Kakashi Versus Sasuke [Manga]

[Seff vi Britannia]

Just a point before we begin.

Sasuke does not have mangekyou sharingan.

Made this battle because it actually seems that Sasuke is more powerful than Kakashi at the moment, which is dumb.

Discuss.

[Decado]

Kakashi even said naruto is stronger than him. What a load of crap. It must just be that technique.

Anyway, with the level of expertise and experience Kakashi has, and all his abilities, I don't really see him losing.
It would be a real good fight though. Each is pretty fast, and Sasuke is considered fast by an Akatsuki member, which has to count for something.
He's even got CS2, to give Kakashi a run for his money... but in the end Kakashi will prevail.

[Draffut]

Kakashi even said naruto is stronger than him. What a load of crap. It must just be that technique.

IIRC, Kakshi said Naruto surpassed him in a way. I gues that way wouldbe the jusu and chakra capacity. overall I think Kakashi still wins.

As far the the subject.... Kakashi SHOULD be stronger. But good charecter development is no match for Kishimoto-orgasms, so unfortuantly Sasuke wins this one.

[Kuroi Getsuga Tenshou]

Kakashi even said naruto is stronger than him. What a load of crap. It must just be that technique.
that's what makes me wanna puke the most in Naruto, if it was a fight between the two of them on the other with Naruto emerging victorious that would be another story..:sad

[Grimjaw_Bankai]

Kakashi would just magekyou his head off

[ninjabot]

I don't think 3rd lvl Sharingan can counter or endure having your head emploded. Kakashi wins.

[Lex]

As much as I want Kakashi to wins I think Sasuke might just win now...but narrowly!

[Lust]

hmm if this battle last too long,sasugay opps i mean sasuke will win since kakashi cant use his sharingan too long cooz he has no uchiha clan blood....plus we still not yet see what gay technique....i mean technique that sasuke have been saving
and bout that mangekyou...it seem that it can be counter if you dodge it instead wait for it to come to you ex like deidara...like a fool wait there and get hit by the skill...i doubt i dont think sasuke will be that stupid to wait there watching that skill coming for his ass plus he got godmod curse seal and the eyes.....

[cranberrysauce]

Sasuke all the way, not much Kakashi can do about his speed because i think sasuke is alot faster.

[Juujika]

kakashi would win, Kakashi sharingan > sasuke sharingan.

sasuke curse seal > kakashi's nothing special ability

Kakashi's jutsu's > sasukes jutsu's

hard to figure out..

[Jay3205]

Sasuke would win. Kakashi admitted to Naruto being stronger than Kakashi, and Sasuke at the current point in the story is greater than Naruto. Naruto can surprise 1-shot an Akatsuki member, while Sasuke can actually keep up/defend against two of them simultaneously while likely also having an uber jutsu.

Kakashi's mangekyou sharingan won't help him much, since it takes too much chakra and can miss... which would make it very difficult to land on another Sharingan user.

Also, Sasuke's jutsu > Kakashi's jutsu. Kakashi may know more, but the bulk of them he doesn't use for one reason or another... likely because they are not as lethal as the ones he does use. Sasuke has already improved Kakashi's chidori and has accomplished shape + form manipulation. Currently, Sasuke wins.

[Nood]

Naruto doesnt come into picture, both of them could beat Naruto with ease.

Fact is, Sasuke got 1500 layers of plot armor on him, while Kakashi has a heavy advantage with MS.
Sasuke would win, not only because the plot armor, but because the battle cant happen without Kakashi's "I cant kill my own student" plot device triggering.
So he wouldnt use MS, or would screw it up, both resulting in hes loss.

[Draffut]

Kakashi's MS takes him a long time to "cast" if you will. requires alot of focus, and he still doesn't have very good aim with it.

If you think he can hit Sasuke with it, who has been shown to have... well... stupidly fast speed. You are crazy.

And because of his Uchiha blood Sasuke's Sharingan is superior to Kakashi in just about every other way.

unfortunatly, at the manga's expense, Sasuke would win this pretty handily.

[Seff vi Britannia]

And i think that wraps the thread up and proves how insanely overpowered sasuke is =]

[Juujika]

sasuke balls anyone?

[Lust]

Naruto doesnt come into picture, both of them could beat Naruto with ease.
dissagree....kakashi did say that naruto already surpass him when he finnish training his wind element rasengan and back to the topic....i dont see anyway that sasuke can lost to kakashi no matter in srenght,speed,skill,eye,etc

[Juujika]

dissagree....kakashi did say that naruto already surpass him when he finnish training his wind element rasengan and back to the topic....i dont see anyway that sasuke can lost to kakashi no matter in srenght,speed,skill,eye,etc
naruto only surpassed kakashi in completeing a jutsu no one could, other wise speed, intelligences etc naruto is still far behind. Sasuke still doesnt have the sharingan like kakashi does so sasuke loses their. Jutsu wise we dont know if kakashi came up with newer ones but sasuke has the advantage in ninjutsu.

[Seff vi Britannia]

No, he dosen't. Kakashi knows over 1000 Jutsu. He's not an elite jounin for no reason.

[Juujika]

then kakashi is victor

[ninjabot]

That was another point I should've brought up ealier. More experience and more jutsu at Kakashi's disposal would bring him the win, not the MS, because Sasuke is most likely fast enough to avoid that jutsu Kakashi used against Deidara. But, knowing any of Sasuke's weaknesses, knowing how to counter Sasuke's jutsus with elements that beat his own. We know Sasuke uses Fire and Lightning, Kakashi should use Water and Wind...but Lightning beats Water and I think Kakashi said he didn't know Wind manipulation. Okay, bad example.

But he's still got the esperience and jutsus to spare.

[Juujika]

Your under estimating kakashi's MS, its not slow it effects the whole area.

[Seff vi Britannia]

It's hard to aim. But yes, Susanoo is an area-of-effect attack. If Kakashi could surprise atack or use it while Sasuke was busy...

[Lust]

Your under estimating kakashi's MS, its not slow it effects the whole area.
but remember,if he miss then he will be dead since it use too much energy out of him...and i think sasuke can dodge it

[ninjabot]

Yeah, explosive heatseaking clay dragons can be considered area of effect weapons aswell, and we see how effective they were. Kakashi's gonna have to play this one carefully. Blanket the field with mist, attack from underground, call in the dog patrol, and pull off something big enough to K.O. Sasuke while in CS2.

But how would he aim Susanoo it he knew how to create the mist? Any jutsu he uses to limit Sasuke's sight would do the same to his own, unless he just smoke bombed him from afar. It's doable, but it's gonna be tough.

[Jay3205]

Kakashi knows a ton of jutsu, but how many does he actually use? If he had a ton of great jutsu, chances are he would be using them when he fights Akatsuki members instead of relying on the good ol raikiri.

In addition, the story is set up so Sasuke, Naruto, and Sakura will eventually equal or surpass their respective san-nin, who are far stronger than Kakashi. Orochimaru's already out of it, and chances are he won't return to his full power. Sakura is already a miniature Tsunade. Jiraiya will eventually be overcome due to Shadow-clone training, elemental manipulation, and 9-tails cheapness that can make retards uber-strong. It's the whole "new generation beats the old" philosophy.

[ninjabot]

Exactly. Right after the fight with Kakuzu and Hidan, Kakashi has his monologue about how each generation surpasses the next. Then he spoke of Naruto surpassing him, and Orochimaru spoke of how Sasuke was stronger than himself at 15, all in rapid succesion. It's like Kishimoto was stating it to death on purpose to avoid having to explain power boosts later.

Oh, and as for the good ol' Raikiri, it makes sense that a ninja who knows lots of jutsus would rely on the ones that shared the same element of himself, because it would be more effective and easier to pull off as well. Still, it's good to have options.

[Gettles]

Exactly. Right after the fight with Kakuzu and Hidan, Kakashi has his monologue about how each generation surpasses the next. Then he spoke of Naruto surpassing him, and Orochimaru spoke of how Sasuke was stronger than himself at 15, all in rapid succesion. It's like Kishimoto was stating it to death on purpose to avoid having to explain power boosts later.


That speech that Kakashi made was honestly ironic, considering it took 5 people from the current generation to take down Kazuku.

[Seff vi Britannia]

9TN > All.

So yeah, Naruto IS more powerful than Kakashi.

=]

[.Rik-uh-shey]

i voted for Sasuke to win easily. =P i dont need to state a reason because my Kishimoto loves Sasuke statement has become cliche..

[Jay3205]

That speech that Kakashi made was honestly ironic, considering it took 5 people from the current generation to take down Kazuku.True, but then again Choji, Ino, and Sakura are weak compared to Naruto, who is weak compared to the current Sasuke. Although only 5 current gen. ninjas fought Kazuku, only 1 was really needed to win.

[Draffut]

True, but then again Choji, Ino, and Sakura are weak compared to Naruto, who is weak compared to the current Sasuke. Although only 5 current gen. ninjas fought Kazuku, only 1 was really needed to win.

Did you just say that only one of the ninja who fought Kakuzu was needed to beat him?

That is hilarious. Would you point out who this would be? If you want to say Naruto, his jutsu would not be able to break through Kakuzu's stone skin, which required a high level Lightning jutsu to pierce.

It took a combined effort of Kakashi, Chouji, Shikamaru, Naruto, and Yamoto, to beat him. and actually relied a large amount on Hidan's massive incompitence to remove one of the hearts.

Thank you, and have a nice day.

[.Rik-uh-shey]

Did you just say that only one of the ninja who fought Kakuzu was needed to beat him?
That is hilarious. Would you point out who this would be? If you want to say Naruto, his jutsu would not be able to break through Kakuzu's stone skin, which required a high level Lightning jutsu to pierce.
It took a combined effort of Kakashi, Chouji, Shikamaru, Naruto, and Yamoto, to beat him. and actually relied a large amount on Hidan's massive incompitence to remove one of the hearts.
Thank you, and have a nice day.

i do not deny that Naruto could not beat Kakuzu by himself. but im pretty sure that his jutsu would be able to break through his stone skin because it leaves craters when its used. you dont see chidori doing that =/.

[Draffut]

Actually, it has to do with the whole pokemon element BS Kishi came up with. Lightning beats Rock, and I assume that jutsu rock skin infused with alot of Chakra is tougher then the regular ground. Just like Gaara's sand becomes alot tougher then normal sand.

[.Rik-uh-shey]

yah but his rasengan LEAVES CRATERS. this cannot be denied rofl =P. i still think that it would have pwned his rock skin no matter what element it was.
and besides ive played pokemon... and my charizard PWNED gary's Blastoise!!!!!!!

[Draffut]

yah but his rasengan LEAVES CRATERS. this cannot be denied rofl =P. i still think that it would have pwned his rock skin no matter what element it was.
and besides ive played pokemon... and my charizard PWNED gary's Blastoise!!!!!!!

Lee's Taijutsu also leaves craters, and it can't pierce Gaara's sand, only go around it. It took a Chidori to pierce strait through, which is lightning based.

Also, concidering the Jutsu's that Kakuzu used where A and S ranked, it would take a perfect counter to pierce it. Not just a really stong one.

[Alex26]

Chidoi works like a blade while rasengan/Lee's tai works like a hammer >.< (yea, i like RPGs... XD) Try to pierce a sponge with the eraser side of a pencil, then try to pierce the sponge with the other side and compare with wich one was easier to poke a hole... Then try to crush a rock with a hammer and afterwards try to CRUSH a rock with a blade and compare ... At least imagine it >.<
However, i really doubt rasengan wouldnt scratch the dude's rock skin. Imo, it would take at least one of his limbs. With the Odama one i think it would've blown at least half of the dude's body away easly.
Oh, and about the elements thing... that sux, that was really bad move, putting the element weakness thing, now the serie's fighting mech will be limited to the BS elemental weakness kishi added. Fire beats wind my azz >.<

oh, and kaka > sas :Domo

[Gettles]

Chidoi works like a blade while rasengan/Lee's tai works like a hammer >.< (yea, i like RPGs... XD) Try to pierce a sponge with the eraser side of a pencil, then try to pierce the sponge with the other side and compare with wich one was easier to poke a hole... Then try to crush a rock with a hammer and afterwards try to CRUSH a rock with a blade and compare ... At least imagine it >.<


Actually your analogy is flawed as its more like a wall than a sponge. Try taking down a wall with a blade and then try a hammer and see what works better.

[Lust]

>_>"
guys all of us know that.....oro pawn kakashi but sasuke pawn him back fine you can say oro is a sick b******d and thats why he lose but nobody can overcome that frickin other dimesion jutsu,i dont think even kakashi can do that but sasuke can if this is not enough.....sasuke attacks has become incredibly stronger than he uses too(duh) and we still dont know what secret jutsu he still kept under his sleeve while kakashi say he create a new jutsu(ms) but that not enough for him to take on sasuke

[Hanatarō]

Somehow it would stop half way into the fight...Somehow?

[Alex26]

Actually your analogy is flawed as its more like a wall than a sponge. Try taking down a wall with a blade and then try a hammer and see what works better.

yaya, thats what happens when one tries to look cool XDXD

Easier, Rasengan smashes things, chidori pierces through things, big difference, but sasuke was retarded so he didnt noticed when he first fought naruto, and got pissed off for nothing >.<

And actually, sasuke's attacks might be a little stronger but notice he hasnt been praised for the power of his attacks, just for the speed. He sure has become a better fighter and a bit stronger but it doesnt means he's wtf 133t 60d haxors pwnzors. It can be said that Sasuke's the same as Kakashi, they both fight on a smart way. About the dimention thing, that was confusing XDXD. It seems oro wasnt really killed, he was suppresed onto sasuke's unconscious or however thats spelled. Just like orochimaru did with his other containers. Surprising, not much, sharingan has been known to be dam good against genjutsu and mind things. And Orochimaru being sick does counts. He was even taken by surprise and got his hands hurt, so he didnt had a chance to make any seals. Some says that Orochimaru's true body is his strongest form but i really doubt it. Oro's all about jutsu's and that snake had no hands to make seals, so no matterr how many jutsus he knows, while on that form they all are useless and thats a big con there >.<

Anyway, i guess kaka's not that amazing either, he really doesnt live up to his nicknames, and when he fought Deidara is when you can see he's not that amazing. I mean, you have 1000 jutsus, and you want to tell me, there not even one long range jutsu you could've used to battle Dei, and theres not one jutsu to have finished him, he just had the MS that f's you up for a few weeks >.< Out of 1000 jutsus, he chose the one that f's him up... makes sence >.<

ah... thats a lot of writing there XDXD

[Seff vi Britannia]

>_>"
guys all of us know that.....oro pawn kakashi but sasuke pawn him back fine you can say oro is a sick b******d and thats why he lose but nobody can overcome that frickin other dimesion jutsu,i dont think even kakashi can do that but sasuke can if this is not enough

^^ Sasuke used sharingan to defeat it. Kakashi has a higher form Sharingan than Sasuke. Kakashi Sharingan > Sasuke Sharingan.


.....sasuke attacks has become incredibly stronger than he uses too(duh)

^^ As has Kakashi's.

and we still dont know what secret jutsu he still kept under his sleeve while kakashi say he create a new jutsu(ms) but that not enough for him to take on sasuke

^^Kakashi knows over 1000 Jutsu, all at a higher level than Sasuke.




Byebye Sasghey fanboy =\


(Btw, would it hurt to use word order? =\)

[Lust]

lol dark nah i not his fanboy but heck you trying to prove white is balck,how can i stand that?
kakshi eye indeed better than sasuke...lol yea,he cant use it for long because he doesnt have the uchiha blood,that mean even he has ma he cant control it properly thus sauske can dodge it easily
^^ As has Kakashi's.
>_>"
he oly say he learn a new jutsu that is ma...and that all...nothing stated by him bout getting stronger...
^^Kakashi knows over 1000 Jutsu, all at a higher level than Sasuke.
didnt you read? we dont know wth oro teach sasuke and how much(remember,oro knew more jutsu than kakashi) so we cant assume that kakashi has more jutsu than him also that those jutsu are stronger than his
It seems oro wasnt really killed, he was suppresed onto sasuke's unconscious or however thats spelled
hmm or maybe oro become sasuke body or watsoever,we dont know since it didnt tell much info bout it

[Bankai_Zangetsu]

u know i mean pretty sure FRS would beat kakuzus stone skin ... i mean nartuos jutsu is like .. holy shit lol .. plus that jutsu attacks the cells of its opponent not just batters em like normal rasengan... anyways i think sasuke would actually win against kakashi but owuld ahve a really ahrd time ... remember the first meeting with sasuke at oros place when he asked .. is kakashi here ? well hes prolly a lil afraid of kakashi but .. im not sure. CS2 is the cheapest thing next to sharingan that sasuke could receive lol

[Lust]

naruto jutsu damge himself too.....but to those been hit will be instant dead...and kakashi is not there because he not yet recover his strenght after use the ms at deidara and....wth he shud be afraid? i dont see in the manga state he afraid to go save sauske... -_-

[99wattr89]

I think Kakashi would claim a narrow victory.

[KholdStare]

I believe that Kakashi's MS would prove to be too much for Sasuke. Kakashi's fighting experience exceeds Sasuke's as well so I think he would have a couple of tricks up his sleeve.

[mangaman16]

Yes i agree.Kakashi would murder sasuke.I think they would go all out but kakashi would still have another trick up his sleeve which would finish sasuke.Kakashi has the experience,better MS imo,alot more ninjutsus.

[Lelouch]

OFC sasuke wins.. Battle experience my ass... Sasuke is far stronger than any jounin.. He beat Orochimaru. Do you realize how strong he is? And dont spit any "MS is stronger" crap on me. Just having an MS cant win an impossible fight. Sasuke > Kakashi in every possible #@!$ing way... Speed , power , everything. Even jutsu.. ( He knows orochimaru's jutsu so dont " he is the copy ninja " bable me lol )

[GodzillaCorleone]

Sasuke said himself that Orochimaru was weakned him, and that defeating him wasn't much of a feat. your argument fails.

[KholdStare]

OFC sasuke wins.. Battle experience my ass... Sasuke is far stronger than any jounin.. He beat Orochimaru. Do you realize how strong he is? And dont spit any "MS is stronger" crap on me. Just having an MS cant win an impossible fight. Sasuke > Kakashi in every possible #@!$ing way... Speed , power , everything. Even jutsu.. ( He knows orochimaru's jutsu so dont " he is the copy ninja " bable me lol )


Having MS can't win an impossible fight? I think you need to rewatch the part where Itachi saved himself and Kisame from Jiraya's jutsu with MS. Jiraya himself had stated that it was "impossible" for any ninja to escape alive but it was due to Itachi's MS ablities that he was able to retreat safely. MS has been shown to be one of the most powerful abilities in the entire manga.

Secondly, I don't understand how you want us to discount the fact that Kakashi knows over 1,000 jutsu. So we must inform you that he IS the copy ninja with thousands of jutsus.

Battle experience is a big factor. Do not discount that Kakashi became a jounin at only age 13 and was in the ANBU. His experience would be a clear asset to his battle abilities.

As others have stated, Sasuke HIMSELF stated that defeating Orochimaru was no big feat because of how much he was weakened.

[II Xion II]

Kakashi has Mangekyou Sharingan, Sasuke does not have Mangekyou Sharingan
Therefore:

if(Kakashi + experience + ms + totalWin > sasugaySharinganHax)
{
Sasuke = runawayUchiha;
WTFPWNED = true;
return KakashiOWNZ;
}

[Lelouch]

..............................................Kakashi would lose... If Sasuke used his Cursed Seal it would be over. Simply. Im not Sasuke fan and i prefer Kakashi actually from the gayass uchiha. But you must REALIZE that the fag can pawn the cool dude...

P.S he was anbu in 13. So what? Naruto was a total newb till Jiraiya taught him techniques. But if Jiraiya instructed him earlier he would be badass when he was younger. And with Kakashi having the White Fang as his father , im sure that they made ''private training''. Thus comes the 13 aged anbu. Besides age doesnt matter. Haku was stronger tha kakashi when he was 15.. so what? does this mean than when he grew up he would be godlike? no.. he could stay at that lvl.

[Seff vi Britannia]

OFC sasuke wins.. Battle experience my ass... Sasuke is far stronger than any jounin..

If you think so, this can't be proved/disproved either way.

He beat Orochimaru. Do you realize how strong he is?

I go into a hospital and stab a former boxing champion who is recovering from lung cancer, multiple scelerosis, and a brain tumor through the heart. Do you realise how strong i am?

And dont spit any "MS is stronger" crap on me.

MS>Normal Sharingan. (even 3x)

Just having an MS cant win an impossible fight.

Itachi versus Jiraiya. Kakashi versus Deidara. Both times, MS was used to escape seemingly impossible situations.

Sasuke > Kakashi in every possible #@!$ing way... Speed

Prove it.

power

Prove it. But i doubt a 15 year old is physically stronger than a twenty-something elite jounin.

everything.

Fanboy bollocks.

Even jutsu.. ( He knows orochimaru's jutsu so dont " he is the copy ninja " bable me lol )

Actually, in the latest manga chapter, Sasuke specifically stated he had not gained Orochimaru's jutsu! In any case, Sasuke does not know 1000 jutsu, and any jutsu he does know, Kakashi will simply use against him with the superior sharingan.



Your first post...

..............................................Kakashi would lose... If Sasuke used his Cursed Seal it would be over.

Curse seal level 2 is highly overrated. He used it against Deidara and the battle ended up in a draw (Sasuke was saved only by plot no jutsu.)
In addition, it is shown to drain Sasuke's chakra. And, er, Susanoo... -.- byebye wings.
In any case, it's been shown that the curse seal form can be damaged, and Sasuke cannot regenerate it.


Simply. Im not Sasuke fan and i prefer Kakashi actually from the gayass uchiha.

Your comments make it look otherwise.

P.S he was anbu in 13. So what? Naruto was a total newb till Jiraiya taught him techniques. But if Jiraiya instructed him earlier he would be badass when he was younger.

Er, Kakashi didn't have Jiriaya...(Admitedley, he had the fourth. But the Fourth was to Kakashi as Kakashi is to Naruto)

And with Kakashi having the White Fang as his father , im sure that they made ''private training''.

Prove it. We don't know enough about Kakashi's past - but his father commits sepuuku sometime before Kakashi Gaiden - in which he's only a jounin.


Haku was stronger tha kakashi when he was 15.. so what?

Prove it.

does this mean than when he grew up he would be godlike? no.. he could stay at that lvl.

An absurd statement - if Haku had continued to train, his skills would have increased. Besides, read my above statement.




You are sadly misguided.

[Lelouch]

/suicide... I wont say anything , but the "Prove it" part is really retarded...whatever whatever,,

[Seff vi Britannia]

My comment was really retarded? You're the one stating "facts" that have never been shown to be true. If you make baseless assumptions, then i'll ask you to prove those. Simple.

[Wanderweiss]

I believe Sasuke would be Kakashi. No he wouldn't wtfpwn him, no he wouldn't make Kakashi look silly. But let's face it, he's the 'genius' of the series.

First of all, to rebuttal all of the 'Kakashi Sharingan > Sasuke Sharingan' you have to look at it this way: Mangekyou Sharingan is a tool to use the 3 ultimate Jutsu: Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, and Susunoo. Kakashi knows Susunoo, yes? Well Kakashi would NOT use Susonoo against Sasuke for the main reason that it is just too risky for him. The Skill takes time, and Kakashi can not aim it well yet. As soon as Sasuke saw Kakashi's eye change he would get extremely serious. He isn't stupid like Deidara who had no idea what was coming. So Kakashi could not land this jutsu.

In all other ways, beside Susunoo Sasuke's Sharingan is stronger than Kakashi's.
1. Sasuke has it in two eyes
2. It doesn't drain his Chakra nearly as fast as it does to Kakashi (no Uchiha blood syndrome)
3. Mangekyou Sharingan does not improve eyesight, it has never been said to do so.


Next point, is speed/combat ability Kakashi is fast, sure... but Sasuke could keep up while using his shunshin jutsu. And having plenty of training with a Sannin and fighting thousands of ninja at a time Sasuke is sure to know his way around a fight.

Jutsu wise, what does Kakashi use time and time again? Chidori. That is all he uses. Everyone may say that 'Copy Ninja Kakashi who knows 1000 Jutsu could easily have something up his sleeve' that is a stupid statement right there. Because if he HAD something up his sleeve, we wouldn't see him using the same Jutsu over and over. Sasuke, in his minor time spent with Orochimaru was able to even IMPROVE upon Kakashi's bread and butter skill, so don't go telling me Kakashi would wtfpwn Sasuke in a jutsu battle.

With all of the abilities Kishi has given Sasuke, I really don't see Kakashi winning this.

So, let's recap.

Sasuke Sharingan > Kakashi's useless Mangekyou ability
Kakashi Speed >= Sasuke's
Kakashi's Jutsu <= Sasuke's

[atemikage]

kakashi took out 2 hearts of kakuzu its good enough to beat sasuke

[Seff vi Britannia]

I believe Sasuke would be Kakashi. No he wouldn't wtfpwn him, no he wouldn't make Kakashi look silly. But let's face it, he's the 'genius' of the series.

No, Shikamaru is.


First of all, to rebuttal all of the 'Kakashi Sharingan > Sasuke Sharingan' you have to look at it this way: Mangekyou Sharingan is a tool to use the 3 ultimate Jutsu: Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, and Susunoo.

As well as all the effects of the highest form (third) normal sharingan, yes.

Kakashi knows Susunoo, yes? Well Kakashi would NOT use Susonoo against Sasuke for the main reason that it is just too risky for him. The Skill takes time, and Kakashi can not aim it well yet.

True. Which means that Kakashi is left to his normal Sharingan against Sasukes normal sharingan. Kakashi has more experience, and the fact that Kakashi has more chakra than Sasuke (look at the chidori/raikiri limit for proof.) essentially cancels out the fact he has no Uchiha blood.

As soon as Sasuke saw Kakashi's eye change he would get extremely serious.

Sasuke dosen't know enough about the mangekyou to recognise when Susanoo is coming. He didn't see Tsyukyomi coming, did he?

He isn't stupid like Deidara who had no idea what was coming. So Kakashi could not land this jutsu.

Proof.

In all other ways, beside Susunoo Sasuke's Sharingan is stronger than Kakashi's.

1. Sasuke has it in two eyes

This has never been shown to make any difference. Itachi is partially blind in both eyes, remember?

2. It doesn't drain his Chakra nearly as fast as it does to Kakashi (no Uchiha blood syndrome)

I covered this above.

3. Mangekyou Sharingan does not improve eyesight, it has never been said to do so.

Er, i must be missing the point here. So Kakashi has the same eyesight as Sasuke. ...
kk.

Next point, is speed/combat ability Kakashi is fast, sure... but Sasuke could keep up while using his shunshin jutsu.

You said near the bottom of your post that Kakashi speed > Sasuke. Contradiction much?

And having plenty of training with a Sannin and fighting thousands of ninja at a time Sasuke is sure to know his way around a fight.

Lolwow Sanin, Kakashi had Yondaime. =\. Not only that, he has more experience than Sasuke








Sasuke Sharingan > Kakashi's useless Mangekyou ability

Wrong. Sharingan ranking is like this
One "tail"
Two "tail"
Three "tail"
Mangekyou

Kakashi Speed >= Sasuke's

Open to assumption, but i would agree with you, yes.

Kakashi's Jutsu <= Sasuke's

Kakashi knows more than Sasuke. And Kakashi does not "only use chidori" (hell, he dosent even use chidori.). We've seen Katons, Dotons, and Suiton jutst from him. All we've seen from Sasuke is summoning, Katons (nothing that is above A rank) and a raiton (A rank) As well as a "space/time" jutsu we know nothing about.

In fact, Narutos strongest move > Sasukes.

So no, Sasuke does not > Kakashi in jutsu



*sigh*
t3h fanboys are overwhelming! dey are zerging our b4535! o.O

[Tyekanik]

Lots of neat points, but no matter how hard I try to justify Kakashi winning I think this fight would end with Kakashi death. Fighting Sasuke isn't like any other fight, its lets put him in a bad position so he can use something new that we didn't know existed.

Evil student killing ex teacher is right up sasuke's ally. I'd not be surprised if Sasuke were faster than Kakashi now too, they seem to go through lengths to show how fast he is, and the old "you don't have an uchiha body" is against Kakashi. If the little peen isn't faster, he will be soon enough.

MS -- Kakashi apparently didn't kill any best friend, so why would Sasuke need to. He would have some MS manifestation during battle if nothing else broke the laws of reason to allow him a victory.

Seriously, I can't even begin to apply reason to a Sasuke fight anymore.

[5th of April]

Kakashi wins with much difficulty. He'll probably lose a limb or his precious sharingan.

With what basis i say? None really.

Kakashi is older and more experienced, i suppose.

Sasuke is frighteningly powerful. but is driven by his emotions. So EMO! It can get to his head, and he'll have another EMO episode and then Kakashi will definitely beat him because of that.

[XING]

kakashi!

[Draffut]

Lets compare.

The man with the illogically unstoppable bloodline.

Or the man with the illogically unstoppable bloodline, that will make him alittle tired after a while.

[Lelouch]

Exactly ~_~

[Lelouch]

Sangre you keep saying " Prove it " e.t.c like a monkey ffs. How can somebody PROVE sth that is in naruto? its a frigging anime. can you prove for example that jiraiya is stronger than tsunade? no you CANT. because they DIDNT fight. The whole thread is about US stating our opinions. I believe sasuke wins. That doesnt make me a fanboy. Look at my pic , see some of my posts. i m an orochi-fanboy. I definetely HATE sasuke for "killing" orochimaru. In my eyes it seems you are the fanboy. You are trying to make kakashi win with every possible way , just repeating the "Prove it" thing again and again . you got to escape ur fanboy-ness or antisasuke-ness and think clearly. kakashi cant be compared to an uchiha because he has MS. He loses. End
p.s watch some DBZ. you see characters like the bald dude ( krillin or sth ). In the first arcs he was strong but later he became a weakling , ( in some part he became iron human or sth lmao..:D but that took a looooong time ). Kakashi was pawnass. Now he isnt. Its the same thing.
The End. Whatever you say i wont argue anymore. Have fun

EDIT:soz for double posting guys :(

[Seff vi Britannia]

Sangre you keep saying " Prove it " e.t.c like a monkey ffs. How can somebody PROVE sth that is in naruto?

You're telling me Haku was stronger than Kakashi was at age 15. You can prove it then, monkey.

its a frigging anime. can you prove for example that jiraiya is stronger than tsunade? no you CANT. because they DIDNT fight.

Exactly, so don't say stuff you can't proove. :D

The whole thread is about US stating our opinions.

And having your opinions rebuked in debate.

I believe sasuke wins. That doesnt make me a fanboy.

It does when you make up arguments, and go against facts.

Look at my pic , see some of my posts. i m an orochi-fanboy. I definetely HATE sasuke for "killing" orochimaru.

Bully for you.

In my eyes it seems you are the fanboy. You are trying to make kakashi win with every possible way ,

Ur, i believe Kakashi should win, yes. But unlike you, i don't post retarded arguments.

just repeating the "Prove it" thing again and again . you got to escape ur fanboy-ness or antisasuke-ness and think clearly.

I'll stop saying proove it, when you actually proove it. Don't you speak English!?

kakashi cant be compared to an uchiha because he has MS.

When did icompare him to an Uchiha? Or are you just being an Uchiha fanboy now, saying nobody can compare to them?

He loses. End

Proove it.

p.s watch some DBZ. you see characters like the bald dude ( krillin or sth ). In the first arcs he was strong but later he became a weakling , ( in some part he became iron human or sth lmao..:D but that took a looooong time ). Kakashi was pawnass. Now he isnt. Its the same thing.

Naruto =/= DBZ.

The End. Whatever you say i wont argue anymore.

Good, because your arguments are all stupid and baseless.

(

This is a debate, you have to have proof for your arguments. Sheesh.

[Wanderweiss]

I believe Sasuke would be Kakashi. No he wouldn't wtfpwn him, no he wouldn't make Kakashi look silly. But let's face it, he's the 'genius' of the series.

No, Shikamaru is.
WRONG, Shikamaru is the "smart" one, but Sasuke is the 'genius' in the sense that he always grows exponentially, and he is the one Naruto is trying to surpass. Don't misunderstand my meaning here.

First of all, to rebuttal all of the 'Kakashi Sharingan > Sasuke Sharingan' you have to look at it this way: Mangekyou Sharingan is a tool to use the 3 ultimate Jutsu: Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, and Susunoo.

As well as all the effects of the highest form (third) normal sharingan, yes.

Kakashi knows Susunoo, yes? Well Kakashi would NOT use Susonoo against Sasuke for the main reason that it is just too risky for him. The Skill takes time, and Kakashi can not aim it well yet.

True. Which means that Kakashi is left to his normal Sharingan against Sasukes normal sharingan. Kakashi has more experience, and the fact that Kakashi has more chakra than Sasuke (look at the chidori/raikiri limit for proof.) essentially cancels out the fact he has no Uchiha blood.

You're joking right? Sasuke's Chidori limit from 2 and a half years ago was less than Kakashi, and unless I missed it (which I doubt) it has NOT been mentioned since the time skip. Without Uchiha blood Kakashi would be drained MUCH faster than Sasuke would.

As soon as Sasuke saw Kakashi's eye change he would get extremely serious.

Sasuke dosen't know enough about the mangekyou to recognise when Susanoo is coming. He didn't see Tsyukyomi coming, did he?

Difference: Susunoo takes time to connect, Tsukuyomi is instant. I think if Sasuke saw Kakashi focuses all his chakra (remember now, Kishi gave the Sharingan that ability lololol) and stares at Sasuke... Sasuke would, I dunno, MOVE?!

He isn't stupid like Deidara who had no idea what was coming. So Kakashi could not land this jutsu.

Proof.

The proof is in the practice, alright. Deidara stood still and Kakashi STILL missed, so now you think someone moving at the same speed as Kakashi, would get hit? I do not think so.

In all other ways, beside Susunoo Sasuke's Sharingan is stronger than Kakashi's.
1. Sasuke has it in two eyes

This has never been shown to make any difference. Itachi is partially blind in both eyes, remember?

Maybe it doesn't, but I thought it would make a good point.

2. It doesn't drain his Chakra nearly as fast as it does to Kakashi (no Uchiha blood syndrome)

I covered this above.

You covered that Itachi is partially blind? Because Itachi sits with his Sharingan active 24/7, of course his eyesight is going to be shit, because of the strain. It has been shown before, and stated before, that the Sharingan drains Kakashi extremely fast.

3. Mangekyou Sharingan does not improve eyesight, it has never been said to do so.



Er, i must be missing the point here. So Kakashi has the same eyesight as Sasuke. ...
kk.

Same eyesight, less strain, it's only logical that Sasuke is better then, right?
Next point, is speed/combat ability Kakashi is fast, sure... but Sasuke could keep up while using his shunshin jutsu.

You said near the bottom of your post that Kakashi speed > Sasuke. Contradiction much?

Greater than, or equal too. Or do you not recognize that?

And having plenty of training with a Sannin and fighting thousands of ninja at a time Sasuke is sure to know his way around a fight.

Lolwow Sanin, Kakashi had Yondaime. =\. Not only that, he has more experience than Sasuke

lolwow, Kakashi is being taught by Yondaime, yeah the same way Naruto is taught jutsu by Kakashi amirite? Nothing has been shown to prove that Yondaime taught him in the 1on1 way Orochimaru trained Sasuke.

Also, gtfo with your Sasuke fanboi statement, if you've read around these forums you'd know I hate Sasugay (almost as much as I hate people who complain about Sasuke) I'm simply stating facts, if you can't handle that, don't read my reply. kthx

EDIT: Missed this bit

Sasuke Sharingan > Kakashi's useless Mangekyou ability

Wrong. Sharingan ranking is like this
One "tail"
Two "tail"
Three "tail"
Mangekyou

As explained above, Kakashi's ability is useless against Sasuke. Given that Mangekyou doesn't increase eye ability, only giving the ability to use the 3 techniques, and that Sasuke doesn't get drained like Kakashi does when using the Sharingan, it's only logical that Sasuke's sharingan is greater than Kakashi's. Correct?

Kakashi Speed >= Sasuke's

Open to assumption, but i would agree with you, yes.

Glad we agree on something.

Kakashi's Jutsu <= Sasuke's

Kakashi knows more than Sasuke. And Kakashi does not "only use chidori" (hell, he dosent even use chidori.). We've seen Katons, Dotons, and Suiton jutst from him. All we've seen from Sasuke is summoning, Katons (nothing that is above A rank) and a raiton (A rank) As well as a "space/time" jutsu we know nothing about.

In fact, Narutos strongest move > Sasukes.

So no, Sasuke does not > Kakashi in jutsu

In what high-level battle has Kakashi used a jutsu other than Chidori? He has faced 2 Akatsuki members:

1. Deidara where he only used Susanoo (which wouldn't work against Sasuke)
2. Kakuzu where he only used Chidori over and over again, to defend and attack all the same.

[Mercurius]

I'd currently say sasuke with difficulty. WHY?

Cause he also defeated Deidara. and Deidara was no doubt stronger than Kakashi.

And Sasuke was on equal grounds in the very short notice we saw him against Yamato. even if Yamato was trying to protect Naruto and Sakura. he was facing trouble with Sasuke's Chidori Nagashi.

Also I think that Yamato and Kakshi will be about equal. lastly...Kakashi did defeat deidara just barely with MS...however Deidare didn't use his mouth clay and Naruto was helpin Kakashi with it


...EDIT:///and did U see the ple of bodies Sasuke defeated with O_o when he was still with Orochimaru

[KholdStare]

I'd currently say sasuke with difficulty. WHY?
Cause he also defeated Deidara. and Deidara was no doubt stronger than Kakashi.


And how do you know that? There is no proof to say that Deidara was "no doubt" stronger than Kakashi.

[Mercurius]

Because Kakashi isn't able to defeat a kage...even if that kage is a 16 year old.


tough...on the other hand I also think that Sasuke isn't able to defeat Gaara

[Tyekanik]

Being able to beat someone on account of beating another guy doesn't exist, the abilities are all very different and work against each other on a situational basis. Deidara's attacks may be more effective than Kakashi's against Gaara, but against someone else it could easily go the other way.

Also, we've already seen that Deidara can handle the sharingan about as well as they can logically explain the damn thing.

[KholdStare]

Because Kakashi isn't able to defeat a kage...even if that kage is a 16 year old.
tough...on the other hand I also think that Sasuke isn't able to defeat Gaara

Once again, I don't understand how you can assume that as well. Just because you get the status of Kage does not make you invincible. Sasori killed the third Kazekage so that just proves that people who are not Kages can in fact killed Kages.

And as the person above me has said, you CANNOT determine all manga fights by simple equations.

A may be > B
And B > C
But that does not make A > C because C may possess a strength which is the weakness of A.

The only example that comes to mind is pokemon
Charizard > Venasaur
Venasaur > Blastoise
But that does not make Charizard > Blastoise because of the elemental advantage which Blastoise has.

Similarly, Deidara > Gaara
And even IF Gaara > Kakashi (which I don't think is true)
Then you cannot state that Deidara > Kakashi.

[Noitora]

Because Kakashi isn't able to defeat a kage...even if that kage is a 16 year old.
tough...on the other hand I also think that Sasuke isn't able to defeat Gaara

Kakashi can't defeat Gaara doesn't mean he can't defeat Deidara. And Kakashi might be able to beat Gaara also. With his 1000- jutsu. lol.

[Mercurius]

So then, tell me who do YOU think will win (and I said that Sasuke will win...and I remain at that choice...+ I AM NOT A SASUKE FAN, nor do I hate him, I only think Kishi overpowered him too much since he made his reapperance....)

-I base my choices on Sasuke's overdeveloped/powered Sharingan
-Him Defeating Orochimaru (even if he was very weakened) 'N Deidara
-And having the cursed seal

[Bankai_Zangetsu]

ehh i dont really consider deidaras win over gaara as a real win .. i mean he only won because gaara was too busy savin the city . i guess you could argue that to be shinobi tactics but .. thats still cheap as hell

[The_Irving]

^^^Yeah that was a pretty lame way to win.

Oh, and you can't compare two characters by who they beat or didn't beat. Take Gaara for example. In part one of Naruto, they kept talking about how unstoppable he was, and how Jounins and Chuunins were sent to assassinate him, but they were all killed. Then, he was forced to use Shukaku against Sasuke. After that, Shukaku was defeated by Naruto (and Gamabunta). Those two Genin, who shouldn't have been able to even touch a Jounin, surpassed Gaara, the "almighty". Yet after that, they still get thrown around by Kakashi.

Now, back to topic, I believe they're (Kakashi and Sasuke) both about even, as of now. Kakashi has many more techniques that Sasuke, but Sasuke has mastered the Chidori, being able to wrap it around him and his attacks. Kakashi also has the MS that opens that badass portal. So, I'll just call it a tie for now.

[Mikado]

Susuke wins, because kishi wants that.. has Sasuke even lost a single battle until now? No matter what will happen, I doubt Kishi will let Sasuke die..

[Bankai_Zangetsu]

yea sasuke lost alot of battles lol more than the other naruto characters. he lost against itachi ( cant realyl count that i guess) he definitely lost against gaara. in certain ways he lost to naruto a few times and he got whooped by lee

[zen]

You can't go by that bankai dude, that was ion's ago. And we can clearly see that he can destroy lee now and gaara with ease. I know people say don't do by who such and such beat, but who else beat and killed orochimaru And he was way to much for gaara even back then. So I think sasuke would beat kakashi.

[FullMetal Rebel]

Sasuke would win,since he is a super saiyan.

He has just gotten to damn over-powered in his own lilttle "arc" he got.

[KholdStare]

You can't go by that bankai dude, that was ion's ago. And we can clearly see that he can destroy lee now and gaara with ease. I know people say don't do by who such and such beat, but who else beat and killed orochimaru And he was way to much for gaara even back then. So I think sasuke would beat kakashi.

I don't understand why people keep referring to killing Orochimaru as a big feat. Orochimaru was not able to use any jutsu and let us remember that Orochimaru was powerful due to all the different jutsu he possessed. Sasuke, HIMSELF, stated that defeating Orochimaru was not a big deal since he was already very weak.

Secondly, you cannot compare Gaara's strength with Kakashi's. During the Chuunin exam Gaara was nowhere near Kakashi. When Gai, who is approximately the same as Kakashi, stepped in to save Lee, he swatted Gaara's sand away like it was nothing. Gaara was a nothing compared to Kakashi back then so Sasuke's win over him proves nothing.

[Vaizard]

This is manga so , I shall recall ( please dont consider this spoiler >< ) : Raikari Flash , Chidori Nagashi , vs , Raikari , Kuchiyose no Jutsu , some other million weak/medium attacks , who would win? DRAW I mean , they're evenly matched mostly according to most people that I know , Sasuke is a mid-level jounin in Konoha , so the only ones that could match his strength : Gai and Kakashi , this is a Kakashi vs Sasuke , so its a draw...
@Akiha3 , he lost to Haku -_-

[ninjabot]

Just making sure everyone is aware WHY Orochimaru couldn't use any jutsu. It wasn't because he was sick, it was because both his arms were rendered useless by Chidori-Sword. He was crippled by Sasuke. Rendered an invalid by Sasuke. He was beaten. By Sasuke. It's not that hard to believe, I mean...this IS Sasuke we're talking about.

Sasuke beats Kakashi due to the reasons stated in the Sasuke, 6-tailed Naruto, Jiraiya, and Kakashi fight (another fight Sasuke wins btw.)

Sasuke vs. Kakashi. I used to think Kakashi's wealth of jutsu were enough to win this fight, but I'm not so sure anymore. An actual challenge, though if the latest Naruto chapter is any indication, Sasuke is infact faster than Kakashi (I say Itachi's faster than Kakashi. Agreed?) Sasuke's able to take Itachi by surprise without hiding, using Genjutsu or upgrading to CS2, and that's a feat considering Itachi has a stronger Sharingan than Kakashi. Forget charging up that Susano-o aswell.

[KholdStare]

Just making sure everyone is aware WHY Orochimaru couldn't use any jutsu. It wasn't because he was sick, it was because both his arms were rendered useless by Chidori-Sword. He was crippled by Sasuke. Rendered an invalid by Sasuke. He was beaten. By Sasuke. It's not that hard to believe, I mean...this IS Sasuke we're talking about.
Sasuke beats Kakashi due to the reasons stated in the Sasuke, 6-tailed Naruto, Jiraiya, and Kakashi fight (another fight Sasuke wins btw.)
Sasuke vs. Kakashi. I used to think Kakashi's wealth of jutsu were enough to win this fight, but I'm not so sure anymore. An actual challenge, though if the latest Naruto chapter is any indication, Sasuke is infact faster than Kakashi (I say Itachi's faster than Kakashi. Agreed?) Sasuke's able to take Itachi by surprise without hiding, using Genjutsu or upgrading to CS2, and that's a feat considering Itachi has a stronger Sharingan than Kakashi. Forget charging up that Susano-o aswell.


No.. the reason Orochimaru could not use any jutsu is because his hands were sealed by Sarutobi in the shinigami. Quote from Wiki because I am lazy to actually look this up in the manga
"Doing what little he can and hoping to rectify his mistake of allowing Orochimaru to escape years earlier, the Third seals Orochimaru's arms to ensure that he will never again be able to use jutsu, a punishment for Orochimaru's obsession with power. With the village saved from Orochimaru, the Third dies with a smile on his face, death being the result of performing the sealing."

[ninjabot]

I had to check to make sure, but I was right. Orochimaru used jutsu against 4-tail Naruto, aswell as used his arms. Sandaime could only prevent Orochimaru from using jutsu until he got a new body. Once he gained a new host he was able to use his arms again, and with new arms comes the ability to perform handseals.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/290/11/

This one could be argued that it's just his mutated body making snakes, but last time I checked it was considered a jutsu (because Anko does it too). He couldn't do that if his arms were still sealed.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/295/07/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/295/08-09/

During the fight with Jiraiya and Tsunade he had to let Kabuto do his summoning for him, but we see here that he clearly CAN do it. More evidence that he was not jutsuless during that fight. Unless someone can show me where Orochimaru says "I can't do jutsus right now because my chakra is low due to sickness" or something, I stand by my reasoning.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Well, Kakashi has been labled as the next hokage, so....

[ninjabot]

Yeah, but that's mainly a "Next Best Thing" scenario. When the real candidates (Sannin) die or say no, you go to the Jounin. Kakashi is a great ninja, so ofcourse they'd consider him after the Sannin. But that doesn't make him winner of this fight based on that alone.

Garra's already a Kage. Does that mean he can beat Sasuke?

[Seff vi Britannia]

Garra's already a Kage. Does that mean he can beat Sasuke?

Touche, good point.

[KholdStare]

I had to check to make sure, but I was right. Orochimaru used jutsu against 4-tail Naruto, aswell as used his arms. Sandaime could only prevent Orochimaru from using jutsu until he got a new body. Once he gained a new host he was able to use his arms again, and with new arms comes the ability to perform handseals.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/290/11/
This one could be argued that it's just his mutated body making snakes, but last time I checked it was considered a jutsu (because Anko does it too). He couldn't do that if his arms were still sealed.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/295/07/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/295/08-09/
During the fight with Jiraiya and Tsunade he had to let Kabuto do his summoning for him, but we see here that he clearly CAN do it. More evidence that he was not jutsuless during that fight. Unless someone can show me where Orochimaru says "I can't do jutsus right now because my chakra is low due to sickness" or something, I stand by my reasoning.
If your point is that Orochimaru cannot use jutsu until he gets a new body, then the point still stands that Sasuke was fighting an Orochimaru who could not perform seals. He was in the same body in which he was fighting Sarutobi because Orochimaru could not change bodies for another 3 years. And he did not want to waste time by going into another body so he was waiting for Sasuke's body.
He could not summon the manda and here is the explanation why, in the words of Kabuto
http://manga.bleachexile.com/naruto/170/Naruto%20c170%20p05.jpg

[ninjabot]

That's what I'm saying: he DID have another body during the fight with Sasuke. During the Sasuke retrieval arc, Orochimaru waited as long as he could for Sasuke inorder to take his body. Sasuke was'nt able to get their in time however, so Orochimaru was forced to take a body made available to him by Kabuto

Taken from Wiki:Finally deciding to make use of Sasuke, Orochimaru sends his Sound Four to fetch him, planning to take Sasuke's body upon his arrival. Although he waits for as long as he can, the pain in his arms forces him to transfer to a body that Kabuto prepared for him. Stuck in this body for the next three years, Orochimaru begins training Sasuke upon his eventual arrival, shaping him into the ideal body all the while.

As for your link to the Sannin fight, you're aware that was BEFORE the Sasuke retrieval arc, meaning before Orochimaru used Kabuto's prepared hostbody? Of course he can't summon there, but that's because he's still using his sealed arm body. He summoned against 4-tail Naruto because he had the hands to do so.

If that's not enough proof, ask yourself this: how does a ninja teach another ninja ninjutsu, if they can't perform handseals? Even with Sharingan, Sasuke wouldn't be able to learn anything from an armless Orochimaru.

[Lelouch]

If your point is that Orochimaru cannot use jutsu until he gets a new body, then the point still stands that Sasuke was fighting an Orochimaru who could not perform seals. He was in the same body in which he was fighting Sarutobi because Orochimaru could not change bodies for another 3 years. And he did not want to waste time by going into another body so he was waiting for Sasuke's body.
He could not summon the manda and here is the explanation why, in the words of Kabuto
http://manga.bleachexile.com/naruto/170/Naruto%20c170%20p05.jpg

He changed body before sasuke was brought to him... He was in pain e.t.c and couldnt resist . So your theory fails :(

[Draffut]

Sasuke's able to take Itachi by surprise without hiding, using Genjutsu or upgrading to CS2, and that's a feat considering Itachi has a stronger Sharingan than Kakashi. Forget charging up that Susano-o aswell.

Where the heck did this happen?

[ninjabot]

When Sasuke dispatched Itachi's Genjutsu a few chapters back.

[Draffut]

When Sasuke dispatched Itachi's Genjutsu a few chapters back.

Lol, he never took Itachi by suprise in there. and level of your sharingan doesn't effect your ability to see people hiding and sneaking around. Unless it can not see 360 degrees and through objects like the Byakugan.

[ninjabot]

I'm aware of that, but Sharingan does allow one to see faster moving targets at a slower pace by letting them see where the opponent will move seconds before they move. Sasuke couldn't stop semi-kyuubi chakra Naruto until his Sharingan went up to the next level. When the panel closes in on Itachi's eye trying to keep up with Sasuke it makes you wonder why his increased insight didn't see where Sasuke was going to begin with, as that is an ability of the Sharingan.

This is also the first time we've seen a clone or Genjutsu image of Itachi to show any sign of concern mid-battle, testament to Sasuke's speed.

[Draffut]

I'm aware of that, but Sharingan does allow one to see faster moving targets at a slower pace by letting them see where the opponent will move seconds before they move. Sasuke couldn't stop semi-kyuubi chakra Naruto until his Sharingan went up to the next level. When the panel closes in on Itachi's eye trying to keep up with Sasuke it makes you wonder why his increased insight didn't see where Sasuke was going to begin with, as that is an ability of the Sharingan.

This is also the first time we've seen a clone or Genjutsu image of Itachi to show any sign of concern mid-battle, testament to Sasuke's speed.

Lol, a genjutsu image suprised of his speed. Of course, he's not going to let sasuke know he is easily following him, so he makes his jutsu watch him slowly. You never lay all your cards on the table. escpeially if you outclass the opponent by so much, an are in no actual trouble.

[Jay3205]

^^Actually, Itachi's personality is pretty much the opposite of that. He wants Sasuke to know that he is significantly stronger, so it wouldn't make sense to all of a sudden start hiding his strength. If Itachi really did outclass him by so much, then revealing that his Sharingan can keep up easily with Sasuke's movements is hardly putting all the cards on the table.

[Draffut]

^^Actually, Itachi's personality is pretty much the opposite of that. He wants Sasuke to know that he is significantly stronger, so it wouldn't make sense to all of a sudden start hiding his strength. If Itachi really did outclass him by so much, then revealing that his Sharingan can keep up easily with Sasuke's movements is hardly putting all the cards on the table.

He wants something more of Sasuke then Sasuke to get stronger then he is. Otherwise he would have fought Sasuke in the cave. There must be a significant reason he needs Sasuke to go to the Uchiha hideout. I am pretty sure he is hiding his cards as to why right now. just like he is masking his true power. (If Amaterasu and Tsuyuyomi are his most powerful jutsu's, that would make a dissapointing fight.)

[Jay3205]

^^ My point wasn't that he isn't hiding anything. I was trying to point out that Itachi isn't the type to one minute start faking that he is surprised at his strength, then bust out the next minute with "I was just faking it, I can still own you". Least of all, it's hardly revealing his true power by letting Sasuke know that his Sharingan can track movement... like it's supposed to do.

[ninjabot]

Exactly. I'm not implying that Sasuke can "own" Itachi yet. Just that Itachi can't "own" him anymore. The deciding factor in Itachi's fights whether we want to believe it or not is the Mangekyou. Now that we know the fight will come down to actual skill rather than Sharingan mastery, we've got an honest-to-goodness straight up fight. Unless there's one "that jutsu" that Itachi has with the Sharingan (which he most likely has).

[Draffut]

Exactly. I'm not implying that Sasuke can "own" Itachi yet. Just that Itachi can't "own" him anymore. The deciding factor in Itachi's fights whether we want to believe it or not is the Mangekyou. Now that we know the fight will come down to actual skill rather than Sharingan mastery, we've got an honest-to-goodness straight up fight. Unless there's one "that jutsu" that Itachi has with the Sharingan (which he most likely has).

How is MS his deciding factor? The only time he has used it in a fight was to flee from Jiraiya. He owned Orochimaru without it, where Sasuke had a logn extended battle, which he only won becuase Orochimaru attempted the body-transfer. He owned Deidara without it, where Sasuke has to go to his limits, and then some. he fought at 30% agianst Kakashi and Naruto without it.

How is that depending on the MS?

[ninjabot]

Correction. Not techniques gained from MS, but the fact that it's the strongest form of Sharingan. A more sensible statement from me would've been "The deciding factor in Itachi's fights whether we want to believe it or not is his Sharingan." Meaning he depends on his Sharingan the same as Sasuke.

Meaning now that he's fighting someone that won't be slowed by Itachi's usual strategies, we have a fight.

[Aina1]

Kakashi :D

[Sesshomaru]

Sasuke defeat Orochimaru very easily, yes Orochimaru was in bad condition at the time, but neither Sasuke brake a sweat and there no way that Kakashi could defeat Orochimaru... so Sasuke win...

[Key]

I think Sasuke would Wtfbbqsaucekishimotogaysexowns Kakashi.

[D3v]

There is one thing most of you are forgetting. Back during the chunnin exams arc, Kabuto was said to be equal/more than equal in power to kakashi (even Orochimaru said the same thing). We all can agree that Kabuto doesn't stand a chance against the post time-skip Sasuke.

Now the only thing Kakashi has gained after that is the MS, and its a pretty bad ass thing to have. But, considering he is up against a Uchiha, thats pretty much THE worst move he can make since he can not afford trying and missing Mangekyu sharingan during a fight as that will totally end it for him, and missing it is almost certain if he is against an Uchiha, who furthermore more than matches him in speed.

[Chi]

At this stage in the game its a tad bit difficult to tell. Sasuke has come along ways and we are still unsure about the status of the limits of his abilities. While Kakashi has already displayed great Mangekyou Sharingan abilities in which he even saw and recognized Amaterasu and has already experienced and possibly developed Tsukiyoumi on his own based on his interaction with Itachi. And has displayed one more technique that we didn't even get to see Itachi use himself at least not that I can recall, the teleportation jutsu. So at this moment i'd have to say Kakashi would win because he just seems to have a greater variety of weaponry to use. Though am a bit concerned about his stamina and his ability to sustain such powerful jutsu's for long periods. For now i'll say Kakashi but i may change my mind later

[captainmawaluigi]

Its hard to tell, I think the faster the fight the more advantage for kakashi. Sasuke is still developing the Sharingan and is a blooduser, while Kakashi aint. So the longer it does on, the less chance Kakashi has of winning. I could see Kakashi making jutsu that Sasuke has yet to see, just to hide his hand seals, and throwing out some attack(wind or even hurricane rasengan stolen from naruto?) that would penetrate Sasukes fire or electric type attaks.