Urahara VS Ulquiora [Archive]

koolspot

02-14-2007, 08:38 PM

Some of my friends have been asking this too much som i´ll put this question here... in my opinion urahara is stronger than ulquiora, he has not used his bankai yet, but... what do you think?

* Dexter arrives on the spot *

Well done. I wasn't sure you'd make it this far. I've found the next letter.

Here, it's A. Is it making sense yet?

There's another riddle ahead. Do what you do best.

* Dexter goes to check other Shinigami aren't lost in space *

Right to left, remember.
http://img56.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000262/10.jpg

http://img56.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000262/11.jpg

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/262/11/

http://img56.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000262/12.jpg

http://img56.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000262/13.jpg

http://img56.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000278/01.jpg

http://img56.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000278/05.jpg

http://img56.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000058452/16.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/e63qxu.jpg

http://img56.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000064232/20.jpg

gdo01

02-14-2007, 08:41 PM

Bleach battles (http://forums.bleachportal.net/forumdisplay.php?f=133)

.:Drocr:.

02-14-2007, 08:42 PM

HAHA by the look of Ulqs face when Urahara came I think Ura will kick his butt!

Urahara and his awesomeness

koolspot

02-14-2007, 08:46 PM

HAHA by the look of Ulqs face when Urahara came I saw Ura will kick his butt!
Urahara and his awesomeness

I think urahara is very cool, and not even ulquiora can kick his butt.

Zulehan

02-14-2007, 08:48 PM

Ulq is an intellectual like Urahara, though I believe Urahara is much more intelligent, and he has much more tricks up his sleeve, being a scientist and all.

.:Drocr:.

02-14-2007, 08:52 PM

koolspot

02-14-2007, 09:01 PM

Zulehan

02-14-2007, 09:14 PM

Not only that but Ulq fled LOL! He was like

"Thats Urahara and Yoruichi no way we can defeat them"

LOL!!
That was quite an intelligent move. Though he poorly reasoned his way out of the fact that he didn't really achieve his goal (ie.--kill the "trash"), he knew that the probability was high that he would lose to sandal hat and cat lady. Consider this:

1-- Urahara and Yoruichi have trained together since late youth, and are a very exceptional team.

2-- Urahara does not only possess unusual power, but he is a scientific mastermind and exceptional intellectual. Yoruichi also possesses good intelligence and has great skill, as witnessed by her quick and efficient pummelling of Yami, and, as another example, her defeat of Soi Fong by superiority of skill DESPITE HAVING BEEN INACTIVE FOR YEARS UPON YEARS compared to Fong, who has been an exceptional student since being put into favor by Yoruichi in their early to late teens, and having trained very hard and consistently for the proceeding years since Yoruichi left her, becoming a captain at a relatively young age.

3-- Ulq knows his partner is an idiot and doesn't possess the cunning and unusual height of skill that Urahara and Yoruichi have. As well, Ulq lacks the benefit of a great team, like his opponents had at their disposal. Therefore, Ulq would get his ass kicked in a mostly 2-on-1, regardless of how well he performs. And he knew that the advantage that he had from his opponents having to protect the "trash" would still not be nearly enough to tip the favor against opponents of this caliber and without a partner of his caliber.

4-- Even if he felt there was the remote possibility of a win, he took into account that it's not worth it, that the "trash" could be taken out at a more convenient time, because, though this "trash" is quite strong and has done very well in a short amount of time, he calculated with good justification that he is still not close to being a real threat to Aizen. I feel that Aizen understood why Ulq really chose the action he did, that the "trash" not being a good enough threat yet was just his way of saying "at least it's not nearly so bad a loss of a good opportunity because. . ." and Aizen thought that was sufficient.

Lady Ushio

02-14-2007, 09:16 PM

man... this thread should be moved to the Bleach Battles Section and please put a poll on this thread....

As for my comment, I like Urahara better. I'm not familiar with Ulq yet (since I haven't read the manga), but it's cool when I watch him opened the portal. I think it's cool.

Zulehan

02-14-2007, 09:24 PM

Did you, like me, think the sound affects applied for that ripping of and closing of the sky was pretty cool?

koolspot

02-14-2007, 09:32 PM

That was quite an intelligent move. Though he poorly reasoned his way out of the fact that he didn't really achieve his goal (ie.--kill the "trash"), he knew that the probability was high that he would lose to sandal hat and cat lady. Consider this:

1-- Urahara and Yoruichi have trained together since late youth, and are a very exceptional team.

2-- Urahara does not only possess unusual power, but he is a scientific mastermind and exceptional intellectual. Yoruichi also possesses good intelligence and has great skill, as witnessed by her quick and efficient pummelling of Yami, and, as another example, her defeat of Soi Fong by superiority of skill DESPITE HAVING BEEN INACTIVE FOR YEARS UPON YEARS compared to Fong, who has been an exceptional student since being put into favor by Yoruichi in their early to late teens, and having trained very hard and consistently for the proceeding years since Yoruichi left her, becoming a captain at a relatively young age.

3-- Ulq knows his partner is an idiot and doesn't possess the cunning and unusual height of skill that Urahara and Yoruichi have. As well, Ulq lacks the benefit of a great team, like his opponents had at their disposal. Therefore, Ulq would get his ass kicked in a mostly 2-on-1, regardless of how well he performs. And he knew that the advantage that he had from his opponents having to protect the "trash" would still not be nearly enough to tip the favor against opponents of this caliber and without a partner of his caliber.

4-- Even if he felt there was the remote possibility of a win, he took into account that it's not worth it, that the "trash" could be taken out at a more convenient time, because, though this "trash" is quite strong and has done very well in a short amount of time, he calculated with good justification that he is still not close to being a real threat to Aizen. I feel that Aizen understood why Ulq really chose the action he did, that the "trash" not being a good enough threat yet was just his way of saying "at least it's not nearly so bad a loss of a good opportunity because. . ." and Aizen thought that was sufficient.

Agree to this...:headbang

Ulquiora said his cool stuff, but he was runnig away...

Zulehan

02-14-2007, 09:36 PM

Meh. Running away is so underestimated. If the opportunity is very much against you, and you can always afford to set up another one, the best course of action is usually going to be to run away. There is nothing cool about being like General Custer, who kept his men and himself in certain slaughter because he felt he's too manly to retreat. I remember how one person made a banner with a picture of Custer and the following quote: "Better to stay the course than to 'cut and run'".

5000

02-14-2007, 09:45 PM

Urahara the best he beats all!

koolspot

02-14-2007, 09:53 PM

Urahara the best he beats all!

Amen

.:Drocr:.

02-14-2007, 09:54 PM

True and good points. But as 'koolspot' said, He ran. And running is running no matter what.

BTW the sound was awesome when it ripped open FTW!

Zulehan

02-14-2007, 10:02 PM

The sound affects almost make up for the running away, but I know that even if it's the best course of action he could have taken, that it'd be a whole spectrum of awesome if they kept fighting.

Insight

02-14-2007, 10:14 PM

i think that in a fight uli would definately win and quite easily as well. however in terms of coolness i vote for urahara so he got my vote.

koolspot

02-14-2007, 10:20 PM

i think that in a fight uli would definately win and quite easily as well. however in terms of coolness i vote for urahara so he got my vote.

Dude, urahara is in aizen´s reiatsu league, can you really think that ulquiora would win? Plus his experience

Decado

02-14-2007, 10:34 PM

Yea so not only does Ura have brains but he also has the skill to back it up.
Im not say Ulq doesnt have this but I doubt it is as much as Ura since he is older and has more experience.
Not only that but Ulq fled LOL! He was like
"Thats Urahara and Yoruichi no way we can defeat them"
LOL!!
obviously not a manga reader.....

Ok firstly to everyone who only watches the anime and has made up their mind already for Urahara, take some things into considertaion:

1. Ulquiorra said (in the anime, and some versions of translations) : "That is Urahara and Yoruichi. There's no way you (referring to Yammi) can defeat them in your current level"

2. He clearly stated he HAD the ADVANTAGE

3. He stopped Urahara's MOST POWERFUL shikai attack WITH A WAVE OF HIS HAND.
That means he did NOT draw his zanpakutou. He did not even try. Flick of the hand ppl.

4. Urahara had powered up Benihime to its greatest possible power for shikai - and if u read the real thing (the manga) you will see his SHOCKED expression on Urahara as Ulquiorra easily stops the attack stronger than a damn CERO beam without so much as flinching, not only stopping the attack but dissipating it

5. Wait to see the difference of level Ulquiorra really has over everyone.

Plus, Ulquiorra has his

his "release" - which is Arrancar equivalent to a bankai
thus logically if:

Ulquiorra > Urahara Shikai

Urahara Bankai > Ulquiorra

then:

Ulquiorra Released > Urahara Bankai

HOWEVER: i'm not saying Ulquiorra will win, since Urahara is damn powerful, and his bankai seems to be something akin to a one hit kill, but at least know the facts first w/o spouting false evidence. :whatevah:

Zulehan

02-14-2007, 11:01 PM

Urahara simply said he fired off a blast equal in power to that of a Cero the strength of which Yami was able to create. That doesn't necessarily mean he fired off a blast as strong as he possibly can with shikai to cancel it out, it only establishes that he had to fire off a strong blast, becuase, as we know, a Cero blast from an Espada is bound to be quite strong.

In the manga, Ju-Ni translation of chapter 194, Ulq says this:

"Idiot. You're out of your mind, Yami? These two are Urahara Kisuke and Shihouin Yoruichi. They are far beyond our level. At this rate, we'll lose, unless..."
It's the anime where he says that only Yami would be unable to win.

Furthermore, the advantage he spoke of was as to the fact that sandal hat and cat lady had to protect the "trash", that's not to indicate that they're more powerful.

Decado

02-14-2007, 11:09 PM

i used the anime quote for the anime watchers. But everything else still stands - b/c we're talking about Ulquiorra vs Urahara

NOT Ulquiorra & wounded yammi vs Yoruichi & Urahara to everyone who's saying "he ran away"

Urahara simply said he fired off a blast equal in power to that of a Cero the strength of which Yami was able to create. That doesn't necessarily mean he fired off a blast as strong as he possibly can with shikai to cancel it out, it only establishes that he had to fire off a strong blast, becuase, as we know, a Cero blast from an Espada is bound to be quite strong.
true. But y would he send off a blast that could only wound Yammi further

You can see he was/would obviously be going for the kill.

again: we're talking of Ulquiorra vs Urahara, so all other facts still stand..

in the end i still see Urahara winning...... but he is just one of those characters..

Zulehan

02-14-2007, 11:20 PM

It seems you can read Urahara's mind, then, because he didn't say anything outright or with obvious or strong implication that he meant to put an end to Yami, he only indicates that he's going to demonstrate to Yami that he really did cancel his Cero with a blast of equal power, regardless of how Yami handles it.

It seemed to me that your first point (more so before you edited it after my response and added "(in the anime)"), as with the others, was to set those straight who only watch the anime and don't read the manga, yet the manga is a stronger canon, being that the anime is based on it, and Ju-Ni, the most reliable translation, has Ulq clearly stating that sandal hat and cat lady are not only the betters, but by a LARGE MARGIN. He says both of them are better, he doesn't say, together, they're better. The way it's phrased, the case is stronger that he meant either of them would be much more than an even match for himself (Ulq) or his teammate (Yami).

II Xion II

02-14-2007, 11:36 PM

I believe Ulquiorra and Yammi with their zanpakutos released could put up quite a battle (especially Ulquiorra), but I believe that Ulquiorra did not think such a high-powered and drawn out fight would be worth it. I do not know who would have won, but I would lean towards Urahara (Yoruichi likely doesn't stand a chance against a full-powered Ulquiorra). Urahara might have to go bankai, but I think he would win. Still, we do not know the true power of any of those individuals, so it is an educated guess at best.

Decado

02-14-2007, 11:40 PM

It seems you can read Urahara's mind, then, because he didn't say anything outright or with obvious or strong implication that he meant to put an end to Yami, he only indicates that he's going to demonstrate to Yami that he really did cancel his Cero with a blast of equal power, regardless of how Yami handles it.

it's just a matter of sense. as i said before, y would he just try to damage him further?

He says both of them are better, he doesn't say, together, they're better. The way it's phrased, the case is stronger that he meant either of them would be much more than an even match for himself (Ulq) or his teammate (Yami).
now it's just a matter of interpretation.

the evidence that i stated before, which i won't bother repeating, does still favour Ulquiorra in his released state, but we don't know Urahara's bankai... which is the reason i think Urahara will still win.

Also remember that

Urahara fights Yammi later.... focus on that fight

and then foucs on the the diff of Ulq > Grimm & Shinji (in Vaizard) & Rukia & Bankai ichigo (just off Vaizard)

He was faster than them all. They didn't sense him until he was already there...and we're talking about the 6th Espada, two Vaizards + bankai, and rukia who couldn't sense him until he already had his hand on Grimm's hilt

Habanero

02-14-2007, 11:54 PM

Hmm... M7 translation:

Ulqi:"They're far beyond your level Yammi."

One on one, I think Ulqi would win. Urahara has many tricks in his sleaves, but I think the power difference is too big to overcome.

Lady Ushio

02-15-2007, 12:13 AM

Did you, like me, think the sound affects applied for that ripping of and closing of the sky was pretty cool?

huh?. I don't know you and I'm not interested. and this is the 2nd division's logo btw.

Yvese

02-15-2007, 02:46 AM

That was quite an intelligent move. Though he poorly reasoned his way out of the fact that he didn't really achieve his goal (ie.--kill the "trash"), he knew that the probability was high that he would lose to sandal hat and cat lady. Consider this:

1-- Urahara and Yoruichi have trained together since late youth, and are a very exceptional team.

2-- Urahara does not only possess unusual power, but he is a scientific mastermind and exceptional intellectual. Yoruichi also possesses good intelligence and has great skill, as witnessed by her quick and efficient pummelling of Yami, and, as another example, her defeat of Soi Fong by superiority of skill DESPITE HAVING BEEN INACTIVE FOR YEARS UPON YEARS compared to Fong, who has been an exceptional student since being put into favor by Yoruichi in their early to late teens, and having trained very hard and consistently for the proceeding years since Yoruichi left her, becoming a captain at a relatively young age.

3-- Ulq knows his partner is an idiot and doesn't possess the cunning and unusual height of skill that Urahara and Yoruichi have. As well, Ulq lacks the benefit of a great team, like his opponents had at their disposal. Therefore, Ulq would get his ass kicked in a mostly 2-on-1, regardless of how well he performs. And he knew that the advantage that he had from his opponents having to protect the "trash" would still not be nearly enough to tip the favor against opponents of this caliber and without a partner of his caliber.

4-- Even if he felt there was the remote possibility of a win, he took into account that it's not worth it, that the "trash" could be taken out at a more convenient time, because, though this "trash" is quite strong and has done very well in a short amount of time, he calculated with good justification that he is still not close to being a real threat to Aizen. I feel that Aizen understood why Ulq really chose the action he did, that the "trash" not being a good enough threat yet was just his way of saying "at least it's not nearly so bad a loss of a good opportunity because. . ." and Aizen thought that was sufficient.Couldn't have said it better myself. Both Ulq and Urahara are strong characters but the fact is.. we havn't seen much of Ulq or Urahara ( Although we do know that Urahara is a genius and has many tricks up his sleave - Read the manga to find out what I mean =P ) so it would be pretty pointless deciding who would win.

Zulehan

02-15-2007, 02:49 AM

huh?. I don't know you and I'm not interested. and this is the 2nd division's logo btw.
What? So what if you don't know me? You commented on how cool you thought the opening of the portal was during Ulq's retreat, so I was just asking if you liked the sound effects for it. Jeez. What about the 2nd Division logo? I didn't ask about it. Is that a warning or something?

Edit-- I was just informed by another member that Kin may have thought I was asking if he/she liked me. I didn't imagine it'd be interpreted that way. o.o

Raeoki

02-15-2007, 03:14 AM

What? So what if you don't know me? You commented on how cool you thought the opening of the portal was during Ulq's retreat, so I was just asking if you liked the sound effects for it. Jeez. What about the 2nd Division logo? I didn't ask about it. Is that a warning or something?

Edit-- I was just informed by another member that Kin may have thought I was asking if he/she liked me. I didn't imagine it'd be interpreted that way. o.o

Wow, how random...he said nothing about half the things she said. Anyway, I would say Urahara ust because he has all of the devices up his sleeve. While the power difference between Ulq and Yammi is great, Yammy couldnt even touch Urahara with his tricks so Id say Ulq could touch him but Urahara has yet to reveal his bankai.

Zephyr

02-15-2007, 03:52 AM

I would have to say slipper hat. Ulq was very smart enough to avoid a fight between him. Can't wait to see Ura in action more.

Jay3205

02-15-2007, 03:58 AM

In a one on one, I'd lean towards Ulquiorra winning. He's one of the stronger espada. Even if Urahara did not put his full strength into the attack, it would still mean a partial attack is weaker than Ulquiorra's hand, which would be quite a bit less than Ulquiorra using his sword. Considering Ulquiorra did not look like he was even trying hard to deflect the blast, chances are he is a bit stronger than Urahara.

Besides, Ulquiorra did say that he has the advantage while they're protecting Ichigo. This implies that he could win over both Yoruichi and Urahara at the same time, so he can probably beat them individually.

paulsan2112

02-15-2007, 04:42 AM

first off, and not to be rude, i do believe this is in the ANIME section, so it's up to the ANIME to decide.

obviously not a manga reader.....

... ... ...

thus logically if:

Ulquiorra > Urahara Shikai

Urahara Bankai > Ulquiorra

then:

Ulquiorra Released > Urahara Bankai

flawed logic. we don't know any values. let's use numbers.

ulq = 4 = UL
ulq bankai = 8 = UB
ura shikai = 2 = UR
ura bankai = 6 = URB

if that was the case, then you are correct. UR<UL<URB<UB

what if:

UL 3
UB 6
UR 2
URB 8

(basically, what i'm saying here is we don't know numerically the jump in power for UR from shikai to bankai, or UL in standard or release.) URB>all

even worse:

UL 4-7 (who knows how much effort was put in deflecting, altho prolly closer to lower end by using appearence of ease as reference)
UB 8-X (possible, but probably better represented as a single, highest unit)
UR 2-5 (THIS WOULD BE A GOOD REP FOR WE DONT KNOW HOW HARD HE ATTACKED)
URB 6-Y (poss, but better rep by single high unit as well)

this is prolly the best rep, all figures being arbitrary of course, of what the stacking order would really be. also note, both X and Y are unknown, because placing a value to either would be taking sides. It is just as possible that X=Y.... what then?

everything else is opinion. we don't know what is going to happen because we don't know power levels in a numeric form or whatever so it's impossible to tell. even then, it's a mute point, because of extenuating factors, such as a random slip in a UFC/pride fight could lose the fight for who is the obviously more powerful/skillful person. but that you already know.

as it's been said before in this thread, it's a hard question to answer not knowing all the pieces. Uh vs Ul in anime or in manga, there's a lot left unanswered.

Some things I want to touch on:

Uha did not look too distraught when his attack was deflected. IN THE ANIME. Even if he was, who's to say he wouldn't just be suprised that Ulq stepped in, as opposed to Ulq having the power to cast it off so easily.

His shikai attack: from the anime, and from what I've only read people post in the manga, it's still uncertain of how powerful it was compared to how powerful it could have been. Pointless to argue. Was he making a point? Was he trying to damage YAMMI (why argue that it wasn't enough to scratch Ulq if it was only meant for yammi... on the sidelines up until that point)? As smart as he is, maybe he knew Yammi was no match and was going at it just enough for yammi to be overwhelmed, forcing Ulq's hand to move (quite literally) to better guage the power level of the obviously more powerful of the two? Maybe, he knew he was so superior, he was just playing around/showing off and realized the most important thing was not to draw out a fight that he knows he could win, but to drive them off relatively quickly to tend to the stricken. Maybe Ulq knew the same in regards to himself, and figured the mission was complete, and look after yammi (knowing that aizen might be pissed, even if Ulq won), but i doubt that.

What whatever character states about who is stronger: Whether anime or manga, they are opinions. It has been shown time and again that people often misread someone's abilities, or simply talk a big game out of pride. How often has someone lost because they underestimated their oponent? How often do you find, only once battle has commenced, that one or the other did a better job at hiding power levels, or ability, to look weeker (it has it's vantages, read 'the art of war'). So I would take dialogue with a grain of salt; as always, actions speak louder than words.

Decado

02-15-2007, 05:01 AM

first off, and not to be rude, i do believe this is in the ANIME section, so it's up to the ANIME to decide.

that's just ignorant. not to be rude.. but Bleach is originally the manga. We don't include the bounto in our discussions for a reason.

Thus all your other arguments just using the anime cannot really be used (about Ura's expression) because it is not wat was intended from the creator, since the anime is different from his work.

flawed logic. we don't know any values. let's use numbers.

My logic is not flawed. :whatevah: I went on to say:
HOWEVER: i'm not saying Ulquiorra will win, since Urahara is damn powerful, and his bankai seems to be something akin to a one hit kill
Thus, i already covered the fact that to denote using numbers is also equivalent to using common logic theory.

if that was the case, then you are correct. UR<UL<URB<UB
Thankyou.. I also agree...

also note, both X and Y are unknown, because placing a value to either would be taking sides. It is just as possible that X=Y.... what then?
exactly. As i said above about the need to use numbers...

Otherwise that was a very good post. Glad to see you put thought into it...

as always, actions speak louder than words.
Thankyou!! That's wat i've been using as evidence to back Ulquiorra (not his victory.. but his ability against Urahara) -check my previous post

I compared urahara's current fights to Ulquiorra's total exploits.

So far, in THAT regard, Ulq is doin far greater than Urahara

tho in the end, again, i expect Urahara to eventually drag a victory out of the situatuon.

paulsan2112

02-15-2007, 05:34 AM

Agree for the most part, but I will say this.

you said:

"thus logically if:

Ulquiorra > Urahara Shikai

Urahara Bankai > Ulquiorra

then:

Ulquiorra Released > Urahara Bankai

HOWEVER: i'm not saying Ulquiorra will win, since Urahara is damn powerful, and his bankai seems to be something akin to a one hit kill, but at least know the facts first w/o spouting false evidence. "

Just came across sounding to me like you were stating FACTS as you put it, throwing in the caveat (which we agree) at the end. I read your whole post and understood what you were saying, I just think that 'logic' needed a little debunking, lol.

I just get on edge when people throw the logic word out, often too carelessly. I did say, IT COULD BE CORRECT. Just that it could be otherwise, so I don't think it needed be stated like it was fact.

Well, for what has been seen or read thus far, i guess that's all you can compare to. I haven't read the manga. Sometimes, I think people read too far into the anime tho...

Now, as for:

"that's just ignorant. not to be rude.. but Bleach is originally the manga. We don't include the bounto {{{never mentioned bouto!!! - me}}} in our discussions for a reason.

Thus all your other arguments just using the anime cannot really be used (about Ura's expression) because it is not wat was intended from the creator, since the anime is different from his work."

I am fully aware of bleach's origins. I have stated many times, that I haven't read the manga however. BUT I DISAGREE 100% on principle alone:
this thread is in the ANIME and not the MANGA section. Thus, only manga applies. If there is a difference in anime from the manga, that can only be a fault of the animators (who's to say it's not better off, since maybe it would appear better animated in certain ways than on paper. or even that the animators have permission from original author to change minute or even semi-important things. I don't care the reason or whatnot, and not here to argue the differences. I am aware only of the anime.).

maybe the creator gave artistic liscensing. maybe he wants to retail the story a different way, second time around thinking back, and told them to change it. I know a lot of musicians who will sing different lyrics to what they already wrote in printed lyrics because they feel like changing it. storytellers, i assume, do the same.

thus, I explicitly and BOLDLY alluded to the ANIME to not confuse anyone, because I do not know nor care how it played out in the MANGA. And I think that is very applicable to this thread. Moreso, even, than what happened in the manga. (besides, I keep reading different stories about what even happened in the manga, so that really isn't usuable in the discussion until everyone can get on the same page about how it was translated this or that way.)

Decado

02-15-2007, 06:19 AM

yeah, but this discussion could easily be moved to the proper section - battle section if a mod sees it... so b/c it's in the anime section doesn't mean to only use anime facts
manga facts to support are fine, that's y we have spoilers and yes, we cannot determine anything from anything we've seen in the anime so far, thus the need to use the real source - manga, which has also revealed far more about both.

about the "logic" thing at the start, i don't see a flaw anywhere, because i used IF - thus everything must be correct after that :)

paulsan2112

02-15-2007, 06:31 AM

o rly? yare-yare. well i guess i'm done then, lol

sniperz

02-15-2007, 12:03 PM

theres like chances uruhara is greater.. look at him his wearing all those crappy shirts to fite. the shikai he released might be aimed for yammi, and ulquiorra was like deflecting it without breaking sweat. from what i see is,ulquioora might juz be deflecting a weaker lvl behinimie tat uruhara used. so there's always a chance BANKAI uruhara will totally 1 v 1 rule.

imagine his shikai can be used for offensive/defensive which shud be greater than byakukya in terms of his hidden (Uber) reaitsu. so..

his bankai shud be an all out attacks as u said 1 hit ko to ulqioora (tat might be when uruhara was injured a bit due to ulquoirra's attack (tat might happen in future)

so we'll predict wat bankai uruhara has:

wat i think is a senkei which is greater and 10x times byakukya's. where uruhara can shoot his behinimie like 5 times faster which ulqiuoora has a hard time to escape since uruhara unleased the PYRAMID behinimie style in shikai.

suppose that the bankai version will be .. too good to be revealed XD! lol

i was juz saying tat uruhara's bankai shud be totally destructive.. more like a black coffin but like 10 times greater to finish off vastolords like ulqoirra.

ulquoirra's lvl shud be same with ichigo =) (as he mentioned the reaitsu things,tats when ichigo maintain tat balance and his strength,he'll have a match for ulqioora)

so dun expect ulqoirra to be tat strong XD! but his indeed one of the top10 vastolords of aizzens.

aizens would be like 1 v 10 most of the vastolords? (theres a very big chance he is)

_mike_

02-15-2007, 01:04 PM

Kyouka Suigetsu

02-16-2007, 01:13 AM

i would have to say. urahara.
the question atm is whether ichigo is stronger than urahara atm. since ulquiorra said ichis reiatsu fluctuates and when its high, its higher than his own. now we know ichi has more "potential" than urahara. now does this mean that he has surpassed urahara, coz before ogichi started "molesting" ichigo, he looked as he could pwn yami hands down, and he gave yoruichi a bit of trouble had it not been for urahara......

Later events in the manga have put the context of Ulquiorra's comment into doubt. Most people think that he was referring to Ichigo's power compared to him in his unreleased state. Not only that, but Kurosaki's power was in a state of flux from incredibly low to nearing what is probably his full potential. We all know that Ichigo will eventually become the most powerful or one of the most powerful characters in Bleach.

I say Ulquiorra from what I've seen. The things emoboy has done eclipse any of sandal hat's actions so far.

Undying

02-16-2007, 10:19 AM

/moved to Bleach Battles section

Remember peeps, if oyu post something from the manga to support your points, please remember to use spoiler tags.

Also, since the anime is based on the manga, the manga > the anime.

h0f5

02-16-2007, 02:43 PM

When ulquiorra commented on ichigo's fluctuating reiatsu, it depends on whether he was comparing it to himself or his released form. In unreleased form, it dosent surprise me that ogihci has a higher reiatsu. In released form however, thats a different story altogether.

koolspot

02-16-2007, 03:05 PM

Anime Evidence:

For those who says that the urahara's attack was his most powerful shikai attack, i will remind you that when ichigo and urahara were training, urahara fired an attack that was way to much powerful that the attack he fired to yami and he was not tired at all. He did not take ichigo seriuosly. When ulquiora stopped urahara's attack there was no big damage to any part of the place on they were fighting. However when urahara fought ichigo that "strong" attack destroy a lot of land. ("Strong" = Easily done by urahara).

Kyouka Suigetsu

02-16-2007, 07:33 PM

You must not have watched 114 then. When Yammy's and Urahara's attacks met, they replicated the exact same kind of damage that Ichigo's and his attack did far earlier in the series. Sandal Hat also took Kurosaki seriously because he himself implied that it would've been nasty if Getsuga Tenshou hit him.

The reasoning for Ulquiorra's attack not being strong is flawed as well. Urahara negated Ichigo's attack, which resulted in an explosion and a deep rut in the ground. Emoboy just flat out overpowered Urahara's special technique causing it to dissipate in its entirety. You can see this even clearer in the manga. His backhand snaps the wave in half, clearing a wide path right through the beam. It wasn't prolonged process like what was shown in the anime. Ulquiorra simply appeared and made the beam dissapear in that instance.

Steve2k

02-16-2007, 07:56 PM

i think Ulquiorra, cuz Ulquiorra said "we can't defeat them at your current level"

he was talking to Yami

and plus did you see how easily he deflected Urahara's attack and Ulquiorra wasn't even released yet

Guy

02-17-2007, 01:17 AM

Jay3205

02-17-2007, 01:31 AM

Ulquiorra is underrated... especially by anime viewers. Ulquiorra CARELESSLY blocked Urahara's shikai meant to kill Yammy. That means that at least in terms of shikai, Ulquiorra will beat Urahara. Although we don't know Urahara's bankai, we also don't know what other tricks Ulquiorra has up his sleeves. Seriously, if Ulquiorra can easily deflect Urahara's shikai, then Ulquiorra must have stronger powers...
I agree. As I said earlier, even if Urahara was holding back, Ulquiorra still blocked a shikai special technique using only his hand. Seeing as how Urahara is just a shinigami, he probably was probably using more than 60% of his strength (in shikai).

Also, remember that Ulquiorra said something along the lines of "You actually have to use your zanpakutou?" to Yammi who was fighting bankai Ichigo. This seems to imply that he at least could fight almost evenly with bankai Ichigo w/o using his zanpakutou. If he's strong enough to defend (not even win) against bankai Ichigo without using his own sword, then chances are he's stronger than Urahara.

Kyouka Suigetsu

02-17-2007, 05:36 AM

Also, remember that Ulquiorra said something along the lines of "You actually have to use your zanpakutou?" to Yammi who was fighting bankai Ichigo. This seems to imply that he at least could fight almost evenly with bankai Ichigo w/o using his zanpakutou. If he's strong enough to defend (not even win) against bankai Ichigo without using his own sword, then chances are he's stronger than Urahara.

What you've said is already given considering the performance of a lesser arrancar. *wink*

Draco

02-18-2007, 07:51 PM

Ulquorra because in ep. 115 hitsugaya pointed out that a vaste lorde is even stronger than a captain-class shinigami, and since Urahara's attack against Yami was negated by Ulquorra, that would probably mean Urahara would loose

Gecko4lif

02-20-2007, 04:45 PM

That was quite an intelligent move. Though he poorly reasoned his way out of the fact that he didn't really achieve his goal (ie.--kill the "trash"), he knew that the probability was high that he would lose to sandal hat and cat lady. Consider this:

1-- Urahara and Yoruichi have trained together since late youth, and are a very exceptional team.

2-- Urahara does not only possess unusual power, but he is a scientific mastermind and exceptional intellectual. Yoruichi also possesses good intelligence and has great skill, as witnessed by her quick and efficient pummelling of Yami, and, as another example, her defeat of Soi Fong by superiority of skill DESPITE HAVING BEEN INACTIVE FOR YEARS UPON YEARS compared to Fong, who has been an exceptional student since being put into favor by Yoruichi in their early to late teens, and having trained very hard and consistently for the proceeding years since Yoruichi left her, becoming a captain at a relatively young age.

3-- Ulq knows his partner is an idiot and doesn't possess the cunning and unusual height of skill that Urahara and Yoruichi have. As well, Ulq lacks the benefit of a great team, like his opponents had at their disposal. Therefore, Ulq would get his ass kicked in a mostly 2-on-1, regardless of how well he performs. And he knew that the advantage that he had from his opponents having to protect the "trash" would still not be nearly enough to tip the favor against opponents of this caliber and without a partner of his caliber.

4-- Even if he felt there was the remote possibility of a win, he took into account that it's not worth it, that the "trash" could be taken out at a more convenient time, because, though this "trash" is quite strong and has done very well in a short amount of time, he calculated with good justification that he is still not close to being a real threat to Aizen. I feel that Aizen understood why Ulq really chose the action he did, that the "trash" not being a good enough threat yet was just his way of saying "at least it's not nearly so bad a loss of a good opportunity because. . ." and Aizen thought that was sufficient.

Great reply ^

All of this in addition to that we have still yet to see urahara's bankai would would most likely be spectaular (and blood themed)

Oja777

02-20-2007, 06:17 PM

Urahara for the win, in the manga isn't ulquiorras hand bleeding after he deflects uraharas attack? We haven't really seen enough of the 2 to for it to be clear who would win but urahara was captain class and now he has some cool inventions that people haven't seen before that he can utilise in battles so that and his intellect will surprise ulquiorra even though he acts like he knows everything. Reading the manga though it seems any of the arrancar that use their true form are just in for a beating, suppose that is going to happen with the rest of them. Not like any good guys died yet..

Guy

02-21-2007, 12:53 AM

Wow, so many people continue to degrade Ulqy.

Ulquiorra deflected Urahara's shikai carelessly. This means that UNRELEASED Ulqy is at least competent enough to fight against shikai Urahara. Although we haven't seen Urahara's bankai, we haven't seen much of Ulqy either.

If Urahara and Yoruichi were so strong, then why did they just let Ulqy and Yami escape? Yami was half-dead anyways. Simple, because Urahara and Yoruichi KNOW that even if the two team up against Ulquiorra, Ulqy will beat the living daylights out of both Urahara AND Yoruichi.

Decado

02-21-2007, 01:21 AM

Reading the manga though it seems any of the arrancar that use their true form are just in for a beating, suppose that is going to happen with the rest of them. Not like any good guys died yet..
:whatevah:

Those Arrancar that "released" (aka Bankai) were PRIVARON.
FORMER Espada. They're not even good enough to be in the top ten, and you think an Espada Released could be beaten easily.

Once more, lets look at it through sense and logic.

Grimmjaw (6th Espada) was enough for Bankai Ichigo. By enough I mean he would win WITHOUT RELEASING.
Secondly, even when Ichigo went Vaizard, Grimm was still on par with him with only one arm.
Then he's bombarded by another Vaizard (shinji) and Rukia's shikai attack.

Now on top of all this, Ulquiorra out flash-steps EVERYONE there, and no one (bankai+vaizard ichigo, Vaizard shinji nor rukia) could sense him before he already had his hand on Grimm's hilt.

Ulquiorra wasn't trying. He hasn't even unsheathed his zanp yet, let alone release it. He's knocked away Urahara's shikai attack effortlessly. Albeit he may have drawn some blood, but comparatively, you think Urahara could block a CERO with that power with only a hand?? Doub it. He had to use his zanp.

Not saying Ulquiorra would necessarily win, but come on. take into account Ulquiorra's current level of power over the others, and then see him fighting all out with his zanp

And then on top of that, he has his Release, aka bankai.

reiko2

02-21-2007, 01:35 AM

I agreed ... Urahara is more smarter and had more experience than Ulqui :)

Kyouka Suigetsu

02-21-2007, 02:32 AM

Decado, there's no point in even trying. Fanboys will post the same inane drivel over and over no matter how much evidence you dump on them. Ulquiorra has shown more power in one hand than Urahara's shikai, but they still aren't convinced. The translations from the manga also indicate that he was confident of beating both Kisuke and Yoruichi.

Oja77, Ulquiorra's hand is completely fine. You can clearly see in the panel that he has incurred no injury from Urahara's attack. It only gets covered with blood when he hits Yammy with it who is covered in his own blood. Of course, that was censored in the anime.

Decado

02-21-2007, 03:41 AM

finally.. someone who gets it... Thankyou Suigetsu... -_-

Grimmjaw (6th Espada) was enough for Bankai Ichigo. By enough I mean he would win WITHOUT RELEASING.
Secondly, even when Ichigo went Vaizard, Grimm was still on par with him with only one arm.
Then he's bombarded by another Vaizard (shinji) and Rukia's shikai attack.
and one important thing i forgot to mention.
Even after all this, Grimmjaw still hadn't released. So the release at this stage would obviously have wiped rukia, Ichigo and gone close to killing Shinji due to their wounds already.
So what would this say about Ulquiorra's release when:

Ulquiorra out flash-steps EVERYONE there, and no one (bankai+vaizard ichigo, Vaizard shinji nor rukia) could sense him before he already had his hand on Grimm's hilt.

sniperz

02-21-2007, 03:47 AM

think it this way, its the same as naruto..

naruto surpassed kakashi with sharingan... (but tats after his like beating up a S RANK NInja)

ichigo in the other hand still dun achieve victorious over the 10th espadas.but from wat i see. ichigo can surpassed uruhara (tats the same as naruto's story)

it does. coz it's like generation revolving ;D

uraharakisuke153

02-24-2007, 02:53 AM

I think urahara is very cool, and not even ulquiora can kick his butt.

THANKS!!!! ^_^

Decado

02-24-2007, 03:56 AM

Oja77, Ulquiorra's hand is completely fine. You can clearly see in the panel that he has incurred no injury from Urahara's attack. It only gets covered with blood when he hits Yammy with it who is covered in his own blood. Of course, that was censored in the anime.
that's correct. To everyone who said Ulquiorra's hand was damaged look at the panels properly

- He dissipates (not just deflect, but dissipates) Urahara's Benihime, with the OUTSIDE of his RIGHT hand

- His right hand comes by his neck, and you see the OUTSIDE unscathed.

- after he hits Yammi, his hand is bleeding.

uraharakisuke153

02-26-2007, 04:51 AM

Urahara is probably in the top 5 of strongest shinigami, if not the strongest. I believe that although Ulq is strong, Urahara would have a way to win.

Decado

02-26-2007, 07:15 AM

Urahara is probably in the top 5 of strongest shinigami, if not the strongest. I believe that although Ulq is strong, Urahara would have a way to win.
Probabaly?

He definitely IS one of the top five espada

as i just said up there as well, read this for proof:

Grimmjaw (6th Espada) was enough for Bankai Ichigo. By enough I mean he would win WITHOUT RELEASING.
Secondly, even when Ichigo went Vaizard, Grimm was still on par with him with only one arm.
Then he's bombarded by another Vaizard (shinji) and Rukia's shikai attack.

Now on top of all this, Ulquiorra out flash-steps EVERYONE there, and no one (bankai+vaizard ichigo, Vaizard shinji nor rukia) could sense him before he already had his hand on Grimm's hilt.

Ulquiorra wasn't trying. He hasn't even unsheathed his zanp yet, let alone release it. He's knocked away Urahara's shikai attack effortlessly. Albeit he may have drawn some blood, but comparatively, you think Urahara could block a CERO with that power with only a hand?? Doubt it. He had to use his zanp.

Even after all this, Grimmjaw still hadn't released. So the release at this stage would obviously have wiped rukia, Ichigo and gone close to killing Shinji due to their wounds already.

Not saying Ulquiorra would necessarily win, but come on. take into account Ulquiorra's current level of power over the others, and then see him fighting all out with his zanp

Hiyuu Tatsuma

02-26-2007, 03:38 PM

i think Urahara to win
as for he got his banki in 3 days so i would say that he stronger

Gecko4lif

02-26-2007, 08:26 PM

i agree that ul would win in a fight with urhara if it came to brute power HOWEVER it have been hinted the Urahar's bankai would be the type to decrease the power of the oppent or kill instantly

Factor in that with the fact that he always has an invention up his sleeve i would give the fight to ura

unless ul cn fight a way to stop his bankai ...

theblack_dragon

02-26-2007, 09:03 PM

Probabaly?
He definitely IS one of the top five espada
as i just said up there as well, read this for proof:

hmmmmmmmmmm i must say you got some good strong points there but you cant leave out your imagination here i mean yes no one sense him with the flash steps but anyone can use a flash step to achieve soemthing for example in the fillers maki i believe his name was sneaked into sole society and no one sensed him so i cant put that into consideration when looking at the fight. Ulquiorra yes is power and i agree he stop urahara's shikia without much effort but the man was just showing yami he gcould do it to i doubt even if yami had got the attack he would have died. basically we have not seen the urahara's bankai one could only imagin it and know what tricks and powers it has cause you know how he is he is a genius
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/382/vaizard8rt.jpg

Jay3205

02-27-2007, 12:22 AM

If Urahara is so powerful, why did Ulquiorra imply he could beat both Urahara and Yoruichi at the same time. Although Urahara still does have bankai, Ulquiorra still has his release, which kinda cancels out Urahara's bankai. Seeing as how Ulq. already displayed more power than Urahara has, I'd say he woul win.

Decado

02-27-2007, 12:28 AM

hmmmmmmmmmm i must say you got some good strong points there but you cant leave out your imagination here i mean yes no one sense him with the flash steps but anyone can use a flash step to achieve soemthing for example in the fillers maki i believe his name was sneaked into sole society and no one sensed him so i cant put that into consideration when looking at the fight. Ulquiorra yes is power and i agree he stop urahara's shikia without much effort but the man was just showing yami he gcould do it to i doubt even if yami had got the attack he would have died. basically we have not seen the urahara's bankai one could only imagin it and know what tricks and powers it has cause you know how he is he is a genius

Fristly, as I've said before: YOU CANNOT INCLUDE FILLERS IN ARGUMENTS

It's not real Bleach. That's why almost every1 hates them. because it makes NO sense
Kubo Tite did NOT make fillers, so anything Bleach related cannot be based off them

Thus my argument for his flash step still stands on a higher pedestel than maki's fugglied entrance. Btw, he entered because of his shikai's ability anyway.

And yes, I'm not saying Ulquiorra would win... there's just a lot more to consider...esp since Urahara's got his bankai.

theblack_dragon

02-27-2007, 02:15 AM

Fristly, as I've said before: YOU CANNOT INCLUDE FILLERS IN ARGUMENTS

It's not real Bleach. That's why almost every1 hates them. because it makes NO sense
Kubo Tite did NOT make fillers, so anything Bleach related cannot be based off them

Thus my argument for his flash step still stands on a higher pedestel than maki's fugglied entrance. Btw, he entered because of his shikai's ability anyway.

And yes, I'm not saying Ulquiorra would win... there's just a lot more to consider...esp since Urahara's got his bankai.

hmmmmmmmmmm you do have a point there but i just cant accept the fact that although they are fillers that they have no baring on the anime you gotta bring some evidence to me so i can see your point more clear

hey good convo man

Decado

02-27-2007, 06:22 AM

lmao, yeh.

My last argument answered your current question:

i just cant accept the fact that although they are fillers that they have no baring on the anime
Maki entered because of his shikai's ability. Thus, that doesn't compare to any flash steps,

Therefore, Ulquiorra's 'flashstep' (sonido) , is totally seperate from that, and thus my argument still holds, that he would be of a greater power than everyone there.

Evanesque

02-27-2007, 09:19 AM

I think Ulqy might win the battle considering the fact that Urahara said in the anime that a vaste lord is at an even higher level than a captain...

However since we haven't seen Urahara's bankai, it is possible that he might be able to defeat Ulqy but of course he'll be heavily wounded ...

Anyway, I vote for Ulqy

Avent

02-27-2007, 09:48 AM

You all think power>intelligence? how ignorant......

Decado

02-27-2007, 10:11 AM

You think Ulquiorra is not intelligent? Cheh.

Tho in the end, when Urahara wins, it will be due solely to his bankai's power.
And remember, this is Bleach.

h0f5

02-27-2007, 10:26 AM

intelligence over power? Thats valid, but not if the power is overwhelming. Mayuri is smart, but he can do nothing against ishida, who defeat his whole bankai in one hit.

Tho i still think urahara will win. HIs bankai has yet to be released, and given how he takes yammi with a piece of cake, depending on ulqi's position, it might not be so hard. Its still not known how ulquiorra sneaked into ss anyway. The menos also created a hole in ss, but that dosent necessarily mean they are strong.

Decado

02-27-2007, 10:29 AM

Ulquiorra didn't sneak into SS........ u mean Maki right?

they said he used his shikai's ability (to bend light)

h0f5

02-27-2007, 10:36 AM

oh ya...

shit forgot my spoiler tags... when he went to nab orihime

but nevermind... its out of point anyway.

It all depends to see how good ulquiorra is in battle then. His arm was bleeding from hitting yammi's ierro ( either that or his arm penetrated yammi's ierro and got the blood from yammi ). Depending on either situation, ulquiorra would either be very strong or very weak.

but the anime is definitely not good comparison. Yasmmi looked relatively unscathed after ichigo's attack in the anime. He was all bleeding and crap in the manga. All goes to prove that yammi is ridiculously weak.

Oja777

02-27-2007, 04:45 PM

Urahara is a good guy so he would win of course, the odds of good guys dead to bad guys dead. Not rating on power just that how often do they die.. come on.

Setsuna Ai

02-28-2007, 12:45 AM

Well we haven't seen Urahara's full potential (i.e. bankai) so I don't know. But I imagine it would be Urahara since we saw him kick Yammi's ass with only in his shikai form plus a few tricks of his own. I know Yammi is extremely weak against Ulquiorra but the fact that he only uses his shikai so far is pretty..impressive.

Decado

02-28-2007, 05:15 AM

yeah, but did u see wat ulquiorra did to his shikai's attack? he didn't even use his sword. just his hand, which wasn't even injured a bit.

Urahara is a good guy so he would win of course, the odds of good guys dead to bad guys dead. Not rating on power just that how often do they die.. come on.
that's not really wat this thread is about.. since they may never even fight at all.

Oja777

02-28-2007, 05:39 PM

good guys always win in bleach or get injured and become stronger, they don't die.

animalistic

02-28-2007, 11:09 PM

another one of these impossible to know battles, but if i had to say then i would say ulquiorra, this is simply based on that he is the strongest lvl of menos plus he's an arrancar, plus he deflected urahara's attack with his bare hands, who knows wut he can do with his shikai

AmnesiaI

03-01-2007, 03:40 AM

refer to avatar hehe. Ul would own urah easy.

Jay3205

03-01-2007, 04:06 AM

Saying the Urahara wins cause he's a good guy isn't argument. He isn't the main character, and he is not improving his skills through training. He is simply the mysterious yet powerful trainer, who will eventually be surpassed by his trainee, Ichigo. He's the Genkai of Bleach, only more powerful.

Anyways, Ulquiorra implied he would win against Urahara and Yoruichi. Ulquiorra has shown more strength than Urahara ever has. Until Urahara does something new and very powerful or comes up w/ a ridiculously powerful invention, signs are all pointing to Ulquiorra being stronger.

Oja777

03-02-2007, 10:38 AM

The guy made hogyoku.. and inflatable gigai or whatever they were he used to fight yami he doesn't have hieros or whatever it is in his skin like arrancar but he can summon a blood mist shield and nullify an attack of cero, so what he uses a sword. Ulquiorra says that the odds are terrible for them to win when they have to protect the injured orihime and ichigo aswell as fight him at the same time.

Oja777

03-02-2007, 10:40 AM

sorry not lettin me edit but i didn't mean blood mist can nullify cero, his attack from benihime and his ability to use exactly the right amount of power whereas arrancar just mold spirit pressure over their skin to nullify damage so wow like byakuya says no matter how great the defense a greater offense will eventually break through..

koolspot

03-02-2007, 03:49 PM

The people forget everyday that ulquiora himself said: ¨They are far beyond our level¨ Talking about youruichi and Urahara in the manga, but in the anime the dialogue changed just for give the fans some reasons to doubt. Another part that is changed is when grimmjow talk to ulquiora when ulquiora gave his report to aizen, in the manga he said: ¨You would do the same if you were in front of the cat woman and the sandal guy¨. So if ulquiora himself says he would lose, i don´t know how some people still say that ulq would win...

Habanero

03-02-2007, 07:22 PM

In the manga he said to Yammi:"They're far beyond YOUR current level".

Gecko4lif

03-05-2007, 09:51 PM

yeah, but did u see wat ulquiorra did to his shikai's attack? he didn't even use his sword. just his hand, which wasn't even injured a bit.

that's not really wat this thread is about.. since they may never even fight at all.

we cant really say who would win because ul blocked a hit ment for a much weaker opponet a much much weaker one

we have yet to see either of there true strengths but i would egde it to urahara simply because he always has an invention up his slevee (could be a second orb of distortion lol)

Kyouka Suigetsu

03-05-2007, 10:00 PM

The attack he launched had the same power as the attack Yammy used to Yoruichi. He merely did it a second time to prove it to the big oaf. Going by the expression on catwoman's face, she would have been killed or seriously hurt by that cero. An attack capable of doing that to her of all people and one equal to it is anything but weak.

h0f5

03-06-2007, 01:57 PM

I think one of the reason why yoruichi couldnt dodge was because even if she herself could dodge, orihime would die. I think urahara has made it clear that he intentionally limited his attack against yammi so it would just negate the attack, and not overpower it because it would harm people around him.

.Socio

03-06-2007, 05:21 PM

I'm not sure about this, it is very hard to say as if Urahara was forced into bankai we don'nt know if he was awesome or lame, I'd say it is about even, though I would love to see this fight.

Oja777

03-06-2007, 09:29 PM

In the manga he said to Yammi:"They're far beyond YOUR current level".

yep.. an then he said "WE'LL lose unless..." we escape, although sounds like ulquiorra doesn't really fight unless he's directly ordered to or if he ain't fighting trash and seems like he just has yami fight all his battles for him. Maybe he is pretty damn strong to be like that but i think urahara could hit a lot harder with benihime than a cero if he wanted to and i suppose anyone would be surprised that an attack of equal power to cero got dissipated by ulq's hand but that doesn't mean that was urahara's most powerful attack. Shinigami don't have hieros like espada and that's the only difference in negating each other's attacks.