Prev 11th division captain?

[Shadowalker]

Who was he? In other words, who did zakari defeat to become a captain? Ive wondered this for along time.

[Raikaze]

kenpachi is 11 and i dont think many people are interested in who he beat he just got beat its like who was the 10th captain before hitsugaya or was there even a captain before him no one will ever know unless they show it

[8GaugeBrett]

perhaps it was Isshin, he used it as a way to cover his disappearence from SS to come to earth to be with Ichigo's mom.

[cetamora]

lol thats got to be it

[crazy_shinigami v2]

no way
coz in a eps he said that he be the captain by killing the previos captain in front of the division
if u say that it is isshin, that means hes dead lol

[Shadowalker]

Thats what i was thinking

[cetamora]

well rebirth duh

[crazy_shinigami v2]

i didnt believce in rebirth

[cetamora]

me neither but maybe Kubo

[Shadowalker]

me neither but maybe Kubo

Maybe Isshin didnt die but he pretended to so he could go into hiding without being looked for

[cetamora]

yea was going to say that to. That must be the reason to his son's strenght

[crazy_shinigami v2]

but i think if it is he may be totally injured
maybe captain unohana knows him too

[A2k]

It's actually a plausible theory. I am not sure where I stand on the viewpoint as I haven't had a chance to mull it over properly yet. Though as soon as I read the title of the thread, similar things did go through my mind.

Raikaze, I disagree, it's actually an interesting question indeed.

With the other Captains, there wasn't a sense of crypticism about how they came to be where they are now. With Zaraki, it was specifically pointed out that he killed his predecessor in order to prove his greater strength and take his place.

Thinking about Zaraki's strength in comparrison to Ichigo's, the whole idea that Kenpachi's predecessor might have been Isshin, is definately a possibility, whether or not it's valid, is another matter.

Hmm, nice post. *ponders*

[Ferian]

hello! my first post woohoo :doindadom

We dont know whats kind of powers Isshin's soul slayer has. maybe he has the ability to confuse (like Aizen)

[Shadowalker]

Could be, and that could be why Rukia didnt sense him in the 1st episode and why no hollows ever came after them! Just a thought.

[cetamora]

Yea ichigo (i think) wondered why he never could see ghosts but maybe he just didn't wanted to just like ichigos sister but much more better on ignoring it. Think about it. Two can see one can sense and the father too them is just nothin thats wierd.

His zan hmm I don't think Kubo should make two guys have the sam ability. Maybe some stealth attack. He seems to be a sneaky bastard, (on his children that is)

[Sun Dao]

Dont captian level shinigamis have the ability to control their reiatsu(sp; i know its wrong ><); hence the swords arnt like.. humoungous.. >_> That could be it(why the hallows never came after him or his family). I doubt that Isshin would have gotten killed, or for that mater, defeated by Kenpachi. Wasnt Isshin a captian when Urohora was a captian? Maybe Isshin was the vice captian o.O;; *ponders*

[8GaugeBrett]

well the whole idea is that Issin let himself be defeated and faked his own death in front of everyone (hey it worked well for Aizen) in order to safely smuggle himself out of SS. Uruhura is definately a resourceful guy I imagine he would be able to pull something like that off. This would help to explain the extreme raw power both ichigo and his father seem to possess and ichigo's lack of natural abilities in both demon art (ok so he was never taught any, but he did struggle like hell with making the cannonball) and the sensing of spirit power/threads (uncanny how similar to Zaraki he is).

[cetamora]

Remarkeble that this thread realy found out something. Good teamwork everyone. Now is the question. Does issin have his zan left??? Where ichigos mother also a SS member or was that the reason he left SS? And will we ever see him fight and have he realy lost the abilty to see ghosts but his strong power protects him??

[crazy_shinigami v3]

well the whole idea is that Issin let himself be defeated and faked his own death in front of everyone (hey it worked well for Aizen) in order to safely smuggle himself out of SS. Uruhura is definately a resourceful guy I imagine he would be able to pull something like that off. This would help to explain the extreme raw power both ichigo and his father seem to possess and ichigo's lack of natural abilities in both demon art (ok so he was never taught any, but he did struggle like hell with making the cannonball) and the sensing of spirit power/threads (uncanny how similar to Zaraki he is).

hoy! aizen can play dead coz of his zanpakuto abilities n he didnt even be attacked so its impossible for isshin to do that!
n about ichigo's mother soul, didnt the grand fisher ate her soul earlier?????

[zaptailogy]

Remarkeble that this thread realy found out something. Good teamwork everyone. Now is the question. Does issin have his zan left??? Where ichigos mother also a SS member or was that the reason he left SS? And will we ever see him fight and have he realy lost the abilty to see ghosts but his strong power protects him??

He did fight the Grand Fisher (even thought it was a one hit KO), so I don't think he lost his ability, at least not when he was fighting GF. Another thing is... I think he has been able to see ghosts all along, but just lying to the children that he can't? Just a thought.

As to the possibility that he's the previous 11 division captain... well.. I think it's pretty high. His Zanpakuto (sp?) can probably do something like... escaping to another place really quickly? So when they realise that Isshin has escaped/ran away, Zaraki becomes captain by default? Maybe.. hmm.

*edited* Oh hold on... Zaraki said he "killed" the previous captain? In those words? Then my guess is wrong =P Sorry!

[ultimate]

i think the grand fisher most likely ate ichigos mothers soul, isnt that wat hollows do? eat peoples soul that have spiritual power or other spirits? anyway i dont think that isshin is the previous 11th division captain, zaraki killed him in front of many shinigami didnt he? thats how he became 11th captain, by killing the previous one... i dont really have an idea who the previous 11th captain was cos it has never been that important in bleach, only mentioned when ichigo was training for his bankai i think...

[Byakuya7]

I think Isshin could have been Uraharas vice captain. That would explain why they know each other so well.

[Sandal Hat]

Isshin was wearing a torn captains robe so more than likely he was a captain

Edit: Here is evidence that could support Isshin being the captain that was defeated by Zaraki http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2876/vlcsnap7334492rk.png (http://imageshack.us)

[Darkness_becomes (me)]

Good find, Sandel Hat!

Anyways...I think what probably happened was that Zaraki perhaps beat Isshin to the point to where Isshin was no longer able to be a Shinigami. Perhaps he only gained his powers back recently? It'd make sense, as Ichigo DOES let his energy leak outta him.

[ultimate]

darkness_becomes, i think u gave me an idea... maybe the way zaraki defeated the previous 11th division captain (we'll say its isshin for now...) so he no longer had shinigami powers (eg: the way byakuya took rukias shinigami powers outta ichigo) which resulted in isshins "death"... but that wouldnt explain wat he said about not being in his shinigami form for 20 yrs unless wat he meant was he got back his shinigami powers (maybe similar to ichigo?) but had to go into a gigai to protect his family for 20 yrs or some other reason

[Darkness_becomes (me)]

What I meant was that he lost his powers for 20 years, but Ichigo is the reason he got them back (recently). You know how Ichigo's energy leaked outta him to give Chad powers? What I'm saying is that Ichigo's energy leaked out of him, and into his father. This bit of energy jump-started Isshin's Shinigami powers (much the same way that Rukia's energy jump-started Ichigo's Shinigami powers).

[Constantine]

Yea but once the ... gah... the areas where that contain the shinigami powers are destroyed they cant return to death god no? the only reason ichigo was able to was because of zangetsu hiding himself deep within ichigo.

[cetamora]

But where did he achieve him at the first place then?

[Sun Dao]

Okay, Im assuming everyone has read the manga(since this is the manga forum after all); Isshin pretty much SAID he was a captain(When he schooled that one dude with the huge type sword). I doubt Isshin EVER lost his shinigami powers(something made up? think.. DBZ and how they can control their power levels, thats why he was never 'found out' by SS), I think Isshin was strong, but Zaraki could did like a sneak attack, or Isshin got too cocky(he was pretty cock when he foght GF) and Zaraki blew him away, and he "retired" or he was.. banned maybe? Like Urahara.

Maybe Urahara did the same thing with Isshin that he did with Ichigo; when he cut his chain or w/e, so now Isshin is half shinigami/hallow. o.o;; That would be an interesting twist.

[Sandal Hat]

Yea but once the ... gah... the areas where that contain the shinigami powers are destroyed they cant return to death god no? the only reason ichigo was able to was because of zangetsu hiding himself deep within ichigo.
The only reason Ichigo didn't lose his death god powers was because byakuya only destroyed Rukia's because he didn't suspect ichiog to have death god powers.

[Sun Dao]

The only reason Ichigo didn't lose his death god powers was because byakuya only destroyed Rukia's because he didn't suspect ichiog to have death god powers.

No, remember when Renji fought Byakuya, and he did that one move, which puts him behind his opponent and then he seals their shinigami powers, thats what he did to Ichigo, along with breaking his sword. The reason Ishigo got them back was because Urahara found him, took him outta his body, and put him in that pit, where it was ethier; become a shinigami, or a hallow(and die), and we all know what happened, he became a hybrid.

[Sandal Hat]

No, remember when Renji fought Byakuya, and he did that one move, which puts him behind his opponent and then he seals their shinigami powers, thats what he did to Ichigo, along with breaking his sword. The reason Ishigo got them back was because Urahara found him, took him outta his body, and put him in that pit, where it was ethier; become a shinigami, or a hallow(and die), and we all know what happened, he became a hybrid. Dude, we're talking about the same thing except byakuya destroyed RUKIA"S(hers is what awakened ichigo's) powers during that fight. Ichigo then had to find out how to activate his own powers using the method as described above. If he had destroyed ichigo's soul sleep then he would never have been able to turn into a shinigami again.

[Sun Dao]

Heh- True; u_u Guess I forgot about that lito detail >_<;

[Constantine]

well thats what i meant sandal hat...

:P

[Uchiha Nick]

the dude getting killed in Sandal hats image isnt Isshin. : ) if you look at the manga chapter ( 187 ) you see that Isshin has the torn cloak on the other side. as well, his hair is way different. ( yeah yeah, he could cut it, but look closely, its just another type : ) )

at least I could clear that one up :) also if I remember correctly, you see Kenpachi slashing the poor guy, if that was Isshin, there would be no Ichigo : P

at least cleared something up lol

so.. about Ichigo's shini power..

when Ichigo touched the ghost in episode/chapter 1, his power started leaking out right? which means his reiatsu was like in sleeping mode. Rukia gave her power to Ichigo. some time later Byakuya used flash, and cut something that made Rukia's powers dissapear. then Ichigo trains with Uruhara, and finds his own shinigami powers. ( each Shinigami has a unique Zanpakuto right? Zangetsu was.. created when Rukia gave her powers to Ichigo ) he has the powers, because he has at least 1 shinigami father ( captain at that, his mother is unknown : ( ) so that should make sense : )

btw; first post :P

[P4rD0nM3]

I seriously think that Isshin was the previous 11th Captain. EVEN THOUGH it specifically said that the previous captain was killed...i'm pretty sure that he either faked it or he decieved everyone who was watching there. Ichigo's mom is probably not from SS...she's probably the reason why Ichigo's father went to the real world, just to marry her. Just like Bya, who married Rukia's sister (1st broken rule), then he promised that he's going to take care of Rukia (Then Rukia gets jailed...for staying too long)....but he also promised that he'll uphold the laws of SS.

And you guys are saying that Isshin lost his powers? I highly doubt that...he's probably the strongest captain, who faked his death so taht people will think he's alreayd weakened and such...I think he can control his spirit power to the oint of not letting it out at all.

It says that he can't see ghost...or whatever...he's probably faking it as he doesn't want his children to know that he's not from their world.

[Polygon]

I seriously think that Isshin was the previous 11th Captain. EVEN THOUGH it specifically said that the previous captain was killed...i'm pretty sure that he either faked it or he decieved everyone who was watching there. Ichigo's mom is probably not from SS...she's probably the reason why Ichigo's father went to the real world, just to marry her. Just like Bya, who married Rukia's sister (1st broken rule), then he promised that he's going to take care of Rukia (Then Rukia gets jailed...for staying too long)....but he also promised that he'll uphold the laws of SS.

I agree tottlaly. Makes perfect sense. We saw what he did to GF. And that was his limited power.




And you guys are saying that Isshin lost his powers? I highly doubt that...he's probably the strongest captain, who faked his death so taht people will think he's alreayd weakened and such...I think he can control his spirit power to the oint of not letting it out at all.

I think he yourichi, urahara, Aizen and Isshin were the strongest. The reason he was not detected was because of the special gigai he was in my opinion.

It says that he can't see ghost...or whatever...he's probably faking it as he doesn't want his children to know that he's not from their world.

yep.

[Constantine]

Just like Bya, who married Rukia's sister (1st broken rule),

Byakuya 'brokethe rule' not because he married some one who wasnt a spirit but because she wasnt a noble.

then he promised that he's going to take care of Rukia (Then Rukia gets jailed...for staying too long).

She wasnt jailed because she stood too long, she was jailed because she transfered powers to a person, for that matter a person who was not even part of SS.

had to clear that up...

[P4rD0nM3]

Gomen!!! I forgot that...I stand corrected.

[ban.kai]

hahah ichigo should be a captain.. he had opporrtunitiesto kill a bunch of them

[angel226]

the dude getting killed in Sandal hats image isnt Isshin. : ) if you look at the manga chapter ( 187 ) you see that Isshin has the torn cloak on the other side. as well, his hair is way different. ( yeah yeah, he could cut it, but look closely, its just another type : ) )

at least I could clear that one up :) also if I remember correctly, you see Kenpachi slashing the poor guy, if that was Isshin, there would be no Ichigo : P

at least cleared something up lol


First if you look in the manga chapter the torn captains jacket is tied around Isshin left arm. The way its tied has the remaining right side sticking out. It actually does match Sandal Hats picture. as the left side seems to be torn away so Isshin tied it to his arm having the remaining right side still sway behind him.

As for the hair comment, what do you mean its a different type. Its black and really long. He could easily cut it and use that thing called styling gel to get his hair up like that >_>

As for all these theories that he really did die, i dont think thats it, i think it was merely a faked death. The story could go something like this. Isshin while on earth fell for a woman. He knew of Urahara wereabouts just like Rukia did. So probably being close friends from before Isshin wanted a way out to "Clear his head, like Urahara mentions in the manga chapter" and possible date this girl. So Urahara makes something that helps make it look like Isshin died. Last fact that could support this theory a little, 11 Division are all fighters and have a strong desire to fight. What does Ichigo's dad always do in just about every scene we see him in. He tries to makes an attack on Ichigo

[P4rD0nM3]

Support Isshin as previous 11th Captain! Yahoo!

[thematrix]

Who was he? In other words, who did zakari defeat to become a captain? Ive wondered this for along time.

The reason for his son's strenght doesn't only lie in who his parents were, but also in that he is the perfect crossbread between shinigami and hollow.

Thats what the series is about if you didn't get that by now.

Urahara gets banned from SS for creating something that can create a perfect crossbread.

Ichigo, the center person in bleach is the one person that should be this perfect crossbread. Its anime/manga storyline logic.
Just like Son-Goku is the strongest creature in the universe.
Just like Inuyasha will beat everything and everyone in the end.

Just like each and every main caracter in Manga, anime and games will always be that person of last hope, perfect contious and ultimate power to stop the big bad guys.

And yeah, I also think Ichigo's dad is very likely to be the previous 11'th squad captain. The way he acts, always assaulting Ichigo and his sisters kinda supports that too.

[Tracid]

Can you just imagine Isshin in long flowing hair? lol

[General Cox]

Iv actually rubbished the isshin theory as 11th division captain a while ago, can't remember what topic it was in though

Kenpachi killed the previous captain, isshin is not dead dead, therefore he can't the previous one that zenpachi defeated (killed). Also the man in that picture sandal hat posted up is actually kenpahci before he put his hair into that hairstyle he has now with the bells and walking off with the captains jacket as his trophy.

There was a lot of captain movement about the time rukia became a shinigami, it is most likely isshin was captain of another squad.

[P4rD0nM3]

Isshin is not dead. He faked his death. Isn't that what w're trying to prove here? That he faked his death infront of so many people thaty they actually think that he ACTUALLY DIED?

$0.02

[xanman05]

and there's a rip in the pic of zaraki's captain robe after he beat the previous 11th captain. Maybe isshin kept that part which is the part that he wears

[8GaugeBrett]

It does make sense because how else would someone of captain status (as isshin has already said he was) be able to just leave SS without anyone ever following him or trying to track him down. A faked death in front of a whole division would be the perfect cover to help someone start a new life in the mortal world without causing any sort of big fuss. Again, I maintain that he must have had help in this and that the help must have come from urahara and yoruichi on the outside.

[Kurosaki Isshin]

it was a giant turd that sings xmas jingles and wears a santa hat and dances arround........... hold on i thought this was the south park thread lol










just jokin well it could be isshin the former 11th squad captian could of used something given to him by Urahara that mimics death

[Pravis]

if atleast half you guys watch the anime, there is a backstory in the filler arc about it.

[Greggle]

if atleast half you guys watch the anime, there is a backstory in the filler arc about it.


Fillers aren't canon.

[Guy]

Lol, never trust fillers. :p

Anyways, it was never stated who it was, other than that Kenpachi beated him. It would be interesting though, because at this rate in the manga, we might be able to learn a bit about Kenpachi's story. I mean, it would be far more interesting than just watching them clash swords.

But then again... neither of the other two captains revealed their life stories... so I sort of doubt it. There's really no proof as to who was the previous captain.

[Gettles]

The issue I have with the Isshin being the old Squad 11 Captain is that there are a few issues with the theory. First is that unlike when Aizen faked his death. He made it into an assassination. With the Squad 11 Cap, there were witnesses at least 200 from 11, plus at least Tousen. For him to fake his own death would be very difficult in that situation.

Two, you have the fact that considering a few details seem to imply that Zaraki has been a captain for longer than people realize. Aizen mentioned that Renji was sent to Zaraki's squad because he would fit better in his squad. The fact that Kenpachi and his squad already had established its reputation and his amongst the Captains. Remember, both Byakuya and Gin were still very new captains at this point, implying that Kenpachi has been a Captain for longer than both of them.

Honestly, I'd say that it seems much more likely that Isshin was captian of 10, and that he simply up and disappeared (likely with Urahara's help) with little explanation, a sudden event like that would also explain putting a kid into a Captains position. Also, the fact that considering that Hitsugaya was probably given his position in the last 20 years, it also fits the series time frame almost perfectly.

[coolav006]

Apply what Isshin does in the real world to Soul Society. In the real work he is a doctor who runs his own clinic and prefers to heal people by himself instead of working in a big hospital.

Most likely Isshin was the previous 4th Division Captain before Unohana.

[h3h3h3]

Isshin.

[SupraSpeed]

maybe him and urahara formed some kind of plan and used some special giga to fool the other divisions into thinking that isshin died?

[VIDTID]

Ye it was definetly ishhin it makes sense:P

[Zanga]

Actually no it doesn't make sense since the previous 11th squad captain was killed...

[h3h3h3]

Actually no it doesn't make sense since the previous 11th squad captain was killed...
True, but it was Isshin.

[Zanga]

Ok let's just put it this way.


If Aizen is not able to byass the 4th squad captain with his FULL HYPNOSIS SHIKAI ABILITY, how god's name can Isshin pull it off?

[KonBankai]

IIRC, the previous 11th captain was said to be blood-thirsty or something (by Tousen?). I can't picture Isshin like that.

[Zanga]

No, that's Zaraki.


Nothing was really said about him except that Zaraki beat him.

[jim1701]

To me there are a bunch of possibilities for Isshin. Assuming he was a captain, he could have been 3rd, because wasn't Gin, Aizen's lieutenant for awhile? I think it would be interesting if he was the 3rd, and somehow due to some previous history with Aizen, Gin replaced him. Maybe 4th due to his medical knowledge. Wouldn't it be interesting if Isshin was the 4th captain and Unohana was his lieutenant? Possibility of some mirroring in that relationship and the one that Ichigo and Orihime have? Perhaps 6th due to the speculation that Byakuya hasn't been a captain for very long, 10th for the same reason, and then also 11th for the reasons in this thread.

That being said, I tend to agree with the whole, was 11th - faked his death with Urahara's help - lost powers in process - regained them eventually due to Ichigo's influence - theory.

[Twister1352]

Isshin is not dead. He faked his death. Isn't that what w're trying to prove here? That he faked his death infront of so many people thaty they actually think that he ACTUALLY DIED?
$0.02


Yea, but the problem is.. zaraki obviously didn't know he was trying to fake his death. So zaraki ACTUALLY cut him and tried to kill him (zaraki isn't really a fly that you can just swat away either)

And you know zaraki wasn't in on it because of his personality he would want to win on his own accord.



Apply what Isshin does in the real world to Soul Society. In the real work he is a doctor who runs his own clinic and prefers to heal people by himself instead of working in a big hospital.
Most likely Isshin was the previous 4th Division Captain before Unohana.

^ good point :) although unohana is a senior captain, so shes been there for quite a long time so I'm not sure if that is possible.

[h3h3h3]

Well Isshin wasn't 5th captain. http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4039/609110200712200558230bicz2.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8564/609110200712200558241bicm6.jpg
Redhaired guy.

[Greggle]

What the hell is that from? How old is it?

[h3h3h3]

You mean Where the hell is that from? It's from the databook. 5th captain was that red haired fella.

[Greggle]

Videogame stuff huh... now I question its relevance to the main plot :/

[Jooliyan]

Well if hes a captain.. he can suppress his Spirit Power, and Urahara has probably given him one of the Faux Bodies. Making him untraceable.

just a thought :)

[h3h3h3]

Videogame stuff huh... now I question its relevance to the main plot :/
It's realz.

[Greggle]

But is it at all significant? Doubtful.

[Teravai]

The captain next to Aizen in that pic looks a little like Keigo. The woman next to Yoruichi looks a little like Orihime.

Anyway, can someone do a rough translation from the the second pics bottom box, where there are the captains and other people? My Japanese isn't good enough yet to do that, so I would apreciate if someone did it.