Spoiler warning if you havent watched all bleach anime

[sham16]

Ok if you havent seen episodes 1 to 111 i think its best not to look at this. For the rest please answer me!

[Ichigo&Zangetsu]

And you're question is..?

[sham16]

According to the anime, Kenpatchi was defeated by ichigo right, without using bankai and was still untrained by Yuroichi. But Ichigo on the other hand had a hard time defeating Byakuya. So does this mean that Kenpatchi is way weaker than Byakuya and even Just Kariya. Thinking that both Byakuya and Ichigo fought with him and came out nothing. But another problem is that Kenpatchi only fights with people who is strong enough to fight him. Might it have been that Kenpatchi underestimated Kariya or Byakuya? (Not that he and Byakuya already fought) Or maybe he knows that he will lose against them?

[Ichigo&Zangetsu]

Well..
1)You can't really put the Bounto stuff in because since it's back to the actual storyline it's like the Bounto never happened.
2)Ichigo had a harder time beating Byakuya because Byakuya also has bankai/shikai while Zaraki only has his massive reiatsu. And Ichigo had help from Ogichi while fighting Byakuya.

Also you don't really know if Zaraki is weaker then Byakuya 'cause..they've never really fought each other? Anyways I think Zaraki isn't weaker due to the fact that he defeated Tousen's bankai which won't let him use his senses.

[sham16]

What do you mean the bounto's are not going to be included? Its a good story, and since the fight went in so its counted or something. Plus the fact that both ichi and byakuya cant defeat him that makes him a force not to be reckoned with.

So back to the question do you think it Kenpatchi is really not that strong as everyone thinks he is?

[Ichigo&Zangetsu]

I meant that like the Bounto fights and stuff wasn't accounted for. They were just fillers and not the main storyline.

I think Kenpachi is still strong, some people couldn't even make a cut in him because of his huge reiatsu.

[sham16]

Then why was he having a hard time fighting ichigo without a bankai? When in fact ichigo still had a hard time fighting byakuya with a bankai. So does this mean Byakuya is stronger than Kenpatchi?

As for the bounto if its part of the anime, eventhough if its just a filler you can still see the characters there and see them fighting am i wrong? But i did see kenpatchi vs. Ichinose though. that was pretty cool.

[sxian]

Its just common sense, what will happen to ichigo if he met Byakuya first?

[Ichigo&Zangetsu]

I don't know, it is my opinion afterall and you're pretty much basing Kenpachi's strength all in one fight.

[sham16]

Ok so i might be wrong about this and since kenpatchi didnt take ichigo seriously so maybe was it jus a fluke or was it the real deal? What do you think?

[Ichigo&Zangetsu]

Kenpachi might have underestimated Ichigo a little because Kenpachi had multiple times to finish Ichigo off during that fight. He only fights with people that are at his level anyways.

[sham16]

So how about byakuya would he be able to do it?

[Ichigo&Zangetsu]

Byakuya would still have a hard time but it's a little unfair because Byakuya has flash steps, shikai, and two forms of bankai. :p

[sham16]

Two forms of Bankai? You mean Senbonzankura and the other one that comes form the ground?

Wouldn't it be possible for Kenpatchi to just blow it all off? With his reistsu i mean.

[Ichigo&Zangetsu]

I think the first form is just the thousands of petals that Byakuya controls and the second is where you can actually see the swords and Byakuya also has a pretty high reiatsu but would have trouble if Kenpachi took off his eyepatch. But Kenpachi could also be worn down with the multiple hits with Byakuya just going crazy with flash steps.

[sham16]

Do you really think that kenpatchi would be fooled by a simple technique such as those of a flash step? Anyhow kenpatchi thrives in pain he would really like that. I am not saying that kenpatchi would pawn byakuya it might be a swell fight wouldn't it? It would be fun to see kenpatchi working for Aizen as being the twist in the story line. lol that would be a great twist. Maybe then we would know who would win between them.

[Ichigo&Zangetsu]

The flash steps could be more of a dodge but anyways, I have to go now. Fun debating with you. :p

http://forums.bleachportal.net/showthread.php?t=20911

^ A Kenpachi vs. Byakuya topic to see other people's opinions. :p

[sham16]

That was a good topic too bad it was closed well maybe you can finish the debate here. I really like to know who is really who. Come to think of it are Ichigo and Byakuya equal. Remember that ichigo still has not mastered his Bankai and Byakuya has mastered it eons ago. So i dont think its fair for Ichigo to be at par with him.

[Lirion]

The fillers (Baunto arc) can not be used to compare anyones strength because that would mean Ishida with his thing that helped him use some of his lost powers is stronger than Bankai Ichigo.
And I don't understand how people can say Zaraki is weak because he got beaten by shikai Ichigo. If Zangetsu did not give Ichigo extra help when he fought Zaraki, Ichigo would have been DEAD now. But if it is true that Ichigo could kill Zaraki with just his shikai then that would mean that Zaraki Kenpachi is weak as hell and will die in less than a second if/when he fights the new enemys.

[sham16]

Zangetsu helped ichigo... Isn't that the entire meaning of using a Bankai making him help you and you helping? Anyhow i am not saying that Kenpatchi is weak all that i was saying is that why Kenpatchi would just fade out in the middle of the battle and yet Byakuya just walks off? Considering the status of Ichigo on both occasions Ichigo was more conditioned and prepared with his fight with Byakuya.

[Undying]

First of all; the Bounto do not count for any references because they are absolutely not part of the storyline. Therefore, basing any speculation on them counts as nonesense.

Next, as for Byakuya and Kenpachi, Byakuya is stornger because he has bankai. His bankai automatically puts him one level above the shikai/bankailess Kenpachi.

[Geosuke]

Its just common sense, what will happen to ichigo if he met Byakuya first?

yes. its just a common plot sequence in almost every anime series to show the main character's progress, not to compare strengths of other characters.

[sham16]

Ok so we can disregared the Bounto series but hey. Ichigo Pawned Kenpatchi with Shikai but had a hard time or even Tied with Byakuya with his Bankai. Is this all because of the sequence of events that he must first battle kenpatchi since kenpatchi has no Bankai? But isnt that saying Kenpatchi is weaker than Byakuya as you said what will happen if he fought Byakuya first? doesnt that mean you are underminding Kenpatchi?