Grimmjow vs. Leroux [Manga Spoilers] [Archive]

Rayster

11-21-2007, 05:21 AM

^ Correct
I'd actually go with Leroux. Grimmjow doesn't have a lot of versatility.. Leroux's 'amor' would be the end of him. Even Leroux unreleased, with his amazing sonido, should be more than enough for Grimmjow.
-v
The espada is ranked in the current order for a reason, so I'd wait for a bit more info on Leroux before declaring Grimm's defeat :p
Agreed. It's a bit early to call.

Also, title edited so that Leroux's name doesn't show up.
For the main page. Yet it's still visible off new posts, and it stretches the screen uneccessarily, so I switched the names instead. :)

deathangel20

11-21-2007, 06:40 AM

There's gotta be some sort of limitation to Leroux's ability, otherwise it's almost as cheap as Aizen's shikai.

The espada is ranked in the current order for a reason, so I'd wait for a bit more info on Leroux before declaring Grimm's defeat :p

my guess is that the limitation is Leroux is unable to move. I dont kno how you move with most of your weight in your thighs. But, judging by appearance of release, Grimmjow looks faster than Leroux, but Lerouxs ability would own Grimmjow before Grimmjow could get to him. But, perhaps theres a reason Grimmjow is higher.

FullMetal Rebel

11-21-2007, 07:37 AM

Its too early to call on who would win. I'm guessing Leroux has some drawbacks to his release. He must be lower than Grimmjow for a reason.

Kenken

11-21-2007, 09:16 AM

Grimmjow >> Sexta Espada

Leroux >> Septima Espada

Grimmjow owns Leroux :lol

h3h3h3

11-21-2007, 01:32 PM

He is Sexta for a reason.

Undying

11-21-2007, 03:33 PM

There are too many variables right now so I'd go with Grimmjow based on rank alone, though of course it might change.

smach

11-22-2007, 05:52 PM

i'd go with grimjow, be it sealed, released, or a mismatch. if sealed, there's ub3r cero n badass-ness on grim's side. when released, there's cero, high-speed torpedo-like stakes, n a pair of big-ass claws. not forgetting that he could also 'claw out' each n every one of those eyes with his panther hands n legs.

silverwolf801

11-22-2007, 07:09 PM

come on this is bull. grimmjow got the rank that he did because he was strong enough to obtain that rank not because of what he could do. If you think that zomari's released form can beat his then you are a sad person my friend

Zanga

11-22-2007, 11:14 PM

Yeah all Leroux would be seeing is the blurr of Released Grimm runnig aorund shooting spikes from every direction.

lilmajin

11-23-2007, 08:09 PM

I don't know about this one. Le Roux has a very gay ability. Also, because grimmjow is higher doesn't mean a thing. Noitora thinks that he's the strongest Espada yet he's #5. Grimmjow out smarted and out-speeded Ulquiorra and Ulqy is #4. This is Bleach, not DBZ........not everything is pre-determined by powerlevels (ranks). Byakuya is having to hurt himself in order to stop Le Roux's ability (and I know for certain that Byakuya > Grimmjow).

I think that Le Roux > Grimmjow because he has the fastest Sonido and can control your entire body if he looks at your head. Grimmjow is an animal with no real abilities; he only has a higher killing intent/power than Le Roux, thus making his # higher.

I think that numbers are also determined by personality/intelligence. Just look at how long it takes the lower espada numbers to kill their opponents when they can. Yami > Ichigo when they first fought and didn't kill him, orihime, nor Chad when he had the chance.......hella leinient. Aaron coulda killed Rukia numerous times, but got killed for playing too much.......hella stupid and plays with his prey. Syaelporro has been keeping Renji and Ishida alive and "won't" kill them, now he's about to get killed by Mayuri. Le Roux coulda looked at Byakuya's head instead of his foot and made him kill himself (Kenpachi vs bankai Tousen anyone?) right off the bat, but look at were he is now?

Now we go to #6 and up. Grimmjow tried numerous times to kill ALL of his opponents and succeed in killing Luppi and the two arrancar girls that beat up Orihime. Noitora aced Grimmjow AND tried to kill him, Ichigo, and Nell. Ulquiorra follows orders but will kill you ASAP (look at what he did to Ichigo and orihime's escorts).

Their numbers are determined by killing ability (their personalities may be a huge factor of their number).

h3h3h3

11-23-2007, 09:09 PM

Personality means jack. Grimmjow has a higher killing ability so he kills more effectively than Le Roux.

Nowitzki

11-23-2007, 10:01 PM

I don't know about this one. Le Roux has a very gay ability. Also, because grimmjow is higher doesn't mean a thing. Noitora thinks that he's the strongest Espada yet he's #5. Grimmjow out smarted and out-speeded Ulquiorra and Ulqy is #4. This is Bleach, not DBZ........not everything is pre-determined by powerlevels (ranks).

Grimmjow didn't "beat" Ulquiorra. He used a trick to buy time.

Byakuya is having to hurt himself in order to stop Le Roux's ability (and I know for certain that Byakuya > Grimmjow).

You know for CERTAIN?

I think that Le Roux > Grimmjow because he has the fastest Sonido and can control your entire body if he looks at your head. Grimmjow is an animal with no real abilities; he only has a higher killing intent/power than Le Roux, thus making his # higher.

You would think that controlling the brain would lead to instant kill? I guess it doesn't. Same with making a doll of your opponent and smashing all of their organs.

I think that numbers are also determined by personality/intelligence. Just look at how long it takes the lower espada numbers to kill their opponents when they can. Yami > Ichigo when they first fought and didn't kill him, orihime, nor Chad when he had the chance.......hella leinient.

Ichigo was getting "hindered" by Ogichi. He could have easily disposed of Yammy.

Aaron coulda killed Rukia numerous times, but got killed for playing too much.......hella stupid and plays with his prey. Syaelporro has been keeping Renji and Ishida alive and "won't" kill them, now he's about to get killed by Mayuri. Le Roux coulda looked at Byakuya's head instead of his foot and made him kill himself (Kenpachi vs bankai Tousen anyone?) right off the bat, but look at were he is now?

Stupidity is a huge factor - agreed.

Now we go to #6 and up. Grimmjow tried numerous times to kill ALL of his opponents and succeed in killing Luppi and the two arrancar girls that beat up Orihime. Noitora aced Grimmjow AND tried to kill him, Ichigo, and Nell. Ulquiorra follows orders but will kill you ASAP (look at what he did to Ichigo and orihime's escorts). Their numbers are determined by killing ability (their personalities may be a huge factor of their number).

Personality is a indicator of fault, not an multiplier of strength.

diamondedge

11-23-2007, 10:44 PM

I think unreleased Leroux would give hard time to unreleased Grimmjow, because speed wise, Leroux is better.

But once Grim would release, unreleased Leroux would not be enough for that Grimmy is quite fearsome and in released form, completely immobile. IF Leroux managed to seize control of Grimmjow without acting like an idiot and not kindly explaining beforehand what he is about to do and actually DO it, he could take down Grimmjow.

But the fact remains that Leroux is an idiot, so Grimmjow wins.

(I do however agree with lilmajin on certain statement)

Don't place such importance in numbers, Luppi was no.6 and he was trash. But he was 6th, that is still a rank above Leroux, but does anyone think he could take him down? And even more importantly, was there any specific reason Luppi took no.6?

Didn't think so.

Outlawz

11-24-2007, 05:49 AM

You would think that controlling the brain would lead to instant kill? I guess it doesn't. Same with making a doll of your opponent and smashing all of their organs.

Yea it does.

Said characters just had to 'torture' there opponents, so the opponents could have a chance.
Stupidity is a huge factor - agreed.

Not sure how Aaroniero falls under stupid.

No one should survive a trident through the stomach, even in Bleach.

smach

11-24-2007, 09:18 AM

I don't know about this one. Le Roux has a very gay ability. Also, because grimmjow is higher doesn't mean a thing. Noitora thinks that he's the strongest Espada yet he's #5. Grimmjow out smarted and out-speeded Ulquiorra and Ulqy is #4. This is Bleach, not DBZ........not everything is pre-determined by powerlevels (ranks). Byakuya is having to hurt himself in order to stop Le Roux's ability (and I know for certain that Byakuya > Grimmjow).from what we've seen so far, the zomari has no form of defense against a fast-moving opponent. byakuya's been standing there for 80% of the fight, while grim would just start ass-whooping without hesitation or bullshit talk.

I think that Le Roux > Grimmjow because he has the fastest Sonido and can control your entire body if he looks at your head. Grimmjow is an animal with no real abilities; he only has a higher killing intent/power than Le Roux, thus making his # higher.both zaraki n noitora think (to some extent) they're the strongest in their groops...

I think that numbers are also determined by personality/intelligence. Just look at how long it takes the lower espada numbers to kill their opponents when they can. Yami > Ichigo when they first fought and didn't kill him, orihime, nor Chad when he had the chance.......hella leinient. Aaron coulda killed Rukia numerous times, but got killed for playing too much.......hella stupid and plays with his prey. Syaelporro has been keeping Renji and Ishida alive and "won't" kill them, now he's about to get killed by Mayuri. Le Roux coulda looked at Byakuya's head instead of his foot and made him kill himself (Kenpachi vs bankai Tousen anyone?) right off the bat, but look at were he is now?n ichigo could've chopped yami's head off...same with byakuya vs zomari...

Now we go to #6 and up. Grimmjow tried numerous times to kill ALL of his opponents and succeed in killing Luppi and the two arrancar girls that beat up Orihime. Noitora aced Grimmjow AND tried to kill him, Ichigo, and Nell. Ulquiorra follows orders but will kill you ASAP (look at what he did to Ichigo and orihime's escorts).

Their numbers are determined by killing ability (their personalities may be a huge factor of their number).which goes to prove that....grim > zomari.

h3h3h3

11-24-2007, 08:51 PM

Yea it does.
Not sure how Aaroniero falls under stupid.
No one should survive a trident through the stomach, even in Bleach.
Welcome to Shounen :cm:

ninjabot

11-27-2007, 05:41 AM

After finding out the extent of Leroux's amor, I think I'm still leaning toward him as the winner. Reason being, is that while Grimmjow will be faster during his released state, he wouldn't be capable of attacking a blindspot, as Leroux has eyes all around him. No matter where he moves, there will be an eye waiting to place an amor seal on Grimm's person, whether it be his feet, arms, brain, whatever.

Grimmjow has a greater destructive capability than Leroux, but not so much that it overwhelms Leroux's defensive capabilities If he fires a Gran Ray or that large claw slash that he used against Ichigo at Leroux while he's released (I'm gonna assume Leroux can't move while released...or atleast not quickly) then what's to say he can't return them back to Grimmjow with amor?

The only real way I can see Grimmjow winning is through Leroux well...being stupid and allowing him time to form some sort of strategy. Which, I don't place Grimmjow too high in the strategizing department anyway.

Seff vi Britannia

11-28-2007, 06:21 PM

If Leroux could beat grimmjow, Leroux would be number 6...

fairly obvious, really. =\

h3h3h3

11-28-2007, 08:44 PM

Leroux would be begging even more if Grimmjow was there instead.

diamondedge

12-02-2007, 08:50 PM

Quite honestly, Lerou'x ability is HAX. Instant win by just looking at someone, but the way he used it against Byakuya was utterly retarded. If he gains control of the head (which is something really easy, where do you first look when you see someone? The eyes=head) he could simply have people stab himself. I highly doubt Grimjow is faster than speed of light, because that is how fast he'd need to be to avoid Leroux's look.

Since Grim has no extras to defend himself but just brute force, I'm giving this one to Leroux.

@Seff: Higher rank doesn't necessarily mean higher combat ability. Look at Luppi and look at Szayel. Numbers really aren't everything.
Grim > Zomari for sure, but that doesn't mean Grimmjow would auto win.

Undying

12-02-2007, 08:56 PM

Actually, numbers do dictate combat ability. While I cannot say about Luppi since he was there for around 5 chapters, Szayel states he has low combat ability. He compensates for it using his superior intelligence and scientific devices (such as the ability to stop someone from releasing, etc).

Anyway, Leroux's unreleased state is around as fast as Byakuya (since incredibly enough, Byakuya was able to see the Fastest Espada (tm) enough to follow all his clones and dodge using a special technique, but couldn't see Ichigo at all, and we know Ichigo and Grimmjow have a close speed), but Leroux's released state is useless in terms of sheer combat ability.

His reaction speed and lack of proper attacking power (and obviously, the fact he cannot control someone's head just by looking at it since he could only control Rukia from what we saw, and if he could control anyone at all he would be Primera Espada thanks to his hax ability), Grimmjow wins.

Grimmjow is faster/as fast as Byakuya, and Byakuya was way above Leroux's level.

Need I say more? It's clear that Grimmjow > Leroux, from all demonstrated power and abilities and fighting skill.

Plus, the rankings.

diamondedge

12-02-2007, 09:42 PM

Ah, i expressed myself wrong.

What I meant is that even with higher rank, there are more things that sheer force and speed that add to the winning factor.

In other words, brains.

If Leroux used his brains and controled his hax the way it should be, not just Grimmjow, but I don't really see anyone escaping it.

Undying

12-02-2007, 09:46 PM

Of course Leroux doesn't have brains :lol.

When was the last time any bad guy won in Bleach because of brains? Never. Every 1-on-1 confrontation, the bad guy ALWAYS neglects to use their brains.

First was Byakuya, shamefully enough. He managed to misuse his bankai to the extreme.

And then there was Ichigo, who instead of using his speed and spamming Getsuga Tenshou, started a swordfight.

And then there was Doldoni, who was talking talking talking talking until Ichigo had enough and he just used max power. If Doldoni used his brains and just used his released state to kill Ichigo at once rather than talking... and then there was Cirucci, who couldn't just shut up and murder Ishida.

And so on...

Whoever in Bleach is destined to lose with NEVER used their brains in time.

Chi

07-10-2008, 01:39 PM

I am going to have to agree with most of what's been said here... i think going by abilities from Zomari to Szayel to Aaroneiro, Yami must be incredibly... "weak and pathetic".

Plus there's a clear gap in power between Grimmjow and Zomari in terms of power that can't easily be covered but Zomari's unique abilities could prove problematic...

I would like Grimmjow for the win just cause he didn't go out screaming "Banzai Aizen-sama!!" But i doubt it ... -_-*

captainmawaluigi

07-11-2008, 02:38 AM

An odd fight with Grimm losing.

Unreleased....Grimm cant win....and released...Zomari would just use his eyes and the battle would end in an instant right....

smach

07-11-2008, 04:47 PM

Could you please explain why Grimm would lose...both sealed and released? :rolleye09

Chi

07-11-2008, 08:08 PM

Unreleased i think Zomari has the speed and numbers advantage (fastest Sonido/Clones).

Released Zomari has that possesion thing with his eyes, get Grimmjows legs or head and its over... I really want Grimmjow to win but I personally don't see a way, unless he shoots the spikes but i dunno if he as 52 of those

smach

07-11-2008, 08:16 PM

Zomari's lack of sufficient attack strength leads to the mootness of his clones. Not like it'll matter anyways, seeing how Grimmjow's reaction speed will turn the semi-drones into child's play.

Released Zomari is too retarded to take the first shot he gets, whereas Grimmjow's speed is gonna be leagues ahead, hence leading to his defeat.

Chi

07-11-2008, 08:18 PM

hehe Smach I hate Zomari more then the next guy, but he has the fastest Sonido, he's not going to be taken a back by grimmjow's speed. IF anything he's aware of it, but like you said he's not to bright and is the ultimate ass kisser.

smach

07-11-2008, 09:38 PM

As they say, movement speed =/= reaction speed. Zomari makes clones, Grimmjow destroys them all and cuts his head off.

Besides, we got no clue how good the range is on those eyes. Grimmjow torpedoes the pumpkin through buildings with kicks and punches and if that isn't enough he uses the almighty claw attack or the stakes.

Chi

07-12-2008, 04:52 AM

As they say, movement speed =/= reaction speed. Zomari makes clones, Grimmjow destroys them all and cuts his head off.
Haha, i think your being a little biased here, and just because some people on here say its true doesn't mean its actually true. Plus thats assuming that Zomari doesn't lop off Grimmjow's head first instead of surrounding him with clones.
Besides, we got no clue how good the range is on those eyes. Grimmjow torpedoes the pumpkin through buildings with kicks and punches and if that isn't enough he uses the almighty claw attack or the stakes.
The prase as far as the eye can see comes to mind, which would apply to grimmjow too since he'd need to see where to aim it at.

Jin

07-12-2008, 05:10 AM

Haha, i think your being a little biased here, and just because some people on here say its true doesn't mean its actually true.

Movement Speed =/= Reaction Speed =/= Sonido/Shunpo Speed.

If you don't believe it, go for a run then have someone unexpectedly throw something at you or "think fast," as some call it. Shunpo/Sonido should be self-explanatory since it's an ability.

Of course, this post is under the assumption you were referring to speeds.

Chi

07-12-2008, 05:17 AM

@Esca: According to you which is faster? Shunpo/sonido or overall speed??? Cause i would say Shunpo/sonido as being the ability to move faster then the eye can see.

smach

07-12-2008, 05:23 AM

Zomari has the fastest sonido, meaning he can take faster steps. So what does he gain from it? Semi-clones, which don't mean jack when your opponent has better movement+reaction speed than you.

Byakuya managed to intercept one of the eyes in an attempt to protect Rukia and also form a kidou barrier, all while the eyes were in action. Byakuya doesn't have Grimmjow's speed, in all three areas.

Chi

07-12-2008, 05:26 AM

OKay for the love of god stop!

this is getting ridiculous... Shunpo/Sonidoo is the ability to see faster then the eye can see. How is there a movement speed faster then that?

Plus Byakuya saw the clones formed by Zomari not Zomari himself... and Grimmjow doesn't have Kidou sorry to say. So that point is moot ain't it?

smach

07-12-2008, 05:34 AM

Byakuya saw them but couldn't react effectively when faced by more than one. That's why he used sonido.

Zomari's strength...f*ck this, i need to go get drunk.

laterz

Jin

07-12-2008, 05:52 AM

According to you which is faster? Shunpo/sonido or overall speed??? Cause i would say Shunpo/sonido as being the ability to move faster then the eye can see.

Shunpo and Sonido can be a part of overall speed, they are not overall speed itself. And obviously that move description is outdated, it's a high speed movement technique.

OKay for the love of god stop!

this is getting ridiculous... Shunpo/Sonidoo is the ability to see faster then the eye can see. How is there a movement speed faster then that?

Really? A jogger can be faster than someone who leaps. There is a movement speed faster as shown by a comparison of anyone strong to anyone weak.

Chi

07-12-2008, 06:03 AM

Ok i get the reaction speed thing, but i don't think all shunpo/sonido speeds are equal. So that would mean that there isn't a cap on either shunpo/sonido so it should equate to movement speed. So Ulquiorra was fast as hell but compared to Zomari he's still slower. So it also would mean Grimmjow's slower then Zomari's unreleased form. Would it not?

I am trying my best to understand it all.

Jin

07-12-2008, 06:07 AM

Movement Speed =/= Shunpo/Sonido Speed as it's an ability. Sure, Zomari can Sonido "faster" than Ulquiorra (he makes clones which means it exceeds the speed of light), but that does not make him faster.

Yes, Shunpo Speeds are not equivalent to one another, but that doesn't make it your overall or movement speed.

Say Rukia had the fastest Shunpo and she was paired against Grimmjow. Does that make her faster than him? No. She would get owned so hard, heads would explode upon reading such a thing.

Chi

07-12-2008, 06:33 AM

:S

that really freaking confuses me that he can move faster then light but will get out run'd by Grimmjow or Ulq. That's what makes me go wanky in the brain.

Jin

07-12-2008, 06:35 AM

It's an ABILITY. That's what's confusing you - it's not overall speed, it's not movement speed, it's the speed of his ability. Understand that and the rest should fall in line.

smach

07-12-2008, 10:17 PM

Shunpo = flash step = taking steps..."in a flash"

Some take long ones, some take short ones.

Shunsui can take huge ones, Zomari takes short ones. If we were going to measure distance covered, Shunsui would win without a doubt.

Zomari's sonido gives him the ability to make multiple holograms. That's good and all, but It doesn't help much when you've got nothing else to put on the table and compliment it, like reaction speed and movement speed.

It's like putting a nascar engine on an old chassi you picked up in a junkyard. Sure, you got the power to go 200mph, but your car can't handle such high speeds, so at the end of it all you'll be screwed when facing a street-tuned car, and maybe even the stock ones.

Not exactly the best example out there, but that's pretty much how it is. Zomari's flash steps are so fast he can leave multiple afterimages, but that's all he can do. His sword skills are whack, he's got no strength so his hits don't amount to jack, and his reaction speed phails on all counts when compared to Grimmjow.

Undying

07-12-2008, 10:24 PM

Zomari doesn't leave behind holograms. He leaves behind actual bodies. They have mass and can damage the opponent. It's enough of an ability by itself to catch someone not ready for it as long as Leroux can damage them.

smach

07-12-2008, 11:32 PM

^ With Grimmjow it's gonna be like five Renjis trying to attack Byakuya with their swords...aka mootness.

captainmawaluigi

07-14-2008, 07:31 PM

This is an awkward battle, because we never saw Zomari land a hit....we dont even know how powerful he is, and his ability...is HAX. Its on a Tousen/Aizen type level. Then if he is on such a level, why is he so lowly ranked? I mean what can be stronger than having the enemy fight itself right?

If its likened to a demon art, then it can be overpowered physically, and if Byakuyas shield blocked his 'love' attack, then I assume physical strength can also overcome his powers, as physical strength has overcome even a level 99 demon art.

Grimmjow for the win.