Nnoitra vs Ichigo [Manga Spoilers]

[Tensa Tensho]

Nnoitra vs Ichigo

-Battle in heuco mundo

-Ichigo ca use his vizard mask for the same amount of time as he did with grimmjow

-Nnoitra cant regenerate any wounds or lost limbs

Discuss Away

[moonflow]

would be a fun fight to watch.
if ichigo was at 100% he'd take it, but only just.
because lets see, well its ichigo....
also ichigo > kenpachi
so vaizardichi > kendopachi

[xxBluebird]

So... it's current Ichigo vs Nnoitra?

I would still say that Noit wins. Sorry Ichigo... but Ichigo only barely won against Grimmjow [PLOTKAIII~~ xD ], who is 6th. And Noit is... 5th, right? So if the Espada rankings apply, then I think Ichigo at his current level will still not be able to defeat Noit.

Although, by that logic, Ichigo will be absolutely pwned by Ulqy during the Winter War, which he won't be. But then again, Ulq said that occasionally Ichigo's reiatsu will surpass his. I'm assuming that means when Ichigo's in his hollow form... but this is for another thread. ^^;

[Seff]

Nnoitra can't hit Ichigo but i highly doubt Tensa Zangetsu can pierce Nnoitra's hierro.

So... some kind of wierd draw then?

[Zanga]

So... it's current Ichigo vs Nnoitra?

I would still say that Noit wins. Sorry Ichigo... but Ichigo only barely won against Grimmjow [PLOTKAIII~~ xD ], who is 6th. And Noit is... 5th, right? So if the Espada rankings apply, then I think Ichigo at his current level will still not be able to defeat Noit.

Although, by that logic, Ichigo will be absolutely pwned by Ulqy during the Winter War, which he won't be. But then again, Ulq said that occasionally Ichigo's reiatsu will surpass his. I'm assuming that means when Ichigo's in his hollow form... but this is for another thread. ^^;


When a plotkai happens...a plotkai stays, so the opponent Noitra is about to fight is the same guy who basically brushed off Grimmjaw's strongest attacks and is about to beat Ulq(sadly). If Kenpachi can 'get used to his hierro', I don't see Vaizard Bankai Ichigo can't.

[smach]

Also, keep in mind that Ichigo's stamina was all good till when he had to cover for Orihime and went emo coz she was afraid of him. The only attack grimjow had that could injure Ichigo was the stakes, which he was FORCED to take.

If he grows a pair then he may even one-shot him.

[SenpaiRetsu]

Ichigo takes this easily......... how would Nnoitora even be able to land a hit on a healthy Ichigo? Ur gonna tell me KGT's can't hurt Nnoitora? KGT= grand rey cero since he countered grimmjaw's with it easily. He can pull this attack mutiple times with little effort. Nnoitora get's butchered

[KholdStare]

Yea, I feel as well that Ichigo probably has this one. Ichigo's superior speed would probably help him evade nearly all of Nnoitora's attacks. Nnoitora's release probably doesn't offer much help to him since all it probably does is increase his "firepower".

[B-Eazy]

Ichi wins. Like they ^ said speed is too much, Ichi's destructive power has just been increased in anime since he just stopped Girmm in his tracks. I believe he could pierce Nnoit. I think Grimm would actually be more of a challenge for Ichigo.

[Chi]

while i like Ichigo for the win here, Nnoitra only fought a battered Ichigo, Chad and kempachi. But still he was stronger then Grimmjow to be ranked higher then he was. Plus his release has that instant regeneration and hardens his heiro and makes his offensive power that much greater... i don't think Ichigo will win this easily the dude has six arms his defense is great because he can go on the offense while still in defense.

Ichigo will take this victory but he will take some hits the same way Zaraki took some hits xD

[Rayster]

Nnoitra can't hit Ichigo but i highly doubt Tensa Zangetsu can pierce Nnoitra's hierro. So... some kind of wierd draw then?
Agreed. I don't see this as a clear win to either, so good battle suggestion.

The point was raised multiple times that Ichigo's speed would get him over the line. The fact that Nnoitora has six arms tend to belly the belief that he would be able to block attacks due to superiority of the number of arms rather than his speed. He can wield many weapons as once for both defensive, and counters when Ichigo gets close. Ichigo may be too fast to avoid the counter but his speed won't be enough to get a deadly hit in considering

- Nnoitora's hierro
- Nnoitora's extra arms

Also, people tend to forget that Nnoitora's speed was never gauged in the Zaraki fight. It didn't matter how much faster Nnoitora was, this is Kenpachi. He takes attacks from Captains and stands. Ichigo is defeated quite regurarly with these sort of attacks.

So Nnoitora's speed could have been superior to Zaraki's - enough so that he can at least block Ichigo and simultaneously send a counter. Ichigo has no hierro.

Of course at the same time Ichigo's raw Vaizard strength which saw him just barely scrape past Grimmjow, who took major hits without a strong a hierro as Nnoitora shows that he too can deliver damage.

I seem to be leaning towards Nnoitora through the progress of evidence.

[smach]

Noitora doesn't have anything this powerful:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/281/13/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/281/14/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/281/15/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/281/16/

All of which didn't phase Ichigo the slightest.


What phased Ichigo, you ask?
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/282/17/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/282/18/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/282/19/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/283/02/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/283/03/

Grimmjow was already worn out from struggling with Ichigo, and gained the upper hand when he f*cked Ichigo up with his micro-torpedoes.


Noitora's hierro shouldn't be significantly stronger than Grimmjow's, and his released form focuses on extra arms and rapid regeneration; no power upgrade, at least not significant enough to be considered a powerup. The only part of his body that can be said to gain some form of defensive strength is his arms, which seem to get a hard layer or shell like Grimmjow does on most of his body. He also seems to gain the same kind of protection on his sides from his pelvis to right below his ribcage.

There's nothing that even hints that his speed and strength are significantly beyond Grimmjow, so...yeah, Ichigo wins.

[Zanga]

Uhm, all you've shown is Grimmjaw destroying a whole lot of structure. So please explain to me how Nnoitra who sues a weapon that cuts you supposed to show the buildings beneath them crumble. You don't get sent flying from a cut or slash, you stand your ground a bleed.

And about Nnoitra's speed, doesn't seem like it's worthless to me =\

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/311/09/

He jumped up there pretty fast right after dodging Ken's attack. Though the speed is not comparable to VB Ichigo, it shows he's not a sitting duck.

And even though Ichigo can take a whole lost of Physical damage, over the course of the manga we've seen Ichigo...uhm..always get cut?.. Was there ever a time in his manga where someone failed to cut him? I'm pretty sure if Nnoitra can slice up a building effortlessly, he can cut Ichigo.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/311/10/

Noitora's hierro shouldn't be significantly stronger than Grimmjow's, and his released form focuses on extra arms and rapid regeneration; no power upgrade

First of all, you're just assuming that his release just focuses on extra arms, but I'm pretty sure his reaitsu sky-rocketed when he released. Hell, it made Zaraki smile like he's never smiled before, and I'm willing to bet Reaitsu = hierro. Second of all, whether his hierro is much greater or not that much greater then Grimmjow's isn't really important. Why? Vaizard bankai Ichigo fails to cut Grimmjaw. In that whole battle, Ichigo only cut Released Grimmjow once and that is ONLY because he raised his reaitsu enough to make Grimmjaw studder giving his an opportunity to strike, then shown in the scan below, Ichigo has a clear shot but it doesn't pierce but causes nothing but sparks. If Ichigo has to raise his reaitsu every single time to cut Grimmjaw, what luck will he have against a released Noitra?

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/282/15/

The only part of his body that can be said to gain some form of defensive strength is his arms, which seem to get a hard layer or shell like Grimmjow does on most of his body. He also seems to gain the same kind of protection on his sides from his pelvis to right below his ribcage.

Hierro = SteelSkin. No matter where you strike, it's still going to be a pointless attack. All you did was list points on his body that Ichigo can probably never cut.

[Chi]

As much as it pains me to say this I somewhat agree with Zanga >.>

Like Decado said due to evidence shown Nnoitra seems to be holding a slight advantage against Ichigo

He is fast on his feet, and he is greater then Grimmjow. His heiro isn't only the hardest of the espada but he can instantly regenerate any wounds he receives, assuming you get one on him, Ichigo has no such abilities.

Plus as fast as grimmjow was he still wasn't rated faster then Zomari. Shunpo/sonido = speed not overall speed > Shunpo they are one in the same. So as far as can be told Grimmjow may not be significantly faster then Nnoitra and is obviously weaker in terms of attack power and reiatsu. So... to use the battle between Grimmjow and Ichigo to boost Ichigo's status against a person who's superior to Grimmjow is flawed for some many reasons.

[smach]

Uhm, all you've shown is Grimmjaw destroying a whole lot of structure. So please explain to me how Nnoitra who sues a weapon that cuts you supposed to show the buildings beneath them crumble. You don't get sent flying from a cut or slash, you stand your ground a bleed.What I showed you were the capabilities of Grimmjow's attacks and techniques, which don't compare to jumping up and cutting part of a building. To me doesn't make sense to assume a mere sword will cause more damage than five torpedoes, each of which has enough power to DESTROY AN ENTIRE BUILDING, or that a sword is more effective than splitting an entire building in half from the top to ground zero with nothing more than your opponent's body.

Also, that first attack that sent Ichigo flying through multiple buildings was directly to the head, yet he was able to keep going like nothing had happened. Same with the time he was sent to the ground by Grimm's uber spinning tail hit. The only time Zaraki was hit above the shoulder was right before he used Kendo. He doesn't have amazing skin either, so I doubt that took alot of effort for Noitora to accomplish.

And about Nnoitra's speed, doesn't seem like it's worthless to me =

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/311/09/


He jumped up there pretty fast right after dodging Ken's attack. Though the speed is not comparable to VB Ichigo, it shows he's not a sitting duck.Kinda looks like he may have been sent flying by Zaraki, but w/e.

And even though Ichigo can take a whole lost of Physical damage, over the course of the manga we've seen Ichigo...uhm..always get cut?.. Was there ever a time in his manga where someone failed to cut him? I'm pretty sure if Nnoitra can slice up a building effortlessly, he can cut Ichigo.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/311/10/Uh, sure...coz a scythe is much faster and stronger than a bunch of mini-torpedoes, right?

Newayz, Ichigo only powered down after getting nailed by five of those stakes and going emo because of Orihime. I'm pretty sure that dodging a couple swords isn't gonna be much of a feat for him...especially when they don't even come close to SKY's speed.

First of all, you're just assuming that his release just focuses on extra arms, but I'm pretty sure his reaitsu sky-rocketed when he released. Hell, it made Zaraki smile like he's never smiled before, and I'm willing to bet Reaitsu = hierro. Second of all, whether his hierro is much greater or not that much greater then Grimmjow's isn't really important. Why? Vaizard bankai Ichigo fails to cut Grimmjaw. In that whole battle, Ichigo only cut Released Grimmjow once and that is ONLY because he raised his reaitsu enough to make Grimmjaw studder giving his an opportunity to strike, then shown in the scan below, Ichigo has a clear shot but it doesn't pierce but causes nothing but sparks. If Ichigo has to raise his reaitsu every single time to cut Grimmjaw, what luck will he have against a released Noitra?

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/282/15/Grimmjow was defending himself and attacking with his arms and legs. The rest of his body was still vulnerable to attacks, hence why you never saw the body attacks result in no injury. And that wasn't nothing but sparks...Ichigo did penetrate, and he wasn't exactly trying his best either. He was using the same amount of strength (or less) as when he cut Grimm's chest open.

Grimmjow had the speed to cover for his body and defend his back; I don't think jumping on in the air puts you on the same level as him.

Hierro = SteelSkin. No matter where you strike, it's still going to be a pointless attack. All you did was list points on his body that Ichigo can probably never cut.I don't get why you're so confident that Ichigo can't cut Noitora, simply coz he's got hierro. Grimmjow also had hierro...so did Zomari...and Szayel as well. All I'm saying is even though the hierro was arguably stronger than Grimmjow's, the release didn't boost it much higher like it did for Grimmjow.

And if Noitora's release is so omgwtfbbq amazing then how come we never saw Zaraki swing at his body with no effect? And why was Zaraki still overpowering him almost every time their swords clashed?

Plus as fast as grimmjow was he still wasn't rated faster then Zomari. Shunpo/sonido = speed not overall speed > Shunpo they are one in the same. So as far as can be told Grimmjow may not be significantly faster then Nnoitra and is obviously weaker in terms of attack power and reiatsu. So... to use the battle between Grimmjow and Ichigo to boost Ichigo's status against a person who's superior to Grimmjow is flawed for some many reasons.Okay you're confusing me with this one.

Zomari gave himself the title of being the fastest...I thought we were already over this.

What makes you think Noitora is at Grimm's level in speed?

The only effective part of Noitora's release was his regeneration, which was almost instant, meaning you have to keep dealing blows the whole time...or just use one strong attack. How does that make him obviously stronger in terms of attack power?

[Haseo]

Okay you're confusing me with this one.

The Speed of Sonido/Shunpo =/= Overall Speed as it's an ability. Zomari has the fastest Sonido, not the fastest overall speed.

Rankings really mean nothing as Aizen doesn't care; this has been presented and proven several times.

[Undying]

Clear victory to Ichigo =/

Ichigo's cutting power shouldn't be much below Zaraki's one-handed strikes, and since Zaraki easily sliced off Nnoitora's limbs, Ichigo should have even less of a problem.

Any speed Nnoitora has is negligible when compared to Ichigo's demonstrated speed, unless of course someone wants to make the claim Nnoitora has super speed?

For those that claim Ichigo isn't able to cut Grimmjow (lol, and slicing Ichigo in nearly two doesn't count as "cutting"?), Grimmjow was blocking Ichigo with those things on his forearms.

Ichigo takes this and rather easily.

[Dark Fire]

not to mention that towards the end of the Grim/Ichi fight, Ichigo's mask comes of and is still able to catch Grimjaw in his released form one handed, one handed w/ no extra Visard powers.

Ichigo pwn Nnoitra face on this one....

[Chi]

@Esca: I totally disagree dude, Shunpo and sonido are defined as the ability to move faster then the eye can see. So any speed attained where your moving so fast that you can't be seen is still defined as shunko/sonido. So therefore any overall speed would logically be defined as shunpo. For instance look at Shunsui's shunpo he seemed to go several hundred meters on a single step to get Nanoa to a safe place. Also, notice Ichigo's ability to make after images is not far superior then Zomari's.

I think what was meant by "I see you've mastered shunpo" wasn't that there was a definite limit to it but more that he has increased his speed to the point where he could keep up with Byakuya's shunpo in a fight. Not that his shunpo coudlnt' get any faster.

@Darkfire: Plot-kai, pure plot kai.

[IRLaughingMan]

Too lazy to go look up the chapters but wasn't Nnoitra previously like number 8 Espada or something? So if he were to somehow jump up several numbers based on his actions surrounding Nell or w/e caused his ascention in the Espada ranks wouldn't that already call into question his strength and skill and ability? Furthermore, I know in one of the chapters Nnoitra or Nell points out that he [Nnoitra] has a tendancy to attack those who are already beaten or suffering damage. I.E. Chad, Grimmy, Ichi. Also it has always been my understanding that although the number scheme for Espada is more directly related to strength/ability than the numbers of the Gotei. However I also don't think that the numbers are strictly based off of 'pure power'. Each of the Espada so far has shown a certain level of individuality that gave them their own strength; Szayl with his science, Zomari with his speed, Grimmy with his power and ferocity, Nnoitra with his defense, etc. So I think with a good resolve to 'cut, save his friends, and not be cut' Ichi's Tensa Zangetsu is plenty sharp enough to cut through Nnoitra's hierro. It's relativly accepted Nnoitra, while possibly fast, still couldn't match speed with Bankai/Vizard Ichi, and so with Resolve, Bankai/Vaizard power/speed, and the temperance of zangetsu 'to cut' Ichi in full health would mop the floor with Nnoitra.

[Undying]

@Esca: I totally disagree dude, Shunpo and sonido are defined as the ability to move faster then the eye can see. So any speed attained where your moving so fast that you can't be seen is still defined as shunko/sonido. So therefore any overall speed would logically be defined as shunpo. For instance look at Shunsui's shunpo he seemed to go several hundred meters on a single step to get Nanoa to a safe place. Also, notice Ichigo's ability to make after images is not far superior then Zomari's.

I think what was meant by "I see you've mastered shunpo" wasn't that there was a definite limit to it but more that he has increased his speed to the point where he could keep up with Byakuya's shunpo in a fight. Not that his shunpo coudlnt' get any faster.
Sonido/Shunpo = movement speed. And by that it means "one's ability to cross distances". Zomari's Sonido was the "fastest" (supposedly) so his ability to cross distances was the greatest among the Espada. It's got nothing to do with attack or reaction speed =/.

@Darkfire: Plot-kai, pure plot kai.
They were both exhausted. It's not plotkai. There's nothing inexplicable about stabbing your opponent in the chest after you've both exhausted yourself through a prolonged fight.
Too lazy to go look up the chapters but wasn't Nnoitra previously like number 8 Espada or something? So if he were to somehow jump up several numbers based on his actions surrounding Nell or w/e caused his ascention in the Espada ranks wouldn't that already call into question his strength and skill and ability? Furthermore, I know in one of the chapters Nnoitra or Nell points out that he [Nnoitra] has a tendancy to attack those who are already beaten or suffering damage. I.E. Chad, Grimmy, Ichi. Also it has always been my understanding that although the number scheme for Espada is more directly related to strength/ability than the numbers of the Gotei. However I also don't think that the numbers are strictly based off of 'pure power'. Each of the Espada so far has shown a certain level of individuality that gave them their own strength; Szayl with his science, Zomari with his speed, Grimmy with his power and ferocity, Nnoitra with his defense, etc. So I think with a good resolve to 'cut, save his friends, and not be cut' Ichi's Tensa Zangetsu is plenty sharp enough to cut through Nnoitra's hierro. It's relativly accepted Nnoitra, while possibly fast, still couldn't match speed with Bankai/Vizard Ichi, and so with Resolve, Bankai/Vaizard power/speed, and the temperance of zangetsu 'to cut' Ichi in full health would mop the floor with Nnoitra.

Rankings among the Espada are based on "killing ability". It has absolutely nothing to do with power, or Yammy would have ranked higher than Szayel because his battle powers are greater. But Szayel's killing ability is greater and that's why he is the higher ranked.

Higher rank is not automatic greater power, at least not until the top four. After that we've seen nothing.

[Chi]

Sonido/Shunpo = movement speed. And by that it means "one's ability to cross distances". Zomari's Sonido was the "fastest" (supposedly) so his ability to cross distances was the greatest among the Espada. It's got nothing to do with attack or reaction speed =/.We're pretty much in accord here except the bold part, where i never said that it was :confused:
They were both exhausted. It's not plotkai. There's nothing inexplicable about stabbing your opponent in the chest after you've both exhausted yourself through a prolonged fight.It seems a little too convenient that when he was about to get killed by grimmjow that Orihime yells telling him not to die and then poof he has the power to slice grimmjow and withstand that last attack i don't remember what it was called... just a little too convenient. He should have been like that the whole fight unless he's a closet masochist.

[IRLaughingMan]

It seems a little too convenient that when he was about to get killed by grimmjow that Orihime yells telling him not to die and then poof he has the power to slice grimmjow and withstand that last attack i don't remember what it was called... just a little too convenient. He should have been like that the whole fight unless he's a closet masochist.

This is a recurring role for Ichigo. It is his tendency to lose and then find and regain his 'resolve' or his fighting spirit. Ichigo is the type of char. that the writer wants readers to empathize with and so gives him more emotions than most. Ichigo is disheartened and made weaker by the lack of faith of Orihime, he is weaker because his will to fight has been diminished by that broken bond. Only when Orihime finds her own resolve and supports Ichi is he then of a single mind to defeat an enemy with his full fighting will. Again, this is beaten to death that Ichi is governed by plotkai but he seriously is and to use him in much of a way to prove a 'power' point is relatively null.

[Undying]

[INDENT]We're pretty much in accord here except the bold part, where i never said that it was :confused:
Hurr?
So therefore any overall speed would logically be defined as shunpo.
"Overall speed"? "Overall speed" would refer to just that, overall - movement, reaction, thinking, etc...
It seems a little too convenient that when he was about to get killed by grimmjow that Orihime yells telling him not to die and then poof he has the power to slice grimmjow and withstand that last attack i don't remember what it was called... just a little too convenient. He should have been like that the whole fight unless he's a closet masochist.

The whole "resolve" business was started back in Renji's fight. Regardless of how much damage Ichigo takes, even when his muscles are ripped, he can continue moving and fighting as long as he has a resolve to protect his friends or people in general he can continue fighting.

Since Orihime was there, his resolve had a more centered focal to it - one of his friends are directly in front of him and are in need of protection. So that's why he was able to continue fighting through a few more minutes... just like he was able to shoot out a Getsuga and swing his hand despite having ripped muscles.

As for Desugraon, it's fairly useless when used the way Grimmjow used it (he was probably getting desperate - he had two deep cuts on his torso which are probably quite dangerous to his health), because Ichigo could cut along them and hit him one more time.

It would have been plotkai if Ichigo received a formerly unknown, completely unrelated power-upgrade. Like say for example if he suddenly grew horns on his Vaizard mask and doubled his power through the insane power of killer instinct or something.

Resolve and the need to defend his friend who is right in front of him are well known attributes that have been around for ages.

And I don't want to tread the shipping grounds, but Orihime is probably subtly more important than Chad or Ishida, so when she told him that she "didn't want him to get hurt anymore" it got his desire to win higher.

[Chi]

Hurr?

"Overall speed"? "Overall speed" would refer to just that, overall - movement, reaction, thinking, etc... oh... yah sorry what i meant was sometimes people in the past made a refrence to Ichigo's shunko as a seperate from his bankai speed, i think it can all be define as shunpo. That's what i meant.
The whole "resolve" business was started back in Renji's fight. Regardless of how much damage Ichigo takes, even when his muscles are ripped, he can continue moving and fighting as long as he has a resolve to protect his friends or people in general he can continue fighting.

Since Orihime was there, his resolve had a more centered focal to it - one of his friends are directly in front of him and are in need of protection. So that's why he was able to continue fighting through a few more minutes... just like he was able to shoot out a Getsuga and swing his hand despite having ripped muscles.

As for Desugraon, it's fairly useless when used the way Grimmjow used it (he was probably getting desperate - he had two deep cuts on his torso which are probably quite dangerous to his health), because Ichigo could cut along them and hit him one more time.

It would have been plotkai if Ichigo received a formerly unknown, completely unrelated power-upgrade. Like say for example if he suddenly grew horns on his Vaizard mask and doubled his power through the insane power of killer instinct or something.

Resolve and the need to defend his friend who is right in front of him are well known attributes that have been around for ages.

And I don't want to tread the shipping grounds, but Orihime is probably subtly more important than Chad or Ishida, so when she told him that she "didn't want him to get hurt anymore" it got his desire to win higher.I can respect that cause now that you mentioned it was very reminiscent of his fight with renji where he was really losing but his resolve saved him. *tip of the hat*

Still though i wouldn't say that Ichigo wins easily... he wins but he takes a few hard hits.

[Undying]

[INDENT]oh... yah sorry what i meant was sometimes people in the past made a refrence to Ichigo's shunko as a seperate from his bankai speed, i think it can all be define as shunpo. That's what i meant.
I think you meant shunpo speed ;). And I believe that we both agree that Ichigo's movement speed is also part of his bankai. Since Shunpo is movement speed, it's also amplified by his bankai.
I can respect that cause now that you mentioned it was very reminiscent of his fight with renji where he was really losing but his resolve saved him. *tip of the hat*

Still though i wouldn't say that Ichigo wins easily... he wins but he takes a few hard hits.
I doubt anyone can fight any of the higher-ranked Espada without taking on a few hits... Grimmjow, Nnoitora, Ulqiorra, Stark, Baligan, Halibel - those guys are probably more than enough to make anyone hurt over beating them.

[smach]

@Darkfire: Plot-kai, pure plot kai.They were both exhausted. It's not plotkai. There's nothing inexplicable about stabbing your opponent in the chest after you've both exhausted yourself through a prolonged fight.Also you need to remember that Grimm's armor was concentrated on his limbs, which is why he only attacked and defended with his arms and legs.

It seems a little too convenient that when he was about to get killed by grimmjow that Orihime yells telling him not to die and then poof he has the power to slice grimmjow and withstand that last attack i don't remember what it was called... just a little too convenient. He should have been like that the whole fight unless he's a closet masochist.All you gotta do is accept that Ichigo emo and his emo-ness will always result in an increase/decrease of power. Think of it as gaining resolve to wtfpwn Renji or Ikkaku.

[ninjabot]

I vote in favor of Nnoitora aswell, but I don't consider his speed relevant to the fight at all. Ichigo is definately faster (I still consider Ichigo faster than Grimm if only by a bit, but that's another thread).

It'd essenially be akin to a hornet vs. a tortoise. Ichigo will bat at Noitora continuously, causeing the occasional knick or scratch while pushing a blocking Noitora around due the almost insignificant difference in power, but never effectively dealing a severe hit until KGT is used, which unfortunately only severs a replaceable limb or two. And the more KGT's are shot, the weaker he gets (Grimm said something about 3 to 4 shots before Ichigo is spent). Also, how many palms through the chest could Ichigo endure before keeling over? Just saying, if Ichigo gets in close he won't be expecting a hand to pop out and stab him in the torso.

Attacking Noitora's back is his best bet, and he has the speed to do so, but when his sword scratches against his back Noitora could turn and grab him (swinging at close range with those scythes wouldn't be effective as the blades couldn't touch). If he grabs him, nothings stopping him from close-range Cero-ing him in the face.

[smach]

Noitora's reflexes and speed are definitely below Byakuya's so...no, I don't see him stopping Ichigo's sword or landing a hit from nowhere.

Ichigo's lack of power was coz of his inability to efficiently use his bankai, as well as Ogichi taking over his power.

PS: palms <<< stakes

[captainmawaluigi]

I see Ichigo winning this. He proved vs Grimm he can fight the nitty gritty battles and take some strong blows.

Oh, when Grimm said, you can only fire off 3-4 Getsuga Tenshos, that was a while back before Ichigo trained, and it wasnt that he couldnt fire off more...it was that, if he fired off more without winning the battle...then his Hollow side would take over.

Nnoritas range can be negated by Ichigos speed, we saw how Ichigo got in a few nice slashes by being just a step faster than Grimmjow

[ninjabot]

After Noitora wears down Ichigo by enduring all of his blows and regenerating his lost limbs, Ichigo will begin to get sluggish. That's when Noitora will grab ahold of his sword and go Chuck Lidell on him.

And those spikes of Grimmjow's don't explode, burrow through the body, or consist of a voletile poison. They just hurt...that's it. Stabbing a hand through someone has so many more distructive possibilities.

1:Fire a Cero while your hand is through the enemy to evaporate them ala Grimmjow.
2:Grab a handful of vital organs as a parting gift ala Kano from Mortal Kombat.
3:Hold onto the opponent and beat the tar out of them ala Goro from Mortal Kombat.

Yeah. Hand through the chest>>>spike torpedoes.

The thing here is that while Ichigo IS faster than Byakuya, he doesn't have the ability to wear away at Noitorra's Hierro by keeping a continuous assault up. Again, he only gets 3 or 4 KGT's and a few minutes of Vizardation before he's done.

[smach]

Those puny stakes were strong enough to obliterate buildings. I don't think a hand will be enough to inflict that much damage.

Your basis for those "3 or 4 KGT's" is the first Grimmjow encounter when Ogichi was devouring Ichigo's soul, right?

At this point in time, there's no telling how long his mask will last.

[Jeggo]

Those puny stakes were strong enough to obliterate buildings. I don't think a hand will be enough to inflict that much damage.



The stakes obviously have more destructive power than a hand. But think of it like this.

A punch hurts more than a strike with one's finger does it not?

Stil if I stick my finger in your eye , won't it be more painful than punching you?


It's like this. The stake is more damaging than a hand , but if a hand is used correctly *points at ninjabot's 3 examples* it could stil do more damage or at least give an advantage to the attacker - crushing vital organs is no fun you know? :)

But , after all so this is Bleach. I guess anyone could survive with his guts turned to dust ^.^

[smach]

Plus this is Noitora we're talking about, not some experienced fighter using moves from kill bill or crouching tiger hidden dragon.

[Undying]

The stakes obviously have more destructive power than a hand. But think of it like this.

A punch hurts more than a strike with one's finger does it not?

Stil if I stick my finger in your eye , won't it be more painful than punching you?
The example is completely unrelated to the situation at hand.

The stake is more like a crossbow bolt to a fist than a finger to a hand. If I punch you in the gut, it'll hurt, but if I shoot you with a crossbow bolt in the gut, you're dead.

Same here.

After Noitora wears down Ichigo by enduring all of his blows and regenerating his lost limbs, Ichigo will begin to get sluggish. That's when Noitora will grab ahold of his sword and go Chuck Lidell on him.
Would he be able to endure all his blows? Can Nnoiotra regenerate his head? His legs, even?

Ichigo will kill Nnoitora long before Nnoitora has a chance to exploit Ichigo's alleged "slowing".

And those spikes of Grimmjow's don't explode, burrow through the body, or consist of a voletile poison. They just hurt...that's it. Stabbing a hand through someone has so many more distructive possibilities.
They destroyed a building, which is a lot more than Nnoitora's hands did. The spikes cause far more damage than Nnoitora's base attacks, and Ichigo's attacks are stronger than they.

1:Fire a Cero while your hand is through the enemy to evaporate them ala Grimmjow.
You need to get your hand into the enemy first. Ichigo is not Zaraki, he won't be standing over Nnoitora waiting for him to regenerate and stake him.
2:Grab a handful of vital organs as a parting gift ala Kano from Mortal Kombat.
Same as above. Doesn't work.
3:Hold onto the opponent and beat the tar out of them ala Goro from Mortal Kombat.
Could be, unless they slice your hand off.

Yeah. Hand through the chest>>>spike torpedoes.
The torpedoes cause WAY more damage and can be fired continually. They also do not depend on your opponent being a retarded clown.

Yeah. Spiked torpedoes that level buildings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand.

The thing here is that while Ichigo IS faster than Byakuya, he doesn't have the ability to wear away at Noitorra's Hierro by keeping a continuous assault up. Again, he only gets 3 or 4 KGT's and a few minutes of Vizardation before he's done.
One VKG was enough to hurl Ulqiorra through the building. I guarantee that Nnoitora has way less power than Ulqiorra or even Grimmjow.

One or two VKG is all it will take to reduce Nnoitora to a pile of bleeding remains that will die from a stab in the chest.

[Slasher]

Even without Ichigo's strongest weapon(plotkai), I'm pretty sure he'd win this.

First off, Zaraki Kenpachi is a man that likes fighting, he often wants to see whoever he fights at full strenght, and will never go for the kill early, because he enjoys it, fighting. Ichigo is not this type of character, he'll go all out since the beginning, and he can take quite alot of punishment.

Ichigo's speed will cause alot of trouble to Nnoitra, and a good vaizard GT will wipe Nnoit out for good once he's taken enough punishment. Also, Ichigo's vaizard powers seem to increase with every opponent he takes on, if he were to fight again, the time he'd have his vaizard mask might be double of what it was against Grimmjow.

[mishaxelle]

Yeah Ichigo would probably win but after getting pretty beat up. If Ichigo beat Kenpachi without even having his vaizard powers or bankai or much experience on him back in Soul Society and Kenpachi beat Nnoitora without much, Ichigo can definitely beat espada cinco, even though Nnoitora is an awesome BEAST ;]

[xxSenbozakura]

Ichigo's Shunpo is going to put Nnoitra at a great disadvantage, Nnoitra has the ability to underestimate his opponents like what he did with Chad, if he does the same with ichigo, he is as good as dead cos ichigo goes all out from the beginning and I dont think Nnoitra will survive a Vizard GT :nono:.

If we take away Nnoitra ability to regenerate just as the thread suggested then all ichigo has to do is chop all of his arms and legs and administer his killing blow.

Even if Nnoitra's hierro is the hardest of all the espada, i sincerely think a captain class opponent (maybe except hitsugaya :Haha) can cut him

[KholdStare]

I only have one qualm with your post and it is this:

I dont think Nnoitra will survive a Vizard GT

Noitora survived a kendo hit from Zaraki after getting beat down by Nell. What makes you think he wouldn't survive a Vaizard GT? Grimmjow unreleased took one. Sure he got a scar from it, but Nnoitora does have the toughest Hierro.

[Undying]

I only have one qualm with your post and it is this:

Noitora survived a kendo hit from Zaraki after getting beat down by Nell. What makes you think he wouldn't survive a Vaizard GT? Grimmjow unreleased took one. Sure he got a scar from it, but Nnoitora does have the toughest Hierro.
Ok... couple mistakes here...

Nnoitora didn't "survive" a Kendo hit from Zaraki. Nnoitora got killed by a Kendo hit from Zaraki.

Grimmjow took on a normal GT and was scarred deeply despite not being very damaged.

When Grimmjow took on Vaizard GT, was was practically smothered but not beaten.

Anyway, Nnoitora would survive one Vaizard GT, probably. But it would never get to the point where Ichigo unleashes one, since he would simply cut Nnoitora's head off long before our friendly neighborhood mantis has a chance to consider any course of action at all.

You know, he is many times faster than Nnoitora and he has more power than mantis-boy...

It's really a linear deduction, actually. Shikai Ichigo =~ Zaraki one hand. Bankai Ichigo + Vaizard ~=Zaraki Kendo. Stick that sword in Nnoitora's eye and blast a GT. Let's see Mr. Toughest Ierro survive that.

[Papercuts]

Ichigo can take this easy if Nnoitra cant regen in his realse form...Ichigo's speed is way to fast for nnoitra and he would domlish him. Now if he has his insane regen then it would be another story I would only see ichigo barley winning there and taking a beating for it as well.

[AnimeMistress]

Nnoitra vs Ichigo

-Battle in heuco mundo

-Ichigo ca use his vizard mask for the same amount of time as he did with grimmjow

-Nnoitra cant regenerate any wounds or lost limbs

Discuss Away

Well, from the way you put it there.. It seems Ichigo would definitely win this battle... :: nods ::

[KholdStare]

Ok... couple mistakes here...

Nnoitora didn't "survive" a Kendo hit from Zaraki. Nnoitora got killed by a Kendo hit from Zaraki.



http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/312/06/

I think Zaraki makes it quite clear he did survive the hit when he asks him the rhetorical question: "You're still alive huh?"

[Undying]

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/312/06/

I think Zaraki makes it quite clear he did survive the hit when he asks him the rhetorical question: "You're still alive huh?"

lol.

So when a person is dying and then gets killed by a little swing of a sword, it means they "survived" something?

By that logic Ishida "survived" Mayuri's poison. Were it not for Nemu giving him the antidote he would have died. But hey, living a couple seconds after that counts as surviving, eh? :cm:

Nnoitora didn't survive that Kendo slash. He simply didn't die all the way.

[KholdStare]

lol.

So when a person is dying and then gets killed by a little swing of a sword, it means they "survived" something?



A little swing of the sword huh? That "little" swing of the sword is equivalent to a hit with a bankai. Especially when Kenpachi doesn't have his patch on.


By that logic Ishida "survived" Mayuri's poison. Were it not for Nemu giving him the antidote he would have died. But hey, living a couple seconds after that counts as surviving, eh? :cm:

Unlike the poison, the kendo doesn't continue to affect you once it's been "administered".


Nnoitora didn't survive that Kendo slash. He simply didn't die all the way.

Yup, he didn't "survive" it alright :rolleye:

[Undying]

A little swing of the sword huh? That "little" swing of the sword is equivalent to a hit with a bankai. Especially when Kenpachi doesn't have his patch on.
Talk about overestimating Zaraki :cm:. The hit was equivalent to a shikai strike from a power-type weapon, like Komamura. And Tousen caused a similar amount of destruction with his shikai too. So yeah. It's a single shikai strike. Nnoitora was dying from the Kendo attack. All it took was a basic shikai strike to bring him down.

Just because Zaraki can't help but land full-powered hits without his eyepatch doesn't mean his opponent would need that much power to die. I'm pretty sure anyone could have killed Nnoitora at that point.
Unlike the poison, the kendo doesn't continue to affect you once it's been "administered".
Oh, sure it doesn't. Especially the way it -didn't- stop Nnoitora's regeneration, how it -didn't- make Nnoitora bleed buckets out of his torso.

The Kendo slash's after effects, much like the poison's, were still in effect. Nnoitora was dying and all it took was a slight hit to bring him down. Nnoitora did not survive that Kendo slash. It was, so to speak, the fatal hit. The bullet to the brain. He just didn't die completely.

Yup, he didn't "survive" it alright :rolleye:
Precisely. So what are you trying to prove here by agreeing with me, again? :rolleye09

[KholdStare]

Talk about overestimating Zaraki :cm:. The hit was equivalent to a shikai strike from a power-type weapon, like Komamura. And Tousen caused a similar amount of destruction with his shikai too. So yeah. It's a single shikai strike. Nnoitora was dying from the Kendo attack. All it took was a basic shikai strike to bring him down.


You're telling me that a shikai strike from a patchless Zaraki is equivalent to a shikai strike from Tousen's shikai? If so, I won't even respond further in this thread.


Just because Zaraki can't help but land full-powered hits without his eyepatch doesn't mean his opponent would need that much power to die. I'm pretty sure anyone could have killed Nnoitora at that point.


I never said that nobody else could have killed him at the point. Sure, he was weak. But he still survived the kendo hit. I don't know how much more clear it gets when the author tries to point out the fact that he did by making Zaraki impressed by the fact that he's still alive.

He just didn't die completely.

Thanks. Here is the definition of "survive"

to continue to live or exist after the death, cessation, or occurrence of

Did Nnoitora "continue to live" after the "occurrence" of the kendo strike? Yes.

It's so painfully obvious that he did survive the hit, no matter how weak he was afterwards. Replying her after this will just be repeating the same thing over and over so I will refrain from posting again about this point.

[Undying]

You're telling me that a shikai strike from a patchless Zaraki is equivalent to a shikai strike from Tousen's shikai? If so, I won't even respond further in this thread.
Just look at the amount of destruction they caused. It's very similar - ergo, similar power. Not equal, but similar.

I never said that nobody else could have killed him at the point. Sure, he was weak. But he still survived the kendo hit. I don't know how much more clear it gets when the author tries to point out the fact that he did by making Zaraki impressed by the fact that he's still alive.
He's dying. That's not survive. That's not dying all the way.

Thanks. Here is the definition of "survive"



Did Nnoitora "continue to live" after the "occurrence" of the kendo strike? Yes.

It's so painfully obvious that he did survive the hit, no matter how weak he was afterwards. Replying her after this will just be repeating the same thing over and over so I will refrain from posting again about this point.
He was dying. Surviving means, well, continuing to live.

Nnoitora wasn't. He was on the verge of death, not "continuing to live".

Stab someone in the gut with a claymore. Are they dead? No.

Did they "survive"? No. They can survive it if they are treated. Without it, well... they will die.

Same here. Nnotiora did not "survive" a Kendo hit from Zaraki. He was dying - just not dead yet.

Dying =/= survived. Just like Ishida didn't "survive" the poison from Mayuri. He was dying. He was then saved by external means.

And, to bring this back to your original point, a single Kendo hit from Zaraki is equivalent to a Vaizard GT?

And you expect me to take that argument seriously? :cm:

[Zanga]

Just look at the amount of destruction they caused. It's very similar - ergo, similar power. Not equal, but similar.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/142/05/ <-- Byakuya


http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/159/16/ <-- Yourichi's shunko

Wow go Byakuya.

[Undying]

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/142/05/ <-- Byakuya


http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/159/16/ <-- Yourichi's shunko

Wow go Byakuya.

What are you trying to prove?

Both Kido. Both make a similar giant explosion. What's your point? That a simple Kido from a captain with loads of reiatsu has the same flash of light as a special technique from a woman with barely any reiatsu?

We know that already.

[Gingermadman]

If Ichigo could find a way through Nnoitra's arm's then it's possible. If Nnoitra could regenerate he would win this, he's the 5th espada, he has good reactions if he is a fighter like Zaraki. Ichigo would have to use his brain and find a way through which we all know he isn't capable of doing. (Let's smack it until it breaks , if it doesn't, smack it some more but with a mask on, job done :busy:)

If like the original fightup is like the one in the op's post without any regenerating then it would be quite easy for Ichigo to concentrate on the arms then go for the slash. An average getsuga would struggle to damage Nnoitra too since he DID barely survive a kendo slash from Zaraki and from the looks of it is much more devastating.

I can't see Ichigo surviving a head on fight with Nnoitra , trying to find a way through those arms would be hard enough , the fact that Ichigo doesn't take the kill when he really has to would probably mean he loses this. Nnoitra isn't as slow as he makes out , if Chad can use Sonido i'm willing to bet Nnoitra can too :rolleye09 , not that he would , but his reaction time is extremly high (although not as high as Zaraki i don't think)

[Rayster]

/moved to Universal Battle forum

All battles should be created there from now on