Thought on Ichigo's Ban Kai

[brolijc]

as some of you might remember, Byakuya said while on the fight with Ichigo, he said that no Ban Kai is so small, at first i thought maybe because Ichigo is unique, thats why. But after reading chapter 203, i saw how the arrancar guy fighting Ikaku saying that "This is how we Arrancar release our Zanpakutoh". then i saw the arrancar guy's body shape was changed. This probably is how other Vizard or Broken Masks releases their Zanpakutoh too, so i think that because Ichigo is also a half hollow, perharps the Ban Kai shown is not his real Ban Kai after all, Ichigo's robe do change too... any views on this?

[Jasper]

I see you're point and I have to say that I agree to that... It maybe a transitional stage... I mean that he hasn't completed his Bankai yet... Yes those arrancar guys do change their appearances when they release their zanpakutoh and so does Ichigo... but remember even Renji changes appearance when he releases his Bankai... so does that make him a half hollow too?

[brolijc]

but at least Renji's Ban Kai is huge, unlike Ichigo, it is too small to be a Ban Kai, as what Byakuya has said

[Jasper]

I know... I was simply referring to the appearance change...

[the454casull]

ok, so from what we know thus far, on average, shinigami Zanpaku-to usually have huge bankai forms that still retain a sword-like appearance, and from what we've seen from the arrancar, thier Zanpaku-to seem to change their body shape, agreed?? Then that would mean that the Vizard Zanpaku-to must also have some odd way of releasing, well if Ichigo is a perfect hybrid, then he might have a one of a kind Zanpaku-to release. Just a thought :redbiggri

[brolijc]

that can be true too

[suckafish]

ichigos shikai release WAS different from everybody elses, if you all remember. the entire place around him practically exploded when he called out zangetsu.

[the454casull]

I know it was different, I as saying maybe it's on of a kind

[BeryllJ]

I can know that Ichigo's Ban Kai's going to be great ! Coz during episodes57 , When ichigo fight with Byakuya, he din even release his Ban Kai but yet he still hurt Byakuya's shoulder ! just imagine what if Ichigo release his Ban Kai ?!? can't wait to watch episodes 58 ! I hope i'm right...ehe

[brolijc]

heh... BeryllJ, you haven't read the manga and you came to the manga section, full of spoilers here :P

[BeryllJ]

oops...sorry ! I'm out ! lolx...(shame on me!) (''_)...

[ZenthForbias]

These pages explain everything
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/ZenthForbias/manga-rainbleach-ch163-18.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/ZenthForbias/manga-rainbleach-ch163-19.png
Reading is 1337 :D

[brolijc]

i know about that, but not everything we see are true, perharps Ichigo himself thought that that was his Ban Kai's ability, maybe he doesn't even know it himself

[ZenthForbias]

Well...I'm sure that Zangetsu would have shown him exactly how to use it.

[SmallKid57]

wow.....i woulda have never thought of that. wow, club bleach is too intelligent for me...

*sob sob* i'll never fit in :sad: :sadd: :mad: :(

[Fariswheel]

Or maybe he is just unique, he is the main character. after all.

[Jasper]

wow.....i woulda have never thought of that. wow, club bleach is too intelligent for me...

*sob sob* i'll never fit in :sad: :sadd: :mad: :(Don't take it too hard on yourself... Even I sometimes have trouble understanding stuff like this... Anyways back to the bankai... Yes there might be an unlockable ability that Zangetsu haven't taught Ichigo yet... I can't wait to see what that ability will turn out to be...

[Sgt.Reaper]

well remember when the hollow comes out later in the figth and say something like, "i will show you how to properly use bankai". This indicates that there is more to it than shown by ichigo.

[Fariswheel]

well remember when the hollow comes out later in the figth and say something like, "i will show you how to properly use bankai". This indicates that there is more to it than shown by ichigo.

It could just mean that Ichiago does not properly use the power he has now.

[ban.kai]

remember guys.. ichigo isnt the smartest of guys.. if you know what i mean

he probably wouldn't know it if it was his ban kai or not

the only thing is that urahara was WITH ichigo when he achieved it and he called it that so maybe it is his ban kai just uncomplete

[Hits]

as some of you might remember, Byakuya said while on the fight with Ichigo, he said that no Ban Kai is so small, at first i thought maybe because Ichigo is unique, thats why. But after reading chapter 203, i saw how the arrancar guy fighting Ikaku saying that "This is how we Arrancar release our Zanpakutoh". then i saw the arrancar guy's body shape was changed. This probably is how other Vizard or Broken Masks releases their Zanpakutoh too, so i think that because Ichigo is also a half hollow, perharps the Ban Kai shown is not his real Ban Kai after all, Ichigo's robe do change too... any views on this?
OMG! I made the same thread on this topic before! Nobody really agreed with me whatsoever and the thread was closed. >.<

[brolijc]

OMG! I made the same thread on this topic before! Nobody really agreed with me whatsoever and the thread was closed. >.<

you did? i didn't know... lol

[Hits]

you did? i didn't know... lol
yes. -.- http://www.forums.bleachportal.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4517

[brolijc]

i see... maybe because at that time they haven't seen how a arrancar release their Zanpakutoh thats why they are more against it

[ChansteR]

lmao, HitsugayaT, it was closed because you asked for it to be close haha but now it makes since.....wow because of that, I am like thinking so many things now

[Jinchuu]

To begin with, so far Ichigo has the lamest Ban release.
Secondly, the black thing he shoots is Getsuga Tenshou which was taught by Zangetsu himself (itself, whatever.)

Moreover, Byakuya explains how his Ban Kai works, he says that Ichigo gathers all the ban releases spiritual energy and uses it in a small/condense form to perform hyper-speed combat. Eventough his Ban Kai is unlike all other, it's still does not make a difference it is a shinigami's ban release. In addition, Renji's appearance changes as well when he uses Ban Kai, just like Ichigo's coat he has a fur thing on his shoulders. I do not think Vaizards have differnt type of Ban release since they are actually former shinigamis, unlike hollows who does not have any shred of shinigami power.
Probably, this pretty much explains everything.

[adede]

i think his bankai kinda sucks, its not really as unique as all the other ones

[brolijc]

as i said, at least Renji's Ban Kai is much bigger than Ichigo's Ban Kai, plus i said, Ichigo might not know his Ban Kai's real power

[Hits]

didn't he shoot out some kind of crescent shaped objects from his bankai when his hollow side took over? maybe that's the bankai's true ability or it is still might be an advanced stage of shikai, not bankai itself.

[jonat3]

No, superspeed is definately the bankai ability. It may be that Ichigo may train and learn new variations of his bankai, but the superspeed thing is essentially the main ability.
The black shaped crescent thing was merely his shikai. His spiritual pressure was still black after hollow ichigo left. so it may be that it's black, because ichigo's spiritual pressure in bankai mode is condensed.

Also, i don't think his shikai OR his bankai is lame. That's because i clearly realize all it's possibilities. Ichigo's shikai trumps all the shikais we have seen, except for Yamamoto's and Aizen's. His bankai also trumps all the bankais we have seen.

Ichigo has an energy type zanpakutou, one that really fits him. Both Ichigo's shikai and bankai are energy based. Only people with talent for alot of reaitsu can have a zanpakutou like that. Urahara also has an energy type zanpakutou and i believe that Zaraki also have talents in that direction.

Ichigo's techniques are simplistic, but in battle potential it's truly powerful. It's best to compare Ichigo to the reinforcement category from hxh. Simplistic techniques, but the most suited for combat.

[iBankai]

Agree with jonat3!
His shikai is full power.
His bankai is full speed.
He'd be like a machine gun shooting atomic bombs instead of regular bullets.

[_Ink]

Whatever....dude You Sound Fanboyish....
I Mean That Is Like Cool To Be Superspeed. Obviously He Aint All That Fast Cause He Can;t Seem To Keep Up After A While As He Fought Byakuya.
I Know He Is Injured, It Seems To Me The Bankai Can Be Used Only If The User In Full And Best Condition And There Is A Stamina Cost.
I Wonder...is That The Case.

[Jinchuu]

He can't keep up because of Byakuya's Ban Kai's spiritual power. When hollow takes over the first thing he says, "Just being in his Ban Kai's spiritual pressure made your bones shake like crazy, you are a big disgrace."

[Zangetsu Tensa]

He can't keep up because of Byakuya's Ban Kai's spiritual power. When hollow takes over the first thing he says, "Just being in his Ban Kai's spiritual pressure made your bones shake like crazy, you are a big disgrace."
Actually, he says "As I thought, you're just an amateur, Ichigo! The spirit pressure of your bankai has caused all the bones in your body to groan in pain."

Ichigo's own bankai's spirit pressure is what's wearing down on his bones. A sort of slow self-destruction; Ichigo can't yet properly use his own bankai.

[Jinchuu]

Hmm probably two different translations, i believe the passage you used is from Manga7. Well, I'll be taking Japanese literature&language course next semester, hope I will be able to read raw material by the end of the year, so I'll post back here once I'm able to, for now I'll stick with manga-rain's translations.

[jonat3]

Hmm probably two different translations, i believe the passage you used is from Manga7. Well, I'll be taking Japanese literature&language course next semester, hope I will be able to read raw material by the end of the year, so I'll post back here once I'm able to, for now I'll stick with manga-rain's translations.

I think this is the only major mistake manga-rain ever made. It doesn't make sense that Ichigo stiffens up, because of the pressure of another bankai. I wanted to ask the translator from manga-rain, but i never got around asking. Oh well.

[Unrefined-Nemesis]

Didn't Captain Kuchiki Explain That Ichigo's Bankai Is Small Because Ichigo Compressed The Spiritual Power Of Bankai Into A Small Condensed Form Which Gives Ichigo The Great Boost In Speed.....

[jonat3]

Didn't Captain Kuchiki Explain That Ichigo's Bankai Is Small Because Ichigo Compressed The Spiritual Power Of Bankai Into A Small Condensed Form Which Gives Ichigo The Great Boost In Speed.....

Exactly. Ichigo's bankai is based on pure raw energy, just like his shikai. Speed is an expression of spiritual power, meaning that the more spiritual power you possess, the faster you will become. This is a direct result from having spiritual power. Ichigo condenses his power to gain superspeed abilities.
Most other bankais involve using their spiritual power to create complex effects or objects, like Tousen's bankai or Renji's bankai, but Ichigo's bankai uses the energy in it's unaltered raw form.

[brolijc]

don't you think it's pretty boring, imagine last part Aizen fights Ichigo, Ichigo wins by speed, running around etc. that is boring...

[Sandal Hat]

Aizen is probably faster than Ichigo in his bankai form. I doubt Ichigo will take on aizen by himself, I think it will be a group effort to stop him

[brolijc]

Ichigo's current speed for his Ban Kai is too slow, he is just a bit faster than Byakuya, and i'm sure that ain't fast if you compare to the new bad guys we have, the broken masks

[the454casull]

He Most likely got WAY stronger during that fight, I mean he's snuck up(by that I mean that he's stopped 2 attacks before they knew he was there) on the Arrancar on 2 separate ocaisions BEFORE even releasing his bankai.

[jagged]

i think ichigo really truly doesnt understand his power and thats why his other self always cries to take over. It even said itself that he would own zangetsu one day may be ichigo might just have to do that.
I also believe ichigo got weak all of usudden too because when the captains and the vice captains alll of usudden became more confident and stronger against these new threats unlike ichigo getting beaten to a bloody pulp.

[the454casull]

well, kenpatchi did basically say that a shinigami's reiatsu output and ability to cut with his sword was based on confidence. If they are afraid and think that thaey cannot win, their Zanpakuto might as well be made of painted alluminum cans

[NetBelleAnie]

Yea, but remember, Renji's outfit changed as well. And last we checked, Renji isn't anywhere near hollow-related.

I definantly think we have seen a very tiny amount of Ichigo's bankai ability. I doubt speed is the only ability it has, along with giving Ichigo a kickass outfit. Remember how HollowIchigo royally kicked Byakuya's ass with the Getsuga Tenshou? Same idea I don't think we've seen everything from his bankai.

[TrueShinobi]

lol still many questions :p: hopefully not answered quick because that keeps me addicted :redbiggri

[iBankai]

Do you think the chain at the bottom of the sword has anything to do with his bankai? I mean frosty boy has the hand cuffs. Maybe the more ichigo learns how to use his bankai the chain will grow and gain an additional weapon?

and to devildude! lol no im not much of a ichigo fanboy! sure his a good character but his not my fav dude! got that dude? lol

[Ace]

Call me foolish but I think this is Ichigo's shikai form even thought it says Ban Kai if it is its too cruddy

[the454casull]

it's not cruddy, if you think about it. it's probably around 40 to 45 inches long(that's just the blae, not the whole sword) , giving him a long reach with it, also, he's only used it twice, and both times, he still only has speed, and the Getsuga Tenshou? I seriously doubt that is the limit of that version, be it Shikai or Bankai. I expect we will find out more about it as time rolls on.

[Lost1]

I personally like his sword; it reminds me of Setsuna's sword (Last Blade).

http://mitglied.lycos.de/mast0rrr/Profil/BanKai-Ichigo.jpg

http://snk-universe.com/image/artwork/lastblade2/setsuna/6.gif

[brolijc]

that guy there with the black blade, he looks so familiar, but i just can't seem to remember him

[Ryoko]

ya, for some reason i cant shake the feeling that ichigos bankai is his shikai and his shikai is his base form, for one he doesnt seem to be able to make his sword go back to a regular sword form. but then again i dont see why youd be able to call out bankai and get a reaction from it and such. One question i have is Does Ichigo have all the bandages and stuff on in Shikai and Bankai from now on... Cuz before He did Bankai Training his kimono was just a nice version of a regular one and then when he went to save rukia half of the top was cut off and he had the mantle cape and was Bandaged all over and Then when he was in Bankai he had all the Bandages on his arms and under his topcoat-cape

and yes i know the mantle cape was just a loaner lol

[lmegera]

i cant even begin to answer that because its in the manga.... o wait this is the manga section... so i can post spoilers?
just in case
isshin states that only people with captain-level reiatsu can transform the shape of their soul slayers and since Ichigo has such little experience with that minor stuff I do believe that his shikai IS his shikai, but in his bankai... we may be looking at the tip of the iceberg that is his power

i really dont do clothes, some else answer the man's question!

[ras1011]

Ichigo has a Bankai that suits him fairly well, at least I think.
Remember when Byakuya and Ichigo first met, Byakuya said something about Ichigo being slow, even in defeat. From that meeting till their fight, Ichigo's been getting stronger and faster and one way to show it was his fight with Byakuya.

Whether it's his Shikai or really his Bankai, well, I think it is his Bankai only because he uses the word to release his power. But, like so many of the speculations here, I also think it's only the tip of the iceberg. 1) because he's the main character so he's gonna end up being stronger somehow someway and 2) because there's a lot of different directions that they can go with Ichigo such as a) Ichigo merging with his inner Hollow and working as one b) Ichigo defeating the inner Hollow and becoming stronger because of it...there's lots of possibilities so I'd have to say that there's bound to be more to Ichigo later.

Now, about the apperance thing, I think it has something to do with the user and the zanpaktou itself. Sort of a merger between the two and parts of each will come out. So let's look at the other Bankai's we've seen:
1) Kurotsuchi - Konjiki Ashisogi Jizou
So it's REALLY out there (and frankly to me a monstrosity) but then again, so is Kurotsuchi himself. Ashisogi releases poison, Kurotsuchi is immune to it. Sort of a ying/yang merger but still they work together.
2) Tousen - Suzumushi Tsuishiki/Enma Kourogi
Should be one of the more obvious ones'. Tousen is blind and his Bankai uses that to his advantage and increases the skill he has tremendously. Robbing the victim of all senses except that of touch (if you're touching Suzumushi Tsuishiki that is) he is most comfortable in that environment and his Bankai just replicates how he lives day to day.
3) Komamura - Kokujou Tengen Myou-oh
Komamura is a beast of sort and very large and forceful. What better way to express this than having an oversized soldier as his Bankai
4) Kuchiki - Senbon Zakura Kageyoshi
Well, Byakuya's personallity sort of shows that he's the intellectual type or at least of upper class (which he's not afraid to show). So, you can kind of picture him as a Lord in his manor in the cherry blossom grove more than anyone. So the cherry blossoms combined with his intellect would sort of explain Senbon Zakura
5) Renji - Hihiou Zabimaru
So the first one of the Bankai's to actually change the apperance of the user. But going back to the basic concept of merging user/zanpaktou, then you get Zabimaru's Shikai form expanded but remember that Zabimaru is a baboon with a snake for his tail. But it sort of reverses as the snake takes the dominate role and the baboon sort of takes bases with Renji. One acting with the other.
6) Ichigo - Tensa Zangetsu
So again, if we're going along the same lines, it should show that if you sort of merge Zangetsu (human form) and Ichigo you kind of get the change in clothes. As for the sword, well, it could be that was the shape of the Zanpaktou that Zangetsu said would be able to finish him when Zangetsu was training Ichigo. I don't know, but from what I gather, Ichigo and Zangetsu finally merging to become one gets you Ichigo's Bankai.

[lokispec23]

what manga chapters is like episode 58 threw the next few chapters? I tried lookin for the direct download stuff here at work but couldnt find them. plus i can't use the torrents here at work =/ anyone have alink they can give to me?