Nell vs. Ulquiorra [manga spoilers]

[Axdsilva]

Funny little idea ain't it?

Hu do you think will win that?

[Undying]

Ulqiorra, IMO.

First of all, Nell lost her memories and was defeated by apparently one strike from Noitora "from behind". Can you imagine Ulqiorra losing to someone (who is then ranked LOWER than him) because of a single blow to the head? Doubtful.

Also, despite Nell's ranking she is obviously an early Espada: none of the current Espada beside Noitora recognized her. Neither did the Privaron, which implies that she was with the very first ones. Seeing as Noitora was (implied (by the illustration during Doldoni's speech about the Espada, which showed Noitora, Aaroniero, and someone else who looks very similar to Szayel) one of the first ones, her ranking would obviously be lower than it is: perhaps now she would be ranked fifth-sixth, but she's obviously not more powerful than Ulqiorra.

Also there is the personality story: Nell doesn't seem like the type to be a ruthless killer: her look is very soft (though determined) and she reacted to Ichigo's protectiveness - not something someone of Ulqiorra's breed would do.

So all in all, I put my money on Ulqiorra. If Noitora had enough power to beat you with a single strike, make you go chibi and lose your memories, then you're not as powerful as emoboy.

Oh and this needs to be manga spoilered... I shall change the title.

[Tablo.]

I'm judging this by the latest manga, which means chapter 191.

HOLY SHIT WTF? SHE'S THE THIRD ESPADA? THAT'S IRONIC! (huge boobs are awesome, though)

She won against Noitoira (Oh, screw it. I don't know how to spell that weirdo's name), that one is clear. And ulqy's 4! 3-4= NEGATIVE FRIGGIN' ONE!

....>.> Sorry.

But it seems right, though. Ulquiorra will be beaten.

If you're talking about the mini-nell...

Yeah, she'll be beaten.

[FullMetal Rebel]

Ulqiiorra.

1.Nell annoys me.
2.She is an early Espada.
3.She is naked(barely), would be pretty easy to cut her down.
4.It takes only 1-blow to the head to take her out from someone 2 ranks lower.
5.Ulquiorra pwns end of story.

[ShinjiHirako]

Nell.

1.It's payback time.She's fast.
2.Maybe Nnoitora is a ruthless cheater that's why she was bashed in the head.
3.We haven't seen her released form yet.
4.Nell eats Cero.Lawl.

[Decado]

Ulquiorra.
I'm judging this by the latest manga, which means chapter 191.
HOLY SHIT WTF? SHE'S THE THIRD ESPADA? THAT'S IRONIC! (huge boobs are awesome, though)
She won against Noitoira (Oh, screw it. I don't know how to spell that weirdo's name), that one is clear. And ulqy's 4! 3-4= NEGATIVE FRIGGIN' ONE!
....>.> Sorry.
But it seems right, though. Ulquiorra will be beaten.
If you're talking about the mini-nell...
Yeah, she'll be beaten.
No not mini-Nell. And that's "Nell" anyway.

Nell is a former Espada. Former Espada are weaker than ones just recently created due to the Hougyoku. Therefore, Ulquiorra is stronger.

I'm sure if Halibel is 3rd, she will beat Nell. (May be a reason she is already there)

[Guy]

I'd cheer for Ulquiorra, but it really does look like Nell would win this one. Well, I could be wrong, because we don't know for sure if Noitora is dead yet. But if he is, then Nell basically wtfpwned the fifth espada with little effort. If she faces Ulquiorra, it's possible that the fight might last longer... so I'd say Nell wins for the moment... barely. I mean, Ulquiorra did wtfpwn Vizard Ichigo at his max.

[Twister1352]

Ulquiorra.

No not mini-Nell. And that's "Nell" anyway.

Nell is a former Espada. Former Espada are weaker than ones just recently created due to the Hougyoku. Therefore, Ulquiorra is stronger.

I'm sure if Halibel is 3rd, she will beat Nell. (May be a reason she is already there)


Yes and no, How do you know she wasn't created by the hougyoku?? her #3 isn't scratched up so she probably just got transformed because of the huge hit from behind from noitoira

Nell takes my vote for this one, shes bad ass

[Yanniv]

Nel would win in theory since 3 is better than 4 in terms of rank.

[Decado]

ppl are forgetting she's a FORMER Espada.

How do you know she wasn't created by the hougyoku??
Baseless. Though I expected this.
How do you know she was? Goin by the fact of what we know - she was former, and thus like the Privaron Ichigo fought earlier, much weaker than current Espada level

[Twister1352]

ppl are forgetting she's a FORMER Espada.


Baseless. Though I expected this.
How do you know she was? Goin by the fact of what we know - she was former, and thus like the Privaron Ichigo fought earlier, much weaker than current Espada level


Not necessairly, there is no evidence to support the fact that she was a privaron espada usually if that was the case her number would be scratched out, but this was a special case. after she was hit she probably transformed an wouldn't be an espada because of her younger/ smaller form.

I still strongly believe she was created by the hougyoku


Think about when grimmjow was kicked out of the espada, his number was scratched out, but nell's wasn't that means she wasn't kicked out but more or less something happened (her transformation)

[Decado]

Not necessairly, there is no evidence to support the fact that she was a privaron espada
Except for the fact that Nnoitora "said" it. And there were ten Espada at the table - and Nell wasn't there.
I still strongly believe she was created by the hougyoku
Perhaps. And only then will she be stronger than Ulquiorra. But atm, from the evidence, she's a Privaron, and thus weaker.

[Twister1352]

Except for the fact that Nnoitora "said" it. And there were ten Espada at the table - and Nell wasn't there.

Perhaps. And only then will she be stronger than Ulquiorra. But atm, from the evidence, she's a Privaron, and thus weaker.


she SAID she was a privaron? from what I understand she said she USED to be a espada, but privaron (well to my knowledge) references to espada who were there BEFORE the hougyoku

[Decado]

Fair point. She could have been defeated and merely kicked out of the Espada, thus still created by the Hougyoku.
It'd have to be something Kubo will need to tell us. From what we infer so far, she should be a privaron as there are already 10 espada.

and no, i said Nnoitora said: "she was a former Espada"

[Twister1352]

Fair point. She could have been defeated and merely kicked out of the Espada, thus still created by the Hougyoku.
It'd have to be something Kubo will need to tell us. From what we infer so far, she should be a privaron as there are already 10 espada.

and no, i said Nnoitora said: "she was a former Espada"


exactly my point, I believe she was created by the hougyoku but due to her transformation wasn't in the espada anymore.

so due to that she > ulquiorra (well imo at least)


(did I win vs decado?? :o)

[Yanniv]

Seems like you don't know what Privaron is, Decado.

A Privaron is an Espada who loses their rank at the top 10 and falls to a three digit number.

A former Espada (Nel) is an Arrancar who was in the Espada and got kicked out for whatever reason. If you remember, Grimmjow was kicked out because he lost his arm (I believe that was the reason if I'm not mistaken), yet, he didn't fall to Privaron status.

As far as we know, Nel was an Espada when Nnoitra was in there. He claims to of knocked her over the head and kicked her out of Las Noches. Sounds pretty recent to me.

[Decado]

A Privaron is an Espada who loses their rank at the top 10 and falls to a three digit number.
Because the new ones are superior - they have been replaced due to their inability to stand up to the new Espada

Grimmjow was kicked out because he lost his arm (I believe that was the reason if I'm not mistaken), yet, he didn't fall to Privaron status.

That's exactly why my point stands. He did not fall to a status where he was below their level

As far as we know, Nel was an Espada when Nnoitra was in there. He claims to of knocked her over the head and kicked her out of Las Noches. Sounds pretty recent to me.
Read what I said in my last post. I hate repeating myself. Essentially I agreed to this.

Seems like you don't know what Privaron is, Decado.
I guess you failed to see what you were talking about, Yanniv.

[Undying]

Hey hey, chill out everyone. Anyway, while it's true that Nell may have been created by the Hougyoku (I believe Aizen first perfected all the former arrancar he could find using the Hougyoku, such as Grand Fisher, for example), so Nell may have been a natural arrancar perfected by the Hougyoku. This obviously raised her power, but that doesn't mean that her rank applies to the current Espada.

For all we know, when Noitora became an Espada, he would also be classified as 3rd. Or maybe, the only reason he is five is because he's got more killing ability than Grimmjow - maybe his cheating ways. From what we've seen Noitora is losing against Nell, but it could be because of surprise or due to the fact that he isn't released.

In short, while Nell is indeed FORMER Espada 3 (and by that I don't mean "Privaron", I mean someone who used to be and got removed without actually being demoted, seeing as she still have her tattoo), this doesn't mean she's stronger than any of the current Espada ranked 1-4.

Also there is the Vastlord issue: while some would believe that Noitora is a Vastlord, his inadequate power and cheating ways seem to be a little off for it. If he was indeed a Vastlord, and he would still need the feel to boast of beating strong opponents, wouldn't it be more logical to him to let them heal up and take them on at their peak? After all, as Vastlord he should have more power than the average captain.

He, however, attacks his opponents from the back, attacks weakened enemies, and has a backstabbing history (again, from what we KNOW). This I think indicates him being an Ajucha rather than Vastlord.

On the other hand Ulqiorra: helmet is identical to Vastlord, he has the attitude, he's got the power.

As for Nell, her being a FORMER Espada indicates, IMO, that she is not a Vastlord, since apparently Aizen doesn't have a lot of them under his command (and for all we know he has none).

[AmnesiaI]

LIKE OMFG NELL WOULD WIN NUMBER 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jk ulq would own her hardcore. fanboys relax.

[h3h3h3]

Yea I think in former rankings she would be around 5th well stronger than Noitora, but the fight isn't finished yet.

They must be quite equal in power.

[Yanniv]

Because the new ones are superior - they have been replaced due to their inability to stand up to the new Espada

Privaron means you have a three digit number. Nel still has her old number. It's simple as that.


That's exactly why my point stands. He did not fall to a status where he was below their level

Neither did Nel.


Read what I said in my last post. I hate repeating myself. Essentially I agreed to this.

Moving on...


I guess you failed to see what you were talking about, Yanniv.

Failed? Where? I've proved you wrong already.

[Twister1352]

@yanniv, read the last of page one. I already pointed out the same points as you and decado stated that yes thats probably the case :o

and

Hey hey, chill out everyone. Anyway, while it's true that Nell may have been created by the Hougyoku (I believe Aizen first perfected all the former arrancar he could find using the Hougyoku, such as Grand Fisher, for example), so Nell may have been a natural arrancar perfected by the Hougyoku. This obviously raised her power, but that doesn't mean that her rank applies to the current Espada.

For all we know, when Noitora became an Espada, he would also be classified as 3rd. Or maybe, the only reason he is five is because he's got more killing ability than Grimmjow - maybe his cheating ways. From what we've seen Noitora is losing against Nell, but it could be because of surprise or due to the fact that he isn't released.

In short, while Nell is indeed FORMER Espada 3 (and by that I don't mean "Privaron", I mean someone who used to be and got removed without actually being demoted, seeing as she still have her tattoo), this doesn't mean she's stronger than any of the current Espada ranked 1-4.

Also there is the Vastlord issue: while some would believe that Noitora is a Vastlord, his inadequate power and cheating ways seem to be a little off for it. If he was indeed a Vastlord, and he would still need the feel to boast of beating strong opponents, wouldn't it be more logical to him to let them heal up and take them on at their peak? After all, as Vastlord he should have more power than the average captain.

He, however, attacks his opponents from the back, attacks weakened enemies, and has a backstabbing history (again, from what we KNOW). This I think indicates him being an Ajucha rather than Vastlord.

On the other hand Ulqiorra: helmet is identical to Vastlord, he has the attitude, he's got the power.

As for Nell, her being a FORMER Espada indicates, IMO, that she is not a Vastlord, since apparently Aizen doesn't have a lot of them under his command (and for all we know he has none).


Yes, her former espada # might indicate that she isn't a vasto lorde BUT theres a good chance she was but that she was transformed.

I mean, would you want some little kid as an espada even though they are a vasto lorde.. they were still that little kid.

I don't think he really had a choice.

[Undying]

Yes, her former espada # might indicate that she isn't a vasto lorde BUT theres a good chance she was but that she was transformed.
I said it is possible that she is. We do not know, just like we do not know whether Ulqiorra is - we only have the silhouette to go by, and by that every Vastlord should look like that.

However the point must also be mention that there can be power-gaps between the Vastlords as well, just like there are power-gaps between the captain.

So, assuming Nell is indeed an Espada, we can also assume (and it works both ways) that Nell is weaker than Ulqiorra.

I mean, would you want some little kid as an espada even though they are a vasto lorde.. they were still that little kid.

You're forgetting she isn't a little kid, she is in fact a hot babe.
I don't think he really had a choice.
Who?

[Twister1352]

I said it is possible that she is. We do not know, just like we do not know whether Ulqiorra is - we only have the silhouette to go by, and by that every Vastlord should look like that.
However the point must also be mention that there can be power-gaps between the Vastlords as well, just like there are power-gaps between the captain.
So, assuming Nell is indeed an Espada, we can also assume (and it works both ways) that Nell is weaker than Ulqiorra.
You're forgetting she isn't a little kid, she is in fact a hot babe.
Who?


1) Why do you automatically assume that Ulquiorra is stronger?? I fail to see the reasoning behind that. For all we know she was #3 when ulquiorra was around (meaning shes stronger) but then just was kicked out because of her transformation into the little nell.

2) I meant when she had transformed into that kid, if she was in her kid form would you really still keep her as an espada?

3) Aizen had no choice but to kick her out.

[Undying]

1) Why do you automatically assume that Ulquiorra is stronger?? I fail to see the reasoning behind that. For all we know she was #3 when ulquiorra was around (meaning shes stronger) but then just was kicked out because of her transformation into the little nell.
Ulqiorra did not recognize Nell, whereas Noitora did. That means Ulqiorra was not around, otherwise he would have recognized her as Espada 3.

2) I meant when she had transformed into that kid, if she was in her kid form would you really still keep her as an espada?
3) Aizen had no choice but to kick her out.
Noitora says he smashed her head from behind and kicked her out of Las Noches. Aizen wasn't even involved.

[Twister1352]

Ulqiorra did not recognize Nell, whereas Noitora did. That means Ulqiorra was not around, otherwise he would have recognized her as Espada 3.
Noitora says he smashed her head from behind and kicked her out of Las Noches. Aizen wasn't even involved.



K, theres the possibility that ulquiorra didn't recognize the small nell, because like you said noitoira smashed her head from behind and then kicked her out

It would make sense that he would be the only one to recognize her because he kicked her out of las noches after he smashed her head and caused her to transform.

Well going by what you said this is exactly what happened. I'm guessing he wouldn't want to show off to everyone Hey this is big nell but I smashed her head in and made her transform into a little girl and now I'm kicking her and her crew out of las noches!

[Undying]

K, theres the possibility that ulquiorra didn't recognize the small nell, because like you said noitoira smashed her head from behind and then kicked her out

It would make sense that he would be the only one to recognize her because he kicked her out of las noches after he smashed her head and caused her to transform.
This is a baseless assumption - we do not know at which point Nell transformed, or if Noitora saw her transform.

Well going by what you said this is exactly what happened. I'm guessing he wouldn't want to show off to everyone Hey this is big nell but I smashed her head in and made her transform into a little girl and now I'm kicking her and her crew out of las noches!
It could be a fight, where Noitora got behind her and smashed her head, then kicked her out of Las Noches. This doesn't prove anything regarding her strength or lack thereof, but the fact that no one seems to recognize her indicates she is quite an early Espada - and thus quite a weak one (compared to the new ones anyway).

[Twister1352]

This is a baseless assumption - we do not know at which point Nell transformed, or if Noitora saw her transform.
It could be a fight, where Noitora got behind her and smashed her head, then kicked her out of Las Noches. This doesn't prove anything regarding her strength or lack thereof, but the fact that no one seems to recognize her indicates she is quite an early Espada - and thus quite a weak one (compared to the new ones anyway).


well, yes she didn't necessarily transform because of what noitoira did to her but how did he recognize her? its implied thats what happened.

and I still don't think we have enough evidence to state ulquiorra or nell is stronger, right now all we are doing is speculating.

Unless we have some hard proof or something important about nell we can't really know (or unless they fight..) lol

[Undying]

well, yes she didn't necessarily transform because of what noitoira did to her but how did he recognize her? its implied thats what happened.
Her mask.

and I still don't think we have enough evidence to state ulquiorra or nell is stronger, right now all we are doing is speculating.

Unless we have some hard proof or something important about nell we can't really know (or unless they fight..) lol
If you hadn't noticed, I've been repeating that we lack evidence and that I'm only saying my opinion on the matter.

[Twister1352]

Her mask.
If you hadn't noticed, I've been repeating that we lack evidence and that I'm only saying my opinion on the matter.


yea, he could have actually recognized her by her mask.


And yea, I know but its still fun to wonder :) I guess we will have to wait a chapter or 2

[h3h3h3]

Well Espada is getting better and better whole the time, if Neliel was a privaron #100. Ulqy > Neliel.

[Twister1352]

Well Espada is getting better and better whole the time, if Neliel was a privaron #100. Ulqy > Neliel.


but shes not a privaron, because we have already met #103 and she had a #3 tattoo on her back so if she WAS a privaron she would have been #103 which throws that theory out the window :)

[Zanga]

Until we see what actually happened to Nell, no point in arguing. For all we know that knock on the back of her head couldn't been dealt in an actual fight between the two. But all we can do is guess.

But I'm under the impression that she's a former epsada meaning one of the old ones who got replaced. She probably wouldve been a Privaron but was kicked out due to Nnoitra's actions. He obviously doesn't care what happens to the Espada, just look at Luppi.

[Twister1352]

Until we see what actually happened to Nell, no point in arguing. For all we know that knock on the back of her head couldn't been dealt in an actual fight between the two. But all we can do is guess.
But I'm under the impression that she's a former epsada meaning one of the old ones who got replaced. She probably wouldve been a Privaron but was kicked out due to Nnoitra's actions. He obviously doesn't care what happens to the Espada, just look at Luppi.


but then she would have been #103 and ichigo already faught that guy so that can't be right.

I'm pretty sure she wasn't a privaron

[Zanga]

Again I say, she WOULD'VE been one if it weren't for Nnoitra. So the rest of the Pirvaron moved up.

But it's all speculation/guesses anyhow....

[h3h3h3]

but shes not a privaron, because we have already met #103 and she had a #3 tattoo on her back so if she WAS a privaron she would have been #103 which throws that theory out the window :)
So? It doesn't need to be tattooted, she's ex-espada=Privaron, and if she were first to go=Privaron #100, she would most likely get owned by Ulqy.


Espada come and go, it's not like you think: If #3 espada get kicked she'll be automatically 103#. But if she was first to go she's the first privaron=100#.

[Twister1352]

So? It doesn't need to be tattooted, she's ex-espada=Privaron, and if she were first to go=Privaron #100, she would most likely get owned by Ulqy. Bye.


You have no evidence or support to that statement, yet you say bye like you proved something amazing.

Your post is just your theory.


And for your information being an ex-espada does NOT mean privaron, Privaron were the natural espada.

For example when grimmjow had his arm cut off he was no longer an espada member but he WASN'T an privaron.

your attitude and ego on the matter is pretty funny.

and why are you saying #100?? if anything she would be #103 since it starts at 100 = #1 privaron espada and goes on from there, why the hell would she be 100 if she was #3 (blatantly obvious by the tattoo on her back)

And we have already seen a #103 hence why I doubt this.

k thanks, Bye.

[Undying]

Those are again baseless assumptions. It's possible that if it wasn't for Noitora, Nell would have had enough power to remain in the ranks of the Espada.

[h3h3h3]

You have no evidence or support to that statement, yet you say bye like you proved something amazing.
Your post is just your theory.
And for your information being an ex-espada does NOT mean privaron, Privaron were the natural espada.
For example when grimmjow had his arm cut off he was no longer an espada member but he WASN'T an privaron.
your attitude and ego on the matter is pretty funny.
k thanks, Bye.
Where has it been stated that Natural Espada are Privaron, and hybridized not?
And you should watch your language.

[Twister1352]

Those are again baseless assumptions. It's possible that if it wasn't for Noitora, Nell would have had enough power to remain in the ranks of the Espada.



:o you are 100% right! :D

[Undying]

@twister: I was agreeing with you, fool.

@h3h3h3: rofl. natural Espada are still arrancar. They are still hybridized, just like the artificial ones.

[Twister1352]

@twister: I was agreeing with you, fool.




LOL, my bad :o I edited it :) thanks though.

I just assumed because your post was after mine :)

[h3h3h3]

Those are again baseless assumptions. It's possible that if it wasn't for Noitora, Nell would have had enough power to remain in the ranks of the Espada.
That's up to Aizen, I'm sure he has made lot of changes, and if Ulquiorra came later on, it is most likely he would've dropped Nell few ranks below and kicked the weakest out.

Edit: I meant artificials shit.

[Twister1352]

That's up to Aizen, I'm sure he has made lot of changes, and if Ulquiorra came later on, it is most likely he would've dropped Nell few ranks below and kicked the weakest out.
Edit: I meant artificials shit.


ok, think about it this way.. How is nell beating Noitoira right now?? Also, why did noitoira have a scared look on his face after nell transformed back.

she would definitely be an espada still.. I mean its obvious shes better than yammy, the question is if she would be on ulquiorra's level

[h3h3h3]

ok, think about it this way.. How is nell beating Noitoira right now?? Also, why did noitoira have a scared look on his face after nell transformed back.
she would definitely be an espada still.. I mean its obvious shes better than yammy, the question is if she would be on ulquiorra's level

I'm not denying that Nell is strong o.O.

And if she were lil' weaker than Ulqy she would've been dropped below Ulqy's rank and kicked the 10th out.

[Twister1352]

I'm not denying that Nell is strong o.O.
And if she were lil' weaker than Ulqy she would've been dropped below Ulqy's rank and kicked the 10th out.


then why were you saying she would definitely be a privaron espada??...

[h3h3h3]

then why were you saying she would definitely be a privaron espada??...
Well she is lolomfg. She is EX-ESPADA. And I didn't say definitely.
:)

[Undying]

Ulqiorra wasn't even around when Nell was an Espada...

And her spot should have been filled after she was kicked.

[Twister1352]

Well she is lolomfg. She is EX-ESPADA. And I didn't say definitely.
:)


yea but like I said before, when grimmjow wasn't an espada anymore he wasn't a privaron. They have their own living quarters (also, grimmjow wasn't in that area, instead he was hanging out with all of the real espada) and like I said I'm pretty sure they consist of the natural arrancar.

[h3h3h3]

Ulqiorra wasn't even around when Nell was an Espada...

Agreed, but it's still assumption.

yea but like I said before, when grimmjow wasn't an espada anymore he wasn't a privaron. They have their own living quarters (also, grimmjow wasn't in that area, instead he was hanging out with all of the real espada) and like I said I'm pretty sure they consist of the natural arrancar.
I think all artificials and Natural can be privaron, and Aizen didn't kick Grimmjow because he planned everything up even the Orihime healing Grimmy, so he can pwn Luppi.

[Twister1352]

Agreed, but it's still assumption.
I think all artificials and Natural can be privaron, and Aizen didn't kick Grimmjow because he planned everything up even the Orihime healing Grimmy, so he can pwn Luppi.


Once again thats just an assumption theres no proof that aizen planned it out, it just worked that way.

[h3h3h3]

No, it was planned, Aizen has done lot harder thinking -.-. Gin said to Aizen:''You planned that didn't you?''. When Tousen cut off Grimmy's hand, and he knew about Orihime before Tousen cut Grim's hand.

Aizen > 1337.

[Twister1352]

No, it was planned, Aizen has done lot harder thinking -.-. Gin said to Aizen:''You planned that didn't you?''. When Tousen cut off Grimmy's hand, and he knew about Orihime before Tousen cut Grim's hand.
Aizen > 1337.


Well, Gin was saying he planned to have tousen react and slice off grimm's arm not that he planned to have it restored.

You are assuming things and stating them as facts.

[h3h3h3]

Well, Gin was saying he planned to have tousen react and slice off grimm's arm not that he planned to have it restored.
You are assuming things and stating them as facts.
No, you live in denial, you haven't provided any argument.

And Aizen thinks farther than Gin, he had it all planned it's common sense.

Aizen > 1337.

[Twister1352]

No, you live in denial, you haven't provided any argument.
And Aizen thinks farther than Gin, he had it all planned it's common sense.
Aizen > 1337.


Once again, assuming and stating them as facts.

yes it IS possible that he did that

but you have absolutely no proof to suggest that it is, you are just stating that because thats your opinion and apparently you are infallible

[h3h3h3]

No it's not my opinion it's common sense, all the things that happened from cutting grimmjow to healing him back was to test Orihime's power. And, don't tell me I am assuming state some argument or don't post.

[Twister1352]

Its possible, but you can't say it was for sure. It IS an assumption no matter what you say.


now lets get back onto the topic of nell vs ulquiorra.

Nell wins imo

[h3h3h3]

It's possible that Neliel is stronger because if we look how Ulquiorra fought with Grimmjow and Neliel fought with Noitra, Neliel fought with ease againts 5# and Ulquiorra had trouble with #6.

[Twister1352]

It's possible that Neliel is stronger because if we look how Ulquiorra fought with Grimmjow and Neliel fought with Noitra, Neliel fought with ease againts 5# and Ulquiorra had trouble with #6.


yea, I agree but he didn't think grimmjow was going to fight him the element of surprise could have helped grimmjow a little

but imo nell is stronger. :D plus I like her better...

[FullMetal Rebel]

It's possible that Neliel is stronger because if we look how Ulquiorra fought with Grimmjow and Neliel fought with Noitra, Neliel fought with ease againts 5# and Ulquiorra had trouble with #6.


Trouble? Where? As far as I know Grimmjow was about to get his ass kicked.

[Twister1352]

Trouble? Where? As far as I know Grimmjow was about to get his ass kicked.


But it still wasn't very effortless in comparison to how nell just didn't even take noitoira seriously and cut him with ease.

[h3h3h3]

He binded(?) him that's enough trouble if you ask me. And Grimmjow blocked few of Ulqy's Cero's and trapped him.

[FullMetal Rebel]

Ulquiorra didn't want to fight Grimmjow, stated by Grimmjow himself. If he was serious he would have maimed him in a second.

That is why he trapped him the first place, he knew he was going to get his ass kicked.

[h3h3h3]

Serious or not, I don't think Ulqy volunteerely would want to get his ass binded for 2hour+.

[Twister1352]

Ulquiorra didn't want to fight Grimmjow, stated by Grimmjow himself. If he was serious he would have maimed him in a second.

That is why he trapped him the first place, he knew he was going to get his ass kicked.


No, he trapped him because he really wanted to fight ichigo, not ulquiorra.

I'm agreeing with h3h3h3 on this one.

[FullMetal Rebel]

No, he trapped him because he really wanted to fight ichigo, not ulquiorra.


Lol did you see his face when Ulquiorra caught him red handed? He looked like he was going to shit a brick, He was dead afraid of emo boy . He trapped him to hide from Ulquiorra, Ichigo is just part of it.

[Twister1352]

Well, I see Diamondedge lurking :) lets see what she thinks.

and @Fullmetal

The point is, ulquiorra had more trouble with grimmjow than Nell had against Noitoira and noit is a rank below grimmjow..

[Lelouch]

Lol did you see his face when Ulquiorra caught him red handed? He looked like he was going to shit a brick, He was dead afraid of emo boy . He trapped him to hide from Ulquiorra, Ichigo is just part of it.

indeed... grimm WAS afraid of ulqy.. lols...................

[Twister1352]

indeed... grimm WAS afraid of ulqy.. lols...................


I'd say more surprised than afraid really.

[FullMetal Rebel]

Well, I see Diamondedge lurking :) lets see what she thinks.

and @Fullmetal

The point is, ulquiorra had more trouble with grimmjow than Nell had against Noitoira and noit is a rank below grimmjow..


How is that so when Ulqiorra wasn't even trying to fight Grimmjow. There is a big difference between wanting to kill somebody, and not trying. Plus Nell had her zanpkatou drawn anyway.

[diamondedge]

I believe that the current Espada ranks are above of those of former Espadas but I conclude that Nell is stronger than Ulquiorra.

It would make sense to me now that she fights no. 5 Espada - a lot of stories use 5 vs 3 comparison to show the power gap.

As many of you have stated, I hate this kind of comparisons, but Ulquiorra struggled against Grimmjow, who wore no.6, and Nell is raping no.5 EFFORTLESSLY.

And Nell was probably around when Ulqi wasn't in the game - which can be good, as she she may have more EXP, but if they are both created by Hogyoku, it would make sense that latest Hogyoku is more efficient, and that would mean that Ulqi could be on par with her. But it's still doubtful that he IS stronger based on that Grimmjow comparison. After all, it's clearly stated that Espada ranks go based on power from 1 to 10. If Ulqi had problems with 6, between 3 and 6, the power gap is HUGE.

However, if they actually fight in the manga (God, I wish) fight, I think Ulquiorra would actually win.

So on what I've seen and what i think, Nell should win, but if they do happen, it would be better if Ulqi comes off victorious.

[Undying]

First of all stop with the "Nell is owning the 5th Espada effortlessly". All she did so far was just surprise him with her movement speed, give him a slash on the chest, and fire back his Cero - this fight hasn't even started yet. So stop assuming that Noitora is down with Nell not even trying.

As for Ulqiorra "struggling" against Grimmjow: did any of you see him take his hand out of his pocket? Or even TRY to reach for his zanpakto? No. Ulqiorra was clearly holding back in order to avoid accidentally hurting Inoue's powers (the Shun Shun Rikka themselves).

Also Noitora's killing ability may be higher than Grimmjow's due to his willingness to go to any length to fight his opponents, it doesn't mean his power is necessarily higher than Grimmjow.

So it MAY be that:

power:

Grimmjow > Noitora

Killing ability:

Noitora > Grimmjow.

[Yanniv]

So it MAY be that:

power:

Grimmjow > Noitora

Killing ability:

Noitora > Grimmjow.

Ulquiorra said his power was ranked 4th within the Espada. That led me to believe the ranks are based on power (as it should be). Where did it say the rank is based on killing ability?

[Undying]

Ulquiorra said his power was ranked 4th within the Espada. That led me to believe the ranks are based on power (as it should be). Where did it say the rank is based on killing ability?
Power has nothing to do with the Espada rankings. Shawlong quite clearly states "destructive abilities" (chapter 209 p7 (http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach/209/7/)), and on the same page he also says "amazing abilities". The term "power" with a meaning of strength doesn't mean anything for the Espada rankings. Szayel certainly doesn't have a lot of it (hell, he was hurt by Shikai Renji's attack), but he's still 8th - even above Aaroniero and Yammy, who certainly seem like the more "powerful" type.

Ulqiorra says "according to the Espada's power ranking, I'm the fourth strongest" (chapter 271 p17 (http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach/271/17/)), however that statement conflicts with Shawlong's explanation.

I believe that what should be written there is indeed "killing ability" rather than power.

Obviously those with extremely high power would have extremely high killing ability - if you can just brush aside anything your opponent throws at you and kill them with a single slap, you're a high Espada - but that doesn't mean that those ranked high among the Espada are necessarily more powerful than the ones ranked below them.

Case in point - Grimmjow and Ulqiorra and Noitora and Nell comparison.

[Zanga]

Ulquiorra said his power was ranked 4th within the Espada. That led me to believe the ranks are based on power (as it should be). Where did it say the rank is based on killing ability?

Yammy could eat Arniello in a battle of power.


But in reality would probably lose due to the 30,000 different abilities(non being instant regeneration as it appears).

[cupnoodles]

well, we dont really know the circumstances of nel's demotion. the newer espadas aren't always stronger than those they replace as we've seen in grimmjow's case.
luppi got wtfpwned by the very espada he was suppose to replace. it's pretty obvious even a 1 armed grimmjow could pwn him.
however, now that nel's back to her old form, she could very well be stronger than any rank 4 or weaker espadas just the same way grimmjow returned to being stronger than any rank 7 and weaker espadas.
well...at least that's what it seems given how she's doing against noitoira so far. there's no way in hell he's been defeated yet, but she's still kicking the 5th espada's ass quite well.

personally, i think it would be a very close match, but i'd give it to nel based on speculations.

[Decado]

Privaron means you have a three digit number. Nel still has her old number. It's simple as that.
So you're saying she's not a Privaron, and she's part of the CURRENT Espada?

As I already said - there were ten espada at the table. Unless Kubo tells us otherwise, she is not a CURRENT Espada.

Failed? Where? I've proved you wrong already.
Wrong in what? You're assuming she's a current Espada b/c she hasn't been given a 3 digit number.
As logical as that sounds, what I said above implies she's not in the current espada

As said above, we dont really know the circumstances of nel's demotion

[smach]

As said above, we dont really know the circumstances of nel's demotionnell blacked out, lost her memory, and turned into a baby that could somehow swallow ceros...i think that's more than enough info.

[Decado]

So you're saying she's not a Privaron, and she's part of the CURRENT Espada?

As I already said - there were ten espada at the table. Unless Kubo tells us otherwise, she is not a CURRENT Espada.
Since Nnoitora did "kick her out" (psh, how ridiculous. two ranks lower and he manages to knock her out -.-) then that means Aizen just replaced her w/o even bothering to check what happened to her, just as Luppi replaced Grimmjow, where in this case Grimmjow exiled = Nell exiled, both still stronger than their current replacements.
That would be only way Nell > Ulquiorra

[Yanniv]

So you're saying she's not a Privaron, and she's part of the CURRENT Espada?

As I already said - there were ten espada at the table. Unless Kubo tells us otherwise, she is not a CURRENT Espada.


Wrong in what? You're assuming she's a current Espada b/c she hasn't been given a 3 digit number.
As logical as that sounds, what I said above implies she's not in the current espada

As said above, we dont really know the circumstances of nel's demotion

Dude, you are assuming my position.

She is a former Espada. There is a difference between former and Privaron, according to Kubo.

I'm arguing that her 3rd rank, and getting kicked out by Nnoitra, has been fairly recent. I'd argue Ulquiorra was 4th when she was 3rd in the Espada. The only thing that changed since she left, in my opinion, is probably the addition of Halibel to the 3rd slot.

[Lelouch]

Is she was a 3rd compared to the current 1-4 Nnoitra wouldnt be able to kick her, no matter how much he surprised her e.t.c... So i guess Ulqy wins..>.>

[cupnoodles]

well noitoira did say it has been only a short while since he smashed her head in, so there's a pretty good chance nel was 3rd even when ulquiorra was 4th. i mean, there was like a one month time skip right?

[Decado]

I'm arguing that her 3rd rank, and getting kicked out by Nnoitra, has been fairly recent. I'd argue Ulquiorra was 4th when she was 3rd in the Espada. The only thing that changed since she left, in my opinion, is probably the addition of Halibel to the 3rd slot.
Yeah..... I affirmed this on the first page

[Shercko]

A baby arrancar that can swallow a cero. I felt like vomitting when i saw that.

All of what Decado has said reflects my own opinions on this. So i voted Ulq.

[Zanga]

Noitra murked her head, she changed to a baby and Aizen kicked her out.


Until we get a full story, no one can say otherwise. This thread should be closed for a couple of weeks since it's nothing but pointless and meaningless arguments.

[II Xion II]

I brought this up at NF. If Grimmjow had taken out Ulquiorra when his back was turned, everyone would be loling about how weak Ulquiorra is for not noticing someone behind him and getting owned by someone two ranks lower.

Why should it be different for Nell? Because she's hot?

[h3h3h3]

Grimmjow couldn't have backraped Ulqy even tho he'd turn his back at him, and Neliel shows weakness when Nnoitra backraped her, and no we(I) wouldn't lol IF Grimm managed to backrape Ulqy from behind, you just generalize people over pervertness.

[FullMetal Rebel]

Nell is weak compared to the new Espada proven by the new spoilers. I was right all along, Ulquiorra wins. Her attacks on Noitora was nothing but surprise attacks anyway.

[silverwolf801]

NOpe nell will spit on him and then tit smack him hhahahahah.

[h3h3h3]

Yea Ulquiorra would just remain faceless when Nell'll spit on him :b. I still think Ulqy wins, oh well they're quite equal.

[silverwolf801]

actuall they aren't weak herpowers are now decreased by alot since the whole big new espada joining thing

[Lelouch]

hasnt it stated in the spoiler thingie that Nnoitra > Nell , or at least = nell...? He said sth like " your powers are no use. the espada are not like they used to be '' meaning that she being the old 3rd didnt mean shit and that he could basically pwn her..!

So : Ulqy > Nnoitra > Neliel...!

Unless that was a fake spoiler , or nnoitra is overconfident 0.o

[Yanniv]

Ya, according to the new chapter, it seems Nel was in the Espada some years back. So yeah, Ulquiorra would be stronger as far as we know.

[cupnoodles]

that statement really bugged me. i don't get how it could have been years.

i always thought the espadas were all arrancars and for the creation of the arrancar, the hogyoku would be needed since it gives hollows shinigami powers and vice versa. well...the hogyoku's only been around for a few months at most, so how the hell can noitoira have been around years ago to bash neriel's head in?
i mean neriel has a zanpaktou, so she at the least has to be an arrancar.

am i forgetting something here or what? is noi lying again? did he get his head bashed too and lost sense of time?

[Undying]

that statement really bugged me. i don't get how it could have been years.

i always thought the espadas were all arrancars and for the creation of the arrancar, the hogyoku would be needed since it gives hollows shinigami powers and vice versa. well...the hogyoku's only been around for a few months at most, so how the hell can noitoira have been around years ago to bash neriel's head in?
i mean neriel has a zanpaktou, so she at the least has to be an arrancar.

am i forgetting something here or what? is noi lying again? did he get his head bashed too and lost sense of time?
There were natural arrancar before the Hougyoku. According to Doldoni there were also Espada.

[cupnoodles]

really? how? you remember what chapter that was?

[h3h3h3]

It's true I think it was around 250-255. :b

[Undying]

The natural arrancar are mention by Urahara and Isshin back in chapters 187-189.

Doldoni mentions the Espada in chapters 250-255.

[cupnoodles]

well damn. nel gets owned hard by ulquiorra then. i never realized espadas were possible without hogyoku.

i guess this explains why vaizards exist too.

[Guy]

Huh, well, with the new chapter out, I guess it's really possible for Ulquiorra to pwn Nell. Noitora apparently is stronger than I thought. Therefore, I give the victory to Ulquiorra.

[Twister1352]

Huh, well, with the new chapter out, I guess it's really possible for Ulquiorra to pwn Nell. Noitora apparently is stronger than I thought. Therefore, I give the victory to Ulquiorra.


That doesn't mean nell can't kill him.. don't assume hes stronger than her now (Noitoira that is) lol


as for Ulquiorra vs Nell, I'm undecided I mean Ulquiorra is only 1 below noitoira so it depends on if nell can beat noitoira easily or not.

[Lelouch]

Well its sth like this imo :
Ulquiora > > > > > > Nnoitra>Nell > > > Grimjow/Ichigo

It reminds of Claymore. The 1st,2nd,3rd,4th,5th digits owned the others with ease. ( 1st > 2nd > 3rd > 4th > 5th > > > > > > > 6th > 7th > 8th e.t.c )

[smach]

not quite sure about noitora being stronger than nell...from what we've seen so far, i'd say they're on some sort of equal grounds.

[Nowitzki]

The fight between Nell and Noitora should show the closing gap between the current fifth and former third Espadas. Noitora has improved since they last fought, and so it seems that they are on equal grounds as Smacharia said. As of right now though, based on Noitora's history of under-handed methods, and the fact that he hasn't attacked yet, it seems Nell still has an advantage despite most likely not being use to her true self. All Noitora has done is survive an attack, he hasn't gone on the offensive, so theres no true way to gauge their strength. Noitora was careless, and even if we was shocked about Nell returning, it's no excuse for him to get run over like he did. I think Nell is stronger than Noitora, but the gap has closed. Seeing the power gap between Noitora and Grimmjow ultimately makes me believe there is a bigger one between Ulquiorra and Noitora, making Ulquiorra stronger than Nell.

[Lelouch]

All will be illuminated when the next chapter is released..!

[AzureKite]

I would think Nell and Ulquiorra would be pretty close. Ulquiorra is part of the stronger arrancar. But nell as people point out, can swallow cero. Also she can just vomit everywhere to heal herself maybe XD

[silverwolf801]

but also she couldn't even hurt noitora with that cero and he is the 5th espada. Ulqwhatever would abuse that poor girl

[Outlawz]

Ulquiorra would obviously win. Nell is about even, if not weaker than Noitora.

[Nowitzki]

but also she couldn't even hurt noitora with that cero and he is the 5th espada.

Ulquiorra would obviously win. Nell is about even, if not weaker than Noitora.

Nell's only slashed Noitora and used her double Cero technique. Noitora is damaged, but not necessarily hindered by the attack to the point where he cannot attack. Even though he is damaged, as you can clearly see, he's still at full fighting potential. I don't know where people get the idea that Noitora was invulnerable to her attacks.

Also, we've failed to see Noitora attack Nell, so whats not to say Noitora's attacks will produce the same effects as Nell's did?

[Outlawz]

Also, we've failed to see Noitora attack Nell, so whats not to say Noitora's attacks will produce the same effects as Nell's did?

If that were to happen we'd have a boring ass fight with no injuries.

[Lelouch]

in order to beat ulquiorra she should be able to wtfpawn Nnoitra... Even if she wins i doubt she wtfpawns him.....

[Twister1352]

in order to beat ulquiorra she should be able to wtfpawn Nnoitra... Even if she wins i doubt she wtfpawns him.....


You have no evidence to support this, Remember Ulquiorra is only the 4th, Noitoira is the 5th, thats one rank.


Also who the hell keeps saying that Noitoira > nell ? thats rediculous, we have no reason to think that.

She just thought he was weaker than he is since like he said years went by, I still think nell > noitoira I mean she did cut him without him reacting and hit him with a cero with him not dodging lol he has yet to hit her with anything

I think nell is even with Ulquiorra

[Shercko]

Let me contribute a objective view, it is very simple;
Nell is former 3rd, Ulq is current 4th.
The former Espada is being replaced because of difference in power, this should be obvious to everyone, not to mention that Nell (seemingly an old Espada, whatever that means) seems to not being a "fighting soul", taken her face when facing Nnoitra.
Nnoitra tells her that the number on her back means "nothing", implying that she is either is an old Espada, or that the power rankings are increasing very drasticly in terms of power-measurement, in a quick period of time.

I personally think that Ulq would send Nell to another world, litterally, but that is only based on Nnoitra's statement about her number meaning "nothing". Other than that, i (and WE), have no other basis of judging wether Ulq would destroy Nell, or the other way around. Oh no? Well then give me a goddamn ARGUMENT, not just some crap about what you THINK, and not some shit about wether or not you think who-or-else should win because of that-and-why.

These are my objective views, and please, don't come with useless fanboyism on me, cause that will result in ignorance, wich just ain't cool.

I ask of thee - Undying - come with your usual advice! Give to me your always and every uplifting post! And actually, the same goes for Decado!

I may be drunk, but i want...

[Outlawz]

Nell is the former 3rd, and in her time, Noitora was the former 8th, but in the present day Noitora is number 5 and is on par, if not stronger then Nell. That 3 doesn't mean shit, Ulquiorra would waste her.

[h3h3h3]

@Outlawz: I probably missed it, but where it is stated that Nnoitra was 8th when Neliel was 3rd?

[Decado]

^ newest chapter

[Aesthetique]

Hmmm... This is hard to say, but I think that Ulquiorra will show some form of superiority. After all, Nell's been in her "kawaii" form without training for so long already. n.n

[Lelouch]

You have no evidence to support this, Remember Ulquiorra is only the 4th, Noitoira is the 5th, thats one rank.


We can assume that this rank plays a major role in their power. Nnoitra seems to be alot faster than grimjow. Thats one-rank-difference too. Anyway i cant PROVE it , i just stated MY opinion. kthx.

[Minielf]

Judging by the latest chapter spoiler, it appears that Nell would have no chance against Ulquiorra. Nnoitra alone has forced her to fight at full strength, and it's doubtful whether or not she can beat him. Ulquiorra is likely 1.5x more powerful than Nnoitra, based on how Vizard Ichigo fared against him and Grimmjow (Nnoitra looks like he's only a tad stronger than Grimmjow) and the fact that he's a Vasto Lorde, whereas Nnoitra is probably an Adjuchas.

[Outlawz]

(Nnoitra looks like he's only a tad stronger than Grimmjow)
....................What?

[Zanga]

Judging by the latest chapter spoiler, it appears that Nell would have no chance against Ulquiorra. Nnoitra alone has forced her to fight at full strength, and it's doubtful whether or not she can beat him. Ulquiorra is likely 1.5x more powerful than Nnoitra, based on how Vizard Ichigo fared against him and Grimmjow (Nnoitra looks like he's only a tad stronger than Grimmjow) and the fact that he's a Vasto Lorde, whereas Nnoitra is probably an Adjuchas.

Where are you getting these calculations from?.....

[bktoboca]

yea, ulquiorra is cool, but he is the 4th and nell is 3rd. these rankings do it. nell is different from him because she can get motivated by her emotions, she has more reason to fight. even if she was an older version she still has her strength. yea her masked was cracked but he meant 2 break it and all that happened was a crack. she would get beat up but win in the end

[Decado]

yea, ulquiorra is cool, but he is the 4th and nell is 3rd. these rankings do it.
You do realise this has been discussed before? They were older rankings. Years old. Before the Hougyoku came.

She doesn't stand a chance versus Ulquiorra. More proof? She was released, and still couldn't 'kill' Nnoitora, who was not even released himself.
And he's TWO ranks below her in the OLD system.
Read back over the old posts please :)









Ulquiorra wins. There's no further proof to assert otherwise at the moment

/locked for the time being.


/me still can't believe how close the poll results were......

[Undying]

And he's TWO ranks below her in the OLD system.
5 ranks.

[Decado]

Currently.

By old system I mean what Nell is still occupied in. I couldn't say new system since we haven't been given her 'new' number, we can only assume judged on her fight with Nnoitora

[Undying]

In the old system, mr. Snakespoon is 8, and Ms boobs is 3. 8-3=5. Simple maths isn't it.

And now she can't even kill him. Shows just how much more power he has.

[Decado]

... did you read what I said? I referred to Nell's number only.
And he's TWO ranks below her in the OLD system.
Her system being old.

Better reworded then for better understanding perhaps: "And he's TWO ranks below her, since her number is from the OLD system"


She's going to lose either way.

[Undying]

... did you read what I said? I referred to Nell's number only.
Her system being old.
Better reworded then for better understanding perhaps: "And he's TWO ranks below her, since her number is from the OLD system"
She's going to lose either way.
He's not two ranks below her, because her number refers to the old system (where he was 5 ranks below her) while his number is in the new system, where it is unknown what Neliel's number would be. It's rather like comparing oranges to cucumbers, not much to go by except color. (For all we know, sexism might have won and she'd not even be in Espada :p.)

[Decado]

That's my point. The old system no longer works. And since he's only two ranks below her - she was badged using the old system, her strength is NOT the CURRENT 3rd.

Thus even tho Ulquiorra is #4, he'd still shred her.

[Undying]

That's my point. The old system no longer works. And since he's only two ranks below her - she was badged using the old system, her strength is NOT the CURRENT 3rd.
Thus even tho Ulquiorra is #4, he'd still shred her.
That's what I've been saying =\. My turn to ask: have you been reading my posts? -.-

[Decado]

He's not two ranks below her, because her number refers to the old system
That's what I meant in my very first post. So yes I have. Trying to clear the misunderstanding -.-

[Undying]

That's what I meant in my very first post. So yes I have. Trying to clear the misunderstanding -.-
But I will still post here for the sake of posting.

*posts* :biggrinlo