Pantera Grimmjow vs Nell [Manga Spoilers]

[FullMetal Rebel]

This hasn't been done yet so I thought this would be interesting.

Nell released was even match with unreleased Noitora, and Nell is a former Espada so the two should be near on the power scale.

[Minazuki]

Going off their respective release forms, I'd have to say that Grimmjow is the victor here.

Granted, we've only briefly seen Nell's release, but it was hardly impressive. I have a hard time imagining a centaur (Satyr?) type release form having the same kind of speed that Pantera Grimmjow demonstrated. The only ability we've seen from Nell is an uber-pwnage spear toss. And Grimmjow has plenty of uber pwnage abilities to counter it (Elbow Spikes, Desgarron, Grand Rey Cero, etc.) Granted, Nell might be able to swallow a Grand Rey Cero, but she couldn't handle the elbow spikes or Desgarron. And I strongly suspect that released Grimmjow is actually significantly faster than released Nell.

Unreleased, however, I actually think that Nell would do better. She'd definitely have no problem handling him up to the point that Pantera comes into play.

[Freya]

Okay here is the reason why I chose Grimmjow.

Nell's release was pretty dang awesome. It seemed to possess a lot of power. She would've wiped the floor with Nnoitra (spelling?) if she hadn't reverted back to a child IMO.

But Pantera is so much more nimble than Nell's appeared to be. She could probably take him down if he got into her line of sight but he would be moving around so much that I believe speed would overcome strength.

[Sin]

Nell has this one... why 3rd espada vs 6th... case closed

The only thing is i dunno how long ago she went into that Chibi version but i doubt it would make much of a difference

[SenpaiRetsu]

I'm liking Pantera Grimmjaw in this battle. he has too much speed to contend with, Nell won't be able to get enough solid shots on him.

[KholdStare]

FullMetal Rebel... this thread is a HUGE manga spoiler. In the future for a battle thread made in the anime section which has manga spoilers, name it appropriately.

[Night Prowler]

Why is Bleach Battles Subbed to the Anime section when you have to use Manga evidence for it to be fair.

Anyway Chi Nell is the old number 3 when they weren't any VL's around as the flashback shows her and Nnotoria (hate spelling his name!) are looking for them. So she isn't VL what means that the Ranking bewteen them means nothing.

Like everyone else has stated, Grimmjaw is too fast and like everyone knows in Bleach its Speed > Power.

[Dexter]

Nell has this one... why 3rd espada vs 6th... case closed
As Night touched on, the rankings before mean little. The newer Espada's are created with more potential due to the Hougyoku than the old ones, therefore her ranking for the new Espada could be 6th, or 7th, etc.

Not to mention she hit Nnoitora with a CERO - we don't know if she fired her own CERO at the same time, which would have meant double the force.

Regardless, Nnoitora survived the CERO in his unreleased form.


Also, her released form doesn't provide her with any sort of speed that can combat Grimmjow. Grimmjow's whole release is made of speed, in its sleekness. He was able to outspeed Ichigo in bankai + Vaizard a lot of the time, and Ichigo is shown to use his speed as his trump many times.

[KholdStare]

Why is Bleach Battles Subbed to the Anime section when you have to use Manga evidence for it to be fair.


Because there are certain battles which the Anime viewers can argue about because they have seen a certain character as much as manga viewers have. For example... now the anime viewers have seen just as much of Ulquiorra as we have.. so if we had the Bleach Battle section in the manga section, they would be excluded from posting there.

It's more convenient than having two battle sections.

[Sin]

Anyway Chi Nell is the old number 3 when they weren't any VL's around as the flashback shows her and Nnotoria (hate spelling his name!) are looking for them. So she isn't VL what means that the Ranking bewteen them means nothing.
yeah but she was greater then Nnoitra and he is greater then grimmjow, and it couldnt' have been that long ago, maybe a little less then a year.
Like everyone else has stated, Grimmjaw is too fast and like everyone knows in Bleach its Speed > Power.
Yeah, but speed isn't everything because his attacks don't neccessarily mean that she would get hurt by them if her reiatsu IS greater. Plus nnoitra is stronger then Grimmjow and isn't faster either..
As Night touched on, the rankings before mean little. The newer Espada's are created with more potential due to the Hougyoku than the old ones, therefore her ranking for the new Espada could be 6th, or 7th, etc.
That's true, but Nnoitra and Szayel were around before hand too. So her ranking would still in all likely hood be greater then theirs.
Not to mention she hit Nnoitora with a CERO - we don't know if she fired her own CERO at the same time, which would have meant double the force.
Errr... i don't recall what your talking about it's escaping me at the moment.

Regardless, Nnoitora survived the CERO in his unreleased form.
didn't he dodge it and then she immediately went back to her chibi form?
Also, her released form doesn't provide her with any sort of speed that can combat Grimmjow. Grimmjow's whole release is made of speed, in its sleekness. He was able to outspeed Ichigo in bankai + Vaizard a lot of the time, and Ichigo is shown to use his speed as his trump many times.

We haven't really seen much of her released form to make any real sort of assessment on her speed capabilities, she does have four legs and could be twice the faster for it ... *shrugs*
I am not denying Grimmy's speed only his capability to inflict damage on her.

[Minazuki]

yeah but she was greater then Nnoitra and he is greater then grimmjow, and it couldnt' have been that long ago, maybe a little less then a year.

Yeah, but speed isn't everything because his attacks don't neccessarily mean that she would get hurt by them if her reiatsu IS greater. Plus nnoitra is stronger then Grimmjow and isn't faster either..

That's true, but Nnoitra and Szayel were around before hand too. So her ranking would still in all likely hood be greater then theirs.

Errr... i don't recall what your talking about it's escaping me at the moment.


didn't he dodge it and then she immediately went back to her chibi form?


We haven't really seen much of her released form to make any real sort of assessment on her speed capabilities, she does have four legs and could be twice the faster for it ... *shrugs*
I am not denying Grimmy's speed only his capability to inflict damage on her.



*Sigh* If you wish to comment on a particular match-up, you should be a more attentive manga reader.

Nell struck Noitora with a Double Cero, according to the translation I read. So it was double the force. Noitora survived the attack unreleased, which is probably due to his extraordinarily powerful hierro.

When Nel released, she pwned Noitora with her spear, and was about to deliver a monologue about letting Noitora live when she suddenly transformed back into chibi form. Noitora was thoroughly beaten at that point. (He wouldn't have been able to release at that point, as his soul slayer was too damaged for the transformation to take place)

Also, just because Aizen put Noitora above Grimmjow doesn't mean that Noitora could beat Grimmjow in a straight fight. Zomari, after all, would have no problem annihilating Noitora, and Zomari is two ranks BELOW Noitora. Rankings mean nothing, at this point, unless the fighters are on opposite ends of the spectrums. (Yammy vs. Stark, lol.)

[Sin]

*Sigh* If you wish to comment on a particular match-up, you should be a more attentive manga reader.
Just exactly who do you think you are and talking too with that demeanor?
Nell struck Noitora with a Double Cero, according to the translation I read. So it was double the force. Noitora survived the attack unreleased, which is probably due to his extraordinarily powerful hierro.
am going to go ahead and answer this with your own quote here: Noitora was thoroughly beaten at that point. (He wouldn't have been able to release at that point, as his soul slayer was too damaged for the transformation to take place) This statement made by you defeated the very point you might have been trying to make.
When Nel released, she pwned Noitora with her spear, and was about to deliver a monologue about letting Noitora live when she suddenly transformed back into chibi form. Noitora was thoroughly beaten at that point. (He wouldn't have been able to release at that point, as his soul slayer was too damaged for the transformation to take place)
So how can Nnoitra beat Nell who forever has been able to beat him? when she can do it so quick but only refuses to finish her off?
Also, just because Aizen put Noitora above Grimmjow doesn't mean that Noitora could beat Grimmjow in a straight fight. Zomari, after all, would have no problem annihilating Noitora, and Zomari is two ranks BELOW Noitora. Rankings mean nothing, at this point, unless the fighters are on opposite ends of the spectrums. (Yammy vs. Stark, lol.)
... am not even going to justify any of that with a response, sorry. Cause according to you Ulquiorra could have been beaten by Zomari, Grimmjow, Nnoitra all could have been beaten by Zomari and that's retarded.

[Rainl]

Ok, Im a little bit confused, can someone show me where, Nel fought against Noit in her released form? She didn't release, at all. Remember she was about too, but then quickly reverted too her child form. However when the fight was going on, Noit was being completely outclassed, he couldn't keep up with her at all.

Her speed is demonstrated in that chapter to be someone great. It appeared that way, since it the way it was demonstrated, Noitora seemed completed surprised by almost every move she made.

So no its a bit flawed to say Grimmjow, would win due to his speed. You are only implying that, since we've seen his form in action during the latest episode, however Nel has no case, since we haven't seen her in the anime yet.

Her speed to easily be greater than his own, personally I think it is. My vote goes to Nel.

[ninjabot]

Nell did release:http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/296/04-05/

Also, she did hit Noitora with a double Cero, though it was from before she released :http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/292/07/

And Noitora wasn't defeated soundly either. That speed advantage was against an opponent not necessarily praised for speed...a surprised opponent at that. After being hit by a double cero AND released Nell's special attack, Lanca Verde, he kept smiling, a sign that he wasn't too worried about the outcome of the fight. He could still release, or else he wouldn't have released against Kenpachi who arrived not 15 minutes after Noitora's fight with Nell.

I consider Grimm the winner of this fight based on the fact that he could avoid injury long enough for Nell's release to run out...or he could just blitz her with Cero's, Desgarron, and elbow spikes from a distance. Lanca Verde shouldn't hit Grimm if he fights smart.

[Tank9001]

I think Nell would win because she is EXTREMELY strong.

Plus Noitara can beat Grimmjow. Ichigo beat Grimmjow and Noitara beat Ichigo. Nell was beating Noitara so I think Nell would win.

[ninjabot]

Noitora didn't beat Ichigo. Ichigo was exhausted from fighting Grimmjow, meaning he had no power left to pose a real threat, let alone defend himself. The thing that gave Ichigo the edge against Grimmjow (his mask) was used up. If regular Bankai Ichigo can't beat Grimmjow, then regular Bankai Ichigo would pose no threat against Noitora, especially when he was completely out of strength.

[Habanero]

Nell released was even match with unreleased Noitora

That's just... plain wrong :o

They were pretty much equal in unreleased forms. Nell's one attack in released form cracked Noit's zanpakutou and pierced his shoulder. How's that even...? :p

Anyway, Kubo managed to screw up the espadas by bringing n00bs like Byakuya and Zaraki to fight the 5th and 7th, which, in my opinion, made Grimm look hell of a stronger than either one.

Grimm vs. Nell could be interesting. Kinda hard to speculate though, since we saw so little of Nell's release. We know nothing of her released speed as far as I know, but the power and speed of her one attack in that released form gave Noitora no chance to avoid nor shrug off the damage. Might give trouble to Grimm too. :rolleye09

[Minazuki]

Just exactly who do you think you are and talking too with that demeanor?

am going to go ahead and answer this with your own quote here: This statement made by you defeated the very point you might have been trying to make.

So how can Nnoitra beat Nell who forever has been able to beat him? when she can do it so quick but only refuses to finish her off?

... am not even going to justify any of that with a response, sorry. Cause according to you Ulquiorra could have been beaten by Zomari, Grimmjow, Nnoitra all could have been beaten by Zomari and that's retarded.


You didn't understand any of my points. Let me simplify it:

Nell> Nnoitora unreleased. Just because Nnoitora survived a double Cero, does not mean that he would have ultimately won that fight. And we have ample evidence to believe that Nell is stronger than Nnoitora. ("I am stronger than you...." -Nell. Manga characters, especially the good guys, rarely make such an open blanket statement without some backing.)

Nnoitora could not release at the moment he was struck by Nell's spear because his blade was damaged by Nell's released form, which was >>>>Noitora unreleased. The translation I read affirms this. Noitora would have lost decisively had Nell not reverted back suddenly, which completely changed the outcome of the battle. Noitora smilling was just his usual cocky self. He didn't have any other tricks up his sleeve.

And lastly, the whole logic behind x>y>z therefore z>x is fundamentally flawed. Noitora's higher ranking has NO impact on whether or not he could beat Grimmjow. Speed>strength in Bleach, and Grimmjow is definitely faster than Noitora when both are released. Ichigo couldn't beat Noitora because he didn't have his mask on, he had the living crap beaten out of him by Grimmjow only a few minutes prior, AND he had exhausted most of his spiritual energy. He might as well have been in Shikai. Nell>Noitora does NOT automatically mean Nell>Grimmjow.

Oh, and for that matter, Zomari COULD kill Ulquiorra if he was fighting seriously. His ability is just that hax, and it would be ignorant to deny it.

Nell beats Noitora. Noitora beats Ichigo. Ichigo beats Grimmjow. But there is no way to know if Nell beats Grimmjow. I'd have to say that the x y z logic does not apply here. Remember, after all, who ultimately defeated Noitora. Same guy that Ichigo beat, as I recall.

[Freya]

Yeah, but speed isn't everything because his attacks don't neccessarily mean that she would get hurt by them if her reiatsu IS greater. Plus nnoitra is stronger then Grimmjow and isn't faster either..


We haven't really seen much of her released form to make any real sort of assessment on her speed capabilities, she does have four legs and could be twice the faster for it ... *shrugs*
I am not denying Grimmy's speed only his capability to inflict damage on her.


I voted for Grimm just on the facts that we have seen thus far, but you make good points regarding her ranking and the possibility that she might be fast as well. I just don't see her being a "quick" type of release form. It is true that Grimm's attacks may very well not do any damage to her, but we don't know that, so just with the facts presented so far I'm going with Grimm.


I consider Grimm the winner of this fight based on the fact that he could avoid injury long enough for Nell's release to run out...or he could just blitz her with Cero's, Desgarron, and elbow spikes from a distance. Lanca Verde shouldn't hit Grimm if he fights smart.

I agree.
For those saying that Nnoitra beat Grimm remember Grimm was defeated already by Ichigo, badly wounded and back to his original form when Nnoitra attacked him. SOO we don't know if he could have beaten Nnoitra or not. We only have the ranks to go by and you saw what Grimm was able to do against Ulquiorra. I don't think the ranks 5 & 6 are necessarily that big of a gap.
And Nel was a rank 3 before Aizen (at least I think she's an original espada) and Aizen made new arrancars that took a lot of the seats in the espada ranks because they were more powerful than the natural ones. Grimm IMO is level 6 not necessarily because he is at that level but because he's not as trustworthy either. I don't think that the ranks are just about power.

[Lightey Natsume]

I say grimmy wins this mostly because nell is in his child form

[bballstar23]

I'm gonna say Nell, because at one point she was the 3rd Espada, though I can't tell if that was before or after Aizen, and we haven't seen enough about her to tell what else she can do in her released form.

[Zanga]

[INDENT]yeah but she was greater then Nnoitra and he is greater then grimmjow, and it couldnt' have been that long ago, maybe a little less then a year.
[

Wrong, Noitra's states that it has been years since that incident. His line was somethign like "Nelliel, do you know how much years have past since that incident? That rank means shit"

Something in those lines anyways.

yeah but she was greater then Nnoitra and he is greater then grimmjow, and it couldnt' have been that long ago, maybe a little less then a year.

Ichigo is greater that Zaraki.

But Ichigo is on even terms with Grimmjaw.

But Grimmjaw is weaker then Noitra according to you.

But Zaraki beat Noitra.

So shikai Ichigo > Noitra.

But Bankai Ichigo+ mask = Grimmjaw.

Who is the 6th.

Noitra is 5th.

I think you get the point.

So how can Nnoitra beat Nell who forever has been able to beat him? when she can do it so quick but only refuses to finish her off?

Um. Years of training? Strengthening of his hierro? To the point where his hierro is greater then the current Espada numero uno? Are you going to pull out some bullshit saying Nell can take on the current First now?

Had Noitra released and gone on against Nelliel released, he most likely would've won, Her 'green lance was basically dodged a tad bit, and messed up his zanpaktou some, but didn't completely shatter it.

And I'll bet my balls that his released blades are loads stronger than his unreleased zanpaktou. Which most likely means..

Santa Maria blades>Green lance.


But on topic, Grimmjaw has this.

[Jooliyan]

Oh, and for that matter, Zomari COULD kill Ulquiorra if he was fighting seriously. His ability is just that hax, and it would be ignorant to deny it.




ok no no thats wrong on to many levels when has Ulquiorra ever put effort into fighting the only time was when he had to push on the GT Ichigo Fired off... so no and we have not seen Ulq release.. i could easily see Ulq doin some Shunko (i think.. w.e geeve) and lopping of Zomaris head..


Nell> Grim because shes a centaur end of story
and chi made some good points regarding her being a horse.. which has four legs.. which albeit not as fast as a panther per say but still relativley fast

[zen]

c'mon nel is the victor, look at her old espada number and it's a rap. She can easily take grim-jow down.

[Lightey Natsume]

I say grimmjow takes this to a more powerful released form dont get me wrong nells is awsome but it just wasnt powerful enough for me

[Jooliyan]

@ bludd some one stated that previous numbers mean nothing to new espada.. but then another person said something about Nel and Nnoitora sent to retrieve VLs so Aizen would be smart enough to send at leas one VL to recruit other Vls.... No? so she wins

[Zanga]

@ bludd some one stated that previous numbers mean nothing to new espada.. but then another person said something about Nel and Nnoitora sent to retrieve VLs so Aizen would be smart enough to send at leas one VL to recruit other Vls.... No? so she wins

Doubt it. I can go and ask a super steroid buff pro wrestler to join my school judo-club, whether he says yes or no is up in tha ri but you get my point.

I dont see VL's being hostile, since they're already fully evolved. And since those two were sent by Aizen, who can probably take out a VL himself, they wouldn't try shit.

[Sin]

I say nell at her prime vs Grimmjow... Grimmjow doesn't stand a chance, yeah overall speed of grimmjow is impressive but we didn't even see Nell move... why? because she didn't have to, plus she's a centaur which means 4 legs she may very well be faster then Grimmjow. I mean grimmjow runs on two and 4 will always be faster then two in my book. Plus her lance may have more then one ability to it besides firing that energy beam.

[Zanga]

Who's to say Grimmjaw's can't run on all fours? He's a panther afterall.


I still say Grimmjaw.

[Jooliyan]

Doubt it. I can go and ask a super steroid buff pro wrestler to join my school judo-club, whether he says yes or no is up in tha ri but you get my point.

I dont see VL's being hostile, since they're already fully evolved. And since those two were sent by Aizen, who can probably take out a VL himself, they wouldn't try shit.

how do you doubt it.. if you send two adjucas (sp) to a VL the first instic of any hollow it to wtf pwn another hollow..


so.. i dont quite understand what you are saying

[KholdStare]

she may very well be faster then Grimmjow. I mean grimmjow runs on two and 4 will always be faster then two in my book. Plus her lance may have more then one ability to it besides firing that energy beam.

I doubt she moves faster than Grimmjow. Panthers, or cats in general are supposed to be some of the most agile animals there are. And Grimmjow's release's greatest asset is probably it's boost in speed.

[Sin]

I doubt she moves faster than Grimmjow. Panthers, or cats in general are supposed to be some of the most agile animals there are. And Grimmjow's release's greatest asset is probably it's boost in speed.
STALKER!!! lol

yeah its probable but panthers like all giant cats even the cheetah can run at top speed for a very limited amount of time. While horses can run at higher speeds for longer periods. But as we saw Grimmjow can run and run and run so i doubt their following the realistic rules of their animal counterparts. But in mythical cultures where there are mentions of centaurs they were alleged to being the fastes things on the planet due to their mythical natures. But no way of knowing if their following that rule either. So thats why i said its probable that she's faster but not guaranteed... I will say that grimmjow woudl be more agile then her

[Zanga]

how do you doubt it.. if you send two adjucas (sp) to a VL the first instic of any hollow it to wtf pwn another hollow..


so.. i dont quite understand what you are saying

What's the point for a VL to devour more hollows? They've completed what all other hollows attempt, which is evolving to the highest form a hollow can reach naturally.

And again, they were sent by Aizen, so to think the VL's aren't aware of the giant white city in HM is ridculous. They won't try shit.

[Jooliyan]

ahhh ok see i had no idea what you were getting at alright thanketh


i still stand firm and believe that Nell is > Grim..


@ Chi sick point on mythology btw! :D

[Zanga]

Nell is not a centaur.


She's a goat. Accept it.

[Esca]

I give this to Grimmjow.

If it came down to pure release, I'd believe he'd win as Nel being a "goat" or centaur doesn't give her much in terms of versatility, which is what she'd need to defeat him. I mean, he smacked around Vaizard Bankai Ichigo, who didn't score a hit until he grabbed Grimmjow - he clearly cannot be beaten with lack of mobility AND speed.

[Sin]

@esca: I don't deny that Grimmjow has the advantage over Nell as far as versatility but I still retain my desposition that we haven't seen enough of her to say anything about anything regarding her abilities.

@Zanga: Plus logic would discern that even though its a goat instead of a horse it would still fall withing the Centaur family. They don't have a specific name for them that I can remember and its not a faun since that specific species in mythology would be 2 legged instead of four. So the closest thing it would resemble being on Four legs would be a centaur having half a human body on top of those four legs and all. So my statement above still holds true but thank you for trying :rolleye09

[Zanga]

A centaur is a half man, half horse. Not a goat.

Like that Grantz guy(the weak one). He looked like a Minotaur, but his release said he was a bull. So he turned into a bull.

Nell turned into a goat. Her release was goat. She has a goat hollow-mask on her head even before releasing. She's a stupid goat. Why a goat kubo. Why a goat.

I don't deny that Grimmjow has the advantage over Nell as far as versatility but I still retain my desposition that we haven't seen enough of her to say anything about anything regarding her abilities.

So why're you so bent on Nell beating him then? I think we've seen enough, Kubo's most likely done with her and her release so he showed us what we needed to see.

She threw a lance, and the slow bumbling idiot who got owned by Kenpachi dodged it.

I'm starting to hate Nell Ohemgeez.

[Sin]

Hmm i forgot about this... i still retain nell winning this.

BTW Zanga show me where it says 10 years? and after relooking over the fight if she hadn't turned back into a bumbling idiot of a kid that fight was a good as won in her favor, so that's the difference in strength between her and Nnoitra and Grimmjow. So i still say there's good cause for it.

Plus Nnoitra was able to do more then keep up with Ichigo's bankai speed but he lost sight of Nell several times before she released after she did she was more stationary and about Ubber explosive power shots. Face it if she can beat Nnoitra she can beat Grimmjow

[kav2001c]

What's the point for a VL to devour more hollows? They've completed what all other hollows attempt, which is evolving to the highest form a hollow can reach naturally.

And again, they were sent by Aizen, so to think the VL's aren't aware of the giant white city in HM is ridculous. They won't try shit.

Evil feeds upon itself.
Even the intelligent VL seek to destroy others

There are alot of points in HM that are beyond ridiculous (and most involve Aizen and his plots)

[Kurosaki Isshin]

Nell wins. Why
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii46/sYR3s/c0e8f6cd.jpg


I rest my case.................
(to not break the oneliner rule)



If grimmjow see nell like the picture above he would not be able to stop staring and nell would just cut him down while he day dreams of her. Heck she could beat any straight man in a fight because of that.

[captainmawaluigi]

Grimm wouldnt see nips....cats like nips

anyway.....Grimm would win, he has the power advantage...when Nell lost her adult form she lost her chance of winning.

[Sin]

Grimm wouldnt see nips....cats like nips

anyway.....Grimm would win, he has the power advantage...when Nell lost her adult form she lost her chance of winning.

I don't think so, i think this is assuming that she retained her adult form. Plus in her adult form she was able to slice through Nnoitra and move way faster then him. So Grimmjow's "advantages" aren't really the same against Nell as they were against Ichigo. xD

If She can cut Nnoitra she can sure as shit cut Nnoitra, plus if Gran Rey Cero is fired at her she'll take it, eat it, and add her own to it and Grimmjow is bonned!!!! xDD

[KholdStare]

I don't think so, i think this is assuming that she retained her adult form. Plus in her adult form she was able to slice through Nnoitra and move way faster then him. So Grimmjow's "advantages" aren't really the same against Nell as they were against Ichigo. xD

Yea, they are even more pronounced when he fights Nell. I don't believe that Nell is faster than bankai Ichigo and Grimmjow is on par with bankai Ichigo's speed so this advantage is clearly more pronounced if he were to fight Nell.


If She can cut Nnoitra she can sure as shit cut Nnoitra


Huh?


plus if Gran Rey Cero is fired at her she'll take it, eat it, and add her own to it and Grimmjow is bonned!!!! xDD

She can only Grimmjow if she can catch up to him. He's a speedster and something tells me that a panther is much more agile than a "centaur" if you wish to call her even that.

[smach]

Nell is simply one of those people whose releases don't seem to benefit them that much. Lets see...she turns into a, goat. Unless she has a more humanoid form when fully recovered, it seems to me like she's got of openings and doesn't have that much flexibility either. Her only attack as of now seems to be the green lance, which, given Grimm's abilities and stats, doesn't seem like something that's gonna very effective in a fight between the two.

Also, from the looks of it, her defense/skin ain't that strong so I don't see her shrugging off Grimm's attacks like they're nothing.

Anyways, until we see more from her (maybe in the next couple chapters) the victory will go to Grimmjow.

[Esca]

Grimmjow is on par with bankai Ichigo's speed

Pantera Grimmjow is faster than Vaizard Bankai Ichigo and regular Grimmjow is faster than Bankai Ichigo.

[insert statement here]

[KholdStare]

Pantera Grimmjow is faster than Vaizard Bankai Ichigo and regular Grimmjow is faster than Bankai Ichigo.

[insert statement here]

I disagree. Vaizard bankai Ichigo seemed to get faster as the fight progressed. If you look at pages 10-13 in chapter 282 you see that Ichigo and Grimmjow both keep dodging and shunpoing behind each other. On page 15 Grimmjow is surprised how Ichigo managed to dodge his attack and appeared behind him. I don't think it's a fair assessment to say one is faster than the other when at different points of the battle they seemed to switch places as to who was faster.

[Esca]

Then try to look at the beginning of the battle when they were both 100%. Grimmjow was "outspeeding" VB Ichigo, who landed maybe 3-4 hits, through the beginning, and through the majority of the battle.

The only time hits were landed by Ichigo was when he stopped Grimmjow's movements, which is a factor when determining speed. Grimmjow was the faster one, evidence in their battle(s).

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. Same as I.

[KholdStare]

Then try to look at the beginning of the battle when they were both 100%. Grimmjow was "outspeeding" VB Ichigo, who landed maybe 3-4 hits, through the beginning, and through the majority of the battle.


Which is why I said that Ichigo got faster as the battle progressed. If you believe this is due to Grimmjow tiring then you have to take into account that Ichigo took more damage than Grimmjow did so he should have slowed down more. But he didn't.


The only time hits were landed by Ichigo was when he stopped Grimmjow's movements, which is a factor when determining speed. Grimmjow was the faster one, evidence in their battle(s).

So if he did get hit more, why was he dodging more later on? Shouldn't he have slowed down due to the amount of damage he was taking?


You're entitled to your opinion, of course. Same as I.
And we are both entitled to defend them. I feel that your opinion puts one to be clearly faster than the other which I feel cannot be done.

[Sin]

@Esca: I agree with Khold, in the begining i think Ichigo was caught off guard by the increase in power and he was a lil emo over Orhime seeing him in that state. But he got over it and started fighting back and dodging and moving at top speed along with grimmjow after the initial shock was over.

Yea, they are even more pronounced when he fights Nell. I don't believe that Nell is faster than bankai Ichigo and Grimmjow is on par with bankai Ichigo's speed so this advantage is clearly more pronounced if he were to fight Nell.
Hmm i didn't say that she was faster in her released state... but my reasoning is that Nnoitra saw through all of Ichigo's attack and even told him that he was too slow but then he completely lost sight of Ichigo, Nell even took him from Nnoitra's hand without him realizing. That's pretty fast for an unreleased state.


Huh?
I was saying that she is able to cut Nnoitra where as Ichigo couldn't, SO to be able to Cut Nnoitra would sure as shit imply she CAN cut Grimmjow and probably alot worse too xD


She can only Grimmjow if she can catch up to him. He's a speedster and something tells me that a panther is much more agile than a "centaur" if you wish to call her even that.
errrrrr i was actually talking about her abilities with Cero's, am postulating that if a Gran Ray Cero was fired at her she could eat it, add her own to it and return the fire (double Gran Rey Cero) xD

[smach]

I'd prefer to simply post the supporting pages but I'm feeling too lazy.

Noitora studied Ichigo's moves from his fight with Grimmjow and also waited for Ichigo to be worn down before showing up.

Ichigo with mask can cut Noitora as well.

Also keep in mind that we don't know the limits to Nell's consumption of ceros. Like how much she can fit in her mouth. :P

[Sin]

ROFLMAO


I was waiting for someone to say that about swollowing things down.

But still the point remains that if she can cut Nnoitra so to can she cut Grimmjow, and she has speed in her unreleased state dude.

And without knowing how much she can "fit down her throat" it's not too much to assume she can fit a gran ray since she was a former espada. xD

[smach]

But her released from didn't even pierce Noitora, and only hit because he didn't have the required speed to dodge or counter. Grimmjow, both sealed and released, has the speed and strength to block, counter, and dodge anything thrown at him by Nell.

Like you said, the former Espada. And what did Noitora tell Nell about the current espada? Besides...you have to see it to believe it. :cool:

[Sin]

But her released from didn't even pierce Noitora, and only hit because he didn't have the required speed to dodge or counter. Grimmjow, both sealed and released, has the speed and strength to block, counter, and dodge anything thrown at him by Nell.
That's all assumed, as well as mine. Truth is Nell hasn't shown much, she was going to kill Nnoitra then went back Chibi so we don't know what all she really can do.
Like you said, the former Espada. And what did Noitora tell Nell about the current espada? Besides...you have to see it to believe it. :cool:
Yeah this is the same guy who blabbed about Kenpachi not being able to cut him and wound up being killed. So it's hard to say, even if the current power levels have changed there's no way to determine just by how much and where she would rank in.

Let's wait and see what happens... if anything. I want nell to win cause she has boobies by the way xD