Zaraki's Zanpakutou after his defeat

[DaHolyCow]

Anyone know whether Zaraki managed to find out about his zanpakutou's name? Because his zanpakutou broke after fighting Ichigo, and it was perfectly fine in the fight with Tousen.

Can Asauchi's "Heal" themselves? Or do the shinigamis need to know their names in order for them to "regenerate"?

[Jinchuu]

Probably he has learned it's name, otherwise to repair his sword he'd need a blacksmith and I don't think there are any in the Court of Pure Souls.

[farseerdk]

if he learned its name, why didn't he use his shikai against tousen?

[SumpfFuchs]

he kept saying that the fight is boreing, so chances are that he never really had the need to

[cavignone]

i think any soul slayer can fix it self, it just takes time. ken-chans sword was wrapped in banages so it could be in perfect shape wihta shape edge or it could still be in 2 pieces, till it unwrapped we not know.
i believe(theroy here) the soul slayer fixes it based on the user spirt force as well he understanding of his sword. sence he enver thought he swrod as anything but i tool, it been damaged alot and barely ever fixed itself,hance the larger jagges edge of his sword(unless that it normal form then idk) now if he started to think of his sword as a partner it might start repairing it self to a noteable degree.

[hasuke]

Cavignone has it pretty much right. Zanpakutou are able to heal themselves, whether they're am asauchi or released.

My theory is they borrow reiatsu from their wielder to mend their shattered blades together (and replace missing bits), considering they're directly linked to their weilder.

[cavignone]

cool hasuke, btw nice pic berserk an't it ? guts and the leard of halk wings right?

well it make sence sine they part of teh user spirt his pspirt power would be sued in it repairs.

[Sandal Hat]

Remember when renji fought ichigo and then had to heal? His soul slayer says it healed and then waits on renji to finish.

[cavignone]

i do remember that sandal hat but i wanted to avoid bring that up since his was a released version. :-)

[Sandal Hat]

I was just confirming that released soul slayers regain there powers and that also proves that ones that aren't release can not regenerate

[cavignone]

hmm idk about that sandal hat, other wise low lvl death gods, would end up breaking their swords and they run out of them sooner or later. they do not have a endless supply of them after all. and far as we can tell no one makes swords in SS.
i'm sure if ichgo would of wait back in his training to release his sankai, if he waited awhile his sword would of been fixed(might taken a day or 3.)

if only release swrods fixed themselves to many students, squads and teh like be weaponless by this time(like 11th if they train alot i be 99% sure they destroyed their far share of blades)

[Jinchuu]

Sandal Has a point there. Zabimaru was at second stage while it was healing. And non-ranked shinigami might get a sword from supply or smt. or maybe there are blacksmiths out of the court.

[cavignone]

well i think i said i could been wrong before lol. the swords everyone got they all seem to ahve sprits jsut some forgot/lost theirs names becoming teh namesless comman blade. nameless does not mine it got no sprit anymore and should beable to repair it self,thought at a slow rate(no break in ahft and full repair in 10 sec deals)

i did not think his blade was in it sankai form i think it was showing that as a illuson while it avatar was talking, seen as the avatar fades out the swrod was left in it defualt mode, kind of help point out the baboon/snake was the sword's avatar to anyone that did not get it off the bat.

[Sandal Hat]

I dont think you understood what i posted cavignone and anyways the academy students aren't using their own soul slayers because they have to gain more spirit power and train.The acedamy students are just strong spirits that have potential to becoming a death god. Ichigo was already powerful so when he awakened his powers he already got his soul slayer. and notice, while ichigo had his soul slayer it never healed because he couldn't release it.Once he got his shi kai it healed up after every battle.

EDIT: i missed youir above post becaus i was typing to slow so if i said anything redundant then forgive me lol

[cavignone]

true but at the time ichgo was only a death god fora whole min kind of limited time for it to fix itself. maybe they explain it or we see a lower class death god with a sword repaired itself, who knows. i not read the comic pass where i am now(i watch anime first and read till i reach where i am and stop)

as a side note i think what matter teh most if the bond between it owner and soul slayer and teh state of his heart. stronger teh pwerson and heart the stronger teh blade and faster repair times.(ichgo kind of a bad expampal of this cuase he keep jumping huge amounts of pwoer and lvls, he not typical of death god. he has had his swords broken 2 times and soon as he got the heart,soul and reslove focued his blade always fixed itself on the spot, maybe other can do taht too, thought reji took a few hours/days to fix itself)

edit No problem sandal hat lol same ehre maybe i finished this right after reading you last post too lol

[diputz42]

back to the original question of this post. if only zampakuto's that have achieved shikai can be healed, then zaraki has no problem because like ichigo, his soul slayer is never sealed, its on 24 hour shikai. the only difference is zaraki doesnt know his sword's name so he can't achieve bankai.

also, the only time zangetsu's shikai ever "broke" was when ichigo was training for bankai with zangetsu himself in which he broke like 200 alternate versions or fragments of shikai.

[Sandal Hat]

Ichigos sword never repaired itself the whole time he was a death god and didn't know his slayers name It was also a long time he had his soul slayer and it should have healed itself in my opinion it took renji's only a few hours or so.

[Samiizz]

Diputz42... Ichigo's sword broke once only.. against ken-chan..
in the training for Ban Kai.. he was searching for his sword.. but Zangetsu was hiding between blades that were fragments of Ichigo's spirit..
so the blades that broke werent Zangetsu..
even Zangetsu said that there is only one of him between all of these swords..

[DaHolyCow]

Zaraki once said that he didnt know the anme of his zanpakutou....... If he doesnt know it, how did he release it in its shinkai form?

Ichigo's zanpakutou was once sealed (in the form of a rather large asauchi), and the only way he released it was when he cried out zangetsu's name during the battle with urahara. Now its true zangetsu doesn't seal itself, but my point is in order to perform shinkai u need to at least know the name of ur zanpakutou, then shout out the incantation to release it.

If only shinkai's can heal then its obvious that zaraki has learnt the name of his zanpakutou. Remember when byakuya broke Ichigo's asauchi? It never recovered even though days had passed. It was still a broken sword, as seen when he was fighting Urahara. The only time it healed was after he released his shinkai by calling zangetsu's name.

[ultimate]

i think the soul slayers fix themselves depending on the user
someone mentioned that renji's soul slayer broke but it healed itself later and told renji that it was waiting for him but i think wat zabimaru meant was if renji was ready to fight again, not whether he was healed or not so i think the soul slayers fix themselves with the user's spirit power
oh yeh, i didnt think ichigo's asauchi really healed, i think it turned into the shikai stage... btw i dont think that was ichigo's soul slayer when it was in the asauchi stage, it was more of rukia's and was only really huge cos of his spirit power being poured into it like when uryuu touched ichigo's soul slayer and his spirit bow became huge as well

[Samiizz]

that is a really interesting theory..
and it might be true

[cavignone]

Ichigos sword never repaired itself the whole time he was a death god and didn't know his slayers name It was also a long time he had his soul slayer and it should have healed itself in my opinion it took renji's only a few hours or so.

that is true but at the only time ichgo sword been broken before it was relased(sankai). he was just a spirt not a death god, so then his soul slayer did not excist at that time so it could not heal it self. once ichgo beacame death god again he released it in like 10 mins after getting his soul slayer back. so his soul slayer did not ahve any time(like a few hours) to repair it self.

[Sandal Hat]

Ichigos sword broke when byakuya snapped in two. It never healed after that.The poiint im trying to make is that you have to know the name of your soul slayer to release it and then once you release it and it goes back to its reg form it regenerates.Basically you have to have a relationship with it or its just a regular sword.

i didn't understand your above post very well because it looked like you typed it in a hurry but, the part where you say he was just a spirit not a death god, ichigo has always turned into his death god form when he was knocked out of is body except for when his powers were destroyed and he had to gain them back.

[cavignone]

sorry about that i was abit sleepy at that point(plus at work beware boss monsters) lol. i try to clear it up abit here. byakuya snapped ichgos sword, then then hits ichgos soul sleep and chain link spots, removing his death gods powers. ok so from that point out ichgo no longer a death god and has no soul slayer anymore.he just a plus spirt now. he goes through the training to regain his soul sleep and chain link, then the shattered shaft. he becomes a death god againand regains his soul slayer sword. how ever since it been 5-7 days time when he was just a plus, his sword could not repair it self for a few reasons.
1. he no longer a death god at that point so the sword does not exsist anymore
2. his spirt force was at near nothing so nothing to spare on repairs.
3, once he regained his power thre was no rest/heal up time so it could repair itself, ichgo jumped right in to combat with sandal-hat and started stage 3 of his training to gain sankai.

edit: it true sandal hat the death gods powers where rukias, how ever at that time they the only death god power he had access to. and with out them his soul slayer cesited to be till his where awakend.
and ichgo avart said it before. he been calling out to ichgo it just ichgo could not/would not hear him.

[Sandal Hat]

I agree that ichigo had little time after he gained his powers back but the powers that byakuya destroyed were rukia's, Urahara states this.

[ultimate]

if the powers were rukia, then ichigo was kinda using rukia's spirit powers which included her soul slayer, he couldnt have found out the name if he wanted to cos they werent his shinigami powers, the soul slayer never got damaged until that night when byakuya broke it in half so for ur soul slayer to repair itself i think, u gotta have enough spirit power so the soul slayer can heal and the spirit powers have to be urs i think including knowing the name, which is gained when u go to shikai stage

[Sandal Hat]

Ichigos powers were awakened by rukias power to turn him into a death god,sort of like a key. Byakuya just destroyed rukias powers and not ichigo's because he didn't think ihchigo had any.

[cavignone]

then if he had death god power why bother go through the first 2 stages of his training? he could of skipped that and headed right to sankai training. ichgo did have his owns powers, however when chain link and soul sleep are damaged majory your powers go dorment, and if they complety destroyed then you cease to be a death go anymore cuase you spirt power falls to 0 you revert to being just a normal plus. unless you can hve them repaired(which was the point of ichgo's train rukia's bother stab the part that held rukia's power not ichgo's so his chain link and soul sleep still intact barely but badly damged, the shated shaft part was to get him to dig down deep insde his own soul to find his power, he had them but no access till he found them) at witch time you return being a death god once more.


so from when rukias brother stabbed ichgo to when he finsihed the shatted shaft ichgo was just a plus, no longer a death god, even if his own death power where dorment.

the sword and robes are both part of a death gods power. and you notice after his soul sleep and chain link where attacked he had neither of these items. they did not excise anymore. once his power was recoved,found and awakened he got both back bring them back to the spirt world.

[DaHolyCow]

He had shinigami potential but the fact is that his powers weren't awakened yet. The powers he used were Rukia's, but that doesnt include his zanpakutou. If his zanpakutou was Rukia's and it only became huge because of absorbing his reiatsu, then it should have reverted to normal once he isnt holding it (jus like ishida's bow when it wasnt touching ichigo's zanpakutou). But it remained that size even though Ichigo wasn't holding it.

If u said Byakuya snapped Rukia's zanpakutou and not Ichigo's, watch the episode/read the chapter where he tries to regain zangetsu (chapter 73). The sword he pulls out is the broken version of unreleased zangetsu. If, like u said, the sword Byakuya broke was Rukia's, then the sword Ichigo pulls out of the box should have been a new asauchi, since his zanpakutou, like u said, wasn't harmed by Byakuya.

So since he pulled out the broken sword, it means that Ichigo was wielding Zangetsu all along. If it had any healing powers, then it should have regenerated. Even if he was unconcious, it could recover (just like Renji's). Also, u'll see that Ichigo cant block any of Benihime's strikes, Benihime slices through Zangetsu easily as though Zangetsu isnt blocking at all. This shows that Asauchi's have almost no protection againts released zanpakutous, and should have no regenerating abilities altogether.

[ultimate]

ichigo already had shinigami powers before rukia accidently transferred all her powers to him... ichigo's powers were kinda "awakened" by rukia's powers... ichigo was using that soul slayer so it makes sense since that the soul slayer was huge cos of his spirit power pouring into it since he was using rukia's powers... during his first fight with renji, he was using rukia's powers still but they increased cos of his own spirit powers, he was sorta adding his own spirit power with rukias but he was using rukias shinigami powers mostly

when ichigo is getting his own shinigami powers, the soul slayer he pulls out is broken (not the one outta the box, we dont see that one i think, correct me if i am wrong though... most likely his asauchi...) cos he almost turned into a hollow probably, then he learns his soul slayer's name and is able to release it into the shikai stage, which it kinda automatically heals... there was also a scene where ichigo just defeated the bald dude ikkaku and ichigo learns that since ikkaku went unconscious his soul slayer went automatically back to asauchi form

oh yeh i agree with u about that asauchis cannot block shikai stage soul slayers

[jonat3]

The sword Ichigo was using when he got rukia's powers was Zangetsu. Only the form was different, because rukia's power was mixed in.

As for Zaraki's sword, its in full time shikai mode, just like Ichigo.

[Sandal Hat]

The sword Ichigo was using when he got rukia's powers was Zangetsu. Only the form was different, because rukia's power was mixed in.

As for Zaraki's sword, its in full time shikai mode, just like Ichigo.
Did you read any of the other pages at all? Zaraki couldn't have made it go into shikai without knowing its name, its one of the basic rules of this whole series.

As for rukia i think her powers helped awakened ichigos powers when they transferred which explains the size which is why his soul slayers is the same size once he learns how to awaken his powers by himself

[jonat3]

Did you read any of the other pages at all? Zaraki couldn't have made it go into shikai without knowing its name, its one of the basic rules of this whole series.

As for rukia i think her powers helped awakened ichigos powers when they transferred which explains the size which is why his soul slayers is the same size once he learns how to awaken his powers by himself

I did read a few pages. I was already aware of this point before i even started reading the thread. However, i think you only really need to know the name for bankai. Most shinigami probably need to know the name to gain the shikai too, but Zaraki is an exception. People who have an extreme talent for spirit power can gain shikai without knowing the name.

The combination of chapter 120 and 109 practically confirm that Zaraki's sword is in it's released state.

[Human Zangetzu]

Zaraki's sword is not released. I found some certain proof reguarding his shikai form as well.

Watch the ending of episode 28, when Zaraki starts to fight those bandits in the field. Watch his sword. It turns into blue energy and then all his opponents collapse a second later. Lightning anyone?

[Sandal Hat]

I did read a few pages. I was already aware of this point before i even started reading the thread. However, i think you only really need to know the name for bankai. Most shinigami probably need to know the name to gain the shikai too, but Zaraki is an exception. People who have an extreme talent for spirit power can gain shikai without knowing the name.

The combination of chapter 120 and 109 practically confirm that Zaraki's sword is in it's released state.
Bankai doesn't have a name,they just say Bankai.How can you just make the assumption that people who have an extreme talent for spirit power can gain shikai without knowing the name especially when it can't and hasn't been done

[jonat3]

Bankai doesn't have a name,they just say Bankai.How can you just make the assumption that people who have an extreme talent for spirit power can gain shikai without knowing the name especially when it can't and hasn't been done

It can and has been done. By Zaraki. Let me explain why you need the name for bankai. To achieve bankai, you have to be able to know your sword inside and out, so knowing the name is a must. People who can't work together with their swords, will never be able to attain bankai. Working together with a sword also implies knowing it's name.

As for the genral rule that one needs to know the name for their shikai, this rule has never been explicitely stated. It has been assumed because of many examples. I agree that most shinigami probably need to learn the name for their shikai. However, every rule has an exception (you often see that concept in manga too). Like i said, chapter 120 and chapter 109 clearly demonstrate that Zaraki is the sole exception.

On another note, it might be possible that Ichigo himself also had a shikai sword since the beginning. Only the shape was different, because rukia's power was mixed in. This is hypothetical though.

[cavignone]

So since he pulled out the broken sword, it means that Ichigo was wielding Zangetsu all along. If it had any healing powers, then it should have regenerated. Even if he was unconcious, it could recover (just like Renji's). Also, u'll see that Ichigo cant block any of Benihime's strikes, Benihime slices through Zangetsu easily as though Zangetsu isnt blocking at all. This shows that Asauchi's have almost no protection againts released zanpakutous, and should have no regenerating abilities altogether.

well one thing sandal hat said to ichgo at that time was while his woul slayer was large it had no spirt power in it, it just a big fluffy thing that look like a sword, that it fine vs hollows.(ok my work nor word for word right but should be close)

renji was a death god while he was passed out so his swrod still excited and he had the power to do so.
ichgo when he passed out after rukias brothers attack, he reverted to a puls so nearly 0 spirt power and no sowrd which could heal. it be like saying i could fix a meal with no food around to cook.(kind of hard to do huh?)

thought ichgo vs ken-chan(his had never been released) he was easly able to block ichgos sankai for a most of their fight.

[Sandal Hat]

When i read your post it sounded like you said that you need to know the name for bankai (the way it sounded was like you needed to know the bankai's name).Moving on, Shikai means half-release so it is probably possible to skip this step and go straight to bankai(which means full release) but only if you have completed the second step to bankai which is shikai and you have to know its name for that, which sort of like skipping a step in making something. Also how do you explain zaraki's sword being in shikai mode at all times when ofcourse you have to atleast know its name even if you don't have to say it.Another example is ichigo,when he learned zangetsu's name and released it it never reverted back to its original form.

[jonat3]

When i read your post it sounded like you said that you need to know the name for bankai (the way it sounded was like you needed to know the bankai's name).Moving on, Shikai means half-release so it is probably possible to skip this step and go straight to bankai(which means full release) but only if you have completed the second step to bankai which is shikai and you have to know its name for that, which sort of like skipping a step in making something. Also how do you explain zaraki's sword being in shikai mode at all times when ofcourse you have to atleast know its name even if you don't have to say it.Another example is ichigo,when he learned zangetsu's name and released it it never reverted back to its original form.

Ichigo's sword is also in shikai form all the time. Knowing the name probably helped him materialize the sword. But like i said. Zaraki is an exception from the general rule. You seem to think that a rule is absolute. Not so. Almost every rule has an exception, a concept often used in manga.
Normally we would have tought that you needed to shout the name to use the shikai ability. Prior to chapter 140 (the fight between Renji and Byakuya) this was the general excepted rule. Renji proved that even that rule had an exception.

[Uruhara]

I was just confirming that released soul slayers regain there powers and that also proves that ones that aren't release can not regenerate
Is that so? You know this how?

[ultimate]

i am not sure whether asauchis can repair themselves or not cos the only asauchi i've seen been broken was ichigo's (if there is another, just say so)... and yeh shikai soul slayers can heal themselves, i think with the user's spirit power... i dont think it is confirmed whether asauchis can heal themselves or not and just cos released soul slayers can repair themselves doesnt prove asauchis cannot... i dont see how it proves that unless someone can show evidence of it if it happened in anime/manga then... too bad for asauchis =P

[farseerdk]

everyone here (except jonat) is speaking as if this whole zanpakto thing is totally set in stone. notice how urahara calls benhime's name whenever he releases it, and also when he uses an ability? yet byakuya simply says "chire" (we dont actually know the name of his sword even though he shikai's and bankai's many times). Also, ichigo doesn't have to say anything to fire that blast (watever it's called). ukitake and kyouraku chant long peoms to release their shikai.

the bottom line? there are no solid rules about zanpakto's. some unrealeased one's can regenerate based on the user. some shikai require the the calling of a name, others dont. some have a differnt form in shikai, while others are abilities based off the sword (like tousen's).

oh and the other asauchi that was broken was zaraki's (though its debatable if thats a shikai or not, if it is, he doesn't know it because ichigo says after laerning how much zaraki loves to fight and is giving him a chance "so thats why you do not release your soul slayer").

[ultimate]

oh ok... so if zarakis soul slayer was an asauchi, then yeh asauchi can repair themselves... if it isnt then it is still a mystery... though i think zarakis soul slayer was an asauchi cos u need to know the name of ur soul slayer to release it to shikai stage and zaraki said his soul slayer had no name

[jonat3]

oh ok... so if zarakis soul slayer was an asauchi, then yeh asauchi can repair themselves... if it isnt then it is still a mystery... though i think zarakis soul slayer was an asauchi cos u need to know the name of ur soul slayer to release it to shikai stage and zaraki said his soul slayer had no name

Like i said, that rule was never specifically stated. And chapter 120 and 109 are pretty definite on the state of his sword. Also every rule has an exception, should that rule even exist.

[Sandal Hat]

Is that so? You know this how?Because normal soul slayers are normal swords that when released gain their powers also if zaraki's soul slayer was released then why doesn't it repair itself like ichigos.Forget all the rules and stuff just take in everything you see from the show and look at the facts that are given to you. Both Renjis soul slayer and Ichigos sword regenerated after they were broken./quit trying to make up new rules to fit your theory to make it correct.

[cavignone]

well i seen or saw 3 swrods break and bene repaired so far.
ichgo(released),renji(released version) and zarakis (unreleased) and far as i can tell all 3 have fixed them selves. unless i mis saw/read zarakis sword then i'm mistaken.

so, so far either type can fix it self, from what been seen far as i can tell.

[Sandal Hat]

Zaraki's sword has never healed,you can tell because of all of the abuse on the cutting edge of the sword lol

[cavignone]

ichgo broke the thing in 2 before, but last time i saw it it was one pice again.

i'm starting to think the broken edge of zarakis sword might be it real normal form it never had a smooth edge. that as soon as it was made ti always had the jagged edge to it. a symbol of his love of fighting maybe also to give the other guy a clue he in trouble? lol

[Uruhara]

Because normal soul slayers are normal swords that when released gain their powers also if zaraki's soul slayer was released then why doesn't it repair itself like ichigos.Forget all the rules and stuff just take in everything you see from the show and look at the facts that are given to you. Both Renjis soul slayer and Ichigos sword regenerated after they were broken./quit trying to make up new rules to fit your theory to make it correct.
Not really, it's stated pretty clear that normal Soul Slayers are anything but normal, because they're the only things that can cut/harm Death Gods/Hollows, besides the Death Gods/Hollows themselves.

[Sandal Hat]

Well i decided to take some screens and also zarakis sword does break in 2 hmm..
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/4826/vlcsnap28782980tp.png (http://imageshack.us/)
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/7245/vlcsnap28783919ie.png (http://imageshack.us/)

[jonat3]

Zaraki's sword can heal itself. Only because Zaraki does not believe in his sword's power can it not heal itself completely. That's why his sword has jagged edges.

Also Zaraki's sword didn't really break in two. It was cut in two. By Ichigo. :p

[Sandal Hat]

As a result of ichigo slicing it the other piece BROKE off which is the same thing as BREAKING off into 2 :)

Also,after the battle zaraki finally asks the name of the swordhttp://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9866/vlcsnap28866782pj.png (http://imageshack.us)

[cavignone]

ya hard to tell huh?. my on the spot theroy one of 2 things. his sword always been jagged(years ago it look the exact same) or maybe it can be smoothed out once he truely believe in it(i'm not using the sankai,thought that might happen as well, the only way to heal it path cuase i'm 99% sure his sword fixed itself from when it was broken in 2 by ichgo. it was back in one full piece.)

btw sandal hat nice sig you got there lol.

edited: he did ask and a moment after words he said" "no way after all huh?" " i want to get stronger" " i found someone i want to fight!"

[Sandal Hat]

Yes,the ultimate attack of the female species...the Double Bounce!

[cavignone]

yep women's attack fo the deadly boobs can make any man stop fighting lol

[DaHolyCow]

The general rule is that u have to know ur zanpakutou's name to release it. Zaraki said that his spiritual power was so strong he didnt even need to release his zanpakutou, he just needed to concentrate on how hard he swinged. He said that he didnt think that zanpakutou's had names and stuff like that, so it basically shows that he doesnt believe in shikai and bankai and all those stuff.

Also, in chapter 120, its said that zaraki was the onli captain to not know his zanpakutou's name, and theoritically shouldn't be able to perform shikai or bankai.

In chapter 109, zaraki said that his sword couldnt get any stronger. That's because he never believed in releasing it, and his sword was onli a normal asauchi. Since he didnt know its name, he couldnt release it and thus couldnt make it stronger via shikai.

[Uruhara]

Well i decided to take some screens and also zarakis sword does break in 2 hmm..
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/4826/vlcsnap28782980tp.png (http://imageshack.us/)
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/7245/vlcsnap28783919ie.png (http://imageshack.us/)

So? What's your point? Urahara broke Ichigo's sword too and it healed back...

[cavignone]

uruhara. i think we trying to still figure out does it need to be released or waht is the reqirements for a soul slayer to fix it self. ichgo's fix itself as a resalt of it turin to in sankai form. kenpatchi did but it in it normal unreleased model. so can any soul slayer fix it self or there conditions need to happen. also is the ajgged edge to kenpatchi battle damage or jsut how it always been from the start.

[Sandal Hat]

^those above pics aren't the ones of zaraki's broken sword so nobody fuss at me about that lol

Also,holy cow what were discussing also is jonats idea that zaraki doesn't need to know his slayers name and that its automatically released and the idea that soul slayers heal only when there master knows there name and is connected to it

[jonat3]

Let me clarify chapter 120, since if you aren't looking for it, you might miss it.

The exact quote in chapter 120 went like this:




Yoruichi: Have you ever noticed that your zangetsu is always in it's released form?
Ichigo: Really? So it's like kenpachi's soulcutter?




Above quote clearly demonstrates that Ichigo knew that zaraki's sword was in it's released state. This is only logical, since Zaraki told him so in chapter 109.

And no, ichigo was NOT referring to the size. He was referring to the released form. :)

[Sandal Hat]

After going back and reading it yes now i do agree that zaraki's soul slayer is released and that is its true released form.I guess once he asks the name of his sword and grows with it then he can perform his bankai attacks.This also throws out the theory that asauchi's regenerate on their own (well its just that we haven't seen any thus far) because zarakis sword wasn't in its asauchi form.since zaraki's sword regenerated on its own this also backs this up that his soul slayer is released but he just doesn't rely on its power which means its being used like a regular sword.

[jonat3]

His sword will probably lose those jagged edges once zaraki works together with his sword. The sword will probably stay the same except for the edges.

Another thing just occurred to me. Asuachis probably aren't the sealed state of a sword. The sealed state is when you deliberately surpress the size and ability of your sword. But academy students couldn't even materialize their sword yet, so an asuachi may not be the sealed state.

[Sandal Hat]

Well since shikai =half release and bankai =full release im sure that means an ashauchi is sealed and shikai is halfway unsealed and bankai is not sealed at all

[Human Zangetzu]

Ichigo's sword is also in shikai form all the time. Knowing the name probably helped him materialize the sword. But like i said. Zaraki is an exception from the general rule. You seem to think that a rule is absolute. Not so. Almost every rule has an exception, a concept often used in manga.
Normally we would have tought that you needed to shout the name to use the shikai ability. Prior to chapter 140 (the fight between Renji and Byakuya) this was the general excepted rule. Renji proved that even that rule had an exception.

No, Renji knew his sword so well he didn't need to call out its name. Zaraki, who doesn't know his sword's name at all, cannot have a released sword YET. We know nothing about his sword at all, except that it has a soul in it and a different form to most Soul Slayers. What we can assume, however, that at one point later on in the Manga, Zaraki will get a Skikai form. Like I said in my earlier post, I found evidence of his Shikai form in the ending for episode 28. Watch it. See the blue light? His blade changed into energy. Shikai anyone?

[Sandal Hat]

Dude, go back and read the manga (http://ads.clicksor.com/serving/search4.php?q=lWL--%FE%25-%23%7E%26%2C%7D%270%27%FD%29%22U%5C%5B%2B%F8%21%2F %7B%25&q3=%5BQTY_U0pS%5B%F9icNeS_MqW0%28%7E%7D%260%7C%28% 2A%7E+&tl=6944&pn=19076&pid=7717&sid=12132&sc=manga) like i did. we have allready established that zarakis sword is released.ill post a pic here asap

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5182/mangarainbleachch109167ja.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5084/mangarainbleachch109170so.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/426/mangarainbleachch120076io.png (http://imageshack.us)

[Human Zangetzu]

-_-; Kenpachi beleives his sword is in his released form because he thought it had no name! But read onwards and Kenpachi tries to find out! And what happens when you find out the name of your soul slayer? SHIKAI!

Yes, his sword could be like ichigo's, but it isn't yet because he doesnt know the darn name!

And for the last time, watch the ending of ep 28.

[Sandal Hat]

DId you not even look at my post at all? Zaraki's sword is released but he cant do any attacks because he doesn't know the name of his sword and doesn't listen to it until ichigo beats him.His energy is so strong that it can't be sealed.An example would be like ichigo in his ban kai but without his energy attack

[ultimate]

i think zaraki doesnt know whether his soul slayer is released or not, he just claims that the soul slayer form he has right now is the only form... it could be that he doesnt know his soul slayer's name, he could even be right about his soul slayer has only one form but i think u need to know the name of ur soul slayer to release it into shikai form cos most of the shinigamis seen had to say the name of their soul slayer to release its shikai stage, including ichigo when he was training

[jonat3]

Yes, most need to know the name. Zaraki doesn't however. Saying he doesn't even know his sword is in it's released form is stretching it. Read the pics that Sandal Hat provided.

Also, chapter 120 has one additional quote proving my point. it says that all captains can do the ban release except one. Meaning that Zaraki already has his shikai release. If he didn't have it, Yoruichi would have said that all captains can do the shikai and ban release except one. She didn't however.

[cavignone]

i pretty sure when i read and watch the sence it said " in all SS only one captain has not achived bankai or even sankai. his name is zaraki kenpachi"(close to this i think,will edit when i get home and re-read and re-watch teh anime tonight)
zaraki in my option sword in it normal form, it powerful but to him it only been a sword nothign else. it has a avatar and power but he does not believe in or the use sankai and bankai for himself, he always thought it was a load of bull and those skills only for weakling that could not live on their owns skills.
after ichgo beats him and remembers how it felt to him having no name he start to think of his sword diffently no jsut a tool, thought it take some times i'm sure he will soon or later come to learn about his sword and achive sankai and bankai in short order.

i would think if zaraki sword was release it be very diffent in design and size, right not it jsut a very long kantan(i'm guesting he nearly 7 foot and the blade looked to be from his foot to near his shoulder in length.)

as for ichgo realy fast, i know his swrod sankai how ever he nother gave ita thought that it stayed in that mode he can not figure out how to turn it back to it normal form. so he thought that the new zungetsu was it new normal form.

[jonat3]

i pretty sure when i read and watch the sence it said " in all SS only one captain has not achived bankai or even sankai. his name is zaraki kenpachi"(close to this i think,will edit when i get home and re-read and re-watch teh anime tonight)
zaraki in my option sword in it normal form, it powerful but to him it only been a sword nothign else. it has a avatar and power but he does not believe in or the use sankai and bankai for himself, he always thought it was a load of bull and those skills only for weakling that could not live on their owns skills.
after ichgo beats him and remembers how it felt to him having no name he start to think of his sword diffently no jsut a tool, thought it take some times i'm sure he will soon or later come to learn about his sword and achive sankai and bankai in short order.

i would think if zaraki sword was release it be very diffent in design and size, right not it jsut a very long kantan(i'm guesting he nearly 7 foot and the blade looked to be from his foot to near his shoulder in length.)

as for ichgo realy fast, i know his swrod sankai how ever he nother gave ita thought that it stayed in that mode he can not figure out how to turn it back to it normal form. so he thought that the new zungetsu was it new normal form.

I don't know about the anime, but the manga was definately saying that zaraki was the only one that didn't master bankai.
Zaraki's sword is definately shikai. There can be no mistake here. Since the quote from Ichigo from chapter 120 (pic provided by Sandal Hat) definately proves it. That quote is definate proof. Zarakis is just not capable of using his shikai ability yet even though his sword already has that form.

[cavignone]

it also could be the trans for that group picked it diffently. after all that a small area and they could fo cut it down to size so it be readable.

so Zaraki's sword been in sankai along time ago before he was even a death god. we seen in in flash backs with teh same swords years ago when he just a powerful spirt in the 80th distric.(the truely savage area of the after life)

if i remember right they said to use/have snakai you need in sync with and know your swords name (Zaraki does not fit either), bankai you got to subdo it and control it.(basicaly master it and prove you strong to it, sankai reqired)

[jonat3]

it also could be the trans for that group picked it diffently. after all that a small area and they could fo cut it down to size so it be readable.

so Zaraki's sword been in sankai along time ago before he was even a death god. we seen in in flash backs with teh same swords years ago when he just a powerful spirt in the 80th distric.(the truely savage area of the after life)

if i remember right they said to use/have snakai you need in sync with and know your swords name (Zaraki does not fit either), bankai you got to subdo it and control it.(basicaly master it and prove you strong to it, sankai reqired)

No, it more went like this. To be able to USE shikai, you need to communicate with your sword and be able go to their world. The rule about knowing it's name to gain shikai has never been officially stated in the manga. Also, Zaraki can't communicate with his sword, thats why he still can't use his shikai ability.

[DaHolyCow]

It could be that Zaraki always THOUGHT his zanpakutou was in shikai form. Thats y he claimed that it was always released and told Ichigo his sword was never sealed. N since he told Ichigo that his zanpakutou was never sealed, Ichigo goes on to say that his zanpakutou was like Zaraki's.

A zanpakutou's size reflects its wielder's reiatsu. However, captain ranked shinigami usually control the size of their zanpakutous. It could be that Zaraki's zanpakutou was always a big one like Ichigo's asauchi, and he controled it to suit the size he liked. Notice that his Shikai has no special ability or no different form. Its just a regular katana, which resembles a long asauchi.

[cavignone]

No, it more went like this. To be able to USE shikai, you need to communicate with your sword and be able go to their world. The rule about knowing it's name to gain shikai has never been officially stated in the manga. Also, Zaraki can't communicate with his sword, thats why he still can't use his shikai ability.

so Zaraki from day one had sankai on his soul slayer before he was a death god, before he learned about them having names and all that? the be like ichgo starting fo with his sankai since they pretty even at this point, but ichgo had training and worked to learn his.

i thought Zaraki said his sword was butt ass naked, that it did not have another form, that the katana in his hand was it only form(maybe personal interpatin of what was said, tring to read it in japaness with my friend to spot check me)

[Sgt.Reaper]

Ok to clarefy a few things.

A soul slayer is in its normal"sealed form" just a sword that can cut souls.

The Zanpakto is a materialization of the maximal reiatsu at the current time of the shinigami.

At shikai you know the name of the sword. And the sword acts like an amplifier of your power and makes you much stronger and get abilitys.

Bankai then you have total control over the "spirit" in the sword and can fully utilize your maximal potential as a shinigami. The soul slayer then acts as a greater amplifier.

Zaraki sees his soul slayer like an ordinary sword, he therfore belives it only has one form and that it is released.
He said: "This is its true form" (as seen above in Sandal hats post) But only becouse he belives that there is no other forms.

You dont have to say the name of the zanpaktu to release it ( we saw renji) but you have to know it.

Zaraki dont know so he cant have relesed it.

When it comes to soul slayers healing i think they can heal even if in normal(unsealed form).
Ichigoes didnt heal becouse he no longer had shinigami powers(Byakuya took them from him).
Becouse since they originally are materializations of ones reiatsu.

I think Zaraki knows the name now, due to the fight with Tousen.
Since reaching shikai increses ones spiritual force even when the zanpaktu is in normal form.
If you noticed, Zaraki didnt even take of his eye-path when fighting Tousen and Komamura. That means he was'nt even using half his power. Yet he defeated alteast one of them. (quite easy) That may indicate a jump in strenght.

Also he was defeated by Ichigo and knew Ichigo was just getting stronger and stronger yet he wanted to fight him again.They were even the first time yet he seems to think he can win. I got the feeling he wanted to test "something".
But then again he might just want to enjoy a battle with one stronger than himself.

[jonat3]

It could be that Zaraki always THOUGHT his zanpakutou was in shikai form. Thats y he claimed that it was always released and told Ichigo his sword was never sealed. N since he told Ichigo that his zanpakutou was never sealed, Ichigo goes on to say that his zanpakutou was like Zaraki's.

A zanpakutou's size reflects its wielder's reiatsu. However, captain ranked shinigami usually control the size of their zanpakutous. It could be that Zaraki's zanpakutou was always a big one like Ichigo's asauchi, and he controled it to suit the size he liked. Notice that his Shikai has no special ability or no different form. Its just a regular katana, which resembles a long asauchi.

Look, Zaraki is a captain and he's part of the gotei 13. The first captain practically founded the school of shinigami. It's really stretching it to say that he THINKS it's released while it's not.

Also, i believe the size of the sealed state reflects the power (atleast when they are not consciously repressing the size). The shikai's size does not. Ichigo has been steadily growing stronger, yet the size of his shikai has always remained constant. So i don't think shikai size determines the strength.


so Zaraki from day one had sankai on his soul slayer before he was a death god, before he learned about them having names and all that? the be like ichgo starting fo with his sankai since they pretty even at this point, but ichgo had training and worked to learn his.

i thought Zaraki said his sword was butt ass naked, that it did not have another form, that the katana in his hand was it only form(maybe personal interpatin of what was said, tring to read it in japaness with my friend to spot check me)

Zaraki probably was a deathgod before he even became a captain. He just wasn't officially regarded as one. He had a sword that he probably materialized himself, just like Ichigo. Technichally when you are able to materialize your sword, you are a shinigami.

His sword did indeed not have another form. He started with his shikai right away.

[Sgt.Reaper]

For him to start with shikai right away makes no sense.

Him beliving there is no other form for the sword and therby claiming that it is its "true" form. makes much more sense

[jonat3]

For him to start with shikai right away makes no sense.

Him beliving there is no other form for the sword and therby claiming that it is its "true" form. makes much more sense

Look, Ichigo practically started with his shikai too. The previous sword he had was because of rukia's powers. The sword he materialized after he regained his TRUE powers, powers that was him and not rukia's, was also shikai right away.

And like i said. There is no room for error here. We can argue about this all day, but it's written black on white, in text as confirmation in chapter 120. There can be no misunderstanding those sentences.

[Sgt.Reaper]

Well I see your point. But what is written is what Zaraki thinks. Zaraki who think swords having spirits is bullshit, Zaraki who think Zanpaktus are only tools just like anyother.
There can be misunderstandings or alternate ways to interpret those words.

And to address the matter of Ichigoes big ass sword. He could never controll his spiritual force. And becouse of that and he having so much it got huge. If he had been able to controll his spiritual force it would have been smaller.

[cavignone]

every time we seena death god they always have the black robes cuse it part of there power. the clothings heals as do their swords(other wise ichgo mgiht be kind of nude from all his battles)
i'm all for him getting stronger but i just think thing through logicaly the best i can. we know he can use sankai and bankai one day, as of now no. he got to change his basic mind set and taht can take alot fo time from going to looking at your sword as a tool to your partner.

i do not think kenpatchi one fo the orginal death god that found the 13 squads. he mgiht be a few down the line liek teh 5th or so incharge of his squad(maybe they do another flash back so we can learn more about him) after all he pick the name cuase he liked it , it was not given to him. but he proven himself worhty of the name by becoming one of the strongest captains in histroy.(i wonder if he even gone to teh adcademy or did tehy jsut find him and send to to a squad since he already had his soul slayer jsut game him like a final test and passed him... hmm)
(as a side note kenpatchi was allowed to be a captain sololy on his combat skills, far as i seen i enver heard of him useing demon magic or the like, they where jsut impressed wiht his skill with his sword thats why they let him be a captain)

my curent theory is if the sword have a special cross guard then it ahve the option to be released(it might never been, but it a option) like this 1 out of every 1000 spirts have potenal to be a death god. out 100 of those only 10 mgiht make it to teh school and pass, out of all those 2 of those 10 have soul slayer with the non standard cross gruads. and ever 50 fo them a capatain class/genuis one mgiht show up with high sprit power/skill

all those that did not get a specal cross guard have teh anmeless basic katanas that have no spirt/avatar cuase they spirt foce is to weak to ahve one, they amke up the vast majority of death gods(other wise being a seat member or v-c not be as impressive) so they got sword that got no spirt so liekly those can not heal.

edit: jonat3, ichgo had vast power(rukia said this) and he never had anycontrol those comabin maybe with rukais made his soul salyer freaking huge, since it basic form and size = your total spirt force potental.

[jonat3]

Well I see your point. But what is written is what Zaraki thinks. Zaraki who think swords having spirits is bullshit, Zaraki who think Zanpaktus are only tools just like anyother.
There can be misunderstandings or alternate ways to interpret those words.

And to address the matter of Ichigoes big ass sword. He could never controll his spiritual force. And becouse of that and he having so much it got huge. If he had been able to controll his spiritual force it would have been smaller.

I think he knows swords have spirits, but he regards those spirits as tools and not something you work together with. If he truly thought they were soulless, he wouldn't even have attempted to talk with it after the battle. Also, everyone belonging to the gotei 13 must atleast know the basics and one of those basics is that swords have personalities.

According to Ishin, all captains control the size of their swords. If they didn't, they would be the size of sky scrapers. Since, Ichigo's sword is not a skyscraper and he isn't controllong the size, i can only assume that his shikai does not reflect his power. Perhaps the density could reflect it, but not the size.

[Sgt.Reaper]

Well my wrong he obviusly knows about swords having spirit but he regards using it being cowardly.

But well we'll probobly see later in the series who is wright, that is just my belife, and i will stick to it.

[cavignone]

i stick to my theroy for now till i learn somethign new that can change it. i'm flexable :-) and i know i can be wrong it part of being human :-P

[jonat3]

Let's hope we see Zaraki soon again to confirm it. :redbiggri

[Sgt.Reaper]

Agree I hope he is being sent to real world as a representative for soul society.

[cavignone]

yep more Zaraki = good anime goodness <3
a flash back or 2 of him be nice if they need a filler that not subtract from the stroy. :-) or if they have more in the manga,

[Ryoko]

Hey guys, im new to the forum but i got a nice little theory about all of this as well. Starting with Rukia "Giving" the "Powers" to Ichigo. OK think of it as you are a Death God. You have an "Inner World" we will call it our "Happy Place" In the Happy place is where your Swords Soul resides. Only you can enter your happy place and visit your swords soul eg. Ichigo and Zangetsu. There is no transferrence of soul slayers. A blade, perhaps but the swords soul stays with you. So when Rukia gave the so called "powers" to Ichigo, she gave him the portion of her Spirit powers and access to his Happy place or "Inner World", and a blade. the Blade Now soul-less that she used also went to him...the power of the weilder effects the size of the blade as well as how you control that power so while using her blade, his soul when called inhabits the blade which means for the time being the sword is his. Id like to think that the soul actually lives in the soul sleep District of your own soul. Its kind of like having a soul within a soul. If you are using a soul slayer without calling it or whatever some of the other guys do, you are mostly relying on your own power(in first form). Power Varies as does shape. Now, when Ichigo is fighting Kenpachi, kenpachi breaks Ichigos sword. Time and what not is stopped and Ichigo goes back with Zangetsu into the "inner world" there, he fights for a new sword of the same version. there is no repair there, he plainly got a brand new sword that looks the same for Zangetsu to inhabit. If Zangetsu or any soul for that matter lived in the sword itself, if it broke do you think the soul would die? Kind of like if you were cut in half would you die? So all Rukia has to do if she ever gets her powers back is go talk to her "Nameless Soul" in her "inner world" and talk to it to get a sword that her soul can go into. So in part, the sword is a tool and the soul that goes inside of it when you "release" your power is what you start bonding with. As for Regeneration. Ichigos sword has been duplicated or a new forge of the same sword has been made but the origional Zangetsu sword was destroyed. his base sword broke like 6-8 inches from the guard and we have only seen him fight with the broken sword for like 5 min before he released Zangetsu into it and it materialized into a different look. So wether or not his swords first form regenerated, we dont know so dont assume. Think of calling your swords name like remodeling your bathroom. its going to look different but its Fundamentals will be the same its still got the tub sink and toilet there so theres going to be more or less a blade hilt and crossguard (theres exceptions) and the second form also has more capacity for power I would think as well. Kenpachi as we know has a mass abundance of natural spirit energy. this alone could very well force his swords soul into the sword itself due to the magnitude of his power. He doesnt seem to have anything special going for him except for his own extreme power and his soul within seems to be pissy with him because of his unwillingness to bond. So regeneration of the sword itself may be an issue on how well the soul within Kenpachi feels it is being treated. Renji and his soul seem to get along great, therefore a quick regeneration time and a willingness to fight along side together because they depend on each other. Ichigo's willingness to work with Zangetsu earned him another sword as well and perhaps when the time comes we will see a rejuvinated first form of his sword. I think thats all and feel free to critisize as positive as possible so we can maybe figure out some solution.

[Sandal Hat]

That post was too long lol i only read the first part. im gonna read it and post what i think of it later but just to point out somehting....ichigos sword was the same size when he got his powers back (even though it was cut in less than half).Notice that the only thing that changed and was different was that he now has an inner hollow inside of him but i don't think that affected his size

[Ryoko]

Ya i think that post was a bit long lol ya good call on the size issue...maybe since I like to think that the first form of the sword is more reliant on ichigo himself... and correct me if im wrong but doesnt the hollow form come and go from Zangetsu himself? So if i were on the right track, the Hollow can only come out in Second and third form Just a thought there so maybe the Hollow Can not or At the time could not poke his little head out to give Ichigo a power boost to change the form of the sword in first form. I dont know How that would work but it seems that alot of the Death Gods seem to stop training themselves to an extent and just focus on their Swords power once they call it out. Except for Kenpachi of course lol that guys on Steriods or something....

[Human Zangetzu]

Sandal Hat I read your posts, and I am sticking to what I think. For the last time, everyone here:

WATCH THE ENDING OF EPISODE 28!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jonat3]

Sandal Hat I read your posts, and I am sticking to what I think. For the last time, everyone here:

WATCH THE ENDING OF EPISODE 28!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's probably just energy. In the fight between Ichigo and Zaraki, his sword was glowing yellow too i think. But i'll dl that ep since you insist. ^_^

[Sandal Hat]

Its not end the episode its in the ending but i think its just energy ill post a pic here so nobody will have to download it
Here goes, as you can see even if this was his shikai the sword doesn't change shape or size so this would only further prove my theory
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/2938/vlcsnap42197906th.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/8376/vlcsnap42200003qj.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/4993/vlcsnap42203898rb.png (http://imageshack.us)
(in order)

[jonat3]

I can still see his blade in those pics. His blade is slightly whiter than the energy around it. So it's just energy coming from his sword.

[cavignone]

with the infomation i got now i agree with jonat3 and sanfal hat. there no evidance as of yet what his sankai will even be like. i go with the theroy for now ti jsut him pouring his psirt power through his blade so his attack would be powerful.

[Sgt.Reaper]

Agreed. And to Ryoko it does actually heal. ( Zabimaru healed) And the second time they went into Ichigoes inner world. He was forced to prove if he was worthy of it.

[Herjan]

Ken-chans Zanpakuto is not a 24hour shikai, its in its sealed form.
To obtain ShiKai (First Release), conversation with your Zanpakuto is neccessary, as said Yoruichi. To obtain BanKai (2nd Release) materialization is neccecary (to bring the zanpakuto out). I think Ken-chan was only looking for an explenation for why he couldnt figure out the name for his Zanpakuto. Zangetsu heard Ken-chans' vail, cuz it wasnt heard. After the battle Zaraki asks the zanpakuto for its name so that he can get stronger. He then passes out, indicating that he had traveled to the soul slayers world.

I believe it is neccecary to know your zanpakutos name for it to heal. to acheive shikai you need to interact with your zanpakuto, thus is can borrow reiatsu to heal themselves. Kenpachis Zanpakuto was "blunt" from an enormous amount of battles, yet couldnt heal itself cuz of no interaction.

[jonat3]

Ken-chans Zanpakuto is not a 24hour shikai, its in its sealed form.
To obtain ShiKai (First Release), conversation with your Zanpakuto is neccessary, as said Yoruichi. To obtain BanKai (2nd Release) materialization is neccecary (to bring the zanpakuto out). I think Ken-chan was only looking for an explenation for why he couldnt figure out the name for his Zanpakuto. Zangetsu heard Ken-chans' vail, cuz it wasnt heard. After the battle Zaraki asks the zanpakuto for its name so that he can get stronger. He then passes out, indicating that he had traveled to the soul slayers world.

I believe it is neccecary to know your zanpakutos name for it to heal. to acheive shikai you need to interact with your zanpakuto, thus is can borrow reiatsu to heal themselves. Kenpachis Zanpakuto was "blunt" from an enormous amount of battles, yet couldnt heal itself cuz of no interaction.

Dude, it's in it's released form. Check out chapter 120 and then chapter 109. Also people argued with me that i'm interpreting the words wrong (i'm not), so i checked out the anime hoping it had a more definite translation. The end of episode 42 was about chapter 120. I checked Lunar's version. The time where they state Zaraki's sword is released is between 19 min 18s and 19 min 28 s.

It seems it's a near certainty now. That ep leaves no room for misinterpretation. Guess i debunked a theory that has been commonly excepted. Or atleast forced people to modify it. Even if you need to know the name most of the time,this rule is not absolute.

[Sandal Hat]

Also in the anime when his sword heals after ichigos battle it still is jagged so his sword is supposed to look like that

[Human Zangetzu]

*Sigh* Oh well, everyone can belive differently. I'm going to wait for the Manga to confirm the status for his sword.

[jonat3]

*Sigh* Oh well, everyone can belive differently. I'm going to wait for the Manga to confirm the status for his sword.

It's pretty much confirmed already. It's been put in the text in manga AND anime. But we'll see what kind of monstrous shikai Zaraki will manifest if you still don't believe. :redbiggri

[Herjan]

You seem very sure about your theory about him being an exeption. There is nothing indicating this. Ichigo had to learn zangetsus name to acheive Shi-kai. Its only now afterwards that it cant return to its original form. Kenpachi must have started out as every other shinigami with an non-released soul-slayer. He was not as powerfull as this from the start. He has never known his soul-slayer for anything other then what it looked like from the start. I've read the manga and watched the anime, and I interpret what they said differently then you. Besides it would be stupid for Zaraki to learn his soul-slayers name and nothing happened.
Agree I hope he is being sent to real world as a representative for soul society.
Dont think the gotei13 would be stupid enough to send Zaraki. Once there he would just go chasing after Ichigo for a fight and ruining Kurakura city in the process =P

[jonat3]

You seem very sure about your theory about him being an exeption. There is nothing indicating this. Ichigo had to learn zangetsus name to acheive Shi-kai. Its only now afterwards that it cant return to its original form. Kenpachi must have started out as every other shinigami with an non-released soul-slayer. He was not as powerfull as this from the start. He has never known his soul-slayer for anything other then what it looked like from the start. I've read the manga and watched the anime, and I interpret what they said differently then you. Besides it would be stupid for Zaraki to learn his soul-slayers name and nothing happened.


Of course i'm sure!! If i'm reading a piece of text that says a particular apple is red, do you think i'm going to doubt it? Same case here. If they say Zaraki's sword is released in both anime and manga, i'm not going to doubt it. If a rule says that on the planet there can only be green apples, i'm still not going to doubt the text. The text says the apple is red. Ok, so it's red. Is it weird that this one is red and all the others are green? Yes, but if the text says it's red, it must be so. When you look at the apple in the text and see it's red are you going to convince yourself that it MUST be green because all the others happen to be green? Absolutely not.

The anime version (lunar's) has a more definite translation that is IMPOSSIBLE to misinterpret. There is only one way to interpret it. Only one. It can't be interpreted in any other way. If people say it can, i suggest brushing up their reading comprehesnion skills and go back to school.

Dont think the gotei13 would be stupid enough to send Zaraki. Once there he would just go chasing after Ichigo for a fight and ruining Kurakura city in the process =P

Pretty much agree here. The person that sends Zaraki to the real world to attend school must have escaped out of an asylum.

[Herjan]

You have to know the names of the green apples for them to turn red!!

[jonat3]

You have to know the names of the green apples for them to turn red!!

lol

Anyways, we'll just wait till his shikai manifests. Do as you please, i know i'm right.

[Herjan]

I hope he gets a shikai release. Anything else would be seriously boring, unless he jumps straight to bankai ^^

[jonat3]

I pity his opponents if he ever manages shikai while he's fighting them.

[farseerdk]

omg zaraki + bankai = kill everyone near by just by the release of reiatsu

[DaHolyCow]

Zaraki wasn't a founder of the Gotei 13. He killed the previous captain of the 11th squad to become a captain. Like Tousen said, Zaraki was the one who became a captain after murdering the previous captain.

Also, Ichigo's zanpakutou wasnt always in its released form. If u watch the anime or read the manga, he screams out zangetsu's name before it turns into shikai. After turning into shikai, it remained that form.

Also, it was ICHIGO who said that Zaraki's zanpakutou was always in released form, not YORUICHI. Like I said earlier, Zaraki might have thought his zanpakutou was always released and never sealed, and thats what he told Ichigo. Ichigo then thinks Zaraki's zanpakutou was released and therefore told Yoruichi about it.

After all that's said, I still think zaraki's zanpakutou is sealed and not released. Nobody in history had their zanpakutou's released from the start. But oh well, its purely my opinion anyway ^^

I dunno, but I'm kinda hoping Zaraki doesn't shikai or bankai. Being the onli captain who relies on brute strength, it sorta makes him a more special character, no? XD

[jonat3]

For one thing when i meant founder of the shinigami school, i meant Yama. And i know Yoruichi didn't say it and that it was Ichigo..

Zaraki merely thinking that his sword is released? That's really stretching it. He's a captain and a member of Gotei 13 for crying out loud! Yoruichi only had to take one glance at Ichigo's sword and she already knew!

Besides, Ichigo practically started with shikai himself. His former sword had the hilt from rukia's, cause the power was rukia's. When he regained his TRUE shinigami powers, those powers that weren't rukia's, he manifested his shikai sword right after. So it's not impossible to start with shikai right away.

[Sgt.Reaper]

I totally agree with you DaHolyCow. Belives it is sealed for exactly the same reson.

But i do belive he will reach shi kai and ban kai, since he is more special than other i think he have a bigger role than ,most others.

Well other reson why he wont attend to school, who would be stupid enought to belive him a hight school strudent.

But since Hitsugaya is there other Captains might be to. maybe as teachers, lol. Imagen Ichigoes face if Zaraki was his teacher.

[Sandal Hat]

I agree that ichigos sword was not released when he turned into a death god the second time because ofcourse we can clearly see that it is ichigos broken old one.The thing is that were talking about zaraki and not ichigo and that maybe he is different plus if read the manga that i posted it clearly says that there is no release on his sword so that is what i will believe

[ultimate]

i would rather believe that zaraki's soul slayer has no shikai or bankai form but it would be cool if it did, everyone who feels his spiritual pressure will be instantly owned lol
anyway, it was zaraki who told ichigo that his soul slayer was already in its "true form" and ichigo believed it for a moment but then zangetsu told ichigo that zaraki didnt know the name of his soul slayer and doesnt bother to learn it... i think the main reason zaraki is so strong is that he is pouring his own spirital power into his soul slayer like ichigo kinda does except ichigo also has the help of zangetsu

[Sandal Hat]

Yes zangetsu does say that zaraki doesn't know the name of his soul slayer but that it is the point of this thread thus far to prove that zaraki's sword is released even though he doesn't know its name.There is not a seal on his sword which means that it is already fully released like stated earlier.

[jonat3]

It's like looking at a red apple convincing yourself the apple must be green, because all the others you've ever seen happen to be green. THAT's the kind of logic there using here.

[ultimate]

Yes zangetsu does say that zaraki doesn't know the name of his soul slayer but that it is the point of this thread thus far to prove that zaraki's sword is released even though he doesn't know its name.There is not a seal on his sword which means that it is already fully released like stated earlier.

ok then... zaraki actually says himself that there is no seal on his soul slayer and also says that his soul slayer is always in its "true form"... i still dont think it is released cos most of the shinigami had to say the name of their sword to release it into their shikai stage and they say bankai to release the bankai stage... if zaraki is unique or an exception, then if its the "true form" then his sword could be in its bankai stage... the only problem i have with this is that he doesnt know the name of his soul slayer which means he cant have released it into a shikai stage yet, ichigo knows his soul slayer's name is zangetsu and his soul slayer cannot be sealed as well and stays in its shikai stage all the time... i would like to say that zaraki is an exception but i think more proof is needed

[jonat3]

ok then... zaraki actually says himself that there is no seal on his soul slayer and also says that his soul slayer is always in its "true form"... i still dont think it is released cos most of the shinigami had to say the name of their sword to release it into their shikai stage and they say bankai to release the bankai stage... if zaraki is unique or an exception, then if its the "true form" then his sword could be in its bankai stage... the only problem i have with this is that he doesnt know the name of his soul slayer which means he cant have released it into a shikai stage yet, ichigo knows his soul slayer's name is zangetsu and his soul slayer cannot be sealed as well and stays in its shikai stage all the time... i would like to say that zaraki is an exception but i think i need more proof

It's not only Zaraki's quote that leads us to believe that, it's also Ichigo's quote from chapter 120. It's both those quotes combined that makes it a near certainty to Zaraki's meaning.

[ultimate]

btw what was ichigo's quote in ch120?

[jonat3]

btw what was ichigo's quote in ch120?

Yoruichi: Have you ever noticed that your Zangetsu is always in it's released form?
Ichigo: Really? So it's like Zaraki's soulcutter?


There were some people arguing with me that i was interpreting it wrong (i don't see how, but whatever), so i went looking at Lunar's version. Quote from ep 42 of the anime:

Ichigo: Fulltime released sword? That sounds like Zaraki Kenpachi.

There are no doubts. There is no way to misinterpret his meaning. Ichigo is saying Zaraki's sword is released.

Now SOME people are arguing with me that Ichigo misunderstood Zaraki or that Zaraki merely THOUGHT that his soulcutter was released. :rolleye09

Like i said, it's like looking at a red apple convincing yourself the apple must be green, because all the others you've ever seen happen to be green.

[farseerdk]

Like i said, it's like looking at a red apple convincing yourself the apple must be green, because all the others you've ever seen happen to be green.

but its fun to argue :p

[jonat3]

but its fun to argue :p

If it's sensible arguing i don't mind at all. I think it's fun too most of the time.

[Herjan]

That sounds like Zaraki Kenpachi
Doesnt back up your theory at all.

[Sandal Hat]

^Where the hell that come from?

[DaHolyCow]

If we all agreed this thread would die, and we wouldnt want that to happen right? XD XD XD

Anyway, if u read the manga, Ichigo yelled out ZANGETSU!! before it was released. Its not like after he got his own powers it manifested rite away. If u don't believe me read the manga volume 8 chapter 67.

Zangetsu: Forget the fear. Look forward. Walk forth. Never stop. Turning back will make you weak. Cowardice will cause you death. Say it! My name is...

Ichigo: ZANGETSU!!

There. He yells the name before it is released. We don't know for sure about zaraki's but I just think that its sealed and not yet released for the reasons i stated before.

Yet it may be that I like the colour Green and I dont like Red at all..... XD
(And I don't want the Green apple to become RED!! I want it to be GREEN!! GREEN!! XD)

[Sandal Hat]

My God, how many times have i said this.

Yes zangetsu does say that zaraki doesn't know the name of his soul slayer but that it is the point of this thread thus far to prove that zaraki's sword is released even though he doesn't know its name.There is not a seal on his sword which means that it is already fully released like stated earlier.
I agree that ichigos sword was not released when he turned into a death god the second time because ofcourse we can clearly see that it is ichigos broken old one.The thing is that were talking about zaraki and not ichigo and that maybe he is different plus if read the manga (http://ads.clicksor.com/serving/search4.php?q=lWL--%FE%25-%27%7C%275%7E%29%29%26++%22U%5C%5B%2B%F8%22-%7B%24&q3=%5BQTY_U0pS%5B%F9icNeS_MqW0%28%7E%7D%260%7C%28% 2A%7E+&tl=6939&pn=19071&pid=7717&sid=12132&sc=manga) that i posted it clearly says that there is no release on his sword so that is what i will believe

[.:Constant:.]

I just think that Kenpachi would probably take on anyone if he could release his sword thingy..(Just started, don't know names of stuff, technically :D). But with the power he has now he could defientally. then Banki..nobody would be able to stop 'em :P

[omfgman]

zaraki kenpachi will definitely be wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY stronger if he can use shikai/bankai because his skills already match the other captians without using bankai or shikai. i do believe he already know its name but he chooses not to use it because he thinks its more fun to taunt people with his norm sword.

[ultimate]

zaraki kenpachi will definitely be wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY stronger if he can use shikai/bankai because his skills already match the other captians without using bankai or shikai. i do believe he already know its name but he chooses not to use it because he thinks its more fun to taunt people with his norm sword.

no, he doesnt know the name of his soul slayer cos he told ichigo that his soul slayer had no name or something like that... and when he got defeated by ichigo, he tried to ask his soul slayer its name but no reply i think

[omfgman]

i wonder then, how it got reforged. he wished that he knew his soul slayer's name obviously when he told ichigo that it didnt have a name, it meant that he didnt know it because all soulslayers are suppose to hav a name. he need to have a worthy cause to bond and bring up his soulslayer's spirit. if his soul slayer really didnt have a name, then after he was beat by ichigo, he should have gotten a new soulslayer after realizing that he could be stronger

[Sandal Hat]

His sword healed again after the battle which means that it was released and since it healed to the exact form it had before it was broken means that it is released

[jonat3]

Well, i'm not certain if asuachi's can't heal. It may be in the beginning it can't, but later on when the shinigami gains some skills, it may be possible. Or they could get a new sword, but maybe not.

[ultimate]

zaraki's soul slayer healed after his battle with ichigo, it probably isnt released then cos if it was released wouldn't it heal to its asauchi form since zaraki went unconscious? it could be true wat zaraki said about his soul slayer having one form and that form might not even be asauchi, shikai or bankai... could be just a soul slayer with one form and like most soul slayers it can heal and cut spirits...

[jonat3]

Renji's weapon healed into it's shikai form. I've never seen an asuachi or sealed sword healed, so we can't exactly judge that.

[ultimate]

but its still possible for zaraki's soul slayer to not have a form and he could actually be right about his soul slayer is in its true form... renji's soul slayer healed into its shikai form but i wasnt sure whether renji was unconscious at that time or not... cos it made a difference for the bald dude ikkaku, his soul slayer was in its shikai form then ichigo defeated him and he went unconscious and his soul slayer went back to its asauchi form...

[DaHolyCow]

I don't think Zaraki got a new sword. If he did get a better zanpakutou, y did he choose one wif jagged edges?

I don't think asauchis can heal, so I assume that Zaraki got to know his zanpakutou's name after the battle with Ichigo and has thus been able to release it into his shikai stage (and heal it from there on) but chooses not to release it in battle just for the sake of having fun. Like he said, he onli battled for the joy of it, and releasing shikai or bankai would probably kill his opponents so fast he would have time to enjoy it.

[cavignone]

well i'm not sure if ken-chan learn his soul salyer name at teh point they in teh anime(not sure of manga not read that far yet lol,mirc give me problems all the time lol)

jsut to drive poeple insane i'm type a quote from the anime about kenpatchi having a snakai form soul salyer on all the ime like ichgo's and why at this point he can not have one. it on anime eps. 45 time 4:04 taht start of it.
"what required for shikai is dialogue and harmonization."
"in other words, as opposed to you going into the soul slay's world,"(i stop it there cuase after this ti go in to bankai stuff)

forgot to write something lol. now to me(i can be wrong so blast away) kenpatchi does not know his swords name fine, how ever he also does not hear it at all, trust it or even think of it as a person instead of a tool. now that somehow in my mind tlel me talking and syncing with his sword be kind of hard with taht mind set. so till i see him talk or at lest hear his sword abit i think ken's blade just in it sealed form. kenpatchi at one point said his pwoer could nto be slead i think he was talking aobut himself only, that his spirt force was so big he could not control or suppress it. taht he was only in max on mode(except the eye patch). however soul slayers act as a kind of limitor til you learn how to sue tehm to release your full prtentail after his fight with ichgo i think kne start to udnerstand this and till get his shikai blade soon i hope.

[jonat3]

That quote is required for USING shikai. You are all trying to convince yourself of something different with while the truth is written black on white in the manga. Even the anime supports me in this regard.

[cavignone]

in teh anime it has not said he relased he sword. when cat-woman talking to ichgo she tell him in all Ss histroy there beena only one captain that not gained bankai or even knew his soul slayer name, his name it kenpatchi. those reqirement i gave not for using it just the ablity to beable to.
ichgo had diglog wiht his soul slayer beore it was unsealed, resluting in it curent form. at not time before that did ichgo sword been unsleaed.
now unless kenpatchi very odd among death gods the basic rule should still hold for him. tilll i see hard proof of that i saying he follwing the same rule set as everyone else.

been asking a friend that speak japaness tell me waht he think of that lines you mentioned as how it writes and not translated for easy reading. he writing ti donw and not prettying it up at all so i get back later on that when he done and got time to come by.

[jonat3]

in teh anime it has not said he relased he sword. when cat-woman talking to ichgo she tell him in all Ss histroy there beena only one captain that not gained bankai or even knew his soul slayer name, his name it kenpatchi. those reqirement i gave not for using it just the ablity to beable to.
ichgo had diglog wiht his soul slayer beore it was unsealed, resluting in it curent form. at not time before that did ichgo sword been unsleaed.
now unless kenpatchi very odd among death gods the basic rule should still hold for him. tilll i see hard proof of that i saying he follwing the same rule set as everyone else.

been asking a friend that speak japaness tell me waht he think of that lines you mentioned as how it writes and not translated for easy reading. he writing ti donw and not prettying it up at all so i get back later on that when he done and got time to come by.


In the anime it's even more evident in fact. The quote from episode 42 of the anime (lunar's version) went like this:

Ichigo: Fulltime released sword? That sounds like Zaraki Kenpachi.

This is definate proof.
Keep in mind that the rule about knowing the name to learn shikai has never been officially stated anywhere in the manga, so we don't know for sure how absolute this rule is, or if it's even valid. I only know that IF this rule exist, Zaraki is a clear exception.

[Centro]

In the anime it's even more evident in fact. The quote from episode 42 of the anime (lunar's version) went like this:

Ichigo: Fulltime released sword? That sounds like Zaraki Kenpachi.

This is definate proof.
Keep in mind that the rule about knowing the name to learn shikai has never been officially stated anywhere in the manga, so we don't know for sure how absolute this rule is, or if it's even valid. I only know that IF this rule exist, Zaraki is a clear exception.

What if Ichigo is wrong about Zaraki's sword? Ichigo is no expert on soul slayers and neither is zaraki (since he thinks they are just tools).

So in their little conversation while they were fighting Zaraki says "I never put a seal on my soul slayer, this is its true form". I think Zaraki means he himself never put a seal on it (because he never achieved shikai he's never had to seal it before) and it is its true form because its the only form he's ever known.

So Ichigo interprets him just the way you have and thinks his sword is in shikai. You can't take Ichigo's statement as any sort of proof since it is based on Zaraki's statement and that can be interpreted in different ways.

I don't see how you can be so certain since you know that the anime has implied in many places that you need to know your swords name for shikai (Zangetsu tells ichigo to call out his name, other characters have said you should know your swords name and talk with it to achieve shikai). Yet Kenpachi does not know his swords name. You should be proving to us how he could be in shikai without knowing it.

But you can't because the anime and manga are contradictory and inconclusive about the matter so the only way we will find out for sure is when Zaraki fights again probably. Now stop being so patronising and dismissive please.

[jonat3]

What if Ichigo is wrong about Zaraki's sword? Ichigo is no expert on soul slayers and neither is zaraki (since he thinks they are just tools).

So in their little conversation while they were fighting Zaraki says "I never put a seal on my soul slayer, this is its true form". I think Zaraki means he himself never put a seal on it (because he never achieved shikai he's never had to seal it before) and it is its true form because its the only form he's ever known.

So Ichigo interprets him just the way you have and thinks his sword is in shikai. You can't take Ichigo's statement as any sort of proof since it is based on Zaraki's statement and that can be interpreted in different ways.

I don't see how you can be so certain since you know that the anime has implied in many places that you need to know your swords name for shikai (Zangetsu tells ichigo to call out his name, other characters have said you should know your swords name and talk with it to achieve shikai). Yet Kenpachi does not know his swords name. You should be proving to us how he could be in shikai without knowing it.

But you can't because the anime and manga are contradictory and inconclusive about the matter so the only way we will find out for sure is when Zaraki fights again probably. Now stop being so patronising and dismissive please.

Look, what you are saying is very unlikely. Like i said, it's more likely that the japanese to english translation in chapter 109 wasn't clear enough creating this misunderstanding. Ichigo did not misunderstand Zaraki. Yoruichi didn't even counter Ichigo when he said Zaraki's sword was released. It's excusable for Ichigo not to know about swords, but it's not excusable for Zaraki, since he belongs to SS. Other captains would have told him wether it wasn't in it's released state.

The reason i'm certain, is because the arguments you have brought against me are not conclusive. You yourself said it was only hinted in the manga. It was never explicitly stated. That means it's entirely possible that this rule doesn't even exist (you know what they say, assumption is the mother of all F***ups). What could be gathered out of all these "hints" is that the name is important. How important it is, we don't know. What we DO know is that Ichigo said that Zaraki's sword is released, something he can only know cause Zaraki told him so himself in chapter 109.

[Centro]

Only hinted at in the series? I quote from episode 45 lunar sub

Yourichi: "What's required for shikai is dialogue and harmonization. In other words, as opposed to you going into the soul slayer's world, bankai requires the soul slayer's materialization and submission."

and from chapter 127 (same part)

Yourichi: "You need communication and synchronization with your soul cutter to achieve the initial release." ... "Materialization means the opposite of getting dragged into the soul cutter's world in your conversations with it."

Zaraki doesn't know his soul slayer's name and has never been to its world. Yourichi should know her stuff about soul slayers. My explanation is unlikely?

Your explanation depends on A) Yourichi not correcting Ichigo B) a fuzzy line from Zaraki.

[jonat3]

Only hinted at in the series? I quote from episode 45 lunar sub

Yourichi: "What's required for shikai is dialogue and harmonization. In other words, as opposed to you going into the soul slayer's world, bankai requires the soul slayer's materialization and submission."

and from chapter 127 (same part)

Yourichi: "You need communication and synchronization with your soul cutter to achieve the initial release." ... "Materialization means the opposite of getting dragged into the soul cutter's world in your conversations with it."

Zaraki doesn't know his soul slayer's name and has never been to its world. Yourichi should know her stuff about soul slayers. My explanation is unlikely?

Your explanation depends on A) Yourichi not correcting Ichigo B) a fuzzy line from Zaraki.

*looks at quotes*

Name? I don't see anywhere where they said you need to know the name in those quotes.

[Centro]

*looks at quotes*

Name? I don't see anywhere where they said you need to know the name in those quotes.

Zaraki can't even hear his soul slayer let alone dialogue, harmonise, communicate and synchronise with it. And ofcourse knowing its name would be important for all those things too, wouldn't you agree?

[jonat3]

Zaraki can't even hear his soul slayer let alone dialogue, harmonise, communicate and synchronise with it. And ofcourse knowing its name would be important for all those things too, wouldn't you agree?

Knowing the name is not required for communication. I believe hollow Ichigo stated it best.

Hollow Ichigo: " Do you think that a complete stranger will suddenly become your best friend after you just ask him his name?"

Also, one of Ichigo's quotes is quite applicable here too.

Ichigo: "I'm the same as him. All i know is the name. But i don't really know anything about the zangetsu old man! Only knowing the name is the same as not knowing anything!"

[Centro]

But being able to hear someone is required for communication.

Ichigo entered zangetsu's world and talked with him when he was getting his shinigami powers back. He did not have shikai when he left. He only get shikai after he learned zangetsu's name.

I'm not saying that that proves the name is required. I'm saying that it has been stated in the manga and anime that shikai requires entering your soul slayer's world and talking with it. Zaraki can't hear his soul slayer, hasn't entered its world before and therefore, I think, does not know shikai.

[jonat3]

But being able to hear someone is required for communication.

Ichigo entered zangetsu's world and talked with him when he was getting his shinigami powers back. He did not have shikai when he left. He only get shikai after he learned zangetsu's name.

I'm not saying that that proves the name is required. I'm saying that it has been stated in the manga and anime that shikai requires entering your soul slayer's world and talking with it. Zaraki can't hear his soul slayer, hasn't entered its world before and therefore, I think, does not know shikai.

It's not like Zaraki CAN'T communicate with his sword, it's more like he WON'T communicate with his sword. People with enormous talent can hear their swords more easily, unless they repress it themselves. Ichigo himself wasn't communicating with his sword properly, yet his sword was already in shikai mode.

[Centro]

It's not like Zaraki CAN'T communicate with his sword, it's more like he WON'T communicate with his sword. People with enormous talent can hear their swords more easily, unless they repress it themselves. Ichigo himself wasn't communicating with his sword properly, yet his sword was already in shikai mode.

Have you got a source for any of that?

[jonat3]

Have you got a source for any of that?

A perfect example of this is Ichigo himself. Renji for example needed to train to be able to materialize his sword. I gather similar training was needed to be able to communicate with it. However, Ichigo did not train and yet he was easily able to hear his sword. He was also able to travel to his sword's world, without even training. I can only think that it's because of his talent.

I believe people who are extremely talented in spiritual power start out with their released swords. Ichigo himself also started with his released sword. The other sword was just rukia's power (that's why the hilt was the same as the hilt of rukia's sword). When Ichigo regained his TRUE shinigami powers, powers that were himself and not rukia's, he materialized his shikai sword at the time. I don't think it was because of the name, that's thinking backwards. It's because of his sheer talent.

[Centro]

A perfect example of this is Ichigo himself. Renji for example needed to train to be able to materialize his sword. I gather similar training was needed to be able to communicate with it. However, Ichigo did not train and yet he was easily able to hear his sword. He was also able to travel to his sword's world, without even training. I can only think that it's because of his talent.


You gather similar training was needed? Aren't you making an assumption there? What did you say about assumptions? Ichigo was forced to hear his sword. He was on the brink of becoming a hollow. He had not heard his sword before then so it wasn't exactly easy. The idea that intense training is required to hear your sword and enter its world is entirely yours.


I believe people who are extremely talented in spiritual power start out with their released swords. Ichigo himself also started with his released sword. The other sword was just rukia's power (that's why the hilt was the same as the hilt of rukia's sword). When Ichigo regained his TRUE shinigami powers, powers that were himself and not rukia's, he materialized his shikai sword at the time. I don't think it was because of the name, that's thinking backwards. It's because of his sheer talent.

Ichigo did not start with a released sword. Straight after he got his TRUE powers back (as you say) he still had his old broken sword. But that is a side issue.

You still haven't named a source for your statement that Zaraki can hear his sword he just won't talk to it. And if he won't talk to it how could he have shikai?

[jonat3]

You gather similar training was needed? Aren't you making an assumption there? What did you say about assumptions? Ichigo was forced to hear his sword. He was on the brink of becoming a hollow. He had not heard his sword before then so it wasn't exactly easy. The idea that intense training is required to hear your sword and enter its world is entirely yours.

True that. My assumption or your assumption, which will prove true? I'm atleast certain that training is required, regardless of knowing the name or not.


Ichigo did not start with a released sword. Straight after he got his TRUE powers back (as you say) he still had his old broken sword. But that is a side issue.

Yes, that was a leftover from rukia's power. Like i said, look at the hilt of that sword.

You still haven't named a source for your statement that Zaraki can hear his sword he just won't talk to it. And if he won't talk to it how could he have shikai?

No, it's being ABLE to talk with his sword that made his sword a fulltime released sword. Actually talking to it, is what releases it's abilities.

My resource is this from chapter 113:

Zangetsu: "Do you hear his blade mourning? He has never listened to that voice."

Meaning, Zaraki WAS able to talk with his sword, but Zaraki was never willing to listen.

[Centro]

No, it's being ABLE to talk with his sword that made his sword a fulltime released sword. Actually talking to it, is what releases it's abilities.

My resource is this from chapter 113:

Zangetsu: "Do you hear his blade mourning? He has never listened to that voice."

Meaning, Zaraki WAS able to talk with his sword, but Zaraki was never willing to listen.

Where are you getting this stuff from? Half your arguements seem to be based on what you made up! This "being ABLE to talk with your sword" and fulltime release stuff is all you.

If just being able to hear your sword was enough for shikai Ichigo would have had it the first time he came out of zangetsu's world.

Now you're going on about the difference between 'not being able to hear' (which BTW is how it is translated in lunar's sub of that section) and 'not listenning to' from the manga. In either case Zaraki does not dialogue with his sword or enter its world.

[jonat3]

Where are you getting this stuff from? Half your arguements seem to be based on what you made up! This "being ABLE to talk with your sword" and fulltime release stuff is all you.

If just being able to hear your sword was enough for shikai Ichigo would have had it the first time he came out of zangetsu's world.

Now you're going on about the difference between 'not being able to hear' (which BTW is how it is translated in lunar's sub of that section) and 'not listenning to' from the manga. In either case Zaraki does not dialogue with his sword or enter its world.

Ichigo didn't enter that world either prior before meeting Zaraki. His sword was still in it's released state though.

Anyways, let's just say this. I'm only going down this line of reasoning, because the chapters DEFINATELY say his sword is released. When it's proven BEYOND doubt that his sword is released in later chapters (when Zaraki gains his shikai), that will close off all the other lines of reasonings that resulted from the belief that the name is required to release the sword. In that event, you will be forced to reason like i do.

Anyways, believe as you will. I know i'm right. I'm just merely waiting for the chapters that will prove what i'm saying.

[farseerdk]

wow 16 pages. dont u guys think ur blowing this way outa proportion?

[jonat3]

wow 16 pages. dont u guys think ur blowing this way outa proportion?

Nah, people are too lazy to read back. That's why i've been repeating points constantly in this thread.

[Sgt.Reaper]

Well Jonat3.

Centro does have a point. If only hearing was needed Ichigo would have a relesed form of Zangetsu right after he got out of the "Hole of despair"(think thats the name).

But he didnt gain his shikai until he got the name.

Zaraki is probobly as you say talanted enought to hear the name of the sword.
But, since he strongly claims that the sword dont have a name, he probobly havent gone to its world. Or if he have went there he wasnt abel to hear the name due to something blocking it from reaching him.
Like Ichigoes fear did right before he heard it.

But as you say the future will tell who is right.

[jonat3]

Well Jonat3.

Centro does have a point. If only hearing was needed Ichigo would have a relesed form of Zangetsu right after he got out of the "Hole of despair"(think thats the name).

But he didnt gain his shikai until he got the name.

Zaraki is probobly as you say talanted enought to hear the name of the sword.
But, since he strongly claims that the sword dont have a name, he probobly havent gone to its world. Or if he have went there he wasnt abel to hear the name due to something blocking it from reaching him.
Like Ichigoes fear did right before he heard it.

But as you say the future will tell who is right.

Nah, he only regained his powers after the hole. He didn't regain his sword yet. What we saw after the shattered shaft was the leftovers from rukia's powers. You say he regained his sword after hearing the name, but i can go even farther than that. I say he gained his sword after hearing his sword's voice. My current theory is that, since Ichigo can hear his sword (without making any real effort at all and without training), this made his sword a fulltime released sword.

Anyways, those were my reasonings, but these reasonings are products from my belief that his sword is in it's released form. I don't doubt chapter 109 and chapter 120, but others seem to doubt it. So we'll just have to wait and see.

[farseerdk]

ichigo is an exception in a lot of ways. it supposed to take 10 years to learn bankai and 20 years to prep it for battle (look how renji got owned when he used bankai), yet ichigo learned bankai in 3 days and preped in instantly. I dont think we can use ichigo's zanktesu as a model for all other soul slayers.

[Herjan]

Yoruichi may also believe that Zarakis sword is fulltime released. Remember that Yoruichi was never a part of the gotei 13, and probably not even a shinigami, so her knowlege about this subject should be limited as well.
As far as i know, Rukia doesnt know the name of her zanpakuto, and thus she doesnt have her "own" zanpakuto, but one of the "nameless" ones. Thus Ichigo, being an unexperienced Shinigami could have started out with this kind of zanpakuto as well, wich would explain them having the same hilt.

Then you would go out and say "But that only backs up my theory! Zarakis zanpakuto doesnt look like theirs!"

Well, all captains have to controll the size of their zanpakutos, and why not the shape of them as well? I for one doubt that Uraharas zanpakuto is originaly a cane.

[jonat3]

Yoruichi was part of SS. That's for certain. She even held a rank and was one of the four great noble families. I think only shinigami can be part of the inner ranks of SS.

[omfgman]

lol was some1 hoping that ichigo becomes captain or something?