Gay Marriage

[Nesquik]

No, in the bible it doesn't say that but it says:
"In marriage, when a man and a woman unite their souls..."
so it's all about the person, it's like they can marry but i think that by the church is just not right

[James Cizuz]

No, in the bible it doesn't say that but it says:
"In marriage, when a man and a woman unite their souls..."
so it's all about the person, it's like they can marry but i think that by the church is just not right
It also says if a man lays with another man as he lays with a women, it is an abomination, and they should be put to death.
So if you really wanted to get out of being put to death as an homosexual by the church, you might be able to get married, just never have sex. Although thats excluding the old testament, it makes it very clear that marriage is between a women and man, and not a man/man|women/women.

[shaberry]

Personally...I don't think anything is wrong with gay marriage. What's the big deal anyway? Marriage is about two people who believe that they are in love and want a paper to legally show that they're bound to each other for life. Does one's sexual orientation really matter?

[Nesquik]

It also says if a man lays with another man as he lays with a women, it is an abomination, and they should be put to death.
So if you really wanted to get out of being put to death as an homosexual by the church, you might be able to get married, just never have sex. Although thats excluding the old testament, it makes it very clear that marriage is between a women and man, and not a man/man|women/women.
some people read the bible and think that because god putted a man and a woman that's the only way it should work, some people think that if they marry and adopt their kids wont be happy, but most of that are lies

[M-50]

Dont get offended anyone, but imo being gay is not a naturally normal orientation...You don't born to be gay...
Well sorry to burst your bubble, but some scientists now think that gay's are born like that. It is not an illness or anything, it is just a preference. So if they are gay, why should they be denied right like any other citizen. Before the government knows they are homosexual, they have the same rights as any other citizen. After, they don't. That is segregation against a type of persons.

btw, Bulworth and Aru-Chii can you make your posts longer please next time. Thanks.

[Shaz.]

i personally believe that gay marriage should be aloud, because

A. its there own choice what they do in life and no one should try and stop that, if they want to be gay let them be gay and get married.

B. People should get used to it, it not like they have a choice in the matter if a same sex couple want to spend the rest of their life together, they might as well be allowed to get married and have it all done legally because it wont stop them from living together.

[WhyteDragon]

I believe that they should be aloud the right to marry. They work, pay taxes and spend money that fuels the economy just like Joe & Sally Smith. So why not. Just because a group of people dont like it. Times are changing and the older farts need to get used to it. What they do in their bedrooms isn't what anyone should worry about.
Give them the right. Give them the bonus of being married that comes from taxes and insurances and legal issues.
If a employer has to be "equal opportunity employer" which includes sexuality, then why can't marriage and society.

[Yumi694]

I personally Hate it when someone says 'No same sex couples can't get married because it's just not right' who said it was your choice if Bob and Bill can get married! It's not your life and it has nothing to do with you!

Let them be married. Just cause the government says they can't get legally married doesn't mean they won't be together. They are more than likey still going to be together married or not.

I am VERY touchy on this subject and could rant for hours on end. I may not be gay but I still believe they have the same rights as straight people do. I say we let them get married and be happy together.

[Kray]

"You're aren't born gay, you just choose that life style"

That's the biggest load of crap that I've ever heard. No offense to anyone that believes that, since we're all entitled to our own beliefs. IMO, you have NO right to say that people are born gay or not, if you are not homosexual. How would you know? You're straight. You're what is called "normal". Would you ever think of being gay? NO. Why? Because you don't want to live an unaccepted life. You don't want to have people look down on you every day, because of the gender you fall in love with. You are, accepted.

Well, flip the table for a second, and place your feet in my shoes. I dare you. Imagine what it would be like to never be able to show any sort of public display of affection. Imagine what it's like to go out to dinner, and have over 100 eyes staring at you because "omg it's two gays at a dinner table". You think I chose this lifestyle? I must loooove negative attention, if I did.

Sure, there's people that are gay, that go for counseling to try to become straight. Honestly, the will never be who they really are, if they do that.

Illegal or not, I'll find that someone, have a family, just like you will.

[WhyteDragon]

All my through my childhood my brother called me gay (lesbian) because I would look instead of look away. I know what it feels like. To me the womans body is a work of art.

I went the route of conforming to the public. I ended up having "Normal relationships". I am now married and have to kids. Though inside I don't always feel right about it. My family would hate if I went back.

So now I fight for both sides and I believe that we should clean up our act and give them the same rights to do as normal couples do.

[ichigofan_2368]

gay marriage is gay

[Shaz.]

gay marriage is gay


hey what is that meant to mean? are you using gay as in its bad? and explain your point

[WhyteDragon]

gay marriage is gay


You have to post more then that! and you have to make a point about your feelings...

[Nood]

Hmm, I wouldn't allow it.
Nothing against gay people or anything, but nature itself made the male and the female "the match". So since gay people can do everything they want to, just like straight people, atleast leave this title to those naturally matched people.
Thats my separate opinion without anything deeper.
Other then that, allowing gay marriage can induce a "gay" trend in the long run of the state where it is allowed.
Kids see it, kids get accustemed to it, kids like it more then the normal way. (sorry to use the word normal, but its simply the traditional use, but so to say, humans always had a thing to do something not-normal)
In the end it reduces population growth.
In a world where scientist are researching how can each gender
live without the other, its simply dangerous to let it go farther.

[Kray]

its simply dangerous to let it go farther.

What is so dangerous about being homosexual?

It's not like all the gays are Medusa or something.
Look at us, and you turn into a big 'ole homo.
Nope.

We get the same jobs as "normal people", same houses, same cars, same food, same oxygen, same education, same doctors, same friends, same hobbies, and same music.
So, what makes us so different? We just want to be equal...sound familiar, like from your American History class(es) with other situations?

The only reason why being gay is dangerous, is because it's not accepted. It's very common these days for a homosexual person to lose their life due to a hate crime.

Why does it have to be like that?

[Nood]

What is so dangerous about being homosexual?
It's not like all the gays are Medusa or something.
Look at us, and you turn into a big 'ole homo.
Nope.
We get the same jobs as "normal people", same houses, same cars, same food, same oxygen, same education, same doctors, same friends, same hobbies, and same music.
So, what makes us so different? We just want to be equal...sound familiar, like from your American History class(es) with other situations?
The only reason why being gay is dangerous, is because it's not accepted. It's very common these days for a homosexual person to lose their life due to a hate crime.
Why does it have to be like that?

I don't know how much you wanna accept it, but for the kids, the upcoming generations, seeing gay couples a lot has an effect on them. I'm not talking about turning the current generations gay, thats ofcourse impossible. But in the long run, through lots of generations there'll be more homosexuals due to simply seeing it as the common/normal behaviour in their younger years.
Its like, when they grow up to start thinking about intimate relationships they'll have the gay path open already. That'll just lead to more and more gays in every upcoming generation. And where does that lead?
Less compatible couples, less true families. (yes, gay couples can't make their own child, adoptation is another thing but the family line breaks)
In the long run, the population will greatly decrease just because of that.
The world is already dying so why speed it up with something like this.

Gays are already accepted almost every developed countries. You don't get special treatment or anything, marriage was a thing made for a woman and a man to bind themselves together. The tradition is alrdy btuchered thanks to divorcing...
Just leave it alone...its not like a couple can't live their lives happily if they arent married.

[Kray]

i think that a large or a huge percentage of gays are the source of immorality.
if i we're Kira from deathnote or Mikami Teru i'd probably eliminated gays.

i dont use personal feelings (or i'd rather use dangerous methods). i think, that shud be absolute since the birth of human race. (yes absoluteness!!)
it dus'nt matter if some of them are the saviors of earth. it dus'nt matter whether einstien was a gay. so in general, it dus'nt matter what ever achievements they made.
gay should not exist from the beggining.
the large number of immorality coming from them actually defines them.
and this kind of gay trend is passed thru-out generations.

First of all, homosexuality isn't passed around like some damn disease. It can't be "passed around", and it's not a trend. It's a way of life.

And second of all, you saying you want to eliminate gays..
You want to "get rid" of me, because of my orientation.
Well, if you wanna do that, then I'll say something that's just as BS as anything else.
You wanna get rid of me for being gay, and I wanna get rid of you for improper spelling.

Sound fair?


I don't know how much you wanna accept it, but for the kids, the upcoming generations, seeing gay couples a lot has an effect on them. I'm not talking about turning the current generations gay, thats ofcourse impossible. But in the long run, through lots of generations there'll be more homosexuals due to simply seeing it as the common/normal behaviour in their younger years.
Its like, when they grow up to start thinking about intimate relationships they'll have the gay path open already. That'll just lead to more and more gays in every upcoming generation. And where does that lead?
Less compatible couples, less true families. (yes, gay couples can't make their own child, adoptation is another thing but the family line breaks)
In the long run, the population will greatly decrease just because of that.
The world is already dying so why speed it up with something like this.

Gays are already accepted almost every developed countries. You don't get special treatment or anything, marriage was a thing made for a woman and a man to bind themselves together. The tradition is alrdy btuchered thanks to divorcing...
Just leave it alone...its not like a couple can't live their lives happily if they arent married.


I see what you're saying about the butchering because of divorcing, and I totally agree. Yes, I believe marriage is a sacred thing, but I feel it's between two people. Not just a man and a woman. So what. The bible says all that stuff about it being an abomination, but are you really going to live your life - just by what a book tells you? (No offense intended)

And the whole thing about raising kids in gay families...
Just because a kid will have two dads, or two moms, doesn't mean they are going to be gay! Are you serious? I'm the only gay person in my family line. I sure as hell wasn't brought up around homosexuality. I took martial arts, I went to baseball games, I played sports, and blah blah blah. While I was growing up, there wasn't one ounce of homosexuality in life. I didn't even KNOW what it was until I started to figure out that I was. So how are you going to say that raising a kid in a gay environment is going to make them turn gay? It's entirely untrue, especially in my family - with my homophobic father whom abandoned me when I came out.

We're going to kill the population. RIGHT. I'd have to disagree. We're over populated as it is, right now anyways :p. Just kidding.

You know how many kids are ABANDONED? Or parents that give birth to the child, and just leave them? What do you call all that? A wise investment? You're kidding.

[lorraineChan]

It's totally wrong..God only created man and woman..no gays and lesbians..

[Nood]

Ofcourse, one can grow up gay from straight parents, with no contact to anything "gay" (lol). Ofcourse its a rare case.
On the other hand...if you make the parents gay, wouldnt you reverse the whole thing?
The growing up kid looks up at hes/her parents only for years, he/she learns from them, everything.
In a gay family, the chances that the child will become gay aswell are loads higher then in a normal family.
The kids always choose their first role model as one of their parents.

Don't tell me you never tried going for women, just because your family/society thinks thats the normal. The surroundings affect the children, the first learning method is imitation, all these small things would affect the child, and this just pushes him toward it.
You make it sound like that I'm saying "gay couples will only produce gay kids", it snot true I know, but chances are way higher they'll do.
Abandoned childs are not countable, they are here either weay, they wont help the population dropping.

About the bible and stuff, y'know I red it once and didnt even see it since, I hate going into a temple and I'm supposedly a christian, couldn't care less about it. But marriage is something that grown out from it alrdy, and even I respect it enough that I don't want it to change even more, it already lookslike some government procedure, I don't want it to be a certificate for those who want to tighten their relationship, I want it to stay as the "inseparable" bond between men and women, thats what it was supposed to be. one of the 2 points is alrdy a lie, I dont want the other to be aswell.

[Kray]

Ofcourse, one can grow up gay from straight parents, with no contact to anything "gay" (lol). Ofcourse its a rare case.
On the other hand...if you make the parents gay, wouldnt you reverse the whole thing?
The growing up kid looks up at hes/her parents only for years, he/she learns from them, everything.
In a gay family, the chances that the child will become gay aswell are loads higher then in a normal family.
The kids always choose their first role model as one of their parents.
Don't tell me you never tried going for women, just because your family/society thinks thats the normal. The surroundings affect the children, the first learning method is imitation, all these small things would affect the child, and this just pushes him toward it.
You make it sound like that I'm saying "gay couples will only produce gay kids", it snot true I know, but chances are way higher they'll do.
Abandoned childs are not countable, they are here either weay, they wont help the population dropping.
About the bible and stuff, y'know I red it once and didnt even see it since, I hate going into a temple and I'm supposedly a christian, couldn't care less about it. But marriage is something that grown out from it alrdy, and even I respect it enough that I don't want it to change even more, it already lookslike some government procedure, I don't want it to be a certificate for those who want to tighten their relationship, I want it to stay as the "inseparable" bond between men and women, thats what it was supposed to be. one of the 2 points is alrdy a lie, I dont want the other to be aswell.

-Rare case? How many gay people do you know? All of the ones I know, their families pretty much think different of their children because of the fact that they're gay. All my gay friends were raised in straight families, and now at least one of their parents hates them.

-Of course I tried going out with a girl, how else would I know that I was gay? I didn't do it because Mom and Dad told me to. I did it because it was what I was around. In Middle and High school, you're surrounded by straight couples. They're everywhere! It's like the plague, lol. I did it because I thought I liked her. Well, I did! But not enough. Mom and Dad had no say in the fact that I wanted a girlfriend. I just...did it. Also, wouldn't it depend on the parenting? There are plenty of bad parents out there (my father), but the kids come out alright. I don't wanna say "to be raised as straight or gay" because that's not something that could be helped. It's not like I will wake up tomorrow and go "Hmmm..I think I'll be straight and go get a girlfriend now". In fact, I wish. That way I wouldn't have to life the unaccepted life I live. I wouldn't have to be made fun of, and scared of being killed at night by a hate crime. None of that would be a worry for me, and I would just live life. But since I am gay, I figure I need to stand up for myself and go for what I believe in.

@yushin:

Kids are easy to influence, but if you tell little Timmy to go kiss little Jonny on the hand, he wont do it! Don't you remember being a little kid? You were gullible, not stupid.

Just because a kid has two dads, doesn't mean he's going to be gay. Get that through your head. I doesn't even have a higher chance.
I actually have a friend in New York that has two dads, and he's straight - and on the high school hockey team. So.


Anyway, I'm off to work. Later days.

[Nood]

-Rare case? How many gay people do you know? All of the ones I know, their families pretty much think different of their children because of the fact that they're gay. All my gay friends were raised in straight families, and now at least one of their parents hates them.

-Of course I tried going out with a girl, how else would I know that I was gay? I didn't do it because Mom and Dad told me to. I did it because it was what I was around. In Middle and High school, you're surrounded by straight couples. They're everywhere! It's like the plague, lol. I did it because I thought I liked her. Well, I did! But not enough. Mom and Dad had no say in the fact that I wanted a girlfriend. I just...did it. Also, wouldn't it depend on the parenting? There are plenty of bad parents out there (my father), but the kids come out alright. I don't wanna say "to be raised as straight or gay" because that's not something that could be helped. It's not like I will wake up tomorrow and go "Hmmm..I think I'll be straight and go get a girlfriend now". In fact, I wish. That way I wouldn't have to life the unaccepted life I live. I wouldn't have to be made fun of, and scared of being killed at night by a hate crime. None of that would be a worry for me, and I would just live life. But since I am gay, I figure I need to stand up for myself and go for what I believe in.

Anyway, I'm off to work. Later days.

It is a rare case, firstofall compared to straight people, gays are still just a minority, and since gays come "from straight people", it is still just aminor occurence. there are also those people who turned gay after a gay approached them (I know people like this).

But either way, your highlighter text proves my point.
Kids grown up in a gay family will be around gays ofcourse, and they'll try it out like you did.
That is NOT natural. Men and women are attracted to eachother by nature, what would happen there is basically forcing the kid to try out something unnatural, but natural to him/her thanks to how he/she grew up.
So basically, everyone who grows up in these families will be subconciously forced to try out being gay. Ofcours this is generalizing to a gay couple raising a child, not including close family/really close friends or the alike who can also influence the child.

Also, the gay community should notice that with the intentions of gay marriage they are just generating more hate against gay people from straight people, in the end getting more discriminated and isolated. No matter how you look at it the serious christian community takes this as an attack against something sacred by "abnormal" people, you cant make people accept it thisway.

[WhyteDragon]

I think it just needs to be accepted since "gays" are not just going to go away.
As far as generations being gay, Hey, I'm all for it. Since then if it does have a impact on the human race to reduce the population then great. The human parasite will be down a generation or two. Then that means nature and the earth can recover from our devistation. (spelling)
If we look back this is very much like when African Americans wanted rights like everyone else. It may not have been marriage rights but in the same it was rights all the same.

[yushin]

sorry to be rude but i just want to ask.
is this thread by any chance was created by a gay?

its not that i think there's a merit discussing it here.
bcause probably all the gays here would swam this place
and blog about their existence.

well sorry about that.
also discussing will only increase the influence.
which shud be not.

that's blasphemy towards god.

[WhyteDragon]

Not to be rude???

Just about the way that you post is rude. Its your opinion I understand ... but dang....
The internet and as far as I know on CB you can talk about anything Gay or not... since it is free speech. Now this is a debate.... If you dont like to talk or read about "gay" stuff then dont read, post or reply to it... just keep on truckin...

As far as to why the debate was started it was friends that had a person talk/debate about it and he/she wanted to she how we felt.

And NO... I dont think the place will be "Swarmed" by "gays" to chat it up in here.

Argh.... That pev'd me....

[shaberry]

sorry to be rude but i just want to ask.
is this thread by any chance was created by a gay?

its not that i think there's a merit discussing it here.
bcause probably all the gays here would swam this place
and blog about their existence.

well sorry about that.
also discussing will only increase the influence.
which shud be not.

that's blasphemy towards god.
(but im not a religious person. im just pretending to be)

Yushin, this is a debate thread. Although you are allowed to post your opinions about gay marriage, please make them constructive. Your last post was totally irrelevant to the thread and you knew it. So, please keep to the topic at hand.

Hmmm...are we discussing gay marraiges in here according to religion or to state law? Because if we're discussing it in accordance to religion, yes, gay marriage is wrong. However, I'm still for it. I find nothing wrong with how a person chooses their sexual preferance. The bible and religious teachings focus on LOVE and creation. So, technically they balance eachother out in relation to gay marraiges, because the reason why gay people want to be married is to get a paper that signifies their bond and their love.

Now, gay marriage in accordance to state law, I believe that it should be approved. According to the constitution, in the 1st amendment, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." So, gay marriage shouldn't be discriminated against (if related to religion). Also, freedom of speech includes actions and expressive conduct. So, if you think about it, the "expressive conduct" of gay marriages and relationships are technically protected by the constitution. Unless anyone thinks that gay marriage is drastically harmful in some way.

Which reminds me, aside from religion, can someone please tell me why gay relationships are so wrong? I really don't see what's so wrong about it. I mean, they do the same exact things that a straight couple do. Granted, that the way they perform intercourse is slightly different. But even then, some straight couples have intercourse the same way gay couples do. However, I believe that what a couple does behind closed doors is none of anyone's business. And if someone rants about how they can't have kids, so what? Really, I mean, even a few straight couples don't have the ability to give birth to or create a child. Another reason I can possibly think of why people are so disturbed by gay relationships is that it's just different. That's the problem with people now-a-days, is that everyone's so scared of becoming different that they shun things or people who are different from the norm. And if someone say's that gay relationships are wrong because their public displays of affection are disturbing, then look the other way. No one's obligated to look at other people in public. So, what exactly is so horribly wrong with a gay relationship?

[Setsuna Ai]

shaberry the reason why the bible hates homosexuals is because it's one way of going against how god made you. So love is canceled out there.

As for the debate, Shaberry is right about how the first constitution protects their right to be married. I don't see how that can injure, kill, harm anyone at all either. And to say it's wrong because of the fact the homosexuals are "different" and the minority of the world is pretty stupid.

It is a rare case, firstofall compared to straight people, gays are still just a minority, and since gays come "from straight people", it is still just aminor occurence. there are also those people who turned gay after a gay approached them (I know people like this).

But either way, your highlighter text proves my point.
Kids grown up in a gay family will be around gays ofcourse, and they'll try it out like you did.
That is NOT natural. Men and women are attracted to eachother by nature, what would happen there is basically forcing the kid to try out something unnatural, but natural to him/her thanks to how he/she grew up.
So basically, everyone who grows up in these families will be subconciously forced to try out being gay. Ofcours this is generalizing to a gay couple raising a child, not including close family/really close friends or the alike who can also influence the child.



Wait so we should ban gay marriage because it's not natural? If that's the case then let's ban things like plastic surgery, I mean it's just not natural to alter your physique that way. As for a gay couple influencing a child, is pure assumption. Wh knows what could really happen? And what if they did influence the child? The child becoming gay doesn't hurt you in any way.

Also, the gay community should notice that with the intentions of gay marriage they are just generating more hate against gay people from straight people, in the end getting more discriminated and isolated. No matter how you look at it the serious christian community takes this as an attack against something sacred by "abnormal" people, you cant make people accept it thisway
So what are you saying? Instead of teaching people proper tolerance and abolishing prejudice, you'll let them keep hating? Hating more or hating less either way, the people are hating. If homosexuality is immoral so is prejudice. Society should know better than this. Our era is the era in which apartheid was taken out, civil rights, tolerance, open-mindedness etc are practiced and given to people of difference race but now we're withholding it against people of different sexual orientation?!

Even if gays are the minority, they're still human beings. They have no control over what they prefer, and taking away their rights to prove their love for somewhat is not only unconstitutional but also very very very ignorant. I believe America has forgotten that the Catholic church should not have a huge influence over our laws.

[shaberry]

shaberry the reason why the bible hates homosexuals is because it's one way of going against how god made you. So love is canceled out there.
So then it kinda then does cancel it out...one thing for another. Because if you think about it...the bible preaches about how we should love one another no matter what. However...it does say that God made man and woman to create. So, technically it cancels out. Not to mention one of the things Jesus preached about is "Love God as I have loved you." So, if we are all created in God's likelyness and image...we should all love and accept eachother. Ehhh...but then again...I guess I'll drop this I'm not much of a religious nut anyway. -.-;;; I figure...God loves everyone no matter what you are. ^-^

However, I do agree with you on everything else ^-^

[Setsuna Ai]

^From bible classes i took in middle school, we were taught to stop homosexual acts but forgive and love the person itself. That is what I think confused you. We can love the person but not what he/she does (ever heard of, "the actions themselves are bad but not the person"?). Though I don't entirely agree with that concept. It's like forcing someone to be celibate all their lives. I guess it all depends on your point of view.

[Kray]

its not that i think there's a merit discussing it here.
bcause probably all the gays here would swam this place
and blog about their existence.
well sorry about that.
also discussing will only increase the influence.
which shud be not.
that's blasphemy towards god.
(but im not a religious person. im just pretending to be)

How DARE you.

"Blog about their existence" Like we're some sort of endangered species, or anything BUT human.

Blasphemy towards god. Well, I'll tell you what...
- Sex before marriage
- Foul language
- Hate crimes towards fellow mankind
- etc.

All things that fall into that category = "blasphemy towards god".


All you have said, in this thread, has come off as rude.
Maybe there's a way you can try to NOT be.
Try finding better wording. :whatevah:

But either way, your highlighter text proves my point.
Kids grown up in a gay family will be around gays ofcourse, and they'll try it out like you did.
That is NOT natural. Men and women are attracted to eachother by nature, what would happen there is basically forcing the kid to try out something unnatural, but natural to him/her thanks to how he/she grew up.
So basically, everyone who grows up in these families will be subconciously forced to try out being gay. Ofcours this is generalizing to a gay couple raising a child, not including close family/really close friends or the alike who can also influence the child.

Also, the gay community should notice that with the intentions of gay marriage they are just generating more hate against gay people from straight people, in the end getting more discriminated and isolated. No matter how you look at it the serious christian community takes this as an attack against something sacred by "abnormal" people, you cant make people accept it thisway.

Who said we would force homosexuality upon a child!

And for the last part. The attack on gays will NEVER stop. Even if marriage is legalized, the hate will never end. The beatings will never end. Personally, if someone hates me, I don't give a rats ass about what they think of me. Same thin works in this case. We're already hated --- no --- despised, so why quit.

[Gettles]

How about this way to solve the whole marriage debate. Civil Unions for everyone. Gay or straight you get a civil union for all the rights that are at this moment given to married couples. The term marriage is then becomes nothing more then a ceremonial title with no legal standing.
There no one will be happy, the best possible outcome.

[WhyteDragon]

Easy Kray. She got under my skin too.
Some forget that you can speak and think one way.... but ... when one types it comes off a very different way.

Maybe civil unions would be a better route... but ... lets say if a couple has a civil union and then for the marriage part has to got to counseling in order to obtain the marriage.That would make it more equal...

[5000]

what ever other people want to do let them do it as long as its not hurting anything!

[Setsuna Ai]

^that's what everyone's been saying. But for some reason, it doesn't solve anything.

How about this way to solve the whole marriage debate. Civil Unions for everyone. Gay or straight you get a civil union for all the rights that are at this moment given to married couples. The term marriage is then becomes nothing more then a ceremonial title with no legal standing.
There no one will be happy, the best possible outcome.
Oh wait so you're saying, "let's play the tyrant here and take away from everyone's happiness? Personally, I would love to be married in church. I grew up religiously and yes I want the beautiful wedding in a beautiful church with beautiful vows and beautiful flowers and etc. It's the sort of happiness that people of America are entitled to. What we all really need is to smack ignorance out of everyone.

@ Whytedragon, I didn't really understand your post. Have counseling after the civil union? If you're talking about a church marriage, hun, they're not going to allow you in even after counseling (if you're lutheran, they will though since lutherans are one of the reformists who accept homosexuality).

[Nood]

Wait so we should ban gay marriage because it's not natural? If that's the case then let's ban things like plastic surgery, I mean it's just not natural to alter your physique that way. As for a gay couple influencing a child, is pure assumption. Wh knows what could really happen? And what if they did influence the child? The child becoming gay doesn't hurt you in any way.
So what are you saying? Instead of teaching people proper tolerance and abolishing prejudice, you'll let them keep hating? Hating more or hating less either way, the people are hating. If homosexuality is immoral so is prejudice. Society should know better than this. Our era is the era in which apartheid was taken out, civil rights, tolerance, open-mindedness etc are practiced and given to people of difference race but now we're withholding it against people of different sexual orientation?!
Even if gays are the minority, they're still human beings. They have no control over what they prefer, and taking away their rights to prove their love for somewhat is not only unconstitutional but also very very very ignorant. I believe America has forgotten that the Catholic church should not have a huge influence over our laws.

Yes, plastic surgery is not natural aswell, and guess what, I would be against it. But it comes from a method for healing, plastic surgery came in existence to make those who became distorted due to disease, or an accident and alike be able to regain their old looks. In a way to "look better". Ofcourse it is in the newfound human nature (disgusting nature) to take that and use it in the wrong way. We cant do anything about it now, cosmetic surgery, its wrong, but people always able to justify this with "ah I feel better that way, another botox pls"... And we couldnt ever ban the whole thing due to people who really need it. anyway...

So you say that your parents didnt influence you? Didn't they thought you that boys have p0n0s and ggirls have vag000s...and that they are to be jammed together? ( lol ;) )
The parents ALWAYS influence the child. If the parents are morons, theres a really good chance they'll turn their kid into a moron aswell, teaching him their own ways. Ofcourse this influence isnt always on the same scale, but its always there, undeniable.
Dunno about you, I would choose being hated less then being hated more.
Especially over concerning a right that brings only disadvantages for the minority that already has countless problems, the world is already progressing into accepting it entirely, there were times where you would've been hanged for it, now there are parts of the world where its alrdy entirely accepted, and with every new generation its more and more accepted, just wait until that time comes and simply try again, THEN you'll be able to fight for it with reasons and logic, and won't get generalized hate as a response.
The bride may kiss the groom now...oh wait, which one is which. Husband, wife?
Its a natural tradition, it simply doesn't work thisway, it wasnt made to work this way.
I'm from the new generation, I'm not married, but even I instinctively want it to stay what it is now. I accept gays, but I do not accept something like this that will only (even if remotely, and not on a thousandfold scale) spread it, it is still not the natural behaviour to the human beings to give up the isntinct that made humanity survive for the last few thousands of years.

Who said we would force homosexuality upon a child!
Lol, read all what I said again please. If you are raised, taught, influenced by gay parents, unconciously of it, you are still forced to accept it, and to develope another path of life, to change the instinctive selective system of a male/female.

[Setsuna Ai]

if you'll see thru it. you know what im telling is true.
ofcourse i dont expect that a single person wud agreee with me.
its not that im an anti-gay.
im just saying that mankind shud not have a gay.
so there wub be no disgrace among the men.
im actually thinking of stopping my posts here.
bcause i know and i've already seen thru it.
gay marriage is abominable.
man x man. what a disgrace.
if there is a female participant here.
who's a pro-gay and if you just want to help your friend stop venting on me.
im not directly hitting a person. im talking about the whole of it.
broadly speak, generally etc... etc..
if your a pro-gay or you just want to support you friend.
now thats not logical to discuss.
so i suggest that REAL men should stop posting here.
and also females. (but womens are too willing)
let the gay blog there existence here. and anything they want to debate.
so im telling all the men to stop posting here so that they will not be affected with the gays disgraceful thoughts.
----------------------
i am just posting here. thot its really rude but its a major fact and its the truth also.
no need to vent on me.
First of all Yushin, I don't speak on behalf of gay people, I speak on behalf of the people who are not getting the rights they deserve! You're saying homosexuals should not exist in order for humanity to be saved from disgrace? That's hypocrisy. Are you so perfect that you have the right to judge humans that way? Is your life so full of grace and benevolence that you have the very right to have that opinion?

The debate over gay marriage isn't just to defend homosexuals but also rights and happiness, the two things Americans fought against the British for.

I also don't understand how gay marriage is abominable. What have they done to you that makes you think so? Don't respond to me saying, "eew that's gross." Grow up. If you want this so-called "disgrace" to be taken away from the world, then let's take away all the other disgraceful things in this planet... rudeness, ignorance, crime, murder, liars, greed, charlatans, apathy, etc And that would mean not only taking you out, but the rest of the human race.

And the gays are not "blogging their existence." The purpose of debate, heck, forums, is to be able to discuss with people significant arguments and etc that are influential in our lives. An example of blogging their existence is making a whole web page of "how gay" they are <_<.

[Kray]

Yushin, I have nothing left to say to you.
You've totally gotten me heated by the things you say.

Saying that I'm not a REAL man. Buddy, you can piss off.
Seriously, I hope to never hear from you again.

I really like debating this topic with people, such as Nood, but when the likes of you come around - it makes me sick. All you've done is throw insults out there. Now, you've truly made me pissed off. With the list of things I wish I could say, I wont, because that's the immature thing to do.

Anyway, I'm gonna let that go, and just not think about it.
Lol, can't think of a time I've ever been more insulted via internet.

Nood-

Of course I was taught that the peepee goes in the va-jay-jay. Lmfao, it would be pretty scary if I didn't know that!

The parents DO influence the child, I never said that they didn't. We keep on misinterpreting each other :p. Just because a moron parent raised a kid, doesn't mean that the kid is going to be as dumb as a rock. I mean, maybe I'm just a freak of nature, but I didn't have the smartest dad. He'd come home drunk almost every night and try to sleep with my sister. Plus, he'd like to beat the crap out of myself and my mother (no this isn't a pity thing, btch plz :p). I know for a fact that I'll NEVER grow to be like that. Or, maybe there's just something wrong with me. Lol.

About being hated -
Out of people I meet, it's about even for those that end up hating me for being gay, and half that don't care. So, I'm already hated, I don't care what happens.

[Setsuna Ai]

Yes, plastic surgery is not natural aswell, and guess what, I would be against it. But it comes from a method for healing, plastic surgery came in existence to make those who became distorted due to disease, or an accident and alike be able to regain their old looks. In a way to "look better". Ofcourse it is in the newfound human nature (disgusting nature) to take that and use it in the wrong way. We cant do anything about it now, cosmetic surgery, its wrong, but people always able to justify this with "ah I feel better that way, another botox pls"... And we couldnt ever ban the whole thing due to people who really need it. anyway...

It makes them feel better so they need it? How is desiring something you're not, a necessity in life? If plastic surgery indeed came from the method of healing, then it should stay that way.

The bride may kiss the groom now...oh wait, which one is which. Husband, wife?
Its a natural tradition, it simply doesn't work thisway, it wasnt made to work this way.
I'm from the new generation, I'm not married, but even I instinctively want it to stay what it is now. I accept gays, but I do not accept something like this that will only (even if remotely, and not on a thousandfold scale) spread it, it is still not the natural behaviour to the human beings to give up the isntinct that made humanity survive for the last few thousands of years.
Slavery was a tradition for thousands of years, yet that tradition was broken because people finally took the time to realize how cruel it really is. How unconstitutional it really is. I will say the same for apartheid in South Africa. This is the new generation. We must learn acceptance.

Who said we would force homosexuality upon a child!
Lol, read all what I said again please. If you are raised, taught, influenced by gay parents, unconciously of it, you are still forced to accept it, and to develope another path of life, to change the instinctive selective system of a male/female.
Hm it looks like kray clarified this already. There's a difference between forcing and influencing ;D.

[Setsuna Ai]

How is homosexuality immoral? Maybe if you're a Christian it is, but not everyone is Christian are they? And though I am I believe in changing the old ways. Immorality is the violation of principles of conduct. And for this country, the principles are basically, "don't intrude in other's happiness and do not harm their well-being." They are not parasites you could easily extinguish.

[Kray]

why not try not to be a gay.
bcause i dont want to ruin your stories.

Ok.
I'll try to not be gay, when you try to be gay.

You let me know when you accomplish this, and I'll be happy to try and go straight.

(Sorry, short post)

[Setsuna Ai]

you hav'nt witnessed what true dispair they bring to young children.
you hav'nt seen the whole world yet.
you just act by your own feelings.
what... true despair? And you know what that is? Are you assuming gay couples who raise children are guaranteed a miserable life? That's not true. Ok sure maybe right now having two dads or two moms isn't what kids in school might like to see, but that's the point I was trying to get across earlier. Eradicate ignorance and you will have your perfect world.

[Setsuna Ai]

The majority? Show me a statistic now and cite it please. That sort of prediction is something everyone assumes. And not everyone here acts by their own feelings as you say. Right now it seems like you're the only one who's doing so.

[Kray]

what be a gay?
that won't happen if you have a strong will in life.
i think your just a big mistake that you don't want to be cured.
forget your past and be a real man today.

You think I'm a big mistake, and that I don't want to be cured.

You're right. I don't want to be cured. There is no cure for being gay. You wanna know why? Because it's not a freakin' disease.

Be a real man? You wouldn't know a real man if they smacked you in the face. A real man is the kind of person that stands up for what he believes in, he gives the shirt off his back to people in need, he puts others before himself, and he gives the utmost respect to those that deserve it. That is exactly how I am.

You wanna think I'm a mistake, go right ahead.
I'll never meet you IRL, so what you say has to real effect on me.

So go ahead and keep throwing insults.
I'll just report you after a while.

[Kray]

its a mental disease.
in our current level of science.
they hav'nt found how to cure gays yet.
but there is a lot of research that's going.


Wrong. It's in the chromosomes. It's not a mental illness.
That's like saying being Black is an illness as well.

[Kray]

Nothing I have said has been a story. It's all been true, and fact.

And I don't know where you come from, but 'round here, there's none of this stuff on TV.

I'm fed up here.
We'll both just argue until we die.

[Artemis]

Heard about your uh... recent posts here Yushin.
Your growing infamy must fuel your 'mainly' straightness.
Am I right?

Nevertheless, just to make it clear. I totally oppose your opinions on gay marriage and homosexuality in general.

You're the type we call:
homophobic

And I certainly love your "real men" comment. That oozes with compassion and understanding. Oops, I lied.

Mental disease? Isn't that in the same category as autism, schizophrenia and bi-polar? You sure having a different preference from the majority is a mental disease?

Hang on, is it really a majority? Remember, 50% of the human race will have some form of tendency for the gender. Looks like your equal, Yushin.

The fact is, you're scared of homosexuals, and hence you feel strong feelings against them. Why are you scared? Maybe because their different?

I just hope you don't switch to racial intolerance too, otherwise you'll make a lot more enemies than 50% of the human race.

A lot more.
Just to add in, my preferences are heterosexual, just like you. But unlike you, I accept homosexuals for who they are: homosexuals.

[Seff vi Britannia]

Yushin, two things;

1. You're pissing people off. Big time. Not only are your views not backed, you combine them with apalling grammar to create concuctions of rubbish, namely, anything you type.

2. Your views are bordering on predujice. (in fact, they ARE predujiced.) I'm just curios as to if you realise you can be aressted and tried in a court of law for that. And it carries a jail sentence.

when you say "your clan" are you talking about your family, or.. another kind of clan? judging from your views, i can't be too sure. =/

While this may be a debate thread, you are directing your insults AT a member. Which isn't allowed on the forum, debate or not. It's called a personal attack. What right do you have to say Kray disgraces men? At the moment, you're the only one doing the disgracing.

I suggest you cut down on your somewhat extremist views. =/

As for me?

I guess gay marriage should be allowed. I've never had much to do with them, you don't see many genuine "gay" people at my age, despite the teasing that goes on in school. People have a right to happiness, freedom from persecution, and a family. Those last two are human rights under the Geneva convention, incidentely. And nowhere in that document does it say, even in fine print, that homosexuals do not get human rights.

[diamondedge]

its a mental disease.


You are insane. Being gay is not illness. Does it transfer to other people? It's like curing an addition to basketball, for the love of god. It's all mental,. isn't it? Comments like that are disgrace for this forum.

Why is being gay such a bad thing? Are you aware that homosexuality exists for thousands of years and was actually considered the only true form of love between two people, and now you go and declare it illness???

LOVE.KNOWS.NO.GENDER. Where was it EVER stated that two can't attract or love themselves if they're not of the opposite sex?

It's something you are BORN with. just like transvestites, nature PLAYS with them. have you ever heard of the chromosome mixing that causes one that is supposedly male act like a female? It's like a tamed beast. Although you control it, the true nature still remains deep inside. Its not curing. Its just pushing it aside. You can't cure what is a part of you, it' like erasing part of yourself, your personality.

Once you make a statement like this "being gay is mental illness" you are automatically discriminating gay people. THEY.ARE.PEOPLE. who want to love and be loved. Isn't love the same, regardless of gender' Where is it stated that two have feelings and want to commit to each other just as male and female? Being gay isn't JUST about sexuality now is it?

Do I support gay marriage?

I think it takes amazing charisma and courage to even stand up and admit you are gay. Yet alone fight for the rights, being discriminated like they're not people. I have a LOT of gay friends. In todays society everyone looks at them like they're spreading a death disease... I don't see the slightest problem about gay getting married. marriage is supposed to be commitment of two people who love each other and spend the rest of their lives by each other's side.

But then again, you don't need paper for that. Officially, I do support gay people because i have helped a lot of them by standing by their side and telling they should fight for that they want. But I don't see that gay marriage is really a problem. Are gays expecting that society is gonna accept them by approving the marriage' Sweet dreams, this is life.

Again, if two love each other, marriage is meaningless, regardless of gender. ^^

Thumbs up to you Kray! ;)

[diamondedge]

yes maybe if i live in a country that accepts gay.
you can say that.
but thats diffrent in our country.
ok its my mistake to call it disease.
but it is still an abnormality.
being gay is abnormal.
sorry im not american so my english is not perfect.

1.) I live in a country where politicians are discussing if Teletubbies are gay for being dressed pink and wearing a red purse, and if that influences the clindren.

2.) I am far from American myself and English is my fourth language, so I wouldn't use that as an excuse. ^^

3.) For the last time, stop acting homophobic. Being gay is ONLY human, and not abnormal.

[shaberry]

if you'll see thru it. you know what im telling is true.
ofcourse i dont expect that a single person wud agreee with me.
its not that im an anti-gay.
im just saying that mankind shud not have a gay.
so there wub be no disgrace among the men.

im actually thinking of stopping my posts here.
bcause i know and i've already seen thru it.
gay marriage is abominable.
man x man. what a disgrace.

if there is a female participant here.
who's a pro-gay and if you just want to help your friend stop venting on me.
im not directly hitting a person. im talking about the whole of it.
broadly speak, generally etc... etc..

if your a pro-gay or you just want to support you friend.
now thats not logical to discuss.

so i suggest that REAL men should stop posting here.
and also females. (but womens are too willing)

let the gay blog there existence here. and anything they want to debate.
so im telling all the men to stop posting here so that they will not be affected with the gays disgraceful thoughts.

----------------------
i am just posting here. thot its really rude but its a major fact and its the truth also.
no need to vent on me. also sorry that i dont read your stories bcause that's not logical.

if you want to vent on me.
i dont want to hear it from a pro-gay.

gay marriage wud not exist if there is no gay.
if only i have the power like god.
i'd eliminate all the gays existence in the world.
and turn them into real MEN!

Yushin, you do realize that a gay relationship can be man/man or woman/woman right? It's not just limited to males. And then you say " its not that im an anti-gay. im just saying that mankind shud not have a gay.so there wub be no disgrace among the men." How exactly is that NOT anti-gay? You just contradicted yourself. And exactly what is "a disgrace" about being homosexual? So far, from what I've read from your posts, it seems like all you're doing is trying to prove a point to something that doesn't even have any back-up. And can you please explain what a "real man" is, in your terms? Oh, and one more thing, what exactly is "you hav'nt witnessed what true dispair they bring to young children"? It seems to me like you're just generalizing an experience that you had with a homosexual perhaps? How exactly does homosexuality bring "true dispair" to young children? What is it exactly, that's so wrong about homosexual relationships? I'd like to know the basis of why you think homosexual relationships are such "a disgrace." Could you please enlighten us, and prove to us your credibility on your stand on this topic?

[Z_Blitz]

This is a debate thread. What you think of gay marriages is completely up to you, however you are NOT ALLOWED under ANY circumstance to offend members of this forum, be it for their orientation, beliefs, religions... etc.

Yushin. You earned yourself a 35% warning increase. If I come across similar behaviour the consequences will be dire.

[Artemis]

Increase? Nice word.

If you were talking about the rabbit problem in Australia.
fortunately, they're not the same thing.

This is my final say, mainly because I think I've supported my point enough now. That and I think overkilling in a debate is a bit weird.

I think and with many other people, that love is love and that should be how we consider the factor. Thinking about how 'abnormal' they are, or how they're not 'following' the forces of nature really isn't the point here.

If humans followed the 'forces of nature' we probably be still eating raw meat and hunting in packs. We're different. It doesn't matter whether you believe God made us different, or anything. We're different, and one of the different ways is that we feel love.

Are we animals that mate and repopulate mainly because we need to as an instinct? No, not really. In fact, we repopulate mainly because each of us dream of having a nice boy or girl who will be good and get a good job and take care of us when we're older. Is that the force of nature telling us that's the reason we have children?

Forgive me for going a bit off topic. The fact is, being homosexual is not a disease, not matter how you put it. A disease is meant to harm you in a physical or mental state. Does being attracted to your own gender harm you? I beg to differ. Sometimes it may give you a new perspective on life, and hence more creativity in some areas.

Being gay is neither a pro or a con. It's just like if you decide to be a home owner, or renter. It is a choice, a choice that everyone should be allowed to make for themselves.

[Kray]

how dare you say its chromosome.
our whole clan would have killed you right now.
you really disgrace men.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't BELIEVE I didn't see this yesterday!

SETHASETHASTGB.
I'm done wasting my breath.

"Once you go gay, you'll never find happiness in life"
I'll tell you what, I'm as happy as a clam right now.
And am going to stay that way. :Domo

So, nyah.

(Done being with the off-topic-ish-ness.)

[Artemis]

Just to final it off,
I think I can say on behalf of the people that contributed in that tiny spat before.

I (and possibly we) apologize for any offensivenesses I (we)'ve caused in this thread. I formally take back anything that my have been interpreted as imposing on Yushin's opinion about gay marriages.

Done being formal,
Scorch.

[Nood]

Kray: So if parents influence the child, then gay parents will influence it that way, but gayness isn't something that should spread, it happens if it happens and thats it, an unnatural behaviour might occur in anyone, but it can be "forced" ("""""") out if someone is influenced by it since the very beginning of hes/her life. Don't take this as gay people force it in like food or something, its not something that can be avoided when raising the kid, but unconsciously the kid cant do anything about it.

Senbon Zakura:
I think you might not noticed but we agree on the first point ;)

I don't know how can we compare marriage and slavery...but anyway, slavery is still present, you now get a pathetic amount of money for it to keep yourself living, and now you have to volunteer to be a slave, lots of people don't have a choice to get a good job, thats where they go to the "slavery". :)
The way it works changed, but its still the same, a few people make thousands work for basically nothing. (slaves were fed enough to live)
Same happened to marriage, but the base is still the same, and that doesnt include malexmale or femalexfemale marriage. (Thou, I would rather get off from comparing these two, it doesnt work well)

For the last part, I guess read what I wrote for Kray.

[WhyteDragon]

Senbon

What I meant in my post about civil unions was this;

If we made marriage a union that cant be divorced from, then the civil union would be the first step. Everyone could have the civil union straight or gay. But if a couple wanted to be married then they would have to go to counseling sessions to see fit for a final union/marriage. Civil unions would obtain the same benefits that a marriage does, but you would be able to break it off if it didnt work. With marriage being that till death do us part.

Thats what I think it should be... that being equal.

[Setsuna Ai]

Kray: So if parents influence the child, then gay parents will influence it that way, but gayness isn't something that should spread, it happens if it happens and thats it, an unnatural behaviour might occur in anyone, but it can be "forced" ("""""") out if someone is influenced by it since the very beginning of hes/her life. Don't take this as gay people force it in like food or something, its not something that can be avoided when raising the kid, but unconsciously the kid cant do anything about it.
Senbon Zakura:
I think you might not noticed but we agree on the first point ;)
I don't know how can we compare marriage and slavery...but anyway, slavery is still present, you now get a pathetic amount of money for it to keep yourself living, and now you have to volunteer to be a slave, lots of people don't have a choice to get a good job, thats where they go to the "slavery". :)
The way it works changed, but its still the same, a few people make thousands work for basically nothing. (slaves were fed enough to live)
Same happened to marriage, but the base is still the same, and that doesnt include malexmale or femalexfemale marriage. (Thou, I would rather get off from comparing these two, it doesnt work well)
For the last part, I guess read what I wrote for Kray.
I just chose slavery as an example because it basically came from the same thing, prejudice. So if you're saying slavery is still around, just different then can't marriage work the same way? It can still be around but just different? Btw the definition you used for slavery is a different one from what I used, which is basically owning a person's life and making them do very hard labor for nothing. Being voluntary is a difference because voluntary doesn't bind you to the "master".

Btw I don't understand how "gayness" can spread. I don't think just because I was raised by gay parents I'd be gay too. If that was the truth, then my brother wouldn't be gay seeing as how my parents are straight. Besides, allowing gay couples to get married is one debate and allowing them to adopt children is also another debate that could be discussed somewhere else.

@Whytedragon... I dont' understand how that's about allowing gay marriage. I remember our first discussion was about why Christianity prohibits this?

[Project #22329]

im not religious so.....
since the time earth began supporting life, no other species were homosexual, except men....so its not naturally normal to be gay....

sexuality can be changed using hypnosis....so people are not born with homosexuality....

there were much less homosexuality before it was "the moda" for designers and brought attention in the media.... eeek

i say no to gay marriage!

[Nood]

Yes the form changed, but its still basically the same thing, the master is now not one person but a cocnrete part of society.
And they own your life since if they dont give them work, they'll become homeless. (dying is harder in the current world)
Marriage isnt exactly the same thing as it was before.
What I was saying but you completly discarded, is that the base is still the same, its still about the same thing.

Next point, I dont think I need to repeat myself, it was probably my third post that got exaggarated again, if you want my answer, read my posts again.
And don't tell me adopting a child wouldnt be the next step, its bound together.

[WhyteDragon]

Senbon:

Marriage doesn't have to be held in church. Judges marry many couples. My comment is saying that if we make it that way instead of the way it is now..... Reconstructing the marriage/union process and making it legal (all 50 states) for gays to be publicly joined as well as straight.
The first part being a union that can be done much like the judge or court and if you are part of that particular religion your church. (union equaling a marriage in this way)
I know that most religions will not recon form themselves that drastically to change with new way of thinking. Thou they have done in the past.

I'm not religious to any standing religion so it is hard for me to bat that ball. I have been to many different churches of different religions as well, but I still don't see how they can look down on people that are gay. When the bible talks about loving all and forgiveness.

[Juujika]

I dont see a problem with gay marriage, let them marry and adobt kids if they want. In history most of human beings were bi sexual and would sleep with women or men.

As for churches not accepting gay marriages they need to pull their heads out there asses and realize that even in the church homosexual acts go on, theres nothing abnormal about it. Sex and love are all about preference who are we to control someone elses desire and say its less and not fit enough to be accepted by churches or governments.

homo sexual lovers should be allowed to marry and set their love in stone like there parents or friends or whoever did. The government shouldnt have the power to refuse someones desire to love in the fashion they want to and have all the benfits.

[Loko Moto]

No offenese but I do not support gay marrige. I do not hate gay people but I do not support gay marrige for this reason. It's against the laws of the universe ( or something like that ). A man and a man or a woman and a woman can not have a child of their own ( with each other ). Therefore in my perspective it's agaisnt the laws life.

[roostergirl]

No offenese but I do not support gay marrige. I do not hate gay people but I do not support gay marrige for this reason. It's against the laws of the universe ( or something like that ). A man and a man or a woman and a woman can not have a child of their own ( with each other ). Therefore in my perspective it's agaisnt the laws life.

Loko Moto ... The laws of the universe as you would call it can also be wrong. Yes, gays can't reproduce but can you think for a moment ...there are also many heterosexual couples out there that cannot reproduce, so does that mean that they are also going against the laws of the universe just like the gays? That's not much of a reason there and I think that's just baloney! Whether or not they can reproduce they should still be allowed their civil rights and that is the right to marry whomever he or she wants.

Now in MY opinion, I think same sex marriage deserve as much rights as a heterosexual marriage. It's not because I'm morally agreeable to the idea or that I'm religious about it or anything. It's because I believe civil rights pertains to everyone ... regardless of your sex.

When gays and lesbians marry and the husband or the wife dies, their love one doesn't get the property and they don't get any benefits that a heterosexual marriage has. That's just not right in my eyes ... if two people invested in a property together and when one of them die, the property should go to the other one, not some long lost relatives who hates your behind! Sadly, that's what usually happens unless we legalized the marriage and give them the same treatment we give heterosexual marriages.

On a lighter note, I believe, if we legalized gay marriage then our divorce rate would plummet down. Isn't that a good thing ... I mean, marriage is definitely NOT a sacred institution no more to the heterosexual (whoever still believes that needs to go to counseling or just look at the millions of divorcees out there) so might as well give the same sex marriage a try. I'm thinking they might actually last longer. If you look at all the same sex marriage that has been happening over the years, most of them have been together for more than 5 years+ so that's definitely more of a commitment than say a quickie las vegas marriage that ended in divorce ... so there!!!

To the people who says that they're fine with gay marriage as long as it doesn't affect them ... wtf? :sad ... you don't care about anything as long as it doesn't affect you, huh? ... cheh ...

By the way, I'm not a lez and I'm currently single! :redbiggri

[meowingcatx]

I support gay marriage. It MAY be against Christian beliefs, but so are a lot of other things, and I don't see Christians teaching their kids to shun stealers as dirty people... .... that kind of supported my point...
Anyway, another point, if being attracted to another person of the same sex is a mental condition, they shouldn't be punished and be stripped of their right to marry because of a mental condition. It doesn't hurt others physically and if parents think it's something their kids shouldn't be exposed to because it might spawn thoughts of gay relationships, their choice of becoming gay is just as much of a choice as their career...

mleh:whatevah:

[silverwolf801]

what would you say if I said that I was a hypocrite. You see I have no problem with women getting married because too me that is just like a man and woman getting married but if two men were to get married then I would have a problem with it. Just like if my daughter was to become a lesbian I would be totally cool with it( I don't have a children) but if my son was gay then we would have alot of problems

[Vampyrelord]

what would you say if I said that I was a hypocrite. You see I have no problem with women getting married because too me that is just like a man and woman getting married but if two men were to get married then I would have a problem with it. Just like if my daughter was to become a lesbian I would be totally cool with it( I don't have a children) but if my son was gay then we would have alot of problems

Uh, why?

Where's the logic in that?

Please, explain. A double standard like that must at least be properly explained.

[roostergirl]

Uh, why?
Where's the logic in that?
Please, explain. A double standard like that must at least be properly explained.


I'm not sure about this but I think he's like every guy out there who gets turned on by the girl on girl action whereas to see two guys doing IT or get married, well they'd think it's weird and disgusting ...... correct me if I'm wrong! :whatevah:

[Aristocrat]

i think they should allow it. its not fair to them they can do what they want they noe some people will not approve of it but they still deserve to be happy its none of other people's business they do not realise there hurting them just leave them be. they might be a bit different to others but its really wrong not everyone is the same =/

[Neko Ruki]

I suport it because tey r people to and they have every obligation as any person so they showld have every privileje and there r also many orfins that need nice responsable parents and would be happy to have a maried couple gay or not

[deto]

who are we to judge them?

if i read those posts full of hate i can't but despise the people that wrote such stuff in a way i cannot verbally express.

if it makes gay and lesbian couples happy, then they shall get married. would it bother anyone really? i think not.

[II Xion II]

Wrong. It's in the chromosomes. It's not a mental illness.
That's like saying being Black is an illness as well.

Uhm. WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From a previous post on the genetic connection to homosexuality from various sources:

"The conclusion, that sexual attraction, whether same-sex or opposite-sex oriented, operates similarly on a biological level, does not mean that there is necessarily a biological cause for homosexuality."

"It's important to stress what I didn't find. I did not prove that homosexuality was genetic, or find a genetic cause for being gay. I didn't show that gay men are born that way, the most common mistake people make in interpreting my work. Nor did I locate a gay center in the brain. INAH-3 is less likely to be the sole gay nucleus of the brain than a part of a chain of nuclei engaged in men and women's sexual behavior...Since I looked at adult brains we don't know if the differences I found were there at birth, or if they appeared later."

– Simon LeVay, Discover, March 1994

"LeVay's work has come under criticism for not taking into account the fact that all of the brains of homosexual men he studied were from homosexual men who had died of AIDS, which was not equally true of the heterosexuals whose brains he studied. However, when comparisons were made of the INAH-3 measurements in only the brains of those in each group who died from complications due to AIDS (albeit a small sample), similar size differences were found. It should also be noted that, currently, no evidence has been found to suggest that HIV or the effects of AIDS would result in changes in INAH-3 size. To date, no analogous result has been found in women's brains."

"In a brief put forth by the Council for Responsible Genetics, they review studies done so far and conclude that the evidence that sexual orientation is fixed at birth, is inconclusive. On the discourse over sexual orientation: "Noticeably missing from this debate is the notion, championed by Kinsey, that human sexual expression is as variable among people as many other complex traits. Yet just like intelligence, sexuality is a complex human feature that modern science is attempting to explain with genetics... Rather than determining that this results from purely biological processes, a trait evolves from developmental processes that include both biological and social elements. In addition, scientists rarely take into consideration sexual preferences that are not described by the two poles heterosexual and homosexual, 'in hopes of maximizing the chance that they will find something of interest.'"

I will be EXTREMELY fair though and point out that recent studies indicate that there MIGHT be a genetic predisposition to it in some, but that even in twins when one is homosexual, the chance of the other being so is about 20%. That is not nearly as hardwired as you put it. And also, the majority agree that the primary influence is environment or circumstances outside of genetics. (see HERE (http://www.narth.com/docs/nothardwired.html) for info)

Comparing race to sexual orientation is a little immature in my opinion for that very reason.

[darkangel32]

i totaly suport gay marriage bequise my own situation, before u know my reason u must know my storry.

Hello. I'm Darkangel
My life
i life in this wonderfull world as a new born girl.
7 years ago i wass still a man, after many hard years of strugel i became a female in 2001.
my life before 2001 wass a living hell, bequise i wass still a man, and i didnt like it at all.
my home is in holland in a place cald amsterdam but before i lifed there, i also have lived in the US and japan.
now i am finaly a female and i can finaly love the body where i am in, at the moment i am 24 i have brown long hair i use to have a glasse but now i use contact.
people tell me many times that i am weard not bequise of the sex chance but more bequise i love to do wild things.

so thats my storry, and bequise i am female know on the inside but on my pasport still stands i am male, i am still working on it to chance that also but its dificult.
so i hope it will be chancht before i go marriage or it will be a gay marriage.
but the happy thing is that i live in holland where gay marriage is suported.

[Kray]

Comparing race to sexual orientation is a little immature in my opinion for that very reason.

You wanna talk immature?


Uhm. WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THAT'S immature.


I'm not about to sit here and get flamed to no end, AGAIN.
So I'm just going to say, that you'll never know, unless you're gay. It's just something that you wont understand. No one will, unless they were gay.
Just like anything else, you never know what it's like until it effects your life.

[darkangel32]

You wanna talk immature?




THAT'S immature.


I'm not about to sit here and get flamed to no end, AGAIN.
So I'm just going to say, that you'll never know, unless you're gay. It's just something that you wont understand. No one will, unless they were gay.
Just like anything else, you never know what it's like until it effects your life.

totaly true i know how it feel and how it is, but what u say is not totaly true i have friends and they are not gay and they understand me totaly, how i feel and what i like.

[Drunkenvalley]

what would you say if I said that I was a hypocrite. You see I have no problem with women getting married because too me that is just like a man and woman getting married but if two men were to get married then I would have a problem with it. Just like if my daughter was to become a lesbian I would be totally cool with it( I don't have a children) but if my son was gay then we would have alot of problems
It's simply being mildly homophobic.

It's nothing dangerous. Just that lesbians and gays (I'll be categorizing them like that, sorry) will be treated differently according to the person's own gender.

It's often harder to accept two of the same sex being together (whatever that might involve) if you're of the same sex.

Now, more back to the subject, I quite do believe that gay relationships are to be allowed. Religion is only a hindrance in this world, now, if I may be so frank. It rarely does much good for those who have a good life, rather it does the opposite.

And right now, only one thing is in the way for relationships between two people of the same gender, frankly.

The human mind.

Many gays or lesbians will have a harder time being accepted in society, as far as I see it, simply because they pretty often simply disgust others of the same gender.

[II Xion II]

You wanna talk immature?




THAT'S immature.


Maybe you should let your emotions sit this one out.

I believe you were the one who stated it matter-of-factly that it was definitely hereditary and that everyone else was wrong. All without a shred of evidence except how you "feel."

And I stand by saying that comparing someone who is black to someone who is gay, IS immature. That is not a flame, but is based on the evidence I just brought up. But let's ignore the evidence for your sake!

I'm not about to sit here and get flamed to no end, AGAIN.

Saying "Uhm, wrong!!!" is not flaming! You said it to Yushin (who was flaming) posts ago.

And my "Uhm, wrong!!!" has a lot more validity than yours since yours is based on NO evidence whatsoever, while mine backs it up and at least examines the other side of the issue.

I'm just going to say, that you'll never know, unless you're gay. It's just something that you wont understand. No one will, unless they were gay.
Just like anything else, you never know what it's like until it effects your life.

-_-

I have no problem with people choosing what they do or how they live their life, homosexuals included. But seriously, can you find evidence outside of your feelings because the mainstream evidence just does not corroborate your opinion?

[Kray]

*Sigh* Here we go.

I believe you were the one who stated it matter-of-factly that it was definitely hereditary and that everyone else was wrong. All without a shred of evidence except how you "feel."

And I stand by saying that comparing someone who is black to someone who is gay, IS immature. That is not a flame, but is based on the evidence I just brought up. But let's ignore the evidence for your sake!

No, I never said that I was the only one right and everyone else and their mother was wrong. Never, ever and I like that. None of this is "what I feel". It's all of what I know. I didn't say that "gay" is passed down to you. Why does that matter anyway it's not even on topic.

Well, my apologies for using a bad analgy, why don't you cry about it?

Saying "Uhm, wrong!!!" is not flaming! You said it to Yushin (who was flaming) posts ago.

And my "Uhm, wrong!!!" has a lot more validity than yours since yours is based on NO evidence whatsoever, while mine backs it up and at least examines the other side of the issue.

I NEVER said that your "Uhm, wrong!!!" was flaming. Read that again.
And how does yours have evidence?
I'd like to see that.

-_-

I have no problem with people choosing what they do or how they live their life, homosexuals included. But seriously, can you find evidence outside of your feelings because the mainstream evidence just does not corroborate your opinion?

Again with this "feelings" crap. I simply stated a fact. You don't know what it's like. You don't know what it's like to be discriminated against for this topic. I'm not going "Wah, everyone hates me, cry me a river!" with any sort of feelings.

[II Xion II]

And how does yours have evidence?
I'd like to see that.

A few posts up, I posted quotes from researchers (you know...scientists and statisticians).

And I even provided a link to site that does all sorts of research on the subject.

Again with this "feelings" crap. I simply stated a fact. You don't know what it's like. You don't know what it's like to be discriminated against for this topic. I'm not going "Wah, everyone hates me, cry me a river!" with any sort of feelings.

First of all, this has nothing to do with discrimination or whatnot. I am simply making an argument to the whole hereditary basis for homosexuality. Nothing more and nothing less.

In regards to gay marriage issue, I have absolutely no problem with people doing what they see fit, choosing their own lives with there own freedom of choice.

I do not approve at all of homosexuality for many reasons, but I do not care what they do since it is their choice whether they want to get married or whatnot. I am entitled to my opinion, as much as you are to yours.

[Dr. Walker]

I don't really like to get into too much debate about crap like this, but I suppose everyone needs to voice their own opinions at times. :<

Things like gay marriage are way too connected to morality and religion, but thats really only based on one's own religion and sense of morality and issues.

:< If a Queer Bob wants to marry Faggot John, then thats really up to them. Their own sense of morality and value allows them to be joined in holy union, and their belief in God, and belief that God loves them for whoever they are, they believe what they are doing is the right thing to do, and also the right thing for the sake of their happiness.

Concerning the people on the outside, and all those "Converter" cunts, people on the outside are simply way too opinionated and judging. We're always dismissing them, telling them whats right and whats wrong, and telling them its against God and morality. Well see, here's the thing: who are we to judge them? Isn't that sort of thing in God's hands? Since when did we become Gods?

And I mean...we keep telling them its wrong, and they wont be happy. Well, see, who are we to be telling someone how they should be happy, and how they should be saved? We already have enough trouble ourselves as it is trying to be happy, and saving our own asses from eternal hellfire of doom. Should morality and religion be justified on a sense based on envy and jealously? Way I see it, we're jealous of them because they're happy, and different from us.

Last I checked, aren't Envy and Jealousy part of the Deadly Seven Sins club? With Jealous being the most deadly one?

:<

[darkangel32]

i dont get it why we say its not normal its against religion. but if u watch history close u know that it wass normal in the roman age, in greek it wass also a normal thing so why not in this futhere then.

[II Xion II]

i dont get it why we say its not normal its against religion. but if u watch history close u know that it wass normal in the roman age, in greek it wass also a normal thing so why not in this futhere then.

Maybe because most of the major religions in the world speak against it (if not all)!

That could be a reason for starters.

I do not know what Greek orgies have to do with "religion," but whatever I guess.

[Drunkenvalley]

In greece, in the very old times, back when they had their own little olympics and all that, wives were for having children, other guys for sex.
However, it is true that this world is much too discriminative against those who are different. The only reason they are even able to do so without getting busted is that the human rights say...
Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
Source: [Link (http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html)]

See how it doesn't even mention sexuality? The lack of this is seen in the other rights as well.

[II Xion II]

Is this thread about homosexuality in general or gay marriage?

Because I just don't know anymore.

I am against homosexuality, but support a homosexual's right to choose how they live their life (and hence marry someone if they want to).

Personally, it is not my decision to make, it is theirs. All people are entitled to their rights as human beings. Especially their right to freedom of choice.

[darkangel32]

Is this thread about homosexuality in general or gay marriage?

Because I just don't know anymore.

I am against homosexuality, but support a homosexual's right to choose how they live their life (and hence marry someone if they want to).

Personally, it is not my decision to make, it is theirs. All people are entitled to their rights as human beings. Especially their right to freedom of choice.

first part i dont agree whit u but thats your opion second part i totaly agree whit u

[Dr. Walker]

Is this thread about homosexuality in general or gay marriage?

Because I just don't know anymore.

I am against homosexuality, but support a homosexual's right to choose how they live their life (and hence marry someone if they want to).

Personally, it is not my decision to make, it is theirs. All people are entitled to their rights as human beings. Especially their right to freedom of choice.

Then why are we impeding on their rights?

Why are we trying to prevent them from making that choice? :eek13:

[II Xion II]

Then why are we impeding on their rights?
Why are we trying to prevent them from making that choice? :eek13:

I honestly don't know why people impede on their rights. I am guessing that some people just hate homosexuality so much that they would do anything in their power to impede homosexual's rights.

Some people might feel it is their "duty" or feel as they just might hate it.

And what choice are you specifically referring to?

The choice to marry or the choice to be homosexual or whatnot?

[Dr. Walker]

I honestly don't know why people impede on their rights. I am guessing that some people just hate homosexuality so much that they would do anything in their power to impede homosexual's rights.
Some people might feel it is their "duty" or feel as they just might hate it.
And what choice are you specifically referring to?
The choice to marry or the choice to be homosexual or whatnot?

Both? lmao

Way I see things right now, is that they are heading in a direction much like the movie Idiocracy.

[Sliferhaven]

To me, anti-homosexuality is like racism. All the kids I know say the word gay instead of stupid. The same kids say the racist slur for african-americans 24/7. Let's face it, today's adolescents (aside from here) just aren't able to adapt to new lifestyles that some people choose.

I really don't understand why some people are all pissed off about gay marriage, it's not necessary to make a law about it. As long as they don't make themselves look bad in the eyes of media and choice leaders, I'm fine.

[II Xion II]

To me, anti-homosexuality is like racism. All the kids I know say the word gay instead of stupid. The same kids say the racist slur for african-americans 24/7. Let's face it, today's adolescents (aside from here) just aren't able to adapt to new lifestyles that some people choose.

What do you mean side from here? People here do it too, they usually get banned pretty quickly though.

As for the whole "gay" as a swear word, I think it has pervaded our culture (American) to such an extent that it will be almost impossible to erase. I know where it cam from, but I do think people use it in a way that has escaped its original intentions. As for racist slurs, those aren't too common around where I am, except for a very small minority of people I know.

I don't agree with your statement that "anti-homosexuality = racism" though for quite a few reasons. Mainly, because the fact that the evidence (at least for the moment) points to homosexuality as much more environment-related than genetics related, while race CANNOT be changed at all and is 100% determined from birth.

It's also a fact that most major religions in the world do not promote homosexuality. Therefore when you equate anti-homosexuality with racism, you are promoting people who are religious (not just Christian either) with racism.

I really don't understand why some people are all pissed off about gay marriage, it's not necessary to make a law about it. As long as they don't make themselves look bad in the eyes of media and choice leaders, I'm fine.

Let them do what they want.

I see this is your choice for a first post though, welcome to CB!

Just hope your not an alias like the guy in the other thread was. :winking56

[Drunkenvalley]

@"II Xion II"
You're actually wrong. Skin color can change as well, and all. Just look at Michael Jackson for instance.

In any case, I just have to ask. What do you mean you do not support homosexuality?

[darkangel32]

@ ''drunkenvally''
not all people like to see or hear it in this world, and i acept that, all people can have there own opion. that is what he mean, and i quote from him Let them do what they want..

[II Xion II]

@"II Xion II"
You're actually wrong. Skin color can change as well, and all. Just look at Michael Jackson for instance.
In any case, I just have to ask. What do you mean you do not support homosexuality?

Okay, I am sorry, but that is ridiculous. You know very well what I mean.

Skin color is determined at birth and ONLY extreme cosmetic work or diseases can change that.

And you ask me what I mean by me "not supporting homosexuality," I mean I do not agree with it...AT ALL.

I find it is immoral and is an abomination against nature frankly speaking. I am NOT a Christian, strictly speaking, but my beliefs are religious in nature. I do not base my beliefs on pure "tradition" or "conservative values" or anything of that sort, I base it on longstanding occultist principles which I have come to understand and study in depth with relation to Kabbalah.

That's what I mean.

I am not homophobic, nor do I hate homosexuals at all. Everyone is human and everyone has the right to live the way they choose. People have freedom of choice and can find their own way through life.

[Pyramus]

Im totaly for gay marrage! For one thing, my lezbian aunt is getting married next year! Just becuase a man loves a man, or a woman loves a woman, dosnt meen that they cant get married and proffess(Spelling?) their love to the world! Im straight by the way, so I plan to get married to a woman!

[darkangel32]

i thought that england still wass against gay and lesbian marriage, or did they finaly chance the law.

[Neko Ruki]

I'm hire in Mexico and there is a president that wants gay marriage but every 1 hates him because he legalised abortion (yea that is true)

[darkangel32]

oke and mexico can do that hehehehe

[Drunkenvalley]

I'm hire in Mexico and there is a president that wants gay marriage but every 1 hates him because he legalised abortion (yea that is true)

Sorry if this offends you, but...

What the hell? What's wrong with abortion? And don't come to me with this "It's taking life" crap. Abortion is an attempt to delay the responsibility of being a mother, because the mother herself realizes that she cannot take care of a child properly.

What the hell's wrong with a woman deciding she can't handle a child properly? Should we actually let that woman have a child yet in the first place, then?
Should we /force/ her to experience a pain like few or even have her risk her life giving birth? (It's not like birth kills so many women, I believe, but it happens, still..)

In any case, this is about gay marriage, so I won't go further on that. Sorry for going off-topic. I'll either make a new post after this when I get back if there's been replies, or just edit this one at the time.

[EndlessSky]

I dont agree with Gay marriage, because that goes against all what marriage is and is based on. I could see wanting to be a legal couple or group, but the act of marriage is not for gays.

This is the defintion of marriage right here

the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.

I would actually even compromise if they made hetero and homo marriage two SEPERATE things, because it is not the same thing, and to say it is, is to mock marriage, the religious connonations and other beliefs.

[darkangel32]

totaly not true, for me its the same, and i am happy that that also in in holland.
there are even gay marriage in church so there is nothing rong whit it.

[Nesquik]

I dont agree with Gay marriage, because that goes against all what marriage is and is based on. I could see wanting to be a legal couple or group, but the act of marriage is not for gays.
This is the defintion of marriage right here
the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.
I would actually even compromise if they made hetero and homo marriage two SEPERATE things, because it is not the same thing, and to say it is, is to mock marriage, the religious connonations and other beliefs.
making separate things would be ok, but it implies to give another right less to gay people, what if they didn't wanna be gay??
Everyone deserves a fair judgment, gay people only wanna be "normal" and create a normal family, and no one let's them...

[Juujika]

I dont agree with Gay marriage, because that goes against all what marriage is and is based on. I could see wanting to be a legal couple or group, but the act of marriage is not for gays.
This is the defintion of marriage right here
the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.
I would actually even compromise if they made hetero and homo marriage two SEPERATE things, because it is not the same thing, and to say it is, is to mock marriage, the religious connonations and other beliefs.


Um gay marriage and regular marriage is the same in the eyes of god. If you look in past history there has been men, women who were with homosexual relationships before even the whole cathlic church was formed.

Just because we live in a time period where homosexuality is looked down apon.. its not a new thing, Homosexuality was even considered more respectable then heterosexuality at one point in time depending on the culture. Romans, japanese, etc they all didnt frown apon homosexuality.

The cathlic church has people they shout the word of god then sleep with young boys because they dont want to break some silly vow and sleep with a woman. But thats more rape.

Point is, homosexuality is pre most churches and the older churches found it to be respectable. To force homosexuals to feel they have less rights then an hetero couple is bull shit on an overly anal church. They really need to just let it go and start accepting homosexual weddings.

[Striker-tai]

yes, and Rome fell, and Japan is now a what's the word I'm looking for here? I'll use Surrogate since I can't think of anything else. yes homosexuality has been around for a long time, but what is the benifit of it. I mean unless you plan to NOT have offspring it's entierly counter productive to the survivability of the species, and the more it's pushed to become acceptable the more it makes it seem heterosexuals seem "evil". I don't really want to get drawn into this but it dosen't matter since I started to type this anyways.

There is such a thing as civil unions most gay people though don't really care about the benifits they get, they just want the word marrige to be able to apply to them to. Hey guess what I don't need to know what your sexual orientation is this whole debate is stupid to begin with. These whole gay pride parade is pointless. Why oh why do I need your sexual orientation shoved in front of me for all to see so I may one day tolerate the fact that you think you've been mistreated?

Please tell me when in the last 50 years a gay person has been truly mistreated because they were open about it?

in conclusion please keep your sexual orientation where it belongs in the bedroom and don't throw it in my face to try and make me accept you, because I don't work that way.

[Kray]

yes, and Rome fell, and Japan is now a what's the word I'm looking for here? I'll use Surrogate since I can't think of anything else. yes homosexuality has been around for a long time, but what is the benifit of it. I mean unless you plan to NOT have offspring it's entierly counter productive to the survivability of the species, and the more it's pushed to become acceptable the more it makes it seem heterosexuals seem "evil". I don't really want to get drawn into this but it dosen't matter since I started to type this anyways.
There is such a thing as civil unions most gay people though don't really care about the benifits they get, they just want the word marrige to be able to apply to them to. Hey guess what I don't need to know what your sexual orientation is this whole debate is stupid to begin with. These whole gay pride parade is pointless. Why oh why do I need your sexual orientation shoved in front of me for all to see so I may one day tolerate the fact that you think you've been mistreated?
Please tell me when in the last 50 years a gay person has been truly mistreated because they were open about it?
in conclusion please keep your sexual orientation where it belongs in the bedroom and don't throw it in my face to try and make me accept you, because I don't work that way.

I sense a lot of anger in this post - maybe too much.

I have just a few things to say to this post. Not much since I don't really want to get all worked up on this topic, again.

"Hey guess what I don't need to know what your sexual orientation is this whole debate is stupid to begin with. These whole gay pride parade is pointless. Why oh why do I need your sexual orientation shoved in front of me for all to see so I may one day tolerate the fact that you think you've been mistreated?"

First of all, Gay Pride isn't pointless. It's, well, PRIDE in who we are. If you can't take pride in yourself, who can? It's in the same boat as the Black History times. They took pride in who they were and went for what was right. Just because they wanted to be equal. Ok well, that's the same thing. Fighting for equality. To say something like that is basically saying "how can you take pride in who you are, that's pointless". And no one is saying to you "OH YOU MUST WATCH THE GAY PRIDE". Please, if you don't like it, don't watch it. It's that easy.

"Please tell me when in the last 50 years a gay person has been truly mistreated because they were open about it?"

Every day. Guarantee, it just doesn't get aired on the news. Why is that?
I'll tell you ...

"in conclusion please keep your sexual orientation where it belongs in the bedroom and don't throw it in my face to try and make me accept you, because I don't work that way."

Homophobia.

[darkangel32]

yes, and Rome fell, and Japan is now a what's the word I'm looking for here? I'll use Surrogate since I can't think of anything else. yes homosexuality has been around for a long time, but what is the benifit of it. I mean unless you plan to NOT have offspring it's entierly counter productive to the survivability of the species, and the more it's pushed to become acceptable the more it makes it seem heterosexuals seem "evil". I don't really want to get drawn into this but it dosen't matter since I started to type this anyways.
There is such a thing as civil unions most gay people though don't really care about the benifits they get, they just want the word marrige to be able to apply to them to. Hey guess what I don't need to know what your sexual orientation is this whole debate is stupid to begin with. These whole gay pride parade is pointless. Why oh why do I need your sexual orientation shoved in front of me for all to see so I may one day tolerate the fact that you think you've been mistreated?
Please tell me when in the last 50 years a gay person has been truly mistreated because they were open about it?
in conclusion please keep your sexual orientation where it belongs in the bedroom and don't throw it in my face to try and make me accept you, because I don't work that way.

then i can say we must forbid marraige bequise straight people say they are straight then.

u are proud to be straight, as the same we gay people are proud that we are gay or lesbian.

[EndlessSky]

Why is it demeening to seperate the two marriages? How is that not giving them rights, when giving their own special type of marriage just for them? If you truly see them as people and accept it why should it be demeening?

Also, I thought it was a choice to be gay like you people say , and not a diease, or mental state or whatever? Yet, you said they didnt have choice.


Of course homosexuality is nothing new, that doesn't mean we have to accept it now do we, or that it is a good thing? Racism isnt anything new either yet we dont accept that. Just because it was ok in other cultures doesn't mean its ok. The Aztecs sacarficed people in theres, so I guess that should be ok too.


And so far the only arguement I've heard about why its a okay thing to be gay is because their people too and they have the right, of course there people no one is saying otherwise but the pro-gays and gays themselves rofl.

[darkangel32]

but the pro-gays and gays themselves rofl.

what do u mean by pro-gays and gays, i dont understand what u mean by that.

[EndlessSky]

The people that are gay, and the people who support and accept this kind of behavior is what I mean.

[Kray]

He means... Pro-Gay: Someone who supports gays.

And as far as us saying it wasn't by choice, is our truth.
Some people believe that it is a choice, and some don't.

My stand is that it's not a choice.
If you think about it logically, why would someone choose this lifestyle? To be frowned upond every day of our existance (to date)?

I feel like being short right now, sorry. T_T.

[EndlessSky]

All I am saying is I don't support or accept the behavior doesn't mean I'm against the people or dont like them and what not. I'm not like omg the gays! I just think what they are doing is inapporiate.

Thats also my arguement, just why is it okay to be gay? And, if its a choice just why do they choose it?

For all I know, its an inbalance of hormones and should be looked at, I mean that is what makes us attracted to the opposite sex etc, in the physical sense atleast. So in all techinally if your body is working correctly you shouldn't be attracted to the same sex, sexually.

And everyone so far that trys to say this is not so, has yet to give an vaild reason or evidence otherwise.

So let me hear it, something with actual points and a arguement, not just because you say so.

[Kray]

Alright, I'll say some things. Sorry in advance if you get a little "wtf is he talking about" in the midst of all this - because I'm doing a million things right now.

Why is it okay to be gay?
Well, first off, counter that question - why isn't it okay to be gay? It's okay to be gay. Gay people are no different than straight people. We get the same jobs, we do the same social events, we grow up just like everyone else, among other things. We fall in love, just like everyone else. The only thing that makes us slightly different than other people, is that we just so happen to fall for the same gender. I'll tell you what, everyone that knows me IRL had no idea that I was gay until I told them. I act just the same as everyone else. I play sports, have a job, have a social life, am on teams in sports, just like anyone else does. So what's the big deal? I'm no different than you.

If it's a choice, why choose it?
Well, for me, it's not a choice - and this is me, for I can only speak for myself. I don't know why I'm gay, and I don't know how it happened. I didn't choose this life style. I wouldn't want to choose this lifestyle. People look down on me. I wouldn't be able to hold m