Komamura&Soi Fong vs. Mayuri&Byakuya [Archive]

Nowitzki

07-01-2007, 01:54 AM

Senbon Zakura could attack and hold off both Soi Fon and Komamaru while Mayuri would go in and sever their nerves causing them to halt movement. Then they'd just be sitting ducks. I think in a 1v1 situation, either Komamaru and Soi Fon would win against Byakuya and Mayuri, but in a 2v2, Byakuya's ability of mass attack and Mayuri's ability of poision and paralysis (in a way) would definately overcome Soi Fon's speed and two hit-decisive kill, and Komamaru's strength.

This battle, in my opinion, goes to Byakuya and Mayuri for being a more diverse group in terms of attack. Both Soi Fon and Komamaru are melee, while Byakuya is ranged offense and defense, and Mayuri has special tricks that can easily turn the tide of battle.

The_Irving

07-01-2007, 02:39 AM

Byakuya and Mayuri, hands down.

Both are mid-level captains, while Soi Fon is mid-level, and Komamura comes off as lower-tier. He's just way to reliant on strength. Byakuya has got Soi Fon nailed on speed, and his shikai/bankai have a range of anywhere, while her shikai is only close-range (although her bankai still has yet to be revealed). Komamura would get run down by Mayuri's bankai. Of course, he'd probably be poisoned first. So, yea...

h3h3h3

07-01-2007, 07:32 AM

^Actually I picked them because all of em' are mid-tier Captain's and all are capable of hurting each other. Komamura being a low-tier Captain isn't an argument because it's not a fact, you are just assuming he is low-tier because he got owned by Aizen's awesomeness.

Nowitzki

07-01-2007, 08:12 AM

I would think Komamaru is upper middle tier because of his age. He's been a captain longer than Byakuya.

Seff vi Britannia

07-01-2007, 08:30 AM

Right, well currentely i'd say Soi Fon alone takes this. WITHOUT bankai.

Both Soi Fon and Mayuri has ubercheap attacks, nobody denies that. However, Mayuri's poison IS NOT an insta'death attack, it takes time. What's more? SoiFon has shunko.

Even in the event that SoiFon gets poisoned, we know she is much faster than Byakuya and Mayuri, so could very easily get two hits in on the latter. I doubt Mayuri can regenerate being dead. He could awlays walk away from the battle with his slime thing, but then it's well and truly Konamura and SoiFon versus Byakuya. Senbonsakura IS a good defence, however... between Soi Fon's shikai and Konamura's bankai, we have a very strong peircing attack backed up by flash cry, and a titanic crushing attack. There's only so much senbonsakura can block. (Byakuya himself says: No matter how good the defence, ect...)

And we haven't even seen Soi Fon's bankai. We've seen the very limit of Byakuya's abilities and we've seen Mayuri's bankai.

Konamura and Soi Fon MIGHT die from Mayuri's bankai, assuming Soi Fon is unable to negate it with flash cry. But then Mayuri will be the only one left, four days later =\.

Hard to say who wins on a technical basis, but Soi Fon and Konamura.

Now; The rebukes.

Byakuya and Mayuri, hands down.

Both are mid-level captains, while Soi Fon is mid-level, and Komamura comes off as lower-tier.

Proove it.

He's just way to reliant on strength.

He's strong enough to break through senbonsakura with his bankai, i would propose.

Byakuya has got Soi Fon nailed on speed

Soi Fon can keep up to an unhindered Yourouchi (sp). Byakuya got outpaced by Catgirl when she was carrying Ichigo AND Zangetsu. Don't bullshit, thanks.

, and his shikai/bankai have a range of anywhere, while her shikai is only close-range

Her speed + Flash cry makes this irrelevant.

(although her bankai still has yet to be revealed). Komamura would get run down by Mayuri's bankai. Of course, he'd probably be poisoned first. So, yea...

True, but even if Mayuri and Soi Fon get poisoned, they could still destroy Byakuya and force Mayuri to liquify himself.

Byakuya and Mayuri will win. Mayuri's bankai will poison Soi Fong and Komamura,

Flash cry.

and Byakuya's Senbonzakura will act as a shield so that Soi Fong and Komamura can't get close.

Soi Fon would get round it with speed, much like Ichigo did. Konamura simply breaks through it.

The poison will kill the enemies.

Konamura: Yes. Soi Fon, unless she forgets to use shunko: No.

Also, it's pefectely reasonable to assume that Soi Fon can simply stab Mayuri before he even releases bankai.

The only way Soi FongxKomamura team can win is if Soi Fong has an uber cheap bankai, even cheaper than Mayuri's.

Oh, i haven't even considered her bankai.

I'm not really too sure about this one, both teams are strong but in the end I think Byakuya and Mayuri would win, mainly because Mayuri can regenerate himself with that weird stuff

Suzemebachi dosen't cut off limbs. The fillers arcs show it to be a poison attack, but obviously this isn't cannon. I doubt Mayuri can regenerate from it.

and Byakuya, well...enough said really isn't it?

All that got said here was that you are a fanboy.

Momentum

07-01-2007, 11:16 AM

^^ I agree with Darkseff and also poison is useless against Soi Fong because once shes sucked in Mayuri's poison, she'll just use her Suzumebachi to get it out as seen in one of the filler episodes. >.>

I'm going to have to say Soi Fong and Komamura.

h3h3h3

07-01-2007, 11:50 AM

I would think Komamaru is upper middle tier because of his age. He's been a captain longer than Byakuya.
Yea practically in Bleach experience=power. But even tho Soi Fong and Komamura breaks Byakuya, Mayuri is there poisoning them and eventually Soi Fong and Komamura will die.

And even if Soi Fong uses Suzumebachi on Mayuri, Mayuri as a Genius/Scientist considers this scenario he will find an antidote that's why he is Leader of Bureau of Technology.(or smth)

Conclusion: Byakuya, Soi Fong and Komamura dies. Mayuri comes back after 4days= Mayuri&Byakuya wins.

Momentum

07-01-2007, 12:26 PM

By the way won't Mayuri kill Komamura and Byakuya if he goes on bankai? If thats the case then Soi Fong will surely own Mayuri. Like I said she could get the poison out of her and she'll be fast enough to land two hits on Mayuri killing him.

Seff vi Britannia

07-01-2007, 01:02 PM

Shadow sentinel raises a VERY interesting point. If Mayuri were to use his bankai, he would poison Byakuya as well.

h3h3h3

07-01-2007, 02:57 PM

Well, I guess Byakuya stays little back ;), if it's a setup match Byakuya knows that he has to keep distance or Mayuri gives him a pre-antidote.

Klavier Gavin

07-01-2007, 03:44 PM

I can't state who would win just yet, but just to list some points.

Soi Fong can counter poison using Suzumebachi but she won't have the time to with Byakuya around, and Mayuri's poison wouldn't be affecting Soi Fong around. Komamura and Byakuya would get affected as well unless they are pretty far away. Komamura has a fascinating attack strength, but I'm sure Byakuya could dodge/block his attacks pretty easily. We don't know if Komamura can take damage like Zaraki Kenpachi, but he seems pretty buffed so he might be a pretty good meat shield as well.

Mayuri haven't really shown us much except for his cheap Bankai and recovery techniques. As mentioned before, he could use his Bankai but that would definitely affect more than his enemies alone. Byakuya, has the upper hand in this battle. He has unpredictable and fast attacks, which is a pain in the ass to Komamura who seems pretty slow. He would make it hard for the opponents to guess his next move, not to mention that he's pretty good in kidou as well.

However, the turning point is how well both sides can work as a team. Komamura and Soi Fong would be able to work better in my opinion compared to Byakuya and Mayuri. Byakuya is a selfish individual who wouldn't allow someone to interfere in his battle whereas Mayuri, would sacrifice his own allies to achieve something. This would be a really hard battle to predict the outcome so I'll just give what I think of the battle.

h3h3h3

07-01-2007, 04:06 PM

I forgot Soi Fong isn't affected by poison................... In this case it's highly likely Soi Fong&Komamura wins.

sweeter

07-01-2007, 04:14 PM

Soi Fong and Komamura.

Byakuya can't own Mayuri without being poisoned himself. I'm betting Soi Fong can do otherwise. Suzumebachi is a two-hit sure-kill. Unless Mayuri is on-par-with-Yoruichi-fast or has on-par-with-Byakuya-kidou, she can take him out before he releases Bankai.

Now. Byakuya.

Byakuya can use binding kidou on Soi Fong and proceed to chop her head off. However. Komamura will interfere. Byakuya can kill him. But not in the short duration it would take for Soi Fong to break out from kidou. Since Komamura is a Captain (not easily killed by a fellow Captain -- Byakuya) and Soi Fong is a Captain (not easily subdued by a fellow Captain -- Byakuya).

3 against Byakuya. One with two-hit sure-kill + high-tier shunpo, another with close-combat skills, and finally, a giant warrior Bankai. Byakuya is defeated.

Just to play the devil's advocate.

(:

Guy

07-01-2007, 07:12 PM

If Mayuri gives antidote to Byakuya... then Byakuya wouldn't be affected by the poison. Assuming that they are willing to work as a team, I don't see why Mayuri wouldn't do that. At any rate, I'm not sure how Komamura can survive this. Komamura will get poisoned, paralyzed, and shred apart from Mayuri and Byakuya.

Now, it's only two against Soi Fong. If Byakuya surrounds himself with Kageyoshi, Soi Fong can't get close to him. Mayuri's poison will finish Soi Fong off. Now, I see arguements that Soi Fong can cure any poison. Well, if it's stated in the manga, please show it to me, because the only time I ever recall her saying so was in fillers, and fillers=pure nonsense.

Shezmu

07-01-2007, 08:14 PM

Guy

07-01-2007, 08:28 PM

Komamura is so underestimated.. why does everyone think he's weak..
Probably because he doesn't really have a fanbase, unlike byakuya..
I think Komamura is one of the strongest captains, and where does it say he's slow? please show me or do yall just assume that because he is big? we don't really know much about his abilities
I think everyone says byakuyaxmayuri will wins because byakuya is considerd t3h uBer 1337 0wnzor or something by lots of ppl. in almost all ''Byakuya vs [insert name]'' fights every one says he'll win.. =(

Well, unfortunately, I just don't see how Komamura can be one of the strongest captains. I mean, show me your proof as to why Komamura is one of the strongest. I believe Zaraki even taunted Komamura as being too weak of a captain.

OK, but all that aside, Komamura is screwed because Mayuri's poison will kill him.

By the way I have nothing against him.

Uh-huh, sure...

Since Soi Fon's bankai is even better than her shikai I'm convinced she and komamura win this one.

Yes, this is the only way Team SoiKoma can win, that is if Soi Fong has an uber cheap bankai. Either that, or it has to be manga-stated that Suzumebachi can cure any poison. I'm just judging from what I've seen, and I'm just saying team ByakuMayu has an advantage.

Momentum

07-01-2007, 10:59 PM

Even though Soi Fong used her shikai to get the poison out in the fillers, she should be able to use it in the actual series.

shinigami-butterfly

07-01-2007, 11:31 PM

umm... this is a tough one, we can't really decide on who's the winner since we've seen very little of Soi Fon and Komamura's battle skills. Komamura's bankai looked pretty awkward so both Mayuri and Byakuya could have dodged it easily, but Soi Fon is definitely faster than Byakuya and Mayuri, Byakuya can block off her attacks with kageyoshi and Mayuri will poison her, but we don't know if her bankai is something that can draw poison out or something. so until Soi Fon's bankai is revealed we can't say much about the winner of this battle

Guy

07-02-2007, 02:37 AM

Even though Soi Fong used her shikai to get the poison out in the fillers, she should be able to use it in the actual series.

What makes you say that? Until someone points it out to me that this was stated in the manga, I don't believe it. Fillers have no credibility. According to the bounto arc, Hitsugaya is a better fighter than Ogichi (referring to their battles against Koga).

@shinigami-butterfly: Yes, I agree. Until we know Soi Fong's bankai, this battle is kind of too hard to tell the outcome. Soi Fong's bankai could be uber cheap... or it may not be so strong. I am, however, convinced that Soi Fong isn't the strongest shinigami (she got owned by Yoruichi who didn't even use a zanpakutou...)

Klavier Gavin

07-02-2007, 05:20 AM

I forgot that Soi Fong only used Suzumebachi to counter poison in the fillers. If she was able to do that, they might be at an advantage.

I mentioned about the personality of Byakuya and Mayuri before. Mayuri is a selfish leader who would sacrifice his own allies for his own gain and Byakuya is the type that would not think twice about striking his ally down if he's in the way. For all we know, this could turn into a Byakuya vs Mayuri battle.

FullMetal Rebel

07-02-2007, 06:51 AM

My vote goes to team Mayuri and Byakuya.Byakuya has speed.Mayuri has tactics and his poison.Until I see Soi Fong use Suzumebachi in the manga or anime to get rid of poison.I won't see it as valid.After all Fillers claimed those buffalo to be arrancars.

Seff vi Britannia

07-02-2007, 06:57 AM

Well, unfortunately, I just don't see how Komamura can be one of the strongest captains. I mean, show me your proof as to why Komamura is one of the strongest. I believe Zaraki even taunted Komamura as being too weak of a captain.

Show me the proof that Byakuya is one of the strongest captains that dosen't include your fanboyism.

If Mayuri releases bankai then Byakuya is dead as well. But with Soi Fon's speed and shikai she could easily kill him before this happens, and in the event he does release poison, she can nullfiy it with flash cry.

That makes it Konamura and Soi Fon versus Byakuya. SKY might be able to stop an attack from Tensa Zangetsu, but i highly doubt it can stop a 25-whatever ton giant samurai warrior.

=\

My vote goes to team Mayuri and Byakuya.Byakuya has speed.

Soi Fon is faster than Byakuya, lole.

Mayuri has tactics and his poison.Until I see Soi Fong use Suzumebachi in the manga or anime to get rid of poison.I won't see it as valid.After all Fillers claimed those buffalo to be arrancars.

Until h3h3h3 writes on the first post that we cant use fillers as evidence, it's valid.

Momentum

07-02-2007, 10:38 AM

According to the bounto arc, Hitsugaya is a better fighter than Ogichi (referring to their battles against Koga).

Only reason why Koga lost against Hitsugaya because he went easy on him. Remember what Hits said? Bleh can't really remember what he fully said but he said something like "he wasn't fighting his hardest." But then again the main characters most likely win against filler characters. xD

Dreams

07-02-2007, 10:53 AM

FullMetal Rebel

07-02-2007, 11:02 AM

Soi Fon is faster than Byakuya, lole.

Where in my post did I say she wasn't?Soi fong kept up with Yoruichi where Byakuya couldn't.Still he has speed and a bankai that can be used for both offense or defense.

Until h3h3h3 writes on the first post that we cant use fillers as evidence, it's valid.

If h3h3h3 say so then it is valid.I'll never take fillers as valid in my mind though.Naruto fillers claimed those dumb idiot brothers to be on Sannin level which is total bull.As everybody knows Oro and Jiraya would hand them their ass.Shows the animators knowledge.

If Mayuri can hit his shikai on Soi Fong it could really put her on a handicap for most of the fight.Soi Fong is a hand to hand fighter afterall.Soi Fong may not be able to get rid of Mayuri's special posion though.

h3h3h3

07-02-2007, 11:50 AM

Well I knew that Soi Fong can't cure poison that's why I was confused I didn't watch many filler eps, usually fillers are just fillers nothing related to manga. Well I guess Mayuri&Byakuya wins not including Soi Fong's bankai and fillers.

My conclusion is that Soi Fong and Komamura dies if they get too close to Mayuri, and Mayuri can give Byakuya pre-Antidote to his poison. And it's highly likely that Mayuri is immune to all kinds of poison or atleast has an antidote to them but suzumebachi is said to kill instantly which is not proved but highly likely.

Mayuri may die from Suzumebachi but so will Soi Fong die from Mayuri's poison. Soi Fong is fast enough to strike twice at Byakuya while Komamura taking attention off Byakuya. But when they finish Byakuya they will get close Mayuri and they will be dead eventually and so will Mayuri die from Suzumebachi.

MayuBya >= SoiKoma

Little repeative post but I am tired :).

Momentum

07-02-2007, 12:48 PM

you have to remember, Ichigo owned Zaraki, and Zaraki owned komamura easily. Ichigo couldn't win of Byakuya if he didn't unleashed his inner hollow. And he used Bankai. Ichigo didn't even show his Bankai vs zaraki. That means, if Ichigo had shown his bankai vs zaraki he would own zaraki easily. And komamura couldn't even scratch zaraki. So you get picture?

Are you serious? I've never seen Zaraki and Komamura actually fight.

Soi Fong may not be able to get rid of Mayuri's special posion though.

Like she said, if she encounters a new kind of poison she can find a way to immunize herself from it.

Well then. If Soi Fong is not immune to poison, then its settled. But know this, Mayuri's poison is not instant death which means Soi Fong still has time to act. Theres also a good chance of Soi Fong being faster than Mayuri, maybe Byakuya. I haven't actually seen Komamura in a serious, long fight so I don't know what to say about him.

Seff vi Britannia

07-02-2007, 03:02 PM

Byakuya will kill them all with senbonzakura :)

you have to remember, Ichigo owned Zaraki, and Zaraki owned komamura easily. Ichigo couldn't win of Byakuya if he didn't unleashed his inner hollow. And he used Bankai. Ichigo didn't even show his Bankai vs zaraki. That means, if Ichigo had shown his bankai vs zaraki he would own zaraki easily. And komamura couldn't even scratch zaraki. So you get picture?

Ichigo owns Zaraki > Koamura couldn't even scratch Zaraki > Ichigo with bankai had a very had time with Byakuya, so he had to release his inner hollow to win him. That means, Byakuya can easily defeat zaraki. No doubt.

So, this battle goes defently for Mayuri and byakuya.

Oh, nice one, you didn't talk about Soi Fon AT ALL.

If Byakuya gets an antitdote, Soi Fon and Konamura get one as well. Or it's plotkai.

Also, h3h3h3... seeing as you're not allowing us to use Soi Fon's bankai in our arguments, you have to prevent either Mayuri or Byakuya from using theirs. You can't just imbalance the battle.

And i think everybody is missing that flash cry can just blast away Mayuri's poison..but whatever =\

h3h3h3

07-02-2007, 03:32 PM

^But we don't know what Soi Fong's bankai is, so we can just put it out of our minds, eh?

The_Irving

07-02-2007, 04:13 PM

I forgot Soi Fon could do that thing like Yurouchi (forget what it's called, but she gets a weird aura that blows off her arm/shoulder clothing). So, using that she could blow away the poison in the air for herself, but Komamura would still get poisoned. But, since she only showed the ability to cure poison in the fillers, in isn't canon.

So, let's go by Darkseff's rules. No one can use Bankai. Byakuya uses kidou to seal Soi Fon. She blows it away with her aura-thing. He uses Senbonzakura. She blows it away with her aura-thing. The only thing he has left is kidou and normal sword attacks. She shunpos up to him to stab him. He's fast enough to see her and counter-attacks. I'm going to say draw for now.

Mayuri and Komamura and fighting. Komamura uses his bulky attacks and is easily dodged by Mayuri(the guy was able to keep up with Ishida's god-step thing). Mayuri then paralyzes Komamura with his shikai. Mayuri now turns to Soi Fon, so it's 2v1

Soi Fon has the obvious disadvantage of being outnumbered, and all of her shown attacks can only target single opponents, so if she attacks one of them, she's open to the other's attack. It looks like it still goes to Byakuya/Mayuri....

Dreams

07-02-2007, 04:17 PM

I think it was episode 51-53 Koamura + Tousen vs zaraki, Zaraki didn't have trouble with those two. He didn't even released his eye-badge.

As for Soi-Fon. She is strong, I must admit that. She is about strong as Yoruichi, who is (probably) stronger then Byakuya. This may be a tough battle.

Still, I think Byakuya can win them both :)

Shezmu

07-02-2007, 04:27 PM

^ Dude Komamura didn't really fight, he let Tousen fight and didn't interfere

it has been a while since i saw that ep though, i might be wrong but i'm pretty sure komamura didn't fight

h3h3h3

07-02-2007, 04:48 PM

^Yea, Komamura didn't fight and Zaraki was impressed by Komamura's reiatsu, it's hard to impress Zaraki lol.

Guy

07-02-2007, 06:06 PM

Show me the proof that Byakuya is one of the strongest captains that dosen't include your fanboyism.

This is absolutely pathetic. You have to attack fanboyism everytime. Show me YOUR proof that Byakuya is NOT without your fanboy-hating.

If Mayuri releases bankai then Byakuya is dead as well. But with Soi Fon's speed and shikai she could easily kill him before this happens, and in the event he does release poison, she can nullfiy it with flash cry.

Mayuri will most likely give Byakuya his antidote before fighting. And btw, you have no real proof that Mayuri is slower than Soi Fong. We know Soi Fong is slower than Yoruichi (otherwise, Yoruichi would've died), and we know Mayuri is fast enough to keep up with Ishida's Quincy version of shunpo (forgot what it was called) before Ishida went super powerful.

That makes it Konamura and Soi Fon versus Byakuya. SKY might be able to stop an attack from Tensa Zangetsu, but i highly doubt it can stop a 25-whatever ton giant samurai warrior.

SKY tore apart Renji's bankai... which is a giant ton dragon thingy.

If Byakuya gets an antitdote, Soi Fon and Konamura get one as well. Or it's plotkai.

Tell me, why the hell would Mayuri give an antidote to Soi Fong and Komamura? They're his enemy! Of course Mayuri will give an antidote to Byakuya because Byakuya is on his side.

Anyone who says "Soi Fong can cure all kinds of poison", I'm not convinced until someone throws the manga chapter at me. Otherwise, I'm assuming it is filler nonsense.

Seff vi Britannia

07-02-2007, 06:27 PM

This is absolutely pathetic. You have to attack fanboyism everytime. Show me YOUR proof that Byakuya is NOT without your fanboy-hating.

Well, you asked for proof why Konamura was strong. So i asked you for your proof why Byakuya is so strong. I thought it was a reasonable question. Guess you just can't answer it.

Mayuri will most likely give Byakuya his antidote before fighting. And btw, you have no real proof that Mayuri is slower than Soi Fong. We know Soi Fong is slower than Yoruichi (otherwise, Yoruichi would've died), and we know Mayuri is fast enough to keep up with Ishida's Quincy version of shunpo (forgot what it was called) before Ishida went super powerful.

Well, unless you're intending to propose Mayuri is faster than Byakuya, Soi Fon is faster.

SKY tore apart Renji's bankai... which is a giant ton dragon thingy.

Yeah, it was also the first time Renji had used his bankai. Not like Konamura, who's been a captain longer than Byakuya, apparentely. =\

Tell me, why the hell would Mayuri give an antidote to Soi Fong and Komamura? They're his enemy! Of course Mayuri will give an antidote to Byakuya because Byakuya is on his side.

It's called balancing the battle. You can't say one team can't use their swords. Therefore, you can't say one team gets the antidote and the other dosen't. Especially because it's actually nemu who had the antidote <__<.

Besides, why would Byakuya and Mayuri work together? Byakuya is arrogant and Mayuri would probably love him as a test subject.

Anyone who says "Soi Fong can cure all kinds of poison", I'm not convinced until someone throws the manga chapter at me. Otherwise, I'm assuming it is filler nonsense.

Yep, it came from the fillers, and no that h3h3h3 has included in his rules, "no fillers", i can't use it as evidence. So Soi Fon blasts away the poison with flash cry.

And actually, Soi Fon is the same speed as catgirl... cat had a headstart in running, and Soi Fon kept up with her, keeping the distance eqaul. Therefore, they are the same speed. Just thought about that, but it's more of a maths thingy than a Bleach thingy =\

Guy

07-02-2007, 06:40 PM

Well, you asked for proof why Konamura was strong. So i asked you for your proof why Byakuya is so strong. I thought it was a reasonable question. Guess you just can't answer it.

Byakuya has shown to be able to keep up with bankai Ichigo. He survived the battle, even after taking a direct hit from Ogichi's getsuga tenshou. That's not enough proof why he's not strong? Now, you give me reasons why Komamura is strong. Besides, like I said earlier, Komamura being strong doesn't mean anything, since Mayuri's poison will kill him.

Well, unless you're intending to propose Mayuri is faster than Byakuya, Soi Fon is faster.

It's possible. I mean, Super Ishida outrun Mayuri. I wouldn't be surprised if Super Ishida outruns Soi Fong or even Yoruichi. Of course, that doesn't mean Mayuri is as fast as Soi Fong, it just means that there is this probability.

Yeah, it was also the first time Renji had used his bankai. Not like Konamura, who's been a captain longer than Byakuya, apparentely. =\

Being a captain longer doesn't necessarily mean he's stronger. And actually, discussing Komamura's strength is now pointless, since he will die by the poison.

It's called balancing the battle. You can't say one team can't use their swords. Therefore, you can't say one team gets the antidote and the other dosen't. Especially because it's actually nemu who had the antidote <__<.

Balancing the battle? Lol. No, Mayuri has the antidote (or he forces Nemu to give the antidote to Byakuya). This is team Soi Fong's huge disadvantage. You come to battle prepare. Otherwise, it's your disadvantage. That being said, why doesn't Soi Fong give team Byakuya an antidote?

Besides, why would Byakuya and Mayuri work together? Byakuya is arrogant and Mayuri would probably love him as a test subject.

What makes you think Komamura and Soi Fong will work together? If they don't want to work together, this tag team battle wouldn't exist in the first place... and if that's really the case, why the hell would the gotei 13 members fight among themselves? They should be busy training for the Winter War...

Yep, it came from the fillers, and no that h3h3h3 has included in his rules, "no fillers", i can't use it as evidence. So Soi Fon blasts away the poison with flash cry.

She can't keep using shunko to blast away the poisonous smoke. While she's busy doing that, Byakuya and Mayuri can attack from behind....

And actually, Soi Fon is the same speed as catgirl... cat had a headstart in running, and Soi Fon kept up with her, keeping the distance eqaul. Therefore, they are the same speed. Just thought about that, but it's more of a maths thingy than a Bleach thingy =\

Doesn't change the fact that Yoruichi is stronger than Soi Fong. And Yoruichi said it herself after the encounter with Byakuya on the bridge that no one (except Ukitake, but Ukitake wasn't even on Ichigo's side back then) could match up to Byakuya. And Yoruichi>Soi Fong.

The_Irving

07-02-2007, 07:25 PM

Although Guy obviously is a Byakuya fanboy, everything he's said so far is pretty much true.

@Seff: You can't just say "Why would they even work together?" That's what the thread is about. If you have a problem with the teams, you'd have to talk to h3h3h3. There are plenty of topics like: Ichigo vs. Ishida. Well, why would they fight each other?!

Also, of course Komamura and Soi Fon wouldn't get an antidote! That'd just nullify the point of poison. If you;re gonna be like that, then one of the other captains would have to have one less power. How about Soi Fon can't use shunko?

Guy

07-02-2007, 07:36 PM

Although Guy obviously is a Byakuya fanboy, everything he's said so far is pretty much true.

Huh? What does that mean? I mean, great that you agree, but why did you have to bring up with me being a fanboy? Geez, I can't go anywhere without being persecuted as a fanboy.

@Seff: You can't just say "Why would they even work together?" That's what the thread is about. If you have a problem with the teams, you'd have to talk to h3h3h3. There are plenty of topics like: Ichigo vs. Ishida. Well, why would they fight each other?!

Also, of course Komamura and Soi Fon wouldn't get an antidote! That'd just nullify the point of poison. If you;re gonna be like that, then one of the other captains would have to have one less power. How about Soi Fon can't use shunko?

Yes, thank you for noticing.

The only thing Soi FongxKomamura team can win is if Soi Fong's bankai is very cheap, cheap enough to kill Mayuri and Byakuya before Mayuri poisons them.

h3h3h3

07-02-2007, 07:43 PM

Actually all of em' will most likely die or Mayuri survives, in this match only Mayuri can survive reasons? Read my last Big post.

Seff vi Britannia

07-02-2007, 07:56 PM

Huh? What does that mean? I mean, great that you agree, but why did you have to bring up with me being a fanboy? Geez, I can't go anywhere without being persecuted as a fanboy.

It's no wonder, what with your glaring purple sig and avatar. Maybe if you didn't have such a biased views in argument, people wouldn't bring up your fanboyism so much? Sorry, i'm being facetious again. U__U

Ok, look, it's like this.

Shunko nullifies poison gas.
Shunko nullifies SKY.

Therefore, Byakuya and Mayuri can't use their bankai's special ablities on KonaxFon.

And backstab? Soi Fon has a giant fox with a 25 story tall warrior watching her back. Something tells me she ain't getting backstabbed.

So yeah, Byakuya and Mayuri can't attack. Sure, Mayuri can hurl his giant bankai at 'em, but as we've seen from Ishida versus Mayuri, it moves in a straight line, and captains with shunko (ie, Kona and Soi fon) could dodge it. Also, i'd fancy Tenken in a fight versus Ashigozi jizo. =\

Then we have Soi Fon's two hit kill, which would kill both Mayuri and Byakuya. (who don't have flash cry, aww. T__T)

Oh, i didn't even mention Soi Fon's bankai. But it must be pretty damn lethal, huh? considering what her shikai does =\

Guy

07-02-2007, 09:06 PM

It's no wonder, what with your glaring purple sig and avatar. Maybe if you didn't have such a biased views in argument, people wouldn't bring up your fanboyism so much? Sorry, i'm being facetious again. U__U

No, you have more biased views. As you can see, there are more people here against you than there are that supports you. Is attacking fanboys the only thing you can do here on CB? Is your self-esteem so low that you have to create a fc just to bash fanboys? Stop attacking us, remember, YOU got WARNED once for you attacks on fanboys. We did not. Keep that in mind.

Ok, look, it's like this.

Shunko nullifies poison gas.
Shunko nullifies SKY.

Shunko nullifies poison? Shunko nullifies SKY? Where the hell did you get that? Yoruichi herself couldn't face Byakuya, and Yoruichi>Soi Fong. It seems like you avoided that arguement on PURPOSE.

And backstab? Soi Fon has a giant fox with a 25 story tall warrior watching her back. Something tells me she ain't getting backstabbed.

With Mayuri and Byakuya versus one giant fox? Huh, I doubt it.

So yeah, Byakuya and Mayuri can't attack. Sure, Mayuri can hurl his giant bankai at 'em, but as we've seen from Ishida versus Mayuri, it moves in a straight line, and captains with shunko (ie, Kona and Soi fon) could dodge it. Also, i'd fancy Tenken in a fight versus Ashigozi jizo. =\

You can't dodge gas that is spread in ALL directions. Komamura is screwed, that part is for sure.

Then we have Soi Fon's two hit kill, which would kill both Mayuri and Byakuya. (who don't have flash cry, aww. T__T)

Assuming that she can actually get pass all the SKY. Bankai Ichigo had a hard time doing so. Are you saying bankai Ichigo is only as strong as Soi Fong? That is insane.

Oh, i didn't even mention Soi Fon's bankai. But it must be pretty damn lethal, huh? considering what her shikai does =\

This is your only valid arguement, as we've not seen her bankai yet. This is the only way Soi Fong can possibly win.

EDIT: h3h3h3 said on the first page, that along with filler nonsense, we can't use Soi Fong's unknown bankai, so therefore, discussion of Soi Fong's bankai ends here.

diamondedge

07-02-2007, 09:49 PM

It's no wonder, what with your glaring purple sig and avatar.
As pathetic as ever.:rolleye09
We know you wanna join.

Oh, i didn't even mention Soi Fon's bankai. But it must be pretty damn lethal, huh? considering what her shikai does =\
Uh yes. What fierce debating skills. Talking about using something we didn't even see or have the slightest idea what it could look like.

If I'm not mistaken, you're the one who claimed that Mayuri can kill pretty much everyone with his poison. Feel free to quote yourself from the very battle of Byakuya vs. Mayuri in your explanation. Oh, you've also said mayuri is faster than Byakuya and he and Soi Fong are even in speed (comparison to Yourichi) then she doesn't stand a chance with his shikai, yet alone his bankai. If you claim his poison can kill Byakuya with his speed and Senbonzakura, which makes perfect sense that it would kill off Soi Fong and Komamura with ease. Since you can't escape it, ne? i can't imagine getting oversized block it, or affect in in any way.

Again, Soi fong would two stab Byakuya? Yes, he would stand right there and wouldn't use Senbonzakura at all. With Senbon being ranged, she actually doesn't stand much of a chance. Suzumebachi doesn't have power, and with amount of Senbonzakura byakuya could easily defend all her attacks (as far as i know, Suzumebachi attack power isn't nowhere as strong as Ichigo bankai, and Byakuya blocked it with EASE) AND use it as attack when apropriate. With just THAT, Soi fong can't do shit to Byakuya. ^^

ByaMayuri have both RANGED and CLOSE combat abilities. Both Soi and Komamura are strictly close combat, so just that is enough to turn odds in their favor.

Bya can do kido. I haven't seen Soi or Komamura do it. Byakuya has 3 bankai VERY VERSATILE stages. We didn't even see Soi Fong, so just brining up the argument "it could be very lethal" is totally irrelevant and based mainly on your own guessing and desire to win a debate to point at people's FC tags.

ByaYuri are way too versatile and have WAY too many tricks up their sleeves to loose to Soi and Komamura.

suburbanhell

07-02-2007, 10:01 PM

I agree with diamondedge, I thought about the scenario quite a bit and I really don't see Soi Fon / Konamura coming out the victor in any situation.

Seff vi Britannia

07-02-2007, 10:02 PM

Uh yes. What fierce debating skills. Talking about using something we didn't even see or have the slightest idea what it could look like.

If I'm not mistaken, you're the one who claimed that Mayuri can kill pretty much everyone with his poison.

Qoute me.

Feel free to quote yourself from the very battle of Byakuya vs. Mayuri in your explanation. Oh, you've also said mayuri is faster than Byakuya and he and Soi Fong are even in speed (comparison to Yourichi)

Qoute me.

then she doesn't stand a chance with his shikai, yet alone his bankai. If you claim his poison can kill Byakuya with his speed and Senbonzakura, which makes perfect sense that it would kill off Soi Fong and Komamura with ease.

Senbonsakura is not shunko and cannot nullify it.

Since you can't escape it, ne? i can't imagine getting oversized block it, or affect in in any way.

Shunko (flash cry)

Again, Soi fong would two stab Byakuya? Yes, he would stand right there and wouldn't use Senbonzakura at all. With Senbon being ranged, she actually doesn't stand much of a chance. Suzumebachi doesn't have power, and with amount of Senbonzakura byakuya could easily defend all her attacks

Soi Fon is faster. She gets in and two stabs Byakuya before he releases bankai. We haven't seen him form shields with his shikai form.

(as far as i know, Suzumebachi attack power isn't nowhere as strong as Ichigo bankai, and Byakuya blocked it with EASE) AND use it as attack when apropriate. With just THAT, Soi fong can't do shit to Byakuya. ^^

Simple physics here. Suzemebachi is a point, TZ is an edge. Therefore, Suzemebachi has more pressure behind it. Which means that SKY can't block it in the same manner as it did TZ.

ByaMayuri have both RANGED and CLOSE combat abilities. Both Soi and Komamura are strictly close combat, so just that is enough to turn odds in their favor.

None of them are SERIOUS long range (serious long range would be something like Shinsou.) Also, your argument is a double-edged sword. close combat opponents can have the advantage over long range, and vice versa. Konamura and Soi Fon are both fast, with Soi Fon being the faster. We're not talking ranges of 1-2 miles here, we're talking a few hundred meters max.

Bya can do kido.

Flash cry.

I haven't seen Soi or Komamura do it.

See above.

Byakuya has 3 bankai VERY VERSATILE stages.

To my knowledge, Konamura has been a captain longer than Byakuya. I think Soi Fon has as well. (Byakuya was a captain for 50 years right?). Therefore, it's reasonable to assume they have had more training and also have 3 stages.

We didn't even see Soi Fong, so just brining up the argument "it could be very lethal" is totally irrelevant

Hardly. Hey hey hey, i have a great idea. Let's start a Shunsui versus Ikkaku fight. Ikkaku will obviously win because we haven't seen Shunsui's bankai and therefore we can decide it's not powerful and won't tip the turn of battle. =]

and based mainly on your own guessing and desire to win a debate to point at people's FC tags.

I don't think you've realised i only do it to two kinds of fanboys mainly, then the odd one or two (zaraki can beat aizen lolol11one2!). Sasuke fanboys, because i hate the character, and Byakuya fanboys, because you heavily overrate him.

ByaYuri are way too versatile and have WAY too many tricks up their sleeves to loose to Soi and Komamura.

Yeah, such as?

Bed time now, i'ma just go have another row with my mum ¬___¬

diamondedge

07-02-2007, 10:22 PM

As for the quotes, I have no intention of wasting my life searching the topics. You know as much as i do that you said it. ^^

Soi Fon is faster. She gets in and two stabs Byakuya before he releases bankai. We haven't seen him form shields with his shikai form.
Kageyoshi=Oversized shikai Senbon. I fail to see how quantity makes difference in abilities. ^^

Simple physics here. Suzemebachi is a point, TZ is an edge. Therefore, Suzemebachi has more pressure behind it. Which means that SKY can't block it in the same manner as it did TZ.
Perhaps, but bankai Ichigo has more impact speed. Equation should be around equal here. Again, I could be wrong, but I still don't believe that Suzumebachi has enough power to pierce, even with it's shape. besides, it's way too short.

None of them are SERIOUS long range (serious long range would be something like Shinsou.) Also, your argument is a double-edged sword. close combat opponents can have the advantage over long range, and vice versa. Konamura and Soi Fon are both fast, with Soi Fon being the faster. We're not talking ranges of 1-2 miles here, we're talking a few hundred meters max.
My point was that no matter what you consider long range, both Byakuya and Mayuri can do both, while Soi and Komamura can't.

To my knowledge, Konamura has been a captain longer than Byakuya. I think Soi Fon has as well. (Byakuya was a captain for 50 years right?). Therefore, it's reasonable to assume they have had more training and also have 3 stages.
You said Gin can defeat Byakuya, and he has been captain for as long as Bya. Since you only assume, i have nothing to add here. While you can keep assuming what they have, I know that I don't have to assume anything to say what Byakuya bankai can do. Until I don't see theirs, any discussion about them is useless. :)

Hardly. Hey hey hey, i have a great idea. Let's start a Shunsui versus Ikkaku fight. Ikkaku will obviously win because we haven't seen Shunsui's bankai and therefore we can decide it's not powerful and won't tip the turn of battle. =]
We're talking about captain levels with skill here, not about some god forsaken officers with nothing but raw strength from masochistic division. Not everything is so black and white. What has Ikakku shown? Charge, Hozikimaru! Wow.

I don't think you've realised i only do it to two kinds of fanboys mainly, then the odd one or two (zaraki can beat aizen lolol11one2!). Sasuke fanboys, because i hate the character, and Byakuya fanboys, because you heavily overrate him.
I don't think so. Just because he's one of the youngest captains doesn't mean he's not one of THE strongest. Again, look at Gin. You claim that he can dfeat Byakuya with being captain same amount of time as Bya is, having lame shikai and not even knowing his bankai. I'd say you are underestimating him and not me overestimating, but not us let go in there.

Yeah, such as?
Do you read the manga/watch anime? Then you should know. I think I've said enough of that in the previous post. ^^

Gotta go to bed now.

7th captin

07-03-2007, 12:17 AM

mayuri isn't that strong. the only thing make him strong is his stupid toys he hides behind his sleeves. byakuya is strong but when it comes to speed. soi fon is faster than him and could kill him in two hits.

about komamura . why does everyone thinks that he is weak and slow? just because he got defeated by aizen? we could say the same thing to hitsugaya but we all know that the fans will try to say he was surprised or something like that. komamura isn't slow. remember when he used shunpo infront of zaraki? that proof that he isn't slow.

about his abilities...komamura doesn't need to use his bankai because his shikai is smaller virsion of his bankai and as what in wikipedia say. he can use any parts of his giant armor. example of that when he tried to hit aizen with the giant fist. so komamura can defenitly hit mayuri before he release his bankai and if byakuya tried to intefere , soifon will immedietly come from behind him and finish him without shikai or use shunko.

Jay3205

07-03-2007, 12:52 AM

Unless Soi Fon has some extremely overpowered bankai (which she very well might), Mayuri and Byakuya will take this...

Soi Fon is faster. She gets in and two stabs Byakuya before he releases bankai. We haven't seen him form shields with his shikai form.Soi Fon is not blindingly faster that she can just 2-hit Byakuya before he can react. I doubt any captain except maybe Aizen and Yamamoto have a shot at that. The main point is that Yoruichi admitted not being able to beat Byakuya, and she could've trounced Soi Fong. Since Soi Fong and Yoruichi fight in the same style, this means Byakuya will beat Soi Fon.. it really can't be argued. This fact goes above any theory that Soi Fon can 2-hit kill anybody before they can react or before they use bankai.

Simple physics here. Suzemebachi is a point, TZ is an edge. Therefore, Suzemebachi has more pressure behind it. Which means that SKY can't block it in the same manner as it did TZ.There's also the fact that Soi Fon would have to jab her hand and much of her arm through a wall of blades to attack like that. On top of that, attacking through a wall would slow her down tremendously allowing her attack to be dodged. Finally, an attack through the petal wall would completely eliminate her line of sight, which is crucial to hitting the same spot twice. Byakuya could just move a bit, take a non-fatal hit, then counterattack. Since SKY speed is greater than bankai Ichigo's, there's no way Soi Fon will dodge it.

To my knowledge, Konamura has been a captain longer than Byakuya. I think Soi Fon has as well. (Byakuya was a captain for 50 years right?). Therefore, it's reasonable to assume they have had more training and also have 3 stages.There's nothing indicating that experience = more stages to bankai let alone 3 stages. Mayuri has been captain for at least 200 years, and he shows no sign of having a second or third stage. It's a possibility, but there's no reason to assume it more than there is to assume that eventually every captain will become Aizen-like in strength.

I think the main factor here is Mayuri and his poison. It can't be dodged and it eliminates all chance of close range attack.

Klavier Gavin

07-03-2007, 01:05 AM

@Seff: You can't just say "Why would they even work together?" That's what the thread is about. If you have a problem with the teams, you'd have to talk to h3h3h3. There are plenty of topics like: Ichigo vs. Ishida. Well, why would they fight each other?!

I mentioned something about Byakuya and Mayuri not being able to work as a team. Let me further clarify on what I meant. You see, the personalities of Byakuya and Mayuri clashes in my opinion.

Byakuya would not bother hurting people on his side, just to get to the enemy. Therefore, even if Mayuri is near an enemy he would just use Senbonzakura without caring about Mayuri.

Mayuri, on the other hand, wouldn't mind sacrificing his ally to gain something. He could just grab Byakuya and use him as a meat-shield or let Byakuya fight alone and uses his Bankai from long range, getting Byakuya, Soi Fong and Komamura at the same time. I don't see why he would hand over the antidote to Byakuya, seeing how arrogant they both are. Even if Byakuya really gets the antidote, I don't really think he would use it. He's the kind who would rather die than get help from someone, due to his pride.

One last thing, Byakuya takes pride in his fights as well, and probably would do anything to it takes to win. I'm not anti-Byakuya or Mayuri, but I feel that they would be better off being individual fighters.

sweeter

07-03-2007, 02:41 AM

I mentioned something about Byakuya and Mayuri not being able to work as a team.

I think it is assumed that they will be able to work together, if only for the purposes of this discussion.

(:

Since SKY speed is greater than bankai Ichigo's

Bankai Ichigo is faster than SKY (Ch. 163, p. 11-13).

Soi Fon is not blindingly faster that she can just 2-hit Byakuya before he can react.

Soi Fong kept up with Yoruichi (Ch. 158). Yoruichi is faster than Byakuya, enough for him to fail to react for some time (Ch. 118, p. 18).

I think the main factor here is Mayuri and his poison. It can't be dodged and it eliminates all chance of close range attack.

Komamura's giant Bankai. It can rape the giant baby for Team SK while the two of them kick Byakuya's ass at a fair distance. Team SK isn't poisoned.

(:

Guy

07-03-2007, 03:16 AM

I mentioned something about Byakuya and Mayuri not being able to work as a team. Let me further clarify on what I meant. You see, the personalities of Byakuya and Mayuri clashes in my opinion.

Byakuya would not bother hurting people on his side, just to get to the enemy. Therefore, even if Mayuri is near an enemy he would just use Senbonzakura without caring about Mayuri.

Mayuri, on the other hand, wouldn't mind sacrificing his ally to gain something. He could just grab Byakuya and use him as a meat-shield or let Byakuya fight alone and uses his Bankai from long range, getting Byakuya, Soi Fong and Komamura at the same time. I don't see why he would hand over the antidote to Byakuya, seeing how arrogant they both are. Even if Byakuya really gets the antidote, I don't really think he would use it. He's the kind who would rather die than get help from someone, due to his pride.

One last thing, Byakuya takes pride in his fights as well, and probably would do anything to it takes to win. I'm not anti-Byakuya or Mayuri, but I feel that they would be better off being individual fighters.

Individual fighters they may be, but if they're not going to work together to fight against the enemy, then there is no point whatsoever to this battle. Similarly speaking, why should Soi Fong and Komamura fight against someone else who is also in the gotei 13?

Soi Fong kept up with Yoruichi (Ch. 158). Yoruichi is faster than Byakuya, enough for him to fail to react for some time (Ch. 118, p. 18).

Eh, no sweeter (can I call you that? Your username is too long and everyone else calls you that). I think Jay's point was this:

The main point is that Yoruichi admitted not being able to beat Byakuya, and she could've trounced Soi Fong. Since Soi Fong and Yoruichi fight in the same style, this means Byakuya will beat Soi Fon.. it really can't be argued. This fact goes above any theory that Soi Fon can 2-hit kill anybody before they can react or before they use bankai.

sweeter

07-03-2007, 03:29 AM

The main point is that Yoruichi admitted not being able to beat Byakuya, and she could've trounced Soi Fong.

Byakuya > Yoruichi > Soi Fong doesn't work in this case.

Soi Fong was emotionally unstable during her fight with Yoruichi. She has no reason to hesitate toward Byakuya.

Since Soi Fong and Yoruichi fight in the same style, this means Byakuya will beat Soi Fon.. it really can't be argued.

Yoruichi doesn't possess a two-hit sure-kill stinger on her hand.

Eh, no sweeter (can I call you that? Your username is too long and everyone else calls you that).

Of course.

(:

Guy

07-03-2007, 03:37 AM

Byakuya > Yoruichi > Soi Fong doesn't work in this case.

Soi Fong was emotionally unstable during her fight with Yoruichi. She has no reason to hesitate toward Byakuya.

Emotionally unstable could prove to be Soi Fong's advantage. In the manga Rukia was emotionally unstable, that's how she killed 9th. If she wasn't, she would be dead without killing anyone

Yoruichi doesn't possess a two-hit sure-kill stinger on her hand.

And Byakuya isn't slow enough to just stand there and let Soi Fong pierce him. Soi Fong is not way faster than Byakuya. Even Byakuya ultimately caught up to Yoruichi. Regardless of speed, Yoruichi owned Soi Fong, who was destined to hunt down Yoruichi for revenge.

Of course.

(:

Heh, thanks.

The_Irving

07-03-2007, 03:46 AM

@Guy: Sorry if you took offense to me calling you a fanboy, Guy. I didn't mean it in a negative way, but seriously check out your sig sometime.

@HitsuTen: For the purpose of this topic, they are working together. You can't say they aren't, or else this entire argument is null. I agree with your points, but I was just saying that in the topic, the "why" doesn't matter, it's the "how".

@sweeter: SKY is faster than Tensa Zangetsu when being manually controlled by Byakuya. It managed to surround him, but Ichigo used the infamous "swing the sword in random directions to somehow make a three-sixty degree cutting attack" maneuver to counter it.

@Jay: You are correct. Byakuya>Yurouchi>Soi Fon, stated by the ol' cat girl herself, in all her wisdom.

@Seff: I have to agree with you, that Sasuke fanboys are the effing worst people to be spawned on this god-forsaken rock. But, em, your comment about Kyoraku vs. Ikkaku doesn't even make sense. That's a whole different story entirely. I can see how it's slightly unfair that Soi can't sue Bankai, so refer to my post a while back (I believe page 3) to see what would happen if nobody could use Bankai.

Guy

07-03-2007, 03:53 AM

@Guy: Sorry if you took offense to me calling you a fanboy, Guy. I didn't mean it in a negative way, but seriously check out your sig sometime.

Meh, sorry about that. I tend to get a little overhype sometimes. Btw, my sig is a present from my e-wife. Of course I have to show if off ^^

@HitsuTen: For the purpose of this topic, they are working together. You can't say they aren't, or else this entire argument is null. I agree with your points, but I was just saying that in the topic, the "why" doesn't matter, it's the "how".

Yes, I agree. It doesn't make sense that gotei 13 captains are fighting in the first place. Therefore, one would have to assume that these teammates are willing to work together.

@Seff: I have to agree with you, that Sasuke fanboys are the effing worst people to be spawned on this god-forsaken rock. But, em, your comment about Kyoraku vs. Ikkaku doesn't even make sense. That's a whole different story entirely. I can see how it's slightly unfair that Soi can't sue Bankai, so refer to my post a while back (I believe page 3) to see what would happen if nobody could use Bankai.

Damn, Sasuke fanboys! Lol.

sweeter

07-03-2007, 04:08 AM

@sweeter: SKY is faster than Tensa Zangetsu when being manually controlled by Byakuya. It managed to surround him, but Ichigo used the infamous "swing the sword in random directions to somehow make a three-sixty degree cutting attack" maneuver to counter it.

Point is, SKY can't touch Bankai Ichigo. That's why Byakuya switched to Senkei.

(:

Emotionally unstable could prove to be Soi Fong's advantage. In the manga

Rukia was emotionally unstable, that's how she killed 9th. If she wasn't, she would be dead without killing anyone

That doesn't add anything relevant to the discussion. Emotional instability clearly had a negative effect in Yoruichi vs. Soi Fon (Ch. 159). Byakuya vs. Soi Fon would be different, with no hesitancy to kill Byakuya on Soi Fon's part.

Byakuya isn't slow enough to just stand there and let Soi Fong pierce him. Soi Fong is not way faster than Byakuya.

Yoruichi was fast enough to surprise Byakuya and even say some words while he struggled to react.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w189/xsweeterthanchocolatex/118-18.jpg

Since Soi Fong is around Yoruichi's speed, she can do the same to Byakuya. Only, replace the talking part with the two-hit sure-killing part.

Regardless of speed, Yoruichi owned Soi Fong, who was destined to hunt down Yoruichi for revenge.

I thought it was for lesbian sex, not revenge.

(:

Klavier Gavin

07-03-2007, 04:19 AM

Victory would probably go to Mayuri and Byakuya then.

Mayuri would hand the antidote over to Byakuya at the beginning of the battle and Byakuya splits Senbonzakura to attack both Soi Fong and Komamura together, distracting them and allowing Mayuri to use Bankai without getting attacked.

Soi Fong would probably dodge, and go for Mayuri with Suzumebachi's two hit kill. Byakuya sees her doing that and controls Senbonzakura to backstab her.

I'm not trying to make Komamura sound weak here, but he wouldn't be fast enough to dodge Senbonzakura. Byakuya would be enough to take Komamura down alone.

sweeter

07-03-2007, 04:27 AM

^^ Maybe Komamura's Bankai can take care of Mayuri's? That's the biggest danger, actually. That is, if Soi Fong can't just kill Mayuri off before he releases.

(:

Guy

07-03-2007, 04:44 AM

That doesn't add anything relevant to the discussion. Emotional instability clearly had a negative effect in Yoruichi vs. Soi Fon (Ch. 159). Byakuya vs. Soi Fon would be different, with no hesitancy to kill Byakuya on Soi Fon's part.

How so? I don't see how emotional instability lead Soi Fong to lose. If I recall correctly, she was determined to chase down Yoruichi.

Yoruichi was fast enough to surprise Byakuya and even say some words while he struggled to react.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w189/xsweeterthanchocolatex/118-18.jpg

Since Soi Fong is around Yoruichi's speed, she can do the same to Byakuya. Only, replace the talking part with the two-hit sure-killing part.

Didn't Yoruichi come from Byakuya's behind? And besides, byakuya was shock to see Yoruichi, someone he thought might have died hundreds of years ago. And besides, Soi Fong will have to be fast enough to hit Byakuya twice in the same spot, hitting him once won't be enough. I'm sure Byakuya is not slow enough to just stand there and be hit twice (maybe once, but not twice)

I thought it was for lesbian sex, not revenge.

(:

No, first it was revenge. After Yoruichi owned Soi Fong, Soi Fong thought lesbian sex is a better idea.

sweeter

07-03-2007, 06:14 AM

I don't see how emotional instability lead Soi Fong to lose.

She broke down on her knees and cried.

And besides, byakuya was shock to see Yoruichi, someone he thought might have died hundreds of years ago.

He had already composed himself by the time Yoruichi outsped him (Ch. 118, p. 8).

And besides, Soi Fong will have to be fast enough to hit Byakuya twice in the same spot, hitting him once won't be enough. I'm sure Byakuya is not slow enough to just stand there and be hit twice (maybe once, but not twice)

Bankai Ichigo was fast enough to put his sword to Byakuya's neck twice. Yoruichi, in all likelihood, is faster than Bankai Ichigo. If Soi Fong is around Yoruichi/Bankai Ichigo's speed, she can do the same.

(:

FullMetal Rebel

07-03-2007, 10:51 AM

I don't know where this Byakuya>Yoruichi thing is coming from.

1: she hasn't shown her zanpaktou yet.

2:Out of shape.

3:In case some of you didn't notice Yoruichi>bankai Ichigo.She beat Yammy where Ichigo couldn't.

So the Byakuya>Yoruichi>Soi Fong.Isn't valid.This is like this:Shikai Ichigo>Zaraki>Tousen.Which we know isn't true.You can't use that diagram to determine who is stronger.

h3h3h3

07-03-2007, 11:34 AM

Komamura is prejudiced weak because of Aizen's awesomeness, Byakuya and almost all captains would have fallen as fast as Komamura and Komamura stood up and screamed at Tousen after being Kurohitsugi'd, Komamura is not weak. His oversized bankai can smash both Mayuri's and Byakuya's bankai's if he were as fast as them, it's only logical that huge Komamura isn't as fast as Byakuya/Mayuri.

Off: Bankai Ichigo is faster than Yoruichi and Soi Fong. Gin > Byakuya, please don't bring unrelated stuff on this topic.

T_Ichigo

07-03-2007, 11:47 AM

We don't even know what Komamura's bankai is capable of, and Soi Fong's hasn't been revealed yet. As long as it is only specualtions, no one is right or wrong unless the argues aren't based on facts.
Gin > Byakuya ? since when ? if it is stated on manga then nevermind.

I bet that KOmamura and Soi Fong win this battle because I belive that their bankais are somehow, way stronger, more destructive and powerful.
There is a reason that Kubo Taito chose to reveal some bankais late, and Komamura's and Soi Fong's are one of these.

No but wait .. Mayuri's almighty poision kills everything, I just changed my mind. Byakuya and Mayuri FTW! :D:D:D

Klavier Gavin

07-03-2007, 12:35 PM

@sweeter: I believe Soi Fong wouldn't be able to two hits kill Mayuri that easily, he should be able to react in the nick of time or Byakuya would just use Senbonzakura on her when she's about to strike Mayuri down.

However, this could be the turning point. If Komamura uses his bankai here and smashes Mayuri/Byakuya. One of them could be taken down already, but we don't know yet since we haven't see how powerful his bankai truly is.

The_Irving

07-03-2007, 01:52 PM

@Fullmetal: Yurouchi didn't beat Yammi (although she could've). She hit him a couple times, but that resulted in her getting her limbs broken/damaged. Ichigo was beating the crap out of Yammi easily until Ogichi began messing with Ichigo. And, she hasn't shown her zanpakutou yet because it's never with her (unless it's just a tiny knife or something). If she doesn't carry it, chances are she doesn't plan on needing it. Oh, and her being out of shape is her own fault. In that shape, she still beat Soi Fon. So, yes, Byakuya>Yurouchi>Soi Fon.

@sweeter: Yes, SKY couldn't touch Ichigo, but the point is that it could catch up with him. Right now it seems to be a debate about speed, which SKY has, because it could've hit Ichigo, but was blocked by his attacks (not speed related). Soi Fon wouldn't be able to deflect it, because
1. a person's arm shouldn't be able to bend that way (Ichigo had his sword as an extension)
2. It's too small, so even trying that would bring risk to your hand and arm.
3. She can't 2-hit kill SKY :P

@Hitsu: Thanks for agreeing. Mayuri was fast enough to speed around Ishida (before Final Form), so he should be able to at least react to Soi Fon's attacks.

h3h3h3

07-03-2007, 02:23 PM

Off:Gin > Byakuya ? since when ? if it is stated on manga then nevermind.
Why do you think Gin has somehow improved during HM? Vizard? I don't think he's one. And I think Gin was more powerfull than Byakuya in SS and still is.

Klavier Gavin

07-03-2007, 02:47 PM

@Hitsu: Thanks for agreeing. Mayuri was fast enough to speed around Ishida (before Final Form), so he should be able to at least react to Soi Fon's attacks.

I'm just trying to be neutral here, no problem.

I believe the turning point lies in Komamura's bankai. We haven't seen how much damage it can do or how fast it attacks. In Bleach HTS 4 it was pretty fast but we can't judge from that since it's not proven in the anime, not sure about manga.

sweeter

07-03-2007, 02:53 PM

@sweeter: Yes, SKY couldn't touch Ichigo, but the point is that it could catch up with him.

Yes, but it wasn't fast enough to hit him, because his hand movements were fast enough to deflect it. So Bankai Ichigo('s movements) are faster than SKY. Still the same conclusion.

Right now it seems to be a debate about speed, which SKY has, because it could've hit Ichigo, but was blocked by his attacks (not speed related). Soi Fon wouldn't be able to deflect it, because
1. a person's arm shouldn't be able to bend that way (Ichigo had his sword as an extension)

True.

2. It's too small, so even trying that would bring risk to your hand and arm.

What about Shunko?

3. She can't 2-hit kill SKY :P

True.

@sweeter: I believe Soi Fong wouldn't be able to two hits kill Mayuri that easily, he should be able to react in the nick of time or Byakuya would just use Senbonzakura on her when she's about to strike Mayuri down.

Of course. A fellow Captain shouldn't be two-hit killed before even releasing Bankai. That argument is quite improbable, in perspective.

Now, Soi Fong can kill Mayuri after he releases Bankai, but then she would be subject to the poison. Bad move. Cue Komamura's Bankai, then. The giant warrior can prevent the baby from moving around and spreading poison. Meanwhile, Soi Fong and Komamura can duke it out with Byakuya at a fair distance.

(:

diamondedge

07-03-2007, 03:34 PM

Point is, SKY can't touch Bankai Ichigo. That's why Byakuya switched to Senkei.
Agreed. But Senkei is still part of his ability and ichigo's training and bankai wre in all honesty all in order specificaly for byakuya. "Even Yourichi herself said, In 3 days i will make this boy stronger than you". The fact is that she failed, becasue Byakuya would have won if not for plotkai and for Ogichi, no doubt.

But ya, wandering off topic. ^^

Since Soi Fong is around Yoruichi's speed, she can do the same to Byakuya. Only, replace the talking part with the two-hit sure-killing part.
True, but all that Byakuya has to do it to shield himself wit Sky, and if Soi tried to pierce him, due to the fact that her zanpaktou is part of her hand, I think it's much more probably that due to sharpness and force of the SKY, she'd find herself missing an arm. ^^
We all saw what SKY can do. (feel free to read CH 142), so IMO that alone is enough for Byakuya to remain untouched against Suzumebachi. ^^

I thought it was for lesbian sex, not revenge.

Hahaha, that too. xD

Gin>Byakuya? I still don't think so and i never will. :)

I bet that KOmamura and Soi Fong win this battle because I belive that their bankais are somehow, way stronger, more destructive and powerful.
Um ... Okay. So, in your opinion, they win with two bankai that NO one has any idea of. You just have a feeling. Fine by me, but you can't actually argue with that, IMO. ^^;

sweeter

07-03-2007, 03:43 PM

True, but all that Byakuya has to do it to shield himself wit Sky, and if Soi tried to pierce him, due to the fact that her zanpaktou is part of her hand, I think it's much more probably that due to sharpness and force of the SKY, she'd find herself missing an arm. ^^
We all saw what SKY can do. (feel free to read CH 142), so IMO that alone is enough for Byakuya to remain untouched against Suzumebachi. ^^

This is true. Besides, Byakuya has kidou! If this was Soi Fong vs. Byakuya, Soi Fong would be dead because of Binding Spell #61.

However, I'm counting on Komamura's Bankai making quick work of Mayuri and his baby, after which, Soi Fong + Komamura + Komamura's Bankai vs. Byakuya, in which Byakuya would lose.

(:

T_Ichigo

07-03-2007, 03:59 PM

Why do you think Gin has somehow improved during HM? Vizard? I don't think he's one. And I think Gin was more powerfull than Byakuya in SS and still is.
Hmm that is still what you think, the fact doesn't say it.

h3h3h3

07-03-2007, 05:58 PM

Hmm that is still what you think, the fact doesn't say it.
True :).

Guy

07-03-2007, 06:10 PM

She broke down on her knees and cried.

That was at the very end when Yoruichi owned her. Dude, I would do that too, man. It's call using sympathy so that someone spares my life, lmao. Point is, at the beginning of the battle, Soi Fong was very inclined in killing Yoruichi, chasing after her with Suzumebachi and all.

He had already composed himself by the time Yoruichi outsped him (Ch. 118, p. 8).

You mean like striking Yoruichi once with his unreleased blade? Yeah, I can only imagine what would have happened if Byakuya uses his hands and controlled SKY.

Bankai Ichigo was fast enough to put his sword to Byakuya's neck twice. Yoruichi, in all likelihood, is faster than Bankai Ichigo. If Soi Fong is around Yoruichi/Bankai Ichigo's speed, she can do the same.

(:

I disagree about the speed part. Until I see Yoruichi repelling several thousand (even millions) blades, I'm going to say bankai Ichigo (his bankai IS speed) is much faster than Yoruichi.

However, I'm counting on Komamura's Bankai making quick work of Mayuri and his baby, after which, Soi Fong + Komamura + Komamura's Bankai vs. Byakuya, in which Byakuya would lose.

(:

Komamura can't avoid Mayuri's poison. And besides, arguing about Komamura being underrated is one thing, but to say Komamura is uber strong is sort of overrating him, if you ask me.

shinigami-butterfly

07-03-2007, 10:21 PM

Mayuri and Byakuya have a greater advantage of winning because of Mayuri's poison, it is impossible for Soi Fon to dodge it no matter how fast she is, unless Soi Fon's bankai is something that can absorb poison, but I think her bankai will be something that boosts her speed so that she can make better use of her shikai power

7th captin

07-03-2007, 11:51 PM

errr guys... komamura isn't that slow. he can do shunpo and we already seen it in episode 51-52 when the four confronted zaraki.

off the topic a little bit:

lol there is one easy solution for winning and that solution is to wear a mask :p in order not to breath the poison and so koma -fon win easily.

The_Irving

07-04-2007, 01:59 AM

You still need to breathe while wearing a mask, 7th :p We have yet to see gas masks in SS, although if they existed they'd be under the jurisdiction of, guess who: Mayuri.

Also, about Komamura (seems like we've been arguing a lot about Soi Fon, so I want to switch pace), in his defense, he can shunpo, but his attacks a slow and predictable (by Bleach standards). I couldn't see that guy, or his giant living armor, attacking at the speed of Byakuya, Soi Fon, or even Mayuri. You keep saying he could kill Mayuri's golden baby swiftly, but Mayuri could either stand back, or run at it low and at full force. The armor can't sweep low, or else it'd cut Komamura.

sweeter

07-04-2007, 02:54 AM

Point is, at the beginning of the battle, Soi Fong was very inclined in killing Yoruichi, chasing after her with Suzumebachi and all.

She was acting rashly, spewing unnecessary threats. It's out of character for Soi Fong, since she's the no-nonsense type. She was affected from the start, it built up, and she broke down crying.

Yeah, I can only imagine what would have happened if Byakuya uses his hands and controlled SKY.

Yeah. Stupid Byakuya, huh?

Until I see Yoruichi repelling several thousand (even millions) blades, I'm going to say bankai Ichigo (his bankai IS speed) is much faster than Yoruichi.

The point is Yoruichi is faster than Byakuya, Soi Fong is around Yoruichi's speed, therefore Soi Fong is faster than Byakuya. Bankai Ichigo is also faster than Byakuya, and we don't know if he or the Goddess of Flash/one-half of the former strongest duo of Soul Society is faster, but I'm betting the latter is.

Komamura can't avoid Mayuri's poison. And besides, arguing about Komamura being underrated is one thing, but to say Komamura is uber strong is sort of overrating him, if you ask me.

Komamura won't take care of Mayuri and the baby. His Bankai will. It's a giant warrior that mimics Komamura's movements. Komamura can send his warrior toward the baby and kill it, without him [Komamura] actually being exposed to the poison. The key is range. Get it?

(:

Guy

07-04-2007, 03:23 AM

She was acting rashly, spewing unnecessary threats. It's out of character for Soi Fong, since she's the no-nonsense type. She was affected from the start, it built up, and she broke down crying.

You mean she didn't want to kill Yoruichi from the start? I don't think so.

Yeah. Stupid Byakuya, huh?

WTF does this have to do with anything?

The point is Yoruichi is faster than Byakuya, Soi Fong is around Yoruichi's speed, therefore Soi Fong is faster than Byakuya. Bankai Ichigo is also faster than Byakuya, and we don't know if he or the Goddess of Flash/one-half of the former strongest duo of Soul Society is faster, but I'm betting the latter is.

Bankai Ichigo is faster than Yoruichi, from what I've seen, actually, I'd dare say way faster. Until Yoruichi shows us she can deflect millions of petals with one sword, I'm going to say Yoruichi is much slower than bankai Ichigo. (She got hit by Byakuya unreleased. Byakuya couldn't hit Bankai Ichigo even with his bankai).

Komamura won't take care of Mayuri and the baby. His Bankai will. It's a giant warrior that mimics Komamura's movements. Komamura can send his warrior toward the baby and kill it, without him [Komamura] actually being exposed to the poison. The key is range. Get it?

(:

Assuming SKY and Mayuri's bankai doesn't kill it first.

sweeter

07-04-2007, 03:32 AM

You mean she didn't want to kill Yoruichi from the start? I don't think so.

She wanted to. But of course she was hesitating.

WTF does this have to do with anything?

Nothing, really. You're just funny when you're mad. A bit cute, too.

(:

(She got hit by Byakuya unreleased.

When was this?

Assuming SKY and Mayuri's bankai doesn't kill it first.

Yes. But poison won't do shiz to it, and that's the baby's primary offense. Byakuya's Bankai can kill it, but in more time it would take for it to destroy the baby. And with the baby gone, Mayuri's slimezorz/a meat shield for Byakuya.

(:

shinigami-butterfly

07-04-2007, 03:55 AM

I don't see what the battle between Yoruichi and Soi Fon has got to do with this battle, yes Soi Fon is emotional but why must she gets all emo in front of Byakuya and Mayuri, and about speed. Soi Fon>Yoruichi>Byakuya

Guy

07-04-2007, 04:11 AM

She wanted to. But of course she was hesitating.

She was hesitating? I don't think so. She looks serious enough to me. Provide the panel otherwise.

Nothing, really. You're just funny when you're mad. A bit cute, too.

(:

If what you speak is the truth (Internet sucks at conveying sarcasm), then I'm flattered. Most people tend to find me obnoxious and annoying when I'm mad. Oh, but I'm already e-married. *winks*

When was this?

Bridge scene.

Yes. But poison won't do shiz to it, and that's the baby's primary offense. Byakuya's Bankai can kill it, but in more time it would take for it to destroy the baby. And with the baby gone, Mayuri's slimezorz/a meat shield for Byakuya.

(:

The poison will still be in the air for the two of them to breathe. Don't forget, Mayuri's bankai baby also has those spike/sword thingy below its chin.

The_Irving

07-04-2007, 04:18 AM

Actually Mayuri's poison would be considered an indirect attack. It's primary weapon is the charge with spikes. It could do that to plow down Komamura's Bankai. Anyway, Komamura's Bankai mimics all of his movement, and nothing more. For him to send it into the poison, he'd have to go into the poison first, since it's initial position is behind him. It's not like Mayuri's, which can move freely (albeit very linearly).

Oh, and s_b, reverse that equation. Byakuya>Yurouchi>Soi Fon. Yurouchi said she couldn't have beaten Byakuya, and she pretty much defeated Soi Fon.

Zanga

07-04-2007, 04:38 AM

She got hit by Bykuya unrealesed?

Wasn't that a decoy? >.>

Guy

07-04-2007, 04:47 AM

She got hit by Bykuya unrealesed?
Wasn't that a decoy? >.>

What? How so?

Zanga

07-04-2007, 05:06 AM

Don't remember if it was in the manga, but Yourichi pulled a ninja susbstitution trick on Byakuya so she could get away. All he slashed was some garments or something and a straw thing.

Seff vi Britannia

07-04-2007, 07:03 AM

Actually, Yourouichi implied she couldn't beat Byakuya and escape with Ichigo, especially with Ukitake there.

And compare Soi Fon's mentality to that of a teenager who's just had an argument with his parents. You're angry and irrational to start off with, but you regret it a short while after.

And i'm not sure why people are saying Soi Fon can't escape the poison.. look up Flash Cry, kthx.

T_Ichigo

07-04-2007, 10:23 AM

Actually, Yourouichi implied she couldn't beat Byakuya and escape with Ichigo, especially with Ukitake there.

Naah it is necessarily not an indication that Yoruichi can't beat Byakuya just because she escaped with Ichigo on her back. She just simply wanted to save Ichigo from Byakuya because she knew he couldn't beat him back then.
Yoruichi didn't have any bussiness with Byakuya either.
And besides, the fact that she managed to escape from Byakuya with Ichigo on her back displays that she is of a very high level.

And I also doubt that Byakuya, who lost to Ichigo can beat Yoruichi who is, what I believe near as same level as Kisuke :S

As for the topic, I still bet Komamura and Soi Fong with their unrevelead bankais.

Klavier Gavin

07-04-2007, 11:08 AM

T_Ichigo

07-04-2007, 12:46 PM

I'm almost convinced that her shunko, or the technique that she hasn't mastered yet can easily deal with senbonzakura, without any problems.
That is still a thought though, and so are your statements.

7th captin

07-04-2007, 12:48 PM

the irving:

komamura can move while he use his shikai (proof : he was running and used his shikai when he tried to hit aizen) and his attack was fast . without the tricks that mayuri use he is nothing.

nobody knows what komamura's bankai is capable of because every bankai has 3 or 4 moves. we didn't see the first one completely. just the shape.

sweeter

07-04-2007, 01:32 PM

She was hesitating? I don't think so. She looks serious enough to me. Provide the panel otherwise.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w189/xsweeterthanchocolatex/manga-rainbleach-ch157-18.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w189/xsweeterthanchocolatex/manga-rainbleach-ch159-02.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w189/xsweeterthanchocolatex/159-17-18.jpg

You see... The menagerie of emotions built up and she broke down crying.

Bridge scene.

Yoruichi wasn't hit. She used some kind of ninja trick. She was clearly uninjured from Byakuya's slash, as it didn't even touch her (Ch. 118-119).

The poison will still be in the air for the two of them to breathe. Don't forget, Mayuri's bankai baby also has those spike/sword thingy below its chin.

How can Team SK be exposed to the poison if they're at a safe distance? It will only be giant warrior who will go toward the baby to smash it.

Oh, and I don't think Shunko can nullify poison. But it can probably hold off SKY for some time.

(:

The_Irving

07-04-2007, 07:49 PM

Komamura's Bankai hasn't demonstrated the ability to move freely, like I said before, so he can't send it away from him to do his bidding (as far as we know). As on now, we only know it mimics his movement (shown in both the anime and HTS4). He'd have to walk into the poison first, since the Bankai appears behind him. Even if he could send it away, now Komamura is defenseless, without his warrior. Oh, and Mayuri's poison is a gas, so it would spread to them eventually, even if they could kill his Bankai at a range.

As for shunko, it can't nullify poison, but it's aura might keep the poison at a slight distance from her, but it can't protect Komamura. Also, it'd be able to keep away some of SKY, but then he decides SKY is useless, he can use kidou or White Imperial Sword.

Seff vi Britannia

07-04-2007, 08:20 PM

I'm sure Yoruichi is faster than Byakuya, but the thing is she's not as fast as Senbonzakura. Even Ichigo got surrounded by it when Byakuya controlled it with his hands, so I don't see how Yoruichi can dodge that. Ichigo has a sword to block those attacks off, but Yoruichi can only use her hands.

She has Flash Cry. Yourouichi would win in a battle versus Byakuya. Proofs? Yourouichi has greater speed, ability to nullify SKY, and she can beat the 10th espada senseless. But this isn't the right topic. =]

I'm putting my money on Soi Fon being faster than SKY, and having Shunko to nullify it anyway. I don't know what this is about Konamura's bankai, but because he summons the WHOLE warrior, if he orders it to move forwards, it would. His shikai wouldn't as he only summons parts of the warrior.

Guy

07-04-2007, 08:48 PM

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w189/xsweeterthanchocolatex/manga-rainbleach-ch157-18.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w189/xsweeterthanchocolatex/manga-rainbleach-ch159-02.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w189/xsweeterthanchocolatex/159-17-18.jpg

You see... The menagerie of emotions built up and she broke down crying.

Didn't Soi Fong said in the first panel that she is not holding back? Second panel: She looks aggressive to me. Are you implying she hesitated when Yoruichi said stop? I'm sorry, I might need to read the entire chapter for this.

How can Team SK be exposed to the poison if they're at a safe distance? It will only be giant warrior who will go toward the baby to smash it.

Poison in its gaseous state spreads in all directions. When something is in a gaseous state, it has no definite volume or shape. It's basic chemistry.

Oh, and I don't think Shunko can nullify poison. But it can probably hold off SKY for some time.

(:

Shunko can knock back several millions of petals for some time? Unlikely, and Byakuya can separate petals and surround Soi Fong, just like he did to Bankai Ichigo. Unfortunately, for Soi Fong, she doesn't have Tensa Zangetsu nor the speed to repel all those petals.

QUOTE=Darkseff]She has Flash Cry. Yourouichi would win in a battle versus Byakuya. Proofs? Yourouichi has greater speed, ability to nullify SKY, and she can beat the 10th espada senseless. But this isn't the right topic. =][/QUOTE]

Yoruichi>Soi Fong. Yoruichi herself said no one at the bridge scene could beat Byakuya, except for Ukitake, but why the hell would Ukitake fight against Byakuya to save a ryoka?

Yoruichi can nullify SKY? Proof please.

She beat the tenth espada senseless? Yeah, and Yami's cero would've pwned her to oblivion if it were not for Urahara. Besides, what makes you think Byakuya can't do the same? Bankai Ichigo pwned Yami senseless too, until he started to fight with Ogichi (or himself).

Jay3205

07-05-2007, 03:54 AM

Yoruichi admitted that she could not beat Byakuya. She said "there was nobody on that bridge that could beat him, but you [Ichigo] alone can" (or something very similar). There's no arguing it.

Secondly, on the bridge scene, Yoruichi does get hit. She is later shown spitting up blood though it's not shown in the anime. Either way, SKY is at least (and I do mean the minimum) 3-5x faster than Byakuya himself. If Yoruichi is 3x faster than Byakuya (which she likely is not since she got caught), then she's still screwed since SKY can catch up and attack from multiple directions.

Thirdly, why is it being assumed that shunko is some type of attack that can beat hundreds of millions of petals? SKY can attack omnidirectionally, using petals or senkei if needed. Judging from all the craters and whatnot shunko leaves, the bulk of its force is directed in the punch/kick direction. The leftover won't be able to defend against a bankai. Either way, Soi Fon's shunko is nowhere near the level of Yoruichi's. Yoruichi leaves giant craters when using shunko. Soi Fon's does pretty much nothing.

Finally, even though Yoruichi pwned Yammi, she pwned herself in the process. On top of this, temporarily knocking down Yammi is not nearly as badly as what non-serious Ichigo did to him. Pretty much any captain could beat unreleased Yammi.

sweeter

07-05-2007, 05:07 AM

Didn't Soi Fong said in the first panel that she is not holding back?

No. She said, "Don't you think I'm holding back because all I truly want is lesbian sex with you... Yoruichi?" Or something to that effect.

I'm sorry, I might need to read the entire chapter for this.

Chapters 157-159.

Poison in its gaseous state spreads in all directions. When something is in a gaseous state, it has no definite volume or shape. It's basic chemistry.

LOL. I know that. But Mayuri's poison is liquid dispersed in gas. Technically, it isn't the gas itself. That would take time for it to be carried to a farther location, where Team SK is. And it won't reach them, cause by that time, the baby with spikes under its chin would be destroyed by the sword-wielding fully-armored 50-story-tall warrior.

I don't know what this is about Konamura's bankai, but because he summons the WHOLE warrior, if he orders it to move forwards, it would.

That's my logic, too. A giant warrior wouldn't be too useful of a Bankai if it was glued behind Komamura all the way, wouldn't it? Why wouldn't it be able to move in front of him? I mean, the movements of other Bankais have been controlled by their owners (e.g. SKY, Hihio Zabimaru).

Secondly, on the bridge scene, Yoruichi does get hit. She is later shown spitting up blood though it's not shown in the anime.

Chapter 119, page 19? That wasn't Yoruichi's blood, that was Ichigo's. He was hit in the stomach by Yoruichi in order to be subdued. Yoruichi's clothes weren't torn in the slightest bit.

Thirdly, why is it being assumed that shunko is some type of attack that can beat hundreds of millions of petals?

Shunko can be used as a radial blast of concentrated energy (Ch. 158, p. 14, 17). In the event SKY catches up to her, she can use it Bankai Ichigo style, only it'll be an energy-blast-through-my-arms-and-legs-thing instead of swing-sword-in-all-directions-thing. SKY is fast, but it's particles (as opposed to a solid mass), and a concentrated hit left Ichigo alive and fighting.

(:

The_Irving

07-05-2007, 12:45 PM

Lol you can't just say because you think it would be "logical" his [Komamura's] Bankai can move, it can. I think it's logical for Hitsugaya's Bankai to have infinite, instant, and omni-ranged freezing attacks, but that's not true. The fact is, we've only seen it mimic, and even then only a couple times. In HTS4, it can only copy Komamura's movements, although since it's a game it might be non-canon. If it could move, wouldn't it have made sense to send that to Aizen, then go aorund and flank him, instead of charging in with brute force? I'm not saying he still wouldn't have lost, I'm just saying it'd make sense to do that if he could command his Bankai. He still would've lost :p

sweeter

07-05-2007, 01:51 PM

you can't just say because you think it would be "logical" his [Komamura's] Bankai can move, it can.

Of course. It's only a logical assumption. We'll know for certain when we see Komamura fight with his Bankai again.

I think it's logical for Hitsugaya's Bankai to have infinite, instant, and omni-ranged freezing attacks, but that's not true.

Because the author has already shown that it doesn't, pre-empting logic/speculation to the contrary.

it can only copy Komamura's movements, although since it's a game it might be non-canon.

It mimics Komamura's movements. It's canon (Ch. 148, p. 18-19).

If it could move, wouldn't it have made sense to send that to Aizen, then go aorund and flank him, instead of charging in with brute force?

He felt betrayed. He was angry. He wasn't thinking straight. He went Bankai too late; Aizen's kidou had intercepted him (Ch. 176).

(:

Guy

07-05-2007, 05:02 PM

No. She said, "Don't you think I'm holding back because all I truly want is lesbian sex with you... Yoruichi?" Or something to that effect.

ROFL! You sure know how to lighten the mood.

Chapters 157-159.

Yeah, ok, Soi Fong was holding back a little bit, that I'll admit. However, she didn't seem like she was going easy on Yoruichi either. Plus, didn't Byakuya sort of hesitated in his fight with Ichigo? I remember him saying that Tensa Zangetsu crushed Senbonzakura because Ichigo's resolve was stronger than Byakuya's.

LOL. I know that. But Mayuri's poison is liquid dispersed in gas. Technically, it isn't the gas itself. That would take time for it to be carried to a farther location, where Team SK is. And it won't reach them, cause by that time, the baby with spikes under its chin would be destroyed by the sword-wielding fully-armored 50-story-tall warrior.

Well, if they are just going to run away... then team BM can run to a far distance and use SKY and destroy team SK. That would be pointless now, wouldn't it? Besides, if Byakuya gets screwed over, Mayuri can always escape through his cheap move of liquidizing.

sweeter

07-05-2007, 07:01 PM

Byakuya sort of hesitated in his fight with Ichigo? I remember him saying that Tensa Zangetsu crushed Senbonzakura because Ichigo's resolve was stronger than Byakuya's.

True.

Well, if they are just going to run away... then team BM can run to a far distance and use SKY and destroy team SK

SK won't run away. They'll just stay at a distance long enough for the warrior to destroy the baby. Sure, Byakuya can SKY Team SK for the time being, but there's Soi Fong and her shunko. Once the baby's destroyed, the real action starts.

--
Now, because I'm retarded like that, I'm going to argue for Team BM.

The greatest threat is Mayuri's poison. As said, Komamura's Bankai can take care of it with Team SK at a safe distance.

The strategy, then, should be for Byakuya to use SKY against Komamura, not his Bankai or Soi Fong, so that the giant warrior will cease to be. Now, Soi Fong will definitely have a say in this and attack Byakuya.

However! She can't do so if Byakuya is close to Mayuri and the poison. This is under the assumption that Mayuri will give the antidote to Byakuya afterward, which I did not want to use. Cause it's kind of a cheat code.

(:

Guy

07-05-2007, 07:07 PM

True

Meh, then this leaves for debating about Byakuya's true power, but like I said about Soi Fong's strength, I doubt it would be much stronger.

SK won't run away. They'll just stay at a distance long enough for the warrior to destroy the baby. Sure, Byakuya can SKY Team SK for the time being, but there's Soi Fong and her shunko. Once the baby's destroyed, the real action starts.

Then perhaps team BM should just stay at a safe distance with the Baby spitting fumes at team SK.

Now, because I'm retarded like that, I'm going to argue for Team BM.

The greatest threat is Mayuri's poison. As said, Komamura's Bankai can take care of it with Team SK at a safe distance.

The strategy, then, should be for Byakuya to use SKY against Komamura, not his Bankai or Soi Fong, so that the giant warrior will cease to be. Now, Soi Fong will definitely have a say in this and attack Byakuya.

However! She can't do so if Byakuya is close to Mayuri and the poison. This is under the assumption that Mayuri will give the antidote to Byakuya afterward, which I did not want to use. Cause it's kind of a cheat code.

Lol, arguing against yourself? Lol, you are the weirdest member on cb (in a good way)

sweeter

07-05-2007, 07:15 PM

Then perhaps team BM should just stay at a safe distance with the Baby spitting fumes at team SK.

And Soi Fong will not attack not-enveloped-in-poison-fog-Byakuya, or vice-versa?

you are the weirdest member on cb (in a good way)

My awesome legs compensate for all my weirdness. j/k

(:

7th captin

07-05-2007, 07:54 PM

komamura was angry because he was betrayed by his best friend and went on berserk mode to confront him. if tousen didn't betray him he could have killed aizen from a distance with his bankai but as what it was stated before by sweeterthanchocolate:

He felt betrayed. He was angry. He wasn't thinking straight. He went Bankai too late; Aizen's kidou had intercepted him (Ch. 176).

The_Irving

07-05-2007, 11:55 PM

You guys keep saying that Komamura's Bankai can kill the ugly baby like it would be over in a few seconds, but I'm sure Mayuri would notice a huge-ass warrior coming at him and pull his Bankai back. Plus, (assuming Komamura CAN send his Bankai ahead) without his Bankai, he'd be exposed to SKY. Soi Fon, would probably try to prevent this, but she'd be SKY'd, too. SKY is great because it can split up, surround, and attack from any direction. No offense, but you guys keep looking at this as if it was turn based (I was doing that too for a while).

Klavier Gavin

07-06-2007, 12:54 AM

As mentioned, Komamura's bankai stays behind Komamura and mimic his actions in Bleach HTS 4. Although it's a game, I believe that his bankai would be 1337 if it can just cut down his enemies while Komamura is drinking Starbucks or something.

Until they show more of his bankai, I'm inclined to believe that it's just a giant warrior following Komamura's actions.

You guys keep saying that Komamura's Bankai can kill the ugly baby like it would be over in a few seconds, but I'm sure Mayuri would notice a huge-ass warrior coming at him and pull his Bankai back.

I don't think that Komamura's giant warrior can move on his own. It would make no sense anyway, since his shikai does the same thing. The only difference I can tell between the shikai and bankai is the physical body of the giant appearing.

Well, even if the giant warrior could move, Mayuri's bankai wouldn't be able to react if something the caterpillar already starts charging towards the SK team. There would definitely be a delay before it could retreat. Even if Komamura manages to get rid of the giant caterpillar, it would block his view of Byakuya and Mayuri. This would be where SKY would come in and fly towards the SK team, which would be pretty hard to dodge unless they're really far away, giving time for dodging SKY.

sweeter

07-06-2007, 03:48 AM

Mayuri would notice a huge-ass warrior coming at him and pull his Bankai back.

Then Soi Fong would two-hit sure-kill him, while Byakuya is being occupied with Komamura and his Bankai. And it'll be 2-on-1 on Byakuya.

(assuming Komamura CAN send his Bankai ahead) without his Bankai, he'd be exposed to SKY. Soi Fon, would probably try to prevent this, but she'd be SKY'd, too. SKY is great because it can split up, surround, and attack from any direction.

That'd be pretty hard for Byakuya, having his mind on two opponents at the same time. It'll shorten the time it'll take for Soi Fong to nick him twice. Plus, SKY won't kill Komamura that easily. Ichigo took a concentrated hit from SKY and was still alive and fighting.

(:

Guy

07-06-2007, 04:48 AM

Sweeter, I think you are severely underestimating both Byakuya's and Mayuri's speed. Mayuri is not that slow. He is fast enough to keep up with Ishida's shunpo (Quincy version... was it Hirenkyaku or something?) before he became uber powerful. Mayuri got outrun by Super Ishida, and I doubt even Soi Fong can outrun Super Ishida.

Even if Soi Fong is faster than Byakuya, all Byakuya would have to do is to move 1 cm to the left or right after the first hit, and Suzumebachi's poison won't kill him. Soi Fong is 100000x faster than Byakuya, unlike Bankai Ichigo.

sweeter

07-06-2007, 05:01 AM

He is fast enough to keep up with Ishida's shunpo

Of course that is to be expected. Mayuri is a Captain, Ishida wasn't of that level then.

Mayuri got outrun by Super Ishida, and I doubt even Soi Fong can outrun Super Ishida.

Soi Fong is extremely faster than Mayuri. That's all that matters. So what if she isn't faster than Super Ishida? He isn't her opponent.

Even if Soi Fong is faster than Byakuya, all Byakuya would have to do is to move 1 cm to the left or right after the first hit, and Suzumebachi's poison won't kill him. Soi Fong is 100000x faster than Byakuya, unlike Bankai Ichigo.

Soi Fong'll nick Byakuya again sooner or later. Because she's faster.

(:

Guy

07-06-2007, 05:03 AM

Of course that is to be expected. Mayuri is a Captain.

Yes, obviously... he had ease keeping up with normal Ishida's shunpo.

Soi Fong is extremely faster than Mayuri. That's all that matters. So what if she isn't faster than Super Ishida? He isn't her opponent.

What makes you say that?

Sof Fong'll nick Byakuya again sooner or later. Because she's faster.

(:

Assuming Byakuya just stands there. Byakuya will have enough time to at least chop her arm off. He's not that slow.

sweeter

07-06-2007, 05:10 AM

What makes you say that?

Mayuri isn't known for speed, he's known for his ugly face. Yoruichi is the Goddess of Flash/one-half of Soul Society's former strongest duo (Ch. 195, p. 18), whom Soi Fong kept up with.

Assuming Byakuya just stands there. Byakuya will have enough time to at least chop her arm off. He's not that slow.

Assuming Soi Fong'll just sit on his shoulder. She's faster, she can evade.

(:

Guy

07-06-2007, 05:14 AM

Mayuri isn't known for speed, he's known for his ugly face. Yoruichi is the Goddess of Flash/one-half of Soul Society's former strongest duo (Ch. 195, p. 18), whom Soi Fong kept up with.

It's not Yoruichi here; it's Soi Fong. And frankly, it's just an unofficial title. I'm sure guys like Aizen and Yamamoto are way faster. (I'm convinced bankai Ichigo is) Lol@ugly face part, but really, I think Mr. Ugly Face is faster than you give him credit for.

Assuming Soi Fong'll just sit on his shoulder. She's faster, she can evade.

(:

That's kind of hard when she is so close to Byakuya...

sweeter

07-06-2007, 06:00 AM

I think Mr. Ugly Face is faster than you give him credit for

Nah, he's just cheap. Either way, Soi Fong'll be faster than him by a fair margin, since she kept up with Yoruichi.

That's kind of hard when she is so close to Byakuya...

Byakuya'll have trouble himself. He'll be like, "Shit, it's been ages since a hot girl has been so close to me." Same thing happened with Yoruichi.

(:

diamondedge

07-06-2007, 09:02 AM

komamura was angry because he was betrayed by his best friend and went on berserk mode to confront him. if tousen didn't betray him he could have killed aizen from a distance with his bankai but as what it was stated before by sweeterthanchocolate:

Wow. everyone is allowed to have inner conflicts but Byakuya.
byakuya himself was torn apart inside and fought for something he didn't want to , against someone who trained especially to defeat him, and with raw skill, he would have won if not for Ichigos plotkai. ^^ How is that any less that Komamura's mental problems because of Tousen? If anything, its worse.

I don'0t think with his body Komamura can be THAT fast. He is 300 kg with 288 cm. I HONESTLY DOUBT that Komamura is faster out of any of those 3 in question. Soi and Bya both specialize in speed. mayuri isn't exactly show either. Besides, no one out of four is faster than Byakuya's SKY. ^^

T_Ichigo

07-06-2007, 10:33 AM

I've to agree with the part about KOmamura's mental instability, it is as the way I see it, better to fight with 100% focus, which is something I believe Komamura didn't have, the way he fought was way to impulsive and therefore could have probable resulted in a way it did.

And as for the mass and height, I don't think that mass does matter on the whole :S I mean even a gillian or 2nd grade gillian :S (the one who assault Ishida when his pwnage father came and save him).
And besides, Komamura has shuynpo ... I guess ...

sweeter

07-06-2007, 12:58 PM

no one out of four is faster than Byakuya's SKY. ^^

I'm betting Soi Fong is. She also has Shunko, in the event SKY catches up to her.

Komamura'll be hit with SKY for sure, but he won't go down easily. After all, Ichigo was hit with a concentrated SKY but was still alive and fighting.

(:

The_Irving

07-06-2007, 02:46 PM

Actually, SKY would do more damage if it wasn't concentrated. It's kinda like how you can lay across an entire bed of nails, but not a single one. Since there's more, your body weight is spread out so there's less piercing, but a single one would have all your body weight concentrated on it, so it would go through you. It's sort of the same with SKY, so if he split it up between the two opponents (Soi and Koma), then he'd do more cutting damage. When Ichigo got hit by it, it was mostly a blunt, crushing attack. Plus, he wasn't in Bankai.

sweeter

07-06-2007, 03:11 PM

When Ichigo got hit by it, it was mostly a blunt, crushing attack. Plus, he wasn't in Bankai.

It was Bankai (Ch. 161, p. 12-13). Ichigo was hit by omnidirectionally by a huge amount of SKY. He was completely engulfed in it, but he lived, and even fought afterward.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w189/xsweeterthanchocolatex/161-17.jpg

If that amount of SKY was split up, it would do less damage. SKY is not really nail-like, as in points of metal... It's more like tiny unavoidable sheets of metal.

(:

diamondedge

07-06-2007, 06:04 PM

I'm betting Soi Fong is. She also has Shunko, in the event SKY catches up to her.
Komamura'll be hit with SKY for sure, but he won't go down easily. After all, Ichigo was hit with a concentrated SKY but was still alive and fighting.
(:
While Renji got chopped to pieces. Ichigo was under the main character syndrome IMO. In chapter 142, the destructive force of SKY is shown really really nicely, while controlling it with the mind ONLY. I highly doubt even Komamura would be standing while hit by SKY - after all he dropped dead from single kidou spell, who BTW gave only 1/3 of power. He isn't that tough in my humble opinion. :)

I disagree with Soi being faster than SKY.I don't feel like posting whole crossover theories here, but even Ichigo in BANKAi mode failed to avoid it (going by the MOVEMENT speed mind you, he was forced to knock them down because he wasn't fast enough to escape it.). I doubt Soi is able to do that with Suzumebachi.

Flash Cry - I don't know about the manga, but in anime, flash cry took pretty damn long for it to "activate". Going by Byakuya's inteligence, I'd say he would use that opening and eradicate her with SKY. ^^