[Spoiler] Manga Tousen vs Manga Vaizard Ichigo

[DJ StarScream]

Who do you think will the Blind Swordsman/Ex Captain. Or the boring main Hero.

Rules are they fight in HM and they have Infinite Reiatsu.

[smach]

ichigo will win eventually but atm tousen has the upper hand.

* refer to >>> THIS THREAD <<< (http://forums.bleachportal.net/showthread.php?t=39773&page=5) *

[KholdStare]

I think Vaizard Ichigo would "mop the floor" with Tousen, as Zanga puts it. I still believe that Grimmjow (and it seems that released Grimmjow is on par or a bit less than Vaizard Ichigo) is stronger than Tousen but that is not what we are arguing in this topic so I won't go into that. I personally think that Ichigo's newfound killer instinct would give him the upper hand over Tousen who fights to deliver justice.

Ichigo takes almost no time to go into his final release and would slice Tousen's head off before he can even use his bankai.

[smach]

tousen can prolly do the same.

sayin bankai is like sayin ur shikai phrase; it is only prolonged the first couple times to heighten the moment...then it becomes moot for the more experienced.

plus tousen must have some new hidden trick up his sleeve.

[Zanga]

I think Vaizard Ichigo would "mop the floor" with Tousen, as Zanga puts it. I still believe that Grimmjow (and it seems that released Grimmjow is on par or a bit less than Vaizard Ichigo) is stronger than Tousen but that is not what we are arguing in this topic so I won't go into that. I personally think that Ichigo's newfound killer instinct would give him the upper hand over Tousen who fights to deliver justice.

Ichigo takes almost no time to go into his final release and would slice Tousen's head off before he can even use his bankai.

This coming from me is very rare, so pls feel proud.

Q-F-T. :)

[Nowitzki]

Although it's highly unorthodox, it is possible to fight without your senses without the Zaraki method. Especially in this case, where warriors have infinite reiatsu. Getsuga Tenshou is a ranged attack that can span a wide area. Although Tousen can dodge this, maybe a few of them, after judging the direction of his last attack, may strike. Also, Ichigo has the ability to swing his sword extremely fast ( as he did with Senbon Zakura ). Immediately after an attack, or maybe at another time, Ichigo can perform this technique. Although he may just swing and hit nothing, he may eventually hit Tousen or at least prolong Tousen from attacking. Ichigo could swing a little bit and stop, and fake Tousen out by leading him to believe he stopped attacking. Then Ichigo could start swinging his sword around again, hoping Tousen would take the opening. Again.. it is really hard to fight without your senses, but there are methods to avoid being a sitting duck. Aside from that, Ichigo may figure out the trick the grabbing Suzimushi, and regain his senses. We also don't know if a person can just walk out of the range of Tousen's Bankai.

Aside from Tousen's ability to strip to senses, Ichigo should have no problem at all taking him done. Even if Tousen does get his Bankai off, Ichigo can still put up a pretty decent fight, or at least stay alive for a long time.

This fight goes to Ichigo.

[koolspot]

I am surprised, i thought you guys would be saying that Tousen would win because his bankai.
But i think TOusen's bankai is being seriously underestimated cause Zaraki won that fight against him. But anyway, if i consider the rules of the 1st post and what #obbywan2 just posted>> Ichigo Wins. But in a complete normal case and right now, i put my money on Tousen.

Grimmjow and Tousen are around the same strenght, i think that because Tousen's attack was something that Grimmjow never thought he was going to do. It is like when ichigo put his blade in Byakuya's neck. That kind of things dosen't prove nothing more than: Surprise! You did not expect that i would do this...

You know what Ichigo can do with his mask and bankai on. YOu know what Grimmjow can do, or at least you can imagine that. Ichigo can have a hard time using his senses, without them, he is lost. It is true that with your brain working and a skillfull body you can win a fight without senses. but ...
The Ichigo i know + Using the Brain = An ichigo that we haven't seen.

So, Exactly in this point of the story NOV12/2007. Tousen is the winner.

[smach]

why do i think tousen would win?

when tousen fought zaraki, it seemed like all he could do is cut his skin. +60ch later we see him slice off grimjow's arm like butter. ichigo on the other hand, was even able to beat zaraki when in shikai, yet he could only lay a scratch on grimjow when using bankai getsuga tenshou. the only time he's able to make any significant damage is thru vizard powers while grim's not released. grim releases n they seem to be capable of fighting on equal grounds.

to cut a long story short, only two things are possible:
- tousen was pretendin to be week while in SS; or
- he got some kind of power-up once the trio went to HM.

[koolspot]

why do i think tousen would win?

Your argument is very good, but i completely proved in another post that tousen was not pretending in SS. Let me quote myself:

Evidence: Episode 52 and 53
Video File: Bleach 52-53.avi (From dattebayo)
Video File Size: Aprox 300MB MQ or HQ
Location of the evidence: Minute 38 Second 42

Tousen is clearly TIRED, is breathing heavily.
Tousen: (THINKING) (Check that he did not move his lips)
(Komamura Can not hear him because he is THINKING):
[38:48] "Why? He can't use his eyes, ears, or even his nose."
[38:53] "He can't even feel any reiatsu."
Now he just say the most embarrasing part JUST for komamura right? NO!
[38:55] "So why can't i defeat him?"

Why this is not part of a plan?
The last words tousen said before attack are completely agree with his toughts.

Now Tousen attack Zaraki...
Maybe he is trying to go for a kidney?

Or is he trying to split him in a half going for a one hit kill?

[38:59] Look the at the sword. See the direction of the swing.
[39:00] Look how the sword is going to pass through zaraki's body coming from Zaraki's left side.

That sword is going to cut more than a Kidney don't you think?

[39:02] Look how the attack has missed. Zaraki moved to his left and a little bit backward.
Tousen swing is going completely to the opposite side. The sword is going where Zaraki's torso was.
The sword is low, showing that tousen expected to hit and now is out of balance.
Look at the distance between Zaraki and Tousen. (He moved fast right?)

[39:03] Tousen: (Thinking, komamura can not hear him) Again, he dodged by a hair's breadth.
[39:06] Zaraki attack tousen from the left, Big intuition.
Now tousen moved away.

[39:10] Tousen (Thinking, komamura can not hear him)
"He attacked so quickly after blocking. The attacks are getting increasingly more accurate"

[39:16] Tousen (Still Thinking, Not Talking):
"Is he really a demon"

Zaraki can dodge Tousen now...
The only problem is that is difficult to him to locate Tousen...
You know why? right? No hearing, no a lot of other things bankai?

[39:20] Zaraki(Thinking): "The last one hit"
[39:21] "He fell back after just getting scratched by the tip of the blade, though".
This thoughts shows that Zaraki almost hit tousen.
[39:25] "But a bankai that defeats the senses is a pain"
[39:29] "It's a blessing that i haven't lost my sense of touch"
[39:33] "As long as i have that, i can feel when the tip of his blade is about to touch my body and dodge."
[39:36] See that this moment show us a completely different situation that is just in Zaraki's mind.
Tousen is not in front of zaraki, and the orientation is completely different.
[39:39] "As long as i do that, i won't die for the time being."
He is completely sure that as long as he is not tired he can dodge tousen.
[39:41] "My sword is starting to hit its mark, but this is getting boring"
Zaraki is fighting just for fun (Eyepatch on, not full power)
[39:46] "It's boring if i can't cut someone after all."
Zaraki is fighting just for fun (Eyepatch on, not full power)
[39:50] "Now then..."
[39:53] "My eyes can't see, my ears can't hear and i wasn't even able to feel reiatsu from the start".
The guy is thinking! OMG!
[40:01] "Why do i have to think so much? I can't win!"
The guy dosen't like to think! OMG!
And from now a lot of crappy thinking. BUt IT WORKED!
[40:27] "What? There is a way after all."
[40:30] "There is a way to catch him"
That is Zaraki's poroblem: Catch Tousen.
[40:32] Tousen is running toward zaraki to attack him.
[40:33] Tousen (Thinking, he is not moving his lips): "He's laughing again"
[40:39] (Still Thinking) "You're dangerous, Zaraki Kenpachi! "
[40:41] (STILL THINKING) "You are too dangerous to let live!"
Why would you think that Tousen? In your mind!.
Where nobody can hear you!
Unless you really believe what you think!
Just like any normal person.
[40:42] Look at Tousen's pose. Look the orientation of his sword. His aiming a little little bit up.
But is a direct attack.
[40:44] Look where the sword touch Zaraki.
Look at the sword orientation.
It is going more to the center of Zaraki's chest.
Kidney? No.
Heart? Probably: For the orientation.
Lung? Even if he dosen't want to, hell yeah!
[40:45] Look where the sword comes out Zaraki's body.
It is more on the left side,
It is like if tousen tried to hit the heart.
Going for the kill 100% YES.
[40:46] Tousen (Thinking): "He didn't dodge"
100% Right Tousen!
[40:49] "No, he couldn't defeat it."
Completely wrong Tousen!!!
[40:54] Look at zaraki, is stabbed.
And in a very interesting spot.
Did you remember where the sword came out in his back?
Do you know how many organs we have there?
Zaraki hits Tousen
Zaraki Dosen't chop his head off.
Zaraki is holding Tousen's arm and he can't escape.
[41:09] Tousen tried to escape or move his sword but he can't
Zaraki is stronger.
Tousen is shaking.
[41:24] Zaraki let Tousen go!
Oh mercyful Zaraki! He is givin tousen another chance to kill him.
[41:34] Tousen is wounded, is breathing heavily and is THINKING:
"I Can't lose. I cannot lose to you".
[41:45] Tousen remembers something
(Proving AGAIN that is being honest about the "I'm gonna kill you thing").

Do You really need more than This?

Tousen is not stronger than Zaraki.
Tousen was not acting for any Aizen's plan.
Komamura did not hear a crap, because 97% of all dialogues were thoughts.
3%: Things that komamura heard (Asuming that komamura could hear Tousen):
1- My bankai is so cool disclaimer.
2- "So why can't i defeat him?"
3- "Impossible!"
4- "If you say that there is not enough justice,
then i shall become justice. And i shall vanquish the cloud
that is the source of worlds evil."
"I will bet all my justice on this."
Before Tousen's Bankai tousen said clear and loud:
[32:40] "I do not hate you, but for the sake of peace i must kill you"
Zaraki is phisically stronger than tousen or komamura.
[30:22] Zaraki stop Komamura and Tousen's Swords at the same time.

Zaraki was not trying to kill Tousen:
1- Eyepatch On = Less power.
2- [42:37] Zaraki: "It's no good. I've had enough. Like i could fight with someone who's half dead."

Zaraki was holding back even with his eyepatch on (Doble hold back)

[44:18] Komamura: "This is a dangerouse battle to the death!".
[44:27] Zaraki: "That's great! In that case, i don't have to hold back!"
[44:33] "If you die become a monster and come back for me to kill you again!".


I think anyone can understand this because anyone here can read it.
You think This is logical or you are agree with this? Please post.
You are against?... Evidence please.

CHECK THE EPISODE IF YOU DON¨T BELIEVE ME

And if there is some kind of hostility in the post sorry, i did not read my quote again.

But the point is Tousen can beat Ichigo now, Ichigo lost against Grimmjow in the anime, and for those who read manga...

And Tousen is around Grimmjow Strenght + Expierence + Bankai Abbilities.

My money is on Tousen.

[Undying]

Tousen landed two straight hits on Zaraki: on the shoulder and on the side (both non-fatal strikes). He can beat Zaraki, he just wasn't trying to.

You entire long post is useless; Tousen was clearly not aiming to hit Zaraki in his first two hits.

Therefore, Tousen was not aiming to kill Zaraki. Period.

[Decado]

Contrary to popular opinion - Tousen would win. Forget for a moment you hate him -.-

He chopped Grimmjow's arm with minimal effort. That's the sixth espada.
Even Yoruichi (who Ulquiorra holds in high regard, as do we all.. for various reasons) hurt herself when she kicked Yammi's steel skin. Yammi is tenth Espada.
Not only that, Tousen incinerated Grimmjow's arm with one kidou summon. Let me iterate that. "Incinerated with one kidou attack"

Note the Grimmjow vs Ichigo fight. Tousen's bankai is (as some say, cheap) but probably one of the best we've seen.
This is Vaizard Ichigo (that is, the one who fought Grimmjow) NOT SHIROSAKI. Saying wherever Ichigo is, Shirosaki is, is void because he did not appear in the Grimmjow fight, and we will assume, Ichigo alone vs Tousen.

Thusly, Tousen's bankai would leave Ichigo little to work with. Unless Ichigo blasts a Getsuga Tenshou IMMEDIATELY he is screwed like a drilled nail. If a basic kidou attack could incinerate Grimmjow's arm, imagine a full throttle attack by Tousen.
Lastly, even if Ichigo managed a Gestuga Tenshou, you saw the effect it had on Grimmjow. Naught.

And for the sake of a coherent, balanced plot - you would assume the 3 shinigami are stronger than the Espada. Highly contentious, but proving otherwise takes little from the argument, that Tousen would win.

Oh and I don't care whether Tousen won against Zaraki or not. For purposes of plot, Kubo was trying to show that just b/c Zaraki lost to Ichigo, didn't mean he was weak.

Although he may just swing and hit nothing, he may eventually hit Tousen or at least prolong Tousen from attacking. Ichigo could swing a little bit and stop, and fake Tousen out by leading him to believe he stopped attacking. Then Ichigo could start swinging his sword around again, hoping Tousen would take the opening
The greatest flaw in the technique is that you're only taking into account the bankai. You say range will play a part, in favour of Ichigo.

Has everyone forgotten Tousen's shikai? And just b/c the psychopath with the high reiatsu managed to take the hit doesn't mean Ichigo will - from distance.

Tousen's shikai, bankai, and what we've seen of his kidou leave him as a well balanced warrior. I assume Aizen chose him to accompany them, not based solely on the reason that he was blind to the shikai illusion.

[smach]

lol the calvary came...i guess it was a good idea afterall for me to let other ppl handle this.

newayz i still think tousen may have been keepin a low profile in SS.

[sweeter]

Contrary to popular opinion - Tousen would win.

But aren't your thoughts entirely opinion as well? ;)

(:

[smach]

omg lol why don't u quit pokin the dog's balls...ur gonna make him mad.

now u don't wanna make the dog mad, doya?

[Decado]

But aren't your thoughts entirely opinion as well?

Contrary to popular opinion - Tousen would win.
Popular opinion :)

There seems to be a general coherence of hate stemming towards the bl-
I mean, towards Tousen.

[sweeter]

Popular opinion :)

Tousen winning against Vaizard Ichigo is also entirely opinion. It's no better than the opinion that Vaizard Ichigo will win against Tousen.

(:


Yeah, but I meant the more popular option more so as in what we had seen in the thread so far, and what I expected to see later.
- Kenza

Popular opinion =/= fact. It's still opinion (although popular) when it boils down to it.

(:

I never said it was fact o.O
All i said was, that my view was opposing most of what had been said so far, and what would be said later, no matter how right or wrong it would be. Nothing to do with the terminology of the word..
- Kenza

"I never said it was fact o.O" -- Just clarifying that.

(:

[Grimmjawz]

all vIchigo has to do is f step and touch tosen's zanpakto and then you know what would happen after that

[Guy]

Hmm... vizard Ichigo is getting stronger and stronger, while we really haven't seen much of Tousen's powers yet. It's possible for Tousen to win, but then again, I'm leaning towards Ichigo on this one. He has crazy speed and no fear in his mask form. I doubt Tousen's bankai would do much.

[DJ StarScream]

Ok Ichigo HAS to go vaizard to be a match for UNRELEASED grimmjaw. Now Grimm releases and Vai ichigo still has a tough time. Tousen swings his sword cuts off Unrelease grimmjaw with ease. Blows his arm up with kidou. Ichigo had to get help from who I call Vaizard King.

Touson is more powerfull and wise. He wouldn't go down without a fight. What good statements that have been made. Thank you all.

[KholdStare]

Popular opinion :)

There seems to be a general coherence of hate stemming towards the bl-
I mean, towards Tousen.

Well, I don't feel that is necessarily a "hate", I just know that some of us believe that the "fight" he had with Grimmjow proved nothing about his strength. Although you used the example of how Yoruichi hurt herself by kicking Yammy around, the scenario is very different for Tousen. Tousen was using a zanpaktou while "fighting" and we cannot assume that Grimmjow's skin is as hard as Yammy's. If Rukia was able to pierce through the 9th Espada, Tousen, a former Captain, should have no trouble slicing through Grimmjow if he does not resist.

[Decado]

and we cannot assume that Grimmjow's skin is as hard as Yammy's
It was stated that Espada have reinforced steel skin. Consequently, it's safe to assume 6th's defensive skin would be tougher than the 10th's
If Rukia was able to pierce through the 9th Espada
It was a tank - not steel skin. And she materialised her zanp all the way through, without having to punch through it from only one side.
That only proves that a character so weak as Rukia can destroy an Espada - means that a captain like Tousen would be able to take Grimm

[99wattr89]

I personally think that Ichigo would definitely win.

[FullMetal Rebel]

I choose Tousen for obvious reasons.As of right now Ichigo beatign Tousen in the manga,is insane.Theres the Espada that Ichigo can't even handle past 6.Then theres the commanding officers and Aizen,who are stronger than the Espadas.

Ichigo beating Tousen in this arc just won't be happening.

[Juthrum]

all vIchigo has to do is f step and touch tosen's zanpakto and then you know what would happen after that

Yeah, this'd be simple if he could SEE where tousen was, eh? Trouble is, he can't, so how might you propose he flash step to Tousen?

[Guy]

Vizard Ichigo's power is now on par with Grimmjaw. Actually, there's no real proof that Grimmjaw is weaker than Tousen. All he did was cut off Grimmjaw's arm off, and Aizen prevented any further fighting. We cannot judge Tousen's strength just on one tiny action.

[FullMetal Rebel]

Actually, there's no real proof that Grimmjaw is weaker than Tousen. All he did was cut off Grimmjaw's arm off,

Since he is higher ranked,and is a major antagonist.It is best to assume he would beat Grimmjow.

We cannot judge Tousen's strength just on one tiny action.

We can judge his strength by his role in the plot:)

[KholdStare]

Since he is higher ranked,and is a major antagonist.It is best to assume he would beat Grimmjow.

We can judge his strength by his role in the plot:)

Tousen is a subordinate of Aizen and just at the top due to his relationship with Aizen. It does not prove anything about his strength. For example, if a president appointed a judge because he is his friend or is very loyal, that does not prove anything about his intelligence or competency of the office. Tousen, similarly, may just be a loyal follower.

[Undying]

Yeah, but this is a Shonen manga... according to Shonen law, Ichigo or one of his sidekicks will have to fight against Tousen on their way to Aizen and the final battle. Since they'll also have to defeat the Espada before they get there, Tousen will have to be stronger than the strongest Espada by then.

Shounen law states that Tousen is stronger than Grimmjow regardless of his position.

[sweeter]

Not necessarily.

Tousen might be defeated by a Captain in the Winter War, as opposed to a hybrid. Maybe by Komamura, because of plot. We'll just have to see.

(:

[smach]

yea that's a possibility due to internal conflicts n friendship (aka plot) but gettin beat by an espada isn't.

so tousen would prolly beat ichigo atm.

[Guy]

Yeah, but this is a Shonen manga... according to Shonen law, Ichigo or one of his sidekicks will have to fight against Tousen on their way to Aizen and the final battle. Since they'll also have to defeat the Espada before they get there, Tousen will have to be stronger than the strongest Espada by then.
Shounen law states that Tousen is stronger than Grimmjow regardless of his position.

You have a very good point here, Undying. If Ichigo does fight Tousen later on, it would mean that Tousen is stronger. However, we don't know if Ichigo will fight Tousen, actually. Maybe some minor ranked Vizard will do that job for him. In that case, Tousen might not be stronger than Ichigo.

[smach]

that's unlikely to happen. the vizards will most likely fight only the arancars. only leader figures like shinji may temporarilly aid ichigo against the top three. plus there's still the vasto lorde who are being recruited.

point is it's quite unlikely for the vizards to finish off aizen's trio. those guyz will most likely be left for urahara's trio.

[Guy]

OK, but really, if Ichigo fights Tousen one day, he will have to win, because this is shounen after all.

And who's Urahara's trio? Ururu and Jinta? I hope not.

[smach]

oh my bad i meant urahara's fantastic four: ichigo's dad, ishida's dad, urahara, yoruichi.

yea ichigo will also be the victor against aizen eventually, but we're talking about the ichigo we currently know.

[Guy]

Urahara's fantastic four will wtfpwn Tousen. As for the current Ichigo... yeah, he probably might not beat Tousen yet.

[DJ StarScream]

If Ichigo has to go Vaizard Bankai form to stand up to unreleased grimmjow. Tousen is an excaptian. And to fight tousen he will have to learn more tech's than shunpo.

Remember when Ulq crushed his eye. Aizen Tousen and Gin saw Ichigo fighting Yammi too.

[Crusader.]

He is 1000's years to early to beat him!!!!

Lol, nah as undying said tousen would prolly beat him right now..

[Nowitzki]

Contrary to popular opinion - Tousen would win. Forget for a moment you hate him -.-

He chopped Grimmjow's arm with minimal effort. That's the sixth espada.
Even Yoruichi (who Ulquiorra holds in high regard, as do we all.. for various reasons) hurt herself when she kicked Yammi's steel skin. Yammi is tenth Espada.
Not only that, Tousen incinerated Grimmjow's arm with one kidou summon. Let me iterate that. "Incinerated with one kidou attack"

Note the Grimmjow vs Ichigo fight. Tousen's bankai is (as some say, cheap) but probably one of the best we've seen.
This is Vaizard Ichigo (that is, the one who fought Grimmjow) NOT SHIROSAKI. Saying wherever Ichigo is, Shirosaki is, is void because he did not appear in the Grimmjow fight, and we will assume, Ichigo alone vs Tousen.

Thusly, Tousen's bankai would leave Ichigo little to work with. Unless Ichigo blasts a Getsuga Tenshou IMMEDIATELY he is screwed like a drilled nail. If a basic kidou attack could incinerate Grimmjow's arm, imagine a full throttle attack by Tousen.
Lastly, even if Ichigo managed a Gestuga Tenshou, you saw the effect it had on Grimmjow. Naught.

And for the sake of a coherent, balanced plot - you would assume the 3 shinigami are stronger than the Espada. Highly contentious, but proving otherwise takes little from the argument, that Tousen would win.

Oh and I don't care whether Tousen won against Zaraki or not. For purposes of plot, Kubo was trying to show that just b/c Zaraki lost to Ichigo, didn't mean he was weak.


The greatest flaw in the technique is that you're only taking into account the bankai. You say range will play a part, in favour of Ichigo.

Has everyone forgotten Tousen's shikai? And just b/c the psychopath with the high reiatsu managed to take the hit doesn't mean Ichigo will - from distance.

Tousen's shikai, bankai, and what we've seen of his kidou leave him as a well balanced warrior. I assume Aizen chose him to accompany them, not based solely on the reason that he was blind to the shikai illusion.

Agreed. My reasoning for supporting Ichigo, and I should have made this much clearer in my first post, is that, the rules were that both fighters have infinite reiatsu. With infinite reiatsu, Ichigo can spam Getsuga Tenshou's and use his quick -slicing attack all he wants, which may negate Tousen's attacks or prevent him from attacking.

If it were not for infinite reiatsu, Tousen would take this fight hands down. Maybe my interpretation of infinite reiatsu gives Ichigo a greater advantage then it really would.

If it were normal conditions, Tousen hands down. Tousen can cast Bankai, and then yell "Off with your head!"

[Undying]

If it were normal conditions, Tousen hands down. Tousen can cast Bankai, and then yell "Off with your head!"
First Tousen will preach (to a person who can't hear him, let me remind you) about justice and spelling slaughter without laughter, and THEN go "off you go" to Ichigo's head.

[Vaizard]

Vaizard Ichigo will obviously win , I mean , imagine that , the main character dying? That's impossible , all the animes NEVER show a Main character dying except in FMA , Edward Elric dies ><
Tousen is too skeptic to say some crap like " Off with your head!" Don't you know that he likes justice , he hates fighting , that's why he wouldn't kill Zaraki Kenpachi , but Captain Komamura had no mercy , but he actually wasnt strong enough for Kenpachi

[smach]

like i've said before...
ichigo will win eventually but atm tousen has the upper hand.

* refer to >>> THIS THREAD <<< (http://forums.bleachportal.net/showthread.php?t=39773&page=5) *

[Vaizard]

tousen doesnt have the upperhand what the heck do you mean

[FullMetal Rebel]

tousen doesnt have the upperhand what the heck do you mean


You have been up to date on Tousen's new attitude,right?His role in the plot is good evidence too.

Also what he did to the Sexta Espada:)

[SenpaiRetsu]

Can someone maybe help me out? i didn't pay that much attention to tosen's explanation. During his Bankai does he literally put u in another dimension? or is it a physical thing? Ichigo's speed is uber, if he just went straight or any direction long enough, and shooting a GT won't he just waltz right out of the dome? i guess if he shot a GT wouldn't it just blow a giant whole in the dome? i'm not sure at all. let me know

[Jay3205]

It is a physical object. Tousen admits that the "one" weakness of his bankai is that his opponent can run to the edge to escape its effect.

[SenpaiRetsu]

It is a physical object. Tousen admits that the "one" weakness of his bankai is that his opponent can run to the edge to escape its effect.

Well you have to admit that may change things quite a bit. maybe if he literally sensless he can't move straight. similar to being in a desert, if your in a desert, unless u have tools like a compass and some training, it's almost impossible to keep "straight" for a significan period of time. however if Ichigo starts shooting GT's and tears this object then he could see the opening and head for it then he'd simply run out of the dome and pwn tosen.

However if Tosen's riatsu did get a tremendous boost i don't know if ichigo can cut him with his sword.