Not to mention that Yoruichi barely displayed the same amount of speed as Ichigo and Zomari, who left tangible clones behind because they were simply SO FAST.
ichigo stabbed the stand n fired a GT right into the power-absorbing stone, forcing the stand to break apart and also resulting in the big hole at the hill.
No, Ichigo simply channeled reiatsu into the stand and forced it to break. GT? Bullshit. No GTs involved, thanks.
the bankai release may not have been GT, but the amount of random power released was enough to make byakuya shield himself.
So what? It wasn't GT. It's irrelevant.
if it was all to be concentrated into one slash then byakuya would receive alot of damage if he remained in its path.
The Getsuga aimed at the shikai? Well, DUH! Even Urahara said that he would have been damaged by Ichigo's first GT. That one was back when Ichigo didn't even know the name or conversed with Zangetsu. However, it does not prove that Shunko has more power than GT. On the contrary, it proves GT is quite powerful, and SKY blocked it effortlessly.
personally i don't think it's rlly equal...but the point still remains that they did not make a crater.
So they destroyed several buildings. And you call that less than a single crater? Well...
the scale of the attacks says it all, so unless you can prove that the one in 161 would've caused comparable damage (or greater) to the hill as the one prior to SKY release...
The scale? Excuse me, but in Bleach, the smaller an attack, the more concentrated it is, and thus it has more power. Also, the GT fired at SKY never actually TOUCHED the hill. It hit ONLY SKY. Since it never came in contact with the hill, it could not cause it any damage. And since all of it came in contact with SKY, and since Ichigo was firing an attack at a bankai, common sense usually points that it would have greater power than the first GT he fired.
"None of you could have defeated Byaukya...Rukia wouldn't have a chance at defeating Byakuya anymore than the rest of them back there would have. You alone have the ability to do that, GIVEN the right training. So i brought you back here to GIVE you that training."
Yoruichi wasn't on the bridge? "No one on that bridge - not me, not Rukia, not Hanatarou, not Ukitake - could beat Byakuya. Except you, with proper training". What's your point? No one there could beat Byakuya's bankai, except Ichigo.
byakuya lost sight of yoruichi when he first swung his sword and also got mislead by her cicada. if yoruichi was actually fighting then he would've been injured both times.
And that makes Yoruichi more powerful than Byakuya, who isn't even trying to use any technique, and only swinging his sword? Who didn't use Kido, or even shikai? Also, Byakuya didn't lose sight of her. She DODGED. Chere here (http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-118-page-17.html). He still saw her, she simply managed to avoid him. She, however, lost sight of Byakuya, right here (http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-118-page-18.html).

Byakuya never lost sight of Yoruichi. Neither did she of him. She was shocked at his speed, that's all.
if a kido flame can burn objects n a kido rope can tie someone up to immobilize them and a kido thrust can actually thrust someone...then a large kido lightning strike that burned the ground can definitely electrocute someone as well.
"Hadou 4, White Lightning!" didn't cause any zapping to Ichigo. I rest my case.
srry to tell you this but kido is not just the big flashes of light and six immobilization beams that byakuya has repeatedly used...different techniques have different outcomes, like flames, lightning bolts, magic black boxes, etc...so don't get all pissed just coz yoruichi can actually hold her own without using her zanpakuto or throwing large amounts of mini-shrapnel at her oppenents.
Don't be sad because your sexual fantasy can't win. Oh and "Hadou 4, White Lightning!".

Seriously.
you put byakuya on yoruichi's level in terms of speed coz he managed to catch up to her at the bridge...all you're doing is intentionally disregarding the fact that she wasn't even being serious and that she also effortlessly used more impressive speed after that incident, which has only been approached by bankai ichigo so far.
Wrong. I'm simply saying Yoruichi can't dodge an omnidirectional attack.
nobody claimed yoruichi can do a 360-degree omnidirectional attack. i said she can counter it or alternatively dodge/evade.
It is impossible to dodge an omnidirectional attack. That's why it's omnidirectional. It comes from ALL directions. You have NOWHERE to run to.

And she hasn't displayed any amount of power necessary to block such an attack.

Yoruichi loses, end of story.

[smach]

Shunko was "amplified"? It was two attacks colliding, of course it had more power, you still haven't proven that Shunko can be charged up for greater power.

Iba and Ikkaku said it won't electrocute, genius. They said quite clearly it hit ONLY what it was intended to hit. Just because you don't know what you're talking about doesn't make your wishes come true.
twisting words are we now? (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/160/) koma's VC said it wouldn't hit them coz they were not targeted and since it's a demon art, it wouldn't just go haywire n fly all the way to their location. now, if they were only 5-10ft away with their swords pointing right at soi fon n yoruichi...that's a different story altogether.
Wrong, wrong, and... wrong.

Byakuya and Zomari weren't trying to confuse Byakuya, they were simply so fast, their movement left behind a tangible clone. By FAR faster than Yoruichi. Leaving behind tangible clones requires a FAR greater speed than leaving behind barely visible afterimages.

And Renji destroyed THE ENTIRE 6th squad when he was going to save Rukia. THE ENTIRE SIXTH SQUAD! That must mean he's so awesome, right? Oh and Chad destroyed the entire 11th squad without any effort, that means he's so uberized, RIGHT!? Bullshit. Destroying some nameless random (and mostly even faceless) characters means NOTHING.

Not to mention that Yoruichi barely displayed the same amount of speed as Ichigo and Zomari, who left tangible clones behind because they were simply SO FAST.

No, Ichigo simply channeled reiatsu into the stand and forced it to break. GT? Bullshit. No GTs involved, thanks.
ichigo channeled reiatsu into the stand...using what? his zanpakuto is the only one so far that channels reiatsu n releases it forward; nobody else has that ability. the fact that it also went right through the hill goes to show that it wasn't just a simple act of "channeling reiatsu". otherwise, nobody would've been amazed/shocked by him even being able to break/penetrate the stand.
So what? It wasn't GT. It's irrelevant.

The Getsuga aimed at the shikai? Well, DUH! Even Urahara said that he would have been damaged by Ichigo's first GT. That one was back when Ichigo didn't even know the name or conversed with Zangetsu. However, it does not prove that Shunko has more power than GT. On the contrary, it proves GT is quite powerful, and SKY blocked it effortlessly.

So they destroyed several buildings. And you call that less tha