American Academics

[ramenkage]

The American k-12 education system is inferior to many foreign systems. The students are behind and the standards, if any are incredibly low. A high school dipolma is worth as much as toilet paper. i propose that we correct this by standardizing the system, raising the standards, and giving students rather than schools money, thus ending the public school system. Students schould be able to choose which schools they wish to attend and schools should be about to choose which students they want to admit.

[Koopsta Knicca]

Well I don't like school anyway but I go... and for the mostpart the standards of many schools are way different in class and eveything... the gov't needs to spend the same amout of money on each school so each student will have a chance to learn the same way as others and that will solve the behinde in standards prob. for the foremost.... most of that also depends on if the students are actually trying their best or not.. I like the way american system is for the k-12.... Well I guess i say that too becuase its my last yr anyway so it don't matter to me...

[Chase-Kun]

I personally think after 9th grade you learned everything the skool is gonna teach you,.. after that then its the same repeated crap being shoved down your thoat every year after,.. thats why im a drop out,.. i got my GED cause skool wasent for me,.. the education system sucks here in america,.. >.>.... i liked the german system better.

[narratorxx]

i agree that a large percentage of students in america are lacking in academics, but you have too much confidence in their character if you think giving them money rather than the schools would fix it...

if left up to the students, school wouldn't be school anymore...any good school will be filled up with the rich kids/smart kids, whose parents would press them to go on to college, the whole success pressure thing...all other schools would be more about socializing...the concept of education and school would be lost on them...

but i do agree that there should be standardization of the system, and a raising of standards...there shouldn't be social promotion, kids should be held back in grades if they don't deserve to go on...

teachers should be held to a stricter standard, some want to be the cool adults. i've had a few teachers in highschool that would just sit around--pretty much the entire day, and give tests throughout the semester randomly...no teaching, unless you actually came up to them with a question, and even then it's a gamble if they can answer your question or not...

first thing i would do is eliminate physical eduation in highschool, it's a waste of time *period*, if kids are worried about their health they should do it on their own time...also, college level courses, the general education requirements, should be offered in some highschools so the overachievers can get those creds over it and not have to spend thousands of dollars on asinine crap in college...like criticial thinking courses, the speech courses...

middle school should be up to 9th grade, then highschool 3, optional 4 if they want to get some college creds out of the way...it all should be intense, nothing laidback...

then also eliminate all school sports activities in highschool, there's no point to them, it just eats up funds; it' s a distraction, a general waste...sports activites like wrestling and football and the such should be left up to the city parks and recreation, or local clubs, they can set up teams outside of highschools if they really want to have sports competition--that way it might encourage better community bonds, or whatever...but academic extracurricular activies, the acadec teams, the speech teams, etc, the honor clubs--keep, divert some of the funds/resources from the eliminated sports programs there...i mean it's sad to see that the smart kids have to do carwashes and shit, while the jocks get it easy...

build more schools, reduce class sizes, give more and better incentives to becoming a teacher--those who major in becoming a teacher, and teach for at least 7-8 years (or maybe a nice round 10 years), get a free college education

and then let's face it, some people are born idiots, they won't ever understand concepts, their memory won't ever retain the basics, etc...and college is a pipe dream and a waste of money for them...that's why i think there should be an option to go to a vocational school or highschool, rather than everyone goes to highschool and then if you **** up you have to spend another 3 or so years going to community college or vocational school...

then have rewards for good students, there's a program at a nearby school district where they give video games for xbox, ps2, gc, etc; gift certificates to cafes, fastfood joints, blockbuster, etc,...and the list goes on, and they've seen an upward rise in scores and gpas...but then there's an added problem of promoting materialism, but it's worth it if kids get smarter, right?

in the end i'm not saying throw more money at schools, and definitely not saying to give them to the students or parents...but there should definitely be a reevaluation of the school system in america...start doing studies of countries with highest scores, what's the social and cultural differences between us and them, that let's them excel; the difference in teaching methods/ curriculums/ money spent on programs, etc...

**sorry for the long post ^_^;

[Chase-Kun]

O.o holy crap long post but i agree totaly...

[Destiny]

The American k-12 education system is inferior to many foreign systems. The students are behind and the standards, if any are incredibly low. A high school dipolma is worth as much as toilet paper. i propose that we correct this by standardizing the system, raising the standards, and giving students rather than schools money, thus ending the public school system. Students schould be able to choose which schools they wish to attend and schools should be about to choose which students they want to admit.


:/ not here it aint.......

[ramenkage]

:/ not here it aint.......
it is in kali
there is an "exit exam", but you take in soph year, given unlimited time, and only have to get 50% to past
so basically i can past by flipping a coin

teachers should be held to a stricter standard, some want to be the cool adults. i've had a few teachers in highschool that would just sit around--pretty much the entire day, and give tests throughout the semester randomly...no teaching, unless you actually came up to them with a question, and even then it's a gamble if they can answer your question or not...
especially the dam ap teachers, "heres your assignment, test in a week". we can seriously replace them with monkeys
if left up to the students, school wouldn't be school anymore...any good school will be filled up with the rich kids/smart kids, whose parents would press them to go on to college, the whole success pressure thing...all other schools would be more about socializing...the concept of education and school would be lost on them...
thats exactly what i want. but i also have confidence in the kids, many kids strive for success, those who dont dont deserve it. in addition, students still have to go to schools. its just that schools have to compete to get the best students. like how they do it in japan

first thing i would do is eliminate physical eduation in highschool, it's a waste of time *period*, if kids are worried about their health they should do it on their own time...also, college level courses, the general education requirements, should be offered in some highschools so the overachievers can get those creds over it and not have to spend thousands of dollars on asinine crap in college...like criticial thinking courses, the speech courses...i would take that a step further and make pe a club period. like tennis club or debate club, something a student can specialize in. in my schools clubs are a lunch time activity and not many people have time for that.

then also eliminate all school sports activities in highschool, there's no point to them, it just eats up funds; it' s a distraction, a general waste...sports activites like wrestling and football and the such should be left up to the city parks and recreation, or local clubs, they can set up teams outside of highschools if they really want to have sports competition--that way it might encourage better community bonds, or whatever...but academic extracurricular activies, the acadec teams, the speech teams, etc, the honor clubs--keep, divert some of the funds/resources from the eliminated sports programs there...i mean it's sad to see that the smart kids have to do carwashes and shit, while the jocks get it easy...
i actually disagree, athletics makes the students more appealing to universities and also most athletes with the exception of football players are scholar athletes and consist of the best and the brightest

and then let's face it, some people are born idiots, they won't ever understand concepts, their memory won't ever retain the basics, etc...and college is a pipe dream and a waste of money for them...that's why i think there should be an option to go to a vocational school or highschool, rather than everyone goes to highschool and then if you **** up you have to spend another 3 or so years going to community college or vocational school...rep for you! i completely agree, rather than waste time in college, they should gain skills through vocational schools. but that will most likely cause racial issues. dam race sensitive america

[narratorxx]

especially the dam ap teachers, "heres your assignment, test in a week". we can seriously replace them with monkeys
^^lol

thats exactly what i want. but i also have confidence in the kids, many kids strive for success, those who dont dont deserve it. in addition, students still have to go to schools. its just that schools have to compete to get the best students. like how they do it in japan
damn, now i'm in a dilemma...which do i lean towards, give students a chance whether they like it or not, or a more darwinistic view, survival of the smartest/strivest? (probably isn't a word is it ^_^; )...but good point man, but myself--no confidence in the kids :biggrinki

i would take that a step further and make pe a club period. like tennis club or debate club, something a student can specialize in. in my schools clubs are a lunch time activity and not many people have time for that.
i like that idea...clubs at my old high school were at lunch too, and well there's not enough time to get anything done (45min of lunch), so maybe after school....

i actually disagree, athletics makes the students more appealing to universities and also most athletes with the exception of football players are scholar athletes and consist of the best and the brightest
still iffy on the idea of whether to keep athletics...i do agree that universities do look at the type of stuff--be a well-rounded student, blah blah blah, but they shouldn't...

rep for you! i completely agree, rather than waste time in college, they should gain skills through vocational schools. but that will most likely cause racial issues. dam race sensitive america
thx man, but i kinda feel bad for using the word 'idiot'...should i be more sensitive and say 'academically disabled' or something else along those lines :redbiggri

[Schoulayer]

It would be cool if kids got time off for good grades. For instance, if somebody got an A or a B on the weekly test they would merely have to pickup the material they're expected to learn from the teacher. After that they could go home. The week would be theirs to do as they choose. And as long as they get an A or B on the material they were supposed to learn they could continue to do so.

However, the student could choose to come to school whenever they wanted if they feel they need help with something.

If they got a C, they would be forced to attend three days per week.

If they got a D or F they would have to attend the full week.

As far as I'm concerned as long as the students learn the material they should not have to suffer through hours of review. I remember the worst part of highschool for me was when a math problem would click and the teacher would spend the next 30 minutes explaining it to somebody else who doesn't understand. It felt like a complete waste of my time.

*edit post* -- I agree wholeheartedly with no sports. Schools should stick to reading, science, writing, arithmatic, and social studies. If you add up lunch (30 Minutes), P.E. (60 Minutes), Recess (30 Minutes), and Homeroom (60 Minutes), you get 3 hours of time better spent free. Lunch would not be required if they trimmed the school day down - you would eat at home.

[Jedimuse]

Over here, the schools have a system called "interlocking". Basically the middle schoolers take classes in the morning then the high schoolers take classes in the afternoon. All extracurriculars were held after school. The main prob with the system is that the students have become a bunch of lazy *****es. Every year the academic standard is being lower, it is even begginning to affect the university standards. Damn them.

I attended school on a military base, and things weren't that different. Actually they were worse. The teachers had no power over their students. If a student acted out or skipped class, before the teacher could do anything the kid complained to their parent who then contacted their superior and the teacher would sometime be reprimanded just cuz the kid's parent out ranked them. Actually all the teacher were civilians, so they always out ranked. So the kids decided to do whatever the f*** they wanted. In conclusion the student body was a bunch of slackers, potheads and sluts. What a nice nuturing environment don't think.

[Zero]

i agree that a large percentage of students in america are lacking in academics, but you have too much confidence in their character if you think giving them money rather than the schools would fix it...

Agreed. If students get paid to go to schoo. What's the use of school? So you can get a paying job. Paying students voids this


if left up to the students, school wouldn't be school anymore...any good school will be filled up with the rich kids/smart kids, whose parents would press them to go on to college, the whole success pressure thing...all other schools would be more about socializing...the concept of education and school would be lost on them...

My school is pretty much like this, and it's going good. The average is about 81%


but i do agree that there should be standardization of the system, and a raising of standards...there shouldn't be social promotion, kids should be held back in grades if they don't deserve to go on...

O_O, people actually pass if they don't deserve to in USA?


teachers should be held to a stricter standard, some want to be the cool adults. i've had a few teachers in highschool that would just sit around--pretty much the entire day, and give tests throughout the semester randomly...no teaching, unless you actually came up to them with a question, and even then it's a gamble if they can answer your question or not...

No comment to this... Teachers should be fired if that's how they teach.

first thing i would do is eliminate physical eduation in highschool, it's a waste of time *period*, if kids are worried about their health they should do it on their own time...also, college level courses, the general education requirements, should be offered in some highschools so the overachievers can get those creds over it and not have to spend thousands of dollars on asinine crap in college...like criticial thinking courses, the speech courses...

What's wrong with physical education? A healthy mind, is a healthy body. Also in my school, that's the course that used for sex ed, and anything that relates to the body and such, like proper eating habits, anorexia, obesity, depression. And stuff like that. It's a great course, for the modern teenager.

All of this is offered in my school, it's just that you have to have over a certain percent for some of these things, I think it's 90, or 95%.

middle school should be up to 9th grade, then highschool 3, optional 4 if they want to get some college creds out of the way...it all should be intense, nothing laidback...

I'd say it's pretty hard already... :sad: And here you can take specialize courses for a job if you like. After passing a certain grade. Like you can start a course to become a plumber/fireman/Policeman, or something after grade 10/11


then also eliminate all school sports activities in highschool, there's no point to them, it just eats up funds; it' s a distraction, a general waste...sports activites like wrestling and football and the such should be left up to the city parks and recreation, or local clubs, they can set up teams outside of highschools if they really want to have sports competition--that way it might encourage better community bonds, or whatever...but academic extracurricular activies, the acadec teams, the speech teams, etc, the honor clubs--keep, divert some of the funds/resources from the eliminated sports programs there...i mean it's sad to see that the smart kids have to do carwashes and shit, while the jocks get it easy...

o_o, it seems like you want to turn school into hell or something... Sports teams, etc... Are funded by the students here. What do you mean the jocks get it easy? Most schools, for you to enter a team you need a 70% average.. And my school, you need all your teachers to sign a form permitting you to join a team. It's a real pain sometimes, especially when your English teacher has it out for you.

build more schools, reduce class sizes, give more and better incentives to becoming a teacher--those who major in becoming a teacher, and teach for at least 7-8 years (or maybe a nice round 10 years), get a free college education

That would be a great idea, if we could find the money for that somewhere. Here lots of schools are closing down because they don't have the fundind.
I didn't know you could major in becoming a teacher, so I'll just keep my mouth shut about the other half of your post.

and then let's face it, some people are born idiots, they won't ever understand concepts, their memory won't ever retain the basics, etc...and college is a pipe dream and a waste of money for them...that's why i think there should be an option to go to a vocational school or highschool, rather than everyone goes to highschool and then if you **** up you have to spend another 3 or so years going to community college or vocational school...

Do you truly think that? What is an idiot? I can see things in math very simply, but my friend can't. On the contrary, she pwnz me at writing poems, She can understand and appreciate the depth of rich english literature. That make me just go. -> :eek13:

For me, I can The only people that are like that are the mentally handicapped, and they do get their own school. Don't they?

then have rewards for good students, there's a program at a nearby school district where they give video games for xbox, ps2, gc, etc; gift certificates to cafes, fastfood joints, blockbuster, etc,...and the list goes on, and they've seen an upward rise in scores and gpas...but then there's an added problem of promoting materialism, but it's worth it if kids get smarter, right?

My school does that for people in the honor roll. And I'm guessing it's worth it, my school has a sort of English/Science/Math Competition at the end of every term. The winner gets 500$, runner up 200$. And some complimentary items for the subjects

in the end i'm not saying throw more money at schools, and definitely not saying to give them to the students or parents...but there should definitely be a reevaluation of the school system in america...start doing studies of countries with highest scores, what's the social and cultural differences between us and them, that let's them excel; the difference in teaching methods/ curriculums/ money spent on programs, etc...

That might work.. Great idea IMO.

**sorry for the long post ^_^;
Don't mind yourself, it gives me something to respond too. :biggrinki

[narratorxx]

First off, Jedimuse: Damn that sucks

O_O, people actually pass if they don't deserve to in USA?
sadly yeah, it's been in practice for several decades...at least in CA...but in recent years, like in the last 3 or so, they've cracked down on teachers/districts who do this...one of the arguments for social promotion, is well, to save the kids feelings...one kid is held back and the rest of his classmates pass onto the next grade...he's lost all his friends, and has to make new ones...blah, blah, blah...it can be traumatic...blah blah blah...(that is for elementary school btw)

What's wrong with physical education? A healthy mind, is a healthy body. Also in my school, that's the course that used for sex ed, and anything that relates to the body and such, like proper eating habits, anorexia, obesity, depression. And stuff like that. It's a great course, for the modern teenager.

All of this is offered in my school, it's just that you have to have over a certain percent for some of these things, I think it's 90, or 95%.
i do agree that a healthy mind, is a healthy body...or vice versa...but it should be the concern of the student, or the parents, not that of the school...sex ed should definitely be taught, but good sex ed...alot of schools in the US have a 'abstinence only' teaching policy--which is reckless and irresponsible, kids don't learn anything about protection or what can happen...just names of diseases, AIDS/HIV, and babies--all pretty much scare tactics for a country who still thinks its a puritan...our sex ed, in my school district at least, didn't go into anything like eating habits, anorexia, etc...but, i do agree: having a well-developed sex ed/health class is a great course for the modern teenager...

I'd say it's pretty hard already... And here you can take specialize courses for a job if you like. After passing a certain grade. Like you can start a course to become a plumber/fireman/Policeman, or something after grade 10/11
alright, maybe not intense, but it shouldn't be so laidback either...whatever is necessary to keep a kid outta trouble and on the right track...i like that wherever you're from (where are you from btw) you guys can do that...it's really practical

o_o, it seems like you want to turn school into hell or something... Sports teams, etc... Are funded by the students here. What do you mean the jocks get it easy? Most schools, for you to enter a team you need a 70% average.. And my school, you need all your teachers to sign a form permitting you to join a team. It's a real pain sometimes, especially when your English teacher has it out for you.
here, it's a bit different...schools fund the extracurricular stuff, then whatever extra you need, you do fundraising...but at my school, as well as some others (i can't speak for the entire USA :redbiggri ), sports teams are allotted more money than the academic teams...here you need a 70% average too, but there's alot of politics involved, like your English teacher, there's favoritism and (what's the opposite of favortism, where they're out to get ya?) (some more of that social promotion, lots of undeserved second chances, etc)...what i meant by the jocks having it easy is that they get more money, and so then having to do less fundraising than the academic teams...

I didn't know you could major in becoming a teacher, so I'll just keep my mouth shut about the other half of your post.
well there isn't an actual major where you just sign up for "teacher"...in CA, you need a B.A. or B.S. (which could be in math, history, english, biology, etc), then you need teaching creditional...but for the most part, most people who want to become teachers here, major in Liberal Studies--so it's basically like a teaching major...it's a matter semantics...but i'm gonna call it a teaching major ^_^;

Do you truly think that? What is an idiot? I can see things in math very simply, but my friend can't. On the contrary, she pwnz me at writing poems, She can understand and appreciate the depth of rich english literature. That make me just go. ->

For me, I can The only people that are like that are the mentally handicapped, and they do get their own school. Don't they?
i didn't really mean the 'idiot' comment...made a bad joke...and as for artisits, like your friend, i wouldn't bundle her in the group that i'm talking about...i was talking about thugs/hoods/gangstas/vagrants/whatever you wanna call 'em who go to school because if they didn't, they'd end up in juvie or get their parents fined (or whatever the penalty is, i heard that the parents of kids with excessive absences get a night in jail...some local town is doing that)...growing up, i've seen/met a bunch of kids, where i thought, what's the point of them coming to school...they don't listen, don't do the assignments, don't ask questions, don't ask for help, when they get called on to answer a question, the answer is 'i don't know' or silence...and i'm sure it's their own way of calling out for help and whatever...
but what i'm saying is that they shouldn't have to go if they can't hack it. they shouldn't have to waste 4 years of highschool to find out, even more definitely: they won't be going to college...i mean that's gotta be more damaging to their future, if you've taken away 4 years or so of their lives, by basically imprisoning them (have to go to school or face the consequences)...

as for the mentally handicapped, or whatever the pc term is, they go to school with us, but they get their own teachers, own teaching assistants, bathrooms, own bus...which is fine and dandy, but where will they be going with this? is college life real? is it all practical? i'm not making a judement here, but i guess in a way i am; if they wanna go to school, they can go, i'm not gonna stop them...but what's the point, really?

i probably sound really insensitive, or a hard ass now, don't i?

...ah well, it's how i feel/believe...at least for now...none of how i feel is written in stone :biggrinki

**oh gawd, it's another long post :shithappe :eek:

[Zero]

sadly yeah, it's been in practice for several decades...at least in CA...but in recent years, like in the last 3 or so, they've cracked down on teachers/districts who do this...one of the arguments for social promotion, is well, to save the kids feelings...one kid is held back and the rest of his classmates pass onto the next grade...he's lost all his friends, and has to make new ones...blah, blah, blah...it can be traumatic...blah blah blah...(that is for elementary school btw)


Oh okay, I understand what you mean now. We do that here too, but it's more like a deal. The teacher recommends that the kid stays in the grade for another year. The parents can choose for the kids to go to the next year. But he has to have a 70+% average in the first term. After the first term they are more leniant, but if the percentage drops below 65% they are extremly strict about it.



i do agree that a healthy mind, is a healthy body...or vice versa...but it should be the concern of the student, or the parents, not that of the school...sex ed should definitely be taught, but good sex ed...alot of schools in the US have a 'abstinence only' teaching policy--which is reckless and irresponsible, kids don't learn anything about protection or what can happen...just names of diseases, AIDS/HIV, and babies--all pretty much scare tactics for a country who still thinks its a puritan...our sex ed, in my school district at least, didn't go into anything like eating habits, anorexia, etc...but, i do agree: having a well-developed sex ed/health class is a great course for the modern teenager...

Blah, I always loved Phy. Ed. It was a great way to releive the stresses of school through sports, and let go of my competitive natures. I'm surprised that all school's don't do this. It should be teached... Even though it's common knowledge, some people really need to be told, " It's not healthy to look like a toothpick" etc..




alright, maybe not intense, but it shouldn't be so laidback either...whatever is necessary to keep a kid outta trouble and on the right track...i like that wherever you're from (where are you from btw) you guys can do that...it's really practical

I'm from Canada Quebec, we have an education system of France, influenced by Canada. Our schools go like this Primary/Elementary(Kindergarden+ grade 1-6) ---> High school/Secondary (Grade 7-11). Now here you can choose to go to college or take a specialization course(Electrician, Mechanic, Fireman etc.) that usually takes 2 years, some careers you need to have your High school Diploma, some just your grade 10 year. Your other choice is to go to college for 2 years. After college you can go to University for x amount of years depending on what job you want.




here, it's a bit different...schools fund the extracurricular stuff, then whatever extra you need, you do fundraising...but at my school, as well as some others (i can't speak for the entire USA ), sports teams are allotted more money than the academic teams...here you need a 70% average too, but there's alot of politics involved, like your English teacher, there's favoritism and (what's the opposite of favortism, where they're out to get ya?) (some more of that social promotion, lots of undeserved second chances, etc)...

what i meant by the jocks having it easy is that they get more money, and so then having to do less fundraising than the academic teams...

Sadly I don't know how much money my school spends on school teams and such. So I can't add anything. And for the antonym of 'favoritism', check out this site: http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?r=2&q=favoritism

Okay, I have a better understanding of what you meant now. I guess that would be quite unfair.


well there isn't an actual major where you just sign up for "teacher"...in CA, you need a B.A. or B.S. (which could be in math, history, english, biology, etc), then you need teaching creditional...but for the most part, most people who want to become teachers here, major in Liberal Studies--so it's basically like a teaching major...it's a matter semantics...but i'm gonna call it a teaching major ^_^;

Oh okay, I was pretty sure that there wasn't a 'teaching major'. Here you just need to have 1 level higher diploma, perse, to teach. Example, to teach a high school student, you need a Bachelors. To teach people trying to get their Bachelors, you need a masters. ETC.


i didn't really mean the 'idiot' comment...made a bad joke...and as for artisits, like your friend, i wouldn't bundle her in the group that i'm talking about...i was talking about thugs/hoods/gangstas/vagrants/whatever you wanna call 'em who go to school because if they didn't, they'd end up in juvie or get their parents fined (or whatever the penalty is, i heard that the parents of kids with excessive absences get a night in jail...some local town is doing that)...growing up, i've seen/met a bunch of kids, where i thought, what's the point of them coming to school...they don't listen, don't do the assignments, don't ask questions, don't ask for help, when they get called on to answer a question, the answer is 'i don't know' or silence...and i'm sure it's their own way of calling out for help and whatever...

Again I understand what you're saying better... (It looks I have to read your post a couple more times to understand... See I really do suck at english :sad: ) Those kids should go see stundent's aid/ psychologist.. Or something. That might help them/get them motivated to do school. I remember we had a whole week dedicated to the importance/unimportance of school some year back. I still remember some of the stuff they had today..


but what i'm saying is that they shouldn't have to go if they can't hack it. they shouldn't have to waste 4 years of highschool to find out, even more definitely: they won't be going to college...i mean that's gotta be more damaging to their future, if you've taken away 4 years or so of their lives, by basically imprisoning them (have to go to school or face the consequences)...

Yes, I agree that does suck... Instead of going to school, they could have found a job they could cope with. and having about ~10$/h with health insurance and whatnot. Albeit, it isn't alot, but it's better then wasting 4 years and when you start working you get paid minimum. There is a chance that they might get a good job, and land a ~14$/h job.

What's funny about school is, even if you do get to college/university, and you're a certified [Your occupation here] you still might not find a job and have to settle for one of those ~14/h job. But luckily you'll have a high-school diploma atleast. But that means you'll still have to pay your student fee's, with a lower paying job then expected.


as for the mentally handicapped, or whatever the pc term is, they go to school with us, but they get their own teachers, own teaching assistants, bathrooms, own bus...which is fine and dandy, but where will they be going with this? is college life real? is it all practical? i'm not making a judement here, but i guess in a way i am; if they wanna go to school, they can go, i'm not gonna stop them...but what's the point, really?

I don't know... I've never really heard of a job for those types of people. But I guess they can manage to do it.. They'll just have to work twice or thrice as hard.

I probably sound really insensitive, or a hard ass now, don't i?

...ah well, it's how i feel/believe...at least for now...none of how i feel is written in stone
**oh gawd, it's another long post :shithappe

You don't give off an image as insensitive or a hard-ass to me. So don't worry. To each his own, we all have our own opinions so there's no use trying to change someone else's.

And your long postes are fine. Like I said, It gives me something to reply to and actually makes me think a little. :biggrinki


EDIT: lol, this page is longer then most pages, with only 3 message. We do write alot, don't we? :LOL:

[narratorxx]

lol, we sure do


**omg look it's a short post :LOL:

[Zero]

:LOL: Yeah, I wasn't up to spending 10-20 minuts on another post. :P
It's 12:30 here, and I'm pretty tired... -yawn-

[Jedimuse]

dude it's 12:36 here too, u problably live near the caribbean?

[Zero]

I'm living aprox. the same place longitudely..

Think a little more north. ;)

[Jedimuse]

let me guess florida?

[Zero]

Nice guess, try Canada. xD

[Jedimuse]

canada, that's a little more north. i think u need to work on the definition of little.

[Zero]

If we compare it to... Say, the distance from the sun and earth. It is a little. ;)

[Jedimuse]

let me guess, it's all relative huh. well compare to sun-earth distance u got a point, but normally who compares to this distance. Imagine saying the next town is 0.0000000000015 x 10^-9 sun-earth distance.

[Zero]

10^-9?

And, I just have the conception that everything is smaller then what most people think.

[Jedimuse]

my point exactly: 10^-9 is too small to be seen

[Zero]

I don't understand your point. :\

[Jedimuse]

the point is that u think things are smaller than they are, like comparing the sun-earth distance to something that is 10^-9 m in size (the # just means it's small).

[ramenkage]

what does all this have to do with schooling
and time zone is determined by latitude not longitude

[Jedimuse]

what does all this have to do with schooling
and time zone is determined by latitude not longitude
dude the longitude determines the time zone, u know the vertical lines on the globe.

[ramenkage]

woah longitude are the vertical lines?!

[Jedimuse]

yep, u see this is academic, sort of.

[Kibou]

Okay even though I haven't paid attention to the previous 3 pages...


i propose that we correct this by standardizing the system, raising the standards, and giving students rather than schools money, thus ending the public school system. Students schould be able to choose which schools they wish to attend and schools should be about to choose which students they want to admit

Raising standards will only gear schools to pass them...what's the benefit of learning then? In AZ, we have schools that are only geared for AIMS--which is the ghetto stupid waste of time standardized test and takes away from the learning atmosphere. Noodle, what you're thinking of is like a voucher system, and that just won't work, it makes schools publically private =\. In theory it sounds cool, but in motion it sucks.

[ramenkage]

standardize school doesnt mean standardized test, though standardize test would help, but not the stupid ones like the sat.
classes should be all the same across america. even within the same schools, there is a spectrum of difficulty. some teachers are harder than others. that leads so easy a's

can you explain why the voucher system doesnt work?

[Jedimuse]

that leads so easy a's

so are we the slacker type?

Even though it would be good to have a standard for material class, standardize test are almost useless. they don't really test the student's academic abilities well. Most of the time all u need is logic, not knowledge.

[ramenkage]

so are we the slacker type?

Even though it would be good to have a standard for material class, standardize test are almost useless. they don't really test the student's academic abilities well. Most of the time all u need is logic, not knowledge.
you dont really learn any knowlegde in high school...
but standardize test dont neccessarily have to be like the ones given yearly. ever try taking a multiple choice physics test. its not something you can just guess on

[Zero]

Lol, high school, and everything before that is just to fine-tune your social skills/working habits/How you work on a team. et cetera. In College, you do about a year of a highschool curriculum each week.

Oh, and while posting that I came up with another good reason for Phys. Ed, It also further developes your teamwork skills(if that makes sense) and can teach you how to be a better captain.

[ramenkage]

phys ed is a waste of time
replace it with club activities
and instead of afterschool sports, make it club sports so that athletes practce year round

[Jedimuse]

i wish i didn't have to pe when i was in high school. not only did it usually mess up the schedule, we didn't learn anything. we spend more time changing than exercising. totally wasteful.

as far as the clubs instead of pe idea, it could be tricky setting up the schedules so every could attend club meetings. not everyone had pe at the same time

[ramenkage]

we have 8 periods (0-7)
dedicate 7th period to club activities
im sure they can work it out somehow

[Jedimuse]

i guess in your school it might work, but in my old school they had block schedule where the periods were mixed in some weird order. never understood it well, whatever. well the point is that the periods kept changing depending on the day and stuff.

[Zero]

I don't know what they teach you in other schools, but PE is a great course...

Physical(as in, bodily) Education teaches things that all people should know.. Especially teenagers in high school.

My highschool, used it to teach kids about drugs, anorexia, obesity, proper eating habits, sex etc. etc. Of course there were some sports on the site, but what's wrong with that?

[Jedimuse]

well in my school that was health class which was super cool. we even learn cpr and stuff.

but in pe we just ran laps and "played" basketball and stuff

[narratorxx]

not only did it usually mess up the schedule, we didn't learn anything. we spend more time changing than exercising. totally wasteful.
lol, yeah seriously

My highschool, used it to teach kids about drugs, anorexia, obesity, proper eating habits, sex etc. etc.
for my school, like jedimuse, that stuff was for the health/sex ed class...and even then it wasn't that extensive, it was primarily scare tactics...no pursuit of understanding...

Of course there were some sports on the site, but what's wrong with that?
nothing wrong with some sports, but it shouldn't have to be part of your day. for me it was just a hindrance...like if you had pe in the morning, you'll smell the rest of the day--no showers...if you're lucky it'll be something light, and you can just put on some more deodorant/or put on some cologne...then it was a gamble if your stuff was still in your locker after class (i went to a really ghetto school, fights/gang-related fights like once a week at the least)...as a freshman, i did it for the first semester, and then opted outta of pe by joining the sports team instead (football one year/season, then jrotc another)--required 2 years of pe...1 hr long class, 10 min of changing into, then 10 min for changing out of...1/2 hr of bullshit...big waste...

but in pe we just ran laps and "played" basketball and stuff
same here
big emphasis on "played"

[Zero]

We don't have Health Classes here... >.>

On Topic: What classes did/do you have/had in highschool?

Me:

Science- your basic science course..
Math- your basic math course
English - your basic english course
French - your basic french course
History - your basic history course
Geography - your basic geography course

EDIT: All of these subjects came with their "advance" counterpart, for those smart individuals with 90% and up. You arn't forced to take the advance course, but usually if the school offers you a chance.. Your parents will pressure you into it.

Phys. Ed - your basic PE course
Art: You had a choice between, music, art, and drama.

Aids course, I don't know what it's called in english, but it helped you with many things.. Studying techniques, Memorization technique, Communication skills(how to do an oral presentation/speech), Writing skills(writing essays, stories, etc.), preparing for Exams, preparing a project, lateral thinking.... My favorite course, not only because my teacher rocked, but it gives you somethings that'll help you throughout life. (Optional course)

Tech: We did computer stuff, looked at machine mechanics, lots of fun stuff (Optional course)

Economie Familiale (I don't know the name in english): But you basicly cooked stuff.. Lots of fun here. (optional course)

Moral/religion: Now this is a useless course.... I've never liked it.

[=~brAnDoN-kAorU~=]

Moral is a useless course in my country. All I need to do is just anyhow do the paper and practise a little bit of hypocrisy, and I'll will get full marks for the exam testing on morals. On the outside, nobody will practise such moral values even if they had an A for it~~=P

[Orihemi]

I'm in a "school that works" ANd it's really fun here. THe other students, especially those in the lower classes say that it's really hard. But it's not. Of course most of them have bearly had to work a day in their life. It's sad really. But hey with those attituetes they'll never ger any where. With bush putting in the no child left behind act, you'd think the world had come to an end. I never really had a problem with it, except that it included the kids who are mentally challeged. It's not fair to them. By the way if you ever met an american don't get mad at them, we hate our president as much as you do.
At my school we are fortunate enough to have people from other countries to come to our school. They to us that our school is a little hard at times, but meanly easy. I'm always ashamed to hear this.

[Daft Punk]

I don't know what they teach you in other schools, but PE is a great course...
Physical(as in, bodily) Education teaches things that all people should know.. Especially teenagers in high school.
My highschool, used it to teach kids about drugs, anorexia, obesity, proper eating habits, sex etc. etc. Of course there were some sports on the site, but what's wrong with that?

Sports in PE? Your so lucky T.T. Our health class handles drugs, sex ect. In PE we run. Then we run some more. Then a bit more. Then some more. We have to run intervals. 30 minutes of non-stop running, followed by 1 minute 30 seconds of walking. For 1 hour 30 minutes. Everyday of the week. I hate PE so much. Sooooooooooooooooo much. You can not possibly fathom the hatred I have for it. I wish I had a
machine, that could turn it into a palpable object, capable of feeling pain, then i'd burn it alive, pour acid on it, and then pour salt on the acid/fire burns.

About classes: Freshman Classes
Math - Algebra 1 Adv.
Science - Biology (Honors Class)
Reading - Lit Honors
Social Studies - World History Honors

[Rhea]

The American k-12 education system is inferior to many foreign systems. The students are behind and the standards, if any are incredibly low. A high school dipolma is worth as much as toilet paper. i propose that we correct this by standardizing the system, raising the standards, and giving students rather than schools money, thus ending the public school system. Students schould be able to choose which schools they wish to attend and schools should be about to choose which students they want to admit.

The whole system needs a major overhaul. Aren't the majority of the tests there multi choice? Ramenkage, that maybe one of the reasons why a highschool diploma is not that desireable. I can't speak for anywhere else, but I know in Ireland we are commended by having one of the best educational systems in the world, next to Japan. In Ireland the system is quite strict you sit two State exams, one in 3rd year (your 9th grade) and one in 6th year (your 12th grade). Both you are examined in each subject separately (like the SAT's) yet none of them are multichoice. You don't get the option of an answer, you either know it or you don't. Thta being said there are 3 versions of the Leaving Cert geared at different interests. You have the choice of taking the leaving cert which is the main one most people take that it is very academic and quite hard. You also have the LC vocational, which is for those who are more interested in voactional skills like carpentary etc and the LC applied it focuses more on other abilities of the student preparing them for adult working life.


Yes a highschool diploma may seem useless but that is the same in nearly every country and is not unique to the States. You need to go on to higher level. Society is becoming increasingly meritocratic.

A lot of the problem in American schools is funding, you are correct in assuming that. Public schools need more money concentrated in them to make for a better school enviromnment. However, this does not mean giving it to the students. This means the government inspecting the schooll and brining it up to a higher standard.

On a side note, P.E despite you not thinking so is essential in schools. It promotes exercise and while you may not think it to be academic it is still an essential part of your learning, especially wiht the rising levels of obesity.

[Habanero]

I think it's a bit weird for U.S to score so lowly on international tests of education level. The leading world power with thriving scientific research scoring almost lowest among the OECD countries seems an impossible equation.

I don't really know much about american schools, but there's gotta be something wrong with the mentality towards education in american youth I'd say. There are obviously a lot of bright kids who study hard to achieve their goals, hence the great scientific research. But how does the majority feel about education in general? Do they feel that it's good to have some general knowledge even if they won't ever make it to some upper academic degree?

I'm proud to say, that here in Finland the school system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Finland) has very high standards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PISA#Results) (Sorry for bragging :p) and people in general like to know about things going on in the world.

Anyway... This is an interesting subject and I hope ya'll keep on writing!

[Orihemi]

Well, they used to teach us pretty well. But as teens we're kind of forgotten. Some of the people in the older generation thing that we don't matter at all. That we just excist. There hasn't been any major world events to kick this country in rere, to start teaching the leaders to teach us properly. But that's no excuse, the should know better and stop careing how rich they are.

[Tyekanik]

I don't really know much about american schools, but there's gotta be something wrong with the mentality towards education in american youth I'd say. There are obviously a lot of bright kids who study hard to achieve their goals, hence the great scientific research. But how does the majority feel about education in general? Do they feel that it's good to have some general knowledge even if they won't ever make it to some upper academic degree?

I'll give you my small town rundown on the public education system.

I was told to go to school because I had to. Later I was told I'd need the stuff I'm learning later. A little after that I got to use hindsight on highschool in particular. maybe 90 - 95% our jocks who had awesome grades in class (you know the guys people think that they don't deserve the grades but get them because they are on the team) end up coming back after flunking college like it was a bad joke. The teachers really did not help them out at all.

Elementary School - You have to

Middle School - You'll use it one day

High School - It is ALL (this is how it's put here) who your daddy is, athletic skills or how much you can kiss ass. Really - high school is the biggest break down point in the system. Mainly because it introduces the influences of society more so than lower grades. Also, how much of this matters in college? well, I did mention how many returners we had in our town.

What did my schools never ever teach me? Morality. Justice. Life. WORK ETHIC - Responsiblity (other than oh you didn't do you homework again how cute - and still got an A). We are taught to cover our asses, not to help someone else out.

I'm no better, I never did a term paper in Economics/Government. Still got a B - and those were 20% of the grade. Having the smarts and knowing how to use them are two different things. We aren't dumb, just stupid :p

American schools are so stressed about not getting sued they - in a way can't do anything at all. It's all about stopping that violent school shooting that happens less often than people get their lives ruined by apathy as opposed to getting freaking grades up.

I say it isn't even the school system but the sickness spreading from society as a whole. What can a teacher do? Even showing interest in getting a student on the right track could ruin their career. This kind of thing is brimming at the back of peoples minds. It happened in my school, teacher tried to talk to girl after class, bam - rumors spreading about him trying to sleep with her for in exchange for an A. I mean rumormongering too, not reporting it to the right people. A female p.e. teacher was ruined just because she was a lesbian and had to break up a fight in the girls locker room (to her credit she had never gone in there previously while anyone was in there, she waited til they were all out). You can imagine the accusations there.

The best, lasting teachers, sadly were the ones who knew not to get too involved. Don't try to help people too much, cover your ass.

In order to improve the education system first they need to stop impeding the people who are actually trying to help it, rather than slap them down for utterly ridiculous reasons.

[Rhea]

Unfortunately yes the divide between rich and poor is very visible in the US with public schools recieving very poor funding from the government. However, I don't think it's necessarily that the youth are being cast aside, in fact I think the educational system is just quite poor in relation to other countries. That is not to say that the US has not produced some of the world's finest academics.

[Habanero]

maybe 90 - 95% our jocks who had awesome grades in class (you know the guys people think that they don't deserve the grades but get them because they are on the team) end up coming back after flunking college like it was a bad joke. The teachers really did not help them out at all.

High School - It is ALL (this is how it's put here) who your daddy is, athletic skills or how much you can kiss ass. Really - high school is the biggest break down point in the system. Mainly because it introduces the influences of society more so than lower grades. Also, how much of this matters in college? well, I did mention how many returners we had in our town.

To be honest, that sounds just crazy...

The sports teams we have (I used to play soccer for 7 years) don't have any relation to schools really. If you're good in sports, the only thing it'll have a positive effect on in school is the grade you get from school sports. Nothing else.

Plus, we don't have any kind of sport scholarships or stuff like that... Sports won't get you into any school. Almost every school is basically free, so it's only your grades that count when applying for one.

What did my schools never ever teach me? Morality. Justice. Life. WORK ETHIC - Responsiblity (other than oh you didn't do you homework again how cute - and still got an A). We are taught to cover our asses, not to help someone else out.

I'm no better, I never did a term paper in Economics/Government. Still got a B - and those were 20% of the grade. Having the smarts and knowing how to use them are two different things. We aren't dumb, just stupid :p

Our grades are given according to how well we do in the test in the end of courses, so we can't really cheat.

American schools are so stressed about not getting sued they - in a way can't do anything at all. It's all about stopping that violent school shooting that happens less often than people get their lives ruined by apathy as opposed to getting freaking grades up.
I say it isn't even the school system but the sickness spreading from society as a whole. What can a teacher do? Even showing interest in getting a student on the right track could ruin their career. This kind of thing is brimming at the back of peoples minds. It happened in my school, teacher tried to talk to girl after class, bam - rumors spreading about him trying to sleep with her for in exchange for an A. I mean rumormongering too, not reporting it to the right people. A female p.e. teacher was ruined just because she was a lesbian and had to break up a fight in the girls locker room (to her credit she had never gone in there previously while anyone was in there, she waited til they were all out). You can imagine the accusations there.
The best, lasting teachers, sadly were the ones who knew not to get too involved. Don't try to help people too much, cover your ass.
In order to improve the education system first they need to stop impeding the people who are actually trying to help it, rather than slap them down for utterly ridiculous reasons.

That sucks. Really. The problem seems to associate more with the rules of society rather than anything directly school related. That's just messed up. :(

[Rhea]

The sports teams we have (I used to play soccer for 7 years) don't have any relation to schools really. If you're good in sports, the only thing it'll have a positive effect on in school is the grade you get from school sports. Nothing else.

Plus, we don't have any kind of sport scholarships or stuff like that... Sports won't get you into any school. Almost every school is basically free, so it's only your grades that count when applying for one.

Really? See I think this is something that is common ground in most Western countries. The sports players, the ones that represent the school in competitions. If you excell in sports you will be offered a scholarship to college, however, academic requiremnet still remains a clause for that scholarship. As far as I know In the US especially witht the WASP dominated Universities ie the Ivy Leagues yes, certain aspects of your social status come into play.

[Habanero]

We don't really have school leagues like you do. If you're into sports you'll be playing in the team of your home town/city and practice it in your freetime. There are only some occasional sports competitions with other schools, which are through in couple of days at most, and won't really interefere with your studies in any way.

[Rhea]

Well like I was saying in Ireland your academic ability comes first. Based on difficulty levels and popularity of courses you have to get a certain amount of points out of 600. Like for example, medicine is 570 points out of 600, and psychology being 540/600. So academic prowess takes precedence. If you are lucky enough to have gotten the points for your desired course as well as being extremely good at sports you will be offered based on your results the scholarship for sports. However, there are many scholarships offered in this country and many subsidies allowed. Like for example farmers children can apply for a grant as well as people recieve schoarships for academic excellence. We are commended for our education system as a result of its diversity and fairness. Like I said before there are alternative versions of the main state exam that can be sat accomodating your needs/interests, but I digress.

I think the US really needs to focus on it's funding of it's schools and access to University. The Ivy League's are far to elitist and need to allow more access. On another note I think that the abolition of multiple choice in main school exams is advisory. It calls for a greater level of understanding of the subject by the student. That and it will better prepare people for the challenges that lie ahead in University.

[Demilich1988]

The system in America does need to improve but at the same time it isn't as bad as it seems. in a way Other nations cheat in their system. In America no matter what is wrong with someone they still get schooling for free. No matter how much of a trouble making is they can't be thrown out of our system. Plus as a son of a teacher and a friend of a good many teachers I can tell you if i was a teacher i wouldn't want to teach my students anything.

[Shinomori]

...I can speak as someone who can tell you, first-hand, that the American educational system is flawed and shitty.

Why?

No Child Left Behind.

My school district was a decently poor one. We had trouble passing levies. When we didn't pass one, we ended up having to cut things.

We had to cut several honors teachers and scale back on the number of classes offered.

At that same time, we had to spend OVER a million dollars on special ed. funding because we had a special ed. school that took in special ed. kids from the surrounding districts, and technically counted as a school in our district.

Let's see...what else sucks...oh yeah, teachers teaching for the tests. SAT, ACT, PSAT scores are one thing. Those are designed for a purpose. Teachers don't have to teach for them. However, we have the "OGT" - Ohio Graduation Test. Most of the teachers that I had (I was in all honors/ AP courses) ended up taking one or two weeks out of their schedule to teach the HONORS kids what would be on the test.

Most of it was retarded stuff, like geology and earth science. Stuff that the "regular" kids would know, but the honors kids skipped over that.

Let's put it this way - at the time I was taking that test, I was doing 10th-grade chemistry.

Quite simply, the American system fails because it is designed to make everyone equal. It's a problem that America has these days - we try to bring up the bottom, which is fine, happy, and dandy, but in the process we pull down the top. Whichc is not so good.

[Neko Xab]

Funding, funding, funding. The truth is, schools really do not need more funds, but to manage what funds they possess more effectively. In fact, the U.S. spends more money on each individual student than any other country, and educational funding, between 1965 and 1995, jumped by a massive 212%, even after taking inflation into account. Really, the problem's all in the system.

In fact, did you know that gifted students drop out at the same rate as everyone else? What's more, out of those who graduate at the top 5% of their high school class, 40% don’t even finish college.

With even the best student minds failing with everyone else, the problem doesn’t lie so much with the students. This is obviously an issue of the system itself. One such problem is the lack of effective education tactics. Lesson plans now just don’t grab students’ attention, and traditionally effective teaching tools are also being shunned from the system. Moreover, standardized testing only salts these wounds, because the curriculum then cuts back on essential subjects and shifts focus to “teaching the test ".

Despite the great faults of the system, the students are not without fault. With every new generation, there is a progressively growing disrespect for elders, which leads to students becoming defiant to teachers and resisting their teachings. In higher-performing countries like India, conversely, teachers are very highly revered, so the process of education is a privilege to both students and teachers. Students who do perform well in school and have high IQs, unfortunately, are also often socially alienated. Academic achievements also tend to be overshadowed by athletics, since America tends to revere the athlete but cast aside the genius. It’s sad but true, and as young intellectuals are brought down socially, they also begin to approach the abyss of low achievement, which then feeds the failure rate.

With our astounding mediocrity, it is imperative that further action must be taken to battle mediocrity in U.S. schools. On the Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), a test of 15-year-olds in 2003, American students ranked just about in the middle in literacy skills, way behind students in Finland and a score of other countries including South Korea, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand (Allen). Nevertheless, this is an improvement from reports made back in 1999, where American 12th graders ranked 19th out of 21 industrialized countries in mathematics achievement and 16th out of 21 nations in science while advanced physics students ranked dead last. Still, the standard of education is still way behind that of other countries, and the statistics don’t lie. This considered, one could only imagine the crippling effects it could eventually have on the U.S. economy in this increasingly competitive world. In Louisiana, for example, 72,000 students have dropped out of high school since 2002. As a result, half of Louisiana employers can't find employees with adequate reading skills and 75 percent can't find employees with problem solving skills. Imagine if the situation in Louisiana was the same in all states. It would, of course, be nothing short of a catastrophe.

[cappy3]

Ok first off too long of post to read all of them. But anyway the state i live in is 47th in the US so it sucks to live over here. And second we barely learn about the fun and interesting cultures like Japanese but no we have to learn about Ibo or some weird thing that we will forget the next year. Lucky i am good at math so i helps since i am ahead of the average in math.

captiannemo out

[Shinomori]

Funding, funding, funding. The truth is, schools really do not need more funds, but to manage what funds they possess more effectively. In fact, the U.S. spends more money on each individual student than any other country, and educational funding, between 1965 and 1995, jumped by a massive 212%, even after taking inflation into account. Really, the problem's all in the system.

In fact, did you know that gifted students drop out at the same rate as everyone else? What's more, out of those who graduate at the top 5% of their high school class, 40% don’t even finish college.

With even the best student minds failing with everyone else, the problem doesn’t lie so much with the students. This is obviously an issue of the system itself. One such problem is the lack of effective education tactics. Lesson plans now just don’t grab students’ attention, and traditionally effective teaching tools are also being shunned from the system. Moreover, standardized testing only salts these wounds, because the curriculum then cuts back on essential subjects and shifts focus to “teaching the test ".

Despite the great faults of the system, the students are not without fault. With every new generation, there is a progressively growing disrespect for elders, which leads to students becoming defiant to teachers and resisting their teachings. In higher-performing countries like India, conversely, teachers are very highly revered, so the process of education is a privilege to both students and teachers. Students who do perform well in school and have high IQs, unfortunately, are also often socially alienated. Academic achievements also tend to be overshadowed by athletics, since America tends to revere the athlete but cast aside the genius. It’s sad but true, and as young intellectuals are brought down socially, they also begin to approach the abyss of low achievement, which then feeds the failure rate.

With our astounding mediocrity, it is imperative that further action must be taken to battle mediocrity in U.S. schools. On the Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), a test of 15-year-olds in 2003, American students ranked just about in the middle in literacy skills, way behind students in Finland and a score of other countries including South Korea, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand (Allen). Nevertheless, this is an improvement from reports made back in 1999, where American 12th graders ranked 19th out of 21 industrialized countries in mathematics achievement and 16th out of 21 nations in science while advanced physics students ranked dead last. Still, the standard of education is still way behind that of other countries, and the statistics don’t lie. This considered, one could only imagine the crippling effects it could eventually have on the U.S. economy in this increasingly competitive world. In Louisiana, for example, 72,000 students have dropped out of high school since 2002. As a result, half of Louisiana employers can't find employees with adequate reading skills and 75 percent can't find employees with problem solving skills. Imagine if the situation in Louisiana was the same in all states. It would, of course, be nothing short of a catastrophe.

TL;DR.

See what I've seen, go where I've been, and tell me that funding doesn't "really" matter.

Watch honors classes get cut so the retards can get educated.

Watch the entire honors PROGRAM for anyone that wasn't in high school get cut so that we can teach "special ed" kids how to put their own pants on.

Yeah, so I'm a little biased. I'm one of the people that was hurt by this. These were my classes being cut here.

I'd like to know where YOU went to high school. I, personally, went to a high school that wasn't particularly well-off. We couldn't pass levies because, quite frankly, my city was saturated with old people who just went "We have no income, we can't give you money!"

We, as Americans, spend more on education because we don't just fund education in our schools. How many Indian schools, for example, have fully-fledged sports programs with at least ten different teams?

How many of their schools provide transportation? How many have fully-operational computer labs?

Point two.

If you're going to talk about "oh, honors students don't graduate", I suggest you stop reading the biased statistics and look at the whole picture.

http://www.ed.gov/pubs/CollegeForAll/images/Figure3.gif

The average rate is 53% graduation. Meaning 47% don't graduate.

And that takes into account the honors kids, meaning non-honors are probably around 50%.

The honors kids do better than the rest.

NEXT.

American education suffers because we suffer from a state of perpetual ennui when it comes to education. School is a chore because the state MAKES it a chore. Children are raised from a young age, in this country, with the knowledge that they WILL have the opportunity to go to school every day.

If you wish to compare the US to India, then go right ahead. Here's something you might have glossed over.

In India, there is a TREMENDOUS disparity between classes. You are either educated, or you are nothing. The majority of Indian adults cannot even write.

And it's not getting better. They don't have mandatory public schooling. People go to school because they WANT to go to school.

Imagine what would happen if school was optional in the US. Who would go? I would go. The people who WANTED to go would go. Our averages would skyrocket. We'd be the new India or China when it came to education, with the "geniuses". But why aren't we? Because of the law of averages. People do not judge us by our best. People judge us by our AVERAGE. In our case, the masses of lesser-educated people pull down the average.

American education, as it is, is a mediocre system. What would I do? I'd make school optional.

I know, you're all thinking the same thing - that's horrible, right?

The world does need more farmers...

If people are content to wallow in their own ignorance, let them. Educating them so they can waste the public's money in order to work at McDonalds is not something I care for.

Oh, and by the way, students with high IQs are NOT socially unaccepted. At my school, the smart had more friends than the athletes did. The world changes, amigo, the world changes. Increasingly, people are realizing that the genius flies high, the athlete sells fries. My school, the athletes were practically social outcasts. They had their "clique", pretty much, and kept to themselves. But that doesn't make them "popular".

Popularity is now almost a given. People associate popularity with the varsity athlete. But it's really not true. From what I've seen, the athlete is increasingly UN-popular.

[KholdStare]

In India, there is a TREMENDOUS disparity between classes. You are either educated, or you are nothing. The majority of Indian adults cannot even write.

And it's not getting better. They don't have mandatory public schooling. People go to school because they WANT to go to school.


I would just like to point out that the literacy in India is around 62% which means that the majority of adults can read and write. And it's very different for different states. The state of Kerala has a 90% literacy rate. It is estimated that if India's literacy rate continues to increase, it would reach 95% in 20 years from now.

Kids from age 15-24 have a 76% literacy which means that it is indeed getting better because these same kids will become the adults of the population.

[Sirius]

I've always thought the American public school system is more like a form of brainwashing.

From the time we're in elementary school we stay at school for 7-8 hours a day. Of those 7-8 hours only a few of our classes are core classes... Math, reading, writing, ect...

Much of the rest of the day consists of things that have little other purpose than to waste our time. This is by design, even the core classes could be condensed to take up less far less time. I remember in middle school we used to have a 'home room' hour which was nothing more than sitting around and socializing. Utterly worthless.

The primary focus of public school is not learning, it is conditioning. Public school trains people to work long hours doing things they do not want to do. This gets people used to working long hours in adulthood. Public school also trains people to not question authority.

For those who doubt this to be true - why do students who know the material and can demonstrate they know the material on tests have to do homework and assignments on that material every day?

...because in the American school system you are rewarded for productivity instead of your ability to learn and retain information. Learning comes second in public schools, you are primarily there to be changed into an ultra-productive adult.

In my opinion we can throw as much money as we want at the problem but it will not change the disparity between our public schools and that of other countries until we shift our focus from productivity and obedience back to learning and understanding.

Students learn best when they want to learn and they often do not want to learn when they associate learning with boredom. Making students do assignments on the same material they've already learned over and over takes all of the fun out of learning.

What turns people into 'geniuses'? What makes people like Einstein, Tesla, and Oppenheimer? You could argue they were genetic flukes, which I wouldn't deny could be part of it, but I also think they had a genuine desire to learn. I think the idea of discovering mysteries filled them with excitement and consumed their thoughts. Desire is absolutely key to learning. What you do not want to learn you will not learn very well.

If I were in charge of our school system would be more like a library with tests as learning checkpoints. You would advance through school by studying and learning material and then taking a test on that material to demonstrate you know the material. The primary use of teachers would be to answer questions and help people out when they're struggling with material.

That way students would advance through grades as quickly as they are able to learn as an individual. Some students may finish high school at very young ages while others would remain until they were older.

[Sandal Hat]

* Sandal Hat decides to add some fuel to the fire *

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How Europe fails its young
Sep 8th 2005

The state of Europe's higher education is a long-term threat to its competitiveness

THOSE Europeans who are tempted, in the light of the dismal scenes in New Orleans this fortnight, to downgrade the American challenge should meditate on one word: universities. Five years ago in Lisbon European officials proclaimed their intention to become the world's premier “knowledge economy” by 2010. The thinking behind this grand declaration made sense of a sort: Europe's only chance of preserving its living standards lies in working smarter than its competitors rather than harder or cheaper. But Europe's failing higher-education system poses a lethal threat to this ambition.

Europe created the modern university. Scholars were gathering in Paris and Bologna before America was on the map. Oxford and Cambridge invented the residential university: the idea of a community of scholars living together to pursue higher learning. Germany created the research university. A century ago European universities were a magnet for scholars and a model for academic administrators the world over.

But, as our survey of higher education explains, since the second world war Europe has progressively surrendered its lead in higher education to the United States. America boasts 17 of the world's top 20 universities, according to a widely used global ranking by the Shanghai Jiao Tong University. American universities currently employ 70% of the world's Nobel prize-winners, 30% of the world's output of articles on science and engineering, and 44% of the most frequently cited articles. No wonder developing countries now look to America rather than Europe for a model for higher education.

Why have European universities declined so precipitously in recent decades? And what can be done to restore them to their former glory? The answer to the first question lies in the role of the state. American universities get their funding from a variety of different sources, not just government but also philanthropists, businesses and, of course, the students themselves. European ones are largely state-funded. The constraints on state funding mean that European governments force universities to “process” more and more students without giving them the necessary cash—and respond to the universities' complaints by trying to micromanage them. Inevitably, quality has eroded. Yet, as the American model shows, people are prepared to pay for good higher education, because they know they will benefit from it: that's why America spends twice as much of its GDP on higher education as Europe does.

The answer to the second question is to set universities free from the state. Free universities to run their internal affairs: how can French universities, for example, compete for talent with their American rivals when professors are civil servants? And free them to charge fees for their services—including, most importantly, student fees.

Asia's learning

The standard European retort is that if people have to pay for higher education, it will become the monopoly of the rich. But spending on higher education in Europe is highly regressive (more middle-class students go to university than working-class ones). And higher education is hardly a monopoly of the rich in America: a third of undergraduates come from racial minorities, and about a quarter come from families with incomes below the poverty line. The government certainly has a responsibility to help students to borrow against their future incomes. But student fees offer the best chance of pumping more resources into higher education. They also offer the best chance of combining equity with excellence.

Europe still boasts some of the world's best universities, and there are some signs that policymakers have realised that their system is failing. Britain, the pacemaker in university reform in Europe, is raising fees. The Germans are trying to create a Teutonic Ivy League. European universities are aggressively wooing foreign students. Pan-European plans are encouraging student mobility and forcing the more eccentric European countries (notably Germany) to reform their degree structures. But the reforms have been too tentative.

America is not the only competition Europe faces in the knowledge economy. Emerging countries have cottoned on to the idea of working smarter as well as harder. Singapore is determined to turn itself into a “knowledge island”. India is sprucing up its institutes of technology. In the past decade China has doubled the size of its student population while pouring vast resources into elite universities. Forget about catching up with America; unless Europeans reform their universities, they will soon be left in the dust by Asia as well.


http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?story_id=4370590

[peacmaker]

I think it high time we go back to drawing board on our education system, which is a miss. I was reading the paper where many youth in Texas are not really for college, because they don't have the skills like math, reading, and writing.