Byakuya vs. Toshiro

[Starlight]

I don't know if this is already made, but if it isn't discuss. :whatevah:

[Jay3205]

I'm pretty sure it has been made and Byakuya won. There's no way Hitsugaya could win.

[FullMetal Rebel]

Byakuya has mastered his bankai,Hitsugaya has barely scratched the surface of his.Byakuya wins

[h3h3h3]

Yea Byakuya takes this easily but I still voted for Hitsu xD

[Seff vi Britannia]

Hitsugaya wins because i'm being a fanboy. No, i don't like Hitsugaya. -_-

((lawl. more votes for hits than Bya))

[Undying]

I don't believe Hitsugaya fanboys/girls actually think he can win =_=.

[diamondedge]

lol @ h3h3h3 xD;;

Guess who I voted for.

[Undying]

One look at your sig and I don't need to guess :).

[Seff vi Britannia]

haha. Undy lays down the ownage.

[Guy]

Wow, I've seen this thread before... not surprising.

Byakuya wins this one. Hitsugaya is barely around Renji's level, and if Byakuya can so easily pwn Renji, then he can definitely pwn Hitsugaya.

@everyone who voted for Hitsu: I like to listen as to why you'd vote for him.

[h3h3h3]

Why they vote him? Because there are certain people called ''Fanboys''.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Yes, i voted for Hits because i'm being a Hits fanboy.


I don't even like hits. >__>

[Undying]

Yes, i voted for Hits because i'm being a Hits fanboy.


I don't even like hits. >__>
You voted for Hits because you hate Byakuya, that's another type of fanboy, the ANTI-fanboy.

[Dexter]

haha. Undy lays down the ownage.
Again.



So obvious I don't see the need to actually create the thread..

Kuchiki Byakuya.

[Guy]

You voted for Hits because you hate Byakuya, that's another type of fanboy, the ANTI-fanboy.

OMG, lmao, rofl, *is still laughing* Damn, ownage right there!

Darkseff and h3h3h3 need to shut up with their "fanboyism". Hating someone just because of his fans is utterly hypocritical. Yes, darkseff and h3h3h3, this is directed at you. I'm sick and tired of having to see you put the words "fanboys" in every thread that even remotely mentions Byakuya. Stop attacking the fans and actually use evidence.

[h3h3h3]

We actually use evidence unlike 90% of Byakuya fanboys.

[Seff vi Britannia]

*yawn*

i can see another flame war coming on, which i'm not going to part of.

All i can say is i voted for Hits out of fandom (even though im not a fan) because someone voted for Byakuya in Byakuya v Grimmjow out of fandom.

Byakuya obviously wins this, Hitsugaya phails.

[Undying]

Hey, hey, hey, don't take my statement out of context please. I was talking about the vote only.

[h3h3h3]

Well I like arguments I always go lmao they take it seriously,.Yes Hitsugaya will get OWNED HARD. Pointless thread.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Actually, i just found some queer logic.

Because people say that Luppi was the same strength as Grimmjow (even though he wasn't),
we can use this logic:
Hitsugaya > Luppi = Grimmjow > Bankai Ichigo > Bankai byakuya
therefore, Hitsugaya > Byakuya.

[diamondedge]

Actually, i just found some queer logic.

Because people say that Luppi was the same strength as Grimmjow (even though he wasn't),
we can use this logic:
Hitsugaya > Luppi = Grimmjow > Bankai Ichigo > Bankai byakuya
therefore, Hitsugaya > Byakuya.

You can't make such conclusions until we actually see Byakuya going against an Arrancar. Renji defeated an Arrancar like Hitsu did, yet Byakuya owns Renji anytime, so by this kind of logic Byakuya is still light years before Hitsu. ;) (Renji fought 15th espada, while Hitsu did 11th, so the power gap between those isn't really that big)

[Seff vi Britannia]

the non-espada arrancar are ranked by birth, not power.

However, if, as some people claim. Luppi was on grimmjows level, then Hitsugaya would be on/more than grimmjows level. So, unless you're implying that Byakuya > Grimmjow...

Anyway , i don't think Luppi was anything. Just something peculiar i found in my head ^_^

[Undying]

Actually, I haven't seen one solid proof that Edorado wasn't the strongest arrancar in the group beside Grimmjow.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Meh, it's between Shawlong and Edorado, and Edorado's Ierro is clearly higher than Shawlongs, so it would be reasonable to assume that Edorado was the stonrgest apart from Grimmy.

[ninjabot]

Bravo! Anti-Fanboyism...sounds cool. It'll be useful in the future, thanks. I'll throw that one out there in the next "Cloud vs. whoever" anime arena battle. And am I the only one that's noticed the anti-fanboys are more ornery, stubborn, and ignorant than the actual fanboys they claim to "put in their place" with their sophisticated "I hate the stuff you like, so you're ghey" talk? Hmm.

Byakuya really should pull a Tienshenhan and just appear out of nowhere with a new character design and more power. Let him boost up enough to take down an espada. Rukia beat 9...he should be able to take 7...

And to prevent my post from being little more than ranting off topic: Byakuya wins.

[Undying]

I do not know this Cloud you speak off... truly, the only Clouds I knew are the ones in the skies. I do however firmly believe that there is no basis whatsoever to "Hitsugaya can beat anyone with power" theory.

[FullMetal Rebel]

I do not know this Cloud you speak off... truly, the only Clouds I knew are the ones in the skies. I do however firmly believe that there is no basis whatsoever to "Hitsugaya can beat anyone with power" theory.

Infamous Cloud from ff7(overated) along with Sephiroth(UBER MEGA OVERATED) two overated characters.

[ninjabot]

Ahem...anti fanboyism. Does anyone on this forum know what overrated means? It means it gains more praise than it deserves. Everyone that states FF7 is the best rpg ever is basing their decision on their own priorities, who are we to tell them that they're wrong? If they like it, they like it, that's the basis of their fandom. Let it be...

Same goes for Byakuya. You can never tell someone who thinks Byakuya is awesome, that he isn't awesome, because they decide what's awesome to themselves. Sure being biased is wrong, but no one, NO ONE in the history of the interweb has ever posted "I think this character would beat this character because I like them better". But that's all anti-fanboy fascists hear when someone dares to disagree with them, no matter how many sensible reasons they give for the other guy winning, everyone just considers it fanboy nonsense. Tis a sad situation indeed.

[sweeter]

Byakuya wins because he's fast enough to dodge Hitsugaya's attacks, and Senbonzakura can destroy Hitsugaya before his Bankai limit even ends. Really, now.

(:

[Undying]

Ahem...anti fanboyism. Does anyone on this forum know what overrated means? It means it gains more praise than it deserves. Everyone that states FF7 is the best rpg ever is basing their decision on their own priorities, who are we to tell them that they're wrong? If they like it, they like it, that's the basis of their fandom. Let it be...
Same goes for Byakuya. You can never tell someone who thinks Byakuya is awesome, that he isn't awesome, because they decide what's awesome to themselves. Sure being biased is wrong, but no one, NO ONE in the history of the interweb has ever posted "I think this character would beat this character because I like them better". But that's all anti-fanboy fascists hear when someone dares to disagree with them, no matter how many sensible reasons they give for the other guy winning, everyone just considers it fanboy nonsense. Tis a sad situation indeed.
Once I figure out what are saying... maybe I'll understand better what is this Cloud you're saying and why is he overrated. And by the way, if Cloud beats every one of his enemies without any form of trouble, why is he "overrated"?

[h3h3h3]

lol Ninja cry more... Byakuya >>>>>>>>>>>> Hitsugaya, Byakuya just shunpo behind him and destroy him totally.

[Guy]

Actually, i just found some queer logic.

Because people say that Luppi was the same strength as Grimmjow (even though he wasn't),
we can use this logic:
Hitsugaya > Luppi = Grimmjow > Bankai Ichigo > Bankai byakuya
therefore, Hitsugaya > Byakuya.

WTF? So Hitsugaya is stronger than bankai Ichigo now? Luppi sucks and he didn't even got killed by Hitsugaya. Hitsugaya barely killed Shawlong with the limit, so unless Shawlong is slightly weaker than Luppi, that is absolute BS. In addition, the fact that you think Grimmjaw equals Luppi made me laugh.

Grimmjaw utterly squashed the life out of Luppi with ONE move. How can you possibly be equal if you get taken out with one move??

Hitsugaya is the weakest captain in Bleach. Byakuya>>>>>>> Hitsugaya.

[Undying]

Um, but Luppi was still called 6th Espada. For some people, it's enough of an evidence to state that Luppi is stronger than Shawlong, and because Hitsugaya managed to "own" him (with the uber hax attack he loaded for three chapters), it is enough evidence that HITSUGAYA IS SUPER HAX MEGA.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Guy, i've already said i don't agree with that, so dun "wtfx???????!???ONE!??" me.
Sheesh, learn to read. I quite clearly state, in brackets, that i don't agree Luppi=Grimmjow. Nub.
Psssch.

Just saying, If Luppi had the power of Grimmjow, which some people believe he did, due to rank, then Hitsugaya is stronger than Grimmjow, Ichigo (nomask) and Byakuya. =]

Anyway, your one move point is a bit bad really :/

Matsumoto could kill Byakuya in move if Byakuya stood there and didn't expect the attack. Actually, so could Ikkaku.
And Ganju.
hanatarou could probably manage it too.
Did i mention Karin?
Hell, If Byakuya was standing still and didn't expect the attack, i reckon Kon could take him out.

As i already said, Byakuya>Hits.
Mind you, with no comparison between Byakuya and the Arrancar, we can't really tell. :S

[davidn15]

this is common sense. a little senbonzakura action and it's all over

[Guy]

Um, but Luppi was still called 6th Espada. For some people, it's enough of an evidence to state that Luppi is stronger than Shawlong, and because Hitsugaya managed to "own" him (with the uber hax attack he loaded for three chapters), it is enough evidence that HITSUGAYA IS SUPER HAX MEGA.

Undying is actually giving Hitsugaya credit??? OMG, this ought to be headline news! :P

Ahem, anyways, if I remember correctly, Hitsugaya wasn't exactly owning Luppi. In fact, Luppi had much of the upperhand of the battle. And if Hitsugaya is allowed to life the limit in this battle, I don't see why Byakuya shouldn't be allowed to.

Anyway, your one move point is a bit bad really :/

Matsumoto could kill Byakuya in move if Byakuya stood there and didn't expect the attack. Actually, so could Ikkaku.
And Ganju.
hanatarou could probably manage it too.
Did i mention Karin?
Hell, If Byakuya was standing still and didn't expect the attack, i reckon Kon could take him out.

WTF? Matsumoto? Kon? OGICHI couldn't even take Byakuya out with a one hit move from Kuroi Getsuga Tenshou! What the hell makes you think Kon can do the same thing?

[Seff vi Britannia]

Let's think, Byakuya is standing still, is completely not expecting the attack, and Kon comes up behind him with a sword and slices his throat. That'd be Byakuya dead then, yep?

Or does he have self-ressurection/auto-life?

¬________________________¬

[Jay3205]

Yes, assuming the people actually have enough reiatsu to cut the person, anybody can kill anybody. As strong as getsuga tenshou might be, taking a hit from it will not be as fatal as taking a sword through the heart/head/throat.

Shikai senbonzakura is probably the worst shikai for facing captains or above. It has absolutely no defense. Either way, Byakuya's kidou and bankai are too great to be beaten by Hitsugaya.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Shinigami have never been shown to posses any form of ierro, therefore, Kon could kill Byakuya.

[Guy]

Shinigami have never been shown to posses any form of ierro, therefore, Kon could kill Byakuya.

And Kon could kill Aizen, according to your theory then.

[diamondedge]

Let's think, Byakuya is standing still, is completely not expecting the attack, and Kon comes up behind him with a sword and slices his throat. That'd be Byakuya dead then, yep?

First of all, Byakuya would never just stand still and if anyone is always on guard, that is him. Second of all, EVERYONE would die standing still, not just Byakuya. What kind of nonsense is that? That aint a battle, that would be "how fast can <insert character here> dia if someone is beating the crap out of him and he isn't moving?

Don't be bullshitting with this in this thread with pointless and impossible theories now.

[Jay3205]

^^ You completely missed the point. He never said that would actually happen. What he said was perfectly reasonable... if someone is not expecting an attack, they are able to be killed through surprise. There's nothing impossible about it. The arrancar Rukia faced is a prime example of this... he was killed much due to the "surprise" effect of Rukia's attack. If he knew he'd be frozen from before, he would probably not have been killed. Of course in battle, Kon wouldn't kill Byakuya as long as Byakuya knows he's fighting.

Secondly, nobody is always "on guard". To surprise someone, all you need to do is do something they didn't expect. Byakuya has been surprised multiple times before, so don't act like he's always on guard for every possible scenario. If someone comes up with a knife and stabs him in the head while he's talking to another captain, he'd be killed.

[Guy]

^^ You completely missed the point. He never said that would actually happen. What he said was perfectly reasonable... if someone is not expecting an attack, they are able to be killed through surprise. There's nothing impossible about it. The arrancar Rukia faced is a prime example of this... he was killed much due to the "surprise" effect of Rukia's attack. If he knew he'd be frozen from before, he would probably not have been killed. Of course in battle, Kon wouldn't kill Byakuya as long as Byakuya knows he's fighting.

Secondly, nobody is always "on guard". To surprise someone, all you need to do is do something they didn't expect. Byakuya has been surprised multiple times before, so don't act like he's always on guard for every possible scenario. If someone comes up with a knife and stabs him in the head while he's talking to another captain, he'd be killed.

Ah, yes, same with Aizen. The perfect strategy is to catch Aizen off guard and kill him quickly, right? Perfect end to Bleach.

Ogichi caught Byakuya completely offguard, did he die? Nope. Only someone who is way, WAY stronger than another person in Bleach can possibly do that. And if Darkseff was serioius, then I would also say, "You think Hitsugaya can last that long against Grimmjaw, since you think Luppi and Grimmjaw are equal?"

[Yanniv]

I'm going with Byakuya over Toshiro. I don't see Toshiro being much of anything at the moment.

[Jay3205]

Ah, yes, same with Aiz.en. The perfect strategy is to catch Aizen off guard and kill him quickly, right? Perfect end to Bleach.If someone was somehow able to catch Aizen off guard, then yes, they would be able to kill him. Yoruichi said she would cut off Aizen's head. Since Aizen didn't just laugh in her face and start throwing her off, he likely knew they could easily carry out that threat.

Ogichi caught Byakuya completely offguard, did he die? Nope. Only someone who is way, WAY stronger than another person in Bleach can possibly do that.You're saying that a fighter like Hollow Ichigo could kill Byakuya through an extended fight, but he could not kill Byakuya through a surprise stab through the head? But then again, Ichigo COULD have killed Byakuya in his initial speed attack.

It seems you've assumed that "Didn't" = "Couldn't", which is not true. You've said Ogichi didn't kill Byakuya, so he couldn't have killed him, which is wrong. It's like saying "Aizen didn't kill Ichigo with his sword strike, so there is no way he could have killed him." Obviously that's wrong.

Ogichi COULD have just stabbed Byakuya in the head and killed him just like Ichigo COULD have just slit Byakuya's throat in the first attack despite being the same strength as Byakuya. There is no magical law that prevents fatal attacks from surprise attackers. A head stab means nearly instant death. If you do it through surprise, there is a good chance the opponent won't see it coming and hence have no way to defend... no strength required.

As flashy as all the attacks in Bleach are, none are as fatal as a sword through the head or heart (except Mayuri and Soi Fon's abilities, since random zanpakutou "wound sealing" can't delay death in those cases). Getsuga tenshou, Byakuya's bankai, and even Yamamoto's "burn everything to ash" is less fatal than a stab through the head.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Yes, if Aizen stood still and let Kon walk up to him with a dagger, Kon could kill Aizen. Of course, we're presuming none of the characters would. (stand still)

Because your luppi example was redundant. he stayed in the same place, and he wasn't expecting/didn't see the attack coming, therefore Hits got him in the Ice Prison. If Byakuya stood still, Hits could do the same.

Or does your hero have godmode now?

(of/c nobody in bleach does this so ultimately, my point matters little. Just pointing something out. )

I find it amusing how viciously you guys react to but a simple point. My, my.

*sigh*

[h3h3h3]

lol lol lol Byakuya wins toushiro lol lol lol

[Guy]

If someone was somehow able to catch Aizen off guard, then yes, they would be able to kill him. Yoruichi said she would cut off Aizen's head. Since Aizen didn't just laugh in her face and start throwing her off, he likely knew they could easily carry out that threat.

No, Aizen only did it to show everyone he had the menos on his side. Seriously, at that moment, Aizen could have crushed Yoruichi with his reaitsu if he wanted to. He wanted everyone in SS to know that he is now the new "god" of the world by teaming up with the menos.

You're saying that a fighter like Hollow Ichigo could kill Byakuya through an extended fight, but he could not kill Byakuya through a surprise stab through the head? But then again, Ichigo COULD have killed Byakuya in his initial speed attack.

It seems you've assumed that "Didn't" = "Couldn't", which is not true. You've said Ogichi didn't kill Byakuya, so he couldn't have killed him, which is wrong. It's like saying "Aizen didn't kill Ichigo with his sword strike, so there is no way he could have killed him." Obviously that's wrong.

Ogichi COULD have just stabbed Byakuya in the head and killed him just like Ichigo COULD have just slit Byakuya's throat in the first attack despite being the same strength as Byakuya. There is no magical law that prevents fatal attacks from surprise attackers. A head stab means nearly instant death. If you do it through surprise, there is a good chance the opponent won't see it coming and hence have no way to defend... no strength required.

As flashy as all the attacks in Bleach are, none are as fatal as a sword through the head or heart (except Mayuri and Soi Fon's abilities, since random zanpakutou "wound sealing" can't delay death in those cases). Getsuga tenshou, Byakuya's bankai, and even Yamamoto's "burn everything to ash" is less fatal than a stab through the head.

In real life, what you say is true. In Bleach, however, it just doesn't make sense. If, at the SS arc, everyone knew it was Ichigo to kill, then why didn't they all just aim for Ichigo's head? Hell, why bother to learn bankai at all, if all that was required is to shoot them in the head? Just bring a machine gun to Hueco Mundo and shoot everyone's head. There, end of winter war. That simple.

Yes, if Aizen stood still and let Kon walk up to him with a dagger, Kon could kill Aizen. Of course, we're presuming none of the characters would. (stand still)

No, he cannot. Kon can never cut through Aizen's reiatsu that he leaks out unconsciously. If Zaraki has reiatsu that he leaks out unconsciously, there is no doubt in my mind that Aizen's reiatsu that leaks out unconsciously if far stronger than that of Zaraki's.

(of/c nobody in bleach does this so ultimately, my point matters little. Just pointing something out. )

I find it amusing how viciously you guys react to but a simple point. My, my.

*sigh*

If it will never happen, then why bother bringing it up in a debate? Are you trying to screw up your credibility or what?

[Seff vi Britannia]

No, i was merely posting something i found interesting. I'm surprised you read it, you tend to just scream

"Byakuya!Byakuya!Byakuya!"

Whenever you see his name in the topic :S

Meh.

Byakuya wins, toshiro phails. End of.

[Jay3205]

No, Aizen only did it to show everyone he had the menos on his side. Seriously, at that moment, Aizen could have crushed Yoruichi with his reaitsu if he wanted to. He wanted everyone in SS to know that he is now the new "god" of the world by teaming up with the menos.Nothing immediately takes effect. If Yoruichi felt pressure, then Aizen's head would've came off. Aizen's face clearly shows he was not in his usual "smile while killing you" mood when Yoruichi and Soi Fon came. They could've killed Aizen, but they would've been killed by the menos.

In real life, what you say is true. In Bleach, however, it just doesn't make sense. If, at the SS arc, everyone knew it was Ichigo to kill, then why didn't they all just aim for Ichigo's head? Hell, why bother to learn bankai at all, if all that was required is to shoot them in the head? Just bring a machine gun to Hueco Mundo and shoot everyone's head. There, end of winter war. That simple.Again, you're assuming didn't = couldn't.

Firstly, if everyone did "what makes sense", then the manga would've been over by chapter 2. Rukia would've just stabbed Ichigo and reabsorbed her powers; manga over. Urahara could've just killed Byakuya and Renji when they came to Earth, seeing as they were limited to 20% power. Of course, if you want to write a manga that actually makes money, that's not the thing to do. There is no coming back from head injuries, unlike body cuts where they can fall down and have a flashback for 5 chapters before someone heals them.

The only person to get stabbed in the head in the manga died, and it was by a nearly dead, significantly weaker opponent. Without surprise, this type of thing is hard to accomplish, but when two people are just standing next to each other and one decides to chop the other in half (Grimmjaw against Luppi), it's not very difficult, so don't start saying surprise kills are impossible because it's obvious it can happen.

[diamondedge]

Ah, yes, same with Aizen. The perfect strategy is to catch Aizen off guard and kill him quickly, right? Perfect end to Bleach.

Ummm. No. We are going by the BLEACH world rules, not real life ones, so i find it a little stupid that we are actually discussing that. How many battles actually happened counting on the "element of surprise"? As far as i know, characters even explain what they're gonna do before they actually attack. I know it could happen and i completely agree with what you've both said, but this is Bleach.

[h3h3h3]

Nothing immediately takes effect. If Yoruichi felt pressure, then Aizen's head would've came off. Aizen's face clearly shows he was not in his usual "smile while killing you" mood when Yoruichi and Soi Fon came. They could've killed Aizen, but they would've been killed by the menos.

No, Soi fon and Yoruichi aren't able to cut Aizen skin, Aizen knew Negacion was coming so he let them grab him, like Ichimaru let Matsumoto(yes he let...) and Tousen let the 69 guy.

[Guy]

No, i was merely posting something i found interesting. I'm surprised you read it, you tend to just scream

"Byakuya!Byakuya!Byakuya!"

Whenever you see his name in the topic :S

Meh.

Byakuya wins, toshiro phails. End of.

I wasn't screaming in the previoius quote. And you need to stop being biased against fanboys.

Again, you're assuming didn't = couldn't.

Firstly, if everyone did "what makes sense", then the manga would've been over by chapter 2. Rukia would've just stabbed Ichigo and reabsorbed her powers; manga over. Urahara could've just killed Byakuya and Renji when they came to Earth, seeing as they were limited to 20% power. Of course, if you want to write a manga that actually makes money, that's not the thing to do. There is no coming back from head injuries, unlike body cuts where they can fall down and have a flashback for 5 chapters before someone heals them.

The only person to get stabbed in the head in the manga died, and it was by a nearly dead, significantly weaker opponent. Without surprise, this type of thing is hard to accomplish, but when two people are just standing next to each other and one decides to chop the other in half (Grimmjaw against Luppi), it's not very difficult, so don't start saying surprise kills are impossible because it's obvious it can happen.

Marketing reasons, eh? Either that is the perfect save, or a very lame excuse. I'm not sure which is which. I leave that up to the readers of this place.

[Nowitzki]

No, Soi fon and Yoruichi aren't able to cut Aizen skin, Aizen knew Negacion was coming so he let them grab him, like Ichimaru let Matsumoto(yes he let...) and Tousen let the 69 guy.

In a fair fight, probably not. But when someone is clearly bound down and can't escape, anyone can be cut.

[Jay3205]

Marketing reasons, eh? Either that is the perfect save, or a very lame excuse. I'm not sure which is which. I leave that up to the readers of this place.It's pretty much fact the characters do not pick the best options for their goals. How else could you explain why Rukia just didn't take back her powers, why Zaraki just didn't airwalk to find Ichigo, why Ichigo just didn't airwalk to save Rukia, and why Ichigo just didn't kill Byakuya even despite multiple opportunities?

This is no different than Power Rangers. Why do they change into spandex suits and use martial arts to fight monsters when they could just as easily call giant robots to win far more easily? Answer: they could, but the plot would be non-existant if they made the sensible choice.

No, Soi fon and Yoruichi aren't able to cut Aizen skin, Aizen knew Negacion was coming so he let them grab him, like Ichimaru let Matsumoto(yes he let...) and Tousen let the 69 guy.It's fairly obvious Gin did not let Matsumoto grab him. He simply chose to not break out, as you can tell by the change in his expressions. If Matsumoto just chose to stab him, he would've been killed.

Also, what makes you say Yoruichi and Aizen can't cut Aizen? They stated that they could, and considering Aizen already revealed his uber power against Ichigo and Komamura, they knew what they were up against. Everybody who attacked Aizen was nearly killed. It doesn't make sense for him to wipe out everyone else, then all of a sudden get serious and not move when he's threatened by two people who he could wipe out just as easily... he would just wipe them out like he did to Renji, Ichigo, Komamura, and Hitsugaya.

[jonat3]

Actually, i'm not certain that Aizen can be cut as well. Of course, Soi Fong and Yoruichi thought they could cut him, but i'm not certain they were truly aware of his full strength.

Afterall, we are talking about a guy that only needed a glance to bring Grimmjow on his knees. For that to be possible, Aizen needs to be atleast 10 times stronger than Grimmjow at MINIMUM.

Aizen's reiatsu is simply on a different level. Since his reiatsu is far superior, logic would dictate his defense should be far superior as well.

[Jay3205]

The fact that he stops and changes demeanor instead of just curb stomping them like everyone else would suggest that there is something for him to be worried about.

[jonat3]

His demeanor was pretty calm if you ask me. Didn't look slightly worried at all.

Anyways, his facial expressions of Aizen are too mild to be used as reliable evidence. Us manga readers already have reliable evidence of what Aizen's reiatsu level might be. He's simply a monster. The only way Yoruichi and Soi Fong could possibly hurt him, is if they were monsters as well, capable of fighting one on one with Ulquiorra at the LEAST.

[Seff vi Britannia]

The 3 captains knew the negacion was coming,

Gin:
Ah, if only you had held on a little longer.

Also, when you consider he stopped bankai Ichigo.

(who is faster than Yourichi)

...

So yes, They couldnt be bothered basically.

[Undying]

Undying is actually giving Hitsugaya credit??? OMG, this ought to be headline news! :P

Ahem, anyways, if I remember correctly, Hitsugaya wasn't exactly owning Luppi. In fact, Luppi had much of the upperhand of the battle. And if Hitsugaya is allowed to life the limit in this battle, I don't see why Byakuya shouldn't be allowed to.
I was not giving Hitsugaya credit. Hitsugaya never "won" so it doesn't count. All he did was freeze Luppi for a couple of chapters. Now, had he defeated Luppi...

[suburbanhell]

Byakuya doesn't even break a sweat.

[Ichi-Zoro 3]

Obviously, Byakuya wins

[Guy]

Pointless thread; I think it should be closed.

[espada302]

_Guy_ is right. I,m getting pissed with this " I'm a fanboy, so I vote for Hits". From watching both of them in battle, I say tht Hits isn't even in Bya's league

[espada302]

Please close ths thread.

[h3h3h3]

Why? He has the strongest ice zanpaktou. He is the prodigy and is going to be the new Captain commander.

Strongest ice zanpaktou out of two :facepalm:, Every captain is/was a prodigy. :facepalm:, Captain commander? :facepalm:

Yea this should be closed Hitsugaya is shit.

[JaguarX]

Hitsugaya at the age of Byakuya >>>>>> Byakuya at his current age.

Given the same time learning their bankai, Hitsugaya is much stronger. Or to put it another way, Byakuya at Toshiro's age, would've failed miserably.

Currently, i think Byakuya is overrated, if he lost to Bankai Ichigo who learned his bankai in 4 days, i don't think he's all that great. Sure, he could beat Toshiro now, i won't deny it, but the way that Yoruichi spoke so lowly of him, and his surprise at Ukitake when he grabbed him on the bridge that time, kind of shows he likes to talk a big game, but just recently mastered his abilities. Still has yet to mess with the big dogs (Shunsui, Ukitake, Yoruichi, Urahara, Yama, Aizen, etc)

[diamondedge]

Few corrections.

Hitsugaya isn't at the age of Bykauya. Byakuya is older, but he is the top of the mid tier, but he has only been a captain for 50 years. He HAS mastered his bankai in that time, being noble he has extended potential, but for Hitsugaya's bankai was explicitly stated that is premature, while Histiuagya is some sort of heavenly guardian and a genius.

Shinigami academy is 2000 years old, do your math how many difference in years is there at max between Byakuya and Hitsugaya. While you're at it, check how much Byakuya has shown and how much Hitsugaya has.

Comparisons vs Ichigo mean sh!t. Zaraki was brought down by sheer force of shikai Ichigo, but is not taking on 5th Espada and even has the upper hand while Ichigo in his vaizard bankai mode barely brought down 6th. So yeah, I'm not buying that because Byakuya clearly isn't at his SS level in HM.

If anything, you're putting Hitsugaya on Renji's level, who Byakuya defeated with #33 kidou. GG.

Ukitake grabbing Byakuya's hand means what? Ukitake was Byakuya's senior, and is obviously stronger than him, since he has been shinigami for much longer than Byakuya and Hitsugaya combined. However, Ukitake is not 2,3X Byakuya's level. Are you putting Histugaya in the same league as Ukitake,saying Hitsu >>>> Byakuya?

And FYI, Yourichi herself admitted she can NOT defeat Byakuya. And her and byakuya go way back. She was his mentor, and he respects her.

Recently mastering your abilities >>>> having premature bankai.

I know the popularity polls results got the best of you. *pats*

Now be so kind and stop posting nonsense?

And yes, Byakuya is all that great.

[Zanga]

Hitsugaya isn't at the age of Bykauya. Byakuya is older, but he is the top of the mid tier, but he has only been a captain for 50 years. He HAS mastered his bankai in that time, being noble he has extended potential, but for Hitsugaya's bankai was explicitly stated that is premature, while Histiuagya is some sort of heavenly guardian and a genius.


I think you misunderstood him. He meant that Hitsgaya, when Byakuya's age, would be stronger than current Byakuya.


Hitsugaya at the age of Byakuya >>>>>> Byakuya at his current age.
Given the same time learning their bankai, Hitsugaya is much stronger. Or to put it another way, Byakuya at Toshiro's age, would've failed miserably.
Currently, i think Byakuya is overrated, if he lost to Bankai Ichigo who learned his bankai in 4 days, i don't think he's all that great. Sure, he could beat Toshiro now, i won't deny it, but the way that Yoruichi spoke so lowly of him, and his surprise at Ukitake when he grabbed him on the bridge that time, kind of shows he likes to talk a big game, but just recently mastered his abilities. Still has yet to mess with the big dogs (Shunsui, Ukitake, Yoruichi, Urahara, Yama, Aizen, etc)


No. Hitsugaya is a Prodigy, he doesn't have the potential to become 100 times stronger than Yama.

Prodigy = Learns faster than normal people = reaches limit much sooner. Why? Because he is a shinigami. I don't see Hitsgaya becoming that much stronger than he already is.

And also, saying Byakuya is weak, or not as strong as everyone think he is because he lost to Ichigo whom only had Bankai for 2 days and half is stupid. Why? Because it's Ichigo. Plotkai mastah

We've seen Byakuya destroy a normal person who just attained bankai. Remember Renji? When a NORMAL person who just attained bankai goes up against Byakuya, that's what happens. Why? Because he has a NORMAL bankai, unlike Ichigo who apparently is probably the first person who was smart enough to condense their bankai to a small size to fight at supersonic speed.

But besides this, Byakuya knows the weakness of ppl who just attained bankai, and any other person who stood up to him in Ichigo's situation would have been flattened and destroyed.

[diamondedge]

Nope, I got what he said all right.

I was merely stating that there are no such "ifs" and therefore it's pointless to bring that up. :)

[Guy]

Hitsugaya at the age of Byakuya >>>>>> Byakuya at his current age.
Given the same time learning their bankai, Hitsugaya is much stronger. Or to put it another way, Byakuya at Toshiro's age, would've failed miserably.

Your own assumptions. We know nothing about what Byakuya was like during his age. Maybe he was a prodigy too.

Currently, i think Byakuya is overrated, if he lost to Bankai Ichigo who learned his bankai in 4 days, i don't think he's all that great. Sure, he could beat Toshiro now, i won't deny it, but the way that Yoruichi spoke so lowly of him, and his surprise at Ukitake when he grabbed him on the bridge that time, kind of shows he likes to talk a big game, but just recently mastered his abilities. Still has yet to mess with the big dogs (Shunsui, Ukitake, Yoruichi, Urahara, Yama, Aizen, etc)

And if Zaraki lost to a shikai Ichigo, how the hell can he be doing so well in the manga? The latest manga chapters proved that all Ichigo vs. Whoever battles prove sh*t about Ichigo's opponent's strength.

Ukitake is Byakuya's SENIOR, and Yama said so himself that Ukitake and Shunsui are the STRONGEST captains. In addition, what does Byakuya being weaker to shunsui and ukitake have anything to do with this battle? Hitsugaya is FAR below their leagues, so unless you're saying Hitsugaya is around the big dogs, your point is totally invalid.

[Kuroudo]

Well if its like those epilogues from the endings of some stories (in which the main character died but a descendent or reincarnation achieved the same skills as the main character but faster and in less time) I still dont think Hitsugaya will be ever as stronger or stronger than Byakuya.

but if you think if this way Toshiro does become stronger than byakuya when he reaches his age but Byakuya ages too so wouldnt that mean he was twice as strong as he once then? also i agree with Guy why does Shunsui and Ukitake have to be in this battle?

This battle is all one sided anyways because there is no "ifs" Hitsugaya will be as old as he is in Bleach until it ends unless there is some epilogue or sequel or a timeskip like Naruto. Byakuya >>> Hitsugaya now. Future Hitsugaya >>>>> Byakuya? I dont care because that has nothing to do with this fight. Its the same as "Yea, Byakuya can beat Hitsugaya but if Hitsugaya had the powers of goku he would win!" Its just speculation that Hitsugaya could be stronger than Byakuya when he reaches Byakuya's current age but remember its just an "if" so it has nothing to do with this fight.

So since its pretty clear that we are talking about Current Byakuya and Toshirou its very obvious who would win.

[Bankai_Zangetsu]

well i prolly shouldnt post this .. before i say anything i say that im a much bigger fan of byakuya than hitsu ... but i still voted byakuya as barely winning. i chose this because he could freeze the petals .. and well thats all i can say im sure byakuya would win .. dunno why im even talkin lol

[Kuroudo]

Before it even gets to Senbonzakura he would win.

Point #1. True he would probably freeze the pedtals
Point #2. REmember when Aizen wtfpwned Hitsugaya he did a shunpo/cut combo.
Point #3. Byakuya=Shunpo Expert Captain of the Gotei 13,
Point #4. Shunpo Behind Technique (forget name) Slash=dead.

[davidn15]

can this even be called a fight...

[Jay3205]

Hitsugaya is not so weak that Byakuya would 1-shot him with such a simple shunpo-stab combo. Even Renji doesn't fall for that. If it was strictly a sword fight, I'd bet Hitsugaya would put up a decent defense though he'd lose in the end. With all other abilities included, it's a very one-sided match for Byakuya.

[SenpaiRetsu]

Hitsugaya is not so weak that Byakuya would 1-shot him with such a simple shunpo-stab combo. Even Renji doesn't fall for that. If it was strictly a sword fight, I'd bet Hitsugaya would put up a decent defense though he'd lose in the end. With all other abilities included, it's a very one-sided match for Byakuya.


not really, the only reason that renji could counter it is because he has been studying for years. it's likely that hisugaya has never seen it. and ichigo countered it because he's Ichigo, it doesn't count.

[Seff vi Britannia]

not really, the only reason that renji could counter it is because he has been studying for years.

Chapter and page, please. I don't remember this bit.

[Icestorm]

@Jio: Its been stated numerous times that Renji always tried to see the technique, in the episode that Ichigo first encounters Byakuya he says that he has seen it countless times but is still just able to catch it.

If we use logic, Renji is Byakuya's Vice Captain.. meaning that he would have seen it before quite alot, so by studying I dont think he meant directly but in being with him for so long he would have seen it alot before.. so indirectly he has studied it.

[Undying]

@Seff:

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-140-page-16.html

As you can see, Renji explicitly states that he saw it countless times. That's why he is able to know what will happen.

Someone that saw it for the first time (except Ichigo with powaaa-up) will miss it, and get hit - at least a little (unless they are already moving).

Although yeah, if the opponent can follow the technique with their gaze, they can probably stop it (IF their reaction time is short enough).

[Seff vi Britannia]

Ah, cheers guys. I thought he was implying that Renji had like, specifically studied to counter that technique. (for years.)

>_>

[Bankai_Zangetsu]

Point #2. REmember when Aizen wtfpwned Hitsugaya he did a shunpo/cut combo.

ok .. thats totally different dude lol first of all he had an illusion set up and second aizen is at least twice as strong as byakuya.. i agree with most everything else you said .. although im not sure if flash blossom would take out hitsu guaranteed .. he is a captain after all.

[Dark-Aries]

Byakuya wins. Senkei zenbozakura would destory hyoryimaru (sp?)into tiny pieces. It's ice against an ice shaver...which one gets torn into little chunks?

[h3h3h3]

ok .. thats totally different dude lol first of all he had an illusion set up and second aizen is at least twice as strong as byakuya.. i agree with most everything else you said .. although im not sure if flash blossom would take out hitsu guaranteed .. he is a captain after all.
No he didn't hypnotize Hitsugaya that's filler.

All he did was shunposlash.

[JaguarX]

First, i wasn't saying "if", i was saying it's true that Toshiro is the prodigy kid Captain. Sorry Byakuya fanboys, but Byakuya wasn't a captain at Toshiro's age, or else it would've been mentioned.

I"m not saying that Toshiro wouldn't have gotten beat here, it's quite obvious that he would lose, however, when you level the field of years of mastering bankais, Toshiro would win. He's already showed more than one skill with his bankai, where other captains have not.

I only mentioned the Ukitake scene with Yoruichi to show that they in a sense did not give Byakuya all the credit that most people tend to give him.

And i love how just because Ichigo wins against someone, it's automatically plotkai, but the second he loses to someone, it's because that someone is sooo much stronger? That doesn't even make sense. Ichigo's battles mean as much as other battles, otherwise, the idea of bringing these "anime battles" is pointless since the entire anime is based on plotkai, so people's levels could fluctuate at any given time. If there's no reference point, then these battles don't even make sense. Zaraki tied to Ichigo because Ichigo was lent power from his zanpaktou, which overpowered Zaraki's maximum reiastu which does not rely at all on his zanpaktou. Zaraki is more melee-oriented anyways, as his entire squad frowns upon kidou-use, so he probably beats opponents who rely more on kidou and don't have much mastery of swords fighting. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, and i'm sure Zaraki's experience in battles gives him the edge usually.

Byakuya shows alot of mastery of his bankai, but his shunpo isn't faster than Yoruichi's (or flashstep w/e), so he wouldn't be able to 1-shot Toshiro. Secondly, Toshiro's bankai would have no problem protecting him from the petals and freezing them. It would not necessarily be an easy victory for Byakuya.

The way i see it, Byakuya enjoys to underestimate his opponents due to his pride, and ultimately that should lead to his downfall (imagine if Renji's sword didn't break when he went on that last attack after taking all that beating? or when Ichigo twice could have slit his throat? ) So i would picture him underestimating Toshiro as he would anyone who is not his superior, and Toshiro would give him a hard time because the lil guy's resilient and he's pretty fast with his bankai.

[Guy]

First, i wasn't saying "if", i was saying it's true that Toshiro is the prodigy kid Captain. Sorry Byakuya fanboys, but Byakuya wasn't a captain at Toshiro's age, or else it would've been mentioned.

So if it's not mentioned, it must not be true, right? I guess Yama, Shunsui, and Ukitake are all not prodigies. According to your logic, Hitsu can beat them at his age.

I"m not saying that Toshiro wouldn't have gotten beat here, it's quite obvious that he would lose, however, when you level the field of years of mastering bankais, Toshiro would win. He's already showed more than one skill with his bankai, where other captains have not.

Wait, so Byakuya doesn't have more than one skill with his bankai? Goukei, senkei, and hakuteiken are not part of his bankai? And Toushirou is very close to his limits, if you read the databooks.

I only mentioned the Ukitake scene with Yoruichi to show that they in a sense did not give Byakuya all the credit that most people tend to give him.

I know Byakuya's not the fastest, but what Byakuya has shown us is FAR more successful than what Hitsu has shown us. Byakuya was fast enough to destroy Ichigo's zanpakutou without Ichigo even realizing it. Hitsugaya's shikai couldnt' even hit Gin. It's obvious that even if Byakuya is not as fast as Yoruichi or bankai Ichigo, his speed is way faster than Hitsugaya's.

And i love how just because Ichigo wins against someone, it's automatically plotkai, but the second he loses to someone, it's because that someone is sooo much stronger? That doesn't even make sense. Ichigo's battles mean as much as other battles, otherwise, the idea of bringing these "anime battles" is pointless since the entire anime is based on plotkai, so people's levels could fluctuate at any given time. If there's no reference point, then these battles don't even make sense.

No battles with Ichigo in it make any sense. Otherwise, I dare you to explain the "sense" in the current manga chapter.

Byakuya shows alot of mastery of his bankai, but his shunpo isn't faster than Yoruichi's (or flashstep w/e), so he wouldn't be able to 1-shot Toshiro.

What, where has Toushiro ever shown us he could block Byakuya's attack?

Secondly, Toshiro's bankai would have no problem protecting him from the petals and freezing them. It would not necessarily be an easy victory for Byakuya.

Lol! Byakuya's kidou effortlessly raped Renji's bankai. Byakuya's kidou skills are at least stronger than a weak bankai (and Hitsugaya does have a weak bankai). In the manga, the 7th espada had to activate his hierro to survive Senbonzakura Kageyoshi

The way i see it, Byakuya enjoys to underestimate his opponents due to his pride, and ultimately that should lead to his downfall (imagine if Renji's sword didn't break when he went on that last attack after taking all that beating? or when Ichigo twice could have slit his throat? ) So i would picture him underestimating Toshiro as he would anyone who is not his superior, and Toshiro would give him a hard time because the lil guy's resilient and he's pretty fast with his bankai.

The lil guy is resilient all right, but he has gotten owned by virtually every opponent. Hitsugaya struggled against a GILLIAN arrancar.

In the manga Byakuya beated an ESPADA with OUT an arm and a leg

Hitsugaya stands no chance. Quit overrating him.

[Bankai_Zangetsu]

let me remind you of the freakin whoopin luppi gave hitsugaya .. what you gonna say hitsu won ? he only won because he was distracted by half a dozen shinigami. byakuyas bankai would completely shatter those flimsy wings just as 8 luppi tentacles did with ease. in addition hitsu hasnt shown any kind of significant speed with his bankai.
other than that i agree that it wouldnt be a total blowout fight between the two .. just theres no way hitsu could have a chance

[Dark-Aries]

let me remind you of the freakin whoopin luppi gave hitsugaya .. what you gonna say hitsu won ? he only won because he was distracted by half a dozen shinigami. byakuyas bankai would completely shatter those flimsy wings just as 8 luppi tentacles did with ease. in addition hitsu hasnt shown any kind of significant speed with his bankai.
other than that i agree that it wouldnt be a total blowout fight between the two .. just theres no way hitsu could have a chance


Not just luppi...Hitsu has gotten beat by alot of people...(okay maybe 3 that we know of..maybe)

Byakuya is not on par of Yoriuchi's shunpo but he's still fast enough to 'play tag' with here. Alot of people can't. Yoruichi is the goddess of flash. Only matched by byakuya (Tell me if I'm wrong on this)

Plus Hitsu only has....One special movie he can do with his bankai. The ice proson or whatever it was. Byakuya has 3. Just look at the facts fanboys...Hitsu loses.

[Kuroudo]

Shunpo speed goes like this

Yourichi >>> Byakuya >>> Soifon

maybe Yamamoto and Aizen are faster but that dosent really matter in this

[Bankai_Zangetsu]

how is soifon faster than yoruichi or how is byakuya slower than yoruichi ur got ur >>> all wrong

[Guy]

Shunpo speed goes like this

Soifon >>> Byakuya >> Yourichi.

maybe Yamamoto and Aizen are faster but that dosent really matter in this.

Huh? If Soi Fong is faster than Yoruichi, then Yoruichi should've died.

[Kuroudo]

FIXED


Yourichi >>> Byakuya >>> Soifon

[diamondedge]

First, i wasn't saying "if", i was saying it's true that Toshiro is the prodigy kid Captain. Sorry Byakuya fanboys, but Byakuya wasn't a captain at Toshiro's age, or else it would've been mentioned.
What is that supposed to mean?
It's like saying Byakuya at Ukitake's age will be stronger than him. It means nothing. Renji has a bankai too, Ikakku has it too. Therefore, they are captain material. They are merely around Arrancar level, even with bankai.

I"m not saying that Toshiro wouldn't have gotten beat here, it's quite obvious that he would lose, however, when you level the field of years of mastering bankais, Toshiro would win. He's already showed more than one skill with his bankai, where other captains have not.
Examine what you're saying. Byakuya has shown THE most skill with his bankai out of ANYONE we've seen in Bleach. And as I've mentioned, the difference in years between them isn't all that great, and Hitsugaya still has premature bankai whereas Byakuya has mastered it. It matters very little if he was a prodigy, if he is now behind most of other captains in bankai game.

Besides, Byakyua is a nobleman, nobles have extended potential. Even IF Toshiro, you have no proof if Toshiro was better at bankai than Byakuya when he gained captaincy.

I only mentioned the Ukitake scene with Yoruichi to show that they in a sense did not give Byakuya all the credit that most people tend to give him.
They didn't battle. All Ukitake did was grab his hand to stop him. Byakyua didn't resist, out of respect, just like he didn't respond to Yourichi's insults - because he respects her. She got away from him, but later on, she admitted she couldn't beat him. So I still don't see you point?

And i love how just because Ichigo wins against someone, it's automatically plotkai, but the second he loses to someone, it's because that someone is sooo much stronger?
Are you suggesting that his battles aren't plotkai?

"Sorry, I can't take any more damage"- > You call THAT justified victory?

Read the manga, it's perfect proof that fights with Ichigo mean nothing for the Gotei. All of the mid tiers who fight and have fought now actually outclass vaizard bankai Ichigo, and they couldn't have gotten 3,4 times stronger in just few months. Do the maths.

That doesn't even make sense. Ichigo's battles mean as much as other battles, otherwise, the idea of bringing these "anime battles" is pointless since the entire anime is based on plotkai, so people's levels could fluctuate at any given time.
Ichigo is the main character, of course it matters. it's same as Neji vs Naruto in Naruto; even though nNaruto beat Neji in chuunin exams, Neji was still far superior.

Yes, winning or loosing to a main character especially when plot has to progress doesn't mean anything. And as I've said if you don't believe me, read the manga.

If there's no reference point, then these battles don't even make sense. Zaraki tied to Ichigo because Ichigo was lent power from his zanpaktou, which overpowered Zaraki's maximum reiastu which does not rely at all on his zanpaktou.
The technique is taught by Zangetsu. He had shown Ichigo that technique

Zaraki didn't loose because he was overpowered, or because Ichigo was stronger at that time, but it was author's way of showing the difference using your zanpaktou as a tool (Zaraki) or you partner (Ichigo).
Do you actually put shikai Ichigo and Zaraki in the same league just because Kenpachi lost to shikai Ichigo? Don't be an idiot.
FYI, Zaraki is wiping the floor with 5th espada, while vaizard bankai Ichigo won Grimmjow with plotkai.

Byakuya shows alot of mastery of his bankai, but his shunpo isn't faster than Yoruichi's (or flashstep w/e), so he wouldn't be able to 1-shot Toshiro. Secondly, Toshiro's bankai would have no problem protecting him from the petals and freezing them. It would not necessarily be an easy victory for Byakuya.
Heh. Hyourinmaru is nowhere NEAR as fast as Senbonzakura. Do you have any proof that Toshiro can swing his bankai Around so fast it is able to track, capture and freeze ALL of Senbonzakura?

The way i see it, Byakuya enjoys to underestimate his opponents due to his pride, and ultimately that should lead to his downfall (imagine if Renji's sword didn't break when he went on that last attack after taking all that beating? or when Ichigo twice could have slit his throat? ) So i would picture him underestimating Toshiro as he would anyone who is not his superior, and Toshiro would give him a hard time because the lil guy's resilient and he's pretty fast with his bankai.
Ye, that is a big minus in his character, but even with the underestimation, we have both agreed that Byakuya has shown to master his abilities. If he does what he does with his pride intervened, imagine what he would do if he fought at his fullest from the very start.

@Zanga & Kuchiki San: Which means what? She Yourichi outsped him, and later on admitted she couldn't beat him in a battle. The words came from her own mouth, she trained with him, she knows him, yet she stated that. Wouldn't that make Byakuya >> Yourichi?

[Jay3205]

I think it's overestimating Byakuya to say he can 1-shot Hitsugaya with such a simple shunpo technique. It would be an overestimation to say that any mid-tier captain can 1-shot another captain without using bankai. Although he's fast, he's not depicted as overwhelmingly fast in comparison to other captains... he only appears that way to a low-level Ichigo during the first encounter. The only other time someone is completely outclassed in speed is from bankai Ichigo, Aizen, and Yamamoto, so saying Byakuya is THAT much faster doesn't have much solid evidence.

He certainly isn't so fast that another shunpo-using captain will not be able to react to his movements. Shikai Ichigo can even react to shunpo, and this was before he trained his swordfighting/shunpo/bankai skills.

Also, Hitsugaya's bankai is powerful enough to freeze a very large area in a small amount of time, as he demonstrated by freezing Luppi's (rather large) tentacles. Against an omnidirectional attack though, it doesn't matter.

[Dark-Aries]

W
@Zanga & Kuchiki San: Which means what? She Yourichi outsped him, and later on admitted she couldn't beat him in a battle. The words came from her own mouth, she trained with him, she knows him, yet she stated that. Wouldn't that make Byakuya >> Yourichi?

I think it means that she would be able to out run him and give a few hits...but Byakuya would surely defeat her in the end.

[Zanga]

@Diamond

I assumed it was a argument about speed.

My mistake.

[SenpaiRetsu]

@Diamond
I assumed it was a argument about speed.
My mistake.


@Zanga it had to be an argument about speed. That's how i understood it, or it'd be easily Byakuya over both of them at this point. if Soifon pulls out bankai maybe she'd be stronger than Byakuya, though we'd have to see it.

[Sin]

I don't know I think Hitsugaya will learn to master his bankai and use it more efficiently by gaining more experience. Besides as long as there is water no matter where it is he can use it to amplify his attack so there is something to be said by that. But Byakuya is a Genius strategist and has more experience then Hitsugaya so its an unfair fight.

Oh and I don't think Yoroichi said that she can't beat Byakuya, after all she's still teaching him new fighting styles so it would be really unfair to say that she couldn't beat him considering she doesn't fight conventional, we haven't seen her release call out her sword. Despite that she totally ****** up Yami an espada using nothing but hand to hand combat with out activating that special Kidou method.

[Zanga]

No she basically said to Ichigo:


"NONE of us there on the bridge could have defeated Byakuya on that bridge"

And why do people keep thinking she has a zankaptou. Cans omeone show me a scan of where she is holding one?

[Bankai_Zangetsu]

FYI, Zaraki is wiping the floor with 5th espada, while vaizard bankai Ichigo won Grimmjow with plotkai.
well you definitely cant say that was a plotkai win im sure he was still stronger than grimmjow by a decent margin. the only reason he had any trouble was because inoue was frozen with fear and had to be saved from 5 death spikes which ichigo had to take directly.

[Zanga]

Pretty sure I said the exact same thing in another thread.

[Dark-Aries]

No she basically said to Ichigo:
"NONE of us there on the bridge could have defeated Byakuya on that bridge"
And why do people keep thinking she has a zankaptou. Cans omeone show me a scan of where she is holding one?


This isn't a manga scan but it's in the anime...I haven't read the anime at the SS arc yet...I've ought to though...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Yorzan2.JPG

Edit: Found a manga scan...

http://i1.tinypic.com/rvlt9e.jpg

Found it while googling "Does yoruichi have a zanpaktou" and it came up.

[Kuroudo]

Its debatable wether that is or is not her Zanpaktou.

[Undying]

It's debatable whether it's anything more than an Asauchi.

Oh and Yoruichi doesn't have a zanpakto now, therefore she never had one in the first place (that's not an Asauchi, that is).

[diamondedge]

*taking heavy damage*
->
Sorry, I can't take anymore damage
->
*wins*

Indeed. It was NOT plotkai.

[Icestorm]

Yes Yoruichi is indeed holding an Asauchi.. people who believe otherwise are completely retarded.

[The sunlight]

I voted Toshiro (barely) and I like byakuya better. Why did I vote toshiro ? simple. He has the Zanpaktou advantage. Toshiro could easily freeze senbonzakura if he wanted to, or submerge al the sword particles in a huge body of water (and then maybe freeze it) . He could use his bankai to create a thick wall of ice to prevent senbonzakura from slicing him up. I do believe that byakuya has an advantage in speed and experience, but i still think toshiro Could win if he uses his head and tries hard enough. But, it would be a close call.

[rxfreedom]

Byakuya will win hands down! But Toshiro put some work in!

[The sunlight]

So if it's not mentioned, it must not be true, right? I guess Yama, Shunsui, and Ukitake are all not prodigies. According to your logic, Hitsu can beat them at his age.
Wait, so Byakuya doesn't have more than one skill with his bankai? Goukei, senkei, and hakuteiken are not part of his bankai? And Toushirou is very close to his limits, if you read the databooks.
I know Byakuya's not the fastest, but what Byakuya has shown us is FAR more successful than what Hitsu has shown us. Byakuya was fast enough to destroy Ichigo's zanpakutou without Ichigo even realizing it. Hitsugaya's shikai couldnt' even hit Gin. It's obvious that even if Byakuya is not as fast as Yoruichi or bankai Ichigo, his speed is way faster than Hitsugaya's.
No battles with Ichigo in it make any sense. Otherwise, I dare you to explain the "sense" in the current manga chapter.
What, where has Toushiro ever shown us he could block Byakuya's attack?
Lol! Byakuya's kidou effortlessly raped Renji's bankai. Byakuya's kidou skills are at least stronger than a weak bankai (and Hitsugaya does have a weak bankai). In the manga, the 7th espada had to activate his hierro to survive Senbonzakura Kageyoshi
The lil guy is resilient all right, but he has gotten owned by virtually every opponent. Hitsugaya struggled against a GILLIAN arrancar.
In the manga Byakuya beated an ESPADA with OUT an arm and a leg
Hitsugaya stands no chance. Quit overrating him.


Toshiro has multiple abillities with his bankai aswell. ryūsenka, wich freezes anything toshiro stabs instantly to the core, sennen hyōrō, the ice prison and he can also fold his wings into a thick ice shield. Activating his bankai also automatically freezes the entire area in a radius of atleast 50 meters. And what the hell ? toshiro close to his limits ? he hasn't reached his potential yet. At full potential, it is said that toshiro will have *SPoiler* 30 ice flowers behind his back instead of 3 (wich is currently the case). And Histuyaga did hit Gin. Infact, he froze his left arm before gin even realised it. He was so surprised he even opened his eyes (and when gin opens his eyes, its pretty serious) Besides, "even" Gin is not an argument here. For all we know, Gin could be 10 times more powerful then byakuya himself (is their any proof that he isn't ? ). And yes byakuya uses amzaing speed against Ichigo the first time they met, but ichigo was so weak at the time that he probably wouldn't even made it in the gotei 13 if he tried since he didn't even have shikai. Toshiro could probably have done the same thing at the time. True, toshiro has never shown that he could block byakuya's attack. Has byakuya ever proven that he could pierce toshiro's defence ? or that HE could block tohisro's freezing abillties/attack ? no.
Again comparing renji and Toshiro. Renji had JUST obtained bankai and did certainly NOT posses the same amount of spirit pressure as toshiro. While toshiro's bankai isn't that old, it isn't THAT young either. He has it for atleast a year (I doubt that its less then a year ago that toshiro became captain) Toshiro would've easily 'raped' renji's bankai aswell at the time if he wanted to. Toshiro "Owned by every oppenent ? Lets see. Against, Gin, undecided, but it could go any way and, as i said before, we don't know how powerful gin is so that is not ownage at all. Against Aizen, pretty much everyone would get owned. Ichigo got owned just as bad as Toshiro and byakuya would get pwnd by Aizen aswell. So that's not "real" defeat for toshiro (since everyone would get killed by aizen back then). Against the gillian arrancar, Toshiro had a freakin limit. He was five times weaker. After his limit got released, he pwnd the arrancer easily and after that he gave espada nr. 6 (Luppi) a pretty hard time. I fail to see were toshiro gets "owned" by virtually every opponent ? we don't even see him fight that much. So you have no reason at all to call him weaker then byakuya.

[Undying]

Toshiro has multiple abillities with his bankai aswell. ryūsenka, wich freezes anything toshiro stabs instantly to the core,
He needs to stab first. Byakuya is faster, plus he has a ranged attack which is superior to Toushiro's
sennen hyōrō, the ice prison
Which requires to long to load to be of any effectiveness against Byakuya's immediate "I shred you to pieces" attack.
and he can also fold his wings into a thick ice shield.
Which is only so much of use.
Activating his bankai also automatically freezes the entire area in a radius of atleast 50 meters.
Closer to 10, and anyone could easily dodge that.
And what the hell ? toshiro close to his limits ? he hasn't reached his potential yet.
Check the databooks, sunny. Hitsu-boy is close to his full potential.
At full potential, it is said that toshiro will have *SPoiler* 30 ice flowers behind his back instead of 3 (wich is currently the case).
That's bullshit.
And Histuyaga did hit Gin. Infact, he froze his left arm before gin even realised it. He was so surprised he even opened his eyes
And then Gin proceeded to attack his real target, Hinamori.
(and when gin opens his eyes, its pretty serious)
More bullshit.
Besides, "even" Gin is not an argument here. For all we know, Gin could be 10 times more powerful then byakuya himself (is their any proof that he isn't ? ).
Your point? Hitsugaya failed against Gin, who wasn't even targeting him.
And yes byakuya uses amzaing speed against Ichigo the first time they met, but ichigo was so weak at the time that he probably wouldn't even made it in the gotei 13 if he tried since he didn't even have shikai.
Are you smoking something? Ichigo's sheer power would have promised him a place in the Gotei 13 - people would fight on the right to have him there because he's so strong.

Byakuya is simply so fast.
Toshiro could probably have done the same thing at the time.
And no, Toushiro-kun couldn't have done the same, because Tousehiro-kun is phail. And doesn't specialize in shunpo.
True, toshiro has never shown that he could block byakuya's attack. Has byakuya ever proven that he could pierce toshiro's defence ? or that HE could block tohisro's freezing abillties/attack ? no.
Look again, sunny. For a Byakuya fan, you know close to nothing about him. Senbonzakura's offensive power is massive, and the consecutive destructive force far greater than Hitsugaya.

As for Hitsugaya being able to defend against Byakuya, I lol'd. Hitsugaya couldn't defend against Shawlongs (!) attacks. True, Hits was at 20% at the time, but can you really see Byakuya at 20% getting owned like that?

Again comparing renji and Toshiro. Renji had JUST obtained bankai and did certainly NOT posses the same amount of spirit pressure as toshiro.
What kind of bullshit is that? Review their fight with the Arrancar. They faired almost identically against their enemies, signifying their powers are nearly equal. While toshiro's bankai isn't that old, it isn't THAT young either. He has it for atleast a year (I doubt that its less then a year ago that toshiro became captain)
So what? Renji is doing better with a three-months-old bankai than Hitsugaya did with his 'more than one year'.
Toshiro would've easily 'raped' renji's bankai aswell at the time if he wanted to.
Bullshit, that was discussed before. Renji's ranged abilities + energy attacks > Hitsu's "stab and freeze" methods.
Toshiro "Owned by every oppenent ? Lets see. Against, Gin, undecided, but it could go any way and, as i said before, we don't know how powerful gin is so that is not ownage at all. Against Aizen, pretty much everyone would get owned. Ichigo got owned just as bad as Toshiro and byakuya would get pwnd by Aizen aswell. So that's not "real" defeat for toshiro (since everyone would get killed by aizen back then). Against the gillian arrancar, Toshiro had a freakin limit. He was five times weaker. After his limit got released, he pwnd the arrancer easily and after that he gave espada nr. 6 (Luppi) a pretty hard time. I fail to see were toshiro gets "owned" by virtually every opponent ?
You need glasses.

Against Gin; Gin wasn't even fighting him and he still almost got his eye punctured out.

Against Aizen; owned harder than anyone - unlike Ichigo, Hitsugaya was close to death (his bankai vanished, as opposed to Ichigo).

Against Shawlong; owned hard, then when the limit released, nearly dying from wounds sustained earlier (low stamina indicator).

Against Yammy; Yammy was clearly the superior to the two, effortlessly brushing away Hitsugaya's shikai and wasn't even trying, he could most likely take on Hitsugaya's bankai without releasing, and even if he had to release, he's still stronger than Hitsugaya (Byakuya effortlessly took out Espada 7)

Against Luppi; owned hard (Luppi would have killed him if he used his full power).

Or in simpler words, Hitsugaya is a weakling.
we don't even see him fight that much. So you have no reason at all to call him weaker then byakuya.
We have every reason, it's just that fans of Hitsugaya fail to see it.

[Seff vi Britannia]

I wouldn't say Byakuya "effortlessly" took out Leroux.

[Undying]

I wouldn't say Byakuya "effortlessly" took out Leroux.
Then what do you call it when someone kills someone with 2 attacks?

[Seff vi Britannia]

While loosing the use of two limbs and resorting to using a technique he didn't want to use in the process?

Let me check my thesaurus.

[Undying]

While loosing the use of two limbs and resorting to using a technique he didn't want to use in the process?

Let me check my thesaurus.
He hurt himself.

You know, like what Zaraki does to limit himself? Because he's too uber for others?

And as for "a technique he didn't want to use"... I lol'd.

[The sunlight]

He needs to stab first. Byakuya is faster, plus he has a ranged attack which is superior to Toushiro's

Which requires to long to load to be of any effectiveness against Byakuya's immediate "I shred you to pieces" attack.

Which is only so much of use.

Closer to 10, and anyone could easily dodge that.

Check the databooks, sunny. Hitsu-boy is close to his full potential.

That's bullshit.

We'll see.

And then Gin proceeded to attack his real target, Hinamori.

More bullshit.

WTf ? gin is always smiling even while battling and keepin his eyes almost closed, i'm telling you, he only openes his eyes when something serious happens. He got his arm frozen and was freakin surprised, that's why he opend his eyes. If he was still playing, he wouldn't have bothered.

Your point? Hitsugaya failed against Gin, who wasn't even targeting him.

My point, Histugaya didn't fail because the battle was interrupted and second we don't know how powerful gin is, who might be able to easily overpower byakuya for all we know (we haven't really seen what he can do) so toshiro didn't do so bad against him.

Are you smoking something? Ichigo's sheer power would have promised him a place in the Gotei 13 - people would fight on the right to have him there because he's so strong.

Wtf ? Renji was pwning Ichigo with a freakin power limit. Ichigo at the time was simply weak.

Byakuya is simply so fast.

And no, Toushiro-kun couldn't have done the same, because Tousehiro-kun is phail. And doesn't specialize in shunpo.

That doesn't mean he couldn't have flashed ichigo. He uses shunpo all the time.

Look again, sunny. For a Byakuya fan, you know close to nothing about him. Senbonzakura's offensive power is massive, and the consecutive destructive force far greater than Hitsugaya.

I know this. I'm just saiying i don't think byakuya could penetrate toshiro's ice shield if he could barely press trough kariya's wind barrier (i know its filler but it happend)

As for Hitsugaya being able to defend against Byakuya, I lol'd. Hitsugaya couldn't defend against Shawlongs (!) attacks. True, Hits was at 20% at the time, but can you really see Byakuya at 20% getting owned like that?

Who knows? i've never seen byakuya fight at 20 %. Have you ? i doubt it.


What kind of bullshit is that? Review their fight with the Arrancar. They faired almost identically against their enemies, signifying their powers are nearly equal.
So what? Renji is doing better with a three-months-old bankai than Hitsugaya did with his 'more than one year'.

Doing better ? if i recall it, renji's bankai just got smashed by espada nr. 8.

Bullshit, that was discussed before. Renji's ranged abilities + energy attacks > Hitsu's "stab and freeze" methods.

Says who ? i say renji is way below toshiro.

You need glasses.

Against Gin; Gin wasn't even fighting him and he still almost got his eye punctured out.

I have glasses. Wasn't even fighting him ? sure he wasnt putting much effort into it, but he was just about to get forced to power up or die (since hitsuyuga had him cornered and forced him to trigger his shikai). I think its a coward move of gin to attack hinamori, to escape fighting toshiro. If he was that superior, he could have smacked toshiro unconscious and then kill hinamori on his ease. BEsides, toshiro hadn't used bankai yet.

Against Aizen; owned harder than anyone - unlike Ichigo, Hitsugaya was close to death (his bankai vanished, as opposed to Ichigo).

Owned harder ? ichigo was almost sliced in half and his bankai got stopped with one finger and renji's zanpaktou got destroyed. Aizen used hypnosis to beat toshiro probably because he didn't dare to block that attackt himself, while with ichigo, he simply used his finger Besides, Ichigo's bankai isn't of the type to "break" when he gets injured. His bankai always stays on after he gets beat.

Against Shawlong; owned hard, then when the limit released, nearly dying from wounds sustained earlier (low stamina indicator).

Why ? he was just cut up bad. BYakuya after a few slices from ichigo was also "almost dying" at the time toshiro's was slightly weaker then SHawlong, he gets cut up, but releasing his limit doesn't mean his wounds will heal does it ?

Against Yammy; Yammy was clearly the superior to the two, effortlessly brushing away Hitsugaya's shikai and wasn't even trying, he could most likely take on Hitsugaya's bankai without releasing, and even if he had to release, he's still stronger than Hitsugaya (Byakuya effortlessly took out Espada 7)

You might be right on this one, i don't remeber this fight. Did toshiro have a limit here ? if so, its doesn't count.

Against Luppi; owned hard (Luppi would have killed him if he used his full power).

I doubt it.

Or in simpler words, Hitsugaya is a weakling.

In other words, your underestimating him

We have every reason, it's just that fans of Hitsugaya fail to see it.

I'm not a toshiro fan, i just like the guy. Christ :p

[Undying]

WTf ? gin is always smiling even while battling and keepin his eyes almost closed, i'm telling you, he only openes his eyes when something serious happens. He got his arm frozen and was freakin surprised, that's why he opend his eyes. If he was still playing, he wouldn't have bothered.
So what.
Wtf ? Renji was pwning Ichigo with a freakin power limit. Ichigo at the time was simply weak.
And then Ichigo became stronger than him :p. Or in a more direct statement, Vice-captains > regular shinigami.
My point, Histugaya didn't fail because the battle was interrupted and second we don't know how powerful gin is, who might be able to easily overpower byakuya for all we know (we haven't really seen what he can do) so toshiro didn't do so bad against him.
Hitsugaya failed. Gin was in total control of the fight for the entire time, from start to finish. It's got nothing to do with Gin being strong or weak, it's got anything to do with Hitsugaya being weak.
That doesn't mean he couldn't have flashed ichigo. He uses shunpo all the time.
Where? As far as I recall that's anime only stuff, the only two instances where he used something that may be classified as Shunpo was when the sound effects were... "running".
I know this. I'm just saiying i don't think byakuya could penetrate toshiro's ice shield if he could barely press trough kariya's wind barrier (i know its filler but it happend)
It never happened, therefore this argument is null, therefore... wtf, you're using fillers for an argument? That's autofail.
Who knows? i've never seen byakuya fight at 20 %. Have you ? i doubt it.

I've seen them fight at 100%, and I know who had the more impressive results.
Doing better ? if i recall it, renji's bankai just got smashed by espada nr. 8.
You recall wrong.

Mr. Szayel studied every single aspect of Renji's bankai, and created a dampener which closed Renji's ability to use it. It's got nothing to do with it.

Not to mention that Renji didn't nearly die from wounds sustained while fighting in bankai.
Says who ? i say renji is way below toshiro.
Says everyone who is not a Toushiro fan.

It's just a question of who demonstrated greater feats. Hitsugaya's "greatest feat" was failing miserably. Renji showed extremely fast development with his bankai, which in itself is already superior to Toushiro's, due to size and area damage (and not belonging to the most phail character in the series).
I have glasses. Wasn't even fighting him ? sure he wasnt putting much effort into it, but he was just about to get forced to power up or die (since hitsuyuga had him cornered and forced him to trigger his shikai). I think its a coward move of gin to attack hinamori, to escape fighting toshiro. If he was that superior, he could have smacked toshiro unconscious and then kill hinamori on his ease. BEsides, toshiro hadn't used bankai yet.
Gin didn't even release when fighting. Hitsugaya went shikai.

And Gin's target was never Hitsugaya. There was no "cowardly escape move TM" involved. Gin's target was Hinamori (Aizen wanted her dead).

And he never tried to hit Hitsugaya either. His aim was clearly at Hinamori all along.
Owned harder ? ichigo was almost sliced in half and his bankai got stopped with one finger and renji's zanpaktou got destroyed. Aizen used hypnosis to beat toshiro probably because he didn't dare to block that attackt himself, while with ichigo, he simply used his finger Besides, Ichigo's bankai isn't of the type to "break" when he gets injured. His bankai always stays on after he gets beat.
That's three mistakes you made in a row, awesome display of knowledge, I commend you.

Ichigo's bankai disappears when he is close to death. We've seen it.

Ichigo was nearly sliced in two - but still alive! - while Hitsu was down from a single slash of Aizen's sword.

And Aizen didn't use his hypnosis on Hitsugaya, because kiddo was never exposed to the ritual.
Why ? he was just cut up bad. BYakuya after a few slices from ichigo was also "almost dying" at the time toshiro's was slightly weaker then SHawlong, he gets cut up, but releasing his limit doesn't mean his wounds will heal does it ?

Byakuya was standing and still capable of fighting after taking dual getsuga Tenshou's from OGICHI in BANKAI. Learn your facts.

Hitsugaya received one slash to the body and was dying, from an opponent relatively close to him in power.

The release of the limit should have given Hitsu his full power, which gives him the ability to fight properly - and survive heavier wounds.
I doubt it.
He didn't. He clearly says "despite not having my limit on, he stopped me so easily" (or something along those lines, either way, Hitsu at 100% couldn't even properly freeze Yammy).
I doubt it.
That's why I said you need glasses, and you need them fast.

If Luppi used the spikes that are on his tentacles, Hitsu-boy would have been spitted and roasted before he could say hi.

In other words, your underestimating him
Following what I have seen of the character != underestimating him.

[diamondedge]

@Seff: You're obviously not serious. Saying Zaraki "only being knocked down" while he was clearly the only one out of 3 to get WTFPWNED. Oh look, he's not smiling anymore, he is SHOCKED!

Byakuya cut his own arm and leg, yeah, and DIDN'T EVEN FLINCH. Leave.

That's bullshit.
ORLY? Check the databooks. Hits already has 510/600. :)
While you're at it, check for Byakuya too. It says His abilities are FLAWLESS.

My point, Histugaya didn't fail because the battle was interrupted and second we don't know how powerful gin is, who might be able to easily overpower byakuya for all we know (we haven't really seen what he can do) so toshiro didn't do so bad against him.
"6th division captain is a scary man" -Ichimaru

That doesn't mean he couldn't have flashed ichigo. He uses shunpo all the time.
No more Bleach movies for you. He couldn't, because he would be busy being dead with a sliced throat. How the fu*k can you even compare Hits to him in speed??

I know this. I'm just saiying i don't think byakuya could penetrate toshiro's ice shield if he could barely press trough kariya's wind barrier (i know its filler but it happend)
Wha?
He wouldn't have to!!!!
Time needed to swing a sword with giant ice dragon >>>>> Time needed to murder someone with invisible blades.

Who knows? i've never seen Byakuya fight at 20 %. Have you ? i doubt it.
We all did, first time in living world.

At his EXACT 20%, he used his bssic ability and his VC still managed to miss 50% of his most basic senka attack by simply trying to fllow with his eyes. That is his 20% of not even trying. ^^

I have glasses. Wasn't even fighting him ? sure he wasnt putting much effort into it, but he was just about to get forced to power up or die (since hitsuyuga had him cornered and forced him to trigger his shikai). I think its a coward move of gin to attack hinamori, to escape fighting toshiro.
Wow, someone is taking the "heavenly guardian stuff" way too serious. Yes, that was SO unfair!
If Hitsu didn't not expect THAT, it just shows his inexperience. Zomari used Rukia and Byakuya fared WAY better in that situation. He reacted INSTANTLY, and the reaction was the CORRECT one. Can't say same for hits. Hinamori would have gotten killed if he didn't get help from Matsumoto. GG for brining that up!
All is allowed in love and war.

Owned harder ? ichigo was almost sliced in half and his bankai got stopped with one finger and renji's zanpaktou got destroyed.
Oh! So Ichigo actually managed to make Aizen block, while Toshiro simply hit a lot of good old nothing! Splendid.

Aizen used hypnosis to beat toshiro probably because he didn't dare to block that attackt himself
Surely. A man who one shot a bankai captain with 30% of his Kidou wouldn't DARE to block newbie bankai user!

Why ? he was just cut up bad. BYakuya after a few slices from ichigo was also "almost dying"
Oh really?
As far as I know, byakuya got slashed only once, and was able to continue with battle after initial shock. Ichigo in his hollow form NEVER injured him again. And since he was nearly dying, his bankai didn't dissapear, even more, Byakuya managed to form all his reiatsu to CHANGE the form of his previous bankai. If he was dying, his bankai would disappear. Instead, Byakyua formed a new one.

And was able to shunpo away from the fight, and take a hit from Gin's shikai - and live.

In other words, your underestimating him

In other words, you are delusional. Bankai Hissugaya BARELY won a regular ARRANCAR. That is truly worth of all appreciation.

And stop thinking you know anything of Bykauya.

[Seff vi Britannia]

@Seff: You're obviously not serious.

Oh dear, you're onto me.

Still, Zaraki's loving it, and you know it. : P

Wait a second, how did i manage to bring Zaraki into a Hitsugaya/Byakuya thread? Shit, i need more caffeine.

[Guy]

Toshiro has multiple abillities with his bankai aswell. ryūsenka, wich freezes anything toshiro stabs instantly to the core,

Yes, Toshiro can freeze millions of petals with that move...


sennen hyōrō, the ice prison and he can also fold his wings into a thick ice shield. Activating his bankai also automatically freezes the entire area in a radius of atleast 50 meters.

He needs time to do this: see the Luppi battle. Byakuya will not give him time.


And what the hell ? toshiro close to his limits ? he hasn't reached his potential yet. At full potential, it is said that toshiro will have *SPoiler* 30 ice flowers behind his back instead of 3 (wich is currently the case).

Read the databooks please, and we're not debating about future toshiro anways; we're talking about present toshiro.


And Histuyaga did hit Gin. Infact, he froze his left arm before gin even realised it. He was so surprised he even opened his eyes (and when gin opens his eyes, its pretty serious) Besides, "even" Gin is not an argument here. For all we know, Gin could be 10 times more powerful then byakuya himself (is their any proof that he isn't ? ).

Gin was serious only AFTER he got partially frozen by Hitsu's bankai. Before then, the only one serious was Hitsugaya. And there's NO proof that Byakuya is ten times stronger than Gin, kthnx.


And yes byakuya uses amzaing speed against Ichigo the first time they met, but ichigo was so weak at the time that he probably wouldn't even made it in the gotei 13 if he tried since he didn't even have shikai. Toshiro could probably have done the same thing at the time. True, toshiro has never shown that he could block byakuya's attack. Has byakuya ever proven that he could pierce toshiro's defence ? or that HE could block tohisro's freezing abillties/attack ? no.

And has Toshirou proved that he CAN?

Again comparing renji and Toshiro. Renji had JUST obtained bankai and did certainly NOT posses the same amount of spirit pressure as toshiro. While toshiro's bankai isn't that old, it isn't THAT young either. He has it for atleast a year (I doubt that its less then a year ago that toshiro became captain) Toshiro would've easily 'raped' renji's bankai aswell at the time if he wanted to. Toshiro "Owned by every oppenent ? Lets see. Against, Gin, undecided, but it could go any way and, as i said before, we don't know how powerful gin is so that is not ownage at all.

You can't be serious. You think Toshirou stands a chance against Gin?! That is beyond delusional.


Against Aizen, pretty much everyone would get owned. Ichigo got owned just as bad as Toshiro and byakuya would get pwnd by Aizen aswell. So that's not "real" defeat for toshiro (since everyone would get killed by aizen back then). Against the gillian arrancar, Toshiro had a freakin limit. He was five times weaker. After his limit got released, he pwnd the arrancer easily and after that he gave espada nr. 6 (Luppi) a pretty hard time. I fail to see were toshiro gets "owned" by virtually every opponent ? we don't even see him fight that much. So you have no reason at all to call him weaker then byakuya.

Actually, I do. Toshirou fared as poorly as RENJI is. That is a fact. He needed to lift his limit to beat a GILLIAN. Renji did the same thing. Hell, IKKAKU might be stronger than Toshirou! Ikkaku beated an arrancar without his limits lifted (not that he could've, anyways). Byakuya beated an ESPADA without an arm or a leg, and was strong enough to keep up with the FASTEST sonido user in the espada army. I'm sure little Toushirou who needs help beating vice captain level arrancars can fare well against Byakuya.

While loosing the use of two limbs and resorting to using a technique he didn't want to use in the process?

I know, because Byakuya's SKY wouldn't have been as effective if he hadn't lose his limbs. SKY's power is directly proportional to how much damage Byakuya had taken. BULLSHIT.

[Seff vi Britannia]

I know, because Byakuya's SKY wouldn't have been as effective if he hadn't lose his limbs. SKY's power is directly proportional to how much damage Byakuya had taken. BULLSHIT.


Wait, me is confused. What did i say to bring SKY into the topic again?

/me is tired.

I'm sure it's pretty feasible that the weaker the fighter in terms of fatigue/stamina, the weaker the bankai. I suppose.

[Guy]

You said that Byakuya did not effortlessly beat Zomari because he lost some of his limbs in that fight. Byakuya voluntarily cut his limbs and STILL effortlessly pwned Zomari with SKY.

[Undying]

You said that Byakuya did not effortlessly beat Zomari because he lost some of his limbs in that fight. Byakuya voluntarily cut his limbs and STILL effortlessly pwned Zomari with SKY.
Byakuya sliced Zomari to death with his sealed sword, what are you talking about.

[Guy]

Meh, so I guess that means unreleased Byakuya>>>>>unreleased Zomari who tried to do a low and dirty backstabbing trick

[Undying]

Meh, so I guess that means unreleased Byakuya>>>>>unreleased Zomari who tried to do a low and dirty backstabbing trick
That's indeed true :).

Byakuya is faster than poor little Zomari, what can I say. Fastest Espada... yeah right..

[diamondedge]

Wait, me is confused. What did i say to bring SKY into the topic again?
/me is tired.
I'm sure it's pretty feasible that the weaker the fighter in terms of fatigue/stamina, the weaker the bankai. I suppose.
STOP BSing ad trying to make Zaraki look stronger than he really is through this topic.

So far the ONLY reason bankai would be weak is due to inexperience. There has been NO evidence whatsoever that power of bankai is influenced by physical strength.

If that would be the case, Ukitake would be the weakest, and so would be Yamamoto's. :whatevah:

[Sendivoge]

He hurt himself.
You know, like what Zaraki does to limit himself? Because he's too uber for others?
And as for "a technique he didn't want to use"... I lol'd.
Surely you can't compare that to Zaraki's methods of handicapping himself. Byakuya attacking his own limbs was a matter of necessity. He was forced to discard them because they were no longer his. Not doing it doesn't make him stronger, it makes him weaker. Therein lies the difference.

I take it you laugh off things you can't argue with. It wasn't effortlessly won, and Byakuya used more than 2 attacks. It was later that he realized the similarities between leroux's attacks and kidou, thus gaining a huge advantage.

I know, because Byakuya's SKY wouldn't have been as effective if he hadn't lose his limbs. SKY's power is directly proportional to how much damage Byakuya had taken. BULLSHIT.
If you're arguing against effectiveness of bankai being proportional to how hurt someone is, your first sentence has errors in it. I can't be sure, but i doubt it's just me misunderstanding something clear.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Byakuya sliced Zomari to death with his sealed sword, what are you talking about.

Yeah, Guy is right, that's what i thought happened too.

@Dia,
Yamma, lacking in strength!? Christ, look at the dude! He's more toned than freaking Arnold!


lol


Back on topic, Hitsugaya wins effortlessley. Ice God reincarnated and all that. : )
(joke)

[h3h3h3]

Hitsugaya in Bankai can deflect Byakuya's SKY quite easily. Any fire/ice and wind based technique can counter Byakuya's SKY. Don't make Byakuya look godly for the fact he isn't close to.

If Hitsugaya catches him in his ice, he couldn't get rid of it, he is no powerhouse.

Even if Hitsugaya is weak. He is a captain. And stands a fair chance against Byakuya believe it or not.

[diamondedge]

You don't have to be godly to defeat Histugaya. :)
And NO, Histugaya does not stand a chance.

Proof that any fire/ice technique can deflect SKY please? especially if it's slower than SKY? I don't quite think Hyourinmaru has the speed of Tensa Zangetsu. Do you even have proof Hyourinmaru's destructive power is great enough to stop SKY? SKY is AoE and it's not a single attack like Hyourinmaru is. prove that Histugaya with his noob abilities can react so fast to even attempt blocking SKY, not being speed specialist and without mastering his bankai.

Major lulz to you sir.

[Geb]

Without any proof/flashing chapters in the face/..., Byakuya would beat the hell out of him. There.
I'm not a Byakuya fanboy for the record. He is generally portrayed as a better/stronger/cooler captain. :)
Hits is also quite good, but he still needs to eat some more carrots to achieve B.'s level. And the fact that he's young, and little, blah blah....

[B-Eazy]

... um Nii -sama. Do I really even need to back it up

[Undying]

@Dia: add h3h3h3 to your ignore list like I did, and stop feeding that troll. All he wants is a reaction from you :rolleye09.

As for the topic, stating that Hisugaya can beat Byakuya... that's lulz. Just lulz.

[h3h3h3]

You don't have to be godly to defeat Histugaya. :)
And NO, Histugaya does not stand a chance.He does.


Proof that any fire/ice technique can deflect SKY please?
Fire burns/melts them. Ice freezes them.
especially if it's slower than SKY? I don't quite think Hyourinmaru has the speed of Tensa Zangetsu. What do you mean? Ice is an element and SKY is huge anything can hit it.

Do you even have proof Hyourinmaru's destructive power is great enough to stop SKY?
:facepalm: It freezes them not destroy.

SKY is AoE and it's not a single attack like Hyourinmaru is. prove that Histugaya with his noob abilities can react so fast to even attempt blocking SKY.Hitsugaya can put Hyourinmaru around himself. The petals freeze. SKY is so big you can see it coming from miles away.

Not being speed specialist and without mastering his bankai.
Given Byakuya wins this,(I voted for ''Byakuya easily wins'') but not with the kinda ease you think. Hitsugaya has the potential to give Byakuya a really good match.


Major lulz to you sir.
Don't copy Undying. It's lame, Miss.

[diamondedge]

He does.
Fire burns/melts them. Ice freezes them.
I demanded proof. I see none. :)

What do you mean? Ice is an element and SKY is huge anything can hit it.
SKY is invisible. :)
"The blade DISSAPEARED."
So, invisible blades are more visible than giant ice dragon. Examine what you're saying.
They are so visible you can't even see it coming. GG!

:facepalm: It freezes them not destroy.
Prove it can. Gin easily deflected the entire force of Histu's shikai with his own - without Shinsho being frozen. Doesn't exactly seem like Histugaya's weapon has AoE of SKY, being blocked by a tip of a sword.

Hitsugaya can put Hyourinmaru around himself. The petals freeze. SKY is so big you can see it coming from miles away.
Prove it.

Given Byakuya wins this,(I voted for ''Byakuya easily wins'') but not with the kinda ease you think. Hitsugaya has the potential to give Byakuya a really good match.

Read the databooks honey, Histugaya is at his limits. He has no potential (anymore), potential allowed him exceptionally fast growth, but I never saw anything about Hitsugaya having extended potential in late game. ^^

[Undying]

He does.
He doesn't.
Fire burns/melts them. Ice freezes them.

Too many to be of any effect, even if it does freeze them.
What do you mean? Ice is an element and SKY is huge anything can hit it.
SKY isn't a singular object. It is composed of millions of blades. Effectively freezing them all is impossible, since there are too many objects
:facepalm: It freezes them not destroy.
:facepalm:
Hitsugaya can put Hyourinmaru around himself. The petals freeze. SKY is so big you can see it coming from miles away.
Hitsugaya can't freeze stuff when he puts Hyourinmaru around himself, we've seen it in the Luppi fight.

SKY is invisible.

It is impossible to effectively freeze so many objects.
Given Byakuya wins this,(I voted for ''Byakuya easily wins'') but not with the kinda ease you think. Hitsugaya has the potential to give Byakuya a really good match.
The only thing Hitsugaya has the potential to give Byakuya is a bj... I mean, a strain in the arm from holding back his sword all the time so that kiddie-cappy can play.
Don't copy Undying. It's lame, Miss.
Said the man who constantly copied me :rolleye09 . Besides, Dia can copy me, she's got permission. And it's still major lulz factor.

[Seff vi Britannia]

h3h3h3, lol, whle i would normally love to have lulz with you, i have to say i am

withthebyakuyafansonthisone

/get it over with quickly.


Yeah, i suppose it's feasible that a wind attack would dissapate SKY, but fire? Ice?

: /

[The sunlight]

So what.

Nothing so what. You said its bullshit. I say it ain't. That's what.

And then Ichigo became stronger than him :p. Or in a more direct statement, Vice-captains > regular shinigami.

And renji had a limit. regular shinigami > 20 % vice captain
Besides, ichigo wasn't even controlling his own force. It coul'dve stopped any minute.

Hitsugaya failed. Gin was in total control of the fight for the entire time, from start to finish. It's got nothing to do with Gin being strong or weak, it's got anything to do with Hitsugaya being weak.

Yes, he was. I'm just saying at the end toshiro was able to surprise Gin, showing that he's not that weak (because Gin is probably insanely strong)

Where? As far as I recall that's anime only stuff, the only two instances where he used something that may be classified as Shunpo was when the sound effects were... "running".

Where ? he uses shunpo when running with matsumoto, he uses shunpo to get to hinamori after she gets stabbed by aizen, he uses Shunpo against Gin, and he uses shunpo against Shawlong.

It never happened, therefore this argument is null, therefore... wtf, you're using fillers for an argument? That's autofail.

That's why i said it was lame. But it was just to show you the writers made him do what he did.

I've seen them fight at 100%, and I know who had the more impressive results.

Maybe because byakuya got opponents that were below or on his level, why toshiro always gets stronger opponents.

You recall wrong.

Mr. Szayel studied every single aspect of Renji's bankai, and created a dampener which closed Renji's ability to use it. It's got nothing to do with it.

I don't read the manga, so to me it seems as Szayel just smashed it. I apologize for this.

Not to mention that Renji didn't nearly die from wounds sustained while fighting in bankai.

What are you trying to prove with this ? BYakuya made his bankai disappear because renji was almost dying while fighting IN BANKAI. And when fighting the arrancar, i guess he just got lucky. For all we know renji's "arrancar" could have been weaker then toshiro's.

Says everyone who is not a Toushiro fan.

I'm not a toshiro fan. And i'm saying it.

It's just a question of who demonstrated greater feats. Hitsugaya's "greatest feat" was failing miserably. Renji showed extremely fast development with his bankai, which in itself is already superior to Toushiro's, due to size and area damage (and not belonging to the most phail character in the series).

If you'd place renji against the opponents Toshiro fought, he would get smacked even faster.


Gin didn't even release when fighting. Hitsugaya went shikai.

So did Gin, when toshiro had him trapped.

And Gin's target was never Hitsugaya. There was no "cowardly escape move TM" involved. Gin's target was Hinamori (Aizen wanted her dead).


And he never tried to hit Hitsugaya either. His aim was clearly at Hinamori all along.

Did I say he tried to hit Hitsugaya ? i'm just saying it wa the perfect time for Gin to trigger his shikai, because he was trapped. He knew toshiro would dodge that so his attention would be elsewere. Otherwise, why wouldn't Gin have killed hinamori when he wasn't trapped ? he could've finished her off swiftly even before the battle started. Eventually, Gin didn't even fullfil his "mission". Gin probably thought he kould disable toshiro and then kill hinamori. I guess it was tougher then he tought.

That's three mistakes you made in a row, awesome display of knowledge, I commend you.

Its not a mistake, its a different point of view.

Ichigo's bankai disappears when he is close to death. We've seen it.

When ? after he fights byakuya, he stays in bankai. After he fight grims for the first time, he stays in bankai after getting a huge pummeling. After getting sliced by aizen, he stays in bankai. Conclusion, he stays in it more times than he doesn't.

Ichigo was nearly sliced in two - but still alive! - while Hitsu was down from a single slash of Aizen's sword.

Was toshiro dead ? no. Toshiro and ichigo both got sliced just once. Ichigo was down too. And toshiro was down because of the shock and the greater impact since the slice was combined with shunpo while with ichigo it wasn't.

And Aizen didn't use his hypnosis on Hitsugaya, because kiddo was never exposed to the ritual.

He didn't ? then what the hell was the aizen toshiro stabbed and froze ? that's right, a fake aizen. Watch the fight again.

Byakuya was standing and still capable of fighting after taking dual getsuga Tenshou's from OGICHI in BANKAI. Learn your facts.

We never see him take the direct hit without blocking, dodging or using reiatsu to protect himself.

Hitsugaya received one slash to the body and was dying, from an opponent relatively close to him in power.