Tosen Kaname vs. Kuchiki Byakuya[Manga Spoilers]

[SenpaiRetsu]

This is a tale of two hax bankai's here.

SKY(Senbonzakura Kageyoshi): Byakuya's bankai, named Senbonzakura Kageyoshi (千本桜景厳, Senbonzakura Kageyoshi? literally "Vibrant Display of a Thousand Cherry Blossoms"), is essentially a much larger version of Senbonzakura's shikai. To activate it, Byakuya drops his sword. The sword passes through the ground and two rows of giant blades rise up from the ground. These then scatter into millions of tiny blades. The number of blades is great enough that Byakuya can use them for defense and offense at the same time. He commonly forms them into large masses of blades to crush opponents.[13][14] Like with his shikai, its attack is triggered with the phrase "scatter".

Byakuya's bankai has several forms, achieved by arranging the blades in different patterns. They are activated by saying the name of the technique followed by the name of his bankai. Each form presents a different advantage, such as increasing offense at the expense of defense.

Byakuya's attack form is "massacre scene" (殲景, senkei?, Viz: "annihilate"), which unites the scattered petals into complete swords that form four rows around Byakuya and his opponent. In this form, Byakuya abandons the defense potential of his many blades and concentrates on killing the enemy. While Byakuya can control these swords as he does his regular blades, he usually attacks with just one in hand. He remarks in his battle with Ichigo that he normally only shows senkei to those he has sworn to "kill by his own hand", Ichigo being the second to see this.[15] After immobilizing an opponent, he can call in the other blades to hit them while they're trapped. He can also use all the blades at once for one immensely powerful strike.

To overwhelm the defense of an opponent, Byakuya can use "pivotal scene" (吭景, gōkei?). This aligns every blade in a spherical formation around his opponent, which then collapses into them from every possible angle, leaving no blind spots and no chance to escape.[16]

Finally, when Byakuya is weakened, he can use "final scene" (終景, shūkei?, Viz: "last sight"). This condenses every one of his blades into a single sword, drastically increasing its cutting power. The blade appears bright white and its aura takes the form of a bird, earning it the name "white imperial sword" (白帝剣, hakuteiken?, Viz: "white emperor sword"). Byakuya also grows pure white wings and a halo-like circle in the back, both made of spiritual power.[17]
SDB(Sensory Deprivation Bankai):Suzumushi's bankai, named Enma Kōrogi (閻魔蟋蟀, Enma Kōrogi? lit. Enma Cricket; Viz: Field Cricket),[4] creates a large, black dome centered at Tōsen's location and anchored to the ground with ten rings. Anyone within the dome loses the ability to sense anything around them, what Tōsen called Mumyō (無明, Mumyō? lit. ignorance) which in the anime is represented by the characters under its effect being in black and white, while anyone currently in the dome but not suffering Suzumushi's effect being in color. The only sense they retain is that of touch. The weakness of this technique is that which makes Tōsen immune to it: Suzumushi itself. Anything touching Suzumushi's hilt is immune to the dome's effects, so anyone able to grab Suzumushi recovers their senses as was shown in his fight with Kenpachi Zaraki.


Before bankai Byakuya seems to easily beat Tosen, he's faster, stronger, and has a better swordsman.

However in HM he easily chopped off grimmjaw's arm and destoryed with a mid level kidou spell. we've never seen Byakuya do anything like that to an opponent as strong as grimmjaw.

Now SDB vs. SKY is another story...... SKY is hax because he can be used for offense and defense and it cannot be dodged. However SDB is even more hax when seen in action because it leaves you basically defenseless. As we saw in the Pendulum arc. Tosen was not captain class himself but with his bankai he could EASILY take out multiple captain class opponents.

So if SKY is activated and SDB is activated Tosen is still defenseless against SKY but Byakuya wouldn't be able to locate Tosen so in a way he'd be defenseless. Also there is the pyschological effect of having all of your senses(except touch) taken away. people can go mad in SDC(sensory deprivation chambers) the same could happen in his bankai. it could lead people to panic and lose their resolve.

I think if Byakuya is smart he could take this. if he uses half of his petals as a defensive shield around him while sending the other half in all directions randomly there is a good chance is will shred the dome to pieces if it's an actually physical object and he will hit Tosen.

My money goes on Byakuya.

[Undying]

We cannot conclude that Tousen was using bankai during the Pendulum chapters; his shikai has a sensual knock-out ability, such as he used against Ishida. It could have been that. Also, if he had bankai he would be captain class.

Now then. Enma Korougi relies on two things: surprise and fear of the dark. Once a person is no longer shocked at the fact they cannot see/hear/taste/smell anything, they can overcome their surprise. The problem is about the fear part: a person who is suddenly out of senses will be shocked and most of the times terrified because of their sudden lack of, well, senses.

Zaraki was able to overcome it because of his adrenaline, which suppressed the effects of Enma Korougi and allowed him to continue moving at normal speeds, while normally a person who is afraid would be hesitant to move - if only by half a step. That is Tousen's speed.

And I agree that in the event Byakuya does not have his bankai he would be most likely defeat, since even though he most likely doesn't fear death much, he would have a slight hesitation in his movements, which in turn would cause him to lose.

BUT. Since we're talking his bankai here, a bankai that can attack and defend at the same time in every direction, Tousen loses his advantage. He will have to somehow bypass SKY's defense and offense, and that is, as far as we know, impossible.

So I believe Byakuya can win this, provided of course that the sensual knock out doesn't hamper his control over his bankai. If it does, Tousen has too many advantages and will most likely win.

Of course, we've no idea how much Byakuya would really be affected, so we can only speculate. For the moment, I'll keep my fanboy pride by saying Byakuya wins.

[Sendivoge]

If he were able to use enma kourogi, i don't think Byakuya would be able to reason out a good attack against him. I can't see Byakuya winning while robbed of his senses (lol... sensual knock-out sounds ambiguous). We don't know a hell of a lot about Tousen himself... But I'd be more interested in knowing if there are other ways to escape/destroy enma kourogi than we've seen.

Without senses (including spiritual, excluding touch) controlling SKY might be a problem. I'm not familiar with how he controls it and knows where it is, but i would have assumed there was a spiritual aspect to it. Being left only with touch, i'm curious as to whether he'd be able to control it, and if he could, whether he'd know where his blades are (ie: whether he can avoid slicing himself as much as he does Tousen).

Tousen has a very dangerous looking shikai (talking about the one he used on kenpachi) which would do a lot of damage if Byakuya were hit. The manga doesn't really show how fast it shoots downwards... but if it's anything like the anime, it would be difficult to dodge if you weren't anticipating the need to flee the area completely. Byakuya is very fast though, so dodging it may not be an issue.

Before enma kourogi, i think Byakuya would have a clear advantage. If Undying is correct in opening up the possibility that Tousen used his shikai against the vaizards before quickly taking them out, Byakuya will have a lot more on his plate before going bankai. After they've gone bankai, i think Tousen's more likely to take the victory (even if it's just for taking advantage of Byakuya's initial confusion). Kenpachi vs Tousen was simply a good matchup imo, as is often the case.

If the poll had perhaps another 6 or so more specific options, i might be able pick more easily.

We cannot conclude that Tousen was using bankai during the Pendulum chapters; his shikai has a sensual knock-out ability, such as he used against Ishida. It could have been that. Also, if he had bankai he would be captain class.
It looked to me that they were plunged into darkness, after which, we see the blackness breaking apart in the background of p15. This is all too similar to what we saw in the last fights with Kenpachi. Surely that must be his bankai. As far as i'm aware, the shikai has an effect on people's hearing- rendering them unconscious. I didn't really get the impression that's what was happening. :hmm:

The only major uncertainty i saw was the possibility that Love could hear the others... which i guess could be explained by Tousen not having mastered his bankai. But it still seems far from his shikai we saw againt ishida.

[diamondedge]

Kenpachi's sense of touch was intact while tousen was zergim him with Korogi.
keep in mind that korogi doesn't damage opponent at all, when Kenpachi was there senseless Tousen was marching at him with his unreleased sword, with no advanced swordsmanship at all.

As long as Byakuya is aware of himself and can hold a sword I don't see him loosing. Byakuya can simply shield himself with SKY, and if Tousen attempts anything, he gets diced to pieces by shield wall of SKY. Even if he tries kidou - SKY was able to hold GT spam (which is spirit force, just like kidou), so as long as Byakuya can hold his defense, and that should be for quite some time, since SKY is pretty much limitless, Tousen can't get to him.

On the other hand, Byakuya can still drop Goukei and shield himself with kidou like he did Rukia when he finished off Zomari. I don't see how Tousen is to survive this without any defense mechanism, since AoE of Goukei is quite something.

That scene with Grimmjow having his arm cut off proves nothing - they were on the same side and not even fighting. If I wait on a tree and dump a rock on someone that is otherwise 10 times stronger than me and take him out, that doesn't make me any stronger, or better.

In shikai this isn't even a battle, Byakuya slaughters Tousen.

While bankai could be irritating, I believe Byakuya possesses enough abilities to hold his own against bankai Tousen - abilities that don't require moving, seeing, hearing, or smelling. Only self awareness, and we're seen that this is something that Enma Korogi doesn't affect. It would take some time, that's a fact, but as we've seen Byakuya won't be affected much, even if he is actually injured and Tousen sux at hitting anything with sword.

So, Bykauya wins.

[The sunlight]

Unless tosen decides to end things quickly and kill byakuya before he realizes whats happening.

[Gingermadman]

I'm going to say tousen , that is of course if he can get to Bankai.

I really don't see how Byakuya can win if it comes to Bankai, it really is a hax'd bankai. Zaraki only won because he is Zaraki , someone who doesn't fear and only feels excitement and was able to find a way out.

Of course if Byakuya can get into Bankai first or even keep it to Shikai he slaughters him , i just can't see there being a defence against Enma Kōrogi (not sure if i've got that right) for Byakuya here.

[Sendivoge]

Of course if Byakuya can get into Bankai first or even keep it to Shikai he slaughters him , i just can't see there being a defence against Enma Kōrogi (not sure if i've got that right) for Byakuya here.
'Enma Kōrogi' is correct, but you can also write it as Enma Kourogi which removes the need to copy the 'ō'. The same goes for zanpakutō (zanpakutou), kidō (kidou) etc. :)

I don't know how effective Tousen's Nake shikai would be against Byakuya. Tousen expected Ishida to be rendered unconscious, but Ishida was very weak at the time.

[Jay3205]

I don't Byakuya winning against Tousen's bankai. Tousen could use the moment of confusion/surprise of initiating his bankai to quickly end the battle, or he could possibly use kidou to attack from a safe range (if he has it, which he does have some power in it according to the databook). At the very least, I don't believe Byakuya's bankai petals to be so powerful that he could maintain a decent 360* shield while also maintaining a decent attack on the entire area covered by Tousen's bankai. Due to Tousen's reiatsu-cancelling bankai effect, I doubt Byakuya would know if his defense is broken through, whether he can even hit the opponent, or make precise counter attacks.

[Zanga]

I'm going to say tousen , that is of course if he can get to Bankai.

I really don't see how Byakuya can win if it comes to Bankai, it really is a hax'd bankai. Zaraki only won because he is Zaraki , someone who doesn't fear and only feels excitement and was able to find a way out.

Of course if Byakuya can get into Bankai first or even keep it to Shikai he slaughters him , i just can't see there being a defence against Enma Kōrogi (not sure if i've got that right) for Byakuya here.

Unless Byakuya floods the bankai with a sea of petals I guess.


Also, if Byakuya uses Senkei(can I stress the IF?), would that create a dome within Tousen's dome and cancel the effect of Enma Korougi? It may not capture Tousen within the smaller dome, but it can give Byakuya some reassurance.

[smach]

The fact that Byakuya's shikai and bankai are mostly detatched from him leaves me wondering if they'll really be of much use in a fight like this, where something as crucial as sight has been taken away.

Disregarding that Tousen may have much more skill+strength than shown in SS, I still don't see how Byakuya will manage to beat him.

[ninjabot]

Just out of curiosity, is it ever stated that Tousen's bankai is an alternate dimension, or is it simply the area within the dome acting as a sensory deprivation tank? I know after being wounded severely by Kenpachi, Tousen's bankai popped like a balloon. Is this testament to the durability of Enma Korogi?

If so, simply firing senkei in a 360 degree wave of swords would be enough to perforate the whole of the area, if not shattering it outright. If it only makes holes then I don't think intruding light would be enough for Byakuya to see, but I still can see him breaking free from Enma Korogi based off of pure instinct.

Now, I know that's Kenpachi's shtick, but look at the fight against Leroux. Instantaneously he knew to cut the tendons in his controlled arm and leg inorder to avoid having them controlled. As soon as everything blacks out, assuming Byakuya has released bankai already, he would instinctively do the same thing we would all do in that situation, which is one of 2 things:

1: Cocoon himself with a wall of blades
2: Fire projectiles in every possible direction to avoid being taken from a blindspot

I'm sticking with Byakuya on this one.

[Sin]

The thing is if Byakuya could use sky to feel/sense where tousen is going to be in that stage. IF he can sense it then Byakuya would destroy tousen, if not then tousen will murder Byakuya.

[smach]

How can/would Byakuya use SKY as a 6th sense?

Slitting your wrists takes dragon balls and a heightened sense of arrogance/awesomeness; knowing what to do when all your senses have been eliminated is a different issue altogether.

The fact that SKY/Senkei is detatched from his body is what makes me skeptic on how effective Sebonzakura will be.

But it is also quite possible that he can still control Sebonzakura's detatched forms, and the hope lies in his ability to order the swords to himself in Senkei. He certainly didn't have his eyes on which sword he called out, and his control over the sword(s) is something that doesn't require any type of advanced mechanism. He simply calls it out (not verbally, of course) and it comes to him (vs Ichigo) or goes wherever he wants (vs Renji).

The only issue is what he can do with that, when he can't see, hear, or feel how far away the opponent is, and most likely doesn't have the senses required to know the location of his weapon either (he can't see the pink petals or the swords, he can't hear the noise they make when they move, and most likely can't feel the little breeze or winds that are made when they move around.

But that's also another touchy subject, since it's his sword...meaning it's still a part of him, only detached. So the question here is whether the sword will triumph over the absence of the five senses.

IMO this may actually turn out to be quite an interesting battle to watch, since instinct and endurance are out of the question here. If Tousen doesn't take a decisive shot immediately and Byakuya doesn't go emo and start panicking like the vizards, this would certainly be an exciting fight to witness.

EDIT: Going along with ninjabot's idea, Byakuya could also turn the dome into a whirlwind of flying shrapnel which would definitely land a couple small hits on Tousen, and maybe even manage to rip the dome apart if it turns out to be that weak.

Also, if that technique also helps him determine Tousen's location, Byakuya may be able to finish him off; his own bankai would be his own downfall because it caged him and left him him with little room to escape.

[Tensa Tensho]

I think byakuya wins. He'll take a hit or two while in tousens bankai than just fire senbonzakura everywhere, and shield himself with it as well.

[smach]

I think there may/should also be some kidou that he can use to better his chances, like something to counter Enma Korogi's ability.

[diamondedge]

The thing is if Byakuya could use sky to feel/sense where tousen is going to be in that stage. IF he can sense it then Byakuya would destroy tousen, if not then tousen will murder Byakuya.
As noted, EK does not effect one's mind, and Byakuya can control SKY with mind alone. :)

[Jay3205]

^^Well, Byakuya's ability to control his bankai presumably comes from his spirit power/reiatsu, and EK suppresses his ability to sense spirit force. Since no shinigami (that I know of) uses any non-spirit-based powers, Byakuya would presumably control his bankai through some sort of spirit sensing.

[JaguarX]

The only way that Byakkuya could win this is if he were to never allow Tousen to go into EK bankai. Tousen's bankai is pretty hax in suppressing the opponent's spirit sense, so if Byakkuya gets caught, he would not be able to control his bankai, leaving him defenseless against Tousen's kidou attacks or fast slice attacks (which can cut Grimmjow's arm with ease).

Because Byakkuya seems to have a bit more battle experience, I would assume he would bring Tousen alot of damage before Tousen gets to Bankai, but once that happens, Byakkuya would lose. So i vote that Tousen would barely escape with his life (because he would not have released his Bankai yet, if Byakkuya attempts to prevent that), but would win immediately once he gets his Bankai off.

Kenpachi is insane and has no fear, which is why he was able to defeat that bankai. Even then, he still took alot of blows that I'm pretty sure Byakkuya would have not strategically dodged the way Kenpachi did. (Kenpachi battle and swords experience >>> Byakkuya's)

[captainmawaluigi]

You guys are giving Ken to much credit in that fight, the only reason Ken won, was cuz Tousen held in his power, he had no intention of killing Kenpachi. That would have put unneccessary attention on him and that would ruin his goals, for what Aizen had planned. And Ken did not DODGE an attack, to dodge an attack is to anticipate it and then not get attacked. All Ken did was react on battle instinct, not even that, just pure instinct alone. If you are getting poked with a forked, you automatically jump the other way.....you dont jump into the pain. Tousen was not going for the kill, all he did was slice his shoulder and sides...we all kno that in bleach that makes for cool blood splattering effects, u just wont die unless your head gets cut off. Even then, if your resolve is sharp enough, you could put it together again( I mean damn....Ichigo and Rukia have gotten stabbed in the chest about 5 times and are still kicking)

Secondly, you are forgetting that byakuya, is well, byakuya. With a kidou spell, he could easily summon light into the darkness. IF that doesnt work, he could also easily escape the dome or destroy it. Remember, its six rings that encase an area in darkness, its not some limitless field. A few attacks into space, would blow a hole into the bankai, and thus open it up. Now, as for any other attack Tousen could throw at him, byakuya could easily defend with his bankai. No need for the scene of a massacre, just those pedals would defeat Tousens vibrating shards of swords

[Sendivoge]

You guys are giving Ken to much credit in that fight, the only reason Ken won, was cuz Tousen held in his power, he had no intention of killing Kenpachi. That would have put unneccessary attention on him and that would ruin his goals, for what Aizen had planned.
I still think Tousen intended to defeat Kenpachi. Tousen's thoughts and comments during the fight:

At the last moment he moves to prevent my sword from striking a vital spot.

You are too dangerous Zaraki Kenpachi! Letting you live, is way too dangerous!

[Tousen impales kenpachi] He didn't dodge... No... he couldn't... In his joy of this meaningless bloodshed... he got careless

[Kenpachi grabs Tousen's hand and says hello] I'mpossible! [Tousen is slashed badly]

Damn... I can't lose... I... won't lose to you... no matter what!! [Tousen's sword is blocked before it makes contact with Kenpachi, then he's slashed and the bankai explodes]

Not yet... It's not over yet...!!
I will... stop you... I swore on my justice that i will stop you no matter what! [Tousen tries to stab Kenpachi from behind, but fails]

The parts in red are the parts when kenpachi couldn't possibly know what Tousen is saying/thinking. Not that i'm saying kenpachi could hear Tousen's thoughts outside the bankai.

And Ken did not DODGE an attack, to dodge an attack is to anticipate it and then not get attacked. All Ken did was react on battle instinct, not even that, just pure instinct alone. If you are getting poked with a forked, you automatically jump the other way.....you dont jump into the pain.
Dodge doesn't mean you have to take absolutely no damage by avoiding an attack. Kenpachi is dodging vital attacks here. It's sounds like you're suggesting it's an involuntary reflex action that would occur exactly the same with anyone, which this wasn't. Kenpachi was consciously dodging the attack as soon as he felt it, then making a counterattack. Tousen and Kenpachi both think of it as dodging.

Tousen: His sight, hearing, and sense of smell are all supposed to be useless now... and he shouldn't be able to sense spiritual pressure either... but how can he still dodge!?
He did it again!? At the last moment he moves to prevent my sword from striking a vital spot!!

Kenpachi: Good thing i can still feel my touch... so i can still use my sword. As soon as i feel his sword touching my body... i dodge. That way i won't get any serious injury.

Tousen was not going for the kill, all he did was slice his shoulder and sides...we all kno that in bleach that makes for cool blood splattering effects, u just wont die unless your head gets cut off. Even then, if your resolve is sharp enough, you could put it together again( I mean damn....Ichigo and Rukia have gotten stabbed in the chest about 5 times and are still kicking).
He was also impaled.

Secondly, you are forgetting that byakuya, is well, byakuya. With a kidou spell, he could easily summon light into the darkness.
It removes their senses. It's not merely switching off the light...

IF that doesnt work, he could also easily escape the dome or destroy it. Remember, its six rings that encase an area in darkness, its not some limitless field. A few attacks into space, would blow a hole into the bankai, and thus open it up.
We know it's not limitless, because we can see the walls. What we don't know is how easily it can be destroyed. Thus far we've only seen it destroyed by Tousen, or by kenpachi after grabbing the sword (before it touched him) and striking Tousen well enough that he was prepared to walk away the victor.

[SenpaiRetsu]

I still think Tousen intended to defeat Kenpachi. Tousen's thoughts and comments during the fight:

At the last moment he moves to prevent my sword from striking a vital spot.

You are too dangerous Zaraki Kenpachi! Letting you live, is way too dangerous!

[Tousen impales kenpachi] He didn't dodge... No... he couldn't... In his joy of this meaningless bloodshed... he got careless

[Kenpachi grabs Tousen's hand and says hello] I'mpossible! [Tousen is slashed badly]

Damn... I can't lose... I... won't lose to you... no matter what!! [Tousen's sword is blocked before it makes contact with Kenpachi, then he's slashed and the bankai explodes]

Not yet... It's not over yet...!!
I will... stop you... I swore on my justice that i will stop you no matter what! [Tousen tries to stab Kenpachi from behind, but fails]

The parts in red are the parts when kenpachi couldn't possibly know what Tousen is saying/thinking. Not that i'm saying kenpachi could hear Tousen's thoughts outside the bankai.


Dodge doesn't mean you have to take absolutely no damage by avoiding an attack. Kenpachi is dodging vital attacks here. It's sounds like you're suggesting it's an involuntary reflex action that would occur exactly the same with anyone, which this wasn't. Kenpachi was consciously dodging the attack as soon as he felt it, then making a counterattack. Tousen and Kenpachi both think of it as dodging.

Tousen: His sight, hearing, and sense of smell are all supposed to be useless now... and he shouldn't be able to sense spiritual pressure either... but how can he still dodge!?
He did it again!? At the last moment he moves to prevent my sword from striking a vital spot!!

Kenpachi: Good thing i can still feel my touch... so i can still use my sword. As soon as i feel his sword touching my body... i dodge. That way i won't get any serious injury.


He was also impaled.


It removes their senses. It's not merely switching off the light...


We know it's not limitless, because we can see the walls. What we don't know is how easily it can be destroyed. Thus far we've only seen it destroyed by Tousen, or by kenpachi after grabbing the sword (before it touched him) and striking Tousen well enough that he was prepared to walk away the victor.

i don't know if he was trying to kill him at first. we've seen serious tosen and a tosen who is bragging. just look at the pendulum arc, he was serious then and he wtf pwned half of the current vaizards. all of the current vaizards except hachi. You see how he put the sword straight through kensei. if he was serious he'd have done that to Zaraki. he didn't get serious until too late.

http://img37.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000146/14.jpg


Here is a pic of Tosen not taking care of business and talking about how terrifying it must be to be deprived of all of your senses. Zaraki didn't dodge. The initial impact of his bankai would make it impossible to dodge. At that moment if he was serious he would have decapitated Zaraki but he didn't. he got serious too late.

[Sendivoge]

i don't know if he was trying to kill him at first. we've seen serious tosen and a tosen who is bragging. just look at the pendulum arc, he was serious then and he wtf pwned half of the current vaizards. all of the current vaizards except hachi. You see how he put the sword straight through kensei. if he was serious he'd have done that to Zaraki. he didn't get serious until too late.

http://img37.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000146/14.jpg


Here is a pic of Tosen not taking care of business and talking about how terrifying it must be to be deprived of all of your senses. Zaraki didn't dodge. The initial impact of his bankai would make it impossible to dodge. At that moment if he was serious he would have decapitated Zaraki but he didn't. he got serious too late.
He put the sword straight through Kenpachi too. I don't think it would have been any more impressive, had he done it at the beginning of the fight like he did with Kensei.

Had Tousen not been toying with Kenpachi for the first two strikes, i don't know what would have occurred. It didn't happen. If anything, I think Tousen would have an infinitely greater chance of immediately beheading Byakuya than kenpachi.

But it doesn't sound like you're arguing with Tousen's intention to defeat kenpachi in the overall fight anyway. :hmm:

[KholdStare]

As noted, EK does not effect one's mind, and Byakuya can control SKY with mind alone. :)

Indeed, but if Byakuya cannot see anything, how can he target Tousen with his mind alone? SKY requires other senses to be used; Byakuya needs to see where his opponent is.

[captainmawaluigi]

He put the sword straight through Kenpachi too. I don't think it would have been any more impressive, had he done it at the beginning of the fight like he did with Kensei.

Had Tousen not been toying with Kenpachi for the first two strikes, i don't know what would have occurred. It didn't happen. If anything, I think Tousen would have an infinitely greater chance of immediately beheading Byakuya than kenpachi.

But it doesn't sound like you're arguing with Tousen's intention to defeat kenpachi in the overall fight anyway. :hmm:

Here is what Im saying. Tousen was...TALKIN TO HIMSELF. Kenpachi was...TALKING TO HIMSELF. If you felt a sword cutting you, but could not see, yes you would react and move so it could not impale you, thats not that deep buddy.

I mean, he did not DODGE the attack as in, anticipate it, because he could not. He just prevented himself from being killed.

and yes, I dont think Tousen had any intent to kill. As you can see, we saw Tousen later...how he slices people in 1 hit and messes them up real bad. And at that time, we dont know if that was his own SS or if he even attained bankai by then.

I do feel strongly that he DID NOT kill Kenpaci as purpose, not because he couldnt, but because it would ruin the plan. (Aien 'died' and Ken died) 2 captain deaths would have prevented the plan of going to HM from working, or at least made it harder to get Rukia alone like that.

Secondly, Byakuya doesnt have to See Tousen. Just send out attacks in Random directions, Im sure he can 'feel' his own sword (you retain the sense of touch) and thus, if some petals touched Tousen, he would know his location, and if some petals cut through that bankai dome, he would see light and know to get out throuh that area.

[smach]

1) Everything was in chaos at that moment...any deaths would've been reported AFTER the departure of Aizen's trio.

2) Ken was in contact with Tousen's hand+sword...sure, we can speculate about Tousen being located by SKY, but that's barely enough to go with IMO.