Noob---Vaizard???

[kt2005]

Someone please explain to me:
Vaizard are ichigo, Hirako and the girl with the sword over the shoulder. They are part shinigami and part hollows, right? And they are different from the arrancars of Aizen.

Before when reading chapter 185-186 I thought that two vaizard( Hirako and the girl) are sent by Aizen to recuit Ichigo, but now I don't see Aizen and the vastroode mention them at all. So vaizards are from a different group?!

If that's true, then there are 3 forces : shinigami (SS + ichigo), vaizard group and Aizen army. I think may be these two vaizards will come and help ichigo and hitsugaya fight these arrancars.

[GaryDAI]

The Vaizards aren't with Aizen. They are not liked by Soul Society though. They were originally shinigami who gained hollow powers. The Vaizards are trying to recruit Ichigo so he can learn to control his hollow side.

The Arrancars are part of Aizen's group. They are hollows who have gained shinigami powers. They have holes in their body, like a hollow would. They look like a human though.

Right now it's Soul Society vs. Aizen. I assume the Vaizards will help Soul Society. They don't seem like bad ppl.

[Polygon]

Arrancars: Hollows that have removed their masks and gained some shinigami atributties. They will alwayshave a piece of their mask on their face. The hole in their chest still remaains. The doninant trait in them is the hollows. So basiclly they re hollows with shiigami abilities. Though it seems they lack bankai. And their release is nothing more then there seemingly "hollow-bodies". Right now it looks like they are all under aizens command

Vaizard: Shinigami that have gained hollow atributies. They have masks as weel, but they are hidden. The masks can be matrielized at any time, it seems. While the dominant trait is shinigami they have been known to show some "hollow-ness" From what we've seen a vaizard who can't control his/her hollow may experience "mood-swings" ?Leader is unknown. Aizen is not their leader. Urahra is a possibility as a leader, though this is just speculation.

In short becomeing either one allows you to surpass the limit of a normal soul. and your reitsu also doubles.

[kt2005]

Thank you. I just read chapter 188 again on your MSN Group and understand now. The translation I got last time messed up and it don't have notes. This is the definition I just read, from the talking between Ichigo's dad and Urahata:

Vaizards... Ex-Shinigami who use forbidden techiniques to gain hollow power. No one have any idea where they are or what they plan...
They also said the vizards are preparing for war too, against Aizen army.

---> so the leader is not Urahata
Anyway, I think that Vaizards have special spirit powers (like Ichigo) so they are better than Aizen's arrancars. Vaizards are still in the mistery now, guess the writer want to use them for future fights.

[GaryDAI]

I think Hirako might show up soon. Ichigo is going to get his butt kicked if no one helps him :p

[Ishikawa_Masahiro]

wow i cant believe i didnt realize the difference between vaizards and arrancars...i should read more carefully

[Injektilo]

wow i cant believe i didnt realize the difference between vaizards and arrancars...i should read more carefully

Just another thing I'd like to add: It's likely Ichigo is neither a Vaizard nor an Arrankar, both of those are ultimately imperfect hybrids, they were first either Shinigami or Hollow and then gained traits of the other artificially. Ichigo, on the other hand, became a Hollow and a Shinigami simultaneously. That's speculation of course. I'd also speculate that the sheer power of the Vastoroode was mentioned because it implicates that even Ichigo, a perfect hybrid, could struggle against a hybridized version of one of these guys given the sheer power of the initial being that then empowered itself still further. I'd guess Ichigo's cap of power would be higher than even a Vastoroode Arrankar, but not by much, and they of course, have the benefit of what is likely thousands of years of experience.

[Polygon]

Thank you. I just read chapter 188 again on your MSN Group and understand now. The translation I got last time messed up and it don't have notes. This is the definition I just read, from the talking between Ichigo's dad and Urahata:

Vaizards... Ex-Shinigami who use forbidden techiniques to gain hollow power. No one have any idea where they are or what they plan...
They also said the vizards are preparing for war too, against Aizen army.

---> so the leader is not Urahata
Anyway, I think that Vaizards have special spirit powers (like Ichigo) so they are better than Aizen's arrancars. Vaizards are still in the mistery now, guess the writer want to use them for future fights.

There is no way to say that. He might very well be. In fact out of those we've seen he is the most likley to be one.

And Ichigo is not the perect hybryid. He had shinigami powers before he ever became a vaizrd.

[Sandal Hat]

@Octogon- Ichigo had to gain his shinigami powers back through Shattered Shaft

I don't believe becoming both at the same time or through other methods mean that Ichigo is somehow different. U Can put peanut butter on a loaf of bread first and then put the jellly on it afterwards or you can buy the peanut butter and jelly jars that come already mixed but both mixes both lead to the same thing, a peanut butter and jelly sandwich :)

[Polygon]

@Octogon- Ichigo had to gain his shinigami powers back through Shattered Shaft

I don't believe becoming both at the same time or through other methods mean that Ichigo is somehow different. U Can put peanut butter on a loaf of bread first and then put the jellly on it afterwards or you can buy the peanut butter and jelly jars that come already mixed but both mixes both lead to the same thing, a peanut butter and jelly sandwich :)

He stl had them, they just needed to come out. So in a sence he always had them, he just couldn't use it. his holow was made when his shiigami powers came out.

[Unrefined-Nemesis]

Sandal Hat Is Totally Correct In This Arguement There Is No Further Requirements To Argue About Ichigo And His Hollowself Anymore

[Sir_unforgiven]

i think ichigo will turn out to be more powerful than both the vaizard and arrankaru, and i don't think uruhara is the leader of the vaizards

[Undying]

Try this: Ichigo is neither Vaizard nor Arrancar, he's a Shinigami who has a Hollow whithin him. The reasons why he is neither one of the Hybrids are: Arrancar - Arrancar are Hollows who obtained Shinigami powers, stebelaizing and purifing theire spiritual pressure, but they are Hollows by origin, and Ichigo is no Hollow. Vaizrds - they were Shinigami, true, but they controll the Hollow within them, while Ichigo can only restrain him (and note that the Hollow's prowess is greater than almost any of the Arrancar (logically, HollowIchi can beat the crap put of Ikkaku, Hitsugaya, Rangiku, Renji, Yumichika and Byakuya, and any of those can pose a serious problem for the Arrancar) so to sum it up, Ichigo's just a freak.

[Polygon]

Sandal Hat Is Totally Correct In This Arguement There Is No Further Requirements To Argue About Ichigo And His Hollowself Anymore

How did you conclude this? As far as I know he thinks ichigo isa vaizard. And its obvious as the vaizard said you are the same as me. Implying that he is a vaizard. Ichigo always had shinigami powers, since birth, but they truly surfaced in the pit.

Try this: Ichigo is neither Vaizard nor Arrancar, he's a Shinigami who has a Hollow whithin him. The reasons why he is neither one of the Hybrids are: Arrancar - Arrancar are Hollows who obtained Shinigami powers, stebelaizing and purifing theire spiritual pressure, but they are Hollows by origin, and Ichigo is no Hollow. Vaizrds - they were Shinigami, true, but they controll the Hollow within them, while Ichigo can only restrain him (and note that the Hollow's prowess is greater than almost any of the Arrancar (logically, HollowIchi can beat the crap put of Ikkaku, Hitsugaya, Rangiku, Renji, Yumichika and Byakuya, and any of those can pose a serious problem for the Arrancar) so to sum it up, Ichigo's just a freak.

We can't assume that vaizards can automaticly control their hollows. that doesnt make sense.

[kt2005]

Ichigo is the special one in the story. His Shinigami's and Hollow's powers are "waken up" at the same time when he was in the hole, so he must be more perfect than those hybrid, he just didn't master himself yet. I think he is much like these vaizards, but not the same. Another thing is that his dad is a very strong Shinigami, but he is a living human, that's very special.

----------> the writer made a lot of mysteries and suspense. The best way is just waiting for the explaination from the story.

By the way, Uruhara seems like he doesn't know any more thing about vaizards, as Ichigo's dad knew him for a long time. But who know, its depend on the writers.
--------> keep reading future chapters.

[Ani-Blast]

We can't assume that vaizards can automaticly control their hollows. that doesnt make sense. [/QUOTE]

How not? Sure, the manga hasnt gone far into the situation with the Vaizards, but what does make sense then? I think that the Vaizards can release a hollow side to themselves and deal some serious damage, but then just as easily, retake control of their body. Just a thought.

[Kyouka Suigetsu]

The manga says that they control their hollows with forbidden techniques. This should be enough to show that they just can't automatically control their new power.

[Polygon]

ow not? Sure, the manga hasnt gone far into the situation with the Vaizards, but what does make sense then? I think that the Vaizards can release a hollow side to themselves and deal some serious damage, but then just as easily, retake control of their body. Just a thought.

Of course they can control their hollows. What desn't make sense is being automaticly able to do so. I'm sure its the same concept as knowing a zanpaktous name. Ichigo is clearly a vaizard and he s clearly strggling. he has to learn how to control his hollow.

And I seriously doght that the hollow takes control of the body. That appened to ichigo because he can't control his hollow. since he is the hollow it makes perfect sense that he'll be able to control it perfectly. without resorting to a hollow taking over him.



By the way, Uruhara seems like he doesn't know any more thing about vaizards, as Ichigo's dad knew him for a long time. But who know, its depend on the writers.

The way I see it. All the sighn show that he is the most likley to be the vaizard leader. Plus he has to be able to eep up with the new limit, and being a vaizard would be the perfect way. Either way urahara is gonna be stronger than ichigo until the end.

[Kyouka Suigetsu]

Just a thought but a hollow taking over when you're fighting in a group wouldn't be a good thing. From what we've seen other than the arrancar, they really don't give a damn about who gets injured. If their hollows are anything like Noname then they probably battle just for the hell of it. I'm sure the Vaizards are aware of this.

[Polygon]

Just a thought but a hollow taking over when you're fighting in a group wouldn't be a good thing. From what we've seen other than the arrancar, they really don't give a damn about who gets injured. If their hollows are anything like Noname then they probably battle just for the hell of it. I'm sure the Vaizards are aware of this.


the arrancars are somewhat different because they are there hollows. But I don't think that hollows take over a vaizards body. This only happned to ichigo because he can't control his hollow. Makes sense that the vaizards can control their hollow quite easily.

[Ani-Blast]

ok, so they control their hollow and then the only real way to tell if theyre a vaizard or not, is whether or not they're in possession of a mask. The only way I see this is with little knowledge of EXACTLY HOW these forbidden techniques "do their magic".

[Sandal Hat]

Arrancars also have holes in them and there clothes are all white.

[Unrefined-Nemesis]

How did you conclude this? As far as I know he thinks ichigo isa vaizard. And its obvious as the vaizard said you are the same as me. Implying that he is a vaizard. Ichigo always had shinigami powers, since birth, but they truly surfaced in the pit.

I'm Trying To Say That Sandal Hat Is Correct About Your Theory That Ichigo Couldn't Transform Into A Hollow And Shimigami At The Same Time.....

[Undying]

Hmmm, but it seems more that the Visored are simply mentaly stronger than the Shinigami, so they can keep the Hollow in check and use it's powers without losing control, so the fact that Ichigo is yet unable to control No-Name (now he has a name - No-Name) is because he didn't train his mind so that he could keep the Hollow in check, which is why he is NOT a Visored, because once you become a Visored, you're already able to control the Hollow self. So to conclude, Ichigo is a Visored, but since he can't control the Hollow you can't call him a Visored, which leaves him to be classified as "a Shinigami with an insane thing that takes over him in battle".

[Unrefined-Nemesis]

Ichigo Can't Be Classified As A Vaizard As He Isn't In The Vaizard Organization...He's A Hybrid With No Classification

[Sandal Hat]

@Undying- You are not able to control the hollows yourself once you become a Vaizard which is why they are offering to teach Ichigo how to control it.

@UN- Vaizard isn't an organization it is the name you give to Shinigami you obtain the powers of a hollow by becoming hybrids.

[Polygon]

I'm Trying To Say That Sandal Hat Is Correct About Your Theory That Ichigo Couldn't Transform Into A Hollow And Shimigami At The Same Time.....

How/ He always had his shinigami powers. They just didn't surface yet. For him to have been a perfect hybryid he would have had to gain both powers at the same time. which he obviously didn't.


Ichigo Can't Be Classified As A Vaizard As He Isn't In The Vaizard Organization...He's A Hybrid With No Classification

That dioesn't make any sense. So to be an arrancar you have to be under aizen? Arrancar have existed long before aizen, I don't see why it would be any different with vaizards. Only because he isn't in the orginization doesnt mean he isn't a vaizard. The deinition of a vaizard is a shinigami who had gained hollow attributes, so ichigo is a vaizard.

Hmmm, but it seems more that the Visored are simply mentaly stronger than the Shinigami, so they can keep the Hollow in check and use it's powers without losing control, so the fact that Ichigo is yet unable to control No-Name (now he has a name - No-Name) is because he didn't train his mind so that he could keep the Hollow in check, which is why he is NOT a Visored, because once you become a Visored, you're already able to control the Hollow self. So to conclude, Ichigo is a Visored, but since he can't control the Hollow you can't call him a Visored, which leaves him to be classified as "a Shinigami with an insane thing that takes over him in battle".

It's obvious he is z vaizard since a vaizard called him one. You can't control your hollow aytomaticly. You have to train, just like you have to learn how to kow your zanpaktous name.

[ultimate]

when a shinigami gains hollow powers, they become wat is called a vaizard and they most likely use forbidden techniques or spells to control their hollow selves, i doubt they can already control their hollow selves automatically when they become a vaizard... and i am not sure whether ichigo is a perfect hybrid or not, i think he is most likely a hybrid who is close to becoming perfect so he is more perfect then a vaizard or arankaru but still not perfect cos he was a shinigami who lost rukias shinigami powers then gained his own shinigami powers in the shattered shaft while coming close to becoming a full hollow thus which made him a hybrid... unless he was born with both shinigami and hollow powers that would make him a perfect hybrid

[AznPoi]

All i know is vaizard kick ass

[BigBadBuu]

Guys,

Re-read the confrontation between Ichigo and Hiraku (?). It's obvious that everything Ichigo is going through is something they are familiar with. He even said it, "you are like us". Also note his prediction as to what would happen if Ichigo didn't learn to control/subjugate his hollow.

It stands to reason then based on what we've seen (on how No-Name & Zangetsu co-exist and that No-Name *went back into* Zangetsu after ichigo 'defeated' him), that Ichigo is, yes, a Vaizard and that Vaizards train to control and use their hollow, just as much as they train to use their Zanpaktu.
Zangetsu can likely materialize on his own, so can no-name. It's the same exact concept. The only difference with Ichigo, which is what may make him stronger, is that he's been developing his hollow-ness and shinigaminess simultaneously.

Furthermore, I don't think Vaizards transform into anything-- that is, until they surpass Bankai. [What's he talking about?!!] Remember, SS souls have all been purified of their Hollow-ness-- at least, they should have been. Otherwise, everyone has potentially 2 entities within them (as part of their soul), the Zanpakto and the Hollow. Bankai is joining with and physically materializing your Zanpakto. It stands to reason, then, that Bankai can be surprassed by someone joining with and materializing their Hollow! -- wait, that's already happened; remember, BK vs Ichigo! Vaizards who are in control of their Hollows dont need to and will not materialize their Hollow unless they are reeeeally need to. Otherwise, its just like with the Zanpakto-- they still gain power by learning to control the Hollow. And no, the Hollow takes over a Vaizardo just as much as a Zanpakto takes over a Shinigami-- ie, not at all.

It's clear that from the beginning No-Name would've been a serious threat, as Tsai was preparing a level 90+ binding spell for him! (hence my theory that that's where Vastrodes come from -- shinigami zanpakto/hollows gone rampant, but thats another thread...) Hrmmm.. I wonder, maybe part of the Vaizard "hollow taming process" is giving the Hollow a name...

-Buu

[AznPoi]

That sounds very plausible.