Theory in Motion

[Jaran]

((The title doesn't really have anything to do with the poem, other than the fact that I'm trying a new style out. It'll probably be long, so bear with me.))

Silent nails drag along a chalkboard surface;
Goosebumps arise without reason.
Effect without cause;
Causes my world to crumble.

A lover's fingers touch the skin passionately;
No emotion is awakened within.
Cause without effect;
Effectively destroys others.

Paint dries upon a wall;
The fumes still linger about.
The smell disturbs me;
A long-forgotten memory awakens.

Darkness surrounds my head;
The air seems stale and lifeless.
I draw no sustenance from it;
Death becomes my closest friend.

Take a walk through the park;
Look at all the pretty sights.
Trees loom overhead;
The birds kill each other for encroaching upon their territory.

Blood pools around my ankles;
Numerous bodies lay at my feet.
Their lives were all precious;
In a flash, molten lead stole them away.

Take my life;
Tear it into pieces.
Take my flesh;
Consume my body.

Fire and water do not mix;
Their elements are opposites.
Humankind and peace are the same;
The dichotomy is too pronounced.

The bluejay is a fierce creature;
Defending its territory from all.
It pierces its enemy's organs;
A sharp sword is its beak.

Clothes fall to the floor;
Lovers embrace each other passionately.
Their fluids mix in a heady rush;
Life seems so far away to them, yet it is still so close.

Fall to pieces;
What is left?
Life and death;
Love and hate.

Piecemeal arguments litter the streets of the capitol;
The streets of another capitol is littered with pieces of men.
Wives and daughters, brothers and sisters;
Their love lives on, but their life was loved as well.

Torn to shreds, a man traverses the world;
His macabre appearance is on display for all.
Those who see draw away in horror, wretching at his revulsive appearance;
The blind simply smile and continue their day.

Faith and ignorance;
The two are not far removed.
Yet anyone who questions those who keep the faith;
Are shunned for their lack of belief.

My skin falls away;
The fire has taken me.
Reveal my true self;
Take the old me away.

[MasterWordSmith]

Hi Jaran, I'm going to rip apart this poem, hope you don't mind too awfully =)

Silent nails drag along a chalkboard surface;
Goosebumps arise without reason.
Effect without cause;
Causes my world to crumble.

I'd say nails on a chalkboard is reason enough for goosebumps, the stanza initially doesn't really make any sense right off the bat. Effect without cause - a massive cliche. I get what you're saying there in that everything should be in fact, a cause, then an effect, but there must be vastly more clever ways of phrasing this outside of just stating it in reverse. Jaran, if I may ask, what is a crumbling world like? It seems like you're just telling me "yea, my world, its crumbling" and that isn't much of an imagine in my head. Like, the world can crumple into a bajillion pieces, or 10, or 6, or 3498543, and it can be a red fiery explosion, it can be...well the list goes on but I think you get what I'm saying. The image isn't really precise. Also, the semi-colon breaks flow AND is used improperly. A semi-colon links two complete sentences, not two fragments. A comma links fragments. Effect without Cause - not a complete sentence.


A lover's fingers touch the skin passionately;
No emotion is awakened within.
Cause without effect;
Effectively destroys others.

in L1, cut "the" from "the skin passionately" because its redunant and wordy. "No emotion awakened within" is sort of a useless line. It doesn't really seem at all relevant to the rest of the stanza (or poem really for that matter) so I'd say cut it and find a better replacement, something more flowy, because currently its a very sharp period on the end of that sentence.

Paint dries upon a wall;
The fumes still linger about.
The smell disturbs me;
A long-forgotten memory awakens.


"Paint drys upon a wall /// Fumes still linger about" Read it with an 'and' instead of a line break and I'll think it'll make a lot more sense structurally and diologically. =) Too many semicolons throughout =/ No need really, often times its better to just use and, it makes the poem sound more natural.

Darkness surrounds my head;
The air seems stale and lifeless.
I draw no sustenance from it;
Death becomes my closest friend.

This is too vague. I have no idea what "darkness" is like. How do you mean darkness? what is the color of darkness? a purple? black? brown? Is it thick? smelly? does it cause massive holes in the space time continuum? what!!?! xD You have to describe things to your reader so the image in our head is vastly more vivid. You can replace all those ; , . with a conjuction most of the time within stanzas. Like turn it into

The air seems stale and lifeless so
I draw no sustenance from it and
Death becomes my closest friend.

This is a lot more natual, and actually sounds like how someone would speak it.

I'll come back for more, my mum is calling for me and I have some college stuff to write. =P anyway the same advice applies throughout the rest also.

[Jaran]

MWS: First, thanks for commenting. However, I think your criticism is flawed because you're approaching it from an academic viewpoint.

Poetry != academic in nature. Criticism for "bad grammar" or "wordy" or something like that has no place in poetry. The only thing you're supposed to do is analyze is and feel what the poet was conveying. It's a language of emotion, not of the cerebrum.

Now to respond to your comments.

First off, I think you may have a problem with your imagination, due to the fact that you're having trouble visualizing what I'm writing. It says:

"Silent nails drag along a chalkboard surface;"

So obviously, it's silent. SILENT. Meaning the viewer can't hear the sound of the nails on the chalkboard. The sound is what causes the goosebumps for people. Simply seeing nails on a board shouldn't do anything. Thus invoking the "Effect without cause" line. This is very laborious explaining the entire thing, just so you know, especially since I did it in a stream of consciousness style. As for the "causes my world to crumble" line, that's not a very hard line to understand. Everyone should know what it feels like to have your sense of reality come crashing down around you. Anyone who has had their innocence taken from them should be able to identify.

Now for your comments on the second stanza. You say to cut "the" from "touch the skin passionately". You would rather the line read "A lover's fingers touch skin passionately"? That line doesn't keep with the rest of the stanza at all! Also, when you say that "No emotion is awakened within" is a useless line, you display the fact that you probably don't have the life experience to understand my poem. You don't know that when people touch other people, there is supposed to be an emotional reaction? That's just sad.

Now, I don't feel like responding to the rest of your comments, I think it tears apart the symbolism and beauty of a poem for the poet to explain what he meant. It's better to let people draw their own conclusions. However, keep this in mind. Don't criticize a poet's work, analyze it. The point of a poem isn't to be grammatically sound or to be a flowing prose, although both of those things are nice. The point is to convey emotion, to inspire the audience. Also, since this is a stream of consciousness poem, it's a reflection of my thought process. If you want to read this poem, you need to be able to deal with my extremely fragmented and randomized mind.

[Shinomori]

MWS, I find it hard to believe that e.e. cummings has sold any literature.

semicolons used improperly; that makes no sense; to me?

I mean, he's got the worst grammar ever, doesn't capitalize, yet is one of the most beloved poets of modern times.

Poetry isn't about grammar, prose is. Poetry is about the ideas.

[Cloud]

When did MasterNoobSmith get back here? Oh wells... Someone will have to call in the Jimbozubuen squadron.

On a more important note... Very nice work Jaran.

[MasterWordSmith]

Last time I offer my advice, have it your way.

and just for the record, nails on a chalkboard does give me goosebumps whether or not sound is there.

Poetry is about ideas, but if the ideas aren't conveyed effectively, you will generally have a rough time finding an audience. You have to begin by making the poem make sense in the English language. Write in some other language if that suits you, but if it doesn't make sense to people in English, you'll have a helluva time getting people to "read" it. Regardless, I gave you lots of non academic advice that relates to sound/flow/and imagery, if you don't want any of that either, w/e! =P

Furthermore, I happen to have a lot of "life experiance" as you call it, I'm in a relationship with whom I believe to be the love of my life, my mom and dad divorced when I was young, and countless other indirect/direct problems in my life reguarding abuse and passion, I damn well know what life is about, I'm 18 and have lived every one of those seconds up until now. So don't go and try and call me "sad" when I KNOW what I've been through, and I KNOW how it feels to touch, and to be in love. Don't even try and start that kind of crap here, its just unesecary and uncalled for.

Also, randomization usually doesn't make for good poetry. Because it won't make sense to the reader. eg.

Oh water skiing hyena
of introverted lust, for you
I set sail on oil slick shores
you brain as fuzzy as 10 cotton
balls (mashed in a mix mash no less)
and then strewn about
the dreamworld of the subconscious

Man, what a pro poem, can anyone get the deep meaning?

It's called "constructive criticism" for a reason. I'm trying to help you improve your work to better it for others to read through my own opinion, if you don't like my opinion, you can kindly disregard it, not act like a jerk when I was EXTREMELY polite and gave you a good chunk of time to HELP. If you look at my comments, not a single one was "LOL THIS IS BAD POEM ROFL GAY" etc. Its all very nicely put and meant strictly as an opinion.

You need to manner up and stop acting like a child and respect the fact that people occasionally have negative opinions about something you can write and try and put time into helping you. If you don't like it, I won't comment on your work anymore, and thats that. But don't be a dick about it.

[Jaran]

Just so you know, I wasn't being a dick about it. I was entirely polite, and even started by saying "thank you" for your comments. I'm sorry if you got riled up because I was criticizing your criticism, but hey, you're preaching it at me, so whatever.

That's my point. People get angry at critics, and even when someone isn't angry, the critic gets angry because their criticism has been questioned as fallible. Either way, you are in the wrong for getting angry at me. I wasn't angry at you at all, I just offered up some criticism. You get angry at me criticising you, so how do you have any place to yell at me, even if I was angry at your comments?

To be honest, I found your comments slightly funny. I mean, typos throughout while basically saying that I'm inept. If you're going to criticise someone, you should most definitely make sure that everything is spelled correctly. After all, it's not like you're on a website where you can't take back something you've said.

In addition, you saying that you do have the life experience to understand my poem is slightly off. A divorce between your parents and being in love with a girl? Hooray. Call me once you've sampled the wines of life and tasted the true horrors of it. Here's a hint at what I've been through if you want to throw tragedy in my face: I've never met my real father. I was raised by a stepfather and my real mother, only to find out years later that my stepfather was molesting my little sister. I've been to war and seen good men die, and bad men get away with killing them. I've had my heart broken countless times and forged through it, entrusting it to yet another lover only to have it broken again. I may not have lived for much longer than you (23 years), but my life has been a constant rollercoaster.

If that comment I made is still bugging you, then let me say this: You could have avoided it by not making a frivolous comment about how the line doesn't make sense. Reading a poem (like I said) isn't cerebral, it's emotional. You read it and allow it to make you feel things. If it makes you confused, maybe that's what I intended. Feel what I'm trying to make you feel. Attempt to understand it and come to terms with it.

Also, calling me a child wasn't exactly the most mature way to deal with criticism. If you don't want me to comment on you, fine. But when you criticise someone, expect to receive retribution in equal doses. After all, no one likes to be told they're wrong. :)

[Seff vi Britannia]

Furthermore, I happen to have a lot of "life experiance" as you call it, I'm in a relationship with whom I believe to be the love of my life, my mom and dad divorced when I was young, and countless other indirect/direct problems in my life reguarding abuse and passion, I damn well know what life is about, I'm 18 and have lived every one of those seconds up until now. So don't go and try and call me "sad" when I KNOW what I've been through, and I KNOW how it feels to touch, and to be in love. Don't even try and start that kind of crap here, its just unesecary and uncalled for.

/care, seriously. This is the wrong place to talk about your life experiences.



You need to manner up and stop acting like a child and respect the fact that people occasionally have negative opinions about something you can write and try and put time into helping you. If you don't like it, I won't comment on your work anymore, and thats that. But don't be a dick about it.

Slightly ironic you call Jaran a child when he's older, and probably far more mature than you. And the only reason he is pissed at your negative opinions is because poetry isn't about grammar and that forms the largest piece of your (and i use this word loosely) "Constructive criticism."


Anyway, beautiful poem Jaran, not that i know anything about poetry. :D

I like the way you just let your thoughts spew out onto the keyboard.

[Isis]

Awesome poem, Jaran, though I admit that some of the stanzas felt awfully disjointed to me.

[Jaran]

Thankies. At the risk of spoiling the artistic integrity of the poem, let me just say that it's supposed to feel disjointed. After all, how often do you find a life that is perfectly ordered?

[Isis]

Then you can say I got the feel of the poem :P You're providing tough competition for the contest haha.

[Jaran]

Lol, I'm glad to be around to make things interesting, then. :)

[BeeCrest]

Feh, at least you guys kept your responses intelligent. Don't make me have to mod this thread though (edit posts, delete, etc.)

Anyways, the style you used is interesting Jaran. Aside from the disjointed-ness it's good, and as you said the disjointed-ness symbolizes daily life.

Yeah....I suck at CnC. Once again good job! XD