Hougyoku *spoiler ep 61*

[geyut]

This is something I recently thought of:

Aizen said Rukia had Hougyoku in her soul, but Ichigo has the Hollow powers.
I beileve that when Rukia transferred her Shinigami powers to Ichigo, Ichigo also recieved Hougyoku, which is why HE has the hollow powers.
Comments?
Tell me what you think.

[jonat3]

My own theory is that the hougyoku affected ichigo, but only a little, cause it's behind a barrier. The shattered shaft completed the process.

And for those saying the hougyoku was placed together with the gigai, this is not so. It's this sentence that suggests that Urahara placed the hougyoku in rukia before she ever met Ichigo:

Aizen: "When i discovered this, you had already gone missing in the real world."

This sentence says that Aizen discovered the hougyoku was in rukia WHILE she was missing, not because.

[Sandal Hat]

The hougyoku has a protective barrier around it and Ichigo got his powers(both shinigami and hollow) through shattered shaft

Edit: I don't think it had any effect on Ichigo at all because it was behina barrier and Rukia only gave her shinigami powers to Ichigo. I don't see how the Hougyoku could affect him because it was still in her body and not Ichigo's

[Aarick]

Aizen: "When i discovered this, you had already gone missing in the real world."

he means when he found out about the hougyoku rukia had already lost her powers so she couldnt be detected cos she had no reitsu

[Sandal Hat]

I wonder how Aizen figured out the Hougyoku was inside of Rukia in the first place.

[jonat3]

Aizen: "When i discovered this, you had already gone missing in the real world."

he means when he found out about the hougyoku rukia had already lost her powers so she couldnt be detected cos she had no reitsu

Yes, but most people that think the hougyoku was placed at the same time as the gigai thought the sentence meant that Aizen discovered the hougyoku was in rukia BECAUSE she went missing. That's not what the sentence said. This sentence implies that the hougyoku was placed BEFORE rukia met Ichigo.

[ChronoTrigga]

You do notice that she's kneeling down in the white robe (which she got after Ichigo took all her powers) and then Urahara asks her if she needs a gigai (aka faux body)...the one he made from soul society before he left, and placed it in her soul along with affixing her soul into the faux body.

[jonat3]

You do notice that she's kneeling down in the white robe (which she got after Ichigo took all her powers) and then Urahara asks her if she needs a gigai (aka faux body)...the one he made from soul society before he left, and placed it in her soul along with affixing her soul into the faux body.

He did not place it together with the gigai. In the beginning i thought so too, since it would have been a perfect opportunity. But Aizen's sentence implies that he discovered the hougyoku was inside rukia WHILE she was missing. Not because. This implies that the hougyoku was already in rukia before she met Ichigo.

[Sandal Hat]

Doesn't the gigai take your power away little by little?

So maybe Aizen figured out that Aizen put it in her but, he couldn't chase after because by the time he figured it out Rukia's power was already gone.

[jonat3]

This is how i see things.

Aizen discovered the hougyoku was in rukia through his own means (how is a mystery). When he discovered it, rukia was already missing, cause shinigami can be detected through thier gigai. A shinigami is too far away, so detecting their spiritual energy would be too difficult, so detecting the gigai itself is necesary.

Urahara planned to turn rukia into a human, so that not even her spiritual powers could be detected. Shinigami are recognizable through their red reiraku afterall. That way, rukia couldn't be detected by her gigai, nor by her spiritual pressure. She would have been truly invisible.

Rukai got caught cause a hellmoth recognized her (i assume it saw the red reiraku and then looked at appearance). Saying more would be spoilers.

[vision33r]

Watching eps 61, it seems like Urahara offered Rukia the Gigai after she gave Ichigo her powers.

It wouldn't make sense that Urahara gave the hougyoku to her before meeting Ichigo. She would know or be suspicious of it.

Noticed that when Aizen was telling Rukia and Ichigo, she realized what Urahara had done and starting make some sense.

So disregard what you guys are reading in the anime because many times the translation and Japanese meanings are not present tense in terms of technicality.

Also, Urahara is NOT in Soul Society all this time and could not have given Rukia the Hougyoku until she met him after Ichigo took her powers.

[Firefight]

Huh Aizen's words tell us everything already

"At the time, the place he chose to hide it, was in you"

Urahara hid the Hougyoku in Rukia's soul

Then all that stuff about gigai and all, basically Urahara needed a way to hide the Hougyoku for a long time, so he made the spirit leeching gigai and gave it to Rukia to turn her soul into a human soul, therefore undetectable by Soul Society...as for how he knew Rukia was gonna meet Ichigo and lose her power and needed to get a gigai and all that....I dont know....and what he plans to do when Rukia, the normal human, grows old and dies...I dont know either O.o Weird plan

However I am a bit confused on the whole killing Rukia thing. Why not just chop her head off :p Must be some special way to extract the hougyoku or something.

[Polygon]

There is no way rukia had the hongyoku before she left SS. Remember he left 100 years ago? Yourichi left at the same time as well. Yet rukia didn't know who yourichi was and never met her. She just heard her names from stories etc. Unlss urahara went through the trouble of finding rukia before she even got into the acdemy.

As for how aizen knew, it's quite obvious. He knew she went missing. And he also knew that gigais come from SS. And after he found out that she couldn't be dected, he knew this must have had been Uraharas ding or she dies.

[MetalgearV2]

the Hougyoku was in the special gigai that urahara gave to rukia, saying she had it inside her before she lost her powers makes no sense otherwise im sure aizen/gin would of found it in her when she was still in SS, i bet it wasnt planned for rukia or anything cunning like that, its was just a a stroke of luck on urahara's part that he found a shinigami soul to put in the faux body.

[geyut]

In response to the whole "it has a barrier so he couldnt have absorbed it" theory, don't you rememver that Rukia only meant to give a part of her power, but Ichigo absorbed all of it. He is an ultra-powerful soul apparantly, and I still think he took it from her, but who knows.

[Nood]

In response to the whole "it has a barrier so he couldnt have absorbed it" theory, don't you rememver that Rukia only meant to give a part of her power, but Ichigo absorbed all of it. He is an ultra-powerful soul apparantly, and I still think he took it from her, but who knows.
Omg, this is just stupid.

Urahara made that special gigai to hide the Hougyoku.

When Rukia gave her powers to Ichigo she didnt have a gigai.

Urahara COULD NOT KNOW that Rukia will lose her powers and will need a gigai.

Thus she DIDNT had Hougyoku in her when she lost her powers.

The only thing i dont know that when did Urahara gave the gigai to Rukia. She wore that white dress in the flashback. And i think she got it when she got caged in SS. I just cant place it anywhere in time.

[Chronomaru]

Ok the only reason he has hollow powers was because Ichigo was turning into a hollow because he had no shinigami powers. THEN he gained the powers half way into a hollow. Therefore the hollow never really went fully away.

[Uruhara]

Just close this thread, there's no real way to tell without bringing in spoilers from the Manga.

[jonat3]

I don't know how Urahara planted the hougyoku (he may have used Yoruichi and looked for someone suitable in west rukongai or something). But i do know he did it before rukia met ichigo. Aizen's one sentence about his discovery of the location should make that clear. The fact that rukia lost her powers was probably a fortunate coincedence for Urahara.

[vision33r]

I don't know how Urahara planted the hougyoku (he may have used Yoruichi and looked for someone suitable in west rukongai or something). But i do know he did it before rukia met ichigo. Aizen's one sentence about his discovery of the location should make that clear. The fact that rukia lost her powers was probably a fortunate coincedence for Urahara.

Like I said before, DO NOT READ Aizen's Statement AS IS. The translation in Japanese does not fully translate correctly into English.

Man, you sure don't have any analytical skills...

Like most people said, there is no way that Urahara planted the Hougyoku into Rukia before she lost her power.

Since:

- When Ichigo met Rukia, she was still a full Death God, no loss of *reiatsu*
- When Rukia got the gigai, she noticed her powers was not recovering, because of the Hougyoku planted in the gigai diminishing her powers
- Eps61 clearly shows Urahara offering Rukia help, when she just gave Ichigo her powers.

Aizen's statement merely stated that when he found out, Rukia already left Soul Society and gotten the gigai and was not traceable anymore... indicating that she took the hougyoku....

Think before you read the lines...

[Amu]

This is something I recently thought of:

Aizen said Rukia had Hougyoku in her soul, but Ichigo has the Hollow powers.
I beileve that when Rukia transferred her Shinigami powers to Ichigo, Ichigo also recieved Hougyoku, which is why HE has the hollow powers.
Comments?
Tell me what you think.

hmm...No man
Ichigo has hollow powers due to the training with Urahara! He became hollow and fought against the hollow side but it did not disappear

[DeaTH_TroT]

It not possible that Hougyoku is placed in Rukia before meeting Ichigo...If so, she wld have know who Urahara is when she met him after she transferred her powers to Ichigo....
Most probably Urahara has kept Hougyoku away together with him n get exiled to the real world...At the same time, finding a soul who can hide the Hougyoku forever with his special gigai...since at that point of time when Ichigo gained Shinigami powers n fight his 1st hollow, im sure Urahara sensed his reiatsu n went over there to have a look....then seeing Rukia losing her powers, he might have thought that this is the opportunity to give the special gigai to Rukia and then hide the Hougyoku in her.
Then at the same time, Aizen knowing Urahara is in the real world, must have been keeping in touch the happenings down there. upon hearing Rukia's disappearance, he must have known dat something is amiss....after investigating n tracing it to Urahara, he then is sure that Hougyoku is in her and Urahara wanted to hide it forever in the real world....
Thus....the whole Rukia execution plan begins...I think this sounds more logical ya~
hehe........

[jonat3]

Like I said before, DO NOT READ Aizen's Statement AS IS. The translation in Japanese does not fully translate correctly into English.

Man, you sure don't have any analytical skills...

Like most people said, there is no way that Urahara planted the Hougyoku into Rukia before she lost her power.

Since:

- When Ichigo met Rukia, she was still a full Death God, no loss of *reiatsu*
- When Rukia got the gigai, she noticed her powers was not recovering, because of the Hougyoku planted in the gigai diminishing her powers
- Eps61 clearly shows Urahara offering Rukia help, when she just gave Ichigo her powers.

Aizen's statement merely stated that when he found out, Rukia already left Soul Society and gotten the gigai and was not traceable anymore... indicating that she took the hougyoku....

Think before you read the lines...

It would have to be one major coincedence for both anime and manga to mistranslate that single sentence.

People have a knack to disregard what the text says if it doesn't fit their interpretations. I'm not like that. I don't make assumptions. I assume the text has been correctly translated, since that involves less guesswork (especially since both anime and manga have almost that exact same sentence).

And also, it's the gigai that made her lose her powers and be invisible, not the hougyoku. Urahara did that to make her truly invisible, since she could still be detected by her red reiraku. You say i have to read, but you need to read back yourself and see that it's only the gigai that makes her invisble, not the hougyoku.

I agree that placing the hougyoku seems to be a perfect opportunity to place the hougyoku, but after reading that single line of text, i'm not so sure anymore. The event of rukia losing her powers may have been a fortunate event. He could have had an alternative plan on hiding it, but switched his plans cause rukia already lost her powers.

Edit: @DeaTH_Trot

Aizen made it sound that her disappearance didn't have anything to do with his finding out that the hougyoku was in her. More that he noticed she was missing after he found out the hougyoku was in her.

[Trinthakis]

Well if she didn't have it in her before she met Ichigo then in the first ep what was stopping her from sensing any hollows. She says there is a huge power stopping her and it's not ichigo because he can't even release his power enough for the hollow to find him directly so there had to be some other power stopping her and that may have well been the Hougyoku.

[jonat3]

Well if she didn't have it in her before she met Ichigo then in the first ep what was stopping her from sensing any hollows. She says there is a huge power stopping her and it's not ichigo because he can't even release his power enough for the hollow to find him directly so there had to be some other power stopping her and that may have well been the Hougyoku.

According to rukia, it was indeed Ichigo that was interfering with her senses. According to the episode, his spiritual powers got triggered once he touched a ghost. That's why the hollow attacked his family.

[Nood]

We should know when did Urahara got exiled, if before than Rukia got to be a Shinigami than its impossible that he gave her the Hougyoku before she met Ichigo.

[Shaehl]

Urahara went into exile 100 years ago if I remember correctly, and Rukia is supposedly around 150 years old.

[vision33r]

It would have to be one major coincedence for both anime and manga to mistranslate that single sentence.

People have a knack to disregard what the text says if it doesn't fit their interpretations. I'm not like that. I don't make assumptions. I assume the text has been correctly translated, since that involves less guesswork (especially since both anime and manga have almost that exact same sentence).

And also, it's the gigai that made her lose her powers and be invisible, not the hougyoku. Urahara did that to make her truly invisible, since she could still be detected by her red reiraku. You say i have to read, but you need to read back yourself and see that it's only the gigai that makes her invisble, not the hougyoku.

I agree that placing the hougyoku seems to be a perfect opportunity to place the hougyoku, but after reading that single line of text, i'm not so sure anymore. The event of rukia losing her powers may have been a fortunate event. He could have had an alternative plan on hiding it, but switched his plans cause rukia already lost her powers.

Edit: @DeaTH_Trot

Aizen made it sound that her disappearance didn't have anything to do with his finding out that the hougyoku was in her. More that he noticed she was missing after he found out the hougyoku was in her.

Once again, it shows how little understanding of Japanese or Asian languages and how English translations are not 100% accurate "interpretations" because directly translations, especially how quick the subbers have done, they often misses correctly translating the actual meanings.

You are assuming that Aizen found out about where the hougyoku was and Rukia had left Soul Society, meaning that she had it before.

The actual Japanese meaning of his statement should be this:

"When I found out that you(Rukia) had the houkyoku, you are not in Soul Society already and was not traceable" - Aizen

This is my translation of his statement.

Also you have to assume, how did Aizen found out about Urahara giving Rukia the thing?? Who told him??

The person that told him is most likely the 1st Death God that went looking for her, remember there was a mysterious person that asked that guy to look for Rukia because she "over-stayed" in Soul Society. The guy end up learning about Rukia losing her death god powers and also noticed that she has not fully regain it. When he went back to Soul Society, Aizen probably suspected that Urahara slipped the gigai into Rukia.

[jonat3]

Once again, it shows how little understanding of Japanese or Asian languages and how English translations are not 100% accurate "interpretations" because directly translations, especially how quick the subbers have done, they often misses correctly translating the actual meanings.

You are assuming that Aizen found out about where the hougyoku was and Rukia had left Soul Society, meaning that she had it before.

The actual Japanese meaning of his statement should be this:

"When I found out that you(Rukia) had the houkyoku, you are not in Soul Society already and was not traceable" - Aizen

This is my translation of his statement.

Also you have to assume, how did Aizen found out about Urahara giving Rukia the thing?? Who told him??

The person that told him is most likely the 1st Death God that went looking for her, remember there was a mysterious person that asked that guy to look for Rukia because she "over-stayed" in Soul Society. The guy end up learning about Rukia losing her death god powers and also noticed that she has not fully regain it. When he went back to Soul Society, Aizen probably suspected that Urahara slipped the gigai into Rukia.

Actually, i am quite aware how different asian languages are. I'm asian myself. That's why i read multiple translations, compare and talk with the translators. Once i'm (reasonably) sure that the meaning is roughly accurate, i disregard that the original language was japanese and start nitpicking english meaning.

My strength may not be in translation, but my strength IS in the english language. It's ironic that even if translators know how to translate, they have a hard time interpreting pieces of english text. The way you translated that sentence for example has the very same implications as the sentences from manga-rain and dattebayo. It also implies that Aizen didn't discover that the hougyoku was in rukia because she went missing.

Of course it's possible something got lost in translation, but you will have to word that sentence differently again, to fit what you think it should say. Only, one has to wonder if you would still catch the original meaning of the text that way.

[KenpachiW/Bankai]

i dont think its like that
remebr aizen said the hougyoku was inside the gigai or the temp. body that urahara gave to rukia as she slowly reagained her powers but that was after she gave her powers to ichigo so ichigo doesnt have the hougyoku inside him