Is it a good idea to discuss government policies in music.

[everblack]

My friend is a hardcore punk rocker and he believs the government is corrupt and that we should live in an anarchist society. He also strongly supports bands that are anti-establishment. I think that these bands undermine the hard efforts of the government, even though there are some people with authority who seek to exploit those weaker than them. I believe that an anachist society is ridiculous and should not be preached about in music. Is it right that they mouth down the government with their anti-establishment preaching.

[Aurenidus]

Do their views make sense? No...but then again, remember that they're musicians. Anyone who forms their political ideology based on entertainment media is pretty much a lost cause no matter who they listen to, though. However, any kind of censorship, especially of political messages, would do nothing but vindicate what they're preaching.

[Vampyrelord]

Cool topic everblack :)

/moved to informal debates.

[Kimochi]

actually i think it's a good idea. since the government hardly listens to people around them, so by making it into a music they can listen and put it into their minds.
But it's also not a good idea because they may feel insulted at some and not all government have enough time to listen to music..

[everblack]

well ive just recoverd from the ful and ive got a few things 2 say:

@Nathan: ty for moving my thread

@general clubbleach public:
I cant believe that only two people have views about this! I think its ridiculous that people expect an ideal world to come about but shouting down a micro phone. They are like fundamantalist who do not think about how to affect polotics they merely charge in blindly and expect the whole world to realise they're right while they insult as many of us as they can. They mock other peoples ideals and preach all this self righteous crap. I think its completely wrong that they produce the kind of music that they do, especially if what they are trying to do is influence the government.

[Setsuna Ai]

As the other person said anarchist government = wack. By abiding to such a government you automatically stated to the whole world, "COME IN YOU CAN RAPE ME, STEAL MY POSSESSIONS, OR OD ANYTHING CRIMINAL THAT IS ALLOWED BY AN ANARCHIST GOVERNMENT!"

I'm surprised musicians think that way. It's either they're using the concept of anarchism to gain attention or they're just demented like that.

And no it's not right. Sure, the politics are flawed but the system itself is a brilliant idea. Do not confuse the corruption shown by our leaders. Besides, even if our system is flawed, that isn't an excuse to tear everything that is justice down.

[dragoneyes001]

the largest reason for adding political messages to music is to build a following of like minded people.

many causes have been fought and won because music portrayed a dissenting view of the policies in question Vietnam is a good example without all the music dissenting the war many thousands more troops would have died for an ill conceived and run policing action. same for segregation and many other issues.

[mind_fissure]

Its freedom of speach, they can say what they want. If other people believe them like they believe every thing on the news thats they're stupidity and they're problem. I have hope that not enough people are that stupid and the human race sees another day.

[deto]

in music you describe your feelings, dreams, fears and bla bla bla, so i
guess you can criticize the government aswell if you feel like.
as long as it doesn't lead to violence or something like that. as long as
the lyrics say something other than just insulting. critic is easy, doing it
better isn't.

personally i laugh about people with their ideas of anarchy, it will simply
never ever work. because we are humans.

[Guy]

OK, anarchy dude=weird dude... lol. I don't agree with him.

To the topic! I don't care if they do, but these musicians ought to be careful. Although they can get people to agree on concepts, doing a crappy job of it can ruin their reputation. They can do it if they want to, freedom of speech, but they screw up their reputation through that, then they have to take the responsibility for it.

[II Xion II]

No, because then people actually think that these radical new governmental systems (like anarchies) are a good thing. Yeah, our government is so corrupt, blah, blah, blah. I would like to see someone live in an anarchy where the Law of the Fittest rules and they live in fear for their lives every day.

Politics and government policies should be analyzed and comprehended at an intellectual level where reasoning and common sense can rule, not in a setting where popular negative emotional sentiments sweep people to see views the way bands want people to see them. That's unconsciousness, disillusionment, and hypnotism. That how demagogues get into power and how horrific political and social events (on the heels of mass emotional sentiment) occur.

If one cannot form their own opinion, then they should not be a member of society, and certainly shouldn't procreate.

[redchinese]

i would have to say as many others on this forum that i agree with them; those who want to sing about how idiotic the government is has every right to do so. its everyone elses choice to believe it or not. you may think its ridiculous idea to have an anarchy, but a lotta people would probably disagree. with so many opinions its hard to say whether this situation is right or not, or if it should be allowed. unless the entire public starts tuneing into that kinda stuff, i wouldn't say if its a really bad thing to have around.

[mooks]

I agree with "dragoneyes001" , i think there are examples where its been beneficial to society.. like Vietnam for example..

Also the beginnings of Hip Hop (not the crap that pollutes the airwaves now) explained the situations, and brought to the open a lot of issues that had been ignored primarily by the press and politicians alike.
KRSOne, RunDMC, Public Enemy, Melle Mel, Eric B & Rakim( and all the forgotten greats), had very deep political rhetoric and speech that expressed the views of a society fed up with the system.

Even NWA's Straight outta Compton (surprising enough), with its famous opening salvo of three songs, the group reflected the rising anger of the urban youth ("Straight Outta Compton"), violently protested police brutality and racial profiling ("**** tha Police"), and painted the worldview of the inner-city youth ("Gangsta Gangsta").

I'm sure there lots of people who may disagree with their stance on politics but just like any other political mindset or view... there is always opposition.

I think its a good idea, some may truly express serious issues (Dead Prez, Public Enemy, Rage against the Machine, GreenDay, etc) while others may be a bit more radical and unrealistic (umm... Rage against the Machine?anarchy movement, MachineState, etc)

[peppertrapped]

the largest reason for adding political messages to music is to build a following of like minded people.


I agree with dragoneyes001 that music brings people of the same ideologies together. Music performs as a uniting bond in people as battlecries unite troops, national anthems unite nations etc. Thus, I believe the intention of creating music to bring forth messages of overthrowing a government is a cry of rebellion. Although I believe in freedom of speech and I very much respect artists' rights in creating their own music, such actions are against the law and people who are doing it could be (if it applies in their country) be tried for the crime of rebellion. If they prove to be influential enough, these groups could cause government instability and thus create a national conflict.

Anarchist society isn't the answer to a nation plagued with crisis... It will just fast-track the degradation of the society to the most distressing level.

[KingKong]

Anarchist society isn't the answer to a nation plagued with crisis... It will just fast-track the degradation of the society to the most distressing level.

LOL, I second that, some of my friends from highschool were punks and the level of their dunno, cleanliness/hygiene, was distressing. Picture a kitchen with 3 week old half full yoghurt drinks ... flies ... ounces of mold ... larva

But on topic, freedom of speech in music is very important. What are you proposing, a ban on Punk Rock?! Which by the way, works well for proponents of an establishment, because Punk gives Anarchy a somewhat vile stigma. Anarchy, Chaos Theory, etc have more depth than mohawks in tight jeans drinking too much beer and acting anti social.

What about Rage Against The Machine????
Zak De La Rocha is a) the man and b) ventilates a lot more anger towards the 'establishment'. "Know your Enemy"? That's openly calling out the government.
Thing is, he backs it up as well. You can find him interviewing Noam Chomsky on economical exploitation of Mexico.

So yes music is an important medium for people to express their feelings.
Admitted, Punk Rock is not really expressing much (usually) more than a f*ck all f*ck everything attitude. (Although NOFX's "Kill All The White Men" does tackle a very controversial subject)

[Draffut]

Is it a good thing? no.

Is it illegal, or should they stop? no.

[ZER(o)]

Feel free to disagree with me about this:
--
Punk rock, in my opinion, has ironically kind of become what it tried to steer from all along; a trend. Punk rock broke into the mainstream in 1994 (which spawned "pop punk" as we know it today) with Green Day, the Offspring, and Rancid. The entire anarchy thing seems a bit misinformed, and not very common. I think your friend and others associated are just going through a bit of a "phase" for shock value, but the less extreme Anti-Bush/Anti-War/Anti-WhateverTopic is becoming increasingly present in music today. It's cool to hate the cool, and it's cool for your band's music to reflect a topic that makes you sound responsible and active in your country. The entire premise has just become bogus to me, and I try to steer from it completely. So many bands are saying the same thing, you'd think people would eventually get sick of hearing the same regurgitated idea.

[Reefern86]

I have to agree withh Zer(o) in some respects. The main reason of political based music is falling away, but it is simply because it has become to comercialized and the artist normally are being restricted by the lables themselve to make more money. I love political music, but not any that is normally considered "main stream" cause that gives either a watered down version or one that is just too radical to ever work or be taken seriously. Go search out "underground" music in ur area and listen to real lyrics that haven't been watered down for the masses, and REAL political ideas can be expressed!

[ZER(o)]

I suppose I shouldn't make such a sweeping generalization. There have to be SOME bands who try to display genuine frustration in a constructive way, but they're a dying breed.

[mooks]

I don't think its a dying breed... I think they are just harder to find than it once was..

take underground hiphop for example- with the disbanding of Rawkus Entertainment- it became harder to find music by artists such as Little Brother , Company Flow, Common(although they have all become commercialized, with hit albums.... i think i just proved your point!) Definitive Juxtaposition, to a certain extent...

These artists had music that had a general distaste for the injustice governments and certain factions of society had.

A good example is A Tribe Called Quest.. who were the first to comment on the Genocide in Somalia before it was mentioned in the news (A big shock- considering the time it takes to release a song and the time it takes to release a segment on the news).

MosDef's "Bin Laden" or "Katrina Klap" that expressed the sentiments of people fed up with the way the Katrina issue was handled or the war in Iraq.

Maybe its because I'm so closely connected to underground music and i find it hard to disassociate myself from it and be lured by the MTV versions of genre music... I guess ZER(o)'s definition of "dying breed" best describes it

[KingKong]

But is that really true, or does is just seem that way?
I don't think music is a dying breed, or music where people express genuine feelings.
Perhaps it seems that way if you dig HipHop, because nowadays "Urban" leads pop. I know plenty of MCs dealing with real issues, far from mainstream fast food culture, in my hometown alone.

Also ZER(o), I get what you're saying. But the absence of constructive ideas in (some) music may have many causes. Syntax may be one. Utter confusion about whats going on in the world another.

"Its not that I'm anti, its just that I can't lie, [censored]"

[ZER(o)]

It is possible to use your fame for constructive ways. The members of System of a Down are descendents from survivors of the Armenian Genocide, I read somewhere. They use their fame as a platform to raise awareness about this. So a responsible band can make good of the situation, I suppose. And KingKong, I didn't mean music itself is dying, nor is the idea of people expressing themselves in music. It's just watered-down now. It's a trend to hate corporate America, and to identify with your audience because you, the big rock star, also feels pain and depression. I'm sick of people riding the whole "my life is a mess" bandwagon (Papa Roach - Last Resort, Three Days Grace - Pain, etc), and it's fairly contradictive for bands to show their distaste for the state of corporate rock on a nationwide radio station.

[KingKong]

Yes I agree with you, personnally I listen to The Roots a lot, they definitely have constructive lyrics.

Something went wrong in that last post, what I meant was that most pop can imo hardly be called music. Like we don't call a burger meal food but fast food, we should call pop songs something alike, perhaps minute maid music.

And the other thing, people make music. If they can't find constructive to voice their criticisms it may be due to a lack of effort and/or insight on their part. By no means should that mean they should stop making music, at least there still is music to simply express frustration and anger. Especially since their target audience may lack interest and insight as well.

Now I'm thinking this may sound incredibly arrogant, but well, the above mentioned bands do have great success. I'll take your word for it that their music is simple and such.

[ZER(o)]

I wasn't really suggesting that they stop making music. It really doesn't affect me whatsoever, especially if I don't listen to it (although I do love me some System of the Down). And yeah, if you've produced even one record that went Gold, it's impossible to escape the fact that your band has become successful. Then there's the "underground successful" bands.

What I meant to convey was the irony and hypocracy of those aformentioned bands. It's obvious they're only singing songs about pain to make money. But, some people like it, so good for them. I personally don't.