Christianity in All its Forms

[Tokoyami]

A user asked for this topic to be made, so here it is

This thread is for postin and talkin about the different forms of christianity. Seeing as there catholic and baptist and many other kinds.

My first question is, what is the Catholic religion? i mean why do they have a pope and stuff, how is he more holy than i?

[justx645]

Catholics in my opinion are way to rigid and legalistic. They also have beliefs that dont' follow scripture, such as praying to saints and purgatory. It's not that the Pope is holier than you, it's that they think he is. ^_^;;

On the other hand there's a ridiculous amount of different denominations.
Amish
Anabaptist
Assemblies of God
Baptists
Calvinism
Christadelphians
Christian Identity
Church Universal and Triumphant
Church of Christ
Church of England
Congregationalism
Coptic Christianity
Eastern Orthodox
Episcopal Church
Ethiopian Christianity
IURD
Lutheran Church
Maronites
Mennonites
Methodism
Old Catholic Movement
Pentecostal Church
People's Temple
Pilgrims
Presbyterian Church
Protestant
Puritanism
Quakers
Roman Catholicism
Shakers
Spiritual Baptists
Thomas Christians
Unification Church
Unitarianism
United Church of Christ
Unitarian Universalist

And coutnless more. I think it's silly that there's so many different denominations. I, personally, am a Biblicist, meaning I believe the Bible and not a specific denomination's doctrine. I prefer Southern Baptist preaching, I prefer Assemblies of God worship. It's all about preference and it's really saddening to know that a lot of denominations have entirely different doctrines.

Catholics are weird because they go more for ceremonialism and hierarchy rather than for faith and evanglism. I prefer a church that preaches the Bible and tries to reach the community with the Gospel of Jesus.

NOTE: Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are not widely accepted as forms of Christianity. Though there are similarities, their doctrines are entirely different, and therefore many people do not call them Christian denominations. They call themselves a denomination of Christianity, though.

[cetamora]

It's that was the Metallica song is all about, Holier than thou, lol

Misa i'm in the pentecostal church, it's good

[Tokoyami]

i guess im a biblicist also then, i dont kno, i always told people im christian, not east orthodox baptist of the 3rd desciphle or w/e. I dont see why you would follow something thats not in the bible like catholics do and still call yourself christian.

I mean i guess that pope was good but, what exactly did he do that was so great? besides wander around from country to country and look old?

(which is all i saw him do, but im sure theres more to it than that ( 8 )

EDIT: i apologize if i seem rude, what i mean to say is, why do catholics have such a high beleif in the pope?

[Sahiden]

Unfortunately, I with my own personal beliefs, don't fit in any of the named religions.

[Pipp-ORK]

I'm a catholic, and personally, I think the current pope is nothing more than a dictator. People need someone other than a deity to look up to, and so they really don't give a damn about who it is.

I also find it a little strange that when the previous pope was buried in a wooden coffin, everyone was making such a big deal out of it. "It moved me to tears when I saw that the pope had been buried in such a plain, wooden coffin..". These people need to consider that he was incredibly rich. Who cares how he was buried. He had a load of money when he was alive, and where did it go? Not where it was needed. >_<

[cetamora]

Yea misa don't get the pope and many other things about catholic, If it isn't in the bible why why then come up with own rules isn't that wrong or somthin dunno realy

[Nomadic Dragon]

NOTE: Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are not widely accepted as forms of Christianity. Though there are similarities, their doctrines are entirely different, and therefore many people do not call them Christian denominations. They call themselves a denomination of Christianity, though.

I don't know is I should be offended by this, or just assume that you are misinformed. I am a Mormon myself, and I don't see how our religion is that much different than other christian faiths. We believe in Jesus Christ, God and the Holy Ghost. We believe in the Bible as long as it is translated correctly. You can find out more here (www.lds.org)

[Pipp-ORK]

Yea misa don't get the pope and many other things about catholic, If it isn't in the bible why why then come up with own rules isn't that wrong or somthin dunno realy
I dunno, they keep making things complicated. I think they took a lot of stuff out of the bible to make it appeal to today's society, and now they're making up all kinds of random crap. Like the whole Iraq thing; it's just for the oil.

[cetamora]

I don't know is I should be offended by this, or just assume that you are misinformed. I am a Mormon myself, and I don't see how our religion is that much different than other christian faiths. We believe in Jesus Christ, God and the Holy Ghost. We believe in the Bible as long as it is translated correctly. You can find out more here (www.lds.org)

You are sooooooooooooooooo gonna hate me 4 this joke you moron

[Nomadic Dragon]

You are sooooooooooooooooo gonna hate me 4 this joke you moron

Are you calling me a moron? or is just a misspelling but by looking at the sentence it looks like you are calling me a moron, well if you are lowest worm I have ever met, to discrimate against someone by what the believe in is the same as if by race or gender, if you want to insult me then pm me.

[Pipp-ORK]

What joke? O_O I don't think you should post it if it's making fun of someone and/or their religion..

[cetamora]

Hey, moron mormon It's a great joke.

I don't hate you I don't despise you or anything. I don't have any problem with your religion it's great actually.

I didn't wanna insult or hurt anyone just laugh. Well you gotto laugh at yourself.

[Nomadic Dragon]

Well I don't treat my religion as a joke and I would never joke about you religion, and the way you said it mad it seem like an insult, so don't do it again.

[sinkinswimmer]

I don't know is I should be offended by this, or just assume that you are misinformed. I am a Mormon myself, and I don't see how our religion is that much different than other christian faiths. We believe in Jesus Christ, God and the Holy Ghost. We believe in the Bible as long as it is translated correctly. You can find out more here (www.lds.org)

The Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants are not canonized. Neither is the Pearl of Great Price. Since LDS also uses these to teach and support their beliefs, many other Christians do not view Mormonism to be a Christian denomination. The Mormon church uses the phrase "as long as it is translated correctly" to justify their use of outside texts in addition to the Bible as holy scripture. Or should I just say that Joseph Smith was a false prophet? Cause you know, it only takes one failed prophecy to be a fake.

The answer may not be pretty. But there it is. Believe what you choose, but if you call me an "anti" I will not respond in a very friendly manner. Call it fair warning.

[Nomadic Dragon]

You have you head stuck so far up you butt that it's in your stomach, I was trying to be nice but it is people like you that make me sick. If you would actually look with an unbiased mind you would see that our beliefs are not much different than other Christian denominations, but I think you like to look at your own stomach.

[cetamora]

lol I joke and everyone gets rofltao-mad the thread got very hostile just now and I hate to say it but I guess sinkinswimmer is right. Waaa no anthrax letters plaese

[justx645]

I don't know is I should be offended by this, or just assume that you are misinformed. I am a Mormon myself, and I don't see how our religion is that much different than other christian faiths. We believe in Jesus Christ, God and the Holy Ghost. We believe in the Bible as long as it is translated correctly. You can find out more here (www.lds.org)

I am afraid that I'm not misinformed...I know the Mormon belief, and the Jesus you believe is not the same one I believe in. You think he's Satan's brother, I think he's one part of the three, which is God, Jesus, and the Spirit. You believe in three heavens, one of which puts you higher than God and Jesus...so I'm thinking that we have extremely different beliefs.

I have good friends who are Mormons and you people are some of the nicest on earth, but just because you say you believe in Jesus and the "correctly translated scriptures" doens't make you a Christian. I think my buddy a few posts up could have been a little nicer but hey I agree with him.

[Nomadic Dragon]

Here are the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or Mormons

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2.We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

3.We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4.We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5.We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6.We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7.We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8.We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
This one is what people are fussing about, It means that as long as the translation is correct, as in no errors, we believe it to be the word of God. We also believe that the book of Mormon is also the word of God.

9.We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10.We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon this the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11.We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13.We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

[Tokoyami]

I am afraid that I'm not misinformed...I know the Mormon belief, and the Jesus you believe is not the same one I believe in. You think he's Satan's brother, I think he's one part of the three, which is God, Jesus, and the Spirit. You believe in three heavens, one of which puts you higher than God and Jesus...so I'm thinking that we have extremely different beliefs.

I have good friends who are Mormons and you people are some of the nicest on earth, but just because you say you believe in Jesus and the "correctly translated scriptures" doens't make you a Christian. I think my buddy a few posts up could have been a little nicer but hey I agree with him.

LMAO jesus being satan's bro? are you serious? i dont kno if mormons or anyother religion beleives so but who ever made that up didnt quite think things through.

This book of mormons, where did it come from? ive never heard of it, im interested to learn its orgins (seriously, im not being sarcastic just to note)

[justx645]

Mormons also believe that Joseph Smith is a divine prophet, even though in countless places the book of Mormon directly contradicts the Bible. There have been revisions to the Book of Mormon. There has never been a revision of the Bible, only a translation. The NIV, the NKJV, and the NASB translations of the Bible were translated directly from the original text by scholars who were coated in prayer as they did so. I agree that some translations of the Bible (specifically those done for pure profit like the NLV and the NAV) should come into question, but at the same time it's still God's Word and I don't think He would let His word get reduced to a heap of crap.

There are many other books that deal with Mormonism, and most of them were written by Mormon leaders. Mormons believe that you can marry in heaven, Christ says in the book of John that NONE will be given unto marriage in heaven. The Mormons believe in three heavens, one of which you are a God of your own realm. God said that there should NEVER be any Gods above him, and if you're aspiring to be a god you're putting yourself above Him.

You believe what you want, buddy. I'm just saying that your belief in scriptures is flawed because of your belief in the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith, in my opinion, should have done his research before telling everyone that the Bible and the Book of Mormon go together. They directy contradict each other and the Law of Non-contradiction says that one of them has to be wrong. They can't both be true.

So if they can't both be true if they contradict each other, which would you rather believe? The Bible, or the book based (loosely) off the teachings of the Bible? If you say the Bible is wrong you are saying by deduction that the Book of Mormon is wrong. So either the Bible is right or it's all one big lie.

[Nomadic Dragon]

Thank you Tokoyami, the one nice person I have seen in this entire thread. We believe that we all had a premortal existance where we were all children of god, and that Jesus is our elder brother, the only begotten son of God. We do believe that Satan and those who fell with him were our spirit brothers and sisters. If you want to know more that I would suggest going to www.lds.org where all your questions can be answered.

[sinkinswimmer]

You have you head stuck so far up you butt that it's in your stomach, I was trying to be nice but it is people like you that make me sick. If you would actually look with an unbiased mind you would see that our beliefs are not much different than other Christian denominations, but I think you like to look at your own stomach.

It's not that your MORALS vary much from Christian morals but your BELIEFS do. So now, I'm gonna pull the stick out of my ass and beat you with it.

I warned you! But did you listen to me? Oh no, no, it's just a harmless bunny isn't it? Head up my ass. Yeah right. Why don't you explain the stuff you believe that is NOWHERE to be found in the Bible? Like the Keys to Heaven, and the differences between the Terrestrial, Celestial and Divine after lifes? Or how about you go into detail about how you need to marry inside the temple if you want any hopes of attaining your OWN divinity and your OWN planet and garden? How about you tell us about our pre-mortal existence in Heaven? Why don't you enlilghten us to the rest of your beliefs? So maybe I can pull my head out of my ass next.

[justx645]

Calm down sinkinswimmer. You're not going to change someone's mind with aggressiveness like that man. I agree whole heartedly with you, though. And my post above is towards nomadic as well.

[Nomadic Dragon]

I did you moron, I actually posted the link two times, but I see this as a lost cause, but next time you see to insult a relgion or a person it would be better to be better to informed about what you are talking about. We don't believe is three heavens but three degrees and where you go depends on how you acted in life. We believe that marriage in the temple is an enternal marriage, not a 'until death to you part'. You can read more if you go to www.lds.org.

[sinkinswimmer]

Calm down sinkinswimmer. You're not going to change someone's mind with aggressiveness like that man. I agree whole heartedly with you, though. And my post above is towards nomadic as well.


The answer may not be pretty. But there it is. Believe what you choose, but if you call me an "anti" I will not respond in a very friendly manner. Call it fair warning.

I stand by my warning.

I did you moron, I actually posted the link two times, but I see this as a lost cause, but next time you see to insult a relgion or a person it would be better to be better to informed about what you are talking about. We don't believe is three heavens but three degrees and where you go depends on how you acted in life. We believe that marriage in the temple is an enternal marriage, not a 'until death to you part'. You can read more if you go to www.lds.org.
I'm not ignorant. You're a fool for feeding the flames and continuing to antagonize me. I have many close friends who are Mormon and we accept our differences in beliefs. UNLIKE YOU, they don't say I have my head stuck up my ass when I make comments like my initial one. So why don't you quit being an over sensitive prick and get over it?

[justx645]

Mathew 22:23-30 That same day the Sdducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him (Jesus) with a question. "Teacher," they said, "Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have the children for him. Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right down to the seventh. Finally, the woman died. Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of the were married to her?"
Jesus replied. "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage, they will be like the angels in heaven."

As I said, direct contradiction.

[Nomadic Dragon]

I think I have every right to defend my religion when you insult it like you would if someone insulted your religion. I was justing trying to tell you what you think is the truth about my religion isn't true. oh and last time I checked when you are in heaven you aren't resurrected so I don't see a contridiction.

[justx645]

you never answered my question, nomadic, if the Bible and Book of Mormon contradict each other, which is right? Look at the verses of the Bible i put above. It directly contradicts your beliefs of eternal marriage.

[Tokoyami]

I stand by my warning.


I'm not ignorant. You're a fool for feeding the flames and continuing to antagonize me. I have many close friends who are Mormon and we accept our differences in beliefs. UNLIKE YOU, they don't say I have my head stuck up my ass when I make comments like my initial one. So why don't you quit being an over sensitive prick and get over it?

haha, well its true guys, he did give a warning.

Moron....mormon....ha, i get it now, but its not polite or nice to say, so dont ever make a joke like that again........

No marrige in heaven.........( -_-) hm........( o_o) does that mean no sex!?!??!??!!?!?

hm, from what ive heard in this forum the book or mormon does contridict the bible, which i dont like, so i cannot beleive in something that contridicts the bible. I wanna do some research, find out where the idea of three degrees of heaven came from. All this is interesting, i didnt kno the mormon version of christianity was so interesting. i have one major question tho, Joseph Smith, who exactly was he?

[sinkinswimmer]

I think I have every right to defend my religion when you insult it like you would if someone insulted your religion. I was justing trying to tell you what you think is the truth about my religion isn't true. oh and last time I checked when you are in heaven you aren't resurrected so I don't see a contridiction.

Then perhaps it would have been best to say so in the first place as opposed to telling me off. Just a thought. :sad:

[Nomadic Dragon]

I edited and answered it, it was put up as I was replying, but I give up trying to tell you that you are wrong about my religion.

[hasuke]

This is why religious "debates" are flawed. They downgrade into retarded "I'M RITE AND UR RONG" flame wars.

So you don't agree with his religion? Maturely state why. This is a debate thread, not a godamn elementary school playground.

Also, I don't really care about religious debates and crap. But Mormon stuff classifies as christianity. Same ideals with differences here and there.

By your flawed logic, Catholicism (which is considered a form of Christianity or like Christianity) is not a form of Christianity.

The Catholic church breaks a prime rule by editing the bible as they see fit. God stated "Do not add to or remove from my word" or something along those lines.

[justx645]

Joseph Smith was a guy who claimed to recieve a revelation from God on some weird tablets. He found them and translated them and that's where the Book of Mormon came from. The book of Mormon has since been revised and changed and added onto. Joseph Smith was shot by a mob of his own followers.

[sinkinswimmer]

This is why religious "debates" are flawed. They downgrade into retarded "I'M RITE AND UR RONG" flame wars.

So you don't agree with his religion? Maturely state why. This is a debate thread, not a godamn elementary school playground.



The Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants are not canonized. Neither is the Pearl of Great Price. Since LDS also uses these to teach and support their beliefs, many other Christians do not view Mormonism to be a Christian denomination. The Mormon church uses the phrase "as long as it is translated correctly" to justify their use of outside texts in addition to the Bible as holy scripture. Or should I just say that Joseph Smith was a false prophet? Cause you know, it only takes one failed prophecy to be a fake.

The answer may not be pretty. But there it is. Believe what you choose, but if you call me an "anti" I will not respond in a very friendly manner. Call it fair warning.

And show a little more respect when you use God. You ARE in a Christianity thread after all.

[Nomadic Dragon]

Joseph Smith was a guy who claimed to recieve a revelation from God on some weird tablets. He found them and translated them and that's where the Book of Mormon came from. The book of Mormon has since been revised and changed and added onto. Joseph Smith was shot by a mob of his own followers.

The Book of Mormon hasn't been change, other texts such as the Pearl of Great Price, but they aren't the book of Mormon but have lumped into one book so that you don't have to carry around three seperate books, most copys don't even have the Pearl of Great Price in it. Joseph Smith wasn't kill by a mob of his own followers by the way.

[justx645]

At the resurrection Paul says in I Thessalonians 4:16-17:
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

This is the resurrection which is taking us to heaven and "the dead in Christ" who are already present with God are raised up in glorified bodies first. In that heaven there will be no marriage.

[hasuke]

And show a little more respect when you use God. You ARE in a Christianity thread after all. <--- Says the man doing exactly what his God tells him not to do. Christians aren't supposed to hate other people or insult them for their beleifs. Christians are supposed to love others, and try to help them. At least, thats what I was taught.

[sinkinswimmer]

As far as Catholicism goes, they use some apocrypha in their Bible. They don't edit the Bible as they see fit. They have books in the Old Testament of indeterminate verifiability. When the protestant reformation came around, the protestant religions removed that apocrypha from the Old Testament. The OT is based of the Jewish Tenach, and is the same with the exception of the order in which the books appear. The Greeks who Translated the Tenach for the OT added extra text that they thought were divinely inspired. The protestants removed these extra texts while the Catholics did not. Those texts removed from the OT by the protestants are known as apocrypha.

And show a little more respect when you use God. You ARE in a Christianity thread after all. <--- Says the man doing exactly what his God tells him not to do. Christians aren't supposed to hate other people or insult them for their beleifs. Christians are supposed to love others, and try to help them. At least, thats what I was taught.

And I was also taught that people aren't perfect and that's why we need a savior. So one of my many flaws happens to be a short fuse when engaged in religious debates? So shoot me. I didn't fling the first insults, but I should've turned the other cheek. Happy?

[Nomadic Dragon]

In the scriptures you mention, it says nothing about marriage in heaven, but does talk about the second coming and the resurrection, and also that didn't say anything about no marriage and also about the ruling thing said earlier here is Revelation chapter 20 verse 6, KJV
"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years"

[ssjharsh]

wow... well, that was interesting... All I wanted was to ask a few questions about the cruxifiction of Christ
A while back, when I was bored and just surfing online, I came across a tale which I have never heard of before... the idea that Christ did not die on the cross, but simply fainted. He was later removed by some of his followers, and lived out the rest of his life in Kashmir, India. There were alot of sites that gave this account, especially Islamic sites...
http://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm
that is one a came across witha quick google search

what do you make of that? Also, before flaming on me, I am not Christian, and so please be kind, I really do not know much about Christianity.

And one more question, I have heard/read that the Bible as per the Catholic Church is a book written after Christ, and serves the purposes of the Church, however there are many other books and tales in Christianity which have been left out, because they hurt the ideas the Church was trying to convey. For example, there is an ancient group of christians in India, who were around very early, called the Nasrani or the Nazarathenes. Their ideas are pretty different than most others ( I dunno much but I know they are different) Any one know more?

[justx645]

Well the idea that Jesus could have just fainted is kinda silly, because the man was stabbed in the side with a spear as well. If he survived that, then he would have had to survive bleeding inside of a cold tomb for three days before coming out of it. On top of all of that he would have had to move the stone covering the tomb and gotten past the guards, who were ready to kill at any moment.

Christ died on that cross and according to the Bible he resurrected. Now as for the Catholic church just making the Bible up? No way! We have documents that the Bible is compiled of that trace back to thousands of years ago. And if the Catholic church made it all up, then why do the Jews (who well outdate the catholics) believe in some of the same teachings? The Catholic church is known for a lot, and a lot of negative things at that, but making up the Bible isn't one of them. If anything the Catholics ADDED to the Bible to conform it to their beliefs.

[Polygon]

I don't beleave in the fainting thing. Interesting thing is that in the Quran it says that Jesus was never actually cruxified, but that God took Jesus to heaven before hand. The roman's are said to have cruxified a man who looked remarkabley like him.

[justx645]

Another thing is this: When people set out to destroy something, any stretch will please them. I looked at the site you offered and the words "it can be assumed" and "this could mean" and "according to legend/tradition" showed up quite a bit. I prefer things that are straight and layed out. Not infered.

[ssjharsh]

hmmm. good points, but about the the fact that Jesus was stabbed with a spear.... he is supposed to be the son of god, would it be that wierd if there was a miracle? As for staying entombed for days, I think the legend goes that his mother and several of his followers freed him the first night. Furthermore, there seems to be an accepted, yet controversial, idea that Jesus, during his missing years, spent a great deal of time in Nepal and India, gaining the name St. Issa. If he were to have been freed, there is a good chance that he would have fled to there, and in a village near Sri Nagar, Kashmir there is a tomb, which has Yuz Asaf (translated as "Jesus the Gatherer") written on it. In fact it has a website (that I only took a cursory look at) http://www.tombofjesus.com/Welcomeall.htm

Also, for the point on the RC Church. I am not saying the made up things, but much of what is now considered as the bible was written over a century after Jesus died. In addition, the apostles had also passed away, leaving no primary sources in the creation of the church. Of course, the Bible is not made up, but when any organization is creating a book or any anything for that matter, there are things that are left out because they may hinder the point that the book is trying to get to. For example, the recent discussions over the position of Mary Magdeline in the life of Jesus. Finally, as for stretching, its true they may sound like they are stretching, but when you are talking about a new theory, which is still under investigation, you cannot assign certainty if certainty is not yet been determined.

[justx645]

The Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John were all written by apostles. The book of Acts was written by Luke and then the majority of the new testament was written by Paul, with the leftover parts written by Peter, James, and Jude. All these people lived during the time of Christ. The bible wasn't written on hand me downs.
Your claims of Jesus living in Kashmir, THOSE are written years and years afterwards. Especially when people today infer these things off of other scholar's writings which were infered off of legends and traditions.

The Gospels are straight from the horse's mouth, so to say.

[sinkinswimmer]

Just to add to justx645's point, but most of the books in the New Testament were written by Paul the apostle. John the Baptist wrote quite a few as well.

Sounds to me like you're trying to reference the DaVinci Code when you speak about Mary Magdalene's relationship with Christ. If that happens to be the case, I should hope you know that the DaVinci Code is fiction. " Overall, it is impossible to overstate the degree to which The Da Vinci Code departs from historical fact and rationality." ~Wikipedia.

[Sahiden]

Sigh...
Now how to tell them that all of this is pretty pointless...

1) You are defending a Bible, and in both beliefs it has been altered. (The Catholic Bible has been censored by the Catholic church.)
The Original Bible, doesn't even exist anymore.

2) Flaming is pretty obsolete, and show why religion causes war and should be banned throughout the world.

3) Why is everyone forgetting that most of the Biblical texts aren't writtin in a literal way.

[cetamora]

yea the funniest thing about the davinci code is that there was written a almost exactly
the same book as it in the 70s. And the writers to that one say they all made it up and JB say that it's true when most of the "fact" was copied directly from a fiction-book^^

[Sahiden]

The Da Vinci code took a religious question, one of the ones that the Church is ignoring. And wrote an own vision on it... It's called fiction. But if so: Isn't every theory, fiction...

[sinkinswimmer]

Sigh...
Now how to tell them that all of this is pretty pointless...

1) You are defending a Bible, and in both beliefs it has been altered. (The Catholic Bible has been censored by the Catholic church.)
The Original Bible, doesn't even exist anymore.

2) Flaming is pretty obsolete, and show why religion causes war and should be banned throughout the world.

3) Why is everyone forgetting that most of the Biblical texts aren't writtin in a literal way.

1) I'm not sure what you mean. The septuagint is the "original" Bible and is still in use by the Greek Orthodox church... But they added apocrypha that they felt were divinely inspired, but the Catholics dissented and removed some of the apocrypha. The protestants during the reformation removed the remaining apocrypha. The OT is the original Hebrew Tenach. The New Testament is where the best bet to criticize and attack the Bible is... Seeing as how it was written mostly by apostles.

2) Uh... yeah... sorry.

3) True. A LOT of the Bible is written metaphorically, or as parables. A lot of stories are written to illustrate points, but I don't think it means that none of it is written literally.

[Sahiden]

Some things did really happen, but are written down in a totally diffirent way.

Most of the Bible is about how people should lead their lives in order to preserve peace, harmony and happiness. It really handles very little about God, afterlife or anything close to that. (Though it doesn't look that way)

So if anyone, would be able to see the true meaning in all of the stories, and all the people would live the way that is described, then war would be unexistant.
Unfortunaltely... Most of the Bible is still one big riddle to scientists.

[cetamora]

Unfortunaltely... Most of the Bible is still one big riddle to scientists.

Why is that unfortunate, Do you have to know everything???

Most people atleast thinks of the bible as a 1000pages thick rulebook. With only demands that you have to accomplish or you will rotten in hell. But the thing is that most of it tells how people lived their lives and failed and succeded but the fact that they did it with god saved them. And maybe I'm talking 4 already salvated people here but you can discuss wether or not this or that should have been in the book but if it isn't in there it is it 4 some reason and as sombody said earlier if one thing is false everything is false. So I don't think there's a point in arguing if that part is wrong or that should be in it cuz if you belivie it is true what is said in the bible all of it is true and everything else is false. No in-betweens.

[Sahiden]

Why is that unfortunate, Do you have to know everything???

Most people atleast thinks of the bible as a 1000pages thick rulebook. With only demands that you have to accomplish or you will rotten in hell. But the thing is that most of it tells how people lived their lives and failed and succeded but the fact that they did it with god saved them. And maybe I'm talking 4 already salvated people here but you can discuss wether or not this or that should have been in the book but if it isn't in there it is it 4 some reason and as sombody said earlier if one thing is false everything is false. So I don't think there's a point in arguing if that part is wrong or that should be in it cuz if you belivie it is true what is said in the bible all of it is true and everything else is false. No in-betweens.

Nope, that isn't written in the Bible. That's just the C. Church kind of talk.

[cetamora]

what do you mean by nope duh can't reply if you ain't explain whats nope

[Tokoyami]

Why is that unfortunate, Do you have to know everything???

Most people atleast thinks of the bible as a 1000pages thick rulebook. With only demands that you have to accomplish or you will rotten in hell. But the thing is that most of it tells how people lived their lives and failed and succeded but the fact that they did it with god saved them. And maybe I'm talking 4 already salvated people here but you can discuss wether or not this or that should have been in the book but if it isn't in there it is it 4 some reason and as sombody said earlier if one thing is false everything is false. So I don't think there's a point in arguing if that part is wrong or that should be in it cuz if you belivie it is true what is said in the bible all of it is true and everything else is false. No in-betweens.

woah man.......one thing is false everything is false? no ever said that.

What was said is that if the book of mormon was based on the bible, and the bible is false, then the book or mormon is false. But enough of that, the mormon subject is over.

"what is said in the bible all of it is true and everything else is false."

Not true, the theory of evolution is true, u can see evolution happen like that, but thats for another thread.

[justx645]

Sorry Tokoyami, but the theory of evolution is a theory, not a fact. You can see "evolution" through diversification, though. But evolution as in we all came from single-celled organisms isn't even logical. There has never been one time that a mammal has become a reptile or vice-versa. Punctuated Equilibrium, oil deposits, fossilization...a lot of stuff that science comes up with is just based off of inference and probable theories.

Sadly I have to say the same for my own beliefs, creation and all. But if people would actually do research...there's a LOT of scientific fact that proves creation as well.

[Polygon]

You know what's weird? I'm notmaking this up I swear.
I just now read an exerpt from the Quran in an eniglish translation. these quotes are directly from the quran.


" We created man from an extract of clay. Then we made him as a drop in a place of settlment firmly fixed. Then we made the drop into an alaqah ( Arabic word for either leech, suspended thing or blood clot) then we made the alaqah into a mudghah ( chewed-like substance) "

Now the embryo in the beggining stage look's remarkabley like a leech. This is metaphorical of course, but it explains some of the embrological devolapment quite well for it's time. I just find this really interesting.

[Sandal Hat]

Who is it saying created man? How can man create man if there aren't any men to created them? Sorry if i sound stupid but i know nothing about eh Quran so maybe someone could help me out here

[Polygon]

Who is it saying created man? How can man create man if there aren't any men to created them? Sorry if i sound stupid but i know nothing about eh Quran so maybe someone could help me out here

It is saying God did, since all the quran is in God's words. This is not to be taken seriously, just thought it was interestiing. I have no clue about the WE though.

[Sandal Hat]

It is saying God did, since all the quran is in God's words. This is not to be taken seriously, just thought it was interestiing. I have no clue about the WE though.

I think it might be referring to Angels which sounds like it might make sense

[Polygon]

I think it might be referring to Angels which sounds like it might make sense

It's either that or something with the translation.

[Tokoyami]

Sorry Tokoyami, but the theory of evolution is a theory, not a fact. You can see "evolution" through diversification, though. But evolution as in we all came from single-celled organisms isn't even logical. There has never been one time that a mammal has become a reptile or vice-versa. Punctuated Equilibrium, oil deposits, fossilization...a lot of stuff that science comes up with is just based off of inference and probable theories.

Sadly I have to say the same for my own beliefs, creation and all. But if people would actually do research...there's a LOT of scientific fact that proves creation as well.
lol, no a mammal has never become a reptile, they arent from the same bloodline. But saying that we all came from one celled organisms, thats not what evolutions says, its what it makes us conclude. You can see evolution happen easily, and if people would actually do research...there's a LOT of scientific fact that proves evolution as well. But i shouldnt be talkin about this, i'll make a topic about it later, i wasnt satisfied with the evolution topic i made before :winking56

The Quran, what is it about, its for muslims right? How is it different from the bible?

[ssjharsh]

To add to Tokoyami's response... It is important to realize that the term "theory" means something very different in scientific terms than in normal, daily use. Normally, a theory is an idea or possible solution to a problem or question. However, in science terminology this would be called a hypothesis. A theory, on the other hand, is a well-supported explanation of why something occurs. Like when you explain what is occuring, in science, it is called a "law" (Law of Gravity... it just states that things fall down on Earth, but does not tell why). A theory would be an explanation, which has been tested many times over and always remained true. Therefore, you can't really say that evolution is just a theory, not fact, because the word theory almost equates to fact in science. Also, the pt about mammals and reptiles... there is some proof about an animal which is thought to have leathery skin and be about the size of a large dog,, but simply because the link has not been found, does not mean it did not exist; we just are still searching. On the other hand, there has been a pretty strong reptile-bird link, thru dinosaurs.

Back to the topic... The Quran is the Muslim Holy Book, which derives much from Judaism and Christianity. All three religions follow the same God, under different names, in Islam the word is Allah. The Islamic faith, like Christianity states that redemption is only based on your devotion to God, not upon your deeds in life. They follow the same commandments and laws, however the difference lies not so much in practice but in thought. In Christianity, Jesus Christ is the Savior of man, son of God, and in the holy trinity. However, in Islam, Jesus (or in Arabic Issa) is not Son of God, but son of man, who is a prophet of God, in a long line of prophets, going back to Abraham. The Quran does talk about Jesus alot, and respects him greatly as a man of miracles, whose powers were derived from God, and that Jesus was a righteous and holy man who did God's work. However, they reject that Jesus was anything other than man, and the notion that God requires blood to spill in order to forgive humanity. Rather, they believe God is forgiving and all-knowing, therefore he knows are weaknesses and sins. In the Quran, there is no trinity, because Islam is strictly monotheistic, and the idea of 3 is considered incorrect. Rather there is only one.
I got alot of my info from http://islam.about.com/cs/faith/a/bl_jesus.htm
Also, check out google or wikipedia. The interplay between Judaism, Christianity and Islam is remarkably interesting, and yet ironic, since they all consider themselves followers of the same God, and all pray to Him, yet b/t those three religions there has been constant warring thru history, more so than any other religions. Its like they are fighting for their God, against their God.

[Sahiden]

I disagree upon your definition of Theory, hypothesis and fact...
Theory is the first stage: Some idea, a mechanism that might work, but yet has to be proven that it works exactly as it was theorised.

A hypothesis would be the second stage: It's a theory that is very likely to be true, but with the current human mind and ability it's impossible to prove it.(Like: the absolute limit of speed is lightspeed. Humans can't prove it, because nothing we ever tried made it to lightspeed. (close but not exaclty the speed of light.))

A fact is a theory or hypothesis that has been proven over and over, and is true (in the 3D physical realm of the living, as we can't experiment with other possible dimensions/realms).


This definition should be more accurate... I learned it like this at school... A long time ago. (I think, my memory can be wrong...)

[ssjharsh]

I think you have it backwards.. I wasn't really giving my opinion so much as I was simply stating a defintion:

"In various sciences, a theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a certain natural or social phenomenon, thus either originating from observable facts or supported by them (see scientific method). In this sense, a theory is a systematic and formalized expression of all previous observations made that is predictive, testable, and has never been falisfied." - Wikipedia

"a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <wave theory of light>" - Merriam-Webster Defintion 5 (look up the rest, they refer to the more common definition)

"A hypothesis (assumption in ancient Greek) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon. A scientific hypotheses must be testable and based on previous observations or extensions to scientific theories ." -Wikipedia

" a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences"- Merriam-Webster defintion 2 for hypothesis

"HYPOTHESIS, THEORY, LAW mean a formula derived by inference from scientific data that explains a principle operating in nature. HYPOTHESIS implies insufficient evidence to provide more than a tentative explanation <a hypothesis explaining the extinction of the dinosaurs>. THEORY implies a greater range of evidence and greater likelihood of truth <the theory of evolution>. LAW implies a statement of order and relation in nature that has been found to be invariable under the same conditions <the law of gravitation>."- Merriam Webster (look up hypothesis)

[Tokoyami]

I disagree upon your definition of Theory, hypothesis and fact...
Theory is the first stage: Some idea, a mechanism that might work, but yet has to be proven that it works exactly as it was theorised.

A hypothesis would be the second stage: It's a theory that is very likely to be true, but with the current human mind and ability it's impossible to prove it.(Like: the absolute limit of speed is lightspeed. Humans can't prove it, because nothing we ever tried made it to lightspeed. (close but not exaclty the speed of light.))

A fact is a theory or hypothesis that has been proven over and over, and is true (in the 3D physical realm of the living, as we can't experiment with other possible dimensions/realms).


This definition should be more accurate... I learned it like this at school... A long time ago. (I think, my memory can be wrong...)


ssjharsh is right in his definitions.

But yours i think u just concluded based on assumptions and not on facts.

[Sahiden]

Woops, seems like I was seriously confused there.
I hope that wasn't too disturbing. I get confused once in a while... I might say something stupid if that happens.

[cetamora]

Not true, the theory of evolution is true, u can see evolution happen like that, but thats for another thread.


Well this is reeeeeealy late to reply this but. It doesn't say anywhere that ther isn't something called eveloutiontheory. That is something that is invented waaaaaaaaay much later (as you know). evoulution itself is pretty naturaly. I mean if you skate and can make a 180 and everyone goes wohaa and then someone invents 360 it's obvious that it is 360 that is the new standard (sry 4 the extremly stupid explanation but you get it right). If somethings better than somehting else, why keep the bad. Thats progress. But to change from microbe to human because of slightly differences is silly. Just becaus some theory is relevant when you're analyzing some facts it may not be right 4 all occasions.

[ssjharsh]

Well this is reeeeeealy late to reply this but. It doesn't say anywhere that ther isn't something called eveloutiontheory. That is something that is invented waaaaaaaaay much later (as you know). evoulution itself is pretty naturaly. I mean if you skate and can make a 180 and everyone goes wohaa and then someone invents 360 it's obvious that it is 360 that is the new standard (sry 4 the extremly stupid explanation but you get it right). If somethings better than somehting else, why keep the bad. Thats progress. But to change from microbe to human because of slightly differences is silly. Just becaus some theory is relevant when you're analyzing some facts it may not be right 4 all occasions.


umm... yea, I dont get it... could u re-explain what you are trying to say? What does the skating analogy have to do with a theory not being relevant for all occasions? And what is the thing about changing from microbe to human being silly? Sorry... i am just lost :eek13:

[grif88]

I understand what he meant with his skating analogy, it was just a very simple way of describing evolution. But if you think about it, if we came from some one-celled organism or from a monkey then why are there no monkeys and organisms still evolving today into human beings? And back to the whole thing about different religions and how some contradict or tell the past with a different view, we sometimes offten forget that even though one might be wrong or one may seem better then another, we serve 1 God, and even though there is jesus and the holy spirit and some may call it the trinity, they are all still one in the same, and we believe in his truth, that our lives are to be lived for others and not ourselves and until all can live that way, wars,crimes,murders, and all else will continue unitil God comes back and shows us his true love and mercy and forgiveness for all of mankinds transgressions then and only then will true peace be found.

[Pharcyde]

I dont know where i fit on that list, but personally dont care. I live by the teachings, and trust in God's decisions, whatever else happens happens

[cetamora]

Yokkata, you understood. Well I think that to, if you just live by what feels best in your heart (cuz you often feel when something is wrong) you will make it. This fanatic thing is overrated, live by you heart is better. Cuz if you get fanatic over something you often forget the ideal and do stuff that you know are wrong and hide behind the purpose

[ssjharsh]

Please, I don't mean to be bossy, but please, stay away from the topic of evolution... i m soo close to just going on an explosive rant...if you want to talk about evolution, we can always just repost the topic... but then there is no stopping me

In any case, I do agree with Phaycyde and Cetamora, that it is best to live by what you feel is right and wrong in your heart. However, I think it is important to see other people's perspective to better understand yours. Like even though we say that it is what our heart feels, it is usually what societal norms of the culture that we live in expect us to feel. For example, I am Hindu and the idea of eating meat disgusts and repulses me. The thought of killing even the smallest creature is murder, because in Hinduism souls are not only for humanity but for anything which is alive. Of course, I cannot force others to change the way they live, but that does not change how I feel. I am sure that many of you would not feel so terrible at the thought of the death of a chicken or a pig or a cow, as I do. However, by discussing topics beyond my view of the world lets me be able to live with people who live differently, without taking up arms with ELF or something.

[Pharcyde]

well then allow me to just state my view of evolution, a major world changing event happens every 250 million years, such as a fish crawling on to land, this happened 6 or7 times i cant remember, but it lines up slightly with genesis, creatures of the sea to lizard, to birds, to mammals, then human. I believe the jewish point of view states that God breathed life into man, i.e. giving him a soul. I dont know my pos. yet but the physical body may have come through evolution.

[mistified]

As far as the original topic goes, I'm non donominational. I took Latin several years, now I'm trying to learn Greek, so I think I can honestly say I'm keeping pretty close to the real deal.

Second, everyone started going off course with evolution. Could someone possibly start a thread on that. I recently discovered a ton of things that left me in awe. And I learned it all from a book by Lee Strobel. Great book, pick it up if you can. "A Case for the Creator"

[ssjharsh]

As far as the original topic goes, I'm non donominational. I took Latin several years, now I'm trying to learn Greek, so I think I can honestly say I'm keeping pretty close to the real deal.

Second, everyone started going off course with evolution. Could someone possibly start a thread on that. I recently discovered a ton of things that left me in awe. And I learned it all from a book by Lee Strobel. Great book, pick it up if you can. "A Case for the Creator"

... okay... ill start a thread, but don't say u weren't warned

[RadikaL]

Here are my two cents: If christians are "christ-followers" than eveybody who belives in christ is a christian. It's funny to me that you guys belive in christ, yet you still argue with eachother (nomadic & swimmer).