Ichigo: Arrancar or Vizard?

[lmsanchez1314]

I know that Ichigo is most likely a vizard, but isn't there a possiblity that he could be an arrancar. First off, he started as a soul reaper, then Byakuya had taken his powers away. In order to save Rukia, he'd gotten his powers back with Urahara's help.
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Ichigo's mask began forming and he was starting to become a hollow, but became a soul reaper after his mask formed. After, he tore of his mask. I mean, don't you have to be a soul reaper to gain hollow powers illegally? Ichigo wasn't, wasn't he?
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Sorry. This question had been bugging me for awhile now...

[Jedi Taicho]

Ichigo is a Vizard. One can only be an Arrancar if one has already died and turned into 100% hollow then changed by Aizen and the power of the Hougyoku. Ichigo never tuned into a complete hollow thus he is not an Arrancar. +Arrancars are created by Aizen.

Ichigo was using Rukia's power before Byakuya took Rukia's power back. Urahara helped Ichigo gain his own Shinigami powers.

Final thought: Ichigo is a Vaizard plain and simple

[Decado]

+Arrancars are created by Aizen.
Not true.
There were arrancars already before Aizen. Primera Espada and the like. The hougyoku just increases the ability to create Vaste Lordes -the most powerful sort of Arrancar.

In Ichigo's case he always had shinigami powers due to his father. However, to gain it, a hollow was created within him because his soul was almost eaten - and it was, to an extent, by Ogihci.

Nevertheless, I'd still say Ichigo is a Vaizard.

[deathangel20]

I thought the Hougyoku only allows Hollows to become Arrancar and Shinigami to Vaizards. The Hougyoku cant change a Hollow into a Vasto Lorde.

[Decado]

The Hougyoku cant change a Hollow into a Vasto Lorde.
I said: "increases the ability to create Vaste Lordes".
ie - makes it easier.
I thought the Hougyoku only allows Hollows to become Arrancar
That was my first thought, but there seems to have been Arrancar before Aizen's arrival.

[Barbaroi]

I thought the Hougyoku only allows Hollows to become Arrancar and Shinigami to Vaizards. The Hougyoku cant change a Hollow into a Vasto Lorde.


If that is the case, then
how did Nell come about?I haven't read the manga yet, but I am assuming that Aizen didn't create her from the hougyoko.

I believe an Arrancar is when a hollow forcively *spelling* removes its mask to gain more power.

[Decado]

^ spoiler. This is the gen talk section :)

/spoiler tagged

[Sendivoge]

I thought i remembered something about the body forming before the mask, in the case of hollows. In the first instance, ichigo's mask formed first, without the hollow body, meaning he was a vaizard at most. Actually, this may not even apply.

[deathangel20]

Yeah, there were Arrancar before Hougyoku. If you played Shattered Blade, Arturo Platedo was a self-made arrancar. I never said that the Hougyoku made the Arrancar come into existence, I said that it allows hollow to become arrancar...

About that Vasto Lorde thing. What do you mean by that? I thought Vasto Lordes were created when Adjuchas devour each other to gain more power

[Jedi Taicho]

Oh ok Decado. I always assumed they were created. I guess your right, there would have to be Arrancar even before Aizen. They would just be less human form. And the Hougyoku just makes them more human? iono that's what i can infer.

I'm not even gonna touch the Vasto Lorde just because it's so confusing. +we haven't really seen a Vasto Lorde so ima wait till that happens

[lmsanchez1314]

Don't you have to be a soul reaper in order to become a vizard? I don't think Ichigo was a soul reaper at the time he was becoming a hollow. I just thought that since he technically became a hollow(almost), he'd be an arrancar or something. Can you really become a vizard just by getting the mask, and then become a soul reaper?

[Barbaroi]

Ichigo still had soul reaper powers other then the ones given to him by Rukia, they were just buried deep in him.

@Decado: Sorry, didn't know that was a spoiler (I haven't read the manga so I didn't know) :/

[deathangel20]

Don't you have to be a soul reaper in order to become a vizard? I don't think Ichigo was a soul reaper at the time he was becoming a hollow. I just thought that since he technically became a hollow(almost), he'd be an arrancar or something. Can you really become a vizard just by getting the mask, and then become a soul reaper?

To become a Vizard, you first get shinigami powers and then somehow get a hollow inside you. Once you get the hollow, you have to subdue it so you can control it. If you can't subdue, then the hollow eats you and you become hollow.

[anubis24354]

From what I understood, Vasto Lorde was just the highest evolution of a Menos Grande. The Menos either stay as Gillian (like the giant guy that Ichigo and Ishida killed before SS), Adjucas or Vasto Lorde.

Arrancar are Menos that have managed to remove their mask and gained a more humanlike appearance and better control over their powers.

The Hougyoku just makes the process of forming an Arrancar (which is also, by definition, a hollow that has gained shinigami powers) simpler and the hybridization process more precise. So even though all arrancar are perfect hybrids, the hogyoku can make the process easier and a better conversion.

To be a Vaizard one has to be a shinigami that has gained hollow powers (so since Ichigo was a shinigami first, he is a Vaizard). The normal process by which Vaizard are created hasn't really been revealed, though in Ichigo's case it was because he was still technically alive when he gained shinigami powers to begin with. So when Urahara essentially "killed" him to help him gain his powers back, he awakened the hollow within because Ichigo didn't pass on like normal but his chain was destroyed.

[Jedi Taicho]

Watch episode 17-19 i think. That'll explain how Ichigo got his Vizard powers. His life chain was cut and he did become a hollow, but his will to survive gave him both powers. Shinji just revived those hollow powers inside Ichigo

[anubis24354]

Watch episode 17-19 i think. That'll explain how Ichigo got his Vizard powers. His life chain was cut and he did become a hollow, but his will to survive gave him both powers. Shinji just revived those hollow powers inside Ichigo


Shinji really just kinda helped him learn how to control him (as well as the rest of the Vaizard). They were awake the whole time, he just didn't really understand how to use them or subdue Ogichi. That's why he'd periodically go insane and kick ass like ass hadn't been kicked before. :headbang

[lmsanchez1314]

So, once you go soul reaper, you can never go back?

[anubis24354]

*shrugs* Considering Ichigo's situation, he could probably turn into a Hollow if he let Ogichi take over. That would be an interesting situation, though, Shinigami to hollow to Arrancar. Now, that would be a technicalities dellima.

[lmsanchez1314]

He did become a full hollow while training with Shinji, but he still is a vizard because he became a soul reaper first.
I was just curious. I guess I was just being simple minded.

[Undying]

@Dec: Vastlord is the natural strongest form of Menos. They aren't arrancar (and that's what your post implies by saying "increase the ability to make Vastlords - the strongest of the arrancar).

What the Hougyoku does is make the Arrancar more perfect, increase and purify their reiatsu to make it more shinigami like (Grand Fisher was said to have a "murky reiatsu", as opposed to Yammy and Ulqiorra who had "stable and pure" reiatsu).

As far as Ichigo goes, he is a Vaizard, because he was a complete shinigami first and then transformed into part-Hollow (never full Hollow because his shinigami self was still there).

[SaberBlade]

Well he doesn't have the hole in his body like the other Hollow so I think that pretty much determines he's not a hollow.
Plus, when Ichigo transformed he was fighting to detemine which would happen, his becoming a Hollow or a Shinigami and as we saw, Shinigami won. But because he was so close to becoming a Hollow, that potential was still within him so he became Vizard.

[Zanga]

Actually it can be thrown up into the air. He became a hollow and shinigami exactly at the same time, kind of like a perfect Hybrid. But since Ichigo appeared in shinigami robes with only a mask on his face, the result was Vaizard.


Edit: Arrancars don't have masks at all. Arrancars are hollws who removed their masks off, so yeah that basically confirms Ichigo is a Vaizard.

[Barbaroi]

So, once you go soul reaper, you can never go back?

Soul reapers can have their spirit links/chain and something else cut as in one of the earlier episodes when byakuya and renji came to the real world to bring rukia back, and ichigo went to save her, Byakuya cut his soul link (?)((I forget the exact name of it) and removed Rukias shinigami powers. Ishida also did the same to Jidanbou's brother in the SS arc. So in other words, a shinigami can have their power removed by the destruction of these 2 key points.

[Sesshomaru]

Ogichi can be arrancar NOT Ichigo.

[cherry blossoms]

It's pretty clear he's a 'Vizard', in addition he hardly meets any of the criteria for being an arrancar.

[Lelouch]

Well if he was arrancar he wouldnt have been called by the other arrancar as '' filthy shinigami'' e.t.c... Besides Shinji approached him to join the Vaizard ranks. Ichigo agreed , so ichigo --> vaizard. ty

[Sesshomaru]

Ichigo is shinigami so he just cant be arrancar, only hollow can :whatevah:

[FullMetal Rebel]

Ichigo is all Vaizard, he doesn't have a hole in his body. He would need to be a hollow with a hole, then to remove his mask before he can become an arrancar.

[rxfreedom]

Maybe he just half and half like that!

[Sesshomaru]

No... Ichigo is shinigami and shinigami cant be arrancar...

[II Xion II]

Vaizard since the definition of vaizard is a shinigami who becomes a hollow. -_-

I don't think there is a great secret to that fact, although there might be something "special" about him.

[lmsanchez1314]

I don't think that Ichigo was a soul reaper when he began to transform into a hollow, but I'm a sorta convinced that he's a vizard now.

[h3h3h3]

Wow, epic fail.

Ichigo is Vizard thread closed.

[Zanga]

There's no doubt about it. Vaizards gain masks and Arrancars lose them.


Simple as that.