Tessai's and kidoh

[Polygon]

I had an argument on another forum and I would just like your opinions on

Tessa's strengh. How strong do you think he is? I gave a link showing him doing the way of binding 99 but he called it a plot hole every time. do you think it was a plot hole that he was to use sucha powerful attack?

Also do you think tessai is a shinigami, regular soul or human? I believe he was either a shinigami or soul. I find it hard to believe that he is a normal human affected by uraharas reitsu. I think it is more likley he is/was a shinigami

When aizen did the spell in the 90/s he wasn't able to use it to his full potiental. He failed to use it at the power it was supposed to. Do you think it is beyond Tessai ability to be able to do a high level spell in the 90's?

Sorry if this seems a little odd.

[Sir_unforgiven]

personally i think he's uruhara's vice captain

[Wren]

I agree, hes at least a seated member of the old 12th if not Uruhara's Vice.

[Zangetsu Tensa]

I gave a link showing him doing the way of binding 99 but he called it a plot hole every time.
Can you post this link? I'd like to have the footage for future reference. I never noticed that he used number 99.

As for your relating binding spell 99 to Aizen's use of the destructive spells in the 90's - I believe that Aizen refers only to the destructive spells, which is why such spells in the 90's - the ones that are frighteningly powerful and difficult to use - are termed "Eternal Destruction". It makes little sense for binding spells to be grouped under the term "Eternal Destruction".

However, Tessai is definitely more powerful than he looks - his surviving Ichigo's transformation explosion without a scratch, his brute strength, his use of high level spells, and his casual relationship with Urahara all seems to indicate that he was indeed Urahara's vice-captain, the former 12th division lieutenant.

And I just noticed something else. In episode 18 during Ichigo's training, Tessai uses a large axe to cut Ichigo's spirit chain. If I recall correctly, only a zanpakutou is able to cut spirits, and the axe definitely looks like a zanpakuto - it's black blade with silver edge definitely fits the zanpakuto look, and an axe seems to suit Tessai well. Could this be proof that he's, at the least, a shinigami?

[Wren]

In the Viz english translation manga its 99. Would assume the same in the normal.

[Zangetsu Tensa]

In the Viz english translation manga its 99. Would assume the same in the normal.
Oh, I was never questioning that, I just wanted to see the link.

On a somewhat unrealated note, I think I remember hearing somewhere that Urahara's Benihime is one of two female zanpakutos in all of Soul Society. Anyone know where I might have gotten that idea?

[Wren]

Now that I cant answer, I forgot myself

[Jinchuu]

I strongly believe this was discussed before. I'll post the link as soon as I find it.

[General Cox]

i remember having a few discussions about this before, but iv been saying since i first saw tessa that he was urahara's vice captain probably, if you want another clue, rukia has greater power in a gigai than most humans i would imagine, but still manages to hurt her foot when kicking tessa's ass....

[Darkness_becomes (me)]

Yea... I believe he's pretty tough, and possibly a shinigami (Urahara's VC, if so). But I think that the binding spells are MUCH easier to use than the destructive spells. There's no way that Tessai's demon arts are stronger than Aizen's! I think we'll probably find out soon.

[jonat3]

I dont think he's a shinigami and i doubt he was Urahara's VC. I don't think that kidou is exclusive to shinigami alone. Chad, Inoue and Ishida accomplished the training at Kuukaku's place, which is supposed to be the basics for kidou.

[GeneYuss]

I think he's Urahara's former VC. Their relationship seems extremely similar to the ones shared by the majority of the other Captains and VCs, and they're obviously very familiar with each other. Also, the reason Aizen didn't use the spell at it's full potential is he attempted to skip the incantation and failed. If he had used the incantation, like Tessai does, he probably would have fired it at full power.

[Polygon]

Can you post this link? I'd like to have the footage for future reference. I never noticed that he used number 99.

Here is one from the anime, it is in the manga to I just don't have it right now.
http://www.narutomania.com/forums/attachment-attachmentid_2958-stc_1-thumb_1-d_1132746857.html


As for your relating binding spell 99 to Aizen's use of the destructive spells in the 90's - I believe that Aizen refers only to the destructive spells, which is why such spells in the 90's - the ones that are frighteningly powerful and difficult to use - are termed "Eternal Destruction". It makes little sense for binding spells to be grouped under the term "Eternal Destruction".

I agree totlayy that binding is easier to use. either ay 99 is an immpressive number.

However, Tessai is definitely more powerful than he looks - his surviving Ichigo's transformation explosion without a scratch, his brute strength, his use of high level spells, and his casual relationship with Urahara all seems to indicate that he was indeed Urahara's vice-captain, the former 12th division lieutenant.

I always did think he was his VC. I told the other guy that, and he said it was immpossible because we've seen nothing immpressive from tessai. And when I said he did the 99th way of binding he argued that is has to be a plothole.

And I just noticed something else. In episode 18 during Ichigo's training, Tessai uses a large axe to cut Ichigo's spirit chain. If I recall correctly, only a zanpakutou is able to cut spirits, and the axe definitely looks like a zanpakuto - it's black blade with silver edge definitely fits the zanpakuto look, and an axe seems to suit Tessai well. Could this be proof that he's, at the least, a shinigami?

TRue, I never noticed that. good observation

[Sandal Hat]

I always thought it is the 99th way of binding instead of a level 99 kidoh. I have already debated this in another thread and I'm going to go find it :)

Edit: I found it in like 2 seconds.......It was even made by you Octogon http://www.forums.bleachportal.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3943&highlight=Tessai

[Polygon]

I to always thought he used the 99th way. The interesting thing is it seems to be a 3 part spel he used the first to bind ichigo's arms and the second was the needles in his shoulder and the third was the big block falling down. In at least one of those parts I think he did chant less. The first part I think. Since he simply said the name of the spell to ichigo and when he fell he was already binded.

EDIT: I was bored so I made a gIF of tessais possible zanpaktou cutting the spirit chain. One armed WTF?!?!?! Tessai is ne strong Mofo

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3500/tessai6lg.gif

[sith29]

Aizen failed with his spell because he skipped incantation but its trully amaizing for Tessai to use that high level kidoh. He must have been a shinigami before. As it was stated before he probably was Urahar's Vice.

[Hits]

Aizen failed with his spell because he skipped incantation but its trully amaizing for Tessai to use that high level kidoh. He must have been a shinigami before. As it was stated before he probably was Urahar's Vice.
I'm confused. What has the Hadou that Aizen has failed to use? Was it Kidoh 90, the one he used on Komamura and his Bankai? The black box? If that's the case, how did he fail using that Kidoh? I thought it worked...

On a side note, does anyone think Hinamori would be able to use incantations in the 90's? She is called the master of Kidoh or w.e.

[Zangetsu Tensa]

I'm confused. What has the Hadou that Aizen has failed to use? Was it Hadou 90, the one he used on Komamura and his Bankai? The black box? If that's the case, how did he fail using that Hadou? I thought it worked...
Aizen said that he failed because he only managed to unleash 1/3 of it's potential. The actual spell would have been three times as powerful if he had spoken the incantation - surely meaning instant death for Komamura.

[Polygon]

Aizen said that he failed because he only managed to unleash 1/3 of it's potential. The actual spell would have been three times as powerful if he had spoken the incantation - surely meaning instant death for Komamura.

I thought it was less than 1/3? If it was I believe that aizen would wouls be able to do around80% of the spells potiental if he chanted it.

[Wren]

I'm sure Tessai's axe is probably just the Shikai of his zanpakuto. It wouldnt had been able to sever the chain had it been a normal human made weapon.

[Jasper]

Good point you make there Wren... Indeed Ichigo wouldn't have been hit if the axe Tessai holds is not a zanpakutoh... There might be a chance indeed that he was a shinigami and left with Urahara... Might've even been his VC as someone mentioned... And using a kidoh of the 99th level... I think we have a Kidoh master *Bell rings*... Possibly captain level or something... Strange indeed...

[Polygon]

I'm sure Tessai's axe is probably just the Shikai of his zanpakuto. It wouldnt had been able to sever the chain had it been a normal human made weapon.

True, that. But I'm curious, was it ever sai that all unreleased zanpaktous were swords? Also does anyone know what tessai used to fight the hollows in the ep where the menos grande appeared?

[Wren]

True, that. But I'm curious, was it ever sai that all unreleased zanpaktous were swords? Also does anyone know what tessai used to fight the hollows in the ep where the menos grande appeared?


He used hand to hand and kidoh I think.

[Anil]

ummm.... just a small tidbit that may help...

Back when Rukia was asking about the Quincy... I believe that Tessai had mentioned that he hadn't heard of them for a long time...

This likely indicates that he was at least living in soul society as a soul.... if he wasn't a shinigami himself.... afterall he'd have to be at least old enough to remember 200 years ago right...?

You might want to double check this though... cause I can't remember it very well and don't currently have the time to search for it...

[Polygon]

ummm.... just a small tidbit that may help...

Back when Rukia was asking about the Quincy... I believe that Tessai had mentioned that he hadn't heard of them for a long time...

This likely indicates that he was at least living in soul society as a soul.... if he wasn't a shinigami himself.... afterall he'd have to be at least old enough to remember 200 years ago right...?

You might want to double check this though... cause I can't remember it very well and don't currently have the time to search for it...

I believe he did say that. I also used this against him as an argument, but instited that it wasn't a good example. I'll go dig it up.

[justx645]

I always thought it is the 99th way of binding instead of a level 99 kidoh.

Okay, so let's say it's just the 99th way. Rukia did way of binding, no. 1, and that just held Ichigo's arms back. Tessai's put HUGE freakin' clamps on his arms, then stabbed him with needles and then dropped a block the size of a small house on him. I think there is an obvious difference in the power of the two bindings, meaning (to me at least) that the higher the number, the stronger the spell.

I agree that most likely bindings are much easier than attack spells. But, seeing as Ichigo exploded out of "Way of Binding, no. 99" but got tore up by "Destructive Art 4" by Byakuya, I'm thinking it not only has to do with the number but also the strength of the person using it. I'm sure that Aizen using some number 40 spell would have much more impact than Renji using the same spell.

Anywho, perhaps all the numbers are like the hand seals in Naruto, they just don't seem to matter they're just there for effect.

[Polygon]

Actually level does matter. And like you said so does the user.

BTW can someone tell me where it says that chanting helps the user eprform the spel better. I know it is I juts can't find it.

[Sandal Hat]

All unlrealesed zanpakutos don't have to be swords because Urahara's is his cane. Also, the 99th way of binding means that there are 99 ways to do it. Some ways of binding can better be used in certain types of situations than others.

[Polygon]

All unlrealesed zanpakutos don't have to be swords because Urahara's is his cane. Also, the 99th way of binding means that there are 99 ways to do it. Some ways of binding can better be used in certain types of situations than others.

Agredd. It would make sense that there are certain spells for certain situations.


BTW can someone tell me where it says that chanting helps the user eprform the spel better. I know it is I juts can't find it.

Help, please

[justx645]

In ep. 52 it says that Kuchiki did a spell without the incantation, I don't know specifically where it says spells without incantations are weaker.

the 99th way of binding means that there are 99 ways to do it. Some ways of binding can better be used in certain types of situations than others.

Yes, 99th way of binding does mean that there are 99 (or more) ways of doing a bindings spell, BUT 99 signifies that it's of a higher rank because obviously the 99th way of binding is MUCH more effective than the 1st way. They probably numbered them as they came up with better ones, therefore the higher the number, the better the spell.

[Zangetsu Tensa]

All unlrealesed zanpakutos don't have to be swords because Urahara's is his cane.
It's actually a sword concealed inside his cane. It would make sense that all zanpakutos are swords before they're released - this is the default, nameless, uniform design. The zanpakutos true form might be something different than a sword, but that form can only be revealed by releasing the zanpakuto - Ikkaku's spear is a perfect example of this.

In any case the color scheme of Tessai's axe suggests that if it is a zanpakuto, it has in fact been released.

[Sandal Hat]

Yes, but technically its not a sword

You didn't get what i said about it being more effective in some situations and less effective in others. Lets assume the 56 way of binding someone caused hand and leg cuffs to come from the ground and disable someone and the 39th way of binding someone makes them atrracted to metal like a magnet. Now the 56 way of binding someone in a place with no metal is better than the 39th and the 39th is better if you were near a metal tower

[red_dragone]

Tessai's axe probably is a released zanpaktu. The one argument in his favor for its being unreleased is Yumchika, since his sword is more sickle shaped in its unreleased form I think. Or it could be his shikai, like the soi fon's VC who had a huge mace-like thing for his release.

Either way Tessai is cool. He gets props for how effortlessly he summons the 99th binding spell. The guy's gotta be shinigami, it would be an injustice if he wasn't

[Zangetsu Tensa]

Yes, but technically its not a sword
Uh, yes it is - it sure as hell isn't a cane. A sword sheathed inside a cane is still a sword. If you want, call it sword with a curved hilt. It's still a sword - the cane is just a fancy sheath.

Tessai's axe probably is a released zanpaktu. The one argument in his favor for its being unreleased is Yumchika, since his sword is more sickle shaped in its unreleased form I think.
No. His zanpakuto was already released. He never said the name, nor called out his zanpakuto's shikai form. My proof?

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/1658/yumichika3wf.png
The end.

[Sandal Hat]

So you're saying that this http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8595/aizen30al.jpg (http://imageshack.us) looks exactly the same as this http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/9936/sandalhat4pq9um.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Zangetsu Tensa]

I never said that. In my post I said "if you want, call it a sword with a curved hilt".

It's a sword. No two swords will look identical.

[red_dragone]

Fujikujaku is one of the few zanpaku-to which has an unusual normal-form; a sicle. Actually, it's a four-bladed sicle, each blade atop the other and pinned the base of the hilt so that they can slide out into a sharp fan with a flick of Yumichika's wrist. Though, somehow Yumichika manages to carry it around in a normal-looking sword sheath.<--from bleachportal guide

Yumchika's sword is a sickle, Kubo just never takes care of t he fact that a sickle should not fit into a normal sheath.

If that's what you were trying to say, then my bad. But your reply was kind of hard to read

[justx645]

Yumchika's sword is a sickle, Kubo just never takes care of t he fact that a sickle should not fit into a normal sheath.


*Sigh* You people...in the anime Yumichika's sword started off as a regular shaped sword. When he "released it" it changed into the sickle shaped sword. Later, when fighting Tousen's lieutenant, he "released it" again to show it's power while in shikai. If in the manga you never see it in a normal shape well it was fixed in the anime because he has a normal sword in the anime. I'll get a pic up ASAP.

Edit: It's in ep. 26 or 27 I know for sure. I can't download anything because right now I'm on a dial-up network and it'll take for-dang-ever. I'll have the pic up ASAP or if you happen to have the episodes (or access to them) watch them, because Yumichika's sword doesn't start off as a sickle. I'm sick of people using this in examples for whatever reason.

[SmallKid57]

i thought his released form was that leech thingy that he beat the 9th division VC with...

Tessai is probably urahara's VC

[Zangetsu Tensa]

i thought his released form was that leech thingy that he beat the 9th division VC with...
No, that was his zanpakuto's ability.

I just went back and watched Episode 26. I mistakenly thought that his sword had been released from the start. Apparently, it wasn't - he did release it, and it changed from a regular sword shape to a sickle (which is even harder evidence). Justx645 is completely right, and I'm surprised that the Bleachportal guide could make such a huge mistake.

http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/2818/yumichika16wf.png

http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/9148/yumichika26fs.png
Someone with the power should go fix the guide now.

[General Cox]

hmm, another example could be jinabaru (gate guard that i can never spell the name of >.<) his zapakutou was an axe, or did he release did while i wasnt paying attention?

[Sandal Hat]

those weren't soul slayers(i think) and he didn't release them.

btw, I'll tell unholy about the Yumichika thing when he comes back

[Zangetsu Tensa]

his zapakutou was an axe, or did he release did while i wasnt paying attention?
Those couldn't have been zanpakutous. Why? Because there were two of them. A pair.

Yama-jii states that the only two zanpakutos that are a pair are Sougyo no Kotowari and Katen Kyoukotsu - the zanpakutos of Ukitake and Kyoraku.

[Polygon]

Those couldn't have been zanpakutous. Why? Because there were two of them. A pair.

Yama-jii states that the only two zanpakutos that are a pair are Sougyo no Kotowari and Katen Kyoukotsu - the zanpakutos of Ukitake and Kyoraku.

I don't remember. Did he say released or in general?

[Zangetsu Tensa]

I don't remember. Did he say released or in general?
Kyoraku's are a pair even when not released, and Ukitake's are a pair only when released, and he never specified anything, so I'm assuming he meant in general.

[Polygon]

Kyoraku's are a pair even when not released, and Ukitake's are a pair only when released, and he never specified anything, so I'm assuming he meant in general.

Ya it does make more sense that way.

[justx645]

Justx645 is completely right.

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................Wow. You're the first person...on this entire forum...to say that. I humbly thank you, Zangetsu Tensa.