Zaraki Kepachi vs Kuchiki Byakuya[SPOILER]

[SenpaiRetsu]

Ok even i'm starting to think it's overkill now. This will be my last Bya related thread for quite some time now. However i was curious and wanted to ask all this question.

From the last chapter whether your a Zaraki fanboy/girl or not it seems pretty clear Byakuya10x>>>>>>>>>Zaraki in a fight. but not forever maybe. the speculation is what would it take for zaraki to do in this fight with nnoitora to convince you that he's clearly stronger(all around) than Byakuya. i feel like the only way i'd consider those two close the the same level......... Nothing short of Zaraki stopping a released Nnoitora bare-handed. That or if he has some ridiculous hax bankai.

What do you all think he'd have to do to make it convincing that he is even close to Bya?

[Mr.Blunt]

No definite proof regarding both sides of the argument.

And, frankly, I don't care much for the power levels between the two! :]

[Saner]

Byakuya just beat a 7,

and if Zaraki beats a 5, that may set in stone who is stronger of the two Captains. though some can still rightfully argue Byakuya is at least equal to Zaraki unless proven wrong.

also I still facepalm at the people who doubt Zaraki will ever achieve Bankai. people fear it would cause him to lose his uniqueness from the other Captains, but there's only so much reiatsu he can output before he's reached a new limit. Plus he would end up being boring if his sword never speaks to him.

Maybe Zaraki won't Bankai in Las Noches, but he will/should eventually. I don't see any other way he can achieve a new level of power besides either packing on more reiatsu or Bankai.

but Noitora releasing WILL make Zaraki reveal something to even the odds.

[Kabane]

If Zaraki beats Noitora it means little really, Noitora was already severely weakened.

[silverwolf801]

oORRR thAt zaraki has grown stronger

[Klavier Gavin]

Kenpachi has grown stronger definitely, if not how would he hold up to the attacks of a 5th espada? We can't judge by how much though since he's taking on a wounded Noitora as well, which will make Noitora less effective when attacking/defending.

[Motorola]

severely weakened? i highly doubt it. he still has his sinister smile on and he wtfpwned nell in her released form while he was unreleased. that says a lot.

[h3h3h3]

Mere speculation, even if Zaraki beats Nnoitra in released state we haven't seen what Byakuya is fully capable of. But regardless I think Zaraki'd take this alone :Domo

[Jelouch]

severely weakened? i highly doubt it. he still has his sinister smile on and he wtfpwned nell in her released form while he was unreleased. that says a lot.


huh?

[Icestorm]

^ Exactly.. I found that part amusing. Having his blade broken is wtf pwned? lol.

[diamondedge]

You call Nell changing back into her young form when she was about to Kill Nnoitora "wtfpwn"?

Rather interesting, I must say.

Yes, Nnoitora is weakened as of now, but I have no doubts whatsoever that Zaraki won't take him down.

I have something to say. I know a lot of negativism comes from me with this whole Byakuya >< Zaraki, but I'd really want us to stop this, because we will obviously never come to an understanding. It's a waste of posts. I highly doubt Kubo writes Bleach for us to compare who is stronger and who owns the other in a fight. Bleach was NEVER about fighting.

Byakuya's power in latest chapters with which he slaughtered Leroux comes from within himself, not just his skills. He fought for what is important to him, and no matter who stood in front of him, result would have been the same. That's how Bleach works.

I think that instead of trying to point out character weaknesses we should rather focus on what those mean and why are they are there. We'd have much better discussions that way.

PEACE.

[h3h3h3]

^If that happens I can't laugh to retards anymore :(.

Anyways you are right there'll never be an agreement. They are both hate it or love it characters.

/signed_peace_treaty

[silverwolf801]

hm well even though Noitora isn't that hurt from Nell from my point of view of course plus the man still has his released form. I cannot see Kubo letting zaraki lose this fight. i mean we all know that zaraki lost to ichigo but he had to lose to ichigo, ichigo was the hero who had to save rukia so without acknowledging that fight I cannot see zaraki fall ever in bleach because kubo would never put him in a situation that he wouldn't be able to handle for himself.

[diamondedge]

See? Both of our heroes lost for the same reason. :p

Some fights just have to be won.

[silverwolf801]

hm I guess I incorporated byakuya in what I said subconsciously.

[Motorola]

lol, i see. i didn't read the chapters about nell, since i found it very boring. all i know is he is alive and she is back to her child form. i'd assume he won the fight since he's still alive and well.

[Undying]

Byakuya will always own Zaraki.

It's the hair.

Really.

[Kabane]

hm well even though Noitora isn't that hurt from Nell from my point of view of course plus the man still has his released form. I cannot see Kubo letting zaraki lose this fight. i mean we all know that zaraki lost to ichigo but he had to lose to ichigo, ichigo was the hero who had to save rukia so without acknowledging that fight I cannot see zaraki fall ever in bleach because kubo would never put him in a situation that he wouldn't be able to handle for himself.

"Isnt that hurt?" So basically just about to killed = not that hurt.


lol, i see. i didn't read the chapters about nell, since i found it very boring. all i know is he is alive and she is back to her child form. i'd assume he won the fight since he's still alive and well.

lol, if you didnt read the fight then you have no business commenting on it. :)

[Saner]

when Noitora releases, it will probably remove any wounds he previously had.

released Grimmjow appeared like his condition was 100% after he released.

[deathangel20]

Byakuya will always own Zaraki.

It's the hair.

Really.

i think zarakis old hair pwns byakuyas hair.

you cant judge anything from fights, especially in bleach. why?

ichigo beat zaraki when zaraki released eyepatch
zaraki beat tousen without released eyepatch
ichigo beat byakuya with just bankai and a bit of helpe from ogichi
vizard ichigo barely beat released grimmjow
byakuya beat released le roux just by releasing SKY
rukia beat 9th espada with only shikai (well tied)
renji bankai and ishida cant beat a released szayel

that proof enough? the only battle that i can judge for sure is aizen beat hitsuyaga/ renji and ichigo.

i dislike these who owns who threads because quite frankly, it doesnt matter. theyre all on the same side.

[Kabane]

rukia beat 9th espada with only shikai

that one is my favorite.

[Mr.Blunt]

yeah that sounds pretty damn ridiculous when you think about it..
but hey, she's a aizen type.. those with a pretty powerful shikai.. 3 dances and her most powerful one right on his head.

[Guy]

that one is my favorite.

ROFL!!

Anyways, holy crap, what the F is up with all the Zaraki vs. Byakuya topics recently? We can't judge much yet (not objectively, at least). We don't know how Zaraki vs. Noitora fight will turn out (although if it's just Zaraki without bankai, then he should lose). Then again, Byakuya wtfpwned Leroux with very little struggle. Byakuya is far more capable than what he has shown us in the Leroux fight.

[VinScythe]

Mere speculation, even if Zaraki beats Nnoitra in released state we haven't seen what Byakuya is fully capable of. But regardless I think Zaraki'd take this alone :Domo
Yes we have actually. We've seen Zaraki's all as well. Unless he's suddenly gone upgrade!!(SFX: Beyonce - Upgrade U) haha!

Zaraki posses amongst the greatest raw power in Soul Society(Only Aizen, Yamamoto, Komamura are comparable). The Destruction of bringing a building down with one swipe.
Byakuya's petals would run smack up against such a wall.

Even then that doesn't guarantee Kenpachi a victory, the strongest rodent is still preyed by a hawk. Byakuya is a natural weakness of his, he has no way to fight thousands of blades, he couldn't even fight Tousen's. In fact, Tousen had to approach him for Zaraki to grasp a chance at victory.

Byakuya wins, not everybody fights for power like Ichigo(i.e. Ishida)

[el_zafa]

Yes we have actually. We've seen Zaraki's all as well. Unless he's suddenly gone upgrade!!(SFX: Beyonce - Upgrade U) haha!
Zaraki posses amongst the greatest raw power in Soul Society(Only Aizen, Yamamoto, Komamura are comparable). The Destruction of bringing a building down with one swipe.
Byakuya's petals would run smack up against such a wall.
Even then that doesn't guarantee Kenpachi a victory, the strongest rodent is still preyed by a hawk. Byakuya is a natural weakness of his, he has no way to fight thousands of blades, he couldn't even fight Tousen's. In fact, Tousen had to approach him for Zaraki to grasp a chance at victory.
Byakuya wins, not everybody fights for power like Ichigo(i.e. Ishida)



The point that you said that Komamura can match Zaraki is came from what view, I agreed about Aizen & Yamamoto but where the hell Komamura came from? Yamamoto had once said that Ukitake & Shunsui is the strongest captain (not included himself & Aizen). Back to the topic, We know Zaraki is special due to his strength cam match up with pther captain without having bankai on his own but imagine 'if' he has one....

[deathangel20]

Yes we have actually. We've seen Zaraki's all as well. Unless he's suddenly gone upgrade!!(SFX: Beyonce - Upgrade U) haha!
Zaraki posses amongst the greatest raw power in Soul Society(Only Aizen, Yamamoto, Komamura are comparable). The Destruction of bringing a building down with one swipe.
Byakuya's petals would run smack up against such a wall.
Even then that doesn't guarantee Kenpachi a victory, the strongest rodent is still preyed by a hawk. Byakuya is a natural weakness of his, he has no way to fight thousands of blades, he couldn't even fight Tousen's. In fact, Tousen had to approach him for Zaraki to grasp a chance at victory.
Byakuya wins, not everybody fights for power like Ichigo(i.e. Ishida)

All Zaraki has to do is take off his eyepatch and then release all his reiatsu and then Senbonsakura will be blown away.

Zafa, I think he was referring to strength, like how hard they hit.

[SenpaiRetsu]

All Zaraki has to do is take off his eyepatch and then release all his reiatsu and then Senbonsakura will be blown away.
Zafa, I think he was referring to strength, like how hard they hit.

what makes you think Bya would even need to release? How do you imagine that Zaraki would be able to land one hit on Byakuya especially seeing as how the fastest espada couldn't lay one hand on him?

[el_zafa]

All Zaraki has to do is take off his eyepatch and then release all his reiatsu and then Senbonsakura will be blown away.
Zafa, I think he was referring to strength, like how hard they hit.



ooohhh....in that case, I think both of them at same level but with different attitude. Byakuya Senbonzakura is great due to it can attack from every angle but don't forget that Zaraki is a bit vicious and he doesn't seem care about his body has been injured as long as he enjoyed the battle.....

[deathangel20]

Zaraki has unlocked vizard form except the mask: great power, battle lust, insane laugh, no pain and best of all, no time limit.

[Wacer]

It seems the Zaraki and Byakuya fandoms have been really going at it as of late. I guess they just really want to prove who stands on top XD

I dont think Zaraki will be able to blow away Senbonsakura. If that is the case ichigo who is the same or worst then restraining his reiatsu would of done the same thing.

both Zaraki and bya are both captain class so reiatsu burst would do very little in the battle between them

[Guy]

It seems the Zaraki and Byakuya fandoms have been really going at it as of late. I guess they just really want to prove who stands on top XD

Actually, it's an ages old debate. The reason why you're seeing a lot of these arguements recently is because there's been a rise in ANTI-Zaraki and ANTI-Byakuya movement.

I dont think Zaraki will be able to blow away Senbonsakura. If that is the case ichigo who is the same or worst then restraining his reiatsu would of done the same thing.

both Zaraki and bya are both captain class so reiatsu burst would do very little in the battle between them

Thank you for being one of the rare individuals who notice this. Neither one of them is suppose to posess extraordinary reiatsu (unlike Aizen's), therefore, reiatsu should matter little in a battle like Bya vs. zar

[VinScythe]

The point that you said that Komamura can match Zaraki is came from what view, I agreed about Aizen & Yamamoto but where the hell Komamura came from? Yamamoto had once said that Ukitake & Shunsui is the strongest captain (not included himself & Aizen). Back to the topic, We know Zaraki is special due to his strength cam match up with pther captain without having bankai on his own but imagine 'if' he has one....
Ukitake and Shunsui are the strongest regarding experience with gives them a round character(high kidou skill, high combat skill, high shunpo skill), but they aren't particularly the best at any of them. Precisely why even if they outmatch Aizen with better spells and greater training, Aizen still has his higher level of reiatsu (and alot of hax) to increase his abilities so that he'll defeat either of them.

Surely you've noticed Komamura's very high reiatsu levels as well? His shikai release exploded the grounded he stood on just from burning energy. A slash of shikai sent of a wave of reiatsu(similar to Ichigo's) also destroying the path it met against to ultimately MISS ZARAKI. Even Zaraki opened his eyes to the explosion and cracked a smile to called his energy 'impressive.' Komamura has maxed out power(reiatsu in the databook) meaning, like Zaraki, he enforces all that huge energy into his attack and defence. He's not weak like anyone randomly thinks, around mid-tier captain(around Byakuya's level) I'd say so myself.

All Zaraki has to do is take off his eyepatch and then release all his reiatsu and then Senbonsakura will be blown away.
Reiatsu isn't some wind you can just put to use like a leaf blower. Really the force only has an effect on your skin's defence. If you were seeing it as a pushing force, it pushes people down the higher it goes, yet ironically that individual's hair is going up. It's really only there as a power imagery.

Furthermore, even Zaraki doesn't posses nearly enough of it or control of what he already has to subdue captain level to the ground or grant him immunity.
what makes you think Bya would even need to release? How do you imagine that Zaraki would be able to land one hit on Byakuya especially seeing as how the fastest espada couldn't lay one hand on him?
You're confusing shunpo with combat speed. Zaraki may have the poorest of captain shunpo but he damn well has one of the best reaction speeds among captains, due to his relentless combat experience. The current battle is enough to show this to you, Nnoitra was matching the tired bankai Ichigo blow by blow with his reaction. At an instant he even called Ichigo "too slow", Zaraki's swipes have no trouble matching Nnoitra's.

The best Byakuya could make use of his shunpo is to runaway. If he comes near to an attack against Zaraki, Zaraki will match his sword swipe.
Zaraki has unlocked vizard form except the mask: great power, battle lust, insane laugh, no pain and best of all, no time limit.
Well the Vaizards never elaborated on their forbidden methods of obtaining inner hollow souls. We can't tell a thing. But Yamamoto sure hasn't kicked him out for hollow powers just yet.

[deathangel20]

err, i was being sarcastic on the whole vizard thing.

its interesting. how come there isnt any argument about kyoraku and ukitake?

[Nowitzki]

/Moving to Bleach Battles

[Seff vi Britannia]

Zaraki stopped the fith espada's attack one-handed and with no effort.

Byakuya struggled to block the 7th espada's attack.

:)

[Tobi]

^ 5th Espada was injured and a little fatigued. Zaraki was not.

[diamondedge]

Byakuya struggled to block the 7th espada's attack.

:)
Where? :|

[h3h3h3]

Yes we have actually. We've seen Zaraki's all as well. Unless he's suddenly gone upgrade!!
They both obviously has, you should read between the lines. We have not seen what Byakuya is fully capable now neither Zaraki.

[Mikado]

I just think Byakuya still is on top, it's just his attitude. He is a aristocrat and doesn't care, but Kenpachi is a generic villain type. It's just the thing that is in almost all shounen comics. >.> Just saying this so I can reply to one of the posts on the first page, the 10th to be precise.

he still has his sinister smile on and he wtfpwned nell he wtfpwned nell
and he has his sinister smile on

[Jay3205]

Even though Byakuya may be physically weaker, he would probably still beat him since he has other methods of attack besides sheer force. Byakuya apparently knows level 80's spells, which I doubt Zaraki can just shrug off. Zaraki is defenseless against binding kidou, and it would only need to hold him for a split second before Byakuya can launch a fatal attack. A level 4 spell easily could've killed Ichigo if aimed right. A level 84 spell would probably do the same to Zaraki.

[Guy]

Zaraki stopped the fith espada's attack one-handed and with no effort.

Byakuya struggled to block the 7th espada's attack.

:)

Byakuya WTFPWNED Zomari with NO effort, even without an arm and a leg. We still haven't seen what Zaraki is capable of.

[Zanga]

He wtfpwned Zomari cause Senbonzakura is Zomari's greatest weakness. Byakuya wouldve had trouble facing anyone else above the 9th.

Yes even Syael. Not even the great Byakuya can walk away from a fight without half his organs crushed.

[Guy]

He wtfpwned Zomari cause Senbonzakura is Zomari's greatest weakness. Byakuya wouldve had trouble facing anyone else above the 9th.
Yes even Syael. Not even the great Byakuya can walk away from a fight without half his organs crushed.

Not really; his unreleased sword did more damage to Zomari then his SKY did. In addition, you're also assuming Szaeyl can keep up with Byakuya, and Byakuya has shown he can keep up with the greatest sonido user, even on ONE leg.

[diamondedge]

He wtfpwned Zomari cause Senbonzakura is Zomari's greatest weakness. Byakuya wouldve had trouble facing anyone else above the 9th.
Yes even Syael. Not even the great Byakuya can walk away from a fight without half his organs crushed.
In case you haven't noticed, all fights are carefully schemed,so don't give me that crap.

What exactly Nnoitora excels at?

[deathangel20]

Not really; his unreleased sword did more damage to Zomari then his SKY did. In addition, you're also assuming Szaeyl can keep up with Byakuya, and Byakuya has shown he can keep up with the greatest sonido user, even on ONE leg.

byakuya kept up with zomari, because at that point, zomari couldnt move at all since his released state makes him immobile. he just floats there.

noitora excels at backstabbing, taking advantage of others and being perverted. thats pretty good in a dog eat dog world.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Forgive me if i call winning but loosing two limbs in the process a victory only in name.

And the fact Nnoitra was slightly injured means little - he wasn't nearly injured enough to cause a large power drop.

In retrospect, my point was slightly ambigious - Byakuya struggled to stop an attack based on speed, wheras Zaraki effortlessly blocked a brute force attack. Really, the two can't be compared.

[h3h3h3]

Forgive me if i call winning but loosing two limbs in the process a victory only in name.

And the fact Nnoitra was slightly injured means little - he wasn't nearly injured enough to cause a large power drop.

In retrospect, my point was slightly ambigious - Byakuya struggled to stop an attack based on speed, wheras Zaraki effortlessly blocked a brute force attack. Really, the two can't be compared.
While I approve of your post, Byakuya didn't give everything he got (I almost said she LOL)but I don't think it makes any difference.

[diamondedge]

Forgive me if i call winning but loosing two limbs in the process a victory only in name.

And the fact Nnoitra was slightly injured means little - he wasn't nearly injured enough to cause a large power drop.

In retrospect, my point was slightly ambigious - Byakuya struggled to stop an attack based on speed, wheras Zaraki effortlessly blocked a brute force attack. Really, the two can't be compared.

We all know Nnoitora isn't only slightly injured, he was about to get beat. Therefore here comes your own post - http://forums.bleachportal.net/showpost.php?p=2209631&postcount=440

Stand for either one or the other, because your biasness right now terribly lowers the credibility of your arguments. ;)

Struggled to stop the attack - that's same as saying Yourichi struggled to escape Byakuya on the bridge because she used that technique.

I dare say that there isn't a single Bleach reader who would claim that.

[Sekei]

he'll do the same thing he did against Tousen lol XP

[SenpaiRetsu]

@vinsyth
You're confusing shunpo with combat speed. Zaraki may have the poorest of captain shunpo but he damn well has one of the best reaction speeds among captains, due to his relentless combat experience. The current battle is enough to show this to you, Nnoitra was matching the tired bankai Ichigo blow by blow with his reaction. At an instant he even called Ichigo "too slow", Zaraki's swipes have no trouble matching Nnoitra's.

The best Byakuya could make use of his shunpo is to runaway. If he comes near to an attack against Zaraki, Zaraki will match his sword swipe.

no i'm not confusing it at all, i'm talking about both. bankai ichigo can swing his sword fast enough to knock countless blades out of the sky, um how many swings is that per second? Byakuya was going blow for blow with him countering and attacking. Yes, i realize at some point during Senkei Ichigo started slowing down. But there was a time where he was sword dueling with an opponent that could swing his sword maybe thosands of times in a second, which would have to mean Bya can swing his sword just as fast or close to it not to be instantly butchered. Have we seen Zaraki swing his sword that fast? not even close. plus Byakuya would just bind him. do i think the binding would hold for long? probably not about 1 second is all he would need, he wouldn't even need SKY.

@Zanga
He wtfpwned Zomari cause Senbonzakura is Zomari's greatest weakness. Byakuya wouldve had trouble facing anyone else above the 9th.

Yes even Syael. Not even the great Byakuya can walk away from a fight without half his organs crushed.

Zomari didn't really have a weakness. How did he have a weakness? If you call getting hit with countless blades a weakness then i guess many people have the same weakness. That's like saying getting hit with a machine gun is someones weakness.

[Jay3205]

I would not rate Nnoitora's speed as being very high since he could match a tired Ichigo. I don't think it's fair to judge a character's powers based off their performance against someone who just barely won a difficult fight.

Yes even Syael. Not even the great Byakuya can walk away from a fight without half his organs crushed.To be honest though, Zaraki likely can't beat such a cheap tactic unless Syael does not go for the kill. Ironically, Mayuri is probably best suited to fight that ability due to all his body mods.

[Zanga]

Zomari didn't really have a weakness. How did he have a weakness? If you call getting hit with countless blades a weakness then i guess many people have the same weakness. That's like saying getting hit with a machine gun is someones weakness.

Byakuya has somethign that almost no other person has. An arsenal of a billion+.

Most people would've have great difficulty, like Ichigo could probably get hit with his own getsuga Tenshou, or even Chad's arm blasts.

The only two people who have attacking arsenal over 50 shown so far are Byakuya and Ishida(rofl).

[deathangel20]

Zomari didn't really have a weakness. How did he have a weakness? If you call getting hit with countless blades a weakness then i guess many people have the same weakness. That's like saying getting hit with a machine gun is someones weakness.

zomaris weakness is that he can only take control of so many things. so, if someone went one on one with him, say zaraki, zomari would simply take control of them. its not really a weakness, but simply zomari running outta ammo.

[Dexter]

@an7hony: There's an intro section to make intro posts. If your post was any longer I'd have moved it to create a new thread for it in that section. But "Hi guys" in a section or thread like this is off topic and spam. Plz read the rules :)

/post deleted

[ninjabot]

ACTUALLY...Byakuya struggled (struggled is such a strong word...more like easily endured) against SUPREME speed. Zaraki is effortlessly blocking un-released Noitora's un-remarkable love-taps. When I see unreleased Noitora get angry and attempt a fatal blow against Zaraki that's blocked, then Zaraki will have performed a feat. Then, after Noitora releases, if he strikes Zaraki and he blocks again, without losing a limb or worse, THEN we can compare him to Byakuya.

Until such time, I have to believe that after minutes of Zaraki trying to power his way through blast after blast of kidou and wall after wall of senbonzakura, he'll be winded enough to kill off. I'm well aware that Zaraki isn't slow, and that Byakuya's shunpo will only be used for quick retreats or surprise attacks, but that's why Zaraki's supposed superior strength or average speed wouldn't grant him a decisive blow. Just stay away from him and continuously shred him with an unavoidable assault of projectiles until he keels over.

[Seff vi Britannia]

We all know Nnoitora isn't only slightly injured, he was about to get beat. Therefore here comes your own post - http://forums.bleachportal.net/showpost.php?p=2209631&postcount=440

Stand for either one or the other, because your biasness right now terribly lowers the credibility of your arguments. ;)

Struggled to stop the attack - that's same as saying Yourichi struggled to escape Byakuya on the bridge because she used that technique.

I dare say that there isn't a single Bleach reader who would claim that.

He struggled until he used the technique, should i say.

And as the Nnoitra thing, i believe my opinion is entitled to change based upon evidence presented to me. I just didn't bother to go back and edit my posts. Sue me. :face82:

But yes, looking back on my post (as i stated), a battle of speed and a battle of strength can't be compared. :)

[Outlawz]

Not really; his unreleased sword did more damage to Zomari then his SKY did. In addition, you're also assuming Szaeyl can keep up with Byakuya, and Byakuya has shown he can keep up with the greatest sonido user, even on ONE leg.

Yea, because that fight with LeRoux had anything to do with speed.

And also, you don't know how fast Szayel is.
Zaraki stopped the fith espada's attack one-handed and with no effort.

Byakuya struggled to block the 7th espada's attack.



Zarakai also complimented that hit.
Byakuya WTFPWNED Zomari with NO effort, even without an arm and a leg. We still haven't seen what Zaraki is capable of.

Byakuya beat up a retard

Not really saying much.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Also, i don't call releasing bankai and loosing an arm and a leg, AND using a technique he explicitly stated he didn't want to use, "No effort."

And your point about Byakuya keeping up with Leroux one-legged is nulled for a few reasons.

Leroux didn't move after releasing, so Byakuya had no reason to "keep up with him."

Leroux is not the fastest espada.

[VinScythe]

@vinsyth
no i'm not confusing it at all, i'm talking about both. bankai ichigo can swing his sword fast enough to knock countless blades out of the sky, um how many swings is that per second? Byakuya was going blow for blow with him countering and attacking. Yes, i realize at some point during Senkei Ichigo started slowing down. But there was a time where he was sword dueling with an opponent that could swing his sword maybe thosands of times in a second, which would have to mean Bya can swing his sword just as fast or close to it not to be instantly butchered. Have we seen Zaraki swing his sword that fast? not even close. plus Byakuya would just bind him. do i think the binding would hold for long? probably not about 1 second is all he would need, he wouldn't even need SKY.

Bankai Ichigo only fought against the Bankai senkei of Byakuya. Only once Ichigo became tired and encased could he equal Byakuya, normal bankai Ichigo was a speed that took the blade to Bya's neck!
Who was Nnoitra just fighting, a tired bankai Ichigo, whom he even called 'too slow'. Now Kenpachi is at the speed of Nnoitra.

The post of yours which I replied to said:
what makes you think Bya would even need to release? How do you imagine that Zaraki would be able to land one hit on Byakuya especially seeing as how the fastest espada couldn't lay one hand on him?
And now you're saying Byakuya WILL need to release because 100,000 blades is the only speed Kenpachi won't be able to stop?

You see you have a conflicting argument upon yourself, I did point out you had some confusement.

[diamondedge]

1.) When Nnoitora faced Ichigo, he was exhausted from battle with Grimmjow.
Keeping up with speed wih someone barely being able to stand is impressive how?

2.) When Zaraki blocked Nnotora's attack, Nnoitora was also brought to his knees multiple times by Nel. His zanpaktou was cracked to the point where he could not release.
Blocking an attack of defeated Espada saved by the miracle and the plot with broken zanpaktou is impressive how?

And most of all, how does any of this prove anyone's strength? :whatevah: Unless, fighting cripples is proof enough for you.

[VinScythe]

1.) When Nnoitora faced Ichigo, he was exhausted from battle with Grimmjow.
Keeping up with speed wih someone barely being able to stand is impressive how?
Barely able to stand is no way to put it, collapsing after Byakuya was barely able to stand, here he was slashing and hacking back to a playful Nnoitra.
Then there is the fact that this bankai Ichigo was much more improved than the previous, the previous one didn't compare to unreleased Grimmjow.
The new Ichigo wasn't going to suddenly collapse from exhaustion.
Clearly Nnoitra was fighting a tired Ichigo faster than Byakuya's
2.) When Zaraki blocked Nnotora's attack, Nnoitora was also brought to his knees multiple times by Nel. His zanpaktou was cracked to the point where he could not release.
Blocking an attack of defeated Espada saved by the miracle and the plot with broken zanpaktou is impressive how?
Let's not forget how much Kenpachi injures himself and trains just to get a morning workout, he said it to Tousen.

Nnoitra wasn't gasping for breath against Kenpachi, his injuries don't harm him in the slightest bit, and without a release he's quite even to the pirate bastard, patches included. Seems to me that standing up to Nell was Nnoitra's work out. He can truly match Zaraki now.

Or are you insane enough to believe that as Nnoitra intruded away with useless Grimmjow, he'll suddenly die due to a handicap in front of those weak eyes?

And most of all, how does any of this prove anyone's strength? :whatevah: Unless, fighting cripples is proof enough for you.
This only means that Byakuya's shunpo is no way for him to defeat Zaraki.
And if you're merely talking about their strengths, then you lost this argument at page 1.

[diamondedge]

Barely able to stand is no way to put it, collapsing after Byakuya was barely able to stand, here he was slashing and hacking back to a playful Nnoitra.
I question the efficiency. You can slash all the way you want if there is no power in those hits.

Let's not forget how much Kenpachi injures himself and trains just to get a morning workout, he said it to Tousen.
Oh yes, having a rock solid body is VERY important. He is able to take hits because of that. that doesn't make him more powerful or ad to his ability.

Nnoitra wasn't gasping for breath against Kenpachi, his injuries don't harm him in the slightest bit, and without a release he's quite even to the pirate bastard, patches included. Seems to me that standing up to Nell was Nnoitra's work out. He can truly match Zaraki now.
You've said it all. You must have missed the chapters where he was fighting Nell.

Or are you insane enough to believe that as Nnoitra intruded away with useless Grimmjow, he'll suddenly die due to a handicap in front of those weak eyes?
This only means that Byakuya's shunpo is no way for him to defeat Zaraki.

He is is Zaraki's counterpart. I highly doubt the outcome really matters to him, as long as he gets to prove his "strength". :whatevah:

And if you're merely talking about their strengths, then you lost this argument at page 1.
Did I? How/when?

We are arguing about power, I don't give a shit about psychical strength, because it matters little, if anything.

[BrolyLOL]

Zaraki > Byakuya is fairly obvious. Byakuya already has the majority of his abilities revealed...Zaraki still has shikai attacks + bankai he can "get" due to plotkai.

[Killa Cam]

Kenpachi is currently stronger than Byakuya, yes. Why? AIDS weakens the immune system for one and if the first example didn't convince you, I won't bother with another.

[diamondedge]

Post stuff that is on topic. We are interested in facts and valid arguments here, not your failed sense of humor.

@Broly: I told you n00b, Zaraki is constantly in shikai.

Even if he had bankai that doesn't make a difference, he is not a main character to make it useful in 3 days. You know, the whole 10 years training thing.

[Killa Cam]

^ you're a byakuyafan, your opinion is automatically invalid here. go watch reruns of Byakuya vs Renji or Ganju if u wanna see Byakuya overpower anyone.

[BrolyLOL]

Post stuff that is on topic. We are interested in facts and valid arguments here, not your failed sense of humor.

@Broly: I told you n00b, Zaraki is constantly in shikai.

Even if he had bankai that doesn't make a difference, he is not a main character to make it useful in 3 days. You know, the whole 10 years training thing.

I said shikai attacks you "insanely smart byakuya fangirl" http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3817/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif


Byakuya's not a main character by that logic either, why would he deserve a power-up?

@ Cam: ROFLPWN/D

[diamondedge]

I fail to see how you countered any of my posts from before where I was stating arguments. So.
^ you're a byakuyafan, your opinion is automatically invalid here. go watch reruns of Byakuya vs Renji or Ganju if u wanna see Byakuya overpower anyone.
Don't you ever tell me where my opinion is and is not valid.

You're both antis, so... :whatevah:

Zaraki's shikai doesn't have special attacks, because that is out of Zaraki's character.

Byakuya doesn't get any power ups. He owns his bankai, kidou and speed. He always did, so what exactly does make you think he even needs a power up?

[BrolyLOL]

^Kubo can do what he wants, it's his own manga. If Hitsugaya can be rated as stronger than Gin then there's no point in using logic for "who deserves power-ups" and who doesn't. Plus Kenpachi getting a power-up is like some garbage about work ethic and shit, Byakuya is all about privilege and being naturally gifted. For all you know he could give them both power-ups.



So.
Don't you ever tell me where my opinion is and is not valid.
You're both antis, so... :whatevah:

I'm neither anti-semitic nor anti-homosexual, but Kubo loves to create stereotypes.

Zaraki fought a Shikai Ichigo who was using Zangetsu's power, they drew. Bankai Ichigo, who is at comparable strength, defeated Byakuya. Now...if only we could tell what's stronger: shikai ichigo at full power using zangetsu's power or an unmastered bankai ichigo.

[RICKisBOSS]

Wow, Byakuya is grossly underrated in this thread. He's Byakuya-Taicho for Christ's sake...I think we're dealing with one too many Kenpachi fanboys XD LOL!!!

[diamondedge]

I responded to all points of your post. If you are not literate, that is not my problem.

You were right? So, you waltz in here, make a statement and think you are right? No, not really. :)

Since when shikai > bankai? Don't talk nonsense.

And Ichigo faced Byakuya at the state where he beat Zaraki, where he already learned how to work with Zangetsu. He was dragged out of a fight because he would get killed. Why? because at that time, even with that ability of working with his sword, he wasn't strong enough.

Oh, and bankai Ichigo never beat Byakuya. :)

[Undying]

^Kubo can do what he wants, it's his own manga. If Hitsugaya can be rated as stronger than Gin then there's no point in using logic for "who deserves power-ups" and who doesn't.
Hitsugaya isn't rated higher than anyone. I strongly suggest you read the sources you are using here. And yes Kubo can do what he wants. He already did Byakuya > Kenpachi. You not seeing this is not our problem. Or Kubo's.

In America.

Plus Kenpachi getting a power-up is like some garbage about work ethic and shit, Byakuya is all about privilege and being naturally gifted. For all you know he could give them both power-ups.
Byakuya is all about naturally gifted? Proof please. Byakuya is as hard working and battle oriented as Zaraki. Even more so, actually.

Zaraki is nothing more than a loudmouth with a sword.


I'm neither anti-semitic nor anti-homosexual, but Kubo loves to create stereotypes.
You're anti-Byakuya.

Kubo uses stereotypes, but what's your point? This just proves that Byakuya > Zaraki. Because Zarak is the typical berserker and Byakuya is the typical (well, none of them are really, but this requires actually thinking about characters a little) cold bishounen.

Cold Bishounen > berserker.

It's in the stereotypes.

Zaraki fought a Shikai Ichigo who was using Zangetsu's power, they drew. Bankai Ichigo, who is at comparable strength, defeated Byakuya. Now...if only we could tell what's stronger: shikai ichigo at full power using zangetsu's power or an unmastered bankai ichigo.
Ichigo, with Zangetsu's power, had no chance against Byakuya.

You beat yourself.

[BrolyLOL]

^Damn rick, you be smokin dat piff? LOL

Hitsugaya isn't rated higher than anyone. I strongly suggest you read the sources you are using here. And yes Kubo can do what he wants. He already did Byakuya > Kenpachi. You not seeing this is not our problem. Or Kubo's.
In America.
Byakuya is all about naturally gifted? Proof please. Byakuya is as hard working and battle oriented as Zaraki. Even more so, actually.
Zaraki is nothing more than a loudmouth with a sword.
You're anti-Byakuya.
Kubo uses stereotypes, but what's your point? This just proves that Byakuya > Zaraki. Because Zarak is the typical berserker and Byakuya is the typical (well, none of them are really, but this requires actually thinking about characters a little) cold bishounen.
Cold Bishounen > berserker.
It's in the stereotypes.
Ichigo, with Zangetsu's power, had no chance against Byakuya.
You beat yourself.

I'm glad I could piss off another byakugay fan. On the Hits > Gin thing, well you're wrong (even though I wish you weren't) because of that databook that ranks Hitsugaya as stronger than Gin in a few categories.


Bishounens are never cool because they're mangirls. Berserkers > Bishounen cause Broly solos the Bleach verse of course.

[Dexter]

/spam deleted

One-worded posts are a no-no. Stay on topic folks. :)

[diamondedge]

I'm glad I could piss off another byakugay fan. On the Hits > Gin thing, well you're wrong (even though I wish you weren't) because of that databook that ranks Hitsugaya as stronger than Gin in a few categories.

1.) You obviously can't read the databooks.
2.) Databooks rank Byakuya higher than Zaraki. Oh wait, in databooks, EVERYONE is rated higher than Zaraki.

[Seff vi Britannia]

1) Databooks are not canon.

[Taguro]

Look! sure Byakuya has the fancy bankai and all that crap, but zaraki has something that Byakuya doesn't. That fighting instinct. Zaraki is a monster on the battle field. He can take a hit and still continue the fight and love it. He lives for bloody fights. Byakuya is to clean. Thas like saying who would win in a real fight, someone from WWE or someone from UFC. not the same.

[Guy]

Look! sure Byakuya has the fancy bankai and all that crap, but zaraki has something that Byakuya doesn't. That fighting instinct. Zaraki is a monster on the battle field. He can take a hit and still continue the fight and love it. He lives for bloody fights. Byakuya is to clean. Thas like saying who would win in a real fight, someone from WWE or someone from UFC. not the same.

That's the ONLY thing Zaraki has that Byakuya lacks. I mean, sure Zaraki may be inferior in kidou, speed, and zanpakutou powers, but fighting instincts alone can make him so much more uber :rolleye09

1) Databooks are not canon.

I thought Kubo wrote them. W/e, don't take the databooks too literally. Other than telling us people's potentials, that's all there is to it.

[Wacer]

That's the ONLY thing Zaraki has that Byakuya lacks. I mean, sure Zaraki may be inferior in kidou, speed, and zanpakutou powers, but fighting instincts alone can make him so much more uber :rolleye09


Guy said it all right their, we all know Zaraki is uber strong and what not but that is all he has. The only fight that Zaraki could win is a in your face close combat match. Byakuya has good kidouskills(using up yo 80 ones) so he can blast him from afar, SKY lets him fight from mid distance and cut up Zaraki to mid range. Even if he can somehow get close to Byakuya having his superior speed and shunpo means he can just play at a distance that is good for him.

By no means am i calling Zaraki weak it is just that his skills are to narrow to really give him any options in a fight. He can only do one thing and no captain is just slug it out with him

[h3h3h3]

Lvl 90+ Kidou can hurt Zaraki, anything else he shrugs off.

Speed? I bet he is at least as fast as Byakuya when needed.

Attack Power? Zaraki's all raw power

Shikai Harmonized? Basically double power-up Harmonizing and learning the name. Overkill.

Really Byakuya has slim chance to non.

/Fanboy_off

[Lust]

Speed? I bet he is at least as fast as Byakuya when needed.
since when he is as fast as or faster than byakuya :/
Lvl 90+ Kidou can hurt Zaraki, anything else he shrugs off.
oh rly? then why he cant shrug off ichigo's attack :/
Really Byakuya has slim chance to non.
:cm: srsly?

[DarkSlayer]

Lvl 90+ Kidou can hurt Zaraki, anything else he shrugs off.
Speed? I bet he is at least as fast as Byakuya when needed.
Attack Power? Zaraki's all raw power
Shikai Harmonized? Basically double power-up Harmonizing and learning the name. Overkill.
Really Byakuya has slim chance to non.
/Fanboy_off

"Fast as Byakuya..."? LOL. Byakuya has mastered Shunpo. Zaraki can't use Shunpo, yet.

Shikai Harmonized? Okay? And? He'll glow a little brighter, just in time for the holidays. Yeah - he'll probably move a little faster, hit a little harder, and he might discover some actual fighting techniques other than swinging his sword, but Byakuya still has him beat.

And I'm not saying this because I'm a Byakuya fanboy.

[Jelouch]

Lvl 90+ Kidou can hurt Zaraki, anything else he shrugs off.
Speed? I bet he is at least as fast as Byakuya when needed.
Attack Power? Zaraki's all raw power
Shikai Harmonized? Basically double power-up Harmonizing and learning the name. Overkill.
Really Byakuya has slim chance to non.
/Fanboy_off

Ill take that statement , as an indication you are joking. I really hope you are...

Anyway , I'm typing this in case you arent joking.
1)Kidou: Kidou lower than 90 cant hurt Zaraki? Where did you actually
base this? As far As I am concerned , Aizens kidou 90-sth one-shotted a Captain. It is common sense , that Byakuyas 80-sth rank Kidou , would be highly damaging..
2)Speed: Byakuya has mastered Flash Stepping , knows some of Yoruichi's techniques ( Goddess Of Flash ). His speed was close , if not greater than Zomari's a rather fast opponent. Even when compared to Ichigo , he cant be considered slow. He is way too fast for Zaraki.
3)Attack Power: Zaraki's only attack , that we know of for the time being , is slashing like a lunatic his sword. EVEN , if his sword is more damaging than Byakuyas unreleased blade , its destructive power cannot be compared to Byakuyas Bankai , if not Shikai...
4)I didnt get the last part of your post.. Something about Shikai harmonizing... I think you are meaning that Zaraki learns his Zanpakuto's name , and works as one with it... or something...

[Habanero]

Zaraki can't use Shunpo, yet.

I wonder why people keep on stating this as a fact...? As far as I can see, it's fairly obvious he is using shun'po on a few occasions during SS arc.

It hasn't been clearly stated by anyone though, so those clinging on to semantics can keep on debating about I guess... :whatevah:

Just don't say he can't use shun'po as a fact, since it is not. :rolleye09

[DarkSlayer]

I wonder why people keep on stating this as a fact...? As far as I can see, it's fairly obvious he is using shun'po on a few occasions during SS arc.
It hasn't been clearly stated by anyone though, so those clinging on to semantics can keep on debating about I guess... :whatevah:
Just don't say he can't use shun'po as a fact, since it is not. :rolleye09

Fair enough. I do remember the episode when he fought Ichigo, and he did move pretty quick, so I'll say that he simply hasn't mastered shunpo yet.

[Wacer]

agree Zaraki does know how to use shun'po but his is nowhere as fast as bya's shun'po who can be compared to Yoruichi herself the Goddess Of Flash. So he would still have that advantage over Zaraki their

Kidou: If bankai ichigo get a hole through his shoulder with a half spell of white lighting Zaraki is not going to be able to shrug off it ether

[Zanga]

Yep Byakuya is as fast as Yourichi who hasn't been doing anything for the past 100 years and carried Ichigo's body...


Holy shit!

[Wacer]

And that effects the argument how? Yoruichi still holds the title of fastest shun'po in all of SS and no Byakuya is not as fast as her but still is not that far behind, which shows that his shun'po skills are high up on the list.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Tbh, speed really dosen't help Byakuya that much against Zaraki.

Ichigo reflexes = fast enough to stop Senka.
Zaraki reflexes (dodging on touch) > Ichigo reflexes.

Senbonzakura obviously is not affected by Byakuya's speed (which does not increase.)

Further, Getsuga Tenshou is able to blow apart senbonsakura (and i would image KGT or even current Shikai ichigo could blast apart Kageyoshi) - i imagine Zaraki's reiatsu could do the same. (After all, GT is a compressed blast of Reiatsu.)

[Guy]

Tbh, speed really dosen't help Byakuya that much against Zaraki.

Ichigo reflexes = fast enough to stop Senka.
Zaraki reflexes (dodging on touch) > Ichigo reflexes.

Senbonzakura obviously is not affected by Byakuya's speed (which does not increase.)

Further, Getsuga Tenshou is able to blow apart senbonsakura (and i would image KGT or even current Shikai ichigo could blast apart Kageyoshi) - i imagine Zaraki's reiatsu could do the same. (After all, GT is a compressed blast of Reiatsu.)

Looks like you admit speed is an advantage. I ask you, if Byakuya is so much faster, then how can Zaraki even lay a finger on him?

In addition, SKY is obviously far more powerful than how you put it. It basically disabled Leroux's attacks (by piercing out all his eyes). And where's your proof that Zaraki's reiatsu can blow away SKY? If SKY can be blown away by Zaraki's reiatsu (which isn't even that impressive, compared to other captain's reiatsu), then it's not really a bankai, now is it?

In addition, Zaraki has no defense against Senkei or Hakuteiken.

[h3h3h3]

Ill take that statement , as an indication you are joking. I really hope you are...
Anyway , I'm typing this in case you arent joking.
1)Kidou: Kidou lower than 90 cant hurt Zaraki? Where did you actually
base this? As far As I am concerned , Aizens kidou 90-sth one-shotted a Captain. It is common sense , that Byakuyas 80-sth rank Kidou , would be highly damaging.. It would do jack to him. He would laugh it off, really he would.

2)Speed: Byakuya has mastered Flash Stepping , knows some of Yoruichi's techniques ( Goddess Of Flash ). His speed was close , if not greater than Zomari's a rather fast opponent. Even when compared to Ichigo , he cant be considered slow. He is way too fast for Zaraki.

No there's no proof Byakuya is faster than Kenpachi.

3)Attack Power: Zaraki's only attack , that we know of for the time being , is slashing like a lunatic his sword. EVEN , if his sword is more damaging than Byakuyas unreleased blade , its destructive power cannot be compared to Byakuyas Bankai , if not Shikai...

Shikai that didn't even kill Ganju? Bankai that Didn't kill Zomari or Renji, please.

4)I didnt get the last part of your post.. Something about Shikai harmonizing... I think you are meaning that Zaraki learns his Zanpakuto's name , and works as one with it... or something...
He is not working with his Zanpaktou: Disharmonizing. If he learns his name he'll get 2 powerups instead of one, Harmonizing and the name. It is an OVERKILL.

[diamondedge]

It would do jack to him. He would laugh it off, really he would.
No there's no proof Byakuya is faster than Kenpachi.
Where is the proof Zaraki is stronger than Byakuya then?

It's COMMON SENSE. Byakuya is speed specialist. Zaraki is _____ specialist?

Shikai that didn't even kill Ganju? Bankai that Didn't kill Zomari or Renji, please.

Zaraki didn't even render Tousen unconscious when he slashed him at point blank range with even holding him in place. Even more, Tousen was still in condition to espace right after. :)

Read the manga, Zomari is DEAD. Killed by unreleased Byakuya. ^^

He is not working with his Zanpaktou: Disharmonizing. If he learns his name he'll get 2 powerups instead of one, Harmonizing and the name. It is an OVERKILL.
Wrong.
He isn't nearly as talented as Ichigo, so 10 year rule to make it useful applies to him if he actually gets bankai.
Tbh, speed really dosen't help Byakuya that much against Zaraki.

Unreleased Byakuya with the speed of shunpo (with one leg) was able to penetrate Espada's skin. :)

Right.
Unless you got proof Zaraki is a tough as that, then I can safely claim Bykauya can take him down unreleased. :whatevah:

Further, Getsuga Tenshou is able to blow apart senbonsakura (and i would image KGT or even current Shikai ichigo could blast apart Kageyoshi) - i imagine Zaraki's reiatsu could do the same. (After all, GT is a compressed blast of Reiatsu.)
Senbonzakura is able to effortlessly block Ichigo's attack with Getsuga Tenshou, the same attack that leveled Kenpachi with the ground.

BTW Byakuya's reiatsu is same if not GREATER that Zaraki's reiatsu, so that part of argument is invalid. ^^
Lvl 90+ Kidou can hurt Zaraki, anything else he shrugs off.

Your wishful thinking. Proof or nothing.

Speed? I bet he is at least as fast as Byakuya when needed.
No he is not and everyone knows it.

I bet Byakuya can be as strong as zaraki when needed.

Attack Power? Zaraki's all raw power
He can have all the power in the world if he is too slow to land a clear blow.
Since he isn't really bright and takes some time to figure stuff out, Byakuya could have simply used Yourichi's technique with the afterimage, gg.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Looks like you admit speed is an advantage.

If a person moving at the speed of light fights someone who is stationary, clearly, the person moving at the speed of light will never be hit. So yes, i suppose i do admit speed is an advantage. Before i continue though, i'd just like to make out the difference in speed between Zaraki and Byakuya is not as high at that. Secondly, wether the person is moving at the speed of light or not, if the person being attacked has great enough reflexes, he/she could dodge the attack. Zaraki showed this Tousen. Of course, his reflexes aren't fast enough to stop attacks at the speed of light. Although we've established Byakuya can't move that fast. So yes, speed is an advantage, but as with everything, something will always be able to counter it.

I ask you, if Byakuya is so much faster, then how can Zaraki even lay a finger on him?

As i said above, he is not "so much faster." Byakuya has around about (perhaps a little greater) speed than SS arc Shikai Ichigo. Zaraki was also faster than SS Ichigo before he recieved a buff. So we can conclude Byakuya IS faster than Zaraki, but there's something you must consider. Unable to see/hear/feel the strike coming, Zaraki was able to dodge Tousen's attack in the time period it took from the blade to *touch* his skin to Tousen completing the strike. Oh, and, Byakuya can't knock out all of Zaraki's senses. So onto SKY?

In addition, SKY is obviously far more powerful than how you put it. It basically disabled Leroux's attacks (by piercing out all his eyes).

I'm not questioning SKY's power- it's a bankai, of course it's powerful. But we have been shown it can be blown apart using reiatsu (at least normal senbonsakura has, as far as i can remember, and SKY is simply "a bigger" senbonsakura (Yes, it has abilities and such, talking about the base form. :)) Therefore, it follows that with a large enough blast of reiatsu, SKY can be blown apart. Zaraki leaks with reiatsu.


And where's your proof that Zaraki's reiatsu can blow away SKY? If SKY can be blown away by Zaraki's reiatsu (which isn't even that impressive, compared to other captain's reiatsu)

As i said above. And you're underrating Zaraki. He is made out to be a combat monster with overflowing reiatsu - exactly what he is. He can certainly chuck out more reiatsu than a getsuga tenshou.

In addition, Zaraki has no defense against Senkei or Hakuteiken.

Sorry, Byakuya's speed dosen't increase during bankai? No, then read up near the top of this post.


:headbang

And @ Dia, You call bankai unreleased!?

Holy fux, we must have been going DBZ here. Is "Bankai2" the base level for releasing?

And erm, yeah, Byakuya's bankai failed to kill Renji. (a VC)
Zaraki's slash failed to kill Tousen (a captain.)

Bankai has more power than Slash.

And Renji seemed to get up several times before finally getting KOd.

[SenpaiRetsu]

It would do jack to him. He would laugh it off, really he would.
No there's no proof Byakuya is faster than Kenpachi.
Shikai that didn't even kill Ganju? Bankai that Didn't kill Zomari or Renji, please.
He is not working with his Zanpaktou: Disharmonizing. If he learns his name he'll get 2 powerups instead of one, Harmonizing and the name. It is an OVERKILL.
How isn't Byakuya several times faster. Let's see what were renji and Ichigo excited about? let me see what they said...... "i can see you now. I can follow your movements."
That's right if you can even see Byakuya moving in Shunpo you've accomplished something. How many people have said that about Zaraki? Clearly KT is telling through other characters that Byakuya is uber-fast.
Bankai didn't kill Zomari or Renji? Let's see your right he killed zomari UNRELEASED. and Renji, are you truly trying to say Sky didn't have enough power to kill Renji? Byakuya chose to leave him there. If he would have dropped down SKY on him again there would have been nothing left but blood.
Like diamond said Zaraki is not Ichigo, a brand new bankai would not work on Byakuya the same way Renji's powerful but ultra-nub bankai didn't work. I'm sure Zaraki's shikai ability would/will be powerful but it'd never work on Byakuya.
Ichigo's riatsu is stronger than Byakuya's and Zaraki's but a puny white lighting spell without an incantation went right through Ichigo. your trying to tell me a level 80sthg spell isn't gonna do jack? come on, what fantasy world are you living in?

@Xseff
You can't be serious your comparing a slash to a bankai and saying they're not equal? i'm sorry but a slash at point blank is a slash at point black. whether i hit u with a bazooka or i cut you with a sword at point blank you should die. If i can't kill you when i'm holding you and slash you at point blank i must be pretty weak and just suck at life. Obviously his attack power isn't that strong if he can't kill a defensless and immobile target.

[diamondedge]

:headbang

And @ Dia, You call bankai unreleased!?
His bankai attack was blocked with that shell protection Zomari made. :) Unreleased Byakuya defeated released Zomari at the end. :)
I would normally agree with you, but I'm just trying to piss you off, which is precisely what you are doing. :p

And erm, yeah, Byakuya's bankai failed to kill Renji. (a VC)
Zaraki's slash failed to kill Tousen (a captain.)

My point was that with all raw power slashing that Zaraki has got, he didn't do much damage. He also couldn't have gotten clearer shot at someone than he did.

Byakuya has bankai plus series of other skills, and he can use skills that are considered weaker to an extent they become more useful than his actual strongest abilities. (Vs Zomari)

Zaraki can't do that, because he only knows sword fighting, that makes him limited. :)


Bankai has more power than Slash.
Splendid, then Byakuya's bankai is more powerful than Zaraki's attacks. Zaraki's strongest attack < Byakuya's strongest attack, so even if they clashed (which is supposed to be Zaraki's specialty), Byakuya would win? Seems like you confirmed it.

And Renji seemed to get up several times before finally getting KOd.
"Next time I shall not hold back." :)

[Seff vi Britannia]

His bankai attack was blocked with that shell protection Zomari made. :) Unreleased Byakuya defeated released Zomari at the end. :)
I would normally agree with you, but I'm just trying to piss you off, which is precisely what you are doing. :p

Oh. =\ lol... /me is not actually trying to piss anybody off today.

Byakuya has bankai plus series of other skills, and he can use skills that are considered weaker to an extent they become more useful than his actual strongest abilities. (Vs Zomari)

meh, mention something of note?

Zaraki can't do that, because he only knows sword fighting, that makes him limited. :)

Ok, Zaraki's only skill is swordfighting, and he's fighting a kid who is skilled at, er, Halo3 and Gears of War. Kid has more skills, who's gunna win in a fight. :P


Splendid, then Byakuya's bankai is more powerful than Zaraki's attacks. Zaraki's strongest attack < Byakuya's strongest attack, so even if they clashed (which is supposed to be Zaraki's specialty), Byakuya would win? Seems like you confirmed it.

Sadly no, because the strength of an attack means nothing if it dosen't connect.

"Next time I shall not hold back." :)


Point taken.



@ Nisama, yeah, if you shot me with a bazooka at PBR, it'd be an instant kill, you'd blow apart my freakin' body. If you slashed me with a sword, a. The effectiveness of the cut depends on your own skill with a sword, b. i can use my reflexes/blocking to dodge/negate the attack, c. unless you sliced me through the head, it most probably would not be an instant kill. I find it ironic you're trying to state through omission that Zaraki's sword skills are stronger than Byakuya's bankai - even i wouldn't aruge that.

[Jelouch]

Diamondedge > all. gg nubs .

Now seriously , Dia made a point... Read the above posts carefully....

[h3h3h3]

Where is the proof Zaraki is stronger than Byakuya then?

It's COMMON SENSE. Byakuya is speed specialist. Zaraki is _____ specialist?

No where has it been stated he's any kind of specialist? Atleast we know Zaraki leads the battle based Division.

Zaraki didn't even render Tousen unconscious when he slashed him at point blank range with even holding him in place. Even more, Tousen was still in condition to espace right after. :)
Same applies to Renji(LOL) and Zomari. Basically SKY is useless unless if you're VC lvl shit


Read the manga, Zomari is DEAD. Killed by unreleased Byakuya. ^^

Pumpkin Zomari yes. I seriously've been wondering why didn't he do it right after. Quite idiotic if you ask me.

Wrong.
He isn't nearly as talented as Ichigo, so 10 year rule to make it useful applies to him if he actually gets bankai.

No, he has had the shikai for decades, he just needs to know the name. I am not talking about bankai since he obviously doesn't need one. He's a captain with shikai ownin captains with Bankai. Prove Kubo wrong, oh you can't.

With harmonizing and learning the name it would be overkill to the max.


Unreleased Byakuya with the speed of shunpo (with one leg) was able to penetrate Espada's skin. :)
WOW, Cutting Zomari's skin!!!!!11!!!! He's an adjuchas. Zaraki could easily destroy him.


Senbonzakura is able to effortlessly block Ichigo's attack with Getsuga Tenshou, the same attack that leveled Kenpachi with the ground.

Am I missing something? Where did Ichigo use GT to Zaraki lol, do we watch the same manga?


BTW Byakuya's reiatsu is same if not GREATER that Zaraki's reiatsu, so that part of argument is invalid. ^^

Seriously that's like saying Hitsugaya is as fast as Bankai Ichigo, please.

Your wishful thinking. Proof or nothing.

Prove me wrong or ''nothing''.

No he is not and everyone knows it.

I bet Byakuya can be as strong as zaraki when needed.

We've seen what he's capable of and certainly not that. :whatevah:


He can have all the power in the world if he is too slow to land a clear blow.
Since he isn't really bright and takes some time to figure stuff out, Byakuya could have simply used Yourichi's technique with the afterimage, gg.
He can dodge Tousen who owned Grimmjow without any senses except feeling, oh please. Even if Byakuya is faster than Zaraki which I doubt. Zaraki can see everything he brings to him.

Edit: You guys really thought I meant Bankai? Really all he needs is an disharmonized shikai.

[Lust]

Am I missing something? Where did Ichigo use GT to Zaraki lol, do we watch the same manga?
think b4 you type
to avoid ridiculous counter from you plz read the zangetsu section in this link tq :)
READ ZANGETSU SECTION (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichigo_Kurosaki)
He can dodge Tousen who owned Grimmjow without any senses except feeling, oh please. Even if Byakuya is faster than Zaraki which I doubt. Zaraki can see everything he brings to him.
oh plz,that was s0 long time ago,who the heck know what did aizen give to tousen...perhaps power up etc?? that why his power increase rapidly and able to own grimmy:)
Seriously that's like saying Hitsugaya is as fast as Bankai Ichigo, please.
she right you know,let see...shikai ichigo can cut throught kenpachi and this conclude that shikai ichigo has higher reitsu than zaraki,most probably due to his uber hackness
then if we use that kenpachi reitsu armor theory,ichigo CANT slash byakuya if his reitsu is not greater or equal to him :cm:
thus proving like what dia said...
is either same or greater
No, he has had the shikai for decades, he just needs to know the name. I am not talking about bankai since he obviously doesn't need one. He's a captain with shikai ownin captains with Bankai. Prove Kubo wrong, oh you can't.

With harmonizing and learning the name it would be overkill to the max.
is the same,without knowing its name is same like doesnt have one
Same applies to Renji(LOL) and Zomari. Basically SKY is useless unless if you're VC lvl shit
oh rly? then let see,kenpachi is a captain lvl but lose to ichigo in shikai mode,but ichigo need bankai in order to draw/defeat byakuya
so your opinion over here is not true,we still doesnt know sky maximum effect yet

[diamondedge]

No where has it been stated he's any kind of specialist?
COMMON SENSE. He was under direct supervision of the Goddess of Flash, he outran and defeated his Espada counterpart who has used the fastest speed we've seen from Espada up to date (and YES, NO Espada so far has moves so fast to leave killable afterimages in their place), he got praised for his speed from very beginning of the manga. Seriously, how hard is to figure out what's he excels at?

If Zaraki is in a division who thinks all other shinigami skills are worth nothing therefore they can proclaim themselves as strongest that's not my problem, nor does it prove anything just because they think they're tough. Good stuff speaks for itself.

Byakuya is the most famous captain in Gotei 13. Does that make him the best? If you got some kind of reputation that means very little, if anything unless you got something to show.

Same applies to Renji(LOL) and Zomari. Basically SKY is useless unless if you're VC lvl shit
Do read what I write. I explained about this 2 posts ago.

Due to Byakuya's versatility he can make ordinary attacks MORE effective than his strongest ones, saving time and energy. Zaraki can't do that because he only has swordsmanship.

No, he has had the shikai for decades, he just needs to know the name. I am not talking about bankai since he obviously doesn't need one. He's a captain with shikai ownin captains with Bankai. Prove Kubo wrong, oh you can't.
I never denied the second part and I myself defend that, but shikai is STILL shikai.

If you love Zaraki that much you'd surely know that any kind of fancy extra stuff he could fight with is out of his character. As Seff said, Zaraki is all about raw strength. He CAN NOT change his fight style as of now, so all your speeches about the name and massive upgrades are invalid right now, because this is what you are hoping he will get, not what he has now.

WOW, Cutting Zomari's skin!!!!!11!!!! He's an adjuchas. Zaraki could easily destroy him.
Zaraki could, Zaraki would, without any kind of proof or references.
(If I'm not mistaken, Zaraki is fighting adjuchas too)

Am I missing something? Where did Ichigo use GT to Zaraki lol, do we watch the same manga?
Last clash. Enlighten yourself.
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/6026/mangarainbleachch11311hm9.png
"The one thing that Zagnetsu taught me, Getsuga Tenshou." He was working with Zangetsu at the time he beat Zaraki. That's the borrowing of power.
Unless of course, you are implying that Ichigo didn't even have to use GT to defeat Zaraki and he did it with bare shikai without any extra ability?

Shikai that couldn't even defeat Privaron Espada in HM?

Fine by me! ^^

Seriously that's like saying Hitsugaya is as fast as Bankai Ichigo, please.
Don't flatter yourself, especially when you're on the loosing end. :)
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6963/mangarainbleachch11610sm3.png
Prove Kubo wrong? Oh wait, you can't. ^^

Prove me wrong or ''nothing''.
You can't do something until you prove you can, not vice versa.

Byakuya >>> Zaraki.

PROVE me wrong or nothing?

He can dodge Tousen who owned Grimmjow without any senses except feeling, oh please.
You walk down the road and I sit on a tree and throw a rock at you. You are knocked down. Does that make me stronger than you? :whatevah:
(the only thing that was impressive at that time was the 54 kidou without a chant.)

Even if Byakuya is faster than Zaraki which I doubt. Zaraki can see everything he brings to him.
Shall we make a poll and see how many people actually think Zaraki is even remotely close to Byakuya in speed? I really don't get why do you stubbornly say this without even bringing any kind of proof to the table.

Edit: You guys really thought I meant Bankai? Really all he needs is an disharmonized shikai.
Fanboyism much? :)

[SenpaiRetsu]

diamondedge arguement>>>>>>>h3h3h3 argument

can we now finally just agree that at this moment Byakuya>>> Zaraki. I'm not saying it's forever, i think Zaraki has potential. i in fact like him. That's why i created the thread. It is possible due to some serious plotkai that he will beat Nnoitora. And what will he do to give some actual PROOF that Zaraki is a more dangerous captain than Byakuya.

I'm just being objective here. I'm not gonna say that Byakuya is the strongest captain, nor that he has the potential to be. The databook says it all the doesn't have a whole lot of room to grow. Zaraki does.

[Habanero]

Some few odd arguments here tbh...

Ichigo was not using GT against Zaraki no matter how you look at it, and against Byakuya... well it blew senbonzakura apart and made Bya's arm bleed. :winking56

And Byakuya having more reiatsu than Zaraki is also pretty much baseless. If I had to, I'd guess it's the other way around.

Anyway, I don't think Zaraki would be able to beat Byakuya in an all out fight. Byakuya is a lot more versatile as a fighter, while Zaraki is pretty much a one-trick wonder.

[diamondedge]

@Hanabero: I'd like to say he did. But as I said, you can say he didn't, but that only makes Zaraki weaker. :)

That was Kuroi Getsuga Tenshou, this is Ogichi's move. Ordinary GT was easily blocked by Bya. :)

( as for the arguments, I know it's weird, but I'm ognoring them xD It would look like I can't counter xD)

[Tyekanik]

I also think Byakuya's got it, until Zaraki figures some more things out, then Byakuya would be in for a tough time. As is Byakuya would have no excuse for ever getting hit by Zaraki.

I also think Zaraki would have more Reiatsu than Byakuya, think I only saw Ganju page as a reason to point towards Byakuya, and I could never take his word for anything power related. A crappy sensor will only yield crappy results. Not to mention its always bigger around the corner, then you get back to the other guy and its still an increase. Yay shounen.

Don't see why Zaraki needs plotkai to kill noitara, I think its reasonable long as people keep things in clear view.

[Habanero]

That was Kuroi Getsuga Tenshou, this is Ogichi's move. Ordinary GT was easily blocked by Bya. :)

Chapter 160, few last pages. Senbonzakura, as well as Bya's arm, getting owned by regular GT :winking56

[h3h3h3]

COMMON SENSE. He was under direct supervision of the Goddess of Flash, he outran and defeated his Espada counterpart who has used the fastest speed we've seen from Espada up to date (and YES, NO Espada so far has moves so fast to leave killable afterimages in their place), he got praised for his speed from very beginning of the manga. Seriously, how hard is to figure out what's he excels at?
Assumptions, assumptions.


If Zaraki is in a division who thinks all other shinigami skills are worth nothing therefore they can proclaim themselves as strongest that's not my problem, nor does it prove anything just because they think they're tough. Good stuff speaks for itself.
They are stated as battle oriented Division stop the BS :face82: . The 'speed specialist' is only made by fandom.


Byakuya is the most famous captain in Gotei 13. Does that make him the best? If you got some kind of reputation that means very little, if anything unless you got something to show.

Famous, ok.

Do read what I write. I explained about this 2 posts ago.

Due to Byakuya's versatility he can make ordinary attacks MORE effective than his strongest ones, saving time and energy. Zaraki can't do that because he only has swordsmanship.

Even though Byakuya is an verstatile fighter, his skills are simply not enough for a man like Zaraki(xD).

I never denied the second part and I myself defend that, but shikai is STILL shikai.

If you love Zaraki that much you'd surely know that any kind of fancy extra stuff he could fight with is out of his character. As Seff said, Zaraki is all about raw strength. He CAN NOT change his fight style as of now, so all your speeches about the name and massive upgrades are invalid right now, because this is what you are hoping he will get, not what he has now.

Aizen's, Yamamoto's, Ukitake's and Shunsui's shikai > Others bankai. And it depends on shikai.

.
(If I'm not mistaken, Zaraki is fighting adjuchas too)
I think so too, but Zomari was utter shit.


Don't flatter yourself, especially when you're on the loosing end. :)
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6963/mangarainbleachch11610sm3.png
Prove Kubo wrong? Oh wait, you can't. ^^
Please, Ganju felt only his patch reiatsu from distance.



Shall we make a poll and see how many people actually think Zaraki is even remotely close to Byakuya in speed? I really don't get why do you stubbornly say this without even bringing any kind of proof to the table.

Fanboyism much? :)
Go ahead. Making polls canon? Cool, didn't know that.

Atm this 'debate' is pointless till we see what Zaraki is really capable of. :babies:

[Wren]

Atm this 'debate' is pointless till we see what Zaraki is really capable of. :babies:

ALthough we've already seen what hes mostly capable of due to the fact he cant use Kidoh or any shikai abilities all he has is his insticts, strength and bloodlust.

[Tyekanik]

ALthough we've already seen what hes mostly capable of due to the fact he cant use Kidoh or any shikai abilities all he has is his insticts, strength and bloodlust.

I would agree with you outright had he not had his "I can be stronger!" rant after ichigo's fight. He should be actively searching for ways to get stronger, as he knows he can clearly be beat. If he's pretty much maxed on pure strength and reiatsu, that leaves abilities, kidou and using strategy. At least he didn't just let Noitara hit him. Little bit of improvement so far :p

I really don't know how I'd feel seeing Kenpachi say "Hadou #4, Byakurai!" though...would be so...wrong.

Still, he's gotta be after some kind of technique, that or he really is hopeless. I am interested to see what happens in the Noitara fight, I'd like his character not get stale.

[Wren]

I would agree with you outright had he not had his "I can be stronger!" rant after ichigo's fight. He should be actively searching for ways to get stronger, as he knows he can clearly be beat. If he's pretty much maxed on pure strength and reiatsu, that leaves abilities, kidou and using strategy. At least he didn't just let Noitara hit him. Little bit of improvement so far :p
I really don't know how I'd feel seeing Kenpachi say "Hadou #4, Byakurai!" though...would be so...wrong.
Still, he's gotta be after some kind of technique, that or he really is hopeless. I am interested to see what happens in the Noitara fight, I'd like his character not get stale.

True he said he wanted to get stronger but untill we see him show something new we can assume we've seen all that he has to offer. I'm hoping that I'm proven wrong in the comming chapters but he just seems like the type of character that doesnt rely on special flashy moves just brute strength and willpower.

[Seff vi Britannia]

COMMON SENSE. He was under direct supervision of the Goddess of Flash, he outran and defeated his Espada counterpart who has used the fastest speed we've seen from Espada up to date (and YES, NO Espada so far has moves so fast to leave killable afterimages in their place),

However, Ulquiorra moves faster than Bankai Ichigo, who produces more afterimages than Zomari. :)



If you love Zaraki that much you'd surely know that any kind of fancy extra stuff he could fight with is out of his character. As Seff said, Zaraki is all about raw strength. He CAN NOT change his fight style as of now, so all your speeches about the name and massive upgrades are invalid right now, because this is what you are hoping he will get, not what he has now.

:D



And you know, i just realized this argument wasn't even at any of my points, and therefore stopped typing. =\

But yes, Byakuya movement speed > Zaraki movement speed. That's slightly obvious. =\


Anyway, Zaraki would be boring if he had kidou or bankai. There's just something appealing about an insane juggernaught who likes to be cut. (Also, he did the Sparta kick on Tousen. I don't remember Byakuya ever having done any mimes. :D)

[SenpaiRetsu]

And you know, i just realized this argument wasn't even at any of my points, and therefore stopped typing. =\

But yes, Byakuya movement speed > Zaraki movement speed. That's slightly obvious. =\


Anyway, Zaraki would be boring if he had kidou or bankai. There's just something appealing about an insane juggernaught who likes to be cut. (Also, he did the Sparta kick on Tousen. I don't remember Byakuya ever having done any mimes. :D)


Yea that's because Byakuya is a pretty body that doesn't want to get dirty. Zaraki definitely is a kick as character. I'm hoping he pulls some crazy stuff on Nnoitora, i think he will. But i still have to say in a fight Bya>>Zaraki at the current moment. Last i'll comment about that in this thread

[Dexter]

/spam deleted

Stay on topic folks :)

I would have left the off-topic humour as a relief to the debating.. but there were just too many

[narutoandino]

does zarakis sword have a name

[sweeter]

^^Yeah, it does, but Zaraki doesn't know it yet.

They're not exactly on speaking terms.

(:

[Guy]

does zarakis sword have a name

All zanpakutous have names; whether they reveal it to their owners or not is a different story. Zaraki's sword doesn't trust him enough... yet.

[smach]

....until now!!! just u wait n see! 5th guy is gonna get his ass handed to him, you'll see! :Domo

@Kila Cam: wow...i'm speechless lol

2.) When Zaraki blocked Nnotora's attack, Nnoitora was also brought to his knees multiple times by Nel. His zanpaktou was cracked to the point where he could not release.
Blocking an attack of defeated Espada saved by the miracle and the plot with broken zanpaktou is impressive how?what chapter is this in? i'm starting to lose track of bleach these days coz it's gotten pretty boring.

Oh yes, having a rock solid body is VERY important. He is able to take hits because of that. that doesn't make him more powerful or ad to his ability.although not by a big margin, fighting a somewhat kamikaze opponent, especially at short range, causes more risk of getting attacked.

/spam deleted

One-worded posts are a no-no. Stay on topic folks. :)c'mon now, i find it to be a pretty good experience to see others have "polite flame wars" about anime/manga characters. it's a good way to kill time, n i also participate from time to time when i feel the need to let out some stress.

anyone agree with me?
*stares at crowd of hip hop fans, mods, and the oh so majestic, ~boobies-chaaan!~


"Fast as Byakuya..."? LOL. Byakuya has mastered Shunpo. Zaraki can't use Shunpo, yet.yea guyz, it doesn't take a genius to see that he just used an ub3r fast jump/hop/step to block 5th's fraccion from finishing ichigo off. imean, how stupid do u have to be to realise that the three forms of rapid movement i've listed above are soooo not close to the greatness of using shunpo?

/Sarcasm_off *shout out to h3h3h3*

ps: baka-mono!!! :Haha

...And I'm not saying this because I'm a Byakuya fanboy.lol it's just ironic that your avy, name, n sig make your statement look more ironic than it would normally seem.

I wonder why people keep on stating this as a fact...? As far as I can see, it's fairly obvious he is using shun'po on a few occasions during SS arc.

It hasn't been clearly stated by anyone though, so those clinging on to semantics can keep on debating about I guess... :whatevah:

Just don't say he can't use shun'po as a fact, since it is not. :rolleye09lol just coz of the perfect timing on ur part, i've decided to add this to my sig.

Kidou: If bankai ichigo get a hole through his shoulder with a half spell of white lighting Zaraki is not going to be able to shrug off it etheri'm guessing that's coz he's also gonna have all of his power drained out of him by transorming into tensa zangetsu, even though his reiatsu was always at a higher level than that of the ichigo that fought byakuya, amirite?

Looks like you admit speed is an advantage. I ask you, if Byakuya is so much faster, then how can Zaraki even lay a finger on him?

In addition, SKY is obviously far more powerful than how you put it. It basically disabled Leroux's attacks (by piercing out all his eyes). And where's your proof that Zaraki's reiatsu can blow away SKY? If SKY can be blown away by Zaraki's reiatsu (which isn't even that impressive, compared to other captain's reiatsu), then it's not really a bankai, now is it?

In addition, Zaraki has no defense against Senkei or Hakuteiken.wow, been a while since i saw such a moot arguement. everyone know zaraki doesn't have bankai or the ability to use shikai yet, it's just the fact that past encounters/experiences n current situations lead to him having already achieved them now.

and what's all this talk about byakuya gouging out a pumpkin's eyes, exactly what in the world does that prove? leroux's abilities are gay coz unlike zophise (from gash/zatch bell), he doesn't have any kind of attack power whatsoverver, appart from those infuriating eyes that make me wanna claw him to shreads for being such a freakin disgrace to other awesome espada like catman n emoboy (aka grim n ulq).

Where is the proof Zaraki is stronger than Byakuya then?

It's COMMON SENSE. Byakuya is speed specialist. Zaraki is _____ specialist?maybe we should start a poll on what would fit in the blank:
a) badass-ness
b) ass-kicking
c) ass-whooping
d) entertainment
e) being fun n exciting
f) not acting stuck up
g) awesomeness
h) zomgicantdescribeit
i) ub3rpwnagematerial
j) all the above

Zaraki didn't even render Tousen unconscious when he slashed him at point blank range with even holding him in place. Even more, Tousen was still in condition to espace right after. :)wow...i guess i missed the part where zaraki got serious and used everything he had, including taking the eyepatch off...thanks for the update! :babies:

Read the manga, Zomari is DEAD. Killed by unreleased Byakuya. ^^hand me an RPG or an auto n i'll take care of that piece-of-shit, good-for-nothing, lame-excuse-for-an-arancar named zomari in less that a quarter of the time that byakuya wasted in a bullshit conversation about who's smarter n more inteligent than the other.

Unreleased Byakuya with the speed of shunpo (with one leg) was able to penetrate Espada's skin. :)

Right.
Unless you got proof Zaraki is a tough as that, then I can safely claim Bykauya can take him down unreleased. :whatevah: zaraki stunned 5th with nothing but brute force (with the patch) which was more than enough to calmly take out a released fraccion. counter-pwned.

Senbonzakura is able to effortlessly block Ichigo's attack with Getsuga Tenshou, the same attack that leveled Kenpachi with the ground.

BTW Byakuya's reiatsu is same if not GREATER that Zaraki's reiatsu, so that part of argument is invalid. ^^so what you're sayin is:
zaraki w/o shikai/bankai = byakuya 1st stage bankai, right?

[diamondedge]

so what you're sayin is:
zaraki w/o shikai/bankai = byakuya 1st stage bankai, right?
No.
What I'm saying is Ichigo without anything > Zaraki. ^^

Personality is not power multiplier. ^^

You'll get yer scan when I return.

Zaraki without eyepatch increases his spirit force, not his speed or swordsmanship.

Since he wouldn't be able tp land a clear blow due to the fact he is one of the slower captains around, eyepatch in Byakuya's case helps him how?

[Habanero]

Since he wouldn't be able tp land a clear blow due to the fact he is one of the slower captains around, eyepatch in Byakuya's case helps him how?

Can I get a manga chapter and panel where it is stated that Zaraki's speed is somehow inferior to an average captain's...? :winking56

For some reason these "Battles" sections always contain an awful lot of assumptions... I wonder why is that...? :redbiggri

[Seff vi Britannia]

It never says that anywhere, she's simply assuming. Byakuya is faster than Zaraki, (MOVEMENT SPEED ONLY.) but Zaraki isn't slow.

*sigh*

Anyway, when Zaraki fights Nnoitra, we shall see.

[DarkSlayer]

@Smacharia - when I had posted that, the last time that I had seen Kenpachi fight was when he fought Ichigo, and even then, someone else had already called me on that - so you're a day late and a dollar short.

I also admitted that I was wrong, and that Kenpachi does indeed use shunpo, just not very often and only in short distances.

And as far as my sig and avatar are concerned, DUH I'm a Byakuya fanboy. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. I said "...and I'm not saying this because I'm a Byakuya fanboy..." because I knew some smartass would come along and say "Well you're only saying that because you're a Byakuya fanboy!" Effectively eliminating the possibility of someone stating the obvious and looking like a moron. However it doesn't look like it was as effective as I thought it would be. :rolleye09

[VinScythe]

Incoming..
Ichigo isnt really a good example of power when comparing Byakuya to Zaraki seeing as Ichigo was incredibly inexperienced when fighting Zaraki compared to Byakuya.
Huh? Ichigo at the very beginning of Bleach broke Rukia's binding spell without the aid of Zangetsu or even a Shinigami form to properly leak out power.

Zaraki has enough power to burst out of any bindings Byakuya might toss like candy.

That being said should Byakuya and Zaraki ever fight for some ever reason, Byakuya would have an edge due to the fact he uses strategy from start to finish where as Zaraki only starts to think if he has to. Byakuya will always manage to stay one step ahead of Zaraki due to his variable skills and power as apposed to a one trick pony.
That's just it.
There is little strategy to fighting Zaraki, a white lightning kidou would only give the masochrist more reason to come after you. Six rod prison wouldn't hold him for the split second it would take to lop his head off. Speed will never outmatch his combat coordination.

Zaraki would get a few hits in at the begining but when Byakuya is his most vunerable but after that when Byakuya gets serious he'll monkey stomp Zaraki.
But what keeps Byakuya from being higher is his age, his seniority, and the fact that when he fights he doesnt fight to kill untill he feels threatened he fights to humiliate and subjigate, and that is his biggest weakeness.
They might exchange some even blows, but Byakuya can only win with the use of his bankai. He'll never prove to match Kenpachi shikai to shikai, Kenpachi has defeated captains with bankai previously. Just not losing to Kenpachi would be something to prove.

Byakuya only fights to kill, see Ichigo, Ganju, Ichigo again, Le Roux. I believe Renji was the only exception, but bleeding on ground without calling for assistance is letting him live?
How do you know Zaraki's reiatsu is great enough to stop high level kidou?
Komamura's defense was strong enough to survive a Black Box from Aizen, without any need of medical attention. Byakuya can't even cast a fraction of the power of the spell of Aizen and his kidou specialty squad. Furthermore to Zaraki, who could've removed his patch to annul injury from Tousen.
Even if he could block his senka, this proves what?
Try reading the post
Byakuya couldn't destroy Zabimaru with shikai, so resorted to something else, he disabled it with middle kidou spell. Zaraki can't switch the techniques like Bykakuya can.
Renji was the 6th seat under Zaraki...now he'd be 4th at best.
Don't even begin to compare him to his boss.
Ichigo's sword is wide enough to catch Byakuya's blade. I'm afraid Zaraki's twig isn't wide enough to catch it :).
A fat sword such as Zangetsu would require more time and muscle to reach its point. Zaraki's has both better time and muscle to reach its destination.

I should really mock how you intend to use physics to support an anime fight.

Zaraki's 'twig' won't be snapping anytime soon since even Byakuya couldn't match Ichigo+Zangetsu when his own 'twig' snapped, wait, even better, it 'scatterred' away(real nice use of a release phrase).
Certainly he may be able to pull a Renji and figure out how Byakuya will attack, but blocking one's most basic technique is... nothing, really.
Or you can stop his movement with a Bakudo 61 and slash his head off.
Oops, come as you will Zaraki, you can't fight without a head.
Renji and Byakuya have nowhere near reiatsu levels.
Bakudo 61 won't even hold for the second it takes Byakuya to come and strike.
Once he realizes this HE WONT come to strike, and go back to another meeting with his brain.
Zaraki will match any normal swing?
Yeah if he can see it.
His combat experience will see it better than Byakuya ever could.
It's an experience so great never once did he have to crack open a book to read 'slice here and here'
He could barely block Ichigo's blows (the same Ichigo who had no chance against Byakuya, hint hint).
How the hell was it barely?

Ichigo went even against Zaraki's coordination, he never outspeeded him AT ANY POINT in the battle. And Zaraki was laughing, so much concentration when defending from Ichigo.
Zaraki will remove kido with his reiatsu?
By the time he starts figuring out what happened, he will be missing a head.
So really, no...
You're putting too much real logic in a Bleach battle. Which is basically why all of your arguments against me fail.

When Byakuya dissapeared to slice Ichigo's sack..
Ichigo and Rukia were like 'Where did Byakuya go?
Did they really have enough time in a split second to even gasp and form an expression?
AND FOR THEM TO FORM FULL COHERENT THOUGHTS ABOUT IT?
Whatever happened during that split-second shunpo, Ichigo still matched the blow when Byakuya arrived.

Would their be real world physics to support this by any chance?

[Undying]

Huh? Ichigo at the very beginning of Bleach broke Rukia's binding spell without the aid of Zangetsu or even a Shinigami form to properly leak out power.

Zaraki has enough power to burst out of any bindings Byakuya might toss like candy.
That's just it.
There is little strategy to fighting Zaraki, a white lightning kidou would only give the masochrist more reason to come after you. Six rod prison wouldn't hold him for the split second it would take to lop his head off. Speed will never outmatch his combat coordination.
Orlynao?

Rukia VS AAroniero.

Her spell, which should be WAY weaker than Byakuya's, held him for quite a while, even though he could break it.

So Byakuya, a far more powerful Kido user, not being able to hold Zaraki?

Yeah right.

And a White Lightning through the head will make the masochist fall down and die.

And that's just a 4 level spell.

Byakuya can cast spells WAY HIGHER.
They might exchange some even blows, but Byakuya can only win with the use of his bankai. He'll never prove to match Kenpachi shikai to shikai, Kenpachi has defeated captains with bankai previously. Just not losing to Kenpachi would be something to prove.

Byakuya only fights to kill, see Ichigo, Ganju, Ichigo again, Le Roux. I believe Renji was the only exception, but bleeding on ground without calling for assistance is letting him live?
Correction, Byakuya never uses his bankai to kill.

He so far used it (and shikai) ONLY to demonstrate how superior he is to someone else.

See Ganju, Renji, Ichigo, Le Roux...

He only started trying to KILL Ichigo when he used Senkei.
A fat sword such as Zangetsu would require more time and muscle to reach its point. Zaraki's has both better time and muscle to reach its destination.

I should really mock how you intend to use physics to support an anime fight.

Zaraki's 'twig' won't be snapping anytime soon since even Byakuya couldn't match Ichigo+Zangetsu when his own 'twig' snapped, wait, even better, it 'scatterred' away(real nice use of a release phrase).
You misinterpreted my post, and badly.

Ichigo could only block Byakuya's attack because his sword has enough SPACE to catch it.

Zaraki's is way THINNER.

I did not say it will "snap". I said it won't catch it.

Renji and Byakuya have nowhere near reiatsu levels.
Bakudo 61 won't even hold for the second it takes Byakuya to come and strike.
Once he realizes this HE WONT come to strike, and go back to another meeting with his brain.
Zaraki takes time (and HITS) to figure out what's happening if it's not a direct slash fest.

See Tousen battle :).

And as for "pulling a Renji", again you applied what I said to something entirely different.

Renji was able to deflect Byakuya's swing because he knew what was coming.

Zaraki does NOT know what's coming, kthx.
His combat experience will see it better than Byakuya ever could.
It's an experience so great never once did he have to crack open a book to read 'slice here and here'
Aha.

Right.

Ichigo did not have a chance against Byakuya.

The SAME Ichigo whose blows Zaraki FAILED to catch.

Come now, it's not so difficult.
How the hell was it barely?

Ichigo went even against Zaraki's coordination, he never outspeeded him AT ANY POINT in the battle. And Zaraki was laughing, so much concentration when defending from Ichigo.
Aha.

Ichigo gave Zaraki 3-4 slashes before the latter even figured out what the heck was happening.

He outstepped him completely.

THEN he went head to head in one-blow-finish-all, but there's no blow coordination at all here.

And the SAME ICHIGO has no chance against Byakuya.
You're putting too much real logic in a Bleach battle. Which is basically why all of your arguments against me fail.
Logic? I?

When the HELL did I use ANY form of logic? I pointed to demonstrated feats and character statements.

Don't try playing arrogant with me. You'll just be burned.
When Byakuya dissapeared to slice Ichigo's sack..
Ichigo and Rukia were like 'Where did Byakuya go?
Did they really have enough time in a split second to even gasp and form an expression?
AND FOR THEM TO FORM FULL COHERENT THOUGHTS ABOUT IT?
Whatever happened during that split-second shunpo, Ichigo still matched the blow when Byakuya arrived.

Thoughts are way FASTER than shunpo, and facial expressions form VERY quickly. LESS than a second.

It takes me less time to think what I'm really wanting to write about this argument (which by the way uses logic - the exact same thing you're trying to accuse me of), than to blink.

It takes me less time to form the frown on my face than it takes me to finish the thought I was just talking about.

I told you, don't play arrogant with me. It won't end well for neither of us.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Ichigo could only block Byakuya's attack because his sword has enough SPACE to catch it.

Zaraki's is way THINNER.




Yeah, and he caught and deflected SKY with Tensa zangetsu to.

And Tensa Zangetsu, as everybody knows, is 700ft wide. Yeah. :whatevah:

Besides, if you want to get into technicalities, Isshin stated that captains can change the size of their swords, so meh. :P

[Undying]

Yeah, and he caught and deflected SKY with Tensa zangetsu to.
And Tensa Zangetsu, as everybody knows, is 700ft wide. Yeah. :whatevah:
Besides, if you want to get into technicalities, Isshin stated that captains can change the size of their swords, so meh. :P
:facepalm:

Ichigo did NOT catch Senbonzakura with Tensa Zangetsu. He cut every single petal down.

And yes captains control the size of their swords, because if you just pump it into a gigantic size (a la Ichigo at the start), it will be VERY easy to slice apart, like a balloon filled with hot air.

[Seff vi Britannia]

But, it will still be an uber massive piece of metal able to block SKY, which is not an exceptionally strong attack, as we have ascertained. An analogy;

Let us take your example of the baloon, but put it into more relative terms.

SKY is attacking two things

A super massive wide thin sheet of tin.

A tiny little pole of super reinforced titanium

It won't even scratch the titanium, but it can get round it.

It can't cut the tin because it dosen't have enough power, so it might scratch it, but it can't round it!

And that, kids, is science! :cm:

[Undying]

But, it will still be an uber massive piece of metal able to block SKY, which is not an exceptionally strong attack, as we have ascertained. An analogy;

Let us take your example of the baloon, but put it into more relative terms.

SKY is attacking two things

A super massive wide thin sheet of tin.

A tiny little pole of super reinforced titanium

It won't even scratch the titanium, but it can get round it.

It can't cut the tin because it dosen't have enough power, so it might scratch it, but it can't round it!

And that, kids, is science! :cm:
And that kids, is when I am VERY much tempted to tell you to read Bleach again.

But I won't.

Ichigo did not, not ONCE, BLOCKED Senbonzakura. He CUT THE PETALS DOWN.

Let's use your analogy.

I swing my 1-cm-titanium pole so fast, I slice apart MILLIONS of objects in one instant.

The balloon explodes.

My titanium pole saved me.

Now, SKY attacks again. And again. I can keep using my titanium pole indifferently to stop it from getting to me.

But the balloon is gone.

Cpaisch?

And SKY is a very strong attack, it's just that when you're not trying to kill someone and hold back, your attacks tend to be weaker.

I could break my little baby-brothers arm easily enough, but I hold back, and not break his arm.

Does that mean I can't break his arm :o?

Nope.

And that, kids, it how fighting works :cm:

[diamondedge]

Can I get a manga chapter and panel where it is stated that Zaraki's speed is somehow inferior to an average captain's...? :winking56

For some reason these "Battles" sections always contain an awful lot of assumptions... I wonder why is that...? :redbiggri
There wasn't one.

I am assuming because strength and speed don't go well together - just like Byakuya is psychically nowhere as strong as Zaraki, even though it was never stated in the manga that he is stronger than average captain despite his obviously large body.

You can't move fast and effective being over 2m tall, compared to someone 1 inches lower and 2 times lighter than you, that is a fact that doesn't have to be stated in the manga. I'd love to see a bodybuilder sneak behind someones back and speed kill him.

Was there stated in the manga, zaraki is psychically stronger than Byakuya? No, but from what I've seen, I can assume. Speed is NOT what Zaraki is good at.

I
Huh? Ichigo at the very beginning of Bleach broke Rukia's binding spell without the aid of Zangetsu or even a Shinigami form to properly leak out power.
Zaraki has enough power to burst out of any bindings Byakuya might toss like candy.
Ichigo's reiatsu > Zaraki's reiatsu, your point?

And are you suggesting that Rukai's kidou is on a level of Byakuya's? You've got to be kidding me.

No proof to support your last sentence, especially not after what you wrote.

That's just it.
There is little strategy to fighting Zaraki, a white lightning kidou would only give the masochrist more reason to come after you. Six rod prison wouldn't hold him for the split second it would take to lop his head off. Speed will never outmatch his combat coordination.
Says who? If lvl 34 kidou is enough to disable bankai (which is a stage Zaraki hadn't even gotten to yet), then level 61 wouldn't be able to hold one man in place? Lvl 4 kidou penetrated Ichigo. Seriously, WTF.

Just not losing to Kenpachi would be something to prove.
Erm... Same goes for byakuya, mind you. :whatevah:

Byakuya only fights to kill, see Ichigo, Ganju, Ichigo again, Le Roux. I believe Renji was the only exception, but bleeding on ground without calling for assistance is letting him live?
"Be gone, my sword was not made for killing pests like you."

Byakuya only fights if it's an absolute MUST, he fights to kill if it' something really personal.

What you are also forgetting is the Byakuya's bankai is not limited only to SKY form.

Komamura's defense was strong enough to survive a Black Box from Aizen, without any need of medical attention.
His kidou only reached 30% of it's potential, because Aizen h