How powerful is Gin?

[thirsty]

i ask this because we really haven't seen him do ANYTHING!!! but he captures our attention because he's aizen's right hand man which MUST mean he can't be a complete scrub, and we know he was some killer child prodigy. but other then his little minor skirmishes we haven't seen ANYTHING except for a minor shikai which i don't thinks is that good personally. but any thought from anyone????

[Akiha]

I'll agree on his shikai not being all that great, and basically everything else you've stated.

So, at least in my opinion, it must be his bankai or powers as an arrancar, though neither have actually been shown nor have any proof of actually existing. Either one or both of those must have a high amount of power, enough to impress Aizen at least.

But since he was previously Captain of 3rd, he should have a Bankai, and since he's Aizen's right hand man, he should be an arrancar as well. Just my back up to my thoughts.

[sophos]

Power-wise, he is nothing spectacular compared to the other captains. Though, he is by no means weak. He would surely beat any current vice-captain. The data books put his fighting ability at the lowest overall statistics for a captain, just under Hitsugaya, but also well balanced in every area.

Gin is smart enough to know when he should back out of a situation and would never engage in a fight he couldn't win. He's more of a behind the scenes side kick.

Where he lacks in raw power, he would make up for it by dealing critical blows using skill, stealth and surprise attacks. He knows his own power very well and will only use it in a way that will bring about a sure victory.


@Akiha
It's possible Aizen and Gin have obtained vaizard powers, but it's impossible for them to be arrancar. The arrancar are exclusively hollows who have gained the powers of a shinigami.

[Sendivoge]

I've never really seen him have trouble with anything. Even in his brief (more brief than the anime makes out) encounter with Hitsugaya, he really doesn't do much. Sure, he gets his arm tied by Toushirou's chain, but his one attack with Shinsou is so well aimed that it's path includes both Hitsugaya and Momo. Quite powerful, i'm sure.

We can't really make conclusions from databook statistics...

[Chi]

You guys are nuts if you think his shikai is weak, i mean wow really matsumoto jumped in front of it and it nearly broke her sword in half. So that makes him weak? Wrong, byakuya's shikai was stopped by Renji, Yurouichi and Ichigo so by that logic Byakuya's shikai is completely useless.

Beyond that, I have to say that we have no real information on which to make any real comparisson. Only thing i can offer is that he completely pwnd Ganju with his reiatsu while Byakuya was pressuring him he could still stand. But with Gin ole boy was on his knees begging to breathe. So i put him around the same class as byakuya. I am willing to bet he has a monstrously dangerous Shikai.

[sophos]

Beyond that, I have to say that we have no real information on which to make any real comparisson. Only thing i can offer is that he completely pwnd Ganju with his reiatsu while Byakuya was pressuring him he could still stand. But with Gin ole boy was on his knees begging to breathe. So i put him around the same class as byakuya. I am willing to bet he has a monstrously dangerous Shikai.


When was this? I can't recall a single moment where Gin released his reiatsu in such a way. Are you thinking of Kenpachi?

[Chi]

When was this? I can't recall a single moment where Gin released his reiatsu in such a way. Are you thinking of Kenpachi?No but you reminded me of that too, Ganju could still move under Kempachi's reiatsu too, but he was crippled by Gin's.

I'll look for the sections.

Ganju against Zaraki's reiatsu: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/104/04/

Ganju against Byakuya's reiatsu: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/116/31/

Ganju against Gin's reaitsu: I can't bloody find it, it might have just been for the anime =/

[SLVR]

No one knows about Gin. Very mysterious. This same thread has been made billions of times. It is evident he is quite strong. Strong enough to kill a VC as a recruit.

Sophos do ya got a link to the data book?

[Chi]

No one knows about Gin. Very mysterious. This same thread has been made billions of times. It is evident he is quite strong. Strong enough to kill a VC as a recruit.

Sophos do ya got a link to the data book?
He killed a 3rd seat as a recruit and i think i did see a similar thread to this one in the anime section. I dunno... Not a mod so i don't care either way since its not my thread. xDD Just saying i think at the very least he's around Byakuya's level at the very least.

[sophos]

Yeah I can't even recall a moment when the two of them were in the same place. The times he actually used any reiatsu: Ichimaru encountered Ichigo at the gate, before they met Ganju. Ichimaru almost engaged in a fight with Momo at Aizen's death scene. Ichimaru fought against Hitsugaya. Ichimaru was seen again at the captain meetings, and once more on the bridge with Rukia. He was then with Aizen at central 46 and Sokyoku hill before finally retreating into the hollow land.

[Hisoka]

I fear more Ichimaru power than Aizen...I really don't believe that he is just hanging around obeing Aizen...I don't think he is that kind of person...He have his own ideas in mind...
I believe his power and fighting skills are one of the best in the story.

But let's wait and see.

[xxBluebird]

I think Gin must be significantly weaker than Aizen [at the moment, anyway] because otherwise there's not much reason for him to be Aizen's VC instead of the other way around. And since he doesn't seem the type to follow other people's orders and stuff either, he'd probably backstab Aizen or Tousen or whoever at the first chance he gets.

Can't believe the databooks say he's weaker than Hitsugaya, though T_T He's gotta be better than Komamura though [imo...], because I'd never thought of that guy as one of the particularly powerful captains [I think it's more like "Hey, you've got bankai. Come be a captain then." than "WOW BANKAI AND SUPERPOWERFUL SO PLZ BE CAPTAIN"...]

Don't think Gin was ever even close to Ganju, so I can't remember that at all [not in the anime either, but I've only seen a few bits of that episode anyway]. Was it when Yachiru/Inoue/Chad/co. were near the Sokyouku hill and there was like this sudden reiatsu burst or something?

[Chi]

Can't believe the databooks say he's weaker than Hitsugaya, though T_T He's gotta be better than Komamura though [imo...], because I'd never thought of that guy as one of the particularly powerful captains [I think it's more like "Hey, you've got bankai. Come be a captain then." than "WOW BANKAI AND SUPERPOWERFUL SO PLZ BE CAPTAIN"...]
Oii, the databooks only measure that person's personal growth as a shinigami. One person's growth isn't egual to another. So Gin is well balanced in everything but his potential could be at the level of hitsugaya or Yamaji himself. It can be used to measure one person to another. If anything Gin is already significantly stronger then Hitsugaya and has more room to grow in his shinigami powers the Hitsugaya does.

Now like i said the scene with Ganju and Gin was only in the anime in episode 61 or 62. I can't recall. So i already withdrew that part. Since this isn't in the anime section.

[xxBluebird]

Oii, the databooks only measure that person's personal growth as a shinigami. One person's growth isn't egual to another. So Gin is well balanced in everything but his potential could be at the level of hitsugaya or Yamaji himself. It can be used to measure one person to another. If anything Gin is already significantly stronger then Hitsugaya and has more room to grow in his shinigami powers the Hitsugaya does.

Now like i said the scene with Ganju and Gin was only in the anime in episode 61 or 62. I can't recall. So i already withdrew that part. Since this isn't in the anime section.
Oo ok...

I get it now xD The stats of the databook [I think?] aren't compared to other people but are just their own potential [so someone who has 10 in everything might actually be weaker than someone who only has a 3 in most things]?

Then~ I would say Gin is ranked [out of all the captains] somewhere in the middle/high group? Because he's definitely/probably not as good as say, Yamamoto or even Unohana... but he's not totally average/crappy either.

[Chi]

Exactly, while he maybe at 80% in all his categories he could be far superior in powers then most of the mid-tier and lower tier capts. And depending on what his bankai can do he could be a threat to higher tier capts too.

i put him in the upper mid-tier bracket of SS's captains up there with Byakuya and Kempachi and not necessarily in that order :).

[SLVR]

Who writes the Data book, Kubo?

[Character]

Everybody says the databooks measure potential and where there at currently. I was just wondering how anybody knows this? Did it say it some other part of the book?

[Chi]

I think kubo wrote it, i dunno if it said that specifically myself cause i don't read Japanese. But people who are familiar have said that, that's what it emplies

[zen]

well he is indeed powerful, but I don't think his bankai is that strong, it may just let his zanpaktou extend further. either way i believe that his mind games are his number one strength. i mean when you trying to kill someone and they won't stop smiling it does annoy you a hell of a lot.

[KholdStare]

We have to remember that Hitsugaya today is what Gin was 100 years ago. He was the prodigy Captain. Now that little Gin is all grown up, one can assume that he's certainly a force to be reckoned with. I think Hitsugaya, all grown up ofcourse, will be a very powerful Captain.

[Chi]

Maybe am biased in my opinion, but i think Gin's overall potential maybe greater then Hitsugaya. Gin's bankai will be an extension of his shikai and if Byakuya is any indication then He's going to have one hell of a Bankai imo.

also: is there a thread for the databooks? i can't find it anymore

[Hueso Loco]

Who writes the Data book, Kubo?

Yeah, Kubo did write the data book. One thing you have to keep in mind that the data book is all about stats, and doesn't provide a realistic view of how strong the captains are.

I think that Gin is one of the strongest captains but not stronger than the top 5 (Shunsui, Yamamoto, Unohana, Aizen, Ukitake). Another thing you have to remember is that fighting is all about match ups, maybe your shikai is weak but it may match up very well against others and vice versa. Plus we have seen very little of Gin's shikai we have only seen that one attack but maybe Gin's shinzo has some pretty cool shikai abilities, and let's not mention his bankai abilities, and the possibility of him having hollow powers.

[Guy]

No one knows, that's the thing, but being a loyal follower of Aizen's, it is safe to assume that he is strong.

While his shikai may not be the most impressive thing we've ever seen, we don't know his bankai, and we don't even know what will happen if he uses his shikai realistically. I mean, the only time he really uses his shikai against someone anywhere near strong is Hitsugaya. Byakuya was near death, so that doesn't really count. Jidanbou was a weakling, so that doesn't count. Hitsugaya is the strongest one that Gin's shikai was used against, but I doubt that was his maximum potential, as Hitsu is weaksauce.

Everything about Gin's bankai though, would be speculation.

[Night Prowler]

Yus the databooks mean nothing, Zakari got the lowest score and yet he defeated both FoxCaptain (can never remember his name) and Tousen.

Well i agree Khold and also think that what we've seen of him know can't be compared with anything as he never shows all his power Gin's style is to mix things up, sit back and watch the chaos.

[Chi]

I think Gin, next to Urahara are the most developed/intriguing characters in this series.

[Rainl]

Everybody says the databooks measure potential and where there at currently. I was just wondering how anybody knows this? Did it say it some other part of the book?

I would also like where it is stated "potential". I wouldn't exaclty call it just potential. It's merely different limits. IMO. Hitsugaya for example, is higher on the chart than Ukitake is. We all know Hitsugaya is absolute fail in comparison to Ukitake. Lets say(this is just random btw) Hitsugaya has a 100 in power, and Ukitake has a 100 in power.

Just because they are both 100 in power and have reached their limit, doesn't necessarily mean they have the same limit. Meaning their max in power aren't at the same power. Ukitake's maxed ability in power may be far higher than Hitsugaya's maxed ability in power.

Do you sort of understand what I'm trying to get at?:eek13:

Their ability's are maybe only comparable too themselves and what "themselves" only, are capable of. Not technically to everyone else.

[KholdStare]

Who writes the Data book, Kubo?
Yep. Kubo does.

And since everybody keeps mentioning the databooks, I put them up today:

http://forums.bleachportal.net/showthread.php?t=59673

[xxBluebird]

Gin is smart enough to keep his eyes closed to avoid Kyouka Suigetsu:)
Yet, amazingly, he still doesn't crash into walls. How does he do that? o_O; Neither does Tousen, I guess, but he's been blind since forever. Gin's only selectively and maybe blind.

This is spoilerish, but it's kind of not, so...
In one of the Bleach games [I think either PSP or Wii] Gin gets this ability that's kind of this giant bandage that wraps around the opponent. Is that kidou or what?

But I guess it could be kind of just made up, like Kyouraku and Ukitake's abilities in the 2nd Bleach DS game...

Hopefully Gin's bankai will be a lot better than just an extension of his shikai.

Hmm... if Gin's shikai didn't have a limit to how far it could go [and this is totally ignoring the shifting-of-center-of-weight physics stuff too], and he basically just shot it all the way around the globe, would it hit him in the back? o_O;;

[SLVR]

Yus the databooks mean nothing, Zakari got the lowest score and yet he defeated both FoxCaptain (can never remember his name) and Tousen.

Well i agree Khold and also think that what we've seen of him know can't be compared with anything as he never shows all his power Gin's style is to mix things up, sit back and watch the chaos.Yeah that is true. It makes me wonder if thats just to mess with people or its just thrown out there for good measure. Im not sure how Aizen, Gin, and Kenpachi are where they are in the data book

[Sandal Hat]

Gin is quite strong my friends.

[thirsty]

i still think there is much more to see with that guy, i think he will have a major battle and give whoever he fights (doubt he fights ichigo) an extremely hard time due to his bankai. anything less will be a dissappointment

[Rainl]

i still think there is much more to see with that guy, i think he will have a major battle and give whoever he fights (doubt he fights ichigo) an extremely hard time due to his bankai. anything less will be a dissappointment

Well..thats sort of going to depend on exactly who he's going up against. Although I don't necessarily see him fighting anyone but Hitsugaya, given their situations in the past.

Which is going to bug the hell out of me, because I dislike the little guy, and worst case scenario-Hitsugaya is going to win.

[thirsty]

lol that's funny you despise him, he's the most popular character according to the most recent poll. i think he's pretty cool but he's not my favorite either, but i don't despise him lol. why do you despise him?

[Rainl]

lol that's funny you despise him, he's the most popular character according to the most recent poll. i think he's pretty cool but he's not my favorite either, but i don't despise him lol. why do you despise him?

I don't really hat him. Its just his fans can be annoying at times, which makes me dislike him some. Ok I'm going to change that from despise to "dislike". <--That was off-topic.

On topic: I won't jump to conclusions on Gin's power just yet. He hasn't really shown anything to be noted for, except for his shikai, which isn't too great IMO.

[Chi]

Hitsugaya =/= win against Gin Ichimaru, he'll need help from Matsumoto especially given the recent events which makes me think that those boys maybe Vizardized themselves by means of Hougokyou xD

[aliti]

Looking at the Databooks, it shows Gin as being balanced all-around. But I wonder if he was holding back in some areas. Because it shows Aizen has not maxed out everything but his speech on the hill he implies that he has maxed out everything but that is not what the data books show. That makes me think Aizen, Gin and Tosen may have been hiding some of their skills.

In one of the Bleach games [I think either PSP or Wii] Gin gets this ability that's kind of this giant bandage that wraps around the opponent. Is that kidou or what?

But I guess it could be kind of just made up, like Kyouraku and Ukitake's abilities in the 2nd Bleach DS game...



Not having played those games and not knowing what it looks like/does, when Gin first made his appearance he wrapped Zaraki in a "bandage" and drug him a away from Byakuya. Then, there was when Yuruichi wrapped Byakuya's sword to keep him from releasing it.

[zero_c]

Hitsugaya =/= win against Gin Ichimaru, he'll need help from Matsumoto especially given the recent events which makes me think that those boys maybe Vizardized themselves by means of Hougokyou xD

And yet Grimmjaw and Haibel is surprised by Ichigo's and Shinji's transformation.

[Chi]

Just because they are doesn't mean they used it in front of those two. Or any of the Espada for that matter, their shinigami powers are obviously enough to keep them in check

[thirsty]

this has probably been brought up numerous times but i really wonder if Gin and Tousen are stronger than all of the espada, i mean can pretty much assume aizen is but it's confusing with those two. we haven't seen much from Gin and even tho Tousen lost to kenpachi he sliced Grimmjow's arm off with ease and looked like he could've took him.

[xxBluebird]

Assuming Tousen hasn't improved at all since the SS arc/wasn't actually faking weak...

Kenpachi > Noit [only just. I think. My memory is crappy. Did he actually defeat Noit or not?] and Kenpachi > Tousen [and Komamura, afterwards, but the battle didn't end, I think...]. So no, Tousen isn't stronger than all the Espada.

Gin, though... who knows? >_< Damn him and his ability to avoid finishing nearly every single fight that comes his way.

[Chi]

Umm... it became apparent to us that Kempachi was hiding his true strength. He at anytime could have killed Nnoitra if he wasn't trying to enjoy the thrill of battle so much. The min he got fed up Nnoitra had one foot deep in the grave and then took another step toward kempachi to put the rest of his body in there.

However Gin whenever he's about to do something... he is stopped. He was going to do something to Momo but Hitsugaya got involved. He was going to something to jidanbou but he was stopped by Rangiku... so... =/

[thirsty]

who knows, but i still think it makes no sense for tousen to struggle against kenpachi but slice grimmjow's arm off so easily. i don't think he is as beatable as kenpachi made him seem tho. kenpachi used a method that VERY FEW would ever be bold enough to try to stop Tousen's bankai. you all bring up a valid point tho about Gin never actually finishing something, maybe that's his bankai lol.

[sophos]

Being caught off-guard is what causes almost every single defeat in one on one battles in Bleach. Power level can't prevent a fatal blow when they don't see it coming.

[Freya]

I really just think that we haven't seen enough to judge how powerful he is.

We have seen enough clues to guess that he must be pretty powerful. MAIN reason is that Aizen has kept him around from day one and he chose him for a reason.

[Reyin]

[and Komamura, afterwards, but the battle didn't end, I think...]

/offtopic

Ya, they stopped before really doing anything one on one. Would have been interesting though, they're both very high attack power brute fighters (at least Sajin is according to the databooks, and his bankai doesn't seem to be very suited for speed or kido or anything of that sort.) I hate to quote databooks, because they really are only a general outline.


To get back on topic though, I agree with the comment by Shanyetta that there must be a reason why Aizen has kept him around, he's definitely something special. The problem is, like Shinji, Kensei, Urahara, and Yoruichi, we've only seen a taste of his ability, not really enough to gauge accurately how strong he really is.

[demorippa]

according to the databook he is a well rounded fighter in all forms. but if you go by the books lil shiro is stronger or at least faster with more stamina so in a extended fight he would lose

[Character]

according to the databook he is a well rounded fighter in all forms. but if you go by the books lil shiro is stronger or at least faster with more stamina so in a extended fight he would lose

No. The Bleach databooks are where the person currently is in their development. You cannot use them to compare people or discern fight outcome. Example: a Gin 80 could be as strong or stronger than a Hitsugaya 90. We don't know. Otherwise, we would know the outcome of every captain battle.

[Juthrum]

Different captains cannot be compared using the databook. The scales for measurement of abilities for each captain is different, or the databook would make no sense.

[setasujiro]

I think, Ichimaru is a powerful fighter, I mean, just look at how he just toyed with Hitsugaya during their battle with just releasing his shikai at the last moment. He is a thinker but a powerful one whom you don't want to reckoned with.

[xxBluebird]

As I'm pretty sure someone's already said, Ichimaru wasn't really messing around with Hitsugaya in their fight, but Hitsugaya wasn't exactly in control of the fight either. xD

[[Actually... Gin seeming better at fighting in the anime is the reason why I prefer that fight... but to be honest, in the manga, if the fight had been extended, I think either Hitsugaya would've barely won or it would've been a draw ending up with Momo probably dead. xD ]]

I was surprised that Gin got 80 in stats in everything in the Databook. I'd never really thought of him as the kidou-using type xDDD

Hopefully his bankai isn't like some uber-ized version of his shikai like Hitsugaya's. That would be really annoying.

[Jelle]

^Lol, I don't really know what an uber-ized version of his shikai could possibly be; maybe his bankai will allow him to bend his sword in all different kinds of directions as well as being able to extend to lengths in excess of 10000 metres. >_<

I got the impression that Ichimaru was messing around during the fight up until the point where Hitsu started to get on his nerves by fighting him instead of tending to Momo. He had a job to do and I don't think killing Hits and Momo there and then wasn't really a part of it. If the fight had of been extended and Matsumoto didn't show up, I think Hitsugaya would have pissed him off so much that it would have ended in his death as well as Momo's. :P

We all know Aizen picked him up when he was a child prodigy, so not only has he grown and become more powerful, but Aizen wouldn't be the type of person that'd have a weakling as his right hand man; also, Aizen's probably taught him a thing or two along the way. All the best ablities/bankai's/fighters are being left till last (most probably the Winter War) and I believe Gin is going to be up as one of the more powerful/higher tier characters.

[Saulomo]

I think Shinsou's Bankai will work the same way as the Shikai, but at a greater scale. I mean; can be sent in a lot of directions, new blades being shot out from the current blade and stuff. If that's the case, Byakuya and Ichigo would be the only one able to kill him, as Ichigo has extremespeed to evade his attacks, and Byakuya can defend himself with Senbonzakura Kageyoshi.

[Character]

I think Shinsou's Bankai will work the same way as the Shikai, but at a greater scale. I mean; can be sent in a lot of directions, new blades being shot out from the current blade and stuff. If that's the case, Byakuya and Ichigo would be the only one able to kill him, as Ichigo has extremespeed to evade his attacks, and Byakuya can defend himself with Senbonzakura Kageyoshi.

We really don't know who would be able to kill him in that situation. Of the people who's full abilities we know, they may be the only two who can kill him. But we have to assume their are some other captains who aren't messing around either.

[Nowitzki]

1) Shinsou can be used at point-blank range, which makes it a very versatile weapon. If used properly, it could prove deadly. It's not as useless as most make it out to be

2) Shikai's can have numerous abilities.

3) Gin is mysterious for a reason. He is a lot stronger than we are being led on to believe. I personally think that Kubo did not give us all that hype about Gin in the flashbacks just to show Aizen recruit him. It's foreshadowing the fact that he is very strong, and is obviously being misjudged. The databooks even show he is a well rounded fighter, and not even at his full potential.

[zero_c]

We all know Aizen picked him up when he was a child prodigy, so not only has he grown and become more powerful, but Aizen wouldn't be the type of person that'd have a weakling as his right hand man

I have been thinking about this, I remember Byakuya specifically say that

"The only shinigami that is afraid of death is you (Ichimaru) and the 9th squad captain (Tousen)"

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/65/09/

I think Aizen chose the people that was the easiest to manipulate, the ones with the most fear, not necessarily the strongest. I think Gin is mostly like in the low to mid tier captain in terms of power.

[Pierrot]

I fear more Ichimaru power than Aizen...I really don't believe that he is just hanging around obeing Aizen...I don't think he is that kind of person...He have his own ideas in mind...
I believe his power and fighting skills are one of the best in the story.

But let's wait and see.

This. I think there is more than meets the eye with Gin and before it's all over we'll see him turn on Aizen. Maybe thats not gonna be the case but we've not seen any evidence yet as to why he is always by his side. it's not like he owes Aizen anything.

[Rainl]

I think Aizen chose the people that was the easiest to manipulate, the ones with the most fear, not necessarily the strongest. I think Gin is mostly like in the low to mid tier captain in terms of power.

Oh, lawd. You do know you're about to get butchered, for saying about little ol' Gin, right?lol.. However I do also agree that Aizen did manipulate Tousen and Gin, because they'd prove to be the most easiest to control.

I do think that Gin is strong, however I wouldn't necessarily put him at a HighTier level yet. Since he hasn't demonstrated anything to be at the level atm.

But Also take a look at Tousen. The guys a total pansy. He bows down as soon as Aizen looks at him.

[dogmatix]

But Also take a look at Tousen. The guys a total pansy. He bows down as soon as Aizen looks at him.

I wouldn't call Tousen a pansy - completely deluded and misguided yes, but not a pansy.

He offered to take down Urahara and Tessai single handedly. Ignoring the fact that he probably would've been smashed if Aizen had allowed it, the fact that he showed reverence to Aizen when he denied him doesn't detract from the fact he was willing to try.

On topic, Gin is clearly talented, smart and sociopathic, making him a force to be reckoned with for anyone. He has a reason to fight both Rangiku and Hitsaguya, and i can easily see him having to fight both at the same time in the near future. If he managed to take out both of them the only surprise for me would be the bad guy actually winning for once.

[Character]

I have been thinking about this, I remember Byakuya specifically say that

"The only shinigami that is afraid of death is you (Ichimaru) and the 9th squad captain (Tousen)"

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/65/09/

I think Aizen chose the people that was the easiest to manipulate, the ones with the most fear, not necessarily the strongest. I think Gin is mostly like in the low to mid tier captain in terms of power.

That was actually Kenpachi who said that but I see your point. It's no coincidence that Tousen and Gin are the two who are afraid to die, obviously, but I dont think that gaurantees that that means he chose them for that reason.

We know why he chose Tousen. Because he couldn't be fooled by his Shikai. That might be auxiliary reasons but that is what sparked his initial interests. Gin could have just been really strong and obviously violent and Aizen liked that. I don't know. But I don't he chose simply because they were easy to manipulate.

[rinnin]

i personaly think he is very strong i mean he killed a 3rd at a young age and he aizens right hand man.i think him and uruhara(the best character) could go toe to toe.

[mebidtt13]

Aizen wouldn't trust Gin and have him as his right hand if he(Gin) wasn't powerful. I think Gin is one of the most powerful captains from the gotei 13, but we don't really know, because we haven't seen him fight. Gin was just playing with Toshiro, so we can't really call that a -real- fight. But he killed a 3rd as young, so I bet he's really powerful!

[November]

i agree with most of the people here. gin is most likely extremely powerful, aizen wouldn't have recruited him otherwise. Also we learnt that he was a child prodigy. and when he fought with hitsue he wasn't serious. can't wait to see him go all out against someone.

[Mendelson Shape]

i think that we can deduce alot about a person by the zanpaktou. for instance with aizen, kyoukatsuigetsu ability is to manipulate the enemy and create illusions and this attribute is aizen's main characteristic. so Gin shinso can say that he is very distant or was alone for a long time or something like that. in the story he relatively unknown in terms of his past, where he came from etc. but all i can say is that he was probably an orphan or his family was killed and it was somehow related to rangiku-san. however, that mocking smile is more sign of hate and evil than any grimace.

also, i think that Gin's purpose at aizen's side isn't so much as friendship as either of them doesn't seem like the type to be so trusting...so i think Gin is looking for something or trying to find out information about something that he probably thinks aizen will discover. so he's just along for the ride i guess.

[SenpaiRetsu]

Aizen wouldn't trust Gin and have him as his right hand if he(Gin) wasn't powerful. I think Gin is one of the most powerful captains from the gotei 13, but we don't really know, because we haven't seen him fight. Gin was just playing with Toshiro, so we can't really call that a -real- fight. But he killed a 3rd as young, so I bet he's really powerful!

another thing that happened was remember in the beginning of Soul Society arc, the Gotei was really surprised that Gin didn't kill all of the intruders. He he lopped off the gate keepers arm effortlessly. It's clear that he needed to be punished because he's so powerful that there was no excuse for him not to kill a few ryoka.

[Tyekanik]

That would go for any captain though. Remember that they were weak until proven strong, hence the lower than VC's were hunting them enthusiastically.

[Mendelson Shape]

don't you all find it strange that so early in the game Gin and Aizen teamed up? i doubt that Aizen was handing out leaflets on joining his forces to overthrow the King. but i would like to see how these two relations came into being and how was it that Aizen saw Gin that everyone else had missed.

[xxBluebird]

It may have been because Gin joined Aizen/Shinji's division when he was first accepted, and he was a 3rd seat after all... And he killed the former 3rd seat, which Aizen saw. That would've shown that he was pretty powerful, since he was only a kid then. Since you don't really see kids like that just killing people then being all "^^ Aa he was just a weakling anyway~", that could've been the reason that Aizen and Gin teamed up to help him take over the world or something?

xD @ Aizen handing out leaflets

[Mendelson Shape]

yeah, but i think somewhere along the lines aizen was observing Gin throughout his training in the academy just like hinamory. he's very smart this aizen.

[xxBluebird]

Aizen is a stalker. o_o;

Offtopic-ish - That would be interesting though, if Aizen used to go to the Academy and pick out the people he wanted in his division? Is that how it works? >_< Because it seemed like, when he and Gin met Izuru and Renji and Momo, they could basically choose who they wanted to join their division and who they wanted to kick out.

[Pie]

To lazy to read through this whole thread, read the first page.
We don't know anything really about this character so assuming shit is pointless.


But to people that say that he's under Hitsugaya, wtf?
Didn't he hold his ground to Hitsugaya when he had gone bankai and he hadn't? Cant remember everything from that long ago though.

But we really havent seen him to anything in serious mode so I wouldnt really be saying he's weak. I mean cmon...Aizen went from being a Captain noone really bothered to notice to the strongest dude in the story.


Gin fanboi ftw.

- - -

Hitsugaya didn't go bankai against Gin.

[xxBluebird]

Gin didn't go shikai until Hitsugaya put his arm into an iceblock. Hitsugaya went shikai at the start of the fight.

[Reading back on that fight though, it was over really quickly o_O; ]

I'd actually probably put Gin and Hitsugaya on kind-of equal ground >_<;

[Character]

I'd actually probably put Gin and Hitsugaya on kind-of equal ground >_<;

I agree. A lot of people say Gin toyed with Hitsugaya but I don't think that at all. If you notice Gin had the smile on his face as he always does, so that's not an indicator of how the fight was going. The more interesting point however is that when Gin released his shikai, it was one of the few moments in the entire manga/anime that Gin had his eyes open and he wasn't smiling. The dude wasn't messing around. We don't know what his bankai does. He could be leagues of ahead Hitsugaya. But from what we've seen, I don't think there is any indication that Gin is substantially stronger that Hitsugaya if he's stronger at all and didn't toy with Hitsugaya at all in my opinion.

[Jelle]

I agree. A lot of people say Gin toyed with Hitsugaya but I don't think that at all. If you notice Gin had the smile on his face as he always does, so that's not an indicator of how the fight was going.
I always thought that his smile was a reasonable indicator of how the fight was going.

To me it didn't look like Hitsugaya bothered him in the slightest until he froze his arm, at which point Gin got fed up with him (his facial expression changed from that of a playful one to that of a more serious one) and used shikai.

The more interesting point however is that when Gin released his shikai, it was one of the few moments in the entire manga/anime that Gin had his eyes open and he wasn't smiling. The dude wasn't messing around.
Exactly. I know this isn't what you mean, but when he opened his eyes and released shikai, he only just started to get serious at that point. Which is also why I think that smile on his face was a decent indicator during the fight. Otherwise he would have used shikai before then.. but he didn't. Imo, he just played around with him for a little while.


He could be leagues of ahead Hitsugaya.
I certainly hope so. Otherwise I won't be a happy Gin fan. ):

I'm itching to see Gin in action again. I'd like to see him holding his own against someone considered strong and NOT a fight involving Hitsugaya/Matsumoto, that would be kinda lame I reckon. Maybe one of the Vizard... that'd be cool.

[zero_c]

I always thought that his smile was a reasonable indicator of how the fight was going.

To me it didn't look like Hitsugaya bothered him in the slightest until he froze his arm, at which point Gin got fed up with him (his facial expression changed from that of a playful one to that of a more serious one) and used shikai

In the fight in the manga, they showed Gin's face multiple times, and only once did it show that he was smiling and that was the beginning of the fight. You can argue that he was serious the whole fight.

Exactly. I know this isn't what you mean, but when he opened his eyes and released shikai, he only just started to get serious at that point. Which is also why I think that smile on his face was a decent indicator during the fight. Otherwise he would have used shikai before then.. but he didn't. Imo, he just played around with him for a little while.

Gin had to attack an unconscious person in order to gain the advantage/end the fight. If Histu did not have anyone to take care of, he would have sliced Gin up after Gin release his shikai. Remember it takes time for him to retract his blade.

I certainly hope so. Otherwise I won't be a happy Gin fan. ):

I'm itching to see Gin in action again. I'd like to see him holding his own against someone considered strong and NOT a fight involving Hitsugaya/Matsumoto, that would be kinda lame I reckon. Maybe one of the Vizard... that'd be cool.

It would be pointless to point out so much animosity with Histu and back story with Matsumoto if Gin don't fight those 2.

[Jelle]

In the fight in the manga, they showed Gin's face multiple times, and only once did it show that he was smiling and that was the beginning of the fight. You can argue that he was serious the whole fight.
Isn't there only really one panel, besides from when Hits freezes Gin's arm, that we don't see Gin's smirk? Not counting the ones where the lower part of his face are obscured.

Gin wasn't serious because he didn't release, why on Earth would he take Hyourinmaru head on in a unreleased state if he was serious? Not only that but he only attacked Hitsugaya once (unless I'm missing something here) and that was because I assume Hitsugaya was going to try and kill him (or arrest him, whatever). Gin did virtually nothing in this fight, all he did was defend himself. He only attacked Hits once, I'd hardly call that serious.

Gin had to attack an unconscious person in order to gain the advantage/end the fight. If Histu did not have anyone to take care of, he would have sliced Gin up after Gin release his shikai. Remember it takes time for him to retract his blade.
Well what can I say? Gin used his brain. I know if I was fighting someone in a street fight and someone was going to try and kill me or something, I'd attack their weak spot first and in this case, that just so happened to be Momo.

Anyways, how do you know Gin would have been sliced up after releasing shikai if Momo wasn't there? He probably would have taken better aim at Hitsugaya had that been the case. And who says he'd retract it straight away after extending it? There's probably number of ways he could use it, instead of just; Extend, Stab, Retract etc. Another way he could use it would be to extend it and then swing it around. Sounds simple but it gives him a considerable amount of range, while making it hard for someone just to get close enough to him to slice him up in the first place.

I'm not gonna comment on the speed of his shikai. It seems fast enough but the anime makes it look crap, but I guess that's just my opinion. :/

It would be pointless to point out so much animosity with Histu and back story with Matsumoto if Gin don't fight those 2. I know that, but I'm not looking forward to it. It'll be boring imo, that's why I said I'd like to see him fight someone else. Maybe it's possible he'll have more than one fight. ):

[zero_c]

Isn't there only really one panel, besides from when Hits freezes Gin's arm, that we don't see Gin's smirk? Not counting the ones where the lower part of his face are obscured.

But in the whole fight, do we ever see a panel where he is smirking? No, so we can't assume we he was even smirking the whole time, but we do we one panel where he isn't smirking.

Gin wasn't serious because he didn't release, why on Earth would he take Hyourinmaru head on in a unreleased state if he was serious?

I classified Gin and Byakuya's zanpakuto in the same category because they are the only ones where their release is technically a move. Other zanpakuto release to Shikai and they stay in that form. While Bya and Gin's go back to their original form when they are done. Its kind of like they are in constant released form.

Not only that but he only attacked Hitsugaya once (unless I'm missing something here) and that was because I assume Hitsugaya was going to try and kill him (or arrest him, whatever). Gin did virtually nothing in this fight, all he did was defend himself. He only attacked Hits once, I'd hardly call that serious.

I can easily say Gin was defending himself because that's the only thing he could have done, Hitsu was overpowering him.

Well what can I say? Gin used his brain. I know if I was fighting someone in a street fight and someone was going to try and kill me or something, I'd attack their weak spot first and in this case, that just so happened to be Momo.

He had to use his brain because he was getting overpowered.

Anyways, how do you know Gin would have been sliced up after releasing shikai if Momo wasn't there? He probably would have taken better aim at Hitsugaya had that been the case. And who says he'd retract it straight away after extending it? There's probably number of ways he could use it, instead of just; Extend, Stab, Retract etc. Another way he could use it would be to extend it and then swing it around. Sounds simple but it gives him a considerable amount of range, while making it hard for someone just to get close enough to him to slice him up in the first place.

I say aiming for the head is the best aim you can ask for. A hole in the head = a dead person.


I'm not gonna comment on the speed of his shikai. It seems fast enough but the anime makes it look crap, but I guess that's just my opinion. :/

Yet Hitsu can avoid it when Gin released it at point blank.

I know that, but I'm not looking forward to it. It'll be boring imo, that's why I said I'd like to see him fight someone else. Maybe it's possible he'll have more than one fight. ):

Yet you think him fighting a Vaizard who he have no history would be more interesting? In baseball, one the most interesting rivarly is the Yankees/Boston rivarly, and that's because of all the history between the two teams.

On a side note, people hype Gin up too much. People have said Gin can take on Urahara, but I think Urahara would obliterate Gin in 1 second flat. I think Gin belongs in the lower-mid tier to low tier captain.

[SenpaiRetsu]

But in the whole fight, do we ever see a panel where he is smirking? No, so we can't assume we he was even smirking the whole time, but we do we one panel where he isn't smirking.



I classified Gin and Byakuya's zanpakuto in the same category because they are the only ones where their release is technically a move. Other zanpakuto release to Shikai and they stay in that form. While Bya and Gin's go back to their original form when they are done. Its kind of like they are in constant released form.



I can easily say Gin was defending himself because that's the only thing he could have done, Hitsu was overpowering him.



He had to use his brain because he was getting overpowered.



I say aiming for the head is the best aim you can ask for. A hole in the head = a dead person.




Yet Hitsu can avoid it when Gin released it at point blank.



Yet you think him fighting a Vaizard who he have no history would be more interesting? In baseball, one the most interesting rivarly is the Yankees/Boston rivarly, and that's because of all the history between the two teams.

On a side note, people hype Gin up too much. People have said Gin can take on Urahara, but I think Urahara would obliterate Gin in 1 second flat. I think Gin belongs in the lower-mid tier to low tier captain.


No there are other zanpakutos that change such as Unohana's, Rangiku's, and Renji's just to name a few. Like Renji's extends and so does Gin's maybe Gin's can extend much farther but the principle is still the same.........

It's clear Gin wan't serious because he said "my my the great prodigy." when he knows that clearly he himself was and is a prodigy way before Hitsugaya's time, at least by 100 years.

When did Hitsugaya overpower Gin? This never happened. Hitsugaya released shikai first because he knew he had no chance of sparing with Gin unreleased.

NO one has ever layed as single scratch on Gin yet, plus he tied up Zaraki and leaped across from roof to another effortlessly clearly he is strong.

His spiritual pressure brought the Ryoka company and shinigami to their knees with no effort. They don't bow before Ichigo's spirit pressure one in which he can't control but kneel to Gin's.

Gin has never submitted to Aizen. Aizen has suggested things and he has agreed with it but never submitted like Tousen or Grimmjaw or someone else.

Gin clearly doesn't fear Aizen. I'm assuming it's because he's powerful. It's clearly not because he and Aizen are "friends" Aizen doesn't have friends in any real sense of the form.

All this shows that Gin is strong. He doesn't even fear Yama it seems

[zero_c]

No there are other zanpakutos that change such as Unohana's, Rangiku's, and Renji's just to name a few. Like Renji's extends and so does Gin's maybe Gin's can extend much farther but the principle is still the same.........

I agree on Unohana's and Rangiku's but not on Renji. Here is something that is consistent with Gin's, Unohana's and Rangiku, they would use the unreleased version to fight, and call upon their released version as an attack. While Renji used his released version to fight, and extend it for an attack.

It's clear Gin wan't serious because he said "my my the great prodigy." when he knows that clearly he himself was and is a prodigy way before Hitsugaya's time, at least by 100 years.

Let's see Gin joined the Gotei 100 years ago, 50 years ago he was still a VC. Hitsu joined the Gotei less than 50 years ago, and yet he is a captain already. So who is more of a prodigy?

When did Hitsugaya overpower Gin? This never happened. Hitsugaya released shikai first because he knew he had no chance of sparing with Gin unreleased.

How many fights have we seen a shinigami not released to shikai to fight? If Hitsu thought he had no chance in sparing with Gin, then why didn't he go Bankai?

NO one has ever layed as single scratch on Gin yet, plus he tied up Zaraki and leaped across from roof to another effortlessly clearly he is strong.

Yet he said to Byakuya "Please forgive him, Rokubantai Taichou, at least I don't want to go against you!"

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/65/14/

His spiritual pressure brought the Ryoka company and shinigami to their knees with no effort.

The only time that I remember Gin encountering ryoka in the SS arc was at the guardian gate. And I don't remember Chad, Inoune or Ishida on their knees.

They don't bow before Ichigo's spirit pressure one in which he can't control but kneel to Gin's.

Ichigo leaks his spirit pressure and he doesn't use his spirit pressure to push people down.

All this shows that Gin is strong. He doesn't even fear Yama it seems

Are you implying that Gin can take on Yamma?

[Character]

I always thought that his smile was a reasonable indicator of how the fight was going.

I don't think so. At least not in Bleach. Look at Kenpachi, getting cut to peices by Nnoitora and is smiling because he is so happy. Of course he was going to ultimately win, but even when he was fighting Ichigo and lost, he was smiling.

To me it didn't look like Hitsugaya bothered him in the slightest until he froze his arm, at which point Gin got fed up with him (his facial expression changed from that of a playful one to that of a more serious one) and used shikai.

Exactly. I know this isn't what you mean, but when he opened his eyes and released shikai, he only just started to get serious at that point. Which is also why I think that smile on his face was a decent indicator during the fight. Otherwise he would have used shikai before then.. but he didn't. Imo, he just played around with him for a little while.

You and I read this differently. The way I see this, Gin didn't expect Hitsugaya to pose any threat but he did end up posing and that's when Gin got serious. What I'm arguing is that just because Gin didn't think he wasn't a threat and treated like such at the beginning, doesn't in any way indicate Gin superiority. When Gin realized he was a threat, in other words, Hitsugaya was much closer to him power level than Gin thought, was when he got serious and released his shikai.

Really what comes down to is this. If Gin was really toying with him, I mean really toying with him, he would have never released his shikai.

[Rainl]

Are you implying that Gin can take on Yamma?

I don't think thats what he meant, since we all know Gin doesn't even compare to Yama. I agree with him though. Gin doesn't fear anyone. Thats part of his character. Its as if this entire scenario is just a big game. It seems as if he doesn't care one way or the other about what happens.

[Character]

I don't think thats what he meant, since we all know Gin doesn't even compare to Yama. I agree with him though. Gin doesn't fear anyone. Thats part of his character. Its as if this entire scenario is just a big game. It seems as if he doesn't care one way or the other about what happens.

Disagree. As Kenpachi says, he fears death. There is no reason to fear death unless you fear something. Being the fact that he is a shinigami, I'm assuming he can't die from cancer, although their is illness (ukitake) but he's lived for however many years. It wouldn't make any sense to go to the after life and find out you have soul cancer. So he has to fear something since he's immortal and can't die from normal causes meaning he fears a person. That person could be Aizen, or Yama, or some unknown character, but he has to fear someone or else he wouldn't be afraid of death.

[Esca]

Uhh.. that made very little sense. I know what you were saying, but do you honestly mean in order to fear death, you must fear a person? The answer to that riddle is no. http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6236/smileut4.gif

[Rainl]

Disagree. As Kenpachi says, he fears death. There is no reason to fear death unless you fear something. Being the fact that he is a shinigami, I'm assuming he can't die from cancer, although their is illness (ukitake) but he's lived for however many years. It wouldn't make any sense to go to the after life and find out you have soul cancer. So he has to fear something since he's immortal and can't die from normal causes meaning he fears a person. That person could be Aizen, or Yama, or some unknown character, but he has to fear someone or else he wouldn't be afraid of death.


Hmm..I see what your getting at, but you don't necessarily have to fear a person to fear death. A real life situation for instance. This person doesn't exactly have to fear a single person on this planet, but they don't want to die. You get what I'm saying?

He doesn't have to fear someone, just because he fears death itself. Death itself isn't a being. It can come by many different means, then just from another opponent.

[captainmawaluigi]

I have been thinking about this, I remember Byakuya specifically say that

"The only shinigami that is afraid of death is you (Ichimaru) and the 9th squad captain (Tousen)"

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/65/09/

I think Aizen chose the people that was the easiest to manipulate, the ones with the most fear, not necessarily the strongest. I think Gin is mostly like in the low to mid tier captain in terms of power.


Wow Ive seen a lot of pitiful ways to measure power, that right there....is quite sad though. Just because someone does not fear death, does not make them strong. I know Kenpachi would love to fight against Yammotto, and he would be killed, but wait, he is not scared in the least bit, so he would win right?

In Bleach, a lot of battles have went forth, without the character showing their true skill. You can look at Tousen fighten Kenpachi, he held back from killing. You can see Ikkaku fightin Ichigo, he held back his bankai. And as we see more of their abilities and powers, you will notice that they had certain abilities or attacks, they refrained from using because they felt they would not die and there was no need to use such a technique. That is why you saw Kendo and Way of the Ciccida late in the HM arc, and not in the SS arc.

Anyway, I am sure Aizen picks people that compliment him well, not just powerhouses, Its odd that we have seen so much of Tousen, yet so little of Gin.

I think his bankai, will probably be 'castrate him.....shinso. And you see a the shikai come out, then, once it hits the target or is blocked, two blades come out from other angles and attack the target and so forth and so forth. Creatin a multibladed sword he can fight with, that can also be controlled for defensive purposes, much like Jiryias hair, or just a blade that rips you apart.

Im sure he has strong kidou powers, but I dont like seeing kidou used that much unless its last resort, what I really would like to see, is his Vizard form. Would the mask have eye holes, or just slits?

[zero_c]

Wow Ive seen a lot of pitiful ways to measure power, that right there....is quite sad though. Just because someone does not fear death, does not make them strong. I know Kenpachi would love to fight against Yammotto, and he would be killed, but wait, he is not scared in the least bit, so he would win right?

Maybe you should have read the thread before commenting, not one place did I say that because that because he is afraid of death, so he must be weak. All I comment on was on why Aizen choose Gin and Tousen.

In Bleach, a lot of battles have went forth, without the character showing their true skill. You can look at Tousen fighten Kenpachi, he held back from killing.

We have no prove that Tousen held back, the fact that he went Bankai prove he went all out. Plus Kenpachi beat him without removing his eyepatch.

Im sure he has strong kidou powers, but I dont like seeing kidou used that much unless its last resort, what I really would like to see, is his Vizard form. Would the mask have eye holes, or just slits?

Why does everyone assume Gin, Aizen and Tousen are Vaizards?

[Character]

Uhh.. that made very little sense. I know what you were saying, but do you honestly mean in order to fear death, you must fear a person? The answer to that riddle is no. http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6236/smileut4.gif

Hmm..I see what your getting at, but you don't necessarily have to fear a person to fear death. A real life situation for instance. This person doesn't exactly have to fear a single person on this planet, but they don't want to die. You get what I'm saying?

He doesn't have to fear someone, just because he fears death itself. Death itself isn't a being. It can come by many different means, then just from another opponent.

Completely understand what both of you are saying, and that was the beginning of the argument. He CAN fear death itself.

But think about the things that bring death to a shinigami. We obviously don't know all the rules about Shinigami death, but from what we can tell.

1. They are pretty much immortal (Yama over a 1000 years old) so no natural causes.
2. They have illness (which doesn't really make any sense by the way). But there is no indication that illness can kill since Ukitake is ancient as well.

So that leaves...someone killing you. Maybe I have some twisted logic here but it goes like this.

Fear of death --> Can only die by someone killing you ---> Fear of someone

Edit: He could possibly have a deep fear of a boulder falling on his head or getting struck by a royal coach.

[Jay3205]

I think Gin's statistics of 70's across the board reflects his actual power in comparison to other captains, though he may have a bankai that is hard to deal with due to its nature. The (one?) time he opens his eyes is against somebody who is not that powerful, and it would seem that opening his eyes and not smiling would indicate he was being serious, at least for that moment.

[Esca]

Completely understand what both of you are saying, and that was the beginning of the argument. He CAN fear death itself.

But think about the things that bring death to a shinigami. We obviously don't know all the rules about Shinigami death, but from what we can tell.

1. They are pretty much immortal (Yama over a 1000 years old) so no natural causes.
2. They have illness (which doesn't really make any sense by the way). But there is no indication that illness can kill since Ukitake is ancient as well.

So that leaves...someone killing you. Maybe I have some twisted logic here but it goes like this.

Fear of death --> Can only die by someone killing you ---> Fear of someone

Edit: He could possibly have a deep fear of a boulder falling on his head or getting struck by a royal coach.

He's not afraid of how he dies, he's afraid that he will die. I mean, I completely understand what you're saying, but it's very skewed..

Gin's statistics of 70's

80's.

[demorippa]

zaraki said that only gin and tousen were scared of dying.

and i swear to God i remember reading somewhere that the one of the ways to make sure a shinigami is dead is to destroy the head (other than being devoured by a hollow or totally incinerated by a cero blast or kidou)

i think gin is not really afraid of dying but afraid of where he gooes after he dies. maybe he doesnt want to be reincarnated to the human world

[SenpaiRetsu]

I agree on Unohana's and Rangiku's but not on Renji. Here is something that is consistent with Gin's, Unohana's and Rangiku, they would use the unreleased version to fight, and call upon their released version as an attack. While Renji used his released version to fight, and extend it for an attack.



Let's see Gin joined the Gotei 100 years ago, 50 years ago he was still a VC. Hitsu joined the Gotei less than 50 years ago, and yet he is a captain already. So who is more of a prodigy?



How many fights have we seen a shinigami not released to shikai to fight? If Hitsu thought he had no chance in sparing with Gin, then why didn't he go Bankai?



Yet he said to Byakuya "Please forgive him, Rokubantai Taichou, at least I don't want to go against you!"

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/65/14/



The only time that I remember Gin encountering ryoka in the SS arc was at the guardian gate. And I don't remember Chad, Inoune or Ishida on their knees.



Ichigo leaks his spirit pressure and he doesn't use his spirit pressure to push people down.




Are you implying that Gin can take on Yamma?


To respond........

1. Taking this from Undying. Basically Hitsugaya's shikai is better than his bankai. i know it sounds strange but the abilities he gains in shikai are much better than in bankai. in shikai he can freeze anything his sword touches and he can shoot ice beams i believe. In bankai he gets these lame wings and can do thousand years ice prison. Thousand years ice prison is not something he can do in a real fight. maybe if he is on the ground or hiding and the enemy chooses to leave him alone for some time he can pull it off. but the type of battle he had with gin, a real sword fight, at this point he could never pull that off. it's better to conserve the energy it takes to go and use bankai and keep the freeze powers rather than exhaust himself. I'm sure he can fight in shikai indefinitely while in bankai he has a time limit. That's why he didn't go bankai. also he didn't think Gin was all that strong.

2. How does becoming a captain in 50 years make Hitsugaya more of a prodigy than Gin. For all we know which was likely the case there was no openings for quite some time when Gin was strong enough to be a captain. Think about it. The time Gin was still only a third seat u had Aizen who was only a VC was captain level, Tousen was clearly captain level since he wtfpwned 3 captains and their VC's with no effort. Gin was probably easily a VC level at that time. We had Komamura, Tosen, Aizen, Kenpachi, and more for only 3 captain spots (mayuri took uraharas) Clearly Gin wasn't going to get in. That doesn't make him less of a prodigy. Besides it was revealed that he was Aizen's VC for a reason. I'd wager that he was really actually captain level when he was Aizen's VC but Aizen, Gin, nor Tousen showed the Gotei their real strength.

3. That comment he made to Byakuya clearly he was being sarcastic. It was clear by the conversation between Ukitake and Kaien that Gin was more of a prodigy than Byakuya.

4. i'm not implying that that Gin can take on Yama. I'm not even implying that Gin thinks he can take on Yama. I'm implying that Gin is afraid to die, therefore he isn't going to join the losing side or join a side he thinks may lose. I'm saying the the power of Aizen, Gin and Tousen along with the top espada clearly must be enough to pwn half of SS. Hell Aizen alone would pwn Hits, Soifon, and Komamura by himself, without even going bankai. Tousen would be able to beat up on Shunsui or Ukitake with his hax bankai. u see what he did to the other captains. and those were captains that were LOOKING for trouble, meaning they were there to eliminate and enemy so they were on guard. So no excuses for them, they got pwnd fear and square in a 5 vs. 1 match up

6. Gin made the Ryoka squad stop when they tried to help ichigo.

[zero_c]

Basically Hitsugaya's shikai is better than his bankai.

I don't think I even want to respond anymore after reading that. Bankai increase the attack power of the zanpakuto by 5-10 times.

[Esca]

I don't think I even want to respond anymore after reading that. Bankai increase the attack power of the zanpakuto by 5-10 times.

I believe he meant in theory. Toushiro's Bankai is premature and is less versatile than his Shikai. However, his Bankai is an increase in his power despite the problems he occasionally runs into with it; when it's fully developed, it shall, of course, be more "useful".

[zero_c]

I believe he meant in theory. Toushiro's Bankai is premature and is less versatile than his Shikai. However, his Bankai is an increase in his power despite the problems he occasionally runs into with it; when it's fully developed, it shall, of course, be more "useful".

I think no matter how premature a Bankai is, it still trumps their shikai. Look at Ichigo, he barely had his Bankai for 6 months, but I can honestly say his Bankai > Shikai in all scenario.

[Esca]

I think no matter how premature a Bankai is, it still trumps their shikai. Look at Ichigo, he barely had his Bankai for 6 months, but I can honestly say his Bankai > Shikai in all scenario.
Not the case. Hitsugaya's Bankai is still growing as in his Reaitsu is premature, Ichigo's is not.. he's just a novice when it comes to its use.

[zero_c]

Not the case. Hitsugaya's Bankai is still growing as in his Reaitsu is premature, Ichigo's is not.. he's just a novice when it comes to its use.

Hitsugaya reiatsu's rating is at 80, I wouldn't call that premature. And where did Hitsu say his bankai was still growing? If you are going by Shawlong's words, it was already proven wrong.

[Esca]

Hitsugaya reiatsu's rating is at 80, I wouldn't call that premature. And where did Hitsu say his bankai was still growing? If you are going by Shawlong's words, it was already proven wrong.

It was not Shawlong who said it, but his Bankai is still growing and thus premature, like a baby that was born too early. It was stated in the Manga, that I can guarantee.

[zero_c]

It was not Shawlong who said it, but his Bankai is still growing and thus premature, like a baby that was born too early. It was stated in the Manga, that I can guarantee.

I re-read thru most of the chapters after the introduction of Hitsu, and there was only one mention of his Bankai being incomplete and that was from Shawlong.

Also if you did a google "Hitsugaya incomplete Bankai", every results points to the incident with Shawlong.


Gin made the Ryoka squad stop when they tried to help ichigo.

This never happened in the manga. Gin had 2 encounter with the ryoka group, once at the gate and once at the hill, neither case did he stop any of them from helping Ichigo.

[Esca]

I re-read thru most of the chapters after the introduction of Hitsu, and there was only one mention of his Bankai being incomplete and that was from Shawlong.

I see.. but wasn't Shawlong only proven wrong concerning the petals, as it seems? If you re-read through most of Hitsugaya chapters, you will notice that his Bankai his consuming more and more of his body.. hence growth.

Hm.. I could swear, however, that someone else stated it...

[SenpaiRetsu]

I don't think I even want to respond anymore after reading that. Bankai increase the attack power of the zanpakuto by 5-10 times.

His bankai is premature...........

5-10 increase from unreleased we don't know how much of an increase from shikai.......

Ichigo's bankai is entirely different from his shikai. his shikai is just gt.

his bankai is GT+Super speed+Super endurance

When Ichigo's bankai was premature it broke his bones. Hitsugaya's bankai is also premature, it exhaust him.

His shikai is more useful not more powerful. it gives him a balance of attack and not exhaust him. his bankai is relatively "big" and makes him basically pass out after use.

[thirsty]

back on topic tho, what about Gin's bankai? DUN DUN DUN!!!!!! really it has to be deadly, cuz if his sword just get's even longer i will seriously quit watching bleach and just ask someone one day did Ichigo ever kill Aizen lol. but seriously there's too much of a mystery about him, with many little implyings of his skill and strength but no actual action to back them up, there has to be something more, a bigger picture we haven't seen yet.

[nx6]

What about that flashback scene with Momo, Renji, and Kira still in the academy and Gin cut through the heads of three hollows with one thrust? There had to be some skill in there.

OT again: User named "thirsty" answers question "how powerful is Gin?". :Haha

[Ken-Chan_88]

I think that scene was just a well aimed shikai. He had to destroy these hollows fast. Afteral they were aizen-taicho's pets