Final Form Uryuu Ishida versus Kuchiki Byakuya

[Seff vi Britannia]

The sixth division captain
Record:
Outran By Shihouin Yourichi
Defeated Abarai Renji
Defeated By Kurosaki Ichigo

Against Ishida Uryuu's final form.
Record:
Defeated 12th division captain Kurotsuchi Mayuri.

Rules:
Battleground: Soul society
Ishida does not "lose" his final form. His final form is present until the end of the battle, win or loose. Ishida does not have acess to seele schnieder or other "manga bits"
Byakuya is as normal.
Fillers/OVAs may not be used to back up your points
No flaming

[h3h3h3]

BYAKUYA hasn't got a chance hahahahaha he would die in SS wise too.
*Phiu* *Phiu*
''...Oh the holes in me...''

[Wanderweiss]

. . .

Ishida wouldn't stand a chance, I don't see the argument here. And you're also stating things that wouldn't be possible (Ishida sustaining the form in a long battle with Byakuya)

[T_Ichigo]

*screaming loudly* Byakuya~

[cupnoodles]

where are they fighting? soul society or human world?

if SS and his uber buff lasts forever, ishida'll win.
if it's SS and his uber buff lasts only a few seconds, he's screwed
if it's the human world, ishida dies, period.

[Myst]

In my opinion Uryuu Ishida doesn't have chance to win with Kuchiki Byakuya.
He need more and more training to think about it.

[T_Ichigo]

You're quite reasonable, experience says the most. I would bet my fortune on Kuchiki Byakuya.
If it was about Ryukeen (Ishida's old man, did I spell it right?) against Byakuya then I would be very unsure, but this is Ishida :S against Byakuya :/

[cupnoodles]

"that" ishida blew up a bankai and poked a hole in mayuri with one tiny little arrow.

[h3h3h3]

I didn't want to bring manga in this but
@T_Ichigo Have you read manga? xD

[Wanderweiss]

"that" ishida blew up a bankai and poked a hole in mayuri with one tiny little arrow.

One tiny Arrow? That arrow was everything he had, his form dissolved shortly after using it. And the arrow < Getsuuga Tenshou which Byakuya's bankai absorbed completely

[cupnoodles]

One tiny Arrow? That arrow was everything he had, his form dissolved shortly after using it. And the arrow < Getsuuga Tenshou which Byakuya's bankai absorbed completely
that's unlikely. there's a chance that maybe ogichi's kuroi getsuga tenshou is stronger, but definitely not the regular shikai one.
ishida's buff gives him absolute dominance over spiriton(far beyond normal spiriton control), which SS is composed of.
no pink shield is blocking it.

[Wanderweiss]

And that matters why? He won't be able to penetrate Senbonzakura Kageyoshi, and he certainly isn't as fast as Bankai Ichigo, so we won't be able to avoid the attack

[Seff vi Britannia]

Well, I think Ishida would win this fight in the same amount of time he won against Mayuri in. Why?

Ishida's speed:
Byakuya cannot keep up with Ishida. Why?
Because shikai Ichigo was able to keep up with shikai Byakuya. While Ichigo may not have been able to run at the same speed, he was fast enough to see Byakuya's attacks. The key word here is see
Mayuri could not see Ishida's movement. Ok, this is eyesight, and i doubt Mayuri needs glasses. He's got about the same vision as Ichigo, who could see Byakuya. Therefore, because Ishida's movements are faster than Byakuya's, and Byakuya has already stated his bankai does not increase speed, Ishida is faster.

Now really, this should be the end of the fight. Ishida gets behind Byakuya and shoots him in the back. But to placate the fanboys, let's say Byakuya manages to get bankai out.

Ishida shoots through it. It's as simple as that. If it can peirce Konijki, it can sure as hell break through a wall of tiny blades. Byakuya dies, again.

Now then, to placate you hungry Byakuya-slaves even more, i'm going to pretend he will be able to get anhiliationscape out. What happens now? Ishida gets behind Byakuya and shoots him in the back. nice and simple, nice and easy.

Ishida's got everything going for him in his final form. His strength increases from absorbing spirit particles, he has rasontengai anyway, he's fast, and he's powerful.
Now then:

Myst.
In my opinion Uryuu Ishida doesn't have chance to win with Kuchiki Byakuya.
He need more and more training to think about it.

This is Ishida's final, godly form we're talking about.

Noodels:
where are they fighting? soul society or human world?

if SS and his uber buff lasts forever, ishida'll win.
if it's SS and his uber buff lasts only a few seconds, he's screwed
if it's the human world, ishida dies, period.

Soul Society, i'll edit it into the first post. :)

Wander:
. . .

Ishida wouldn't stand a chance, I don't see the argument here. And you're also stating things that wouldn't be possible (Ishida sustaining the form in a long battle with Byakuya)

Ah yes, but some of the match ups we have in here "aren't possible" anyway. Ishida stayed in his final form for a while after beating Mayuri anyway (it was fading, admitedly, ) (he walked from the battleground to the steps of the tower, and we can see in the anime that time went from night to day during his journey)


One tiny Arrow? That arrow was everything he had, his form dissolved shortly after using it. And the arrow < Getsuuga Tenshou which Byakuya's bankai absorbed completely


Can i have some proof of that please? Thanks.

[cupnoodles]

...it matters because with no time limit, ishida can convert all of seireitei into one gigantic arrow. you tell me what has more power, all of seireitei or flowers.

Mayuri could not see Ishida's movement.
he could see it actually, he just didn't have time to dodge it as ishida was in near point blank range after coming out of lotsa smoke.

[Miyagi Rikku]

I think the excessive use of the spirit particles will make Ishida like
a killing machine but then again... Byakuya is fast and can outspeed
Ishida and that is a problem nee?

[Seff vi Britannia]

...it matters because with no time limit, ishida can convert all of seireitei into one gigantic arrow. you tell me what has more power, all of seireitei or flowers.


he could see it actually, he just didn't have time to dodge it as ishida was in near point blank range after jumping out of lotsa smoke.

Qouted for truth. I'd estimate Ishida would remain in full power in final form for about an hour. Which is far longer than most Bleach fights.

[cupnoodles]

you mean 1 hour time limit in this thread's condition or under manga condition? the manga showed his power disappearing as he started running away, so i'd estimate it to be a few minutes <.<

[sirhchris]

imo byakuya would have won! :)

[T_Ichigo]

h3h3h3@ No, I don't read manga hahaha ! :D:D

[Grim_Dragon]

I hate Ishida he is a whimpering (well you know) and Kuchiki Byakuya is a kick ass fighter... can anyone really put money behind Ishida? Not me, my votes for Byakuya!

[silverwolf801]

if ishida's final form was forever byakuya would get his ass handed to him in a quincy scarf

[Seff vi Britannia]

you mean 1 hour time limit in this thread's condition or under manga condition? the manga showed his power disappearing as he started running away, so i'd estimate it to be a few minutes <.<

Hmm, the anime and manga differ here :o. Ishida stayed in his final form until he met Tousen.

Anyway, it should only take about a minute for Byakuya to die.
And yes Ishidas final form is "inifnite" in this battle.

[Seff vi Britannia]

I think the excessive use of the spirit particles will make Ishida like
a killing machine but then again... Byakuya is fast and can outspeed
Ishida and that is a problem nee?

Wrong. I already proved Ishida is faster than Byakuya.

(edit:lawl, double post sorry.)

[Wanderweiss]

You didn't prove anything. Renji couldn't SEE Byakuya's attack until he got stronger... so what makes you think Byakuya and Mayuri are on the same level? That is the key flaw in your argument. And Ishida wouldn't have infinite time to fight Byakuya, after Byakuya gets his bankai out he'll be able to hit Ishida with it, Ishida is NOWHERE near as fast as Ichigo in his bankai, and Ichigo was barely able to escape Byakuya's bankai.

[Jay3205]

There is no reason to assume that Mayuri and Byakuya are not near the same level. They are both captains, and neither are mentioned to be exceptionally strong or weak.

And Ishida wouldn't have infinite time to fight Byakuya, after Byakuya gets his bankai out he'll be able to hit Ishida with it, Ishida is NOWHERE near as fast as Ichigo in his bankai, and Ichigo was barely able to escape Byakuya's bankai.Byakuya needs to drop his sword, wait for all the other swords to rise, then scatter them. Ishida could easily kill Byakuya in this time. Also, why are you assuming Ishida is nowhere near as fast as Ichigo in bankai? He could escape the vision of another captain. Byakuya can't escape the vision of Renji. Unless you think Renji has better eyes than Mayuri, then it's pretty obvious that Ishida is faster than Byakuya.

Finally, you say Byakuya can just "hit" Ishida, but what prevents Ishida from just "hitting" Byakuya? Ishida can shoot at least 6 arrows simultaneously, is extremely fast, and packs enough power to kill with each shot. Over 99% of Byakuya's petals would be useless in blocking... he can not condense his entire bankai into a single point where Ishida's arrow hits, so most of his bankai would be fluttering doing nothing. Byakuya has never moved while using bankai, so Ishida would hit Byakuya the same way he pierced Mayuri's bankai and hit Mayuri.

[Seff vi Britannia]

You didn't prove anything. Renji couldn't SEE Byakuya's attack until he got stronger... so what makes you think Byakuya and Mayuri are on the same level? That is the key flaw in your argument. And Ishida wouldn't have infinite time to fight Byakuya, after Byakuya gets his bankai out he'll be able to hit Ishida with it, Ishida is NOWHERE near as fast as Ichigo in his bankai, and Ichigo was barely able to escape Byakuya's bankai.

Clearly, you can't read. I made it clear that it was being able to SEE the other person i was comparing speeds on. So unless you're implying Mayuri has bad eyesight...

(recap:)

(Ichigo can see Byakuyas attacks, but Mayuri cant see Ishida moving. So unless Ichigo has better eyesight than Mayuri, Ishida is faster than Byakuya.

[cupnoodles]

i don't know how you got the impression mayuri couldn't see ishida. he clearly saw him, but failed to dodge the 2nd arrow.

[Seff vi Britannia]

He couldn't see him move. You might need to watch the anime ep, it probably dosent show it in the manga :/

[Jay3205]

I was under the impression that Mayuri saw Ishida "appear" above him due to the position he jumped in instead of actually tracking his movements.

[Wanderweiss]

Clearly, you can't read. I made it clear that it was being able to SEE the other person i was comparing speeds on. So unless you're implying Mayuri has bad eyesight...
(recap:)
(Ichigo can see Byakuyas attacks, but Mayuri cant see Ishida moving. So unless Ichigo has better eyesight than Mayuri, Ishida is faster than Byakuya.


You're a bit of an idiot... first of all what makes you think Mayuri is as fast as Ichigo? Ichigo couldn't SEE Byakuya the first time either, you idiot. Ichigo got stronger, faster, and then he was able to see the attack. Mayuri =/= Byakuya in terms of speed. Byakuya could definitely match or out-speed Ishida. Now, go on and refute my other points.

Edit; Missed Jay's post...

First of all, Byakuya was able to block a full force Getsuuga, even if it isn't the same power of Ishida's arrow (which I HIGHLY doubt) the span of the Getsuuga is MUCH larger than an arrow point, so why wouldn't he be able to block the arrows? And this is Bleach we're talking about, Ishida isn't going to attack Byakuya while he's pulling out bankai, that doesn't ever happen. And lets see... if you DON'T think Bankai Ichigo isn't faster than Ishida, you're retarded.

[Seff vi Britannia]

So, Ichigo's eyesight improved with bankai training? lmao. Absurd.

You're a bit of an idiot
Yeah, no personal attacks please, or i'll just report you :)

He can't block the arrows because the power is compressed into a much smaller area than the getsuga. go back to physics lessons, please.

[Jay3205]

You're a bit of an idiot... first of all what makes you think Mayuri is as fast as Ichigo? Ichigo couldn't SEE Byakuya the first time either, you idiot. Ichigo got stronger, faster, and then he was able to see the attack. Mayuri =/= Byakuya in terms of speed. Byakuya could definitely match or out-speed Ishida.Mayuri may not equal Byakuya in speed, but he's far from outclassed. Renji has enough reaction speed to block Byakuya's shunpo attack. Ishida was vice captain level before taking off the glove, and he undoubtedly got faster. Mayuri was completely caught off guard by Ishida's speed. Unless Mayuri has worst eyesight (and therefore speed) than Renji, its pretty clear that Ishida is faster than Byakuya.

First of all, Byakuya was able to block a full force Getsuuga, even if it isn't the same power of Ishida's arrow (which I HIGHLY doubt) the span of the Getsuuga is MUCH larger than an arrow point, so why wouldn't he be able to block the arrows? And this is Bleach we're talking about, Ishida isn't going to attack Byakuya while he's pulling out bankai, that doesn't ever happen. And lets see... if you DON'T think Bankai Ichigo isn't faster than Ishida, you're retarded.Ishida doesn't need to be faster than bankai Ichigo because Byakuya is not faster than Bankai Ichigo. Since Mayuri eyesight >= Renji eyesight, escaping Mayuri's eyesight shows greater speed than being unable to escape Renji's sight (which is what Byakuya could not do).

Byakuya could try to "block" arrows, but only a few petals will actually come into contact with the arrow, so the "blocking power" of Byakuya's bankai will be limited to those few petals. An arrow would easily pierce through a few petals.

[cupnoodles]

He couldn't see him move. You might need to watch the anime ep, it probably dosent show it in the manga :/
if it was only anime, then it doesn't really count.

[Wanderweiss]

So, Ichigo's eyesight improved with bankai training? lmao. Absurd.

You're a bit of an idiot
Yeah, no personal attacks please, or i'll just report you :)

He can't block the arrows because the power is compressed into a much smaller area than the getsuga. go back to physics lessons, please.

...ok now you're just ignoring facts, twit.

Byakuya broke Ichigo's sword, and Ichigo said it himself he didn't even see him move. Then when Byakuya attacked Ichigo, he didn't even see it coming, stated by Renji. This is pre-SS arc, when Rukia is taken.

He COULDN'T see him before, but now that he's strong he CAN see him. That's your basic Shounen anime right there, or is this the first you've watched?

Also, yeah I do think Mayuri is slower than Renji. Mayuri isn't a combat type, he's like Szayelaporro, he uses tricks and slights to defeat his opponent.

[Jay3205]

Also, yeah I do think Mayuri is slower than Renji. Mayuri isn't a combat type, he's like Szayelaporro, he uses tricks and slights to defeat his opponent.I think you're severely underestimating what it means to be captain. There is never any mention of Renji being fast or even using shunpo. The first time Renji is even able to see shunpo is during Soul Society. Meanwhile, CAPTAIN Mayuri, who was fast enough to dodge arrows without Ishida even realizing, is somehow slower than Renji?

Mayuri is a captain. Regardless of whether he isn't a "combat type", he has had bankai for at least 200 years (more than Byakuya), so he has at least gotten extremely high in swordsmanship and most likely shunpo. Renji is a noob who got torn up by a significantly weaker/slower/inexperienced shikai Ichigo.

[cupnoodles]

There is never any mention of Renji being fast or even using shunpo.
he was mentioned to be faster than ichigo >.>

[Jay3205]

he was mentioned to be faster than ichigo >.>Where was this?

[Wanderweiss]

What makes you think Renji couldn't see Shunpo? I'm not Underestimating Mayuri, you're underestimating Renji :\

[cupnoodles]

Where was this?
during their fight.
....xD

[Jay3205]

What makes you think Renji couldn't see Shunpo? I'm not Underestimating Mayuri, you're underestimating Renji :\When he blocks Byakuya's shunpo attack, he says something along the lines of "I've imagined that move a thousand times. Now, it seems my eyes can finally keep up". This implies that before that event, he could not see shunpo.

during their fight.
....xDThat was before Ichigo mastered shunpo though >_>.

[Seff vi Britannia]

[QUOTE=Wanderweiss]...ok now you're just ignoring facts, twit.
Byakuya broke Ichigo's sword, and Ichigo said it himself he didn't even see him move. Then when Byakuya attacked Ichigo, he didn't even see it coming, stated by Renji. This is pre-SS arc, when Rukia is taken.
[/qoute]

Haha, pre SS arc, your getting desperate. By the way, i've reported you for flaming me twice.

[Wanderweiss]

You're an idiot, and an ignorant one at that. Warn me all you like, but you start a thread and you scoff at arguments that prove you wrong. So gtfo noob

[cupnoodles]

That was before Ichigo mastered shunpo though >_>
well...yeah, i know xD
i was just making a dumb point lol ^^;;

[Zanga]

You're assuming Byakuya is faster then glove-removed Ishida? Haha. Kay seriously.

I guess someones forgetting that Ishida launched an arrow, then appeared OVER Mayuri BEFORE the arrow reached. I would not be surprised if he was as fast as Bankai Ichigo at the time.

Byakuya stands around while controlling his bankai, while Ishida speeds around while shooting arrows. It would be like Lee(without weights) vs Gaara. Just like the sand, the petals would eventually not be able to keep up and Byakuya would be dead.

Even if he managed to dodge that arrow, Ishida would send another 3 or 4, and his petal defence is not automatic like Gaara's sand, so how he would dodge that I don't know.

Anyways, Ishida all the way.

[supratt232]

First off I cant even believe people are saying Renji is faster than Mayuri. That argument itself is more than ridiculous for obvious reasons. Also it seems very reasonable that Ishida was just as fast as bankai Ichigo. That alone would allow him to sneak behind byakuya once or twice just like Ichigo did. The difference is Ishida might not be as nice and let him live.

[Seff vi Britannia]

You're an idiot, and an ignorant one at that. Warn me all you like, but you start a thread and you scoff at arguments that prove you wrong. So gtfo noob

No, i just don't appreciate being flamed. Your argument is completely invalid. The event you talk about is before Ichigo even knew Zangetsu's name and had less power then a seated shinigami. Therefore, it's irrelevant.


:To everyone else:

In addition, Ishida's arrows have a much higher concentrated/piercing power, and would be able to breach Byakuya's "shield"

[Momentum]

BYAKUYA hasn't got a chance hahahahaha he would die in SS wise too.
*Phiu* *Phiu*
''...Oh the holes in me...''

You really hate Byakuya don't you? Oh by the way thats not a valid argument and is considered as spam.

People seem to be forgetting about Byakuya's 'Scene of Massacre' and 'Final Scene.' It seems like when hes using his first form (Scene of Massacre), it looks like it traps them both because four rows of swords do surround them after all which means they'll have to go close combat.

^^ How about Final Scene? THAT increases cutting power.

[Habanero]

Phew... I don't think Byakuya could survive for more than 10 secs tbh...

Ishida was obviously a lot faster than a regular captain level shunpo, since he almost outran the arrow he shot at Mayuri, who couldn't track Ishida's movement at all. And that final blast... Little arrow ripped a bankai in half and blew captain level opponent's torso away. Ever seen any attack doing that much damage during the whole series...? Yeah, didn't think so...

[h3h3h3]

You really hate Byakuya don't you? Oh by the way thats not a valid argument and is considered as spam.

People seem to be forgetting about Byakuya's 'Scene of Massacre' and 'Final Scene.' It seems like when hes using his first form (Scene of Massacre), it looks like it traps them both because four rows of swords do surround them after all which means they'll have to go close combat.

^^ How about Final Scene? THAT increases cutting power.
No you gotta be rly retarted to even think Byakuya has any chances you guys just ignore facts. I bet you even won't look Habanero's completely valid response.
I dont hate Byakuya I made that post to provoke fangirls like you.

[Momentum]

Wow... thumbs up for provoking me... oh by the way I just don't ignore the facts I debate using those facts...

[cupnoodles]

Ever seen any attack doing that much damage during the whole series...? Yeah, didn't think so...
Aizen: Hadou kyuujuu, kurohitsugi
i'd bet uliq's cero would do more too.

How about Final Scene? THAT increases cutting power.
it'd probably break from the arrow.

[Lust]

The sixth division captain
Record:
Defeated By Kurosaki Ichigo

actually he is draw with ichigo to be precise even some of us here say ichigo pawn byakuya...anyway...


:To everyone else:
In addition, Ishida's arrows have a much higher concentrated/piercing power, and would be able to breach Byakuya's "shield"
and your prove? there noo evindence he has higher power than byakuya

[qoute=hanebaro]Ishida was obviously a lot faster than a regular captain level shunpo, since he almost outran the arrow he shot at Mayuri, who couldn't track Ishida's movement at all. And that final blast... Little arrow ripped a bankai in half and blew captain level opponent's torso away. Ever seen any attack doing that much damage during the whole series...? Yeah, didn't think so...[/quote]
hmm really? do you know byakuya is almost as fast as yoruichi,the queen of flash step? even yoruichi say byakuya improve a lot o his speed when she try to run away from him

[deng1234]

ishida would need thousands of years of training to beat byakuya it would be an interesting battle the both got impressive speed

[Habanero]

Aizen: Hadou kyuujuu, kurohitsugi

The difference is that Komamura just got badly wounded and was on his legs after a while. Ishida's arrow would have been a "one-shot-captain-kill", had Mayuri not had his weird slime technique.

i'd bet uliq's cero would do more too.

Are you saying that you've seen Ulqi doing more damage with his cero than what Ishida did with his arrow? I didn't say no one can do more damage, just that I think we haven't yet seen anyone doing.

byakuya is almost as fast as yoruichi,the queen of flash step? even yoruichi say byakuya improve a lot o his speed when she try to run away from him

There does not seem to be that drastic differences in the speed of shunpo among the non-hybrid people (Aizen excluded though). I'd imagine any captain could track Byakuya's movement since even Renji was able to do that. In conclusion, super Ishida totally outclassed captain level shunpo.

[Seff vi Britannia]

actually he is draw with ichigo to be precise even some of us here say ichigo pawn byakuya...anyway...
and your prove? there noo evindence he has higher power than byakuya
[qoute=hanebaro]Ishida was obviously a lot faster than a regular captain level shunpo, since he almost outran the arrow he shot at Mayuri, who couldn't track Ishida's movement at all. And that final blast... Little arrow ripped a bankai in half and blew captain level opponent's torso away. Ever seen any attack doing that much damage during the whole series...? Yeah, didn't think so...
hmm really? do you know byakuya is almost as fast as yoruichi,the queen of flash step? even yoruichi say byakuya improve a lot o his speed when she try to run away from him[/QUOTE]

The evidence is science. The power is compressed to a point, giving it far more force.

[Jay3205]

and your prove? there noo evindence he has higher power than byakuyaIt's simple. Ishida packs bankai destroying power into a small arrow. At best, Byakuya packs bankai destroying power divided up by hundreds of millions of petals. However, since all X-hundred million petals can't block Ishida's tiny arrow, the arrow will pierce through.

hmm really? do you know byakuya is almost as fast as yoruichi,the queen of flash step? even yoruichi say byakuya improve a lot o his speed when she try to run away from himActually, Byakuya is nowhere near as fast as Yoruichi. Yoruichi could outstep Byakuya while carrying Ichigo (and his giant sword), which together is at least 2x Yoruichi's normal weight. This means she was 3x heavier (and slower) than normal, which was still faster than Byakuya.

[cupnoodles]

The difference is that Komamura just got badly wounded and was on his legs after a while. Ishida's arrow would have been a "one-shot-captain-kill", had Mayuri not had his weird slime technique.
mayuri was hit twice by his arrow before turning into slime. he didn't survive those two shots because he can turn into slime, he used his zanpaktou to turn himself into slime because he got shot...and he was still conscious.
komamura just fainted on the spot.

It's simple. Ishida packs bankai destroying power into a small arrow. At best, Byakuya packs bankai destroying power divided up by hundreds of millions of petals. However, since all X-hundred million petals can't block Ishida's tiny arrow, the arrow will pierce through.
i don't know what you consider bankai destroying power, but byakuya has destroyed a bankai before with his senbonzakura kageyoshi..the pink flowers.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Mayuri had a hole ripped in his chest wheras Konamura just fainted. I know whose shoes i'd rather be in.

[cupnoodles]

he was just bleeding from the first shot.
komamura fainted from the first kidou.

[Jay3205]

i don't know what you consider bankai destroying power, but byakuya has destroyed a bankai before with his senbonzakura kageyoshi..the pink flowers.I'm just saying that all that power that could destroy a bankai is divided up among many petals. Since Byakuya can't use all his petals to block a small arrow, much of his bankai's power would be useless when trying to block Ishida's attacks.

[Habanero]

mayuri was hit twice by his arrow before turning into slime. he didn't survive those two shots because he can turn into slime, he used his zanpaktou to turn himself into slime because he got shot...and he was still conscious.
komamura just fainted on the spot.

Imo that just shows how badass Mayuri is :p

But yeah you're right about one thing, he got shot twice. "Only bleeding" is quite an understatement though, when your arm is ripped off from the shoulder. The 2nd arrow still cut a bankai in half and blew his torso away. Good luck recovering from that, no matter who you are.

Well, you can have your opinion. But to me it's pretty clear that Ishida at that time was quite a lot more powerful than majority of the captains. If not all.

[cupnoodles]

it looked more like he spent most of it destroying the structure behind renji for more visual effects xD
but yeah, there's no way his flowers can block ishida's arrows.

But yeah you're right about one thing, he got shot twice. "Only bleeding" is quite an understatement though, when your arm is ripped off from the shoulder. The 2nd arrow still cut a bankai in half and blew his torso away. Good luck recovering from that, no matter who you are.
well when you consider what could happen to mayuri with 2 failed lvl 90 kidous, it's most likely a corpse, since he can't turn to slime if he faints from the first attack.
i'd say ishida was above most captains, but i wouldn't be surprised if yamaji still owns him.

[jack_zenith]

Yama could own anybody in the Soul Society arc, with possible exception of Aizen.

[L'Arc Enzeru]

Byakuya just have to dodge all Arrows while he keeps attacking with his BAN KAI, then release the Annihilation scape, I think Byakuya is faster that Full Released Ishida...

[h3h3h3]

It's bit unfair for Byakuya because Ishida can have his super saiyan forces, lets give Byakuya 10x powers then debate.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Byakuya just have to dodge all Arrows while he keeps attacking with his BAN KAI, then release the Annihilation scape, I think Byakuya is faster that Full Released Ishida...

Ishida is too fast for Byakuya in his final form, in addition, bankai does not increase Byakuya's speed, and Ishida can cut through it. Anhiliationscape would make it even worse for Byakuya, as it dosen't seem he can use his petals for (an albeit limited) defense in this form.

[cupnoodles]

his shield of petals are like tofu against ishida's arrows, so there's really no point. it's either dodge or die for him.
hakuteiken is his best chance to fend against the arrows, though i'm not sure how likely that would be. note that i'm not saying head to head clash against the arrow, but more in the sense of deflecting it to the side.
either way, he'll most likely end up with holes all over the place in the end.

[Seff vi Britannia]

We haven't really seen WIS's abilities, but i'd imagine it's purley offensive. Ichigo said the only way to prevent it was to pour all his reamining reiatsu into a single attack. So i'd imagine it has little to no defensive capabilities.

[cupnoodles]

well i'm assuming hakuteiken has no defensive capabilities, but an arrow only has force in the direction it's headed, so if you just hit its side, the arrow'll stray from it's path.
but given the speed of the arrows, i doubt byakuya can keep it up for long before being turned to swiss cheese.

[Seff vi Britannia]

I totally agree with you. Ishida is just too fast and too powerful.

[deng1234]

oh wow why bring mayuri in this mayuri is damn weak im sayin that if byakuya released his second form of bankai which lowers the speed of the opponet and make him look like he got faster and when ishida does his final form which increases spped it would be cool yorouchi is not even to be brought into this category she is just stronger than both of them

[Seff vi Britannia]

Byakuya's senkei does not raise his speed at all. Please watch the anime before commenting on it.

[Domhnall]

Ishida hands down.

Reading through all the arguements it is pretty obvious that Super Quincy is significantly faster and more powerful than Byakuya.

I mean his shot ripped straight through a Captain's ban kai and not only pierced his chest but pretty much destroyed his chest.

Also I'm pretty sure it seemed like Byakuya was getting faster because Ishida hadn't mastered his ban kai. He was losing speed because it was too powerful for him to control. At least that's from my non-looked up memory.

[Zanga]

I mean his shot ripped straight through a Captain's ban kai and not only pierced his chest but pretty much destroyed his chest.

Don't forget half of Sereitei behind him.....


It kept going LOL. And I believe you meant Ichigo :P

[h3h3h3]

if byakuya released his second form of bankai which lowers the speed of the opponet and make him look like he got faster and when ishida
No...No... Uhmm... No?

[Lust]

The evidence is science. The power is compressed to a point, giving it far more force.
well,byakuya petal can block ichigo bankai mode attack....that mean its armor is high and the arrow cant penetrate it..thus read super ishida vs ichigo tread since i am lazy to typ all of those thing in here

[Jay3205]

The area of Ichigo's sword is far higher than that of of an arrow tip, and his sword strikes are much slower than an arrow. Hollow Ichigo when he successfully got off 1 normal sword strike only managed to cut Byakuya. Ishida, with 1 "normal" arrow, completely blew through a bankai and a captain. It's pretty obvious that Ishida packs a whole lot more power in his arrows than bankai-hollow Ichigo does in his sword strikes.

[cupnoodles]

The area of Ichigo's sword is far higher than that of of an arrow tip, and his sword strikes are much slower than an arrow. Hollow Ichigo when he successfully got off 1 normal sword strike only managed to cut Byakuya. Ishida, with 1 "normal" arrow, completely blew through a bankai and a captain. It's pretty obvious that Ishida packs a whole lot more power in his arrows than bankai-hollow Ichigo does in his sword strikes.
okay, the attack byakuya blocked with his petals was an attack ichigo launched while moving. ichigo's movement speed alone was faster than ishida's arrow speed, his strike speed was equal to his movement speed + slashing speed. clearly, that strike was faster than any arrows ishida ever shot.

and this is mayuri. he did experiments on his own body. it could very well be that he loses limbs easier than the ordinary captain. you can't really compare the attack power of ogichi's getsuga tenshou and ishida's arrows based on that.

well,byakuya petal can block ichigo bankai mode attack....that mean its armor is high and the arrow cant penetrate it..thus read super ishida vs ichigo tread since i am lazy to typ all of those thing in here
arrow is a piercing weapon, they pierce far better than a slashing attack. ishida's super arrows pack more power than ichigo's sword strike anyways. petals aren't gonna block it.

The evidence is science. The power is compressed to a point, giving it far more force.
dunno where this quote came from, but whoever it was, i hope you know power is the result of force and velocity.
compressing only changes density, not mass. you can argue the velocity/acceleration would increase due to less air friction, but it would make minior difference.

[Jay3205]

okay, the attack byakuya blocked with his petals was an attack ichigo launched while moving. ichigo's movement speed alone was faster than ishida's arrow speed, his strike speed was equal to his movement speed + slashing speed. clearly, that strike was faster than any arrows ishida ever shot.Ichigo can move fast, but he never lands an attack at high speed. He nearly always attacks after he is done using shunpo/moving fast. When Byakuya blocked, Ichigo shunpo'd in front of him, then did a separate strike which did not utilize any sort of high speed.

dunno where this quote came from, but whoever it was, i hope you know power is the result of force and velocity.
compressing only changes density, not mass. you can argue the velocity/acceleration would increase due to less air friction, but it would make minior difference.I think he means the damage, as something that is more compressed will do more effective damage than an attack of similar power but is not as compressed.

[Seff vi Britannia]

The point is, an arrow with a small point pentrates far greater than a sword with a wide edge. Also, Bankai Ichigo may be faster than Ishida, but it dosen't really matter when you can shoot arrows that fast, that are actually going to get through senbonsakura.

[cupnoodles]

Ichigo can move fast, but he never lands an attack at high speed. He nearly always attacks after he is done using shunpo/moving fast. When Byakuya blocked, Ichigo shunpo'd in front of him, then did a separate strike which did not utilize any sort of high speed.
are you kidding me? you want to tell me he only slashes when he's standing still?
he pressed his sword against byakuya's throat without being seen. if he only swings his sword after coming to a halt, both his moving speed and swinging speed would be beyond what byakuya can see.

and mayuri was easily able to see ishida's arrows, all he said was that it was fast, smirked, and claims he can dodge it. there's absolutely no reason to think it was unimaginably ridiculously stupid fast.

The point is, an arrow with a small point pentrates far greater than a sword with a wide edge. Also, Bankai Ichigo may be faster than Ishida, but it dosen't really matter when you can shoot arrows that fast, that are actually going to get through senbonsakura.
yeah, i agree. that's kinda where i was going with my piercing vs slashing attacks comment.

[Jay3205]

are you kidding me? you want to tell me he only slashes when he's standing still?
he pressed his sword against byakuya's throat without being seen. if he only swings his sword after coming to a halt, both his moving speed and swinging speed would be beyond what byakuya can see.I never said he can only slash while still. I said he only lands hits when he is not moving at high speed. When Byakuya blocked his attack, Ichigo was not moving high speed or using shunpo while attacking.

[cupnoodles]

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8303/mangarainbleachch16309yy7.png
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5996/mangarainbleachch16310nu1.png
he was moving at extremely high speed even when he was a few feet from byakuya. he did a quick turn to dodge the petals, went low, and leapt at byakuya.
you know what inertia is? it wasn't a shunpo, he was running, so you must know if ichigo was moving at extreme speeds, he's not gonna be able to slow down much when he's 2 feet away.

[II Xion II]

Ishida.

He owned a bankai Mayuri in seconds in his final form.

He has unlimited bankai-crushing arrows.

He moved so fast Mayuri could not even follow it.

Assuming he could hold the form indefinitely, Byakuya would not stand much of a chance.

Also, didn't Ishida only break one arm of the gauntlet. Thus he had one wing of spirit particles. What if he broke both, it would only make sense for him to thus have two wings and a final, final form even above the previous one. Then Byakuya (who is highly overrated, come on, he was in serious trouble against a pathetic, bankai Ichigo) would be screwed. Ishida's final, final form would be like Rock Lee opening up all eight gates.

[Zanga]

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8303/mangarainbleachch16309yy7.png
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5996/mangarainbleachch16310nu1.png
he was moving at extremely high speed even when he was a few feet from byakuya. he did a quick turn to dodge the petals, went low, and leapt at byakuya.
you know what inertia is? it wasn't a shunpo, he was running, so you must know if ichigo was moving at extreme speeds, he's not gonna be able to slow down much when he's 2 feet away.

His slashing speed DID NOT INCREASE. The ONLY thing that has increased was his movement speed. You're judging a leap from paper? That slash came downward(look at the little lines coming downward off the sword) So that means, Ichigo dodged the petals, got low, got back up and slashed, and then was blocked by Byakuya, who didn't even use his hands to double his speed.

The point of Zangetsu's training was to teach Ichigo how to fight properly, because all he knew how to do was dodge and cut, no real swordsmanship. After learning that Ichigo has Swordsminship, power, the badass outfit, but there was something she still needed to maximize all these traits to their fullest, which is what his bankai contributed, which is supersonic speed.

[Zanga]

No one ever said he fully stops. But Ichigo does not start his slash from 8 miles away then shunpos over to his enemy to finish his slash making it more powerful from the speed and distance he covered.

[cupnoodles]

what the heck are you reading? i never said any of that. i just said he was moving while he performed a slash. you're agreeing with me then.

[Jay3205]

To me, it looks like he shunpo'd in front of Byakuya, then attacked (thus shunpo speed not affecting his slash). Inertia apparently does not exist in Bleach as characters can instantly accelerate/decelerate using shunpo.

[cupnoodles]

shunpo doesn't exist in reality, so i'm assuming it's some sort of odd mobility technique, which isn't affected by inertia. however, ganju has proven it takes time to come to a stop when running before, so inertia definitely exists.

it looked like running to me, but that doesn't even matter. the point is byakuya couldn't see ichigo's movement. the speed at which ichigo thrusted his sword at byakuya's throat must've been faster than his eyes can see.
by saying he was standing still when he slashed would imply his slashing speed alone is faster than ishida's arrow.

[theblack_dragon]

Ishida hands down.
Reading through all the arguements it is pretty obvious that Super Quincy is significantly faster and more powerful than Byakuya.
I mean his shot ripped straight through a Captain's ban kai and not only pierced his chest but pretty much destroyed his chest.
Also I'm pretty sure it seemed like Byakuya was getting faster because Ishida hadn't mastered his ban kai. He was losing speed because it was too powerful for him to control. At least that's from my non-looked up memory.

hmmm i disagree cause if push comes to shove annialatonscope well destroy the quincy

[Seff vi Britannia]

Anhiliationscape makes it harder for BYakuya by reducing the space that he has to TRY and avoid Ishidaa in.

[cupnoodles]

you can't win by running away forever if ishida has no time limit. considering ishida's a long range fighter, it's to byakuya's advantage to go up in close combat, as swords attack way faster than bows.
even final form ishida could die if he was standing right next to byakuya in senkei.
it's the archer that needs to keep his distance from the dude with the sword, not the other way around. luckily, he's most likely faster than byakuya.

"oh, but byakuya would die if he was shot at point blank range!"
...yes...but he'd die either way. may as well maximize his slim chances of victory.

[Sin]

Byakuya definitely wins this, no point even trying to argue for Ishida. He can't do the quincy final form anymore so its pointless.

However if he had the final form i think he could possibly seriously Fck up Byakuya something fierce!!

[Reyin]

Basically my take on this would be that because we don't really know the true speed of the shot we can't really say. Mayuri didn't expect it to blow a 4 foot hole in his body let alone tear through his Bankai, so we don't know if he had time to move, or if he was just overconfident. Byakuya being one of the fastest characters in the series as far as we know, may be able to successfully evade it and if Uryuu can't hit him, then it's pretty obvious who would win. Now in the scenario where it is too fast, I don't think Byakuya would be able to block it. The thing is, I don't think he would give Uryuu a chance to fire it.

[Seff vi Britannia]

lol 1 yr bump.

Chi, this isn't Ishida versus Byakuya anyway. It's Sanrei released Ishida so assume that Ishida is in his final form. (obviously.)

And, Byakuya, one of the fastest characters in Bleach?
...

I don't think so...

[Sin]

lol 1 yr bump.

Chi, this isn't Ishida versus Byakuya anyway. It's Sanrei released Ishida so assume that Ishida is in his final form. (obviously.)

And, Byakuya, one of the fastest characters in Bleach?
...

I don't think so...

:biggrinki i found it interesting for like two mins

I did also assume Ishida and his final form and given the speed he displayed and the speed of his arrows esp they were in SS he got a major power boost. So it would depend on where they fought. In soul society Byakuya is done for because the speed and ferocity of the arrow was far greater then GT and i that hit byakuya so i think Ishida would have it then.

But in the real world with the limiter taken off Byakuya would beat him, though it wouldn't be a decisive victory.

Also you can't deny byakuya's speed... he is fast, he beat the fastest espada after all.

[Lightey Natsume]

Bya Wins this match easily bya is smart and would greatly reduce the space between ishida and him wich gives him the greater advantage.

[ninjabot]

Let's not forget that the speed Final Form Ishida displayed was against Mayuri, a captain that's not praised for his speed to begin with. Against Byakuya, someone who IS praised for their speed things would not have gone down so quickly. Thanks to shunpo, cicada, and kido, Byakuya has nothing to worry about.

If Uryu had his newest bow then he could hit him with a hail of thousands of arrows...MAYBE. Then again Byakuya only needs to get close once.