Just how strong IS Aizen? (Ep. 61 spoilers)

[Kune]

Ep. 61 gave us a lot of insight into Aizen's strength. It also opened a whole new tier of power. Most of us, after seeing Inchigo beat Byakuya, figured Ichigo was as badass as it got. That was until Aizen came in and cut him like a rug.

One of the biggest things for me was Aizen's description of the four fighting styles of the Shinigami. Going off of memory, I think it was cutting style, force style (?), walking style, and speed style. I think it's pretty fair to say that it's possible that Yama-Jii has mastered the force style. I mean, come on, he's had long enough, and he has to be known as the most powerful for a good reason. It would also be fair to say that Yourichi is the foremost master of the walking style. Being the god of flash step and all, the closest one to her seems to be Soi Fon, and even she's behind. And just for measure I'd say Zaraki could be the strongest when it comes to pure cutting style. But, from what I've seen, I'd say Aizen's seemed to have mastered pretty much ALL of these fields. He has insane speed, seems to know how to cut people real good, and has an insanely forceful reiatsu which paralyzed Rukia in a similar way that Yama-Jii's paralyzed Nanao-Chan. Aizen also seems to be limiting his power, due to the comments towards Renji about him having to hold back his power to not crush him like an ant, plus the fact that he's pretty much been pissing away everyone else's Bankai like it was nothing. It's extremely hard to believe, however, that Aizen naturally surpassed Yama-Jii and the rest of the captains. He must have had some sort of augmentation, but if it was through the power of Sougyou, then he wouldn't really be questing so hard for it.
It also makes us re-evaluate the power that Ichigo has. When Ichigo's hollow got leaked, Ichigo was already quite injured and low on injury, plus Ichigo was resisting the hollow. This could mean that Ichigo's hollow form may be even more powerful than what we've come to believe; and it definately means that Ichigo has the potential to become stronger than Yama-Jii, and possibly even Aizen.
Just some food for thought, I guess. It's 1:30 in the morning, sleep time is now.

[General Cox]

well, he stopped ichigo's ban kai which is probably faster than yoruichi's flash step, which means he is stupidly fast, much faster than yoruichi. Power i guess you can say stopping ichigo and hitsugaya without much hassle at all point to a level similar or above yama and he also almost cut ichigo in half which implies good cutting force :p

i think he is probably more powerful than a ban kai yama, mostly because we havent seen aizens ban kai yet and he is already as powerful as yama when holding back :/

[astrallite]

I don't know, but Aizen seems like a complete psycho to me, and killed most doting attendents.

The way he says how he has to clean up the dust makes it sounds suspiciously like when (if, which won't because the hero will win, but for argument's sake) he'll probably kill Tousen and Gin as soon as he becomes the strongest...and...creates a new world? Lol. Other than the fact that he wants even greater levels of power from Rukia, we know nothing of his motives.

You'd Old man Yamada's thing about "I created the Soul Society," that maybe Aizen wants all the current regime's captains and lieutenants killed so he can forge a new Soul Society and mold all the easily-led foot troops and create a new order. You'd...think. The fact that he killed those who'd support him the most, and his stooges being a blind vigilant of justice (haha, irony) and a suspicious looking guy (Gin) who'd probably back-stab Aizen if he had the chance...I wouldn't be surprised if Aizen wasn't totally insane and had no future plans besides being "the world's strongest" (aka I am Perfect Cell!)

As for Aizen's power...it could be totally possible that he isn't the fastest or strongest, but his hallucinagentic "persuation" makes everyone snail-slow, and stuff like him grabbing swords and striking invisible blows are just illusions (he's holding his sword out during those times but isn't doing anything with it). Who knows, maybe Ken-chan and Tousen (who comes to his senses) join forces and beat (or help beat Aizen); Tousen with his "take away all your senses" magic, and Ken-chan, since his senses would be totally locked down anyway, would sense Aizen's strikes and fight back successfully. Probably wouldn't happen as Ichigo needs to be the hero and master the ultimate "Hollow-control power" but Ken-chan/Tousen combo still would be very amusing.

[brolijc]

the reason why Aizen seems so strong is because Aizen was fighting with what i would call *weaklings* compared to Yama, Ukitake and Shunsui, Ukitake and Shunsui's power might be as powerful as Aizen, thats why when we see Yama fight with them, we don't see Yama as someone uber powerful, we must note this

[sniperz]

lol "weaklings" tat means ichigo is weak = . = no way i think ichigo has surpassed most of them except yama and aizen tats all. coz his power and ability is upon them. besides shinsui and ukitake is like a laugh lol... his bleeding as u can see. and yama even can withstand two captains. possibly ichigo can outwit the two captains too. but yama might be tough. so if u said weaklings u counted ichigo in, plus he juz became a shinigami in few days. aizen oso feared him in some way, as u can see if ichigo mastered hollow and all wat aizen said, i bet fighting the final boss of hollow wouldnt be hard soon. ichigo's our hero of the storyline. i can see aizen's slashed till to the drop in the future. lol who can draw would be good XD!

[flam3z]

Well , Ichigo n Renji is weaker than Aizen , but I wouldn't call em weaklings . It's juz that Aizen's so ridiculously strong that the both of em look so insignificant .

N we dun actually know how strong Yama Jii , Ukitake n Shunsui is , so it wouldn't be fair 2 say that Aizen will lose or wutsoever against em .

Wutever it is , Aizen's powers doesn't stop there , that's for sure . N juz my 2 cents , Ichimaru is probably pretty strong as well , maybe among the top of all the 13 captains . We've come so far into the anime ( n manga ) as well , but they're not showing how strong he is . For that , i think it's a safe bet 2 say that Ichimaru is probably next 2 Aizen n Aizen only .

Sorry for getting out of topic though .

[brolijc]

this post is for snip3r and flam3z

firstly, i said *weaklings*, if you get what i mean. also, you said that Ichigo will kick Aizen's ass in the future, is there any proof? whether Aizen will get defeated by Ichigo alone is not something we will know, it might be 5v1 or even 10v1. unfair to Aizen to say that Aizen will lose to them? i didn't say Aizen will lose, and isn't it unfair to Ukitake, Shunsui and Yama to say that they are weaker than Aizen? Regarding your post about Ichimaru, yes i think that he is very strong, probably top 5 among the captains in my point of view, you said Aizen feared him, in which part do i see Aizen fear him, at the most Aizen only find him something that MIGHT give him trouble in the future. now that all these new bad guys and stuffs are introduced, i just have to say that they are weaklings at the moment till the part where all of them get stronger and able to overcome the new and difficult obstacles that is awaiting them.

saying Ichigo is the hero of the storyline makes the discussion totally useless. Also, saying things like these few people become so strong in such a short amount of time is crap too, remember each spirit has their limit, each captain has most probably reaching their limit. Saying that Ichigo can outwit the 2 captains, mean that Ichigo is all so strong and the captains are all so weak so that means the future opponents will all be defeated by Ichigo and him only? isn't that boring, and if Ichigo were to become so strong already in only ep 60, then the show will most probably end at ep 120 - 150 since he is all so strong and able to beat Aizen.

Also, we hardly even see any captains fight seriously, only a few like maybe Hitsugaya etc. Aizen is stronger than most captains, that we know, but NOT ALL, if he was the strongest, he won't even had to planned such stuffs, just kill Yama first without anyone knowing, then Ukitake, then Shunsui, then Unohana, Kenpachi etc. by the time other captains get to know about this, the strong captains have already been wiped out, even if 5 or 6 of them attack together, Aizen still have Gin and Tousen, so he definetely is strong but not the strongest.

once again, many people will say he will be the 2nd, meaning only Yama can beat him, that isn't strongly supported as i don't believe after Aizen, Gin and Tousen teamed up against Yama, they don't have a chance of winning

[captain_soifon]

aizen is surely strong, and btw brolijc you're mixing me up with sniperz

[powerghost]

just commenting on renji's and ichigo's condition,remember renji was just barely alive
after byakuya used his bankai on him and the same goes for ichigo,fighting byakuya
and his inner hollow is no easy task.they where serieusly injured and i think it would else be a more equal fight when the where uninjured but the would still lose to aizen.
i'm no fanboy,just stating the facts

[brolijc]

bah sorry captain_soifon, cause of your Soi Fong banner i keep mixing you up with him. it actually didn't make a great difference whether they are injured or not, i'm sure even if they are not injured at all they will still lose to this extent, Renji's wounds are mostly healed already before he fought with Aizen, Ichigo too since Orihime can heal him.

[astrallite]

I think the obsurdity of how they were taken down (they couldn't even register how fast Aizen was/overwhelmed by his mind magic) was more or less a plot device to show the seperation of "level" (as Buyakuya put it) between Aizen and Ichigo/Renji, inspite of their injuries.

[Sandal Hat]

@Brolijc- Aizen had to hold back his reiatsu just to keep from crushing them like ants under his foot. We have no idea how strong Shunsui, Ukitake, and Yamamoto are but from what we have seen Aizen is on a whole new plateau in terms of strength, skill, and pure reiatsu.

1. If Yama had the same amount of reiatsu as Aizen his powering up would have been enough to do what it did to Nanao to Shunsui, and Ukitake

2. Shunsui and Ukitake had to tag team just to take down Yamamoto and when it shows them they look like they were the ones haveing trouble

3. Aizen is the strongest or this whole Aizen arc would make no sense. They wouldn't have to train or do anything at all, they could just skip the new villains and just send Shunsui and Ukitake to kill Aizen and that would be a very lame ending to Bleach

[brolijc]

I think the obsurdity of how they were taken down (they couldn't even register how fast Aizen was/overwhelmed by his mind magic) was more or less a plot device to show the seperation of "level" (as Buyakuya put it) between Aizen and Ichigo/Renji, inspite of their injuries.

yes exactly, its to let people know how strong he is, i agree with you totally

Sandal: Aizen's whereabouts now are unknown, he is most probably in the hollow world, but even if you enter there you still can't find him easily, Aizen, in the near future, not now, will most probably gain hollow powers too, making him so much more powerful, what i meant was Ukitake and Shunsui's power were around Aizen's when he is a full Shinigami.

just like Rurouni Kenshin, Kenshin's master could had defeated Shishio, but they didn't send him, they send Kenshin.

[Sandal Hat]

I'm sorry but, I thought this episode would clear everything up about the strenght of Aizen for Anime only viewers.Its completely absurd to think that Shunsui and Ukitake are on the same level as Aizen. There is no need to post evidence because normal people should just be able to tell by watching the anime

[captain_soifon]

even though the duo utitake/shunsui might not be nearly as pwerful as aizen, yama can be

"If Yama had the same amount of reiatsu as Aizen his powering up would have been enough to do what it did to Nanao to Shunsui, and Ukitake"

but you really cant prove that, aizen hasnt paralysed anyone yet but rukia; unless u mean his shikai

[Sandal Hat]

I'll take Aizens word when he says he can crush them with his reiatsu alone.

I do feel that Aizen would have to power up to fight Yama-Jii and power up to his fullest(without going bankai) to defeat Yama's Bankai

[brolijc]

the problem is, we do not know exactly how strong is Yama, who knows, Yama might be 3 or 5 times stronger than Aizen, but that is not shown to us because Yama's opponents are 2 powerful captains.

Aizen (didnt power up) - trash Ichigo and Renji, Rukia is scared

Yama (power up) - scared the wits out of Nanao, no confirmed victory between Shunsui and Ukitate vs Yama

Yama powered up to a level in which even a VC can be scared out to that level, Rukia is obvious because she just left the tower which eats reiatsu up so its not surprising that she is afraid and stuffs, but not even near to the extent of Nanao. plus its too obvious that Shunsui and Ukitake didn't want to hurt Yama, whereas Yama is determined to beat them, so that should prove something at least

and i said around Aizen's level, it can also mean weaker than Aizen, but not really a big different to the extent of Ichigo X Aizen

[Sandal Hat]

Aizen would defeat Shunsui and Ukitake just as fast as he did Ichigo. I think Shunsui and Ukitake are stronger than Ichigo but can really, honestly believe that they can block Ichigo's sword(bankai) with the tip of there finger? Block Renji's sword with there hands and not even budge? Defeat Hitsugaya so fast with one slash of there sword?

I hope your not basing Shunsui power on how fast he beat Chad because he wasn't anywhere near the level of a captain.

[captain_soifon]

hmm, i think his trying to prove yama not shunsui

[brolijc]

of course i won't even say about Shunsui vs Chad, that match is pointless.

firstly, i think almost all captains can block Renji's sword with their hands, so he should not be in this discussion, his power is too far away from the captains.

defeating Hitsugaya with one slash isn't impossible, seeing what happened in the manga supports my words more

blocking Ichigo with 1 finger is a bit harder, perharps they will block it with their swords, or dodge it

[Sandal Hat]

He's using shunsui and Ukitake strenght to determine Yamamoto's.

The fact that Yamamoto has powered up and still hasn't beat Shunsui and Ukitake within a matter of seconds should be more than enough proof of Aizen's power.

I want you to do something.

Imagine Aizen powering up.


firstly, i think almost all captains can block Renji's sword with their hands, so he should not be in this discussion, his power is too far away from the captains.

That's completely retarded(just the idea, not you). Either you haven't been keeping up with the anime or you haven't been paying any attention. It shocks me that you can even say that.

defeating Hitsugaya with one slash isn't impossible, seeing what happened in the manga supports my words more

If they can't beat Hitsugaya with one slash of there swords without even powering up and actually holding back(Aizen was holding back) then they can't beat Aizen

blocking Ichigo with 1 finger is a bit harder, perharps they will block it with their swords, or dodge it

Again, if they can't do what Aizen did while holding back this is no contest

[brolijc]

firstly, name 1 captain that can't beat Renji easily.

some captains can defeat Hitsugaya without even powering up

about the Ichigo thing, not that they can't do it, just that i'm not sure whether they can, i personally think they can

[noraa]

yeah, but the thing is aizen was holding back his powers kinda like when you hold back your strength when you step on an ant so it doesn't die... he said something like "its very hard for me to hold back my powers so that i dont kill an ant when i step on it"

[jonat3]

Renji can be beaten by captains, but i think only a strong captain can catch his sword without even gettin a scratch. It's something only zaraki and captains above can do.

[Sandal Hat]

firstly, name 1 captain that can't beat Renji easily.

some captains can defeat Hitsugaya without even powering up

about the Ichigo thing, not that they can't do it, just that i'm not sure whether they can, i personally think they can
Komamura Sajin

Name one captain that beat Hitsugaya without even powering up and at the same time holding back there power so they don't crush him

@ichigo- Tell me why you think shunsui or ukitake can block Ichigo's sword while Ichigo is in bankai with one finger and while trying to hold back.

Its obvious that Aizen is on a whole a level above that of a captains just like captains are far stronger than there Vice Captains.

[jonat3]

Yes, regardless of Ichigo's speed at the time, even if he was normal speed without using shyunpou, a captain shouldn't be able to catch his sword with TWO fingers. There's alot of reaitsu packed in that sword.

[Sandal Hat]

^Not only that but if Shunsui and Ukitake are so strong why was Nanao worried about them both fighting combined against Yamamoto.

[Invicibl3]

first of all, rofl @ sandal hat's answer. tats one nice answer XD

i think aizen can be tat strong becoz of his zanpakuto ability. i remember in manga aizen say tat no one can dodge the ability of his zanpakuto even though they know tat it is coming (or something similiar to tat)

[Tracid]

Is Aizen using his hypnosis? That's one of his main thing isn't it? Maybe he confused all your senses making you think he's so strong to stop a sword with a finger with that complete hypnosis thing..

P.S. Just going by what I've seen so far in the anime. Villains love chattering and all hehe.

[jonat3]

Is Aizen using his hypnosis? That's one of his main thing isn't it? Maybe he confused all your senses making you think he's so strong to stop a sword with a finger with that complete hypnosis thing..

P.S. Just going by what I've seen so far in the anime. Villains love chattering and all hehe.

He didn't use hypnosis on Ichigo. Ichigo has never seen Aizen's release.

[baralaichan]

He didn't use hypnosis on Ichigo. Ichigo has never seen Aizen's release.

I thought that in the last episode, he said that you'd be hypnotised until you saw the release, not you'd be hypnotised when you saw it.

Did I understand that wrong then?

[jonat3]

I thought that in the last episode, he said that you'd be hypnotised until you saw the release, not you'd be hypnotised when you saw it.

Did I understand that wrong then?

The hypnosis requires a ceremony (releasing the sword with the name). When this ceremony is initiated, people know that they are seeing a release. Only Aizen misled everyone about the nature of this release.

Anyways, after the cermenony, Aizen can use hypnosis afterwards on the subject without them ever noticing it (releasing the sword without the name).

Every VC has already went through this ceremony. It's very likely that the same holds true for all the captains. That's why he didn't need to use the name to use hypnosis.

[Draffut]

Also, you have to concider that unless you already know Aizen's sword's power, you cant really fight him, as he is basically permanently invisable, and can screw you 1000 times over before anyone even attacks.

But if you know his swords ability already, many captains who would be immideately destroyed, wouldn't be dropped so easily. Like Hitsugaya would have probobly been able to defend himself, thoguh he would have still lost, it wouldn't have been so pathetic.

Though renji/ichigo are still way out of their league. I would be willign to say that Yamamoto/Ukitake/Shunsui would be able to hold their own, If they do know the nature of Aizen's sword.

Also, Jonat. i agree you have to see the sword released forthe illusion to take hold. but as we know, Shinigami who achive bankai no longer need to call their sword to release it. So Aizen can hypnotise you the first time he meets you, without you knowing, which kinda sucks.

[jonat3]

Also, you have to concider that unless you already know Aizen's sword's power, you cant really fight him, as he is basically permanently invisable, and can screw you 1000 times over before anyone even attacks.

But if you know his swords ability already, many captains who would be immideately destroyed, wouldn't be dropped so easily. Like Hitsugaya would have probobly been able to defend himself, thoguh he would have still lost, it wouldn't have been so pathetic.

Though renji/ichigo are still way out of their league.

Komamura knew about the ability (through Isane), but he still got owned. Even if you know that he has the ability, you can't really defend against it.


Sandal Hat:
Minor Spoiler

[Draffut]

Jonat, i edited my post.

Also, BEYOND just knowign his abilities, yo also have to be on the same power level as him. Which Komamura most definately isn't.

[Sandal Hat]

@Draffut: Lol, Aizen could just release his sword and then hypnotize you into thinking he didn't release his sword.

[Draffut]

umm.... I dont think aizen's sword can mess around with your memories also. unless it has anotuher abilty that has yet to be shown.

(Bankai = full amnesia o_O)

[Sandal Hat]

@Draffut- Dangit, I forgot


Aizen's bankai will just be amazing. Like it grant him immortality and he can defeat you just by the force of his eyelids as he closes them

[brolijc]

to answer Sandal's answer regarding Hitsugaya, the answer is Yamamoto

[vision33r]

Just want to clear up a few items:

Aizen is very very powerful, the manga further explains where the power comes from. The ability to stop or beat other captains so easily even without using his shikai or bankai is a hint of his other *unnatural* powers.

To be confident enough to use his bare hands to stop hollows and also attacks from Ichigo and Renji shows just how much more powerful he is. Don't forget he is the only captain that we see, so far that can kill hollows with bare hands.

As for Yamaji, he was going light on shunsui and Ukitake, why would he really hurt or kill his most loyal students.

And lets not get carried away with Aizen just fooling everyone with mind tricks again, his zenpakuto can fool others by displaying something but but cannot alter other things.

What still puzzles me even in the manga world is that Tousen of all the others is one of Aizen's.

[brolijc]

note this, it wasn't said in the manga AT ALL that Aizen already got his "unnatural" powers

[Draffut]

Just want to clear up a few items:

Aizen is very very powerful, the manga further explains where the power comes from. The ability to stop or beat other captains so easily even without using his shikai or bankai is a hint of his other *unnatural* powers.

To be confident enough to use his bare hands to stop hollows and also attacks from Ichigo and Renji shows just how much more powerful he is. Don't forget he is the only captain that we see, so far that can kill hollows with bare hands.

As for Yamaji, he was going light on shunsui and Ukitake, why would he really hurt or kill his most loyal students.

And lets not get carried away with Aizen just fooling everyone with mind tricks again, his zenpakuto can fool others by displaying something but but cannot alter other things.

What still puzzles me even in the manga world is that Tousen of all the others is one of Aizen's.

It was never said that he already had unnatural powers. I am pretty sure.

Any captain with a large amount of pure spirit force and the knowhow to use it could kill a hollow with it. Much like when Byakuya shoots the giant energy blast out of his hand at Renji. Same deal, i dotn see why someone like Yaama couldn;t.

you're 3rd point, agreed.

correct, it cannot actually alter physical things. But i could make a harmless snake on the ground SEAM like a giant firebreathing dragon. The ability to control all of an opponents senses is almost unstoppable.

Lastly, i dont know. My best bet is that Aizen knew tousen would see threw it, and threatened him in some way.

[Ti1301]

What still puzzles me even in the manga world is that Tousen of all the others is one of Aizen's.
When u join the winning team there is less bloodshed, cause people are supposed to bow to is power.
Go against aizen and there will b more blood.

[Draffut]

When u join the winning team there is less bloodshed, cause people are supposed to bow to is power.
Go against aizen and there will b more blood.

That is problobly going to be his reasoning, but that makes no sense. He is about justice and the like. Tousen has never said anythign about wanting there to be as little bloodshed as possible. So that doesn't really fit his mindset anyhow.

[Ti1301]

That is problobly going to be his reasoning, but that makes no sense. He is about justice and the like. Tousen has never said anythign about wanting there to be as little bloodshed as possible. So that doesn't really fit his mindset anyhow.
Yes he has, it was in that episode where he mets up with komamura and they to leave and they say they both are on the same side.
It is HIS justice, the path with the least bloodshed.

Dattbayo sub.

[maximoose666]

Maybe Aizen's offered him all the justice in the world; or threatened him in some way - or maybe the Justice thing was a facade and he's really a bad guy. Aizen's very strong; but remember his shikai has little offensive power. I'd say he wasn't much more powerful than Yama-Jii.

[RedIceRing]

There has to be something else making Tousen do this because his reasoning of justice through least bloodshed is a crock of shiyat. Just because there is very little bloodshed doesn't mean its justice. Maybe Kubo did this to make everyone say WTF about him flipping sides or theres another reason that Tousen chooses to disclose at the moment...

[Polygon]

Tousen is neither god or bad. He is a coward. He would to ANYTHING so that he witnesses less bloodshed. Even if that means helping the wrong.

[Nood]

There must be a stupid reason for it. Kubo probabyl did it because everyone would have thought "If ppls must see Aizen's shikai to be hypnotized than Tousen will be the best opponent for him". But he didnt wanted to make him such a hero.

[Bankai!!]

people said that he is the second strongest captain of all. He even stoped ichigos bankai with one finger.

[Chronomaru]

Well yes one finger. 1 because Renjis technique didnt hit because he was most likely hynotized, Ichigo wasnt at full power or even close. Plus I dont think they would show Ichigo fighting Aizen fully. Ichigo could of just used his energy attack and stayed more safe but he rushed in

[jonat3]

Ichigo never saw Aizen's release. Aizen can use his hypnosis without people knowing, but it has a requirement. That requirement is that people need to undergo a ceremony first, similar to what he did to all the VC. Only then can he use his release each time without them knowing it.

[Amu]

I'll take Aizens word when he says he can crush them with his reiatsu alone.

I do feel that Aizen would have to power up to fight Yama-Jii and power up to his fullest(without going bankai) to defeat Yama's Bankai

I am really sorry Sandal Hat but...that is bullshit. He needs Bankai and I bet you 1 dollar that Aizen's power is OVERRATED just because WE have only seen ONE SIDE of the story. We know how strong the bad guys are, not so much the GOOD guys. So...until then...no

Note: It is obvious that Aizen will be beat since we know the story continues after rescue so....it means Aizen must be defeated for that...so he is not unbeatable at all...and ichigo did not use maz power against Aizen!

[jonat3]

Aizen is (probably) stronger than Yama. He owned every captain he came across in less than 5 seconds. Ukitake and Shunsui were still standing after a fight with Yama. If it was Aizen, it would have cost 10 seconds flat to beat them.

[Polygon]

Aizen is (probably) stronger than Yama. He owned every captain he came across in less than 5 seconds. Ukitake and Shunsui were still standing after a fight with Yama. If it was Aizen, it would have cost 10 seconds flat to beat them.

you're being illogical. why would yama-jii want to kill them?

[jonat3]

you're being illogical. why would yama-jii want to kill them?

Well, i said beat them, not kill them. But you have a point. Yama may have been holding back on Ukiatke and Shunsui.

[Aragami]

He definitely was, he kept sayin so.

[Polygon]

Well, i said beat them, not kill them. But you have a point. Yama may have been holding back on Ukiatke and Shunsui.

In my opinion he obviously was. They had wounds, he did not. If he wasn't holding back he would have had at least a cut.

[Kune]

I think one thing we have to question is whether Aizen still has his Shikai in effect at all. He had broke it down earlier after killing Hinamori and Hitsygaya, but we don't know if that breakdown got rid of the whole facade, or whether it was just for those who saw it.

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

I might just be making my self look retarded here, but Ukitake + Shunsui and Yama didnt even fight yet. All they did was release their Zanpakutohs and talk.

[sniperz]

as u can see ukitake is bleeding. if u said they didnt fight tats a total laugh. miraculous blood? = = sure got fight

[Hansy]

Ichigo never saw Aizen's release. Aizen can use his hypnosis without people knowing, but it has a requirement. That requirement is that people need to undergo a ceremony first, similar to what he did to all the VC. Only then can he use his release each time without them knowing it.

True, but Renji did, therefore Aizen could have easily dodged Renji's distraction move making it easy for him to beat Ichigo.

I might just be making my self look retarded here, but Ukitake + Shunsui and Yama didnt even fight yet. All they did was release their Zanpakutohs and talk.

Actually you see them clash. Then the fight cuts off.

[RedIceRing]

Dude...Shunsui and Ukitake are both bleeding, I doubt they did that just by standing around. Also they seem tired...a fight went down and they weren't on the winning side.

Right now I believe that Yamamoto and Aizen are equals and would nullify each other in a fight. Or Aizen might be A LITTLE stronger, but this is all speculation. Otherwise Yamamoto would have demolished him before his little Greyhound Hollow Bus came.

[sniperz]

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8972/313ro.jpg

his bleeding, as an example some said they were standing tat'll be a laugh if the bleed happen without fights or being slashed.but yea u never know how yama did the damage, maybe by juz waving fires.

[astrallite]

"Tis only a flesh wound! Wimp! Keep fighting!!"


Arthur: "You have no arms..."

[Dounick]

During the episode Aizen was telling Ichigo that he has reached the limit of his powers, Is that true? All i know is that i want episode 62 to come out soon because im getting anxious on whats going to happen.

[vision33r]

During the episode Aizen was telling Ichigo that he has reached the limit of his powers, Is that true? All i know is that i want episode 62 to come out soon because im getting anxious on whats going to happen.

Aizen meant that the 4 arts or techniques the Death Gods masters are limited in power and they are the slash, step, demon, and punch type arts. The 4 arts have limits.

Which is why the "Hollow" Ichigo was able to easily pound on Byakuya.

Well, Eps 62 most likely exposes what Aizen is about.. that is a little hint, but if you can't wait go to the manga.

I would like to see Eps 63+

[Polygon]

Aizen did NOT reach the full limits. You'll see why next ep. I hope that isn't a sopiler.

[Dounick]

Aizen meant that the 4 arts or techniques the Death Gods masters are limited in power and they are the slash, step, demon, and punch type arts. The 4 arts have limits.

Which is why the "Hollow" Ichigo was able to easily pound on Byakuya.

Well, Eps 62 most likely exposes what Aizen is about.. that is a little hint, but if you can't wait go to the manga.

I would like to see Eps 63+well isnt there any way that ichigo can control the hallow part of him?

[Aragami]

He has to do some serious "come to terms" work to do that. I believe if he does that, he'll even surpass (quite staggeringly, according to the story's mode of progression) those arrancar fellows. I have the feeling they have a severely limited perception/grasp of shinigami folks and especialy ichigo. Thus, keeping with that "unexpected" habit he has of enacting on new enemies...

[Kenta]

How Aizen came out of the blue and be such a badass is a mystery. Never did they give hints about where he came from and judging from his fights, he's in a totally different league. Blocking swords with his hands, speed that can't be gauged. I think they need better explanation. How in the world someone that powerful got into SS without anyone noticing? His strength is definitely commander worthy.

Maybe Urahara knows about him a little, since I read somewhere they have been together when they were in SS?

[astrallite]

It seems like any lieutenant or captain can easily mask their power (Zaraki Kenpachi seems to have extra-sensory ability in this regard, through primal instinct) which is probably what Aizen has been doing all along, and/or a combination of that and his mind magic.

The fact he can block Renji's shikai bare-handed (and it seems like Renji is the strongest lieutenant by far, he lacks experience to be a captain, although from what we've seen in the variance of captain strengths, Renji could very well be one) is like what Kenpachi explained earlier...Aizen's UNCONCIOUS reiatsu is stronger then Renji's shikai. So far (that we've seen) no other captain has shown this level of unconcious reiatsu, including Kenpachi, who is easily cut by half-assed shikai attacks (the fact that he has no reaction shows that he's psycho, but not unbeatable in the reiastu department).

[Sandal Hat]

Aizen did NOT reach the full limits. You'll see why next ep. I hope that isn't a sopiler.

Aizen has reached his limits. Not everybody has the same potential.

[Polygon]

Aizen has reached his limits. Not everybody has the same potential.

Yes they do. It is clearlt stated that all souls have a limit. No where is it stated that every limit is different. That would mean that everyone's streng is already decided.

Aizen failed to do a spell in teh 90's to its fll potiental. Even though he did do it chantless, if he has reached the limits then he should have had been able to complete it perfectly.

[Sandal Hat]

Octogon...........

Let me make this easier for you

All Humans have a limit.

Now, if you closely examine that statement above nowhere does it say that each Human has different there own limits but from common sense you know that every person is different and has there own limits. The same holds true for souls (if you apply the same common sense logic)

[Polygon]

Octogon...........

Let me make this easier for you

All Humans have a limit.

Now, if you closely examine that statement above nowhere does it say that each Human has different there own limits but from common sense you know that every person is different and has there own limits. The same holds true for souls (if you apply the same common sense logic)

The only thing I infer from that statment is that humans have a limit. Nowhere was it stated or implyied that each person has a different limit.

It wouldn't make sense for one person to have a limit under or above anyone elses.

Show me where it says each soul has a different limit.

[Sandal Hat]

Because every soul is different Octogon, if you haven't already noticed.

(ie. Soul Slayers)

[Polygon]

Because every soul is different Octogon, if you haven't already noticed.

(ie. Soul Slayers)

So what? All humans are different.

For example- A grand master and a Muhhamed Ali are different. But that doesn't mean they can't fight each other.

Nowhere was it stated ot implyied that every soul has a different limit.

[jonat3]

It's only natural that people have different limits. Why do you think a genius has to exert less effort than a normal person? That's because his limit for learning or accomplishing stuff is higher. A person from a lineage of warriors will gain strength more easily, while a person born from a lineage of scholars will not gain strength that easily compared to the warrior. Each person's limit is set differently. So it is with souls.

[assface]

^I think it's like everyone has a different potential, but overall everyone has a same wall they can't get through. It's like a race some people can go farther, but eventually they'll run into a wall. And transforming into a hollow means overcoming the wall to go further.

I think aizen is probably amogst the strongest. Lets' not forget Ichigo had his ass beat to the point where he couldn't stand just 5 minutes ago. Then 2 seconds ago he needed support to stand up. Ichigo probably can't hurt aizen much but if Ichigo was 100% he could've put up more of a fight than that.

[Polygon]

It's only natural that people have different limits. Why do you think a genius has to exert less effort than a normal person? That's because his limit for learning or accomplishing stuff is higher. A person from a lineage of warriors will gain strength more easily, while a person born from a lineage of scholars will not gain strength that easily compared to the warrior. Each person's limit is set differently. So it is with souls.

Yes it will come to them easily, and they have more potiental. But that in no way means that people have different limits. If one wishes to surpass a genius then you must wwork uber hard. But in the end the absolute maxium power one can have is just the same as everyone elses.

[jonat3]

Yes it will come to them easily, and they have more potiental. But that in no way means that people have different limits. If one wishes to surpass a genius then you must wwork uber hard. But in the end the absolute maxium power one can have is just the same as everyone elses.


That one person must work harder than the genius already demonstrates a difference in limits.

Let me explain. What does limit actually mean? It means a wall that is hard to break through. A limit can be surpassed, but to do so is incredibly difficult. So to see where the limit lies, one must see where it starts to get difficult for that particular person.

I'll portray an example:

A genius in calculations can make calculations like a calculator. Let's say that calculations involving multiuplications with 10 digits is where things start to get difficult for him. That would be that persons limit. A normal person could only handle multiplications with up to 2 digits. This would be this persons limit.

Now, it seems obvious now that the the example above demonstrate a difference in limits. Now, the normal person has to surpass his limits by constant training. Let's say, 10 years (5 hours a day) to be able to compete with the genius. At that time, the limits of them both are supposed to be about the same (atleast concerning calculations). Now, the normal person decides to challenge the genius, but is easily outclassed. It seems the genius can handle calculations with 100 digits now, because the genius has also been training for 10 years (5 hours a day).
Here, the difference in limts become apparent again. The normal person took 10 years to increase his calculation ability by 5 times. In that same timespan, the genius increased his ability by 10 times.
The normal person decides to train again to surpass the genius, but 50 years later only manages to make multiplications with 110 digits. He has managed this with great difficulty and it took him 10 years to gain 1 measly digit to reach his record of 110. It is apparent that the number 110 is this persons maximum limit for his lifetime. Even with more training, this person will never go beyond 110 for the rest of his life.
The genius meanwhile (also 50 years later), can make multiplications up to 600 digits. It took him 5 years to gain 1 measly digit to reach his alltime record of 600. This is this person's maximum limit and he will not likely increase it before his death.

Above story should demonstrate that people simply have different limits. If one person exerts the same amount of effort, the results from that effort will always vary compared to another person exerting the same amount of effort. The limits of a genius is ALWAYS higher than that of a normal person. This is because not all people are born equally. That is why their limits will also vary.

[Polygon]

That one person must work harder than the genius already demonstrates a difference in limits.

Yes it does. You are correct about this.

Let me explain. What does limit actually mean? It means a wall that is hard to break through. A limit can be surpassed, but to do so is incredibly difficult. So to see where the limit lies, one must see where it starts to get difficult for that particular person.

In a real life situation you would be correct. And even to some extent in bleach. But in bleach there is two kinds of limits.

Breakable limits. : An example is after the Ichigo/Byakuya fight. Ichigo clearly stated that he is at his limit. And it is true. But this is a breakable limit. This is the limit on himself, not the maximium limit one has. Breakable limits can be surmounted with traning/practicing. This is the type of limit you are describing.

Unbreakablelimits: The limit aizen speaks of. That all souls have a limit. Nowhere does it say they have different limits. Unlike breakable limits these cannot be surpassed exept by becomeing a hybrid. So you see it makes no sense for each induvidual person to have a different unbreakable limit. But Breakable limits differ for everyone. It only makes sense that the limit for the species is the same. UNless one is born with an extreme sickness etc. And Aizen states that this "species" is every soul.

I hope you get my reasoning.

[Sandal Hat]

The same holds true for spirits in Bleach

A keen example is Hitsugaya

Hitsugaya, a soul, is a child prodigy. His limits/potential are greater than that of Renji's. Renji has been training for atleast twice as long as Hitsugaya only to wield lesser results. Hitsugaya's progress has been far greater and in a shorter amount of time. When Hitsugaya reaches renji's age he will no doubt be extremely powerful. He will more than likely become the next Commander.Yama =Old and powerful man with the strongest Fire type zanpakuto and Hitsugaya= Youngin with lots of power for his age and the strongest Water/Ice type Zanpakuto. Renji, in the end will only become a captain.

Octogon- Your reasoning is that all souls are, when it really comes down to it, the same. Well, humans are a "species" and we all have our different limits, you can apply this to any species. The thing is Octogon, is that all souls are different, so naturally, even though they are all souls they all have there own seperate limits. Kubo Tite thought that most peolple should be able to tell that Aizen meant that all souls have there own limits otherwise he would have made it more clearer. Why should everything have to spelled out for you to believe it?

[Polygon]

The same holds true for spirits in Bleach

A keen example is Hitsugaya

Hitsugaya, a soul, is a child prodigy. His limits/potential are greater than that of Renji's. Renji has been training for atleast twice as long as Hitsugaya only to wield lesser results. Hitsugaya's progress has been far greater and in a shorter amount of time. When Hitsugaya reaches renji's age he will no doubt be extremely powerful. He will more than likely become the next Commander.Yama =Old and powerful man with the strongest Fire type zanpakuto and Hitsugaya= Youngin with lots of power for his age and the strongest Water/Ice type Zanpakuto. Renji, in the end will only become a captain.

Potiental and limits are two completley diffeent things. As of now hitsu has more potiental and has a higher limit than renji. If renji traines uber hard then he can catch up. Renji will only become a captian because that is all he desires to be.

Octogon- Your reasoning is that all souls are, when it really comes down to it, the same. Well, humans are a "species" and we all have our different limits, you can apply this to any species. The thing is Octogon, is that all souls are different, so naturally, even though they are all souls they all have there own seperate limits. Kubo Tite thought that most peolple should be able to tell that Aizen meant that all souls have there own limits otherwise he would have made it more clearer. Why should everything have to spelled out for you to believe it?

Aizen said every soul has a limit they CANNOT pass, unless they becaome a hybrid. What you're suggesting is that only certian people have the potiental to achieve a certian rank, when in reailty anyone can achieve any rank.

If aizen meant every suls has a different liit he would have had said so. Othere wise he wouls have said each induvidual souls has a different limits. But he said A limit. Implying that there is only one limit, not many.

[Ichigo Soul Slayer]

Everyone's reiatsu is different, silly. Of course there is a different limit to a person's power. Some people just don't possess the potential to achieve high power.

[Polygon]

Everyone's reiatsu is different, silly. Of course there is a different limit to a person's power. Some people just don't possess the potential to achieve high power.

Yes potiental is different. One person might reach the limit in 100 years. While another might take 500 years.

[Ichigo Soul Slayer]

Exactly, I guess some people are too lazy to get a goal like that. :P

[Polygon]

Exactly, I guess some people are too lazy to get a goal like that. :P

Yep my point exactly. While one may have a higher potiental and breakable limit than another, the absolute highest you can go is still the same.

[jonat3]

Octogon, i was talking about both breakable and unbreakable limits in my post. The unbreakabla limit of a genius will always be higher than that of a normal person. Take learning speed for example. Learning speed is heavily dependent on your abilities you were boirn with (DNA). Even with constant training, a person with low intelligence could never hope to equal a person with high intelligence with a fast learning speed.
Also, if you are born with very low intelligence, no amount of training will ever allow you to gain a high IQ to equal those of a genius.

To suggest that every human on earth has the same unbreakable limit is not realizing that people simply aren't born equal. Some have better potential for strength, stamina, intelligence than others. Others have more talent for art, music and creativity. All of these can be improved upon with some measure of training, but soon people would hit that unbreakable limit. You could never hope to become a genius like Albert Einstein. Someone who's bad at music will almost never surpass one who is exceptionally good at it, even with alot of training. The skills and capabilities one is born with, simply do not allow us to surpass that unbreakable limit to equal others who have exceptional talent for something.

There are enough examples in the world where people still try to become good at something, while having no talent for it. And these people in time are stuck at one point and they fall short of those who have talent. This is their unbreakable limit.

[Polygon]

Jonat, I realize what your saying. But it still makes no sense. What you are describing is potiental, not a unbreakable limit. It might take the genius 500 years to be at the unbreakable limit. Yet it might take the other person 5000 years to achieve that limit.

[Draffut]

So Octogon. You are tryign to tell me that every spirit in the spirit world (I cant remmber it's name ATM) has the ability to be Aizen/Yama level?

I am sorry. but if they left SS, and went to those districts around it, i am pretty sure eveyr person there does not have Yama's abilites, or the abiltiy to achieve them.

You are also implying that EVERY human can gain spirit awareness and become yama's. becuase they do all have souls. This is outrageous

[Polygon]

So Octogon. You are tryign to tell me that every spirit in the spirit world (I cant remmber it's name ATM) has the ability to be Aizen/Yama level?

I am sorry. but if they left SS, and went to those districts around it, i am pretty sure eveyr person there does not have Yama's abilites, or the abiltiy to achieve them.

You are also implying that EVERY human can gain spirit awareness and become yama's. becuase they do all have souls. This is outrageous

No I'm not saying this. Taking on them would take more than centuries of training.

Hitsugaya for example has more potiental than renji. But if say hitsugaya dies. Then if renji trains then in a certain amount of time he would get to the level histgaya was.

But the limit Aizen mentioned is different. He said it cannot be broken. The same would appl to a regular human. Does it make sense that the maxium amount one can in his entire life pull is 100 lb while for someone else it is 200?

So are you saying no matter how had you try if your limit is 3rd seat lvl then you can never go past that level? It makes sense that the maxium limit one cen ever obtain is the same.

But if hitsugaya died and renji didn't. Then in a certian amount of time he would get to his level, would he not? If it took hitsu gaya 40 years to become captian. It might take Renji 200 years to get to the same level.

All I'm saying is that the absolute greatest amount of power one can obtain is the same. But some souls have more potiental.

What you guys are saying is that

[Draffut]

Just like human bodies have different limits, spirits have different limits also. Person A has Asthma. Person B has an incedibly slow metabolism (i.e. fat) Person C is an Olympic athelete. There is no way that the first 2 people have the potential to reach Person C. ever. it's just a fact of life, people are born different. It's the same thing in Bleach. different souls are..... different. they have different limits and abilities.

[Polygon]

Just like human bodies have different limits, spirits have different limits also. Person A has Asthma. Person B has an incedibly slow metabolism (i.e. fat) Person C is an Olympic athelete. There is no way that the first 2 people have the potential to reach Person C. ever. it's just a fact of life, people are born different. It's the same thing in Bleach. different souls are..... different. they have different limits and abilities.

All those things can be worked out. Grnated it will take the first 2 people much longer to become olympic level. But if they try hard enoughf for enoughf time they can. Even though person 3 might be above them by that time. The truth is they have the potiental to become an olympic athlete.

Yes every soul has a different limit. Like after Ichigo fought Byakuya. That was his limit.

But Aizen speaks of a different limit. One that cannot be surmounted no matter how hard you try. Unless the person has some extreme sickness every one has the potiental to reach the maxuim limit. Even though the potiental of one person is wayy higher than the other.

[brolijc]

simply to say, each person has different limit. let me show you an exampl, person A's limit is 500x, person B's limit is 300x. once each has reached their own limit, they can't increase it anymore.

also, there is a difference in the duration one takes to reach its limit, lets say person A can reach 300x in 20 years, but person B can reach 300x in 10 years. but still the limit does not change

[vision33r]

The unbreakable limits that Aizen speaks of simply is governed by an even higher entity to balance good/evil. Death God powers are have limits even they cannot break, because they are like natural laws of nature.

Potentially speaking, everyone in Soul Society that aspires to be Death Gods or are already high level capitains are capped by this limit, it is put in place to balance powers.

What you guys are debating about each and everyone's potential and different limits are just different extremes under the absolute limit in the arts they use.

No matter how good Byakuya and Yamaji is, they cannot exceed the arts limit.

[Draffut]

Here is anouther example Octogon. Along with the reading example everyoen else seams so fond of.

Lets say you have the current fastest reader in the world. he reads, say 20 words a second. Now this man has tried and tried for the last 30 years. But he cannot exceed that limit of 20 words a second. That is the highest he can ever go. Now, are you tellign me that every human in existance has the potential to be able to read 20 words a second? AND not a single one has the ability to eventually be able to read 21 words a second?

I dont think so. One of those, if not both of them, are probobly false.

P.S. I pulled 20 words a second out of my butt, if someone cares enough to look upthe world record, go for it.

[Polygon]

What you guys are saying is that everyone has a set limit? This makes no sense. What you are sayng is that on birth everyone has a limit. So you are destined to be of certain strengh? I'll use Hitsugaya and Renji again.

Aizen clearly stated that there is a limit that no soul could overcome. What you guys are describing is potiental.Everyone in SS had the potiental to be of captian level. But most of the shinigami hav a very low potiental. While the high ranking members have a high potiental.

While it is true that everyone is born different. Some are born stronger or weaker than others. Some are born blind. But that does not mean that the strong child at birth has more potiental than the blind child. A perfect example is tousen. It is possible that his VC was born stronger than him. But now who is stronger?

Now onto limit. Everyone has a limit. For example one's limit is lifting 120 lbs. While someone elses might be 197lbs. These are breakable limits and with traing can be overcome. So that you will gain a new limit as you get stronger.

But the limit Aizen speaks of is different. Now it is senseless for one to be "destined" to have a limit they cannot ever surmount, when someoneof the same species has a higher one.

What you guys are saying is that you are born with a limit. This is not the case. People are born stronger than other peiople. But in many cases the person born weaker than the other can still surpass him, with training.

What you guys are saying is that when you are born your body is "assinged" a unbreakable limit. Give me a good reason why you would be "assinged a unbreakable limit? Your species will. Because of the capabilities of the body.

Say renjis limit is captian level right now. And hitsugaya is at yamto's level. What you guya are saying is that it is IMMPOSSIBLE for renji to ever in his entire life time to get to commander General level. This is not the case.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Limit and potiental are two completley

Potiental (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Potential)

Limit (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=limit)

[jonat3]

Octogon, potential and limit don't mean exactly the same thing, i know that, but they do have a close relationship with each other. Potential means theoretical ability that can be gained. Limit means theoretical amount of ability that is hard to surpass. An unbreakable limit can also be said to be the MAXIMUM POSSIBLE POTENTIAL for that person. When you put "maximum" in front of potential, we are basically discussing limits.

Now, it is obvious that all humans simply have limits. No matter what kind of training we do, we will never gain the strength of an elephant for example. Why is this? Answer: Genetic differences. Because of differences in genetic code, humans simply can never ever hope to gain strength like an elephant posesses. Humans maximum potential lies below the common strength of an elephant. That maximum potential is our unbreakable limit, a line we can't cross.
The differences of genetic code in human individuals are different enough for each human to possess different potential or limits. Like how our unbreakable limits differ from those of elephants because of a difference in genetic code, so do these limits in individuals differ between humans, because of these differences.

If you were to suggest to a geneticist that each human somehow has the same magical amount of potential or the same limits, they would laugh in your face. Humans simply do not have the same limits.

[zetsword]

I think it's less Aizen's speed and more his shikai and the possibilities that he can create illusions and make people see what he wants them to see more than him being faster than bankai Ichigo or Youruchi(sp?).

[DocInsanity]

I still don't get Aizen's shikai...Is it the sword turning into another person? is it just complete illsusions??? OR WHAT IS IT?

[sakrash]

aizen is... confusing me

[Ravenfdasfd]

When he releases it,it basicly hypnotises you.
Aizen can then command his sword to show you anything he wishes.

[DocInsanity]

Uhmm...so aren't aizen's powers just illusions... So they can't really hurt u right??? Or is the blood also an illusion and is the pain and everything is fake...that guy is wierd...

[AltoK]

Of course his illusions can hurt you. He makes an illusion of himself, and while you're attacking it, he has already diced to to tiny cleanly cut pieces.

I wouldn't be surprised if he could create illusions of pain, too.

If he has a Ban Kai, I assume it would be a thing like "time freeze", creating an illusion of time stopping. (sorry, it was irrelevant)

[Ravenfdasfd]

Basicly what he did with Hitsugaya is created an illusion of himself and then illusion himself invisible.Meaning Hitsugaya hit the illusion and Aizen diced his ass.

However he's not using this power against Ichigo and Renji.This is his BASE power!

[zetsword]

I don't know about that, he might've given Ichigo the illusion that he was blocking him with his finger when really it was his sword and then cut him. Ichigo can't be that much slower or faster than Aizen if he's mastered shunpo.

[Ravenfdasfd]

The illusion only works if he release his Shikai infront of you.
He hasn't ever done that to Ichigo or Renji...
Well technicly he did show Renji because Isane said he gathered up all the Vice Captains and showed them.

[Sandal Hat]

When Aizen releases his sword while you are watching then you will get trapped. He could manipulate your sense and make it seem like your not hurt at all and then once he allows you to feel the pain you are near death and you die not long afterwards.

[duncandun]

Up until episode 58/9 i guess, Byakuya and a coupel other captains were Ichigos opponents, Byakuya was his main goal though. Since the episode where Ichigo gets his soulsleep and chain broken by Byakuya on earth, It has mostly been about him saving rukia and getting strong enough to fight Byakuya, now that he has defeated him, The new villians were introduced, Think of how Weak Ichigo was when he was almost killed by Byakuya way back when, Right now, Ichigo is as weak as he was to Byakuya in episode 18 or 19?(cant remember exactly) as he is to Aizen.

Also, I personally think Byakuya could have killed Ichigo in an instant, I think his bonkai(the offensive version) would actually just shower an opponent with those blades that make the "arena" if he wanted too.


If he has a Ban Kai, I assume it would be a thing like "time freeze", creating an illusion of time stopping. (sorry, it was irrelevant)

Sorry, all i could think of with this was "THE WORLD!"

[blackmemory]

Some strange things you say, duncandun; ichigo was able to block all the "small blades" of senbonzakura, and, as byakuya said, there was hundreds of millions of them. How could ichigo fail to block a thousand of big swords?

[Neve]

I'm not sure...but aren't we all forgetting episode 38? I think that the power gap between Ichigo and Aizen is not all that much. When two spirit forces butt heads, the one that butts less gets hurt, and neither of them got hurt when Ichigo struck Aizen, so Ichigo's bankai must be of exactly the same power, or very similar power to the spirit force that Aizen leaks unconciously...right? So Ichigo does not have to improve all that much to gain the same power as Aizen. The only problem then would be his Shikai.

[duncandun]

Some strange things you say, duncandun; ichigo was able to block all the "small blades" of senbonzakura, and, as byakuya said, there was hundreds of millions of them. How could ichigo fail to block a thousand of big swords?
Once he did the "scene of massacure" ichigo was already slowed down a >ton< If you notice, the only real feats of speed he did was right after he used bonkai, after that though he seemed to get slower and slower. I mean come on, Byakuya Stabbed him in the foot with one of those swords, and if you remember, the sword appeared ni his hand almost instantly, even if ichigo was as quick as he was in the beginning of the fight, i doubt he could have dodged it.

[KenpachiW/Bankai]

before aizen stop ichigos attack like nothing ichigo was like weakened and tired from his previous battle with byakuya

[Byakuya7]

before aizen stop ichigos attack like nothing ichigo was like weakened and tired from his previous battle with byakuya

True but you're forgetting that it takes an insane amount of power and reiatsu to even stop a weakened ban kai with just one index finger. Not to mention he tore Komamura apart with a high level spell that wasnt even at 1/3 of the spells potential. Ichigo was tired, but at his current state right now, even if he were unharmed, the results from fighting aizen would still be identical, if not worse.

[kraziekid]

i think aizen is krazie strong

[AznPoi]

well, he stopped ichigo's ban kai which is probably faster than yoruichi's flash step, which means he is stupidly fast, much faster than yoruichi. Power i guess you can say stopping ichigo and hitsugaya without much hassle at all point to a level similar or above yama and he also almost cut ichigo in half which implies good cutting force :p

i think he is probably more powerful than a ban kai yama, mostly because we havent seen aizens ban kai yet and he is already as powerful as yama when holding back :/

Sorry if someone already responded to this, but this post is too long to read so I'm just goin to respond to the earlier ones.

I don't think Aizen is as fast as Yoruichi, because Yoruichi did stop him from drawning his sword in episode 62. I think we can draw to the conclusion that Yoruichi is faster than Aizen but not stronger.

[sohcyou]

I don't think Aizen is as fast as Yoruichi, because Yoruichi did stop him from drawning his sword in episode 62. I think we can draw to the conclusion that Yoruichi is faster than Aizen but not stronger.

I honestly doubt Aizen would of had trouble pulling out his sword, he was just in shock that all the captains and vice captains showed up. Yoruichi is as or a bit faster then Byukuya judging from the scene where she stopped Ichigo from fighting Byukuya on the bridge. And currently Ichigo is way faster and stronger then Yoruichi, but Aizen stopped Ichigo dead in his tracks with one finger.

[AznPoi]

But we're talking about speed here. Yoruichi is way faster than Byakuya. Remember when Byakuya stabbed her and then she suddenly appeared on his shoulders. She's like, you are a slow ass Byakuya muhahahahaha. She might be faster than Ichigo, but we wouldn't know because they never compared speed. What we do know is that they are both faster than Byakuya.

[captain_soifon]

^also yoruichi doesnt seem to have a sword sop byakuya cant stack the little things on it to make her slower