Uchiha Sasuke vs Uzumaki Naruto [Manga spoilers]

[Vaizard]

It's the battle all the Naruto-fans love!
Uchiha Sasuke vs Uzumaki Naruto! [Manga]
Uchiha Sasuke : Full Sharingan , Ten No Juin , Chidori , Chidori Nagashi , Evil Wind Blade , Katon jutsus , (Shishi Rendan) , Kuchiyose No Jutsu.
Uzumaki Naruto : Tajuu/Kage Bunshin No Jutsu , Kyuubi 1-4 tails , Rasengan , Kuchiyose No Jutsu , Uzumaki Naruto Rendan.
And the winner is?
PS : I did not vote on Poll
Remember to always post with your result , unlike someone who just chose Uchiha Sasuke

[ninjabot]

Sasuke wins this one. He's proven he can make Kyuubi useless, preventing any tailed forms. Naruto has also shown he's terribly susceptible to Genjutsu, which Sasuke is starting to use now. Regular Rasengan has yet to defeat Chidori in a head on collision, but Oodama Rasengan probably could. Fuuton Rasen Shuriken is deadly, but countered with Goukakyuu no Jutsu because fire beats wind. Bombarding Sasuke with clones has never worked either, thanks to Sharingan, and now that he has Chidori Nagashi he won't be being surrounded anytime soon.

So the only ability Sasuke can't counter is Gamabunta...oh wait, he already proved he could mind contol a Sannin level summon when he took control of Manda.

Yep, Naruto's boned.

[Draffut]

Sasuke is superior right now, but it's only a short matter of time till Naruto surpasses him.

And Sasuke can't mind control a boss summon. All he did was made manda not notice the explosion while he merged into it.

Actually, alot of your points are off Ninjabot. Sasuke flat out admited that Rasengan is more powerful then Chidori. But Sasuke's Sharingan can copy Rasengan now, so this is negligible.

Fuuton Rasengan Shuriken is a massivly powerful S-Ranked jutsu, which from that we saw in the Kakuzu fight means that a stronger fire jutsu then Goukakyuu no Jutsu would be needed to beat it. an S ranked fire jutsu to be precise, and unless Sasuke is dual alligned (very unlikely) he doesn't have it.

Bombarding him with clones would be pretty useful, since his clones have shown the ability to use Rasengan.

Really, the reason Naruto has no chance, is because one Genjutsu from Sasuke and he's done. Itachi proved this already.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Sasuke wins this one. He's proven he can make Kyuubi useless, preventing any tailed forms.

BULLSHIT. Show me where Sasuke supresses ACTIVE Kyuubi, when Naruto is active, not talking with Kyuubi in his mind, and when Naruto has tails released, thank you very much.

Naruto has also shown he's terribly susceptible to Genjutsu, which Sasuke is starting to use now.

To little effect - Deidara shrugged it off.

Regular Rasengan has yet to defeat Chidori in a head on collision, but Oodama Rasengan probably could. Fuuton Rasen Shuriken is deadly, but countered with Goukakyuu no Jutsu because fire beats wind.


HOWEVER, if one attack is much stronger than the other, element advantages pale in comparison. Imagine a small, flickering flame against a hurricane. Would the flame destroy the wind? I think not. And a hurricane to a flame is what Fuuton Rasen Shuriken is to ANY fire jutsu Sasuke has been shown to have.

Bombarding Sasuke with clones has never worked either, thanks to Sharingan,

Er, i don't remember sharingan ever being able to tell which the clones were. Byakugan can't do it either. (i may be mistaken, but if i am, show me the chapters)

and now that he has Chidori Nagashi he won't be being surrounded anytime soon * until he runs out of chakra.



So the only ability Sasuke can't counter is Gamabunta...oh wait, he already proved he could mind contol a Sannin level summon when he took control of Manda.

And i imagine Sasuke would be at 100% strength after summoning Manda...

No, obviously not.. it's absurd Kishi butrape that Sasuke summoned Manda after having "no chakra left" anyway, but let's ignore that.
Manda is a selfish bastard anyway, and has a much lesser bond with Sasuke than Naruto has with Gamabunta - in Naruto, this generally affects power.

If the strength of the summoenr is linked to the strength of the summon, then Naruto with his infinite chakra reserve will be more powerful with Sasuke, who, er dosen't have anywhere NEAR that much chakra.

And as Draffut says.. ^ :rolleyes








Oh yeah, how could i forget.

Four tails Naruto utterly destroyed Orochimaru, wheras Sasuke had to use his second level curse seal (and lost in the real world) against Orochimaru. Sasuke only won due to the (so far unexplained) technique on Orochimaru inside the transfer jutsu. THEN, Sasuke went onto nearly die against Deidara, despite carrying the elemental advantage AND the sharingan, which allowed him to counter many of Deidara's moves.


So yeah, 3-4 tails Naruto?


GMV. :\

[Draffut]

Naruto has also shown he's terribly susceptible to Genjutsu, which Sasuke is starting to use now.

To little effect - Deidara shrugged it off.

Thought I would point out, that Deidara specifically trained his eye to be immune to Sharingan genjutsu's. Naruto has nothing of the sort.

Also, Ninja was saying Sasuke would control Gamabunta if Naruto summoned it. I think you missed that.

P.S. I sadly can't see what pic you put at the end.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Oh, you're right... i suppose i missed that because the notion is so absurd anyway.

You think that Sasuke could control Gamabunta, given that gamabunta is a king-level summon, and one that Sasuke has not signed a contract with?


Psch...


I didn't post a pic at the end, btw. :)


edit-

Yes, but Deidara shrugged off the genjutsu, then shut his other eye so he wouldn't be affected again. The genjutsu still failed.

[ninjabot]

Never said Kyuubi was active during that time. That's the point I'm makeing: prepare for it before Naruto gets the chance to form any tails (like he did already).

As for Genjutsu, prove to me Naruto has the same ability to counter Genjutsu that Deidara has. You forget that Deidara spent a long time trying to learn to see through Genjutsu, and even then he only trained one eye.

Then FRS...Rasengan is already stronger than Chidori, but Sasuke has no problem countering it with a B Class jutsu. A C-rank might not beat an S-Rank, but the boost from CS2 fixes that, probably boosting it a rank or 2 (when he did the CS2 Chidori, it was obviously alot stronger than it normally is, I don't see why the same can't happen with Goukakkyu).

For the clones I said "bombarding Sasuke with clones never worked before" not "Sasuke can totally tell the difference between Naruto and his clones". The point I was making is he destroys dozens of Naruto's clones without any of them posing a real threat. Same for this fight.

And with the Gamabunta statement...he was inside Manda long enough to survive the explosion, but if there was no explosion, I wonder what he would've done while floating around in his head. Let's say Sasuke doesn't control Gama. He'll still dumbfound him the way he did Manda, making him useless.

As for Naruto beating Orochimaru...so did Sasuke. He didn't use brute force or alot of chakra, but neither did he break a sweat. CS2 was needed to avoid being body-jacked. And now that he has Oro's healing abilities, well...if 4-tailed Naruto gets any licks in, they won't be lethal.

So yeah, till Naruto's plotkai kicks in, he's still boned.

[Draffut]

You think that Sasuke could control Gamabunta, given that gamabunta is a king-level summon, and one that Sasuke has not signed a contract with?

I dont think that, Ninja believes it becuase SAsuke managed to Genjutsu Manda, he can mind control Gamabunta. No, I dont see the link either.

edit-

Yes, but Deidara shrugged off the genjutsu, then shut his other eye so he wouldn't be affected again. The genjutsu still failed.

Which one are you talking about? The one that Sasuke Genjutsu'd a fake Deidara (I think the real Deidara was hiding in his bird at the time)? Or one I am forgettting (A chapter number would be good)

Never said Kyuubi was active during that time. That's the point I'm makeing: prepare for it before Naruto gets the chance to form any tails (like he did already).

Naruto was exhausted from going 4 tails, and alot of Kyuubi's enegry expended. Goign in before Neruto goes any number of tails wont make a difference. if anything, he is better off waiting till Naruto is tired.

Then FRS...Rasengan is already stronger than Chidori, but Sasuke has no problem countering it with a B Class jutsu. A C-rank might not beat an S-Rank, but the boost from CS2 fixes that, probably boosting it a rank or 2 (when he did the CS2 Chidori, it was obviously alot stronger than it normally is, I don't see why the same can't happen with Goukakkyu).

What are you talkign about? Kakashi explicitly stated that to stop that powerful of an S-class jutsu, you would need an almost equally powerful jutsu of the opposing element. Sasuke has not shown this. the ONLY Katon to shown this is Amaterasu. goign CS2 just makes it alittle bigger, and does not increase it's rank or it's stopping ability by much.

Sasuke has not shown a fire jutsu able to stop a S rank wind jutsu. And as Kakashi also stated, you have to be aligned to an element to acheive the top power S ranked jutsu's of it. Sasuke is aligned with Lightning, so unless he is dual element, it is impossible for him to achieve the required rank fire jutsu. He can only use top level lightning jutsu's, and easily counter any earth ones with them.

And with the Gamabunta statement...he was inside Manda long enough to survive the explosion, but if there was no explosion, I wonder what he would've done while floating around in his head. Let's say Sasuke doesn't control Gama. He'll still dumbfound him the way he did Manda, making him useless.

Naruto knows how to break Genjutsu's on his teammates. He could easily touch Gamabunta, and Sasuke's genjutsu is rendered negligible.

As for Naruto beating Orochimaru...so did Sasuke. He didn't use brute force or alot of chakra, but neither did he break a sweat. CS2 was needed to avoid being body-jacked. And now that he has Oro's healing abilities, well...if 4-tailed Naruto gets any licks in, they won't be lethal.
So yeah, till Naruto's plotkai kicks in, he's still boned.

I'll phrase this as nicely as possible. If you seriously believe anything stated in this quote, your an idiot. At least the rest of your post was pretty logical.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Never said Kyuubi was active during that time. That's the point I'm makeing: prepare for it before Naruto gets the chance to form any tails (like he did already).

If Naruto flys into a rage and activates four (or more) tails, i don't see Sasuke stopping that...

As for Genjutsu, prove to me Naruto has the same ability to counter Genjutsu that Deidara has. You forget that Deidara spent a long time trying to learn to see through Genjutsu, and even then he only trained one eye.

Naruto shrugged off a 30% Itachi genjutsu after a short time, 30% Itachi is many many more times capable at genjutsu than Sasuke (as proven in the latest chapter, he had Sasuke under a genjutsu the whole time)

Then FRS...Rasengan is already stronger than Chidori, but Sasuke has no problem countering it with a B Class jutsu. A C-rank might not beat an S-Rank, but the boost from CS2 fixes that, probably boosting it a rank or 2 (when he did the CS2 Chidori, it was obviously alot stronger than it normally is, I don't see why the same can't happen with Goukakkyu).

FRS destroyed two of Kakuza's lives, CS2 chidori killed Deidara (a clone, anyway - it would have killed him.) bear in mind Kakuza's earth armour (i forget my naruelements, but i don't think earth is weak to wind, and we have FRS being stronger than Chidori (sasuke's most powerful attack) with Sasuke at his highest level and Naruto not even dawing on Kyuubi's power. Sasuke would need to pour all of his power into a K:GnJ to have it burn out FRS - there's a reason one is an S rank and one is a B. And CS2 does not "boost jutsu by 2 levels", that's total speculation. I'd wager a normal kakashi Raikiri (s rank) being stronger than a CS2 Chidori (which you say is SS rank...)

For the clones I said "bombarding Sasuke with clones never worked before" not "Sasuke can totally tell the difference between Naruto and his clones".

Mostly anime filler - a lot was inserted into the waterfall fight that actually wasn't there. And the Kage Bunshins never win fights anyway - they are not a deciding factor.

The point I was making is he destroys dozens of Naruto's clones without any of them posing a real threat. Same for this fight.

See above.

And with the Gamabunta statement...he was inside Manda long enough to survive the explosion, but if there was no explosion, I wonder what he would've done while floating around in his head. Let's say Sasuke doesn't control Gama. He'll still dumbfound him the way he did Manda, making him useless.

Er, no, you're just being a fanboy. Sasuke would not be able to "mind control" Gamabunta. I hope you realise you're implying that Sasuke could dominate a kage-level summon...

As for Naruto beating Orochimaru...so did Sasuke.

I go into a cancer ward and beat up a dying man, that would mean i own him in his prime. Nice logic. And FYI, Sasuke LOST the material battle, but he won the mental battle (the one that ultimately counted.)

He didn't use brute force or alot of chakra, but neither did he break a sweat.

Er, read the chapters again. I think your peanut brain is clouded by fanboyingitis. Sasuke felt the need to go CS2 (which would mean he was using force, and chakra.)

CS2 was needed to avoid being body-jacked.

Show me where it states this... Sasuke not getting bodyjacked was because he won the internal battle... does CS2 amplify (unexplained) mental powers?



And now that he has Oro's healing abilities, well...if 4-tailed Naruto gets any licks in, they won't be lethal.


Well, Orochimaru felt the need to summon THREE DEMON GATES, explicitly stating that if the attack hit him HE WOULD DIE, so i would say 4tnKn would be pretty ****ing lethal to Sasuke. Seriously, how can you be so dense? "they won't be lethal", sheesh. Do you actually read the whole manga, or just the pages with Sasuke on it?


So yeah, till Naruto's plotkai kicks in, he's still boned.

Actually, Sasuke has been the one using plotkai, far more than Naruto.



....

=\

You know you have to read the whole manga, not just the pages with your sex idol on it?


NOTE: Please read Draffut's post, above. He explained some of my points in a different view.

[Draffut]

Naruto shrugged off a 30% Itachi genjutsu after a short time, 30% Itachi is many many more times capable at genjutsu than Sasuke (as proven in the latest chapter, he had Sasuke under a genjutsu the whole time)

Sakura and Chiyo broke him out of that genjutsu.

[Seff vi Britannia]

:O, my bad. Bad memory ftl.

[ninjabot]

As for the Genjutsu, Draffut is right, Sakura used Kai on Naruto to break the Genjutsu: he never got out of it.

For the Rasengan, I see I can't use words like "could, probably, or most likely" with you...see, when I use those words, it means "halt: the next thing that you read will be speculation, and should be thought about before replied to, and even then, taken with a grain of salt." See, I was using the logic that genin Sasuke's C rank Goukakkyu isn't as strong as Kakashi or Itachi's C-rank Goukakkyu. But, post-skip Sasuke, with an increase in chakra (and another increase with CS2) could possibly pull a stronger Goukakkyu that makes it more effective than a C rank. For Draffut, Uchiha normally have Fire as an element, and Kakashi says nin with kekkei genkai normally have 2 chakra allignments. I'm sure Sasuke is both Fire and Lightning alligned. Naruto states Sasuke has Fire and Lightning aswell in the same chapter.

Back to my answer with Gama...why exactly will a jutsu that works on Manda...a more difficult beast to subdue; not work against Manda? Furthermore, I retracted my "Sasuke mind controls Gama" and replaced it with "Sasuke dumbfounds Gama like he did Manda" and you ignored it and replied with something about mind control again? Draffut's reason made sense, because Naruto has done it before. And inorder for Sasuke not to connect with the genjutsu to begin with, Gama would have to be of higher-level than Manda. Anti-fanboyism is just as frowned upon as fanboyism...or should be.

When you lose a fight, it's because someone either physically struck you into submission, place you in a state where you can't fight back, or you forfiet. Neither happened in the Sasuke vs. Orochimaru fight. Sasuke attacked a weak Sannin, not Genin, and he eliminated any chance of said sickly man from countering with jutsu. And I know what Oro said about that chakra blast Naruto performed. The blast he willingly waited to see if his gates could prevent. No one who's as good at Shunshin as Sasuke would sit there the way Oro did. The most 4-tail would connect with is a tail swipe, shockwave roar, or claw. You're saying those are fatal? What about the roar Kabuto was hit with?

And please make your next posts without any insults in them. I've been called an idiot, a peanut brain, and dense. We can be more mature about this.

[Seff vi Britannia]

See, I was using the logic that genin Sasuke's C rank Goukakkyu isn't as strong as Kakashi or Itachi's C-rank Goukakkyu. But, post-skip Sasuke, with an increase in chakra (and another increase with CS2) could possibly pull a stronger Goukakkyu that makes it more effective than a C rank.


I'd like to see Itachi pull a goukyaku that could stop FRS. It is implied to be an amazing strong attack - and we've seen that with Kakuzu. Until Sasuke can come anywhere doing the same damage to an Akatsuki of Kakuzu's level with Goukakayuu, i refuse to believe it can quench FRS.


Back to my answer with Gama...why exactly will a jutsu that works on Manda...a more difficult beast to subdue; not work against Manda?

I think you mean Gamabunta, not Manda. :P
And it wouldn't work for a few reasons.
1. Sasuke does not have a frog contract, while he does have a snake contract. (proof, summoning snakes. See Deidara battles, there is multiple examples. Along with Manda...)
I seriously doubt the technique could be used on a kage-level creature of a domain that has no relationship to the user.

Furthermore, I retracted my "Sasuke mind controls Gama" and replaced it with "Sasuke dumbfounds Gama like he did Manda" and you ignored it and replied with something about mind control again?

mind control/manipulation, w/e. Sasuke couldn't pull it on Gamabunta like he did with Manda.

Anti-fanboyism is just as frowned upon as fanboyism...or should be.

You saying that four tail Kyuubi naruto's attacks aren't fatal is why people frown upon fanboys like you so much.

When you lose a fight, it's because someone either physically struck you into submission, place you in a state where you can't fight back, or you forfiet. Neither happened in the Sasuke vs. Orochimaru fight. Sasuke attacked a weak Sannin, not Genin, and he eliminated any chance of said sickly man from countering with jutsu.

Er, Sasuke went CS2 and was still overcome by Orochimaru's "true form." , thus letting Orochimaru initiate the jutsu, which Sasuke countered, resulting in Orochimaru's loss. Had Orochimaru wanted to kill Sasuke rather than take his body, he could have done.

And I know what Oro said about that chakra blast Naruto performed. The blast he willingly waited to see if his gates could prevent.

Wether he waited or not, it still would have killed him.

No one who's as good at Shunshin as Sasuke would sit there the way Oro did.

I don't think it would matter against an attack like that. I don't remember Orochimaru harming 4tkn either.

The most 4-tail would connect with is a tail swipe, shockwave roar, or claw.

Only if Sasuke is stupid enough to get close. (which he is.) And i think you're forgetting about Naruto's massive AOE chakra waves.

You're saying those are fatal? What about the roar Kabuto was hit with?

One hit screwed Sakura over pretty bad. One blast would have killed Orochimaru if it had hit. (naruto screwed Oro over pretty good anyway). He destroyed a bridge effortlessley.

And please make your next posts without any insults in them. I've been called an idiot, a peanut brain, and dense. We can be more mature about this.

As long as you continue to say idiotic things that aggravate the "common sense" or "proved facts" part of my brain, i will continue to express my fustration.




Seriously, some of your points are just plain retarded.


Just to help you out, here is the chapter in which Naruto, unable to move and with seemingly very little effort, smashes through THREE of Orochimaru's strongest defensive jutsus. (Orochimaru being at full strength here btw, not near death like when he fought Sasuke. )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoH-Ua3Xvkg&NR=1


This is the chapter in which the Kusangi sword, the most powerful sword in the Naru-verse, fails to harm four tails Kyuubi naruto. This is also the chapter in which Orochimaru begins to weaken due to rejection. Here, Naruto knocks out Sakura with one hit (bear in mind the amount she took during the Sasori fight!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmItkBe7nlU&NR=1

[ninjabot]

It was Sasuke's Sharingan that confused Manda, not his bloodline pact with him. I said "if Naruto summons Gama". I think you keep coming back to that because you think I'm implying that Sasuke would summon Gama. If so, slow down and stop trying so hard. I'll try to say it in different way: Whatever Sharingan Genjutsu Sasuke used against the Sannin level Manda inorder to make him weather the explosion, should work on a summon of equal or lesser level. Once again, yes it is the snake pact that allowed Sasuke to summon Manda, but that's not what allowed him to enter his mind.

I'm aware of both those Kyuubi feats, thanks anyway. When I said "shockwave roar", that's what I meant, the AOE effect. I saw Kabuto fall over and heal his wound (didn't die), and I saw Sakura hit her head on the bridge and get knocked out. From the head trauma, mind you. Still didn't die. Non-fatal attacks.

You don't think it'd matter that Shunshin would allow Sasuke to dodge that projectile? Ok. No use going further with that one, sense it's "retarded". I'm also aware of the Kusanagi sword thing, hence not saying anything about it.

And being frustrated because I'm not easily convinced doesn't give you the right to namecall. You've got to be atleast a teenager, so you've got better sense than that. You can express that frustration without being disrespectful. Try it out, it's not that hard.

[Vaizard]

This is going thrillingly I'd say ... Sasuke .... I mean , Naruto has improved alot ... but can Naruto kill Orochimaru like Sasuke did?

[Draffut]

For the Rasengan, I see I can't use words like "could, probably, or most likely" with you...see, when I use those words, it means "halt: the next thing that you read will be speculation, and should be thought about before replied to, and even then, taken with a grain of salt." See, I was using the logic that genin Sasuke's C rank Goukakkyu isn't as strong as Kakashi or Itachi's C-rank Goukakkyu. But, post-skip Sasuke, with an increase in chakra (and another increase with CS2) could possibly pull a stronger Goukakkyu that makes it more effective than a C rank. For Draffut, Uchiha normally have Fire as an element, and Kakashi says nin with kekkei genkai normally have 2 chakra allignments. I'm sure Sasuke is both Fire and Lightning alligned. Naruto states Sasuke has Fire and Lightning aswell in the same chapter.

No he didn't. Kakashi stated that most Jounin are proficient in using 2 types of jutsu. Some more. What he also stated is that, the only way to be aligned with more then 1 element is to have a bloodline that supplies it. Yamoto is an example of this, as he was aligned to both earth and water *becuase of the 1st Hokage's bloodline*.

There is a difference between being proficient and alligned in this series.

Kakashi states that Sasuke is *aligned* to Lightning. Naruto speculates that he is dual aligned, Kakashi did not confirm nor deny this. (Though he would quite the anomolly if he was)

Then, later in the Kakuzu fight, Kakashi says that it should be impossible for someone to use S rank jutsu's of so many different elements. Chiefly beucase you need to be aligned with said element to use S rank jutsu's of it. We later discovered this was becuase Kakuzu had multiple hearts, all alligned to different elements.

Back to my answer with Gama...why exactly will a jutsu that works on Manda...a more difficult beast to subdue; not work against Manda? Furthermore, I retracted my "Sasuke mind controls Gama" and replaced it with "Sasuke dumbfounds Gama like he did Manda" and you ignored it and replied with something about mind control again? Draffut's reason made sense, because Naruto has done it before. And inorder for Sasuke not to connect with the genjutsu to begin with, Gama would have to be of higher-level than Manda. Anti-fanboyism is just as frowned upon as fanboyism...or should be.

All Sasuke did was create a genjutsu to temporarily stun Manda into not noticing he was in the middle of an explosion. Granted, it was a very powerful genjutsu, though it doesn't seam to last long. Since as soon as Suigetsu summoned Manda, it had already broken. Sasuke is able to Genjutsu Gamabunta, but it may not last very long, considering how hard that must be.

When you lose a fight, it's because someone either physically struck you into submission, place you in a state where you can't fight back, or you forfiet. Neither happened in the Sasuke vs. Orochimaru fight. Sasuke attacked a weak Sannin, not Genin, and he eliminated any chance of said sickly man from countering with jutsu. And I know what Oro said about that chakra blast Naruto performed. The blast he willingly waited to see if his gates could prevent. No one who's as good at Shunshin as Sasuke would sit there the way Oro did. The most 4-tail would connect with is a tail swipe, shockwave roar, or claw. You're saying those are fatal? What about the roar Kabuto was hit with?

Actually, before Orochimaru enters Sasuke's mind, you can see he has paralyzed Sasuke with his blood from when he is cut in half. I am pretty sure that is "struck into submission" concidering Sasuke could not so much as move. Sasuke had to extensivly usatlize both Sharingan and CS2, in an extensive battle, to defeat orochimaru, while he was croppled. and Sasuke got the jump on him.

This is nothing spectacular, nor inadequate. It was a logical progression.

KN4 on the other hand, tore Orochimaru in half through 3 gates, with one single attack. Had Yamoto not interfered, Naruto would have probobly gained anotuehr tail and killed Orochimaru outright. Beyond this, Nothing Orochimaru had shown was even able to phase KN4. we have not seen much of anything with more armor-pieceing power then Orochimaru's Kusanagi, so what makes you think he Sasuke anything that could so much as injure Naruto in that form?

And if you think that death blast the only thing KN4 is capable of, you're silly. Are we to assume that Sasuke ONLY knows the snake summons, genjutsu's, shunshin, and chidori's he has shown so far, and absolutly nothing else? I know you woudln't, so why do you think that the energy blast is all KN4 can do?

This is going thrillingly I'd say ... Sasuke .... I mean , Naruto has improved alot ... but can Naruto kill Orochimaru like Sasuke did?

If Naruto snuck up on Orochimaru like Sasuke did. Then FRS'd Orochimaru before he could defend himself, Orochimaru would have died right there, end of story.

Otherwise, it would have been a tough fight.

I'm aware of both those Kyuubi feats, thanks anyway. When I said "shockwave roar", that's what I meant, the AOE effect. I saw Kabuto fall over and heal his wound (didn't die), and I saw Sakura hit her head on the bridge and get knocked out. From the head trauma, mind you. Still didn't die. Non-fatal attacks.

KN4 roars, Saske gets knocked over. KN4 Death blasts, Sasuke still recoving, gets hit, dies.

You don't think it'd matter that Shunshin would allow Sasuke to dodge that projectile? Ok. No use going further with that one, sense it's "retarded". I'm also aware of the Kusanagi sword thing, hence not saying anything about it.

Shunshin is very chakra intensive. how long do you think Sasuke can dodge blasts of that magnitude? Until he shows somethig nto slow KN4 down, I have to give this to him, as Sasuke will run low on chakra and slow down, and Naruto will gian more tails and get even deadlier.

Though, for the subject, I was attempting to ignore the KN4 thing, becuase naruto is makign the effort to fight without Kyuubi for now on. If he does go tails again, I hope someone who can stop it is around, or he will keep goign until it kills him.

KN4 >>>>>> Sasuke > Naruto

[Jay3205]

At this point, Sasuke would severely beat Naruto. He can just supress the Kyuubi chakra, and there will be nothing more Naruto can really do to put a defense. Sasuke is superior at taijutsu and genjutsu. Naruto would never land a rasengan due to sharingan.

[Jin]

Sasuke killed an old man who was DYING and about to DIE.

Here are some Naruto facts that may help each argument:

Kusanagi Sword is supposed to cut through anything.
Sakura was one hit ko'ed by Naruto.
Naruto was NOT in his right mind, he was all instinct.
Orochimaru was avoiding him the best he could, using his most powerful Jutsu which were easily beaten by Naruto. If there was contact, Orochimaru = dead.

Naruto killed Kakuzu twice on his iron/earth skin.

Elements:

Fire > Wind
Wind > Lightning
Water > Fire
Lightning > Earth
Earth > Water

So, Naruto use the FRS against an element that's neither effective nor ineffective. Though, try blowing on a rock and see if it moves.

Sasuke compressed th Kyuubi chakra because Naruto was ON the floor, FIGHTING with the Kyuubi in his mind, NOT transforming, and VERY vulnerable.

Note: Naruto seems to have gotten smarter. Just sayin'.

Also note: In 4-tailed mode, Naruto didn't move the whole time. (If I recall correctly.) He actually began a mini-crater due to the massive chakra pressure, he was going deeper and deeper into the ground. Also, look at how large and powerful that blast was. He was hit by the Kusanagi sword, the object that's supposed to be able to cut anything, at point-blank range, pushed about a half a mile backwards (guessing) and was unscathed.

[Draffut]

One thign about that stuff (though it is pretty much right on)

i dont think Kakuzu had his Iron skin up when Naruto FRS'd him, unless I missed it. He was basically all tenticles at the time...

[Vaizard]

I must admit I dont want this to turn into an arguement , but I just have a question : Naruto or Sasuke? Sasuke = I , Naruto = Aye , say one of these two please let me see who votes who ... cause some of you sound like u saying that both of them win or some weird thing

[Draffut]

I know I have been argueing mostly pro-naruto, but Sasuke would win this bout. As i said before, mostly becuase of the fact Naruto can't stop or counter any Genjutsu Sasuke uses. Though if Naruto actually went KN3+, he would win.

So.... I

[Jin]

Unless Naruto went tailed, Sasuke would have this one.

[6thEspada]

though sasuke seems superior at the moment i think naruto can still whoop his ass....like naruto is a beast with 4 tails and the kyuubi's chakra is possibly limitless so if naruto went all out sasuke would be dun for good so....aye

[Bankai_Zangetsu]

sasuke ... although id prefer naruto to win

[Vaizard]

Ahh , dont remember ? 30% Itachi vs Naruto ? Naruto learned to send back the chakra and negate the effects of genjutsu

[Jin]

Yeah, he TRIED to do it, but it failed. He would have been killed if Chiyo and Sakura didn't touch him.

[Seff vi Britannia]

no tails versus Sasuke, Sasuke wins, obviously.

But there's just no way that Sasuke can fight can fight something like 4tkn. It knocked out Sakura (someone shown to have a fair amount of endurance - see Sasori fight.) in one hit, it took the Kusangi sword - PROBABLY THE STRONGEST WEAPON SHOWN SO FAR - without taking any damage (therefore Sasuke's sword, a mere Kusangi replica, cannot even touch Naruto.) not only that, if 4tkn can blast through three rashomons (one of the strongest defensive techniqus we've been shown.) then it can sure as hell blast through Manda,so Sasuke can scratch that.


basically, tailed Naruto is just way too powerful for Sasuke.

And something tell me genjutsu wouldn't work on Kyuubi, considering that Kyuubi defeated the Hokou, the tailed beast with the strongest competence in illusions. (see Here (http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=57918))
and as all the naruto beasts are based off these, i'd say that would mean illusions don't do shit to Kyuubi. And even if Sasuke CAN Genjutsu him, what then? He can't damage him, so theres little point.

And anyone who says that Kyuubi's attacks aren't fatal better have some damn strong fire resistance armour on.

[ninjabot]

One more statement about the Genjutsu Sasuke used against Manda: couldn't it be that the reason it didn't last long is because, as was already stated, he was out of chakra? He may have been able to make it last longer if he had more chakra to waste toward it, but we won't know unless he pulls it off while he's fresh.

And yeah, Kakashi doesn't confirm or deny that Sasuke has 2 alignments.

And don't get me wrong, like I said before, I'm aware of the amount of damage 4-tail could do, hence the beginning of my explanation in my first post was about preventing it to begin with. I'm just saying it's not as simple as 4-tail rages, hits Sasuke and kills him (unless he was pre-kyuubified to begin with). Even after 4-tailed comes into play, the fight comes down to "will Sasuke get hit by a shockwave roar, long-range claw or chakra bullet before kyuubi is fully released and Naruto dies."

I would agree about Kyuubi being immune to Genjutsu aswell, but where does Naruto's conscience go during the switch in power? It could be possible that Sasuke could still enter his mind, only to re-awaken Naruto, sending Kyuubi back into his seal. Speculation again ofcourse.

But yeah, I.

[Draffut]

Ninja, KN4 is a beat of pure instinct. If it shot one death blast, and saw it couldn't hit Sasuke with it, it would immediatly chase him down and tear him to shreads with it's claws. Or use what ever other attacks it has to ream him a new one.

Pein and Yondaime are the only ones to have shown they might have the ability to stand up to KN4. I seriously dont think you are tryign to say Sasuke is above either of them.

[Vaizard]

no tails versus Sasuke, Sasuke wins, obviously.

But there's just no way that Sasuke can fight can fight something like 4tkn. It knocked out Sakura (someone shown to have a fair amount of endurance - see Sasori fight.) in one hit, it took the Kusangi sword - PROBABLY THE STRONGEST WEAPON SHOWN SO FAR - without taking any damage (therefore Sasuke's sword, a mere Kusangi replica, cannot even touch Naruto.) not only that, if 4tkn can blast through three rashomons (one of the strongest defensive techniqus we've been shown.) then it can sure as hell blast through Manda,so Sasuke can scratch that.

Yeah it's really true , remember before 2.5yrs ? Naruto vs Sasuke? Sasuke almost lost when Naruto went 1 tailed

[ninjabot]

Not exactly what I'm trying to say, but the difference between those two and 4-tail Naruto is that beasts don't have the capability to strategize. Hence, once Kyuubi is pissed because every time it's opponent dissapears as he attempts to attack it, it will get madder and madder, gaining more and more tails until it's set free and Naruto dies. Granted, Sasuke can't Shunshin forever like you said. Good thing by the time his chakra runs dry he switches to CS2 and flys out of range.

But yeah, since everyone here, even those that voted for Naruto, agrees the fight is won by Sasuke if 4-tail doesn't come into play...that means we're done here, right?

[Seff vi Britannia]

Ninja, KN4 is a beat of pure instinct. If it shot one death blast, and saw it couldn't hit Sasuke with it, it would immediatly chase him down and tear him to shreads with it's claws. Or use what ever other attacks it has to ream him a new one.
Pein and Yondaime are the only ones to have shown they might have the ability to stand up to KN4. I seriously dont think you are tryign to say Sasuke is above either of them.

Wrong. Naruto can't move in his four-tailed state, although i would imagine this restriction is lifted at higher levels due to the increase in power. However, Sasuke has no long ranged attacks that would harm Naruto (i mean, he has no short-ranged ones either but meh...) Wheras Naruto has been shown to have devastating long range AND close range attacks.

Just pointing out that Naruto is immobile in his four-tailed state unless someone else moves him (ala Orochimaru)

[ninjabot]

Has that been officially stated? I thought that might have been just because he purposefully stayed stationary because he was taking the time to charge up that condensed chakra...if you're right, that makes the "wait out Naruto's death from Kyuubi's full release" even more possible, depending on how far he can stretch his claws.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Yes, it is hypothesised by *i think* Orochimaru, that the chakra around Naruto makes it difficult for him to move in that form.

And your "wait for Naruto's death" theory sucks, for several reasons.

1. This battle allows Naruto to go up to four tails only.
2. If Naruto went into 5-6-7-8-9 tails, i think the strength from Kyuubi would override the difficulty to move.
3. Naruto's claws in one tails could stretch (the chakra, anyway) and rip apart rocks/small mountains. We've been shown he is capable of a very long-range chakra beam, and this seemed to take little effort , leaving to me surmise that it was not naruto's strongest technique.

Sorry ninja, but i don't think your hero can win this battle.

[ninjabot]

"My hero" has won already, so I bring the question up once more...is there any reason to go anyfurther?

[mangaman16]

If only naruto could land a fuuton rasengan properly and actually hit sasuke well it would be over for sasuke but otherwise i think sasuke beats him in other categories.Also naruto has loads of charkra ,rasengan,kyuubi and his frogs but nothing else.Kishi has made sasuke overpowerful and he has an overused sharingan,genjutsus,lightning attacks and fire jutsus,probally some of orochimaru's techniques and that sword he has.Compare all of those to what naruto can do.Sasuke has been made too overpowerful imo.

[Seff vi Britannia]

"My hero" has won already, so I bring the question up once more...is there any reason to go anyfurther?

He's won before, dosen't mean he'll win now. Theres plenty of examples. Ichigo and Byakuya would be one. Ichigo and Grimmjow would be another.

I don't think your tiny mind is grasping the whole:

"KYUUBI IS THE MOST POWERFUL CREATURE THAT EXISTS IN THE NARUTOVERSE" thing

[ninjabot]

Not what I meant (I find myself saying this to you often. Huh.). I'm gonna have to ask you one last time to calm down, read what I said, think about it, then reply to me with the same respect I'm giving you. If you can't do that, then we're done. This is the last time I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Ready?

This particular fight, the one that even you agreed Sasuke wins on. I said "Sasuke already won THIS fight. The one we're talking about RIGHT NOW. The one where you agreed that Sasuke wins if Naruto can't reach 4-tail. The same that everyone else, even those who voted for Naruto has agreed on. We've stated to death how powerful 4-tail can be, how effective his attacks can be, and how Naruto will be finished before reaching said levels. So in all honesty, you can let it go.

Let it go.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Ok, so you're saying Naruto will die before Reaching four tails?

It takes Sasuke more time to reach CS2 than it does for Naruto to release tails...

So you are wrong, YET AGAIN. And no, i won't treat you with ANY respect whatsoever, because your views are stupid and nonsensical, if you want me to be honest.

You tell me how Sasuke can possibly beat four-tails Naruto and i just might respect your views. =\

[Draffut]

Wrong. Naruto can't move in his four-tailed state, although i would imagine this restriction is lifted at higher levels due to the increase in power. However, Sasuke has no long ranged attacks that would harm Naruto (i mean, he has no short-ranged ones either but meh...) Wheras Naruto has been shown to have devastating long range AND close range attacks.
Just pointing out that Naruto is immobile in his four-tailed state unless someone else moves him (ala Orochimaru)

Where did it say 4 tailed naruto cannot move? Just cuase he stayed in his crater doesn't mean he cannot move at all... It's painful and everything concidering KN4 slowly kills him...

And who said KN9 would kill Naruto, or that Yondaime's seal will completely break to release that far. It may very well stop at 6 or 8 becuase of the seal, we just havn't gotten to see it yet. i mean, the seal on Kyuubi's cage isn;t COMPLETELY gone yet.

[KholdStare]

Where did it say 4 tailed naruto cannot move? Just cuase he stayed in his crater doesn't mean he cannot move at all... It's painful and everything concidering KN4 slowly kills him...
And who said KN9 would kill Naruto, or that Yondaime's seal will completely break to release that far. It may very well stop at 6 or 8 becuase of the seal, we just havn't gotten to see it yet. i mean, the seal on Kyuubi's cage isn;t COMPLETELY gone yet.


Hmm, well the next chapter is all about the seal of the Kyuubi weakening (if the spoilers are true) so it may offer some insight to this argument. Naruto seems to have a "that" jutsu.


Seff, please don't flame him :(

[Draffut]

Hmm, well the next chapter is all about the seal of the Kyuubi weakening (if the spoilers are true) so it may offer some insight to this argument. Naruto seems to have a "that" jutsu.

Next chapter looks like one of the best ones in the series to date. it'll be epic.


Seff, please don't flame him :(

lol/

[Jin]

Being 4-tailed doesn't kill him, per se. It shortens his life-span so it's not going to have an IMMEDIATE effect. So, saying Naruto will die when reaching or becoming 4-tailed does not ring true.

[FullMetal Rebel]

Four tails= Game Over for Sasuke. Sasuke has all the advantages in the world over Naruto, buy if he goes four tails, forget about it! Hasn't been shown that Sasuke can stop active Kyuubi.

[Jeggo]

Kyuubi > Sasuke > Naruto. Its just soo damn ****ing pissing-me-off imba , that four tails thing.. I mean 4tails can > almost every single character. Close it....

[Draffut]

Kyuubi > Sasuke > Naruto. Its just soo damn ****ing pissing-me-off imba , that four tails thing.. I mean 4tails can > almost every single character. Close it....

Except it kills Naruto, and he can't control it, so it's not to "imba"

[Jeggo]

Except it kills Naruto, and he can't control it, so it's not to "imba"

even if it kills naruto it still makes him win the battle.

Lets see:

Sasori > Naruto ok? But if Naruto gets 4 tails it goes :
Naruto > Sasori.

Kisame > Naruto ok? But if Naruto gets 4 tails it goes :
Naruto > Kisame

Itachi > Naruto ok? But if Naruto gets 4 tails it goes :
Naruto > Itachi

Deidara > Naruto ok? But if Naruto gets 4 tails it goes :
Naruto > Deidara

Orochimaru > Naruto ok? But if Naruto gets 4 tails it goes :
Naruto > Orochimaru

( The above might not be verified by the manga , -- 4 tails never fought with most of them -- but its only logical that it beats them.. )

Thus , in a fight poll , its not that good to add 4 tails. I mean sharingan is too strong too , but nowhere as strong as kyuubi.

[KholdStare]

even if it kills naruto it still makes him win the battle.
Lets see:
Sasori > Naruto ok? But if Naruto gets 4 tails it goes :
Naruto > Sasori.
Kisame > Naruto ok? But if Naruto gets 4 tails it goes :
Naruto > Kisame
Itachi > Naruto ok? But if Naruto gets 4 tails it goes :
Naruto > Itachi
Deidara > Naruto ok? But if Naruto gets 4 tails it goes :
Naruto > Deidara
Orochimaru > Naruto ok? But if Naruto gets 4 tails it goes :
Naruto > Orochimaru
( The above might not be verified by the manga , -- 4 tails never fought with most of them -- but its only logical that it beats them.. )
Thus , in a fight poll , its not that good to add 4 tails. I mean sharingan is too strong too , but nowhere as strong as kyuubi.

Although the sharingan itself may not be near the 4 tails level, the combination of Sasuke's sharingan and his Cursed seals would place him way beyond normal Naruto. So it would not be fair to discount Naruto's Kyuubi if you wish to let Sasuke's CS and Sharingan remain as fair game.

Naruto with no Kyuubi is no match for Sasuke with the CS and sharingan and 4 tails Naruto would pwn Sasuke so you can't discount any of their powers.

[Bricks]

Naruto only uses i high level, high concetrated chakra jutsu. And he uses the same patern to get them off, which is hiding himself in Mass kagebushins. The good thing about naruto in this match-up is his high charka level, the fact that sasuke's attacks arent as strong as his, and the kyuubi.

Sasuke has shown a whole range of techniques. low level, intermediate level, and high level. His techniques arent as devastating as naruto's, but his quickness and ability to strategize balance it out. Sasuke also has kishi's god given eye called the sharingan, that aparantly makes you a god among men.

in the end.. they are almost evenly matched.

but sasuke has the edge due to his eyes, oh... and since the creator of the manga has a thing for him.

[Jay3205]

Current Sasuke would pwn current Naruto pretty badly. All Naruto uses are kage bunshin, rasengan, and taijutsu. It's impossible for him to use his level of taijutsu against a Sharingan user, and that also throws out many of his kage bunshin combos. Sharingan will also make it easy to dodge rasengan.

Also, some people are forgetting that Sasuke can supress Kyuubi, which he more than likely will if he starts having any difficulty.

[Jeggo]

Also, some people are forgetting that Sasuke can supress Kyuubi, which he more than likely will if he starts having any difficulty.

Its... not that simple... anyway

[Seff vi Britannia]

Indeed. Sasuke has never been shown to Surpress Kyuubi when Naruto has actually released tails.

4tkn > Sasuke. End of story. If the Kusangi blade can't harm 4tkn, nothing Sasuke has can.

[Tobi]

Indeed. Sasuke has never been shown to Surpress Kyuubi when Naruto has actually released tails.

4tkn > Sasuke. End of story. If the Kusangi blade can't harm 4tkn, nothing Sasuke has can.

Last time Naruto and Sasuke faught and went all out, Naruto was only 2 tails and Sasuke had only gotten his third tomoe in his Sharingan, obviously he hadn't of known how to suppress it then.

If Sasuke faught Naruto and he went 2 tails now, he could suppress it easily. And same goes for 4 tails.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Positive claim carries the burden of truth. ((Thanks Undying.))

So proove it.

[Jin]

Sasuke cannot suppress active Kyuubi and Naruto was only one tailed when they fought. If you think Sasuke can suppress active Kyuubi, I suggest you get your eyes examined, go to Sylvan Learning Center, and, 2-5 months later, reread the manga.

[Jeggo]

If the Kusangi blade can't harm 4tkn, nothing Sasuke has can.

Its not the Kusanagi Blade ( aka Orochimarus ''Lightsaber" - The Sword that cuts anything - ) Its just a cheap noobish copy.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Erm... yes, exactly.. and Orochimaru's Kusangi blade, THE REAL ONE, couldn't cut 4TKN.

((That's what i was trying to say, sorry.))

[Jeggo]

and Orochimaru's Kusangi blade, THE REAL ONE, couldn't cut 4TKN.


sadly , it is true yeah... The blade didnt do shit in 4TKN...

[kakerkaker]

i'm thinking naruto simply because he's on the light side and i can't decide, but if Sasuke had mangekyuu he would totally win

[Jay3205]

^^ Could you actually post real reasons for a decision. Voting for Naruto in the arena "cause he's good" is no better than voting for Sasuke "cause he's emo".

[Seff vi Britannia]

Not everybody participates in the actual debate, some just post their opinion. :)

[Jeggo]

^^ Could you actually post real reasons for a decision. Voting for Naruto in the arena "cause he's good" is no better than voting for Sasuke "cause he's emo".

thats a reason to NOT vote him. emos suck yay!

[Chi]

Is it me or does it seem that Sasuske has gotten rediculously strong while Naruto almost seems the same?

[BryanLicksYou]

naruto actually got pretty strong
and i'm guessing he's only going to get stronger

[Bamboobie]

Although, we haven't really seen what Naruto can do. Only what the Kyuubi can do. I believe their of equal strength, one way or another.

Also, both Naruto and Sasuke were trained by Sannin. Sasuke probably learned more forbidden jutsu, but Narto probably learned a lot of skills passed down from the 3rd hokage, and even the 4th.

[Bankai_Zangetsu]

naruto has gotten much stronger .. using his strength alone. as far as strength goes i think hes stronger than sasuke but has half the skills. he'll fight on par with sasuke soon enough

[BankaiMaster]

Naruto could of killed sasuke if he went 4th tail Or won if he summoned gammabunta

[Chi]

yeah but Sasuke can supress the Kyubi chakra with his sharingan so no he can't

naruto has gotten much stronger .. using his strength alone. as far as strength goes i think hes stronger than sasuke but has half the skills. he'll fight on par with sasuke soon enough
I didn't get that impression at all in the opening sequence of Shippuden and in the manga it looked Sasuke could kill all of them at once.

[D-King]

You should watch out with the double posting Love-chi.

And so another thread begins. Well, you have stated you've seen up to the Sasuke reunion fight, but have you read farther than that. At least up to the Hidan and Kakuzu arc?

[Chi]

i've read all the manga but am still not convinced that Naruto can fight on par with sasuke. Because am assuming that Sasuke took on all of Orochimaru's abilities as well as Jutsu's and Naruto is powerful but I don't think he's as good yet

[D-King]

He's not as good yet. I am not too sure about this anymore you know. I mean when was the last time you ever saw Naruto actually use Kyuubi's power to take someone down?

***************************SPOILERS AHEAD************************







I'm guessing you know of Jiraiya's death and of Kishimoto's interview am I right?

I believe Jiraiya's death plays a key role in the development of Naruto even more than the whole timeskip itself. Tying everything together, Kishi stated he'd mainly be writing about Sasuke and Kakashi this year and about Sakura also. He also stated Naruto needs to grow up AND Naruto will have to wait, which I believe are all hints.

Basically, I believe Naruto will have a miniature timeskip concerning himself i.e. while everything goes on with other people he went of training. As we know, Jiraiya was basically the only father figure Naruto had (Kakashi doesn't cut it) and despite his Sasuke obsessions, will most likely take Jiraiya's death harder than if Sasuke was to die.
I'm quite ecstatic to see how Jiraiya's death plays a factor in this whole story.




*************************END SPOILERS*********************8

So basically, during this year, I believe we will see Naruto excel to unprecedented levels of power (may even learn flying thunder god technique) and completely off the charts to Sasuke.

How should I state this plainly... a tale of Goku and Vegeta should suffice :)

[Darth Revan]

i would say sasuke would win because of the genjustu techniques that sasuke has but in an all out brawl naruto would win but if naruto can get away from the rasengan and do other thing that dont use the rasengan he would become even stronger the rasengan leaves him to open even the Fuuton Rasen Shuriken leaves him open also since he just now noticed his shadow clones retain information (which i still dont know how he never noticed) he can jump leaps and bounds now.

How should I state this plainly... a tale of Goku and Vegeta should suffice

have you notice almost every anime that has come after dbz that has some type of fighting are based off the dbz complex

[Rayster]

@Love-chi: Double posting is against the rules. Use the edit function next time please. I've merged the posts for you this time :)

[D-King]

have you notice almost every anime that has come after dbz that has some type of fighting are based off the dbz complex

Surprisingly enough, no I would not say that actually. After all, DBZ was not the first user of the friend/rival concept. It's just probably the most popularly known one.

However, I will use the contrast for Naruto as it surely tells the story future story of Naruto and Sasuke. Such is the I-saw-that--coming power of Shonen manga.

(lol, I just remembered as I predicted in DBZ when everyone else was busy fighting etc, Goku was in the capsule ship training. This was when he got relatively stronger than Vegeta and that could have definetely been seen. Remember Ginyu Force pwage? Viz's Shonen predictions for the win!:D)

[Chi]

Well still there's two and a half years he went to train with a sanin. I mean look at Sakura she went from incredibly annoying to being able to take down Sasori who took down the 3rd Kazekage and who knows who else. Sasuke took down deidara who can take down Gaara the 5th Kazekage and Orochimaru who killed the 3rd Hokage and is probably going to take down Itachi. All those guys can bring down Kage level ninja's all on their own and fight at an extremely high level. To see Naruto over the time skip come back at the level he currently is was.... disappointing i mean yeah he learned the Fūton: Rasenshuriken but he still needs clones which fighting any of those other guys is going to be pointless.

[Bamboobie]

You can't really say that Sakura is able to kill a Kage level ninja because she killed a ninja that killed a Kage level ninja. First off, she had help from Chiyo. The only reason she even stood a chance was because Chiyo had explained his weaknesses and whatnot.

Deidara had an advantage when fighting Gaara. He could fly in the air. Now if Sasuke was too attack Gaara, he'd probably have to go into curse seal mode to kill him.

[Chi]

You know I think sasuke is going to kill Itachi and that makes him pratically a sanin level ninja

[D-King]

Heaven forbid I ever hear the words "Sasuke-kun" from her mouth again.

And thats true about Sakura. Without Chiyo, correct me if I'm wrong, Sakura would have been dead from the time he was still in Hiruko if my memory of their fight serves me well.
As for Gaara and Sasuke, I believe Sasuke would have to use Cursed Seal to even have a chance to get BY Gaara. We have to remember that fight was handicapped and cheap, whereas Sasuke had no worries and no one to protect.

Using DBZ logic (think i like using it too much lol) again, Goku wasn't very impressive after all those years passed when Raditz appeared. But then things escalated and he put his mind to it and guess what? Super Saiyan!

[Jeggo]

Naruto's growth in the timeskip is more than Sasuke's.

Sasuke became a (probably) Kage-Level Ninja , from being in the level of a weak Jounin.

Naruto though , became strong Jounin-level from being a total brat. gg.

Stil , Sasuke would beat him T_T.

[Chi]

And thats true about Sakura. Without Chiyo, correct me if I'm wrong, Sakura would have been dead from the time he was still in Hiruko if my memory of their fight serves me well.



And i admit that but once they got passed Hiruko Chiyo didn't help her that much, you had to have seen that. I mean when she got serious about fighting Sasori after the blowing up something to get out of the gas she was incredible. In the first part of Naruto she wouldn't have been worth dick in a fight to actually be the one fighting against someone like that is incredible to me.

Also i wouldn't call sasuke a weak jounin level ninja maybe a chunin. Also your right about Naruto he does need to grow up more. And I won't deny he's growth it just seems that again compared to Sasuke's growth Sasuke would kill him without much effort at all.

[Dokuro]

Maybe Naruto will win now because he is pretty strong now. Maybe He Can Win Sasuke With The Kyuubi's Chakra but If He dont has that Kyuubi Chakra, he will lose and become weaker.

[D-King]

@ Arika - wow...that's a pretty bland, grammatically wrong statement don't you think?

@ Loe-chi - I'm not really sure what I would call Sasuke but most definetely not Kage level. At most, I'd call him ANBU or Special jounin level *maybe*. In any case, we'll have to see how the next few weeks go in the manga as that will answer many of our questions.

However, for now, believe you me, Sasuke may be able to by chance take Naruto down "currently", however, the way the manga's pulling shit out of the hat like it' a joke, I have a bad feeling that Sasuke's gonna get owned, pwned or shamed by Naruto one way or another... and soon.

[Chi]

I can respect that, but we're learning that theres even more to the Mangekyou Sharingan because there's another version of it or something. so sasuke has so much room to grow. Not only is Sasuske fast but he can predict the enemy's movement in taijutsu and copy all forms of Ninjutsu, taijutsu and probably Genjutsu. But most incredibly is his cunning and battle know how, not to mention he has Resolve.

All those things i feel Naruto lacks but he's getting better. I mean from what i can gather he can barely do rasengan without having to use Kage Bushin.

Ok here let me ask this, how many people think that Naruto can beat Jaraya in a battle?
- by extension who here thinks that Naruto will actually b able to take on Pain when he comes after him?
- - I mean Naruto couldn't even get past tobi (Madara Uchiha and stands no chance against Itachi) as far as I can tell.

[ninjabot]

Most definitely not kage level, I agree. I mean seriously, who would lower him so many pegs as to compare him to a kage?

Seriously.

Oh. You meant that as in a "Sasuke isn't THAT powerful yet", am I right? Hmm.

Awkward...

Well, he singlehandedly defeated an Akatsuki, an S-rank villain. He's on his second right now, so...it's safe to say he's way past any form of Jounin, as Kakashi can't beat any member of Akatsuki, and he's the strongest Jounin we know of. Anbu is more of an elite stealth force type deal so I wouldn't put them too high on the brute power scale.

Sannin and Akatsuki alike are S-class ninja. Sasuke slays S-class ninja. So it's only logical to assume he's at the very least an S-class ninja. Or atleast an A+ ninja for all the haters out there.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Naruto's growth in the timeskip is more than Sasuke's.
Sasuke became a (probably) Kage-Level Ninja , from being in the level of a weak Jounin.
Naruto though , became strong Jounin-level from being a total brat. gg.
Stil , Sasuke would beat him T_T.


Actually, Sasuke went from being a genin-level ninja (hence why he was, er, a genin >_>.) to a jounin-level ninja.

Think about it; all his "impressive" victories have been due to plotkai.

Orochimaru: Orochimaru was on his deathbed, and Sharingan just so happened to be the counter to his technique.

Deidara: Sasuke would have died faster than you can say "lol" if he hadn't had lightning jutsu.

Sasuke being a Kage level ninja is simply absurd - you think he could beat Sandaime? Yondaime? Shodaime? Tsunade? Jiraiya? Full strength Orochimaru? Nope, didn't think so.

[Chi]

"Sannin and Akatsuki alike are S-class ninja. Sasuke slays S-class ninja. So it's only logical to assume he's at the very least an S-class ninja. "

Shikamaru defeated an S-class Ninja so by this logic Shikamaru is an S-class ninja? for that matter so did Sakura (I know a buch of people are gonna jump down my throat for this)

The truth is Sasuke learned all the Jutsu that Orochimaru learned all the forbiden jutsu's like the one we saw when he fought the third. And he even inherited all of the white snake's abilities when he consumed Orochimaru's essense he even said it in the manga right after he defeated deidara. A fight he won because he was smart enough to use the proper jutsu at the proper time despite being at a disadvantage,

Now i dunno if Sasuke can beat any of the Hokages, but at this time we have to assume that there are jutsu's that he knows that we haven't even seen him use yet. Like the one he was going to use on the Konoha ninjas before Orochimaru and Kabuto stopped him.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Shikamaru is a chuunin-level ninja. He exploited Hidan's weakness - that was all. Had Hidan struck Shikamaru, the battle would have gone very differentely.


And you call a dying Orochimaru an S-class ninja? I call him a DYING S-class ninja.


Watch as i, i scrawny 15 year old, go and beat up a boxing veteran who is bed stricken with cancer. Wait, that makes me a boxing champion, dosen't it?

WOHOOOO


And with Deidara - that battle was so full of absolute bs, lol. Suffice to say, Sasuke won solely because he had the exact element needed to beat Deidara. Same as why Chiyo and Sakura could beat Sasori, because both had perfect counters to his abilities (the antidote and the knowledge of his abilities.) Sakura isn't S class, and yes, i am a HUGE Sakura fanboy.

Sasuke isn't an S class ninja. And you think that any Akatsuki short of pein are as strong as Shoidame or Yondaime? Hell, Pein admitted Jiraiya would have beaten him if he'd known his secret.


And also, you're kidding me, right. You think Sasuke knows Orochimaru's kinjutsu? Rofl.

Yeah right, pigs will fly when Sasuke pulls Edo Tensei from his azz.

[Zanga]

Even then at the end of the battle, just as Sasuke is about to die from that last explosion, where is he little to no chakra and a split second to do anythign, he summons Manda.

MANDA. The Hokage level summon, but Naruto needed to tap into the Kyuubi to summon Gamabunta, which should require around the same amount of chakra.

[ninjabot]

Well, thanks Zanga. Yet another kage-level feat that Sasuke pulled off that I completely forgot about.

1:So we've got: beat an Akatsuki (might aswell say 2 now...) Deidara saw that Sasuke had lightning-element jutsus at the beginning of the fight, and didn't alter his battle strategy to compensate in the least. Plus, the lightning jutsu wasn't some kind of uber sure-kill S-rank omnipotent power. It was the way he used it, not the fact that it was lightning element.

2:Beat a Sannin (Oro could've used handseals, if his arms weren't pierced. He could've fought back if Sasuke didn't have the element of surprise. This same "deathbed Sannin" fought off two other Sannin without using any jutsu, so I'm supposed to think he's completely defenseless during that fight? Right. I'm guessing the paralyzing blood didn't work in his favor either.

The Shikamaru statement made sense though, touche. Sakura however wouldn't have been so effective without Chiyou there, and Shikamaru wouldn't have won without setting up that trap prior to the fight, or without haveing prior knowledge of his opponent's jutsu. He's like Batman: he can beat Superman, sure. But only if you give him a day of preperation and intel on the enemy.

To say that Sasuke was a Jounin would mean that his effectiveness in battle is only equal to people like Kakashi, Asuma, Gai, Neji, or Kurenai.

[Chi]

First of all in the earlier half of Naruto i would rank Sasuke at a high-level genin or even a Chuunin. The fact that none of the other two Sanin could beat orochimaru when he didn't have the ability to make handsigns is proof enough of his strength and sasuke took him down. Yeah he used a sneak attack but according to the series thats the perfect time for a ninja to strike. And to exploit the other person's weakness, in the ninja world that makes you stronger.

The other thing is to be fair, Kakashi's strong really strong! So don't underestimate him and say he coudn't take out an Akatsuki member.

The other thing i can say is Shikamaru is way smart and sense asuma died we've seen him develop new jutsu's in no time at all. And he had planed the trap but used the Shadow sewing jutsu to wrap the trap around Hidan so that was done in real time. Plus they already knew that that was shikamaru's ability so they underestimated him.

Sakura and Chiyo got a little lucky at the begining but even so they still beat Sasori and when she gets pissed off She has an insane amount of power and given how things have been developing there's no reason to think that she doesn't have a summon all of her own. And while fighting a pupped master maybe hard, it doesn't mean she wouldn't be able to take out another S-class rank ninja maybe not the Akatsuki themselves but others

My only other thing i can say is that pain's secret isn't so secret anymore, Tsunade has one of his bodies as well as the coded message Jaraya left on that frog's back. Even with all that I still don't see either Naruto or Sasuke taking him/them out.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Yeah, erm, killing somebody who is dying shows nothing of your strength.

You think Sasuke could have beaten a full strength Orochimaru? Ha...

[D-King]

lol, what I find even funnier is the fact that if Orohimaru hadn't been so greedy, Orochimaru on his deathbed would have STILL killed Sasuke. That pretty much says it for me...

And if you're really asking it (can't remember who) then fine. I, Vizard_Kin-chan, a.k.a. Viz/Vizzy/ VKC, do believe that Naruto will defeat Pein when the time comes for them to fight.

A statement I believe as much as I believe the sun will come out tomorrow.

[Chi]

Ok lets do this then, by Orochimaru's own addition Itachi is stronger then him, If sasuke beats Itachi hands down like he did with Deidara then that should settle it once and for all. And all you have to admit Sasuke's strength. If its a borderline victory then its eliminated. a Disqualification if you will.

[D-King]

Ok, let's be real. Kishi will NEVER allow a fight that was building up for so long to be BS'ed like Deidara's fight. Seriously.

Secondly, you can never rank, apparently sometimes, someone by who they defeat. A perfect example is Deidara's fight. Hell, it's pretty infamous for being a set up fight that was just purely F-ed up for him before they fight even began.

**********************MINOR BLEACH SPOILERS******************

Just like Byakuya and Zomari; Byakuya is strong and all no doubt, but that was the best possible match up for Byakuya as Zomari's technique basically made it seem like you have one round of ammo left against a whole army- just damn useless.

*************************END********************** ***********

[Jay3205]

Ok lets do this then, by Orochimaru's own addition Itachi is stronger then him, If sasuke beats Itachi hands down like he did with Deidara then that should settle it once and for all. And all you have to admit Sasuke's strength. If its a borderline victory then its eliminated. a Disqualification if you will.The fact that Sasuke can even compete with Itachi already puts him in a league above Naruto. The one Akatsuki that Naruto did beat was pretty much jounin level; he was only a threat because he needed to be killed multiple times. I don't hear anybody saying "Well Naruto is so good he could fight Itachi and have a decent chance of winning."

Since Sharingan can supress Kyuubi, the only chance Naruto has of winning is pretty much out the window. One uber technique isn't going to work against someone who's ridiculously faster, a far superior taijutsu user, and can predict any type of physical/chakra attack.

[ninjabot]

That's the point I'm making Vizard, that Oro was in no way in a position where he couldn't have won that fight. The fact that he could've pwned Sasuke while on his deathbed is testament to his skill and, by proxy, testament to Sasuke's.

Beating one S-rank ninja doesn't make you S-rank. Beating 2 might not either. But 3? Come on.

Also, ofcourse Naruto will beat Pein. If you know that, I'm sure you know who'll beat Madara then.

[Chi]

Okay, so it seems that Sasuke beat Itachi... though not as much in a glorious way as i thought...

Now there are rummors that Naruto is going to get Rinnegan so this brings this back to new levels or speculations...

[Chi]

hehe, but everyone is saying that after he learns of Jiraya's death he'll mature and grow up and yadi yada... but to me it seems that sasuke is going to obtain that perfect Sharringan from madara and will still be stronger then Naruto even if Naruto gets Rinnegan. Like how Madara is still stronger then Pein

[Kay™]

god mod eye
godmod skill
but sasuke chakra aint that big to use all of them at the same battle
if he didnt finish naruto quickly then gg fer him
but heck who knows....maybe naruto get some powerup too imao

[Chi]

well am not sure if the Rinnegan will be enough though, because with the Sharingan you can understand anykind of jutsu and perform them at a mirror pace no matter the element except kekei genkais... so the Rinnegan may not be enough

[Rayster]

/ threads merged

[Tensa Tensho]

sasuke would destroy naruto right now he shown he can block th kyubi and his techniques are better

[captainmawaluigi]

Right now, we dont know what Naruto nor Sasuke can do. Naruto just got powered up via Itachi....which may provide a trump card to take Sasuke and any Uchiha down. And Sasuke has the sharingan, to predict Narutos taijutsu and to surpress his 9 tailed demon.

[Chi]

Right now Sasuke's MS would annihilate Naruto right off of the planet. I can't wait to see him fight the 8 tails. XD

Now maybe when we figure out what these said sage arts really mean and if he can master them without the two froggies unlike Jiraya (perhaps thats more power for him) then maybe he has a chance... after all if Naruto Can beat 6 Pein's then i'll say that's more noteworthy then a dying Itachi.

SO for now Sasuke has it without a shred of doubt, but perhaps later Naruto may have a shot... may