Zaraki Kepachi vs Kuchiki Byakuya[SPOILER]

[RedApostasy]

Zaraki would win in my opinion
Hes a monster
The fact that he was fighting 2 captains at the same time nd was winning just shows his skill
Nd i know that the A>B B>C so A>C thing doesnt work
But if Byakuya was fighting those 2 captains I think i would have been so easy 4 the captains 2 kill him
For some1 who doesnt even kno his sword name he is still strong
Im not even gonna get into 5>8 cause 8 just sucked thats why byakuya won

The two most weaksauce captains who have been shown to be nothing but fail so far.

I think Byakuya would win personally. He's smarter and faster. Sure Kenpachi took on the stronger Espada and won but Byakuya also took on a stronger Ichigo and didn't lose. Those points are pretty moot. Plus do you think Byakuya could have taken on Nnoitra? I do. Could Kepnachi have beat Zommari? I seriously doubt it.

[xxSenbozakura]

just cos zaraki fought number 5 and byakuya fought 7 doesnt mean zaraki> byakuya, they were just pure match ups, i doubt any of you would have used that had shunsui fought let's say number 10 cos their abilities matched and countered, would that have meant that shunsui is weaker than byakuya or Kenpachi.
Byakuya sword is very versatile and firing from long range will be kenpachi downfall plus Kenpachi only relies on close quarters.
gokei SKY will box him up, if he gets up again another gokei, again and again till he is down and no more.

[Stalk]

Zaraki simply wouldn't catch Byakuya. I'm against though thinking it'd be easy for Bya to bring him down, even in bankai, as Zaraki has plenty of endurance:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/139/16/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/310/18/

lol @ anyone saying otherwise...

just cos zaraki fought number 5 and byakuya fought 7 doesnt mean zaraki> byakuya, they were just pure match ups, i doubt any of you would have used that had shunsui fought let's say number 10 cos their abilities matched and countered, would that have meant that shunsui is weaker than byakuya or Kenpachi.

Kubo would never make Shunsui's counterpart within the Espada to be 10th or all the hype and expectation towards him would be throwed away. It's called droppin' hints, Kubo maybe is telling us something by matching Zaraki up with the 5th and Byakuya with the 7th. That perhaps just perhaps, Zaraki, though unable to take on Byakuya straight on, is overall stronger than him.

[KholdStare]

Refer to the context in which I responded to your quote next time. You said "I don't think anyone said that", which is wrong. I corrected you.


Hmmm... I've searched the last 4 pages and nobody said that Zaraki would waltz through Byakuya with ease. The opposite on the other hand, was said. Which is why I am arguing.

Exactly. Hence this alleged "loss" is no loss at all, ergo it cannot be used to lower Byakuya's worth.


It's not a loss because it has no deeper meaning?


Manga page please. Zangetsu stated that Ichigo's enemy is "himself", so Ichigo and Ogichi are one and the same, now?

Also, by "the same" I refer to power sources. Zangetsu and Ogichi were two separate power sources until Ichigo (and therefore Ogichi) subjugated Zangetsu's full potential to their will. Ogichi then "ate" Zangetsu, making himself and Zangetsu the same power source in order to allow himself to take over Ichigo.

Ogichi's power comes from Ichigo and Zangetsu. All three are one and the same.. I don't see why you try to differentiate them. If a coin could have three sides, they are three sides of the same coin. I don't see any point to further argue on this, Byakuya lost the fight, while Zaraki did not. Zaraki was the last man standing and Byakuya clearly said that Ichigo was the victor.


Zaraki himself says he was going to die from a few holes in his body.
Vaizard GT possesses much more power than Nnoitora's hand, and two of them colliding are way higher than that. Byakuya was hardly phased.


So wait, the 4th Espada can stop the Vaizard GT with his hand, yet the 5th Espada's released attacks have much less power than the Vaizard GT?

Byakuya was hardly phased? That's laughable. He was shunpoing away for his life.


And don't overrated Zaraki's stamina so much. Byakuya has as much if not more, and that by what's been shown. If you wish to believe a hypothetical situation where Zaraki can take on a similar amount of damage and remain standing (when a single full-powered blow from shikai Zangetsu was enough to completely stop him while at full power), then do so, but it won't make it any more real.


There is a reason why the databooks put Zaraki's stamina at 100%.


Byakuya's stamina is greater than Zaraki's. It's been demonstrated and shown time and again.

I fail to see it ever have been shown that Byakuya's stamina > Zaraki's. That's exactly what Zaraki has: stamina and reiatsu. These two things are what allow him to be a captain with no bankai.


Some people even claim that Zaraki's power was decreasing form the measly scratches Ichigo put on him... that's how low his stamina is.

Lol @ "measly" scratches by the protagonist. I think you fail to see that the shikai Ichigo which Zaraki faced had reiatsu > than the one Byakuya faced. It was less than Vaizard Ichigo, but Ichigo and Byakuya never had a clash of reiatsu like Zaraki and Ichigo did. In the end, Ichigo did break Byakuya's sword, and that was WITHOUT the help of Ogichi. Remember that his bankai doesn't increase his firepower, so his final strike on Zaraki and Byakuya is of similar strength.


The Primera has a bigger bazooka, is all. :cm:


Way to dodge the question.


Ah, yes, yes, the age-old argument, "he was 8th". People chant it like a mantra.



The Espada ranking is not based on combat strength, or on power. Nnoitora ranked "higher than Zomari" merely indicates that his "killing potential" is higher, not that he is in any other manner superior. Zomari's ability is far superior to Nnoitora's. Grimmjow is a far superior fighter.


www.readbleach.com

Chapter 209, page 5.

I think it's made pretty clear how the numbers are assigned.


Had Zaraki faced Zomari, he would have been defeated, as he does not have Kido to defend against said ability, he cannot dodge it with shunpo, and he does not have a weapon that counters that ability. On the other hand if Byakuya fought Nnoitora, Byakuya would most likely have won as he is a far superior fighter, only potentially slightly lower in brute strength, for which he more than compensates by being able to simply bind Nnoitora with a Kido and cut his head off long before Nnoitora releases.


You agreed that Byakuya probably couldn't cut through Noitora's hierro but you think he can kill him?

Also, we all know the fights were rigged but if Kubo wanted to show Zaraki > Byakuya, why didn't he just switch the espada ranking of Noitara and Zomari?


Byakuay could have beaten Nnoitora. I proved it in the Nnoitora VS Byakuya thread and right above this quote.

I don't think you "proved" anything. You had a theory which several people disagreed with. When you prove something, it's factual. Your theory is in no way factual.


But since you insist, I'll point two things. One, if A > B and B > C it does not mean that in Bleach A > B. Just because allegedly Nnoitora is in any manner superior to Zomari (which he is not as I proved easily using their shown abilities), does not mean that Zaraki is in any manner superior to Byakuya.


Stronger people fight stronger characters. Simple as that. They are NUMBERED so their power can be quantified.


Now, I realize that you will attempt to turn this logic against me (just because Byakuya can beat Zomari doesn't mean he can beat Zaraki), but considering Byakuya fought a superior opponent, by your own logic Byakuya is superior.

No sir, I already dealt with this. In a completely different manner.


By my logic Byakuya is superior

That's a given.

by possessing a far greater repertoire of abilities,
Yes, he does have more abilities.

having an equal or greater stamina,

Disagreed.

being superbly faster

Agreed.

possessing a superior weapon,

Agreed.

being far more intelligent,


When has Byakuya shown us to be an intelligent person?

and being equipped for both long and short range combat without much trouble.

Not well equiped for Zaraki's short range. Zaraki's 1 kendo hit wipes out Byakuya.


But since you're using those fights as proof, Byakuya > Zomari > Zaraki > Nnoitora. You will try to use the "this isn't DBZ" quote, but either you're using that logic yourself or your point is null and void.

Perhaps I should let you argue with yourself as you feel you already know everything I am going to say.


Flashbacks. Nnoitora is 8th. Then you have the present where Nnoitora still lacks any ability to counter Zomari's and still being an inferior fighter.

Ulquiorra lacks any ability to counter and so does Grimmjow. Are they both inferior to Zomari as well? I suppose the Primera must be inferior to Zomari as well if he shows no direct counter.



Grimmjow is the superior fighter. That is clearly demonstrated by his versatile fighting style, multiple techniques, familiarity with the concept of dodging, and speed.

Yet NONE of that matters by your logic if he were to ever fight Zomari.
However. Grimmjow's killing ability is lower than Nnoitora as Nnoitora can utilize his regenerative powers to kill more easily. That is why Nnoitora is ranked higher. In any terms of combat ability, versatility, or technique, Grimmjow far surpasses Nnoitora.


In truth, he is inferior to at least two of supposedly "lower ranked" fighters - Grimmjow and Zomari.

And yet the power hungry Grimmjow didn't do anything to take Noitora's 5th rank? If he could, he would.

That is because the Espada ranking system is not based on strength or combat ability.


That's funny, because that is exactly how it is translated in the manga.
www.readbleach.com chapter 209, page 6

Anyway, whoever said it would be a waltz?

xxSekenbonzakura

[[L]]

I dont think it was a draw...when your sword breaks you lose :)...This would be hard press to say who would win in this fight. I think I would find it close if they fought now rather than in the SS arc. I have this feeling though with all this new power zaraki is showing that he somehow found out his swords name and it just waiting to show it off later in the story.wrong man. u still have spells sword or not ichigo pounded through 3 nliutenants with onlt his bare hands.

[[L]]

Hmmm... I've searched the last 4 pages and nobody said that Zaraki would waltz through Byakuya with ease. The opposite on the other hand, was said. Which is why I am arguing.



It's not a loss because it has no deeper meaning?


Ogichi's power comes from Ichigo and Zangetsu. All three are one and the same.. I don't see why you try to differentiate them. If a coin could have three sides, they are three sides of the same coin. I don't see any point to further argue on this, Byakuya lost the fight, while Zaraki did not. Zaraki was the last man standing and Byakuya clearly said that Ichigo was the victor.



So wait, the 4th Espada can stop the Vaizard GT with his hand, yet the 5th Espada's released attacks have much less power than the Vaizard GT?

Byakuya was hardly phased? That's laughable. He was shunpoing away for his life.



There is a reason why the databooks put Zaraki's stamina at 100%.


I fail to see it ever have been shown that Byakuya's stamina > Zaraki's. That's exactly what Zaraki has: stamina and reiatsu. These two things are what allow him to be a captain with no bankai.


Lol @ "measly" scratches by the protagonist. I think you fail to see that the shikai Ichigo which Zaraki faced had reiatsu > than the one Byakuya faced. It was less than Vaizard Ichigo, but Ichigo and Byakuya never had a clash of reiatsu like Zaraki and Ichigo did. In the end, Ichigo did break Byakuya's sword, and that was WITHOUT the help of Ogichi. Remember that his bankai doesn't increase his firepower, so his final strike on Zaraki and Byakuya is of similar strength.



Way to dodge the question.





www.readbleach.com (http://www.readbleach.com)

Chapter 209, page 5.

I think it's made pretty clear how the numbers are assigned.



You agreed that Byakuya probably couldn't cut through Noitora's hierro but you think he can kill him?

Also, we all know the fights were rigged but if Kubo wanted to show Zaraki > Byakuya, why didn't he just switch the espada ranking of Noitara and Zomari?


I don't think you "proved" anything. You had a theory which several people disagreed with. When you prove something, it's factual. Your theory is in no way factual.



Stronger people fight stronger characters. Simple as that. They are NUMBERED so their power can be quantified.


No sir, I already dealt with this. In a completely different manner.


That's a given.

Yes, he does have more abilities.

Disagreed.

Agreed.

Agreed.


When has Byakuya shown us to be an intelligent person?

Not well equiped for Zaraki's short range. Zaraki's 1 kendo hit wipes out Byakuya.


Perhaps I should let you argue with yourself as you feel you already know everything I am going to say.


Ulquiorra lacks any ability to counter and so does Grimmjow. Are they both inferior to Zomari as well? I suppose the Primera must be inferior to Zomari as well if he shows no direct counter.



Yet NONE of that matters by your logic if he were to ever fight Zomari.
However. Grimmjow's killing ability is lower than Nnoitora as Nnoitora can utilize his regenerative powers to kill more easily. That is why Nnoitora is ranked higher. In any terms of combat ability, versatility, or technique, Grimmjow far surpasses Nnoitora.


And yet the power hungry Grimmjow didn't do anything to take Noitora's 5th rank? If he could, he would.


That's funny, because that is exactly how it is translated in the manga.
www.readbleach.com (http://www.readbleach.com) chapter 209, page 6



xxSekenbonzakurai chose this post because of how long it is. this is only a show. you guys do know your stuuf but isnt this just a little too though out for anyone other than L himself. sorry for posting(x2)

[Sin]

Zaraki simply wouldn't catch Byakuya. I'm against though thinking it'd be easy for Bya to bring him down, even in bankai, as Zaraki has plenty of endurance:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/139/16/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/310/18/

lol @ anyone saying otherwise...
hmmm well here's to you for thinking Zaraki is a one trick pony:

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/poisonx_xgirl/Urahara%20Kisuke/Stupid.jpg


Kubo would never make Shunsui's counterpart within the Espada to be 10th or all the hype and expectation towards him would be throwed away. It's called droppin' hints, Kubo maybe is telling us something by matching Zaraki up with the 5th and Byakuya with the 7th. That perhaps just perhaps, Zaraki, though unable to take on Byakuya straight on, is overall stronger than him.
How exactly does that work?

If am stronger then you, that pretty much means i can woop your A.S.S.

Also the perfect thing about Zaraki is that you can't put anything past him


He says he doesn't have any common sense, but often displays it.
He says he's not aware of things around him, but he notices things about people whom don't even realize it themselves.
We all thought he was done for against Nnoitra cause Ichigo couldn't even scratch him, apparently he was just warming up to get the rust off his blade.
We never thought he would have an attack with that much power in it while he's been fighting for so long but he gets serious and we see Kendo
So who's to say that when he needs to catch someone like Byakuya he can't just because he said he hates to chase around weaklings and Byakuya isn't weak.

Truth is you or nobody here can say for sure how fast he is because he's never gone all out with his speed. But he isn't known for it doesn't mean he doesn't have it either. Hell name one specific thing Ukitake is known for except for being sick are you going to say the other capts can best him at it because of that? that's just stupid... so stop and use logic and common sense before posting such ridiculous things and this is directed at everyone.

/rant

Now as far as byakuya and Zaraki i'll retain the disposition that their respective fights had more to do with like abilities going at it then anything else. Nnoitra did have more reiatsu then Zomari but Zomari was pretty easily defeated and isn't a testament to Byakuya's power. Nor was his fight with Ichigo. This goes for Zaraki as well because the fight with Ichigo counters the set power he had then by revealing just how strong he was against Nnoitra. So there really isn't much to say because I don't give neither one advantage over the other. Byakuya in Bankai would range around Zaraki true question is he patched or unpatched. Because Patched Zaraki ****ed up two capts who went in Bankai. So... that's what i dunno

[Undying]

Hmmm... I've searched the last 4 pages and nobody said that Zaraki would waltz through Byakuya with ease. The opposite on the other hand, was said. Which is why I am arguing.
The opposite was said before. Search earlier pages :cm:

It's not a loss because it has no deeper meaning?
It's not a loss because Byakuya was the last man standing, not Ichigo. That is all.


Ogichi's power comes from Ichigo and Zangetsu. All three are one and the same.. I don't see why you try to differentiate them. If a coin could have three sides, they are three sides of the same coin. I don't see any point to further argue on this, Byakuya lost the fight, while Zaraki did not. Zaraki was the last man standing and Byakuya clearly said that Ichigo was the victor.
Byakuya was the last man standing while Zaraki collapsed with Ichigo, and his sword broke.

Byakuya won and Zaraki lost. Keep your facts on straight plz.

Anyway, Ogichi, Zangetsu and Ichigo are three separate entities existing in the same soul. Ogichi and Zangetsu were originally two different power sources until Ogichi consumed Zangetsu and became the same power source.

So wait, the 4th Espada can stop the Vaizard GT with his hand, yet the 5th Espada's released attacks have much less power than the Vaizard GT?
Why yes, of course. I thought it was fairly obviously by the fact that a GT tends to leave massive destruction in its path while Nnoitora's swings hardly cause the same amount of damage. I suppose some need to be told that :cm:

Byakuya was hardly phased? That's laughable. He was shunpoing away for his life.
Byakuya was hit. And he could still continue on fighting. And even after that he coudl still take on even more damage. Zaraki was brought down by one bloody swing of Ichigo's shikai Zangetsu.

Are you claiming that Ogichi's GT in bankai has less power than Ichigo's shikai swing? Now that's laughable.

There is a reason why the databooks put Zaraki's stamina at 100%.
Yeah. He cannot grow more in stamina. I.e., his stamina reached its own personal peak.

I fail to see it ever have been shown that Byakuya's stamina > Zaraki's. That's exactly what Zaraki has: stamina and reiatsu. These two things are what allow him to be a captain with no bankai.
I showed very, very clearly why Byakuya's stamina is superior to Zaraki's. Let me just reiterate:

Byakuya took on more powerful attacks and was still standing and could take more damage. End of story. Period. Capish. Finite. The person who can take more damage and still stand is the one with superior stamina. Zaraki's brute strength surpasses Byakuya (hence why Byakuya has technique, intelligence, speed, etc. to compensate for lacking in strength area), but as far as stamina goes, Byakuya is evidently the superior one.

Zaraki not having anything else beside that doesn't mean they are superior to everyone else's.

Lol @ "measly" scratches by the protagonist. I think you fail to see that the shikai Ichigo which Zaraki faced had reiatsu > than the one Byakuya faced. It was less than Vaizard Ichigo, but Ichigo and Byakuya never had a clash of reiatsu like Zaraki and Ichigo did. In the end, Ichigo did break Byakuya's sword, and that was WITHOUT the help of Ogichi. Remember that his bankai doesn't increase his firepower, so his final strike on Zaraki and Byakuya is of similar strength.
His bankai doesn't increase his firepower, but Ogichi's power far, far surpasses that of shikai Ichigo.

Ichigo put a few measly scratches on Zaraki's chest and arms and that made him weaker?

Anyway, the firepower and brute force that Byakuya face are far superior to what Zaraki faced. Why? Because it was effin' Ogichi. His reiatsu is stated to be greater than Ulqiorra.

What you evidently fail to see is that a technique carries a greater destructive force than a simple clash of reiatsu. A condensed power strike (Getsuga Tenshou) is far superior to a simple swing backed up by Reiatsu.

Byakuya took on two of those and was still standing. Zaraki fell down and his sword broke after a far lesser blow. Zaraki lost and Byakuya didn't. End of. Stop trying to excuse yourself because you hate Byakuya plz.

Way to dodge the question.
I didn't dodge it - you'd do well to think about the provided example.

www.readbleach.com

Chapter 209, page 5.

I think it's made pretty clear how the numbers are assigned.
Killing power.

Have you even read your own provided evidence before gushing your Byakuya hate in my face?

You agreed that Byakuya probably couldn't cut through Noitora's hierro but you think he can kill him?
I agreed that sealed Byakuya probably couldn't cut through Nnoitora's Ierro. A x10 power increase would compensate for that, unfortunately.

Also, we all know the fights were rigged but if Kubo wanted to show Zaraki > Byakuya, why didn't he just switch the espada ranking of Noitara and Zomari?
Because Zomari's killing ability is lower than Nnoitora's. As the manga states clearly, the Espada are ranked by killing power. Zomari's killing power is lower than Nnoitora's since Nnoitora's abilities are more direct. Hence why he is ranked lower. Do I need to reiterate what is written? The Espada are ranked based on killing power. Zomari's killing power is lower. He is ranked lower. That doesn't make him weaker.

I don't think you "proved" anything. You had a theory which several people disagreed with. When you prove something, it's factual. Your theory is in no way factual.
My "theory" has every support behind it that can convince anyone reasonable. I can't convince someone who insists on debating against me because he hates Byakuya.

I proved that Byakuya has more stamina endurance, and druability.

I proved that Byakuya is superior in every aspect save for brute strength.

I proved that Byakuya would win based on those aspects.

All you have to toss against me "well Zaraki beat the guy with more killing power so he's obviously stronger".


Stronger people fight stronger characters. Simple as that. They are NUMBERED so their power can be quantified.
Their numbers indicate their killing ability. Their demonstration of power indicates their power. With the sole exception of the highest caliber of fighters who will by necessity have more power than anyone else, everyone's strength up until them is not dictated by numbers.

Yammy is stronger than Aaroniero. Szayel can defeat Zommari. Grimmjow is superior to Nnoitora in fighting.

Their ranking has nothing to do with their power levels.

No sir, I already dealt with this. In a completely different manner.
And I disproved you. Hating Byakuya isn't evidence.



Disagreed.
On what grounds? That Byakuya can take more damage and still go on while Zaraki collapsed after an inferior blow?

When has Byakuya shown us to be an intelligent person?
How about "figuring out your opponent's abilities based on seeing it twice"? He's succeeded in what many haven't so far; realizing the weaknesses in Zomari's abilities which allowed him to win.

Not well equiped for Zaraki's short range. Zaraki's 1 kendo hit wipes out Byakuya.
Are you claiming that Zaraki's Kendo hit has more power than Ogichi's double Getsuga? My my.

Perhaps I should let you argue with yourself as you feel you already know everything I am going to say.
Way to dodge the question.
Ulquiorra lacks any ability to counter and so does Grimmjow. Are they both inferior to Zomari as well? I suppose the Primera must be inferior to Zomari as well if he shows no direct counter.
They have the speed to counter, as well as ranged abilities. Don't try and twist logic just because you have nothing better to try and prove your incorrect views with.

Yet NONE of that matters by your logic if he were to ever fight Zomari.
However. Grimmjow's killing ability is lower than Nnoitora as Nnoitora can utilize his regenerative powers to kill more easily. That is why Nnoitora is ranked higher. In any terms of combat ability, versatility, or technique, Grimmjow far surpasses Nnoitora.

And yet the power hungry Grimmjow didn't do anything to take Noitora's 5th rank? If he could, he would.
No evidence to that, Grimmjow is not power hungry, he's battle thirsty, and Aizen forbade Grimmjow to do anything anyway. Besides. The ranking of the Espada is absolute. Since Grimmjow has no greater killing ability he cannot go up a rank. Only with his killing ability upgraded he can rank higher. Since his killing power is lower he is ranked lower.

That's funny, because that is exactly how it is translated in the manga.
www.readbleach.com chapter 209, page 6
Do you even read the evidence you provide?

"Those who excel in killing power are favored..."

KILLING POWER.

[INDENT]hmmm well here's to you for thinking Zaraki is a one trick pony:

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/poisonx_xgirl/Urahara%20Kisuke/Stupid.jpg

^This should be aimed at you.

Zaraki is the very effing definition of a one-trick pony. He has nothing beside brute strength and stamina working behind his battle style. He does not vary his attacks (simple slashes), he doesn't have any techniques or abilities.

The very definition of a one-trick pony. He has only one trick.

How exactly does that work?

If am stronger then you, that pretty much means i can woop your A.S.S.

Also the perfect thing about Zaraki is that you can't put anything past him
Byakuya is stronger than Zaraki :busy: So he can whoop his ass. And you can put a whole load past Zaraki.

He says he doesn't have any common sense, but often displays it.
Not in combat.
He says he's not aware of things around him, but he notices things about people whom don't even realize it themselves.
Irrelevant to combat... and when has Zaraki noticed anything about anyone anyway?
We all thought he was done for against Nnoitra cause Ichigo couldn't even scratch him, apparently he was just warming up to get the rust off his blade.
Err, the Kendo was the bull****test plotkai ever, except Mayuri's. Zaraki was done for... if Kubo would actually stop wanking off to his characters. And Kendo is hardly useful against anyone familiar with the concept of dodging. You know, sidesteppin' and stuff?
[We never thought he would have an attack with that much power in it while he's been fighting for so long but he gets serious and we see Kendo
Dodging~
So who's to say that when he needs to catch someone like Byakuya he can't just because he said he hates to chase around weaklings and Byakuya isn't weak.

He can't "catch" Byakuya because Byakuya is so much faster he would kill him before Zaraki could pull another senseless plotkai out of his ass.
Truth is you or nobody here can say for sure how fast he is because he's never gone all out with his speed. But he isn't known for it doesn't mean he doesn't have it either. Hell name one specific thing Ukitake is known for except for being sick are you going to say the other capts can best him at it because of that? that's just stupid... so stop and use logic and common sense before posting such ridiculous things and this is directed at everyone.
What common sense is there in claiming that suddenly Zaraki is faster than someone whose abilities are flawless and whose speed techniques are "nothing for him"?

You're just trying to forcibly prove Zaraki's superiority. Byakuya is the superior fighter.

All together now:

Byakuya is faster

Byakuya is smarter

Byakuya has more weapons

Byakuya has more stamina

Byakuya has more skills and abilities

Byakuya has a load more technique

Byakuya can dodge Zaraki easily

Byakuya is by far superior to Zaraki.

There, that wasn't that hard, now was it?

Now as far as byakuya and Zaraki i'll retain the disposition that their respective fights had more to do with like abilities going at it then anything else. Nnoitra did have more reiatsu then Zomari but Zomari was pretty easily defeated and isn't a testament to Byakuya's power. Nor was his fight with Ichigo. This goes for Zaraki as well because the fight with Ichigo counters the set power he had then by revealing just how strong he was against Nnoitra. So there really isn't much to say because I don't give neither one advantage over the other. Byakuya in Bankai would range around Zaraki true question is he patched or unpatched. Because Patched Zaraki ****ed up two capts who went in Bankai. So... that's what i dunno
Patched Zaraki never fought two captains in bankai. He fought two shikai-wielding captains and one bankai-using captain... to whom he was the perfect counter.

Byakuya is the superior fighter and will win. I just fail to see why people insist on not seeing that when everything points in that direction.

[Jonathan696]

Byakuya just beat a 7,

and if Zaraki beats a 5, that may set in stone who is stronger of the two Captains. though some can still rightfully argue Byakuya is at least equal to Zaraki unless proven wrong.

also I still facepalm at the people who doubt Zaraki will ever achieve Bankai. people fear it would cause him to lose his uniqueness from the other Captains, but there's only so much reiatsu he can output before he's reached a new limit. Plus he would end up being boring if his sword never speaks to him.

Maybe Zaraki won't Bankai in Las Noches, but he will/should eventually. I don't see any other way he can achieve a new level of power besides either packing on more reiatsu or Bankai.

but Noitora releasing WILL make Zaraki reveal something to even the odds.



Yes Zaraki defeated Noitora but still doesn't say that Byakuya couldn't ......... Byakuya beat Zommari pretty effortlessly ..... so kinda goes without saying ..... i'm pretty sure byakuya could probably even destroy Ulquiorra but that more than likely will be left to Ichigo ......

[Stalk]

@Chi: Seems your inference skills are a bit (a lot?) off 'cuz I never said Zaraki posses no speed. Regardless of wether you believe he can shunpo on par with say Shikai Ichigo or is a complete tortoise, the common sense is that Byakuya is faster than him.

I like how you come out of nowhere telling me to try and use common sense when all you're doing is blindly defending a character that has little to no chance here, with little attempt at actually telling me how anything I said is wrong or "ridiculous". By 'Zaraki is perhaps overall stronger than Byakuya' I meant a possible mirroring from the Espada context: Nnoitra for example is overall stronger than Zommari but, unless he displays speed at least close to the likes of Byakuya, would be hopeless against his Amor.

On a side note, childish insults/pics won't win any arguments for you let alone hit me, so next time when you have nothing better to say and feel like randomly throwing them, just save it.

@Poster above me: Dude you're blalantly mistaken. Byakuya can hardly fight or par with Ulq let alone destroy him.

[Undying]

Yes Zaraki defeated Noitora but still doesn't say that Byakuya couldn't ......... Byakuya beat Zommari pretty effortlessly ..... so kinda goes without saying ..... i'm pretty sure byakuya could probably even destroy Ulquiorra but that more than likely will be left to Ichigo ......
Errr... no.

As much as I hate saying this, being a Byakuya fan and all that crap... Ulqiorra would wrap Byakuya in a nice little package and kick him all the way to mars.

Without even getting wounded. Not only Byakuya has no chance whatsoever against Ulqiorra (just by demonstrated power - Ulqiorra wasn't even remotely scratched by a full powered Getsuga from VBIchigo and after being blown through walls, even though we all know in anime, flesh and blood are far tougher materials than concrete and stone. Byakuya could still go but hell, he was at his utmost limit. Two slashes afterwards and he was practically dying), claiming he's capable of destroying Ulqiorra is the same as claiming Hitsugaya will beat Aizen.

As for beating Zommari "pretty effortlessly" - for the umpteenth time, he only really won because he had the ability (Kido) and weapon (SKY) to perfectly counter Zommari's ability. If he hadn't, well... chances are he would not have waltzed around there like that.

I won't bother reiterating exactly how Zommari's ability works because it's pretty obvious from what he shown (it's obviously a Kido-type beam of some sort, it can be blocked and can miss, etc.) us.

And just for the record, I believe Zaraki could probably beat Zommari. He'd lose a limb or two, but he could probably overpower Amor in a manner similar to Ishida's puppet power thing. That based only on the assumption that since Reiatsu can break through Kido (Ichigo - ch1).

But yeah...
@Chi: Seems your inference skills are a bit (a lot?) off 'cuz I never said Zaraki posses no speed. Regardless of wether you believe he can shunpo on par with say Shikai Ichigo or is a complete tortoise, the common sense is that Byakuya is faster than him.

I like how you come out of nowhere telling me to try and use common sense when all you're doing is blindly defending a character that has little to no chance here, with little attempt at actually telling me how anything I said is wrong or "ridiculous". By 'Zaraki is perhaps overall stronger than Byakuya' I meant a possible mirroring from the Espada context: Nnoitra for example is overall stronger than Zommari but, unless he displays speed at least close to the likes of Byakuya, would be hopeless against his Amor.

On a side note, childish insults/pics won't win any arguments for you let alone hit me, so next time when you have nothing better to say and feel like randomly throwing them, just save it.

@Poster above me: Dude you're blalantly mistaken. Byakuya is nowhere near fighting or par with Ulq let alone destroying him.
:Domo

Byakuya has this. Every common sense supports this.

Why is this thread still open? Most other "obvious victory" threads have been closed...

[Sin]

@stalk: :| *yawns* /bored leaves

@undying: obvious? nothing obvious about this, trying to say this is how it would go is like playing dice you win some you lose some. Yeah its true Byakuya could do all this and all that and it could hurt Zaraki and hurt him badly but on the other hand maybe it won't so there's nothing obvious about this fight, i much rather see them fight then to claim to know anything about how this is going to go *shrugs off previous posts returns to CoD4 xboxlive*

edit: Undying thanks for the rep

[smach]

SKY won't do a thing to patchless Zaraki, Senkei won't be that useful either; Hakuteiken is the best chance Byakuya has.

Arguing about the first two stages is pointless IMO, especially SKY.

[sincity87]

undying you are wrong espada are ranked by strength. number 11 arrancar clearly states it. my proof a direct quote from number11 from bleach 209 pg.6 "according to their strength they were given a number one to ten". according to strength it says it clearly. kholdstare is right even though i agree byakuya would win against zaraki, though i think it would be a good fight regardless of the winner

[smach]

Was he patched or unpatched?


EDIT: Dunno if you'll read this before someone deletes it coz of length, but I really don't care anymore.


EDITv2: Also, bigger blade means more damage inflicted, so if patched Zaraki thought a dozen swords were nothing, I doubt he'll give a damn about a million microscopic needles.

[Guy]

God, so much antagonism going on in here....

Alright, just want to make sure about something: Are we using Ichigo as a measuring stick? Because if we're not, then Senkei's and Hakuteiken's powers are nothing more than pure speculations. It's just that when I was still debating in Bleach battles, a lot of people told me to stop using Ichigo as a measuring device.

[Dreadwekrz]

Wow this thread is so full of sh it it's not even funny...


Both characters have the divine status in Bleach and won't loose to anyone but main character. You can not use your imba equations and use other characters as a comparison how strong their abilities actually are, as Kubo alters them based on encounter. They both have chance to be the most powerful or weakest fighters ever, which Kubo clearly demonstrated.

I know who would clearly be the winner but I'll refrain from posting because let's face it, the thread is based on favoritisms and some people's justifications are beyond ridiculous. How the hell did this crap stay open this long anyway?

[Guy]

Said people are gone now, and were only saying so in favoritism of a certainly obvious character. :)

I've seen both sides use such excuse before, but I will refrain from naming who.

This battle is largely just favoritism. It's no longer even a debate. I really do not want to sound like a pseudo-mod or anything, but this thread needs some massive cleaning (either that or it should be closed). Forgive me for pseudo-modding.

[smach]

Favortism: The core of every damn argument/discussion/dispute there ever was.

If you don't have anything to add to the discussion, then do like I did the last couple weeks and just S T F U hush.

If you get the urge to state your reasons as to who would win and why, feel free to share. Otherwise...:busy:

[Sin]

Alright alright lets play nice

I think what me and Khold are saying is the truth of this match-up. They are really on equal terms so its hard to dictate who would win without seing them fight at all. No one would really win and so i say this is a draw

[Guy]

When you put favoritism aside, one of my friends in rl made an excellent point about the Bleach captains: they weren't meant to pwn the crap out of each other. Each captain has his own special skills and weaknesses. The gotei is not made up of random creatures that brawl each other out. Sure, Zaraki may be the type to brawl, but other captains (such as Mayuri) like to use other methods of fighting. Each are strong in their own departments.

The only one that can pwn the gotei captains, really, is Yamamoto (and maybe Aizen)

[smach]

The essence of a battle thread is to put a character's strengths to the test against other characters, regardless of their differences and/or similarities.

Basically what you said is "they're different so they shouldn't be compared to each other" which doesn't really take this anywhere.

But yea, got your point. And seeing how nobody really cares for this no more, I guess it may as well be closed.

[Decado]

/moved to Universal Battle forum

All battles should be created there from now on.