Controversial Anime "Documentary"

[Kabane]

YouTube - Anime Fansub Documentary PART 1


Discuss. (watch ALL 5 PARTS)


I'll talk more tomorrow, but I believe it's contains both truth and ignorance.

[Kenta]

I guess this is from RC.

Meh, subbers can do whatever they want. Why nitpick on 'professionalism' when this is just a free service? And then everyone has their own perspective on what professionalism is, the debate will just be endless.

Bottom line, just appreciate what we're given. As long as it's not troll subs with immature comments or dumb internet meme, we should just watch it for what they are, fansubs for zero charge.

People are taking these things for granted and have nothing better to do with their lives.

[TallDarkRandom]

I guess this is from RC.

Meh, subbers can do whatever they want. Why nitpick on 'professionalism' when this is just a free service? And then everyone has their own perspective on what professionalism is, the debate will just be endless.

Bottom line, just appreciate what we're given. As long as it's not troll subs with immature comments or dumb internet meme, we should just watch it for what they are, fansubs for zero charge.

People are taking these things for granted and have nothing better to do with their lives.

:ttgl: Damn straight!

[Guy]

*sighs* I love the cultural notes provided in fansubs; in fact, that's one reason why I prefer fansubs over professional subs. When you watch anime, a FOREIGN production, it is expected that you run into jokes and stuff that you would not understand at home. The cultural notes help clear up confusions. In addition, I would think that when people watch foreign films, they would expect to learn a thing or two from other people's culture. Basically, the fansubbers are promoting Japanese culture in a way; is that such a bad thing? I don't think it is.

Of course, I try to support the professional subs, as that is the only way to support the original artists.

[Princess Gheyfu]

I agree with almost all of the points in the video (such as the subbers being egotistic, cramming too much crap on the screen, taking their subs too litterally, leaving honorifics and other stuff in (that you would only know if you were an anime fan to begin with, not someone trying to get into it)). Other things, I couldn't care less for, and I actually find the subtitling signs and such very helpful, and giving major attacks a bunch of colors,e ffects and such (like Giga Drill Breaker), are useless, but fun to watch.

[Cassie]

2 parts into the video, I couldn't stand the guy any longer.

When it comes to doing things, there's a huge difference between doing something for profit and doing something for free. Fansubbers do their work for free, and it is very unfair to compare them to professional translators who get paid to do their jobs. I'm sure that most fansubbers would love to have the jobs that professional translators have. A relevant analogy I can give would be comparing fansubbing to GFX. The GFXers' works should not be compared to that of professionals because they're not professionals. It's only right that they put their own style on it because it is their own work.

Get me free DVDs and I'll gladly take them over fansubs. Until then, those people should keep their mouths shut.

BTW, the guy in the video has a really really really annoying expressionless voice.

[SaberBlade]

What I disagree with:

I have to disagree with is when translations are inserted to translate things written in japanese. Using the video as an example, there was the clips of the grave, the Infirmary sign, the police station, the shop windows, the blackboard and even the garbage can.

It's things like this when make it a bit easier for me to understand what's going on as although it may seem like a small and insignificant thing, for me it can make the difference when it comes to knowing what is going on (depending on the situation) or at least where they are going.

The grammar issue, for the most part I didn't have a problem with it. In fact, I prefered the fansubs over his own during that part. I would like things to be translated properly, but my biggest problem is more along the lines of translation only certain parts and leaving others japanese. But when he did his grammar corrections, I sort of had the feeling that what the characters were trying to say was being lost in translation. It wasn't about being accurate, but just saying something that sounds right.

In a way I can sort of understand what a character means when they are shocked and say "I.... I....., You!" but translating that into something like "How could you" (just something I made up, I have no idea if it's actually something that would fit into the scene) completely changes the characters state of mind about what's happened. Even when he threw in the word bastard, although it may have been a joke, completely changes the context of what is going on (although I will admit that I think dattebayo has thrown in a few swear words here and there when they weren't supposed to be there).

---

What I agree with;

I do agree with is stuff like opening titles. I watch fansubs because I don't know japanese, so why do I need japanese lyrics and the japanese lyrics in romanji? Another thing I would agree on is the randomness of japanese words in the translation. I do think that stuff like Shinigami should be translated as Death God, I'd rather see attack names or words with special meaning translated into english without having to pause the video, read any notes at the top of the screen or just pause the video to see if I can remember what it means from previous episodes. To me it's very annoying having a big action sequence going on and having to constantly pause the screen because everything is moving so fast, yet the main subtitles i'm focused on are in japanese and I need to read different parts of the screen just to find out what the attacks are. This can be very annoying in Naruto for example when new characters with new jutsu have to be added to the top of the screen further distracting me. After a while the main attack of the characters you recognise but for the most part it's very annoying no matter what the anime is.

I think that after a while you do pick up some very, very basic understanding of what the word means, especially if it's explained once and used very often so you can't forget it. That's why I don't have a problem with suffix's. I've watched enough fansubs to pick up an understanding of those, but to me i'd still rather have the screen say big brother as opposed to Nii-san but I do think it's very lazy to just leave out these translations and expect people to know them every time they watch a show. I would rather have fansubs say Professor Iruka as opposed to Iruka-sensei (Teacher Iruka could work), or Captain Aizen rather than Aizen-Taicho.

I can understand where the fansubbers are coming from, as official/professional translations have gotten a lot of slack for creating "Believe it". Kon for example saying onee-nee-san (or something like, I can't remember) when talking to Rukia would be out of place if the subtitles said anything other than "Big Sister" (or something to that extent) so rather than coming up with something new, they just leave it in japanese. In the dub it's something that wouldn't be out of place if he shouted "Rukia" but since we'd actually hear him shout something different it would seem out of place in subs. While it's understandable, it's also what this documentary is talking about because it's not exactly being translated but the viewers are instead expected to understand what it means. Anime isn't the best way to learn how to speak a language, so leaving japanese words in doesn't help and there have been animes i've seen where i've been completely lost because a lot of the stuff wasn't translated or explained.

When it comes to fansubbing though, I will admit that things have gotten more complicated. I remember watching subbed anime years ago and having yellow or white subs with a black outline. Now it's all glitzy and fancy and I have noticed fansub groups whoring their tags over the intro (but I do believe that adding the names of the fansubbers into the japanese credits is very clever and I have no problems with that). It's all very distracting and maybe people do want their fansubs to look better but in the end it's the quality of the sub that gets the attention and not the text.

But in the end, the fansubbers have to do things their own way. It's their time, their resources and even their money at times (server bills and what not) so it's really up to them. If they wanted to be professional, then they could just wait a few years before releasing anything new, doing a half assed translation as not to offend anyone and then edit the footage just so people don't complain.

[nx6]

Boo. I posted this in the anime industry thread already. :(

Oh, well. I'll watch it now so I can formulate an opinion.

[Mavvy]

Fansubbing is a free service and I'm thankful to all the people who take the time to translate anime.

As long as the translator's notes aren't history lessons but adds to my understanding of what is going on in the scene or helps me understand a pun or joke, then translator's notes are fine with me. But I do have to admit its annoying if I have to pause every 30 seconds to read translator notes that aren't even important enough to mention.

For those that complain about fansubbing, they should just watch the dubs that come out on adult swim and cartoon network like every other anime does.

[nx6]

Wow, seems like this guy really cherry picked the worst of the speed subbers for most of his examples, although I did recognize the series/fansub group for a handful of his clips. But I do agree with quite a few of his points. Honorifics don't get translated often enough. And the way attacks are left untranslated in Bleach has always bugged me. But not as much as phrases like "that woman" or when someone is being told that "(their name) is (their name) and nobody else".

giving major attacks a bunch of colors, effects and such (like Giga Drill Breaker), are useless, but fun to watch.
Effects are okay if they are used sparingly (Black Order's effects on attacks in TTGL are used in moderation) or to enhance the subtitles themselves (a.f.k's italicizing speech spoken in a character's head in MoHS), but otherwise I think they're just oversize subtitles. I do prefer it when signs are subtitled on the actual sign. This is one thing that is clearly superior to the "official" way of doing it (at bottom of screen in quotes). It's really not that unbelievable that a sign would have dual languages on it, and it's easier to know what text goes with what sign when it's right next to the Japanese in a similar text style and color.

If people are really bothered that much by SubStation Alpha subtitling, they could seek out a fansub by a group doing MKVs. Some include a plain SRT version with the flashier ASS/SSA.

When it comes to doing things, there's a huge difference between doing something for profit and doing something for free. Fansubbers do their work for free, and it is very unfair to compare them to professional translators who get paid to do their jobs. I'm sure that most fansubbers would love to have the jobs that professional translators have.
It's also noteworthy that fansubbers are doing the job precisely because the professionals aren't. This isn't about fansubbers pissing all over the workmanship of the professional translator (like this guy would have you believe), it's about fulfilling a demand for an English translation of a show that does not exist.

A relevant analogy I can give would be comparing fansubbing to GFX. The GFXers' works should not be compared to that of professionals because they're not professionals.Is that why we have a "professional" GFXer class? :winking56

Get me free DVDs and I'll gladly take them over fansubs. Until then, those people should keep their mouths shut.Doesn't even have to be a DVD for me. Just a free subtitled download that occurs a reasonable amount of time after the original broadcast (like before the next episode airs), even distributed over a P2P or other connection where I give bandwidth back.

As long as the translator's notes aren't history lessons but adds to my understanding of what is going on in the scene or helps me understand a pun or joke, then translator's notes are fine with me. But I do have to admit its annoying if I have to pause every 30 seconds to read translator notes that aren't even important enough to mention.
I'm just annoyed when they flash them on screen so fast I have to now back up and replay so I can pause when they appear. It would be better if they just left them on screen a bit longer so one could actually read them quickly.

Oh, yeah Sayonara Zetsubo Sensei = reeallly stupid example. I'm curious what he considers a "professional subtitling job" of that series without leaving 3/4 of the show untranslated.

Also, somewhat ironic using Speed Grapher near the end. I'm watching it on DVD now and this is a show where they completely change the opening and the many of the episode titles were changed from the Japanese version. Where's the professionalism in that? I watch anime to see it the way the original creators intended, not how some licensor thinks it should have been. He does get a point for his imitation of Shinsen's treatment of the title screen. Their name was way too big compared to the show title.