Kuroi Getsuga

[vision33r]

In Eps 59, when Bankai Ichigo unleashed this black projectile at Byakuya, he called out "Kuroi Getsuga!"

Now, Byakuya looked amazed or surprised by it. What exactly is "Kuroi Getsuga?"

Is it demon magic? Is it something that he's seen before used by hollows or etc?

[zembu]

i would say it was one of zangetsus attacks but byakuya knew its name so that kind of throws me off

[ChronoTrigga]

Well...it means Black Moon Fang....he was referring to how his Moon fang was not white, but black.

[DKzM0mA]

Kuroi means black, so Byakuya was surpised because his getsuga tenshou attack was black instead of the usual blue.

[Zangetsu Tensa]

I'm inclined to think that it's the actual name of that attack, since logic would indicate that shikai abilities aren't useable in bankai, kuroi getsuga would be a logical upgrade from getsuga tenshou.

[DKzM0mA]

I believe the only upgrade the regular Getsuga tenshou got was a power boost, and the colour, but otherwise, i think it is the same thing.

[zembu]

no its seemed faster and to be more serpentine

[Zangetsu Tensa]

Definitely much faster in both execution and actual speed of the projectile - Hollow Ichigo was able to bust out three or four of them at the same time. Combine that with the speed of the bankai, and you can have multiple Kuroi Getsugas firing at an enemy from all sides silmotaneously. Plus there was that really big one that he unleashed when he grabbed ahold of Byakuya - the change is definitely more than cosmetic.

[DKzM0mA]

Maybe the hollow somehow warped all of Ichigo's abilites. Just a guess...

[zembu]

well its changed his reiatsu we see it change black at the end of the ep

[Zangetsu Tensa]

Maybe the hollow somehow warped all of Ichigo's abilites. Just a guess...
Enhanced, I think would be a better word. Hollow Ichigo definitely seems to have almost instant mastery over Tensa Zangetsu, which is unheard of. Plus the hollow aspect removes any sort of power limit or cap that the bankai may have had, allowing for literally infinite potential.

However, the weapon and the bankai remains the same, so really the abilities should be the same as well. It'd make sense for the Getsuga to turn black with the bankai, since the bankai made Ichigo, and his sword, completely black as well.

One cosmetic change I believe shifted with the hollow is the red outline around the black Getsuga. Later when Ichigo regained control, his reiatsu was black with a blue outline instead of red, matching the original color of Getsuga Tenshou. In this way I believe Kuroi Getsuga retains the same color and remains the same ability, though it would have a different color outline depending on which personality was in control at the time - after all, the Getsuga is nothing more than the user's reiatsu unleashed from the tip of the sword.

[zembu]

Enhanced, I think would be a better word. Hollow Ichigo definitely seems to have almost instant mastery over Tensa Zangetsu, which is unheard of. Plus the hollow aspect removes any sort of power limit or cap that the bankai may have had, allowing for literally infinite potential.
no because when ichigo fights no name in his soul during the kenpachi fight no name gets obsorbed into zangetsu

[Polygon]

Actually if you look, before the final attack a bunch of Kuroi Getsugas appear, exept with a blue outline. Meaning that it is not a hollow ability. I believe that it is he same as his shinkai. Exept that it is is more compressed allowing for more power, and has some control to it. I also think that when Ichigo can use that with a blue outline and using the hollow powers at the same time he will have mastered over his hollow and possibly zangestu.

Abd byakuya knew the name because

a.) its common sence

b.) this is anime, where the enemyautomaticly knows the oppenents moves name.

[zembu]

no ichigo says that zangetsu only taught him getsuga tenshou so at the end those wouldnt have been numerous Kuroi Getsuga but his reiatsu that he was putting into one giant getsuga tenshou

[DKzM0mA]

All those kuroi tenshos the hollow launched were outlined with red, i just checked, and no I don't think the final attack was a Getsuga Tenshou, because when Byakuya clearly showed us in his memory that ichigo just stabbed his sowrd right threw byakuya's blade, which tells us that Ichigo just put his remaining reiatsu in one final slash.

[Sandal Hat]

Zembu: that was Ichigo's bankai version of getsuga tenshou if that is easier to understand. It is called Kuroi getsuga because its black and kuroi means black.

Edit: Zembu was reffering to the explosion that was made when all the Kuroi getsuga's collided

[DKzM0mA]

Oh, my bad. But yeah, they were numerous tenshous being launched. One he shot from the front then ran behind Byakuya and blasted him back there, so he got hit in two places. Only quiestion is if that was an advanced form of the getsuga tenshou, why wasn't Byakuya sliced up? Black or not, it's supposed to cleanly slash through anything.

[Sandal Hat]

I believe it didn't cut through byakuya because of his reiatsu which is higher than the opponents that Ichigo has been firing and so far getsuga tenshou has only cleanly slashed through the ground

[Zangetsu Tensa]

no because when ichigo fights no name in his soul during the kenpachi fight no name gets obsorbed into zangetsu
Man, I can't even tell what exactly you're trying to say here, but I'll take a guess. The Hollow doesn't need a name because he's familiar with Zangetsu, and in fact the two seem to have a chummy relationship. If you recall when Ichigo fought with his Hollow, the Hollow was actually contained within Zangetsu. So long as the Hollow knows and works with Zangetsu, he can continue to use Zangetsu effectively.

Only quiestion is if that was an advanced form of the getsuga tenshou, why wasn't Byakuya sliced up? Black or not, it's supposed to cleanly slash through anything.
That's not how spirit attacks work. There is nothing physical about the attack - it's simply a clash of two spirit forces. If the amount of reiatsu propelling the Kuroi Getsuga is only slightly greater than the reiatsu Byakuya uses to resist, he will not be cleanly cut but probably only battered.

[Nood]

Damn, its name is still Getsuga Tenshou.
ICHIGO himself say it at the last attack that its a Getsuga Tenshou.
Probably in Bankai it eats up more reiatsu thats why Ichigo didnt used it only once at the last attack.
But Hollow Ichigo has lotsa more raiatsu to waste in it so he played around fireing multiple Getsuga Tenshou's at the same time than pushing Byakuya in them.
My theory is that in Bankai, the Getsuga Tenshou is condensed, and not scattered around like in shikai. Even if Ichigo aimed at Byakuya when he used it on the first time, he ripped apart the ground too. While Hollow Ichigo used 4 of them at the same time and it only hurt Byakuya.
So its probably a concentrated Getsuga Tenshou. Byakuya said Kuroi Getsuga not because he knew the attack, but because Ichigo told him that the attack's name is GETSUGA Tenshou. KUROI means black. And when Byakuya saw it he just said KUROI GETSUGA, probably in the meaning of "Wtf its now black" He could have said "Kuroi Getsuga Tenshou!?!", but probably you dont care about details like saying the whole name instead of just a part of it when 3 of them going against you.

[Zangetsu Tensa]

Damn, its name is still Getsuga Tenshou.
ICHIGO himself say it at the last attack that its a Getsuga Tenshou.
Absolutely false. Don't make stuff up.

Everything we've seen indicates that shikai abilities are not usable in bankai - it's an entirely different level of release. Show me one instance of a shikai ability being used in bankai and your post might have merit - otherwise it's baseless and false.

[Nood]

Lol.
Ichigo saying that the only technique Zangetsu told him is Getsuga Tenshou, and the only thing that he can do is to put all of hes reiatsu in it, than doing the thing isnt enough for you...than you are just stupid.

Ohh, and just for you Mr.Ignorant.
Byakuya's shikai ability were used in Bankai. Its the same move with more power & petals.

[Kuta~]

hes got a pretty damn good point there...

[Zangetsu Tensa]

Lol.
Ichigo saying that the only technique Zangetsu told him is Getsuga Tenshou, and the only thing that he can do is to put all of hes reiatsu in it, than doing the thing isnt enough for you...than you are just stupid.
That is not what he said. He said Zangetsu only taught him Getsuga Tenshou, and after that he said he was going to put all of his reiatsu into one final attack, not that he was going to put his reiatsu into Getsuga Tenshou.

Like I said, don't make stuff up.

Ohh, and just for you Mr.Ignorant.
Byakuya's shikai ability were used in Bankai. Its the same move with more power & petals.
Can you name this ability? No? That's because it's not an ability.

Byakuya's bankai abilities are Senkei and Hakuteiken, neither of which were used in his shikai.

Also, your insults come very close to trolling. Watch where you step.

[Nood]

Omg, you r the one making stuff up.
You saying that Ichigo just stated that Zangetsu only taught him Getsuga Tenshou. Than started an attack????
And why the hell he would say that?
Its like "The curtain falls with the next attack! My mommy taught me how to play football! I put all of my reiatsu in this attack!"

Okay if its not an ability than its a form. Than why does Byakuya's shikai and bankai has the same form? Can you tell me any other guy whos bankai and shikai has the same form?

[Zangetsu Tensa]

Omg, you r the one making stuff up.
You saying that Ichigo just stated that Zangetsu only taught him Getsuga Tenshou. Than started an attack????
And why the hell he would say that?
Byakuya had just demonstrated Hakuteiken, and Ichigo told him "I don't have anything that impressive, Zangetsu only taught me Getsuga Tenshou." Also, please use proper grammar - I have trouble deciphering AIM speak.

Its like "The curtain falls with the next attack! My mommy taught me how to play football! I put all of my reiatsu in this attack!"
Uh, what?

Okay if its not an ability than its a form. Than why does Byakuya's shikai and bankai has the same form? Can you tell me any other guy whos bankai and shikai has the same form?
The form is not what's being debated here. The fact remains that you cannot name a single instance where anyone was able to use shikai abilities in bankai.

[Nood]

Well than.
I tell you. Ichigo saw Byakuya's Imperial sword, and said that he cant come up with anything that amazing, Zangetsu only taught him Getsuga Tenshou, so its COMMON SENSE that he can only use that.

The form is not what's being debated here. The fact remains that you cannot name a single instance where anyone was able to use shikai abilities in bankai.
I have two comments for this.
First, Byakuya's shikai ability is to scatter hes zanpakuto into small blades that lookslike flower petals, and control the little blades against the enemy.
Hes Bankai firstly is to summon many swords, scatter them into small blades and control them JUST LIKE in shikai.
Second: SO?
Name a single instance where someone except Ichigo raised to a Captain ranked shinigami in 2-3 months.
Name a single instance where someone achieved Bankai in 2 days.
Name a single instance where someone mastered shunpo in 1 day.
You cant? Well ic ant do it too. MAybe ebcause Ichigo has another fukin UNIQUE ability, so he can use Getsuga Tenshou in Bankai too.

Even the Zanpakuto guide writes it down like this, because its clear as hell. You only need common sense.

[Zangetsu Tensa]

Well than.
I tell you. Ichigo saw Byakuya's Imperial sword, and said that he cant come up with anything that amazing, Zangetsu only taught him Getsuga Tenshou, so its COMMON SENSE that he can only use that.
I agree. However, what he was doing was not an ability, it was merely a crapload of reiatsu being poured into a final attack. Unleashing pure reiatsu is not an ability, but it's flashy, and potentially powerful in a head-on rush.

I have two comments for this.
First, Byakuya's shikai ability is to scatter hes zanpakuto into small blades that lookslike flower petals, and control the little blades against the enemy.
That's his shikai release, not his ability. Don't confuse the two. As a matter of fact, I don't think we've yet seen any true abilities from his shikai.

Second: SO?
Name a single instance where someone except Ichigo raised to a Captain ranked shinigami in 2-3 months.
Name a single instance where someone achieved Bankai in 2 days.
Name a single instance where someone mastered shunpo in 1 day.
You cant? Well ic ant do it too. MAybe ebcause Ichigo has another fukin UNIQUE ability, so he can use Getsuga Tenshou in Bankai too.
What you're saying is that Ichigo is special? That's a given. However, simply because he's done some (not all) of the things you've listed above does not mean he's got a blank cheque to do anything else. By that logic, one could say that Ichigo can make his hair grow extremily long and blonde while becoming hugely powerful, simply because we've seen him do unusual things before.

Even the Zanpakuto guide writes it down like this, because its clear as hell. You only need common sense.
That guide is a joke, and reliance upon it demonstrates an unfamiliarity with the actual story. Hell, it even says that Yumichika's unreleased zanpakuto is a sickle - utterly laughable.

[Shaehl]

The attack Hollow Ichigo used isn't the same as his Shikai ability. They are similar only in the fact that they are energy based, otherwise they are nearly completely different. Kuroi Getsuga is black, easier to manipulate (Hollow Ichigo exerts much more control over them, almost like a whip at some times.), has a snake-like form (they're all squiglly instead of a simple straight-edge blast, which makes dodging much harder) and seems much more solid. I think it is either an upgrade or a new attack all together.

[Nood]

The attack Hollow Ichigo used isn't the same as his Shikai ability. They are similar only in the fact that they are energy based, otherwise they are nearly completely different. Kuroi Getsuga is black, easier to manipulate (Hollow Ichigo exerts much more control over them, almost like a whip at some times.), has a snake-like form (they're all squiglly instead of a simple straight-edge blast, which makes dodging much harder) and seems much more solid. I think it is either an upgrade or a new attack all together.

Its probably an Upgrade. Thus its the same attack.
The whip like thing was probably because Hollow Ichigos "fighting style" or idonno what to call it.
As i said, its probably condensed, thus much eaisly controllable, more powerful, and smaller.
But still, nobody said that its name is Kuroi Getsuga.
Byakuya said that ebcause he saw a Black Getsuga Tenshou.
Even if it was the name, he could not know it.

[Zangetsu Tensa]

Its probably an Upgrade. Thus its the same attack.
No, this is not true. Upgrading something to something else changes it, it's as simple as that. Especially considering all the differences between the two attacks, it's clear that Kuroi Getsuga (if that indeed turns out to be its canonical name) is a whole different thing from Getsuga Tenshou.

[animalistic]

nood and tensa, your either both wrong or both right, becuz therez no such thing as a bankai which cant use shikai ability cuz it all depends on the bankai itself and there are many different bankaiz, its not a rule that a bankai cant use the shikai ability, however ichigo never used getsuga tenshou while in bankai, and when he fought byakuyaz ultimate attack he just put all of his reiatsu into zangetsu nuthin more(he said it himself!!), plus if he was gonna use getsuga tenshou, dont you think that he wouldve just shot it from far away? it would be much easier and safer

[lordoftheleech]

yo nood.you got summat wrong,man.

both kuroi getsuga AND getsuga tenshou are condensed and amplified reiatsu turned into pure energy.didnt you hear what ichigo said when he just released one blast of getsuga tenshou?he said it was a condensed form.so assuming kuroi getsuga is a more powerful form of getsuga tenshou,they would both be condensed.of course,ichigo didnt say squat about the new attack,he was beating the living daylights outta byakuya.also coz it was acctually hollow ichigo who used kuroi getsuga.it could mean that ichigo has not mastered this,while the hollow ichigo,who is acctually part of zangetsu,has full mastery over this new ability.a completely new one from his shikai form.also,ichigo has not used getsuga tenshou while zangetsu is in bankai form.

AND.

senbonzakura splitting into many little blades is the shikai form,not an ability.well said,Zangetsu Tensa.senbonzakura kageyoshi is an amplification of the shikai form,which no one said was illegal.that is also a form,not an ability.senkei(sp?)is an ability.releasing bankai AINT.

[DKzM0mA]

Well than.
I tell you. Ichigo saw Byakuya's Imperial sword, and said that he cant come up with anything that amazing, Zangetsu only taught him Getsuga Tenshou, so its COMMON SENSE that he can only use that.

No, the last attack was not getsuga tenshou. When Ichigo was fighting Kenpachi, in the final attack, was that Getsuga tenshou? NO All he did was put all his remaining reiatsu in one final attack. Ichigo did the same here. He put all of his energy in one last attack, and struck. Byakuya, even showed us in his memory, Icchigo just stabbed his sword through Byakuya's blade, showing that is was not Getsuga Tenshou.

[Shadowalker]

Getsuga Tenshou IS an ability, if it wasnt we'd see tons of other people using it in shikai AND bankai, they dont, so its purely an ABILITY ichigo has! I dont know how you can refute this, By the way, Yumichika's unreleased zanpakuto IS a sickle, Maybe not one, But multiple ones. Look it up.

[Sandal Hat]

Ichigo may have only mastered getsuga tenshou but the Hollow Ichigo is what used Kuroi getsuga. Also, in the flashback it shows how Ichigo beat Byakuya and did that look like a getsuga tenshou?

@Shadowalker- First, I don't think anybody is doubting that Getsuga tenshou is an ability rather, if Kuroi Getsuga is one. Also, you are the one needing to do more research and not trusting guides done half-assed. In the anime and manga it clearly shows Yumichika walking around with a sword.

[Yachiru_chan]

I don't know if they are both Getsuga tenshous. Much of Ichigo's ability seems to rely on his insanse reiratsu and his ability to put it to various applications. It could just be him using a lot of spirit force.

[T_Ichigo]

yo nood.you got summat wrong,man.

both kuroi getsuga AND getsuga tenshou are condensed and amplified reiatsu turned into pure energy.didnt you hear what ichigo said when he just released one blast of getsuga tenshou?he said it was a condensed form.so assuming kuroi getsuga is a more powerful form of getsuga tenshou,they would both be condensed.of course,ichigo didnt say squat about the new attack,he was beating the living daylights outta byakuya.also coz it was acctually hollow ichigo who used kuroi getsuga.it could mean that ichigo has not mastered this,while the hollow ichigo,who is acctually part of zangetsu,has full mastery over this new ability.a completely new one from his shikai form.also,ichigo has not used getsuga tenshou while zangetsu is in bankai form.

AND.

senbonzakura splitting into many little blades is the shikai form,not an ability.well said,Zangetsu Tensa.senbonzakura kageyoshi is an amplification of the shikai form,which no one said was illegal.that is also a form,not an ability.senkei(sp?)is an ability.releasing bankai AINT.

Senkei is not an ability .. senkei is a part of the name that describes the true form of byakuya's bankai .. he's a genius that's why he has a "primitive form" of bankai, senbonzakura kageyoshi... senkei is just his true form not an ability, senkei senbonzakura kageyoshi has an ability and Byakuya explained what it did to Ichigo. But on the other hand, shukei hakureiken is an ability ..
And apropos of getsuga tenshou and kuroi getsuga .. they've similarities but they're not the same. Zangetsu only teached Ichigo getsuga tenshou because he's not ready for the training of other amazing skillz ... I mean, for the first time Ichigo used getsuga tenshou was on the training with Urahara, but Zangetsu didn't learned him the skill because he knew that Ichigo wasn't ready, and I think you guys know why. And don't forget that Ichigo is still a new bankai holder which imply that he has a lot of skillz to learn. "hollow-Ichigo" is strong because he's a part of Zangetsu as you guys said, that means that he has more experience than Ichigo when it's about Zangetsu .. for that reason I'm not astonished that he used kuroi getsuga, an ability of Tensa zangetsu, NOT Zangetsu. I think that Byakuya was surprised because he hasn't seen such an ability like that, and I don't think that it's because of the colour .. =/, Ichigo's reiatsu was black lol, Byakuya wasn't chocked "Omg, his reiatsu is black! I've never seen any black reiatsu in my whole life." I think that Kuroi getsuga had a wonderful speed and destructive power, Byakuya wasn't able to do anything while "hollow-Ichigo" was attacking him .. which imply that kuroi getsuga had a great speed. Byakuya was like "Kuroi getsuga !" and not "a kuroi getsuga?!" (a black getsuga?!), and this means that he wasn't surprised by the the colour .. instead he said"kuroi getsuga!" and this makes me think that he has earlier seen an ability which has likenesses with kuroi getsuga, used by an another person ( maybe a hollow), but of course I'm not sure.

[Ethanol]

That actually helps lead me into a question I've been thinking while reading this thread.

Byakura's Bankai...is the true form the one with the thousand swords coming up from the ground that he uses on Renji, etc. or is it the last one where the swords are all over and he calls them at will?

[T_Ichigo]

The one that he used on Renji is not the true form, senkei is the true form and he even said it in anime ..

[Shadowalker]

Getsuga Tenshou IS an ability, if it wasnt we'd see tons of other people using it in shikai AND bankai, they dont, so its purely an ABILITY ichigo has! I dont know how you can refute this, By the way, Yumichika's unreleased zanpakuto IS a sickle, Maybe not one, But multiple ones. Look it up.


My mistake i ment Yumichika's RELEASED zanpakuto is a sickle. I have to read more carfully.

Also If were talking about Kuroi getsuga then yes its an ability, Where as Getsuga Tenshou is a stright cannon like shot, Kuroi getsuga isnt, If you watch him use it, It moves like a snake, I think someone else said that before.

[Nood]

yeah it moves like a snake, also hollow ichigo hands moves like a snake, probably he has no bones, and everytime he moves a white background appears.

[Ethanol]

The one that he used on Renji is not the true form, senkei is the true form and he even said it in anime ..

Ah ok...thanks for clearing that up. I missed that line when I was watching it.

[Polygon]

correct me if I'm wrong, but I always hought that byakuya's white final form was a kidoh spll?

[DMC]

correct me if I'm wrong, but I always hought that byakuya's white final form was a kidoh spll?

As far as i know, its an ability or technique.

[jonat3]

As far as i know, its an ability or technique.

The anime was abit clearer on the exact nature of this technique. Byakuya real bankai form is a thousand swords. His third and last form combines all those thousand swords into a single sword.

[KenpachiW/Bankai]

i would say it was one of zangetsus attacks but byakuya knew its name so that kind of throws me off
im wonderin about that too how did byakuya no the name of ichigos bankais attack?